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Mark Driscoll: A Continuing Saga in the Emergent Church Movement!

D
deltadom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Driscoll[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Driscoll]Mark Driscoll[/url]

Sometimes as a christian , we tend to go for movements and such as the Purpose Driven Life Movement or say the Emergent Church but do not realize that these movements change all the time!

I have been working through all the stock at our local christian bookshop and realizing how much the emergent church movement has changed!

The reason I put up this post I suddenly realized how popular he is ! Most of the books against the Emergent Church do not deal with !


From:http://www.mbla.org/Driscoll_Quotes.htm

Driscoll: Writing for the furtherance of the emerging church:

“Now that the time has come to write, I am presenting this book as a contribution toward the furtherance of the emerging church in the emerging culture.” (Radical Reformission, p.17)

“I invite you to turn the page and begin a radical journey with me as we explore what life in Christ can mean in the context of an emerging church in a changing world.” (Radical Reformission, p.23)

What kind of “gospel” does the emerging church proclaim?

“The emerging church proclaims a gospel of freedom.” (Confessions, p. 25)

Why did Driscoll start Mars Hill Church?

“So I decided to start a church, for three reasons. First, I hated going to church and wanted one I liked, so I thought I would just start my own. Second, God had spoken to me in one of those weird charismatic moments and told me to start a church. Third, I am scared of God and try to do what he says.” (Confessions, p.39)

Driscoll’s vision for his Church:

“I envisioned a large church that hosted concerts for non-Christian bands and fans on a phat sound system, embraced the arts, trained young men to be godly husbands and fathers, planted other churches, and led people to work with Jesus Christ as missionaries to our city.” (Confessions, p.40)

Just a few minor problems in the secular music ministry:

“In its first few years, the Paradox [a secular music ministry of Driscoll’s church] hosted about 650 concerts for about 65,000 kids. We have had only a few minor problems, like the Japanese punk band that got naked during their set for no apparent reason and another band that set off fireworks during their show.” (Confessions, p.127)

No position on stealing?

“Our church services started to stink a whole lot less. We scraped together enough money to buy some big honking speakers, and I stole an unused sound console from my old church along with a projection screen, which were sins that Jesus thankfully died to forgive.” (Confessions, p.62)

Stolen Electricity?

“We never paid for electricity in our office apartment because the building was illegally hooked up to the power grid and all our power was stolen.” (Confessions, p.125)

Driscoll’s R-rated sermons on sex:

“Some of the sermons on sex were R-rated, and we gave warnings to parents and sometimes saw whole visiting youth groups walk out blushing halfway through the sermon. On other occasions, people walked out during the sermon and flipped me off on their way out, a trend that has continued.” (Confessions, p.134)

Just an occasional R-rated movie at church:

“Pastor James continues to lead our monthly film and theology class, at which attendance rises to more than two hundred people depending on the film. He continues to show an occasional unedited R-rated movie to train our people to think critically about the themes preached through film, which is the new cultural form of preaching.” (Confessions, p.157)

A passion for “cool?”

“I had grown facial hair, started cussing again (I had stopped for about fifteen minutes after I got saved), and briefly considered taking up smoking but had asthma, which kept me from achieving my full cool potential.” (Confessions, p.50)

Tithing and cussing issues?

“Apparently, the Ghost only led people to give once every presidential election, and I hit rock bottom one Sunday when our offering was $137. I stood alone in the room, counting the money and cussing at the offering box for being filled with one-dollar bills and the ominous smell of imminent death.” (Confessions, p.47)

Gambling for God?

“I occasionally bought lottery tickets and promised God I would tithe if he’d let me win, but to no avail.” (Confessions, p.58)

Why does Driscoll continue to be thought of as the “cussing pastor?”

“This season [at church] was messy and I sinned and cussed a lot, but God somehow drew a straight line with my crooked Philistine stick.” (Confessions, p.130)

Teaching the men of Mars Hill the essentials of life:

“We also began a ‘boot camp’ for our young men, teaching them how to get a wife, have sex with that wife, get a job, budget money, buy a house, father a child, study the Bible, stop looking at porn, and brew decent beer.” (Confessions, p.131)

Why the confusion in Driscoll’s church?

“I also did not explain in written form that we were theologically conservative and culturally liberal, which caused great confusion because half of the church was angry that the other half was smoking, while the other half was angry that I taught from the Bible.” (Confessions, p.46)

(Driscoll also writes about being “culturally liberal yet theologically conservative” in his book, “Radical Reformission,” p.22)

Adam and Eve: “Happy, horny [and] holy?”

“The Bible could end right there [in Genesis], after only two chapters, with the man and woman naked, eating fruit, and trying to fill the earth all by their happy, horny, holy selves.” (Radical Reformission, p.28)

Abraham: “a cowardly old man?”

“As time rolls along, God also works through a cowardly old man named Abraham, who is happy to whore out his loving and beautiful antique of a wife to avoid conflict.” (Radical Reformission, p.28)

Driscoll speaks of Mary and Joseph:

“And to top it all off, God comes to earth. He has a mom whom everyone thinks is a slut, a dad whom they think has the brilliance of a five-watt bulb for believing the ‘virgin birth’ line, and brothers who likely pummel him frequently, because even God would have to get at least one wedgie from his brothers if he were to be fully human.” (Radical Reformission, p.29)

Jesus telling “knock-knock jokes?”

“To the religious leaders, Jesus is a scandal – his followers are felons – and every time they see Jesus, it agitates them that he is always surrounded by a crowd, telling knock-knock jokes to miscreants who love his sense of humor (because his perfection had to have included comedic timing).” (Radical Reformission, p.30)

Jesus kicks off His ministry as a “bartender?”

“Anyway, Jesus shows up at the wedding and begins his public ministry. God has come to earth, and he kicks things off as a bartender.” (Radical Reformission, p.30)

A steady diet of the things of this world will make us better missionaries?

“I am encouraging Christians on reformission to involve themselves in their local cultures not merely for the purpose of entertainment but primarily for the purpose of education. As a missionary, you will need to watch television shows and movies, listen to music, read books, peruse magazines, attend events, join organizations, surf websites, and befriend people that you might not like to better understand people that Jesus loves.” (Radical Reformission, p.103)

Driscoll: Repenting of his sin of abstinence from alcohol?

“After I entered the ministry as a man of legal drinking age, the drum was again repeatedly beaten for me by well-meaning older pastors. So I never drank alcohol until I was thirty years of age. About that time, I was studying the Scriptures for a sermon about Jesus’ first miracle of turning water into wine, as reported in John’s gospel, a miracle that Jesus performed when he was about my age. My Bible study convicted me of my sin of abstinence from alcohol. So in repentance I drank a hard cider over lunch with our worship pastor.” (Radical Reformission, p.146)

How do we deal with People like this

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ginnyrose

This is scandalous! No reverence for a holy God or Jesus...

How do I deal with it? I will buy no books written by this fellow or any of his buddies. Actually, it is coming to the point where too many modern 'inspirational' writings are contaminated with deception that I will not read it, which means I will not buy it.

I do not wonder but that God must grieve...

How do you deal with it?

J
JB1968

Sounds like he needs to really be saved. Romans 6:1-2 and I Peter 1:14-16 are still the truth.

M
mguldner

How do you deal with it?

Well hand them over to Satan and let him do his handy work, God will judge in the end we should definitely be praying for this individual and any and every member of his church.

S
sermonindex

Fruits of hyper-Calvinism, sorry if that ticks anyone off. If you think some of this stuff is bad, you should catch wind of the stuff he says that's not published.

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Lucash

A good, devout Christian brother pointed me to Mark Driscoll about a year ago, since then I've listened to maybe 6-7 of his sermons... After reading this, I don't know what to think. I thought Driscoll was good! I've never read any of his books, just heard of him those 6-7 times, but he does hold a place in my iPod Podcast... but for how long now, I'm not sure.

C
Compton

This goes to show that a preachers sad attempts to resonate with vulgar pop culture is a poor interpretation of the example of Paul's address on Mars Hill.

Now, I have heard information that seems to indicate that Mark Driscoll has been confronted by men like John Piper and Steve Camp on his coarse and profane speech and that he accordingly repented.

So a question I would have in regards to these quotes is how recent are they?

MC

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gzus

Driscoll has repented of most of those quotes and sadly by quoting only those things it unfairly represents the majority of Mark Driscoll's ministry.

In my opinion his vulgarity seems unwise for a Pastor, but the old time reformers like Luther and the likes were also pretty vulgar. "Respectable sins" of certain cultures tend to get overlooked.

Not to excuse Luther or Driscoll, but we all have our culturally acceptable sins that get overlooked. Again, not to excuse them because of that, but it doesn't seem right to demonize or discredit them because of that either.

God bless

G
gzus

Not to mention that the emergent "church" is a rebuke to the Church in America.

If the Church was doing what is called to, and walking in obedience, and following the early Church's example, by reaching out and caring for the lost, the emergent "church" wouldn't be so popular.

I do not support the emergent so called "church", but I also see that the American Church needs to wake up and return to it's roots and start getting serious about the Great Commission instead of turning the Church into holy huddle social clubs.

Mark Driscoll tells it like it is, doesn't sugar coat anything, has a strong emphasis on doctrine and obedience, unashamedly preaches the FULL GOSPEL, and is still reaching the lost in a way that most American Churches are not.

L
LadyMac

I have to say that I find Mark Driscoll a real danger to the church especially for women, there may be some things he is doing exceptionally well, but unfortunately his tell it like he sees it is style is damaging and offensive to women. I feel for women who are in his services who listen to him tell them they are not qualified to fullfill God's call on their lives just because they are a woman. The oppressive spirit in which he teaches can only be harmful. Thankfully God has sent Godly men who have been able to speak life affirming words to me and wash away the damage that this man has done to me, but only reading 1 interview! I really hope God and other Christians encourage Mark to consider the words he is using with regards to women in ministry. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few, pray to the Lord of the Harvest to send more workers(mark driscoll would add as long as they are not women!) I would add let us include women as well! I am personally praying for him and really encourage all those who read this to pray for him. And also not to listen to his sermons!

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MrBillPro

You know, I have personally witnessed good,Godly Christian men, turn to alternatives to the true word of God teachings. I have pondered this many, many times, because I was attending a Bible study for a while, that the person holding the study got so bored with the study, he turned it into a prophesy session. He really got into Matthew Stephens and other self proclaimed prophets, of course needless to say I ran out the back door as fast as I could. I personally think some folks really do get "bored" for lack of a better word, with the word, and begin to reach out to more exciting things, that get them so far out there, their pride keeps them from coming back to the Bible. I truly believe this does happen, and LadyMac your right, we need to pray for them, because we all have to remember, our fight is not against flesh and blood.

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jimp

hi, today i went on the computer and typed in marshill and saw his most recent series is on marriage. i put on the first sermon..a new marriage with the same wife. this was the best preaching and teaching on marrage from his testimony and the bible i have heard in 48 years. i was very close to len ravenhill and what i heard today is with lens ability to communicate Jesus.what anyone could crticize would amaze me. lookds like judgement by reputation.i prayed earlier if i should start a mark driscoll topic and came on line and here it is.you go listen to what he is preaching in jan.2012 and then comment or be wise not to say anything out of your laziness and ignorance.jimp iw ish i could havew heard the sermon i listened to today years ago for it would have saved me much grief.

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jimp

hi, i was hoping to have one taker to the challenge i put forth.jimp

S
sermonindex


"I do not wonder but that God must grieve...
How do you deal with it?"..Ginnyrose

The most awful judgment a false church, or a man or woman who has fallen away, is not to know it. Then, you just go about your religion without the Holy Spirit, and live your life for yourself , and in the end, die in your sins. This is the ministry of Mr. Driscoll.

"Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

What should be done? What is done here, now. By exposing him as off the wall, and warning others as it comes before us. [ Would you want your son or daughter attending here, and drinking this foul water as the Gospel? ]

We are witnessing THE GREAT FALLING AWAY. Sometimes the Devil doesn't come with a pitchfork and horns; he comes with just a little bit of a tasty morsel to mix in with your bread. This is the nature of the "Emergent Church".

What is sold as freedom here, is really a rejection of the cross that bites into our soul lives and demands that we die to ourselves...DENY OURSELVES..and follow Jesus.

This is the only way we learn to bear fruit, and learn to love.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth!

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

Mixture and self-promotion kills, no matter how cool you think your gospel message may be. I wrote this on a recent Driscoll thread.

"My take on Driscoll is one of self promoting egotism, with very little of New Testament Christianity shining through. He seems to thrive, as your typical media shock-Jock usually does...promoting radical confrontation in the name of being real, to expose the hypocrisy of the ne'r-do-wells....and to shock the masses with his courageous endorsement of some rather odd liberties."Brothertom

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jimp

brother tom, you did go and listen to what this man is preaching today didn't you as to voice an opine without doing so is more wicked than what you realize.krino not...i was recruited by charles simpson into what turned out to be a cult under the guize of decipleship andhad ought against him and the other first line of the leadership. after gnawing at this for a year, i ran into charles and told him about my anger toward him... he begged for forgiveness and told me that he had repented of this many months ago.God opened my eyes to the fact that i was angry with a brother in the Lord for no reason for a long tim... no wonder some prayers did not get answered.jimp if you would have heard peter by the fire and spread stories of his weekness you would not have believed what and how he preached on pentacost.

H
hoohoou

There are a lot of quotes here, that's true. Are we going to judge this man who's giving his life for the cause of Christ because of a few snippets? They are not even set in context. If I pulled just a few random verses from the Bible God would be a raging lunatic murderer. It's not fair to Mark Driscoll.

What's funny to me about all the turmoil with him right now is that no group likes him. The more conservative veins of Christendom reject him and the more liberal veins of Christendom reject him.

Driscoll has stated before that he withdrew himself from the Emergent Church movement due to theological differences. Using the words emerging church and emerging culture are only descriptors for reaching a younger generation.

For better or worse this is a guy who is preaching Jesus. The only commenter who said they had listened to his preaching said he thought Driscoll was good.

How many others have actually taken the time to listen?

Before you throw stones why don't you read a book or two, listen to a sermon or two and then decide? I've listened to a lot of his preaching and speaking. I don't even really like listening to him. I don't like his delivery style. However, I still believe that he is preaching Christ to the best of his ability.

Yes, much of what he says is shocking and I wouldn't phrase certain things the same. But the people he's trying to reach are not home school kids. He's preaching to a segment of the population who have been hardened by a lost world and are utterly lost. He's preaching to them and he's reaching them. He's getting their attention and they are responding.

Y
Yeshuasboy

We need more books in "christian" bookstores these days like Alleine's "Call to the Unconverted", so that people really know that God doesn't save men in pieces. This half-conversion followed with a carnal-peace smells of fire and brimstone.
Pray, ye saints of Christ - God's will be done!

S
sermonindex

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

feels good, doesnt that?

J
jimp

hi, that is sad.

L
Lysa

by HezWelling

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!


Brother,

I have tried not to come into this thread and I was clicking on it saying, "Why am going here?" And I saw your post and laughed. I know it's not meant to be funny but I had to thank you for bringing some levity to this topic.

God bless you, Neil
Lisa

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learjet

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

CRUCIFY HIM!!!!

feels good, doesnt that?

LOL, Neil, that's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not a big Driscoll fan but what is up with this? Certainly didn't like his rebuke to the whole nation of England but I think this thread is a little over the top.

If you selectively quoted me I'm sure it would be much worse (guaranteed).

Peace my brothers and sisters!

M
MrBillPro

I think we have lots bigger fish to fry. that is doing lots more damage to Gods kingdom, but some are like vultures just sitting and waiting. If we could all just see past that log in our eye a lot of folks might not look so bad.

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Yeshuasboy

"Crucify him" - Really?
So, a man wants to start up his own church. He needs a sound system so he goes and rips off some speakers.... Doesn't sound like that man's converted to me.
Now, when did his conversion experience take place? When did he deny himself completely and take up his cross? If he hasn't the man is still unconverted.
The biggest thing happenin in North America the past 30 yrs or so is still happenin today - we have carnal pastors preaching the word of God. So, if carnal, they aren't sent by God, they are sent by other means.
Men like Keith Daniel and Paris Reidhead for years have said that they have many a time come across ministers, pastors, elders and tachers that have discovered they weren't even born-again.
Why 'crucify him' or laugh with such a remark as this? Do you not tremble at such a thought as being carnal, knowing even as much Scripture as a pharisee, and in the end God says, "Depart ye cursed! I never knew you"?
I hope to God that this man and some of you here come to your senses one day before it is too late. I hope this man has been finally converted, or if not, is on the prodigal's road going back to the Father.
Whatever happened to "Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine"?
But, nay, "For the time will come when they will not eendure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables. (2Timothy 4:2-4)"
Can the Lord not keep a man from evil?
Should carnal men have free course and go unchallenged by the saints? Oh, what a judgment of God is upon our western nations!
"Don't judge, don't judge!" Peter was converted and made a mistake siding with the jews because of his fear of them, and Paul boldly rebuked him for such a thing. How much more should a man be rebuked that is unconverted and has a false heart and doesn't tremble at the Word of God, but lives in such a way that his gospel has only a form of godliness, but no power?
After being away from this these forums for a few years, some of you, by your words, I would think you are still worshipping a little jesus, your own image constructed out of your own wicked imaginations.
I would think some of you who have been listening to the sermons on here for years now still do not "know" what righteousness is - God's righteousess, not some clothes with spots and wrinkles, but pure garments, the righteousness which is of God by faith, the faith God Himself puts into the creature, renewing the thoughts enabling a sin-infested devil of a man to be a new creature in Christ, being made conformable to His Great Image.
God help us!
You, who think you see these things, but go on living a loose lifestyle, and think that in the end God will say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant" deceive your ownselves! God enable your seared conscience to be enlightened with His grace and power so it speaks now to you, before it speaks to you in the darkness of eternity for as long as God lives.
"For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even WEEPING, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. (Php 3:18-19)" Therefore, Paul himself did not laugh at such a matter; nay! He wept over such things.
There is a hugh difference in character when one fellowships with a man full of God, than one who merely professes Christ as Lord as demons do also.
May the Lord stir up within ourselves a holy jealousy to walk as men and women of God should walk - clothed with the righteousness of Christ.

H
hoohoou

Yeshuasboy,

You make it sound as if once a man is converted that he will not sin. Is that what you're saying? I would agree that stealing for a God does seem pretty bad. The quote said that it was from something called Confession. Could it be that he confessed that sin to God and was only being honest about his failures?

If you think that Mark Driscoll is that bad you might want to avoid anything David wrote before the incident with Bathsheba. Or anything that Peter may have said, done or wrote before Paul rebuked him for being a hypocrite.

Perhaps what Mark Driscoll was doing was letting people know that, while it's not ok to sin it is ok to admit that you have. We're told to confess our sins as God is faithful and just to forgive those sins. We're also told to confess our sins to each other, are we not?

Nothing in the quotes is in direct contradiction to scripture. From the quotes there is no way to tell if he's condoning those things or relating a history of facts. You assume he's condoning it. Also, you wrote, "So the man wanted to start up his own church..." I think he also states that God told him to and he was afraid of God so he did.

You've interpreted his quotes how you see fit with no contextual support.

Again, I'm not a Mark Driscoll "guy", but I have listened to quite a few of his sermons and have never heard anything that was in direct contradiction to scripture. Some of the things he says I don't agree with, I'll grant you that. Not agreeing doesn't mean he's a false teacher and unsaved. I think a lot of what you have said is wrong or ill applied, but I don't doubt your salvation. How can I? I don't know you, your heart, or where God has brought you from.

"There is a hugh difference in character when one fellowships with a man full of God, than one who merely professes Christ as Lord as demons do also.
May the Lord stir up within ourselves a holy jealousy to walk as men and women of God should walk - clothed with the righteousness of Christ."

Comparing him to a demon? Also, I read the Bible as saying that we are given the righteousness of God when we believe and it's not of ourselves lest any man should boast. You would probably disagree with me as to how that actually looks in someones life. Would you call me also a demon?

Y
Yeshuasboy

Hoohou, with all due respect you judge conversion in the light of God's Word, in the supernatural light God has bestowed upon your own coscience, and ask those close to you if you, yourself reflect Christ.
I never said a saint cannot sin! So, read what I say, and not what I'm not saying please, and do this unto others as you would, I hope like them to do unto you.
The bottom line is the glory of God - He's longsuffering and patient with us that we come under Is yoke which is light.
Was it you, or another on this thread that said something like the quotes of the original poster have been taken out of context? If not you, my apologies. But read the quotes - they are alarming coming from a man who says he's a "christain" and no-less a pastor.
"Would you like to call me a demon?" Why ask such a foolish question? Your life speaks louder than your words - our own lives do that.

H
hoohoou

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. In God's grace, Matt.

Y
Yeshuasboy

And God tells a man to go start up a church eh, then he straight-way goes and rips off a sound-system for it? I don't buy that one bit!
Jesus told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Ghost came upon them in power; then, to go out and preach the Good News.
That's one of the problems today. Men are going out without the power from High, and preaching the Good News. Does God allow it? Obviousy He does, or it wouldn't be happening.
Know this hoohou, the kingdom of God is taken by a Holy violence, a striving beyond words that I know of. Salvation is not given to one because they "believe" in Christ - for even the demons believe as James said.
Do I wish Mark to come under God's yoke? Reread what I said in the 1st place, and you'll see that I do.

Y
Yeshuasboy

Any pastor that thinks he has to act like the world to win the world to God is nutso in my opinion - that man is deceived and bent.
Showing 'R' rated movies to his congregation? What darkness is this! Job would've probably snapped if he would've witnessed such a thing.
Evil is discerned by the grace God puts into a man; by a spiritual understanding men depart from it. If a man tells me he's a pastor, and/or that God speaks to him, while at the same time he watches evil and listens to evil... That man is obviously deceived and no doubt deceives others.
Gerhard du Toit said something like, "what you watch and listen to, you force the Holy Spirit to watch and listen to"; and God clearly states in Scripture to grieve not the Holy Spirit. Why do we do such things? Because we don't take God at His Word therefore, we take the lie instead and reap what we sow.

M
MrBillPro

Yeshuasboy...Showing 'R' rated movies to his congregation? What darkness is this! Job would've probably snapped if he would've witnessed such a thing.

I had to laugh, this was funny. So you think the R-rated movies would have had Job say forget you Lord? Well, we all know God would not have literally place this kind of trash temptation in front of Job, but I agree, Job would have probably snapped. :)

J
jimp

hi, boy do our feathers curl up when we are taken a little wrong. why do you say these things about me that are wrong while i am wrongly beating up on a man in the service of God.i invited you to go and listen to one sermon that he preached in 2012 and none of you did .you are talking about peter at the fire and not the repented peter and that is wicked and evil for you have become an accuser of the brethren in league with your cheif.you are in a dangeroud place and i know you don't want to be ,you are falling for the trick of satan.never krino a man who is serving God.diakrino yes.jimp

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Yeshuasboy

If we're not established firmly in our Christian principles as our forefathers of the faith were, we very well will end up being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine that comes along.
This young generation has the God-given right to see men and women of Christ's cross live amongst them as living epistles, having not only the words of godliness in their mouths, but also the power written across their lives.
People going to the steeple-houses and are being told that they're saved by ministers just because they believe there is a Christ! They are not told to count the cost, deny themselves, love God more than father or mother, husband or wife, with all their hearts, soul, mind, and strength, turn away from their evil companies, burn their evil music, etc. No wonder they fall away as quickly as they come in.
If they have any discernment over spiritual issues they are told to not judge it, but to forbare some false doctrine or form of hypocrisy. God help us! This leaven is making the whole lump rise in the spirit of anti-christ.
God help us to think, lest many walk to and fro with an evil mark on our foreheads that refracts any Light from renewing our minds.
The church in the west must press on, going from strength to strength in the faith that liveth forever and ever!
To think we can repent when we want, that it isn't a gift of God, and continue sinning habitually with no reproof and check of conscience, tells God, "I will do what I will do."
Deeper the fallow ground of our hearts must be plowed, our lives over-turned, our old natures be put off and despised.
Let everyone examine themselves to see if they really be in the faith. Let us have nothing come between us and our Maker whom holds all power in heaven and on earth to strengthen us in this evil day for His glory, for His purpose. Thick darkness covers this land. Get up on the High Rock and let your Light shine.

Y
Yeshuasboy

And I hope to God jimp Mark's heart will be, if not already radically transformed by the grace of God.
But I say this in truth - if a man were to say to me, and it has happened, that I've done stupid things, sinful things, in my past while even knowing better, being an honest man, I agree with them. But at the same time, I never once at those times professed to be either a christian nor a minister sent by God. Does that make me better than Mark? No. God only knows the end from the beginning.

L
learjet


"Don't judge, don't judge!" Peter was converted and made a mistake siding with the jews because of his fear of them, and Paul boldly rebuked him for such a thing. How much more should a man be rebuked that is unconverted and has a false heart and doesn't tremble at the Word of God, but lives in such a way that his gospel has only a form of godliness, but no power?

You are kidding right?

Paul did the exact opposite of what you did here, he judged the action, not the man. This is the type of judgement that the Lord was talking about when He said 'don't judge or you'll be judged' (Mt 7:1), judging men. What an amazing gift of discernment you have, heck Paul even said that 'didn't even judge himself' yet you can tell us the state of Mark Driscoll's spiritual life from afar.

This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. -1 Corinthians 4:1-5

Humor me and go read 'The Parable of the Weeds' (Matthew 13:24-30; 13:36-43 the explanation) and pay attention to what Jesus says when they ask Him if He wants them to pull the weeds up.

OR read the parable of the net in Mt 13:47-52.

Now WHO DOES THE SORTING? It says about 5 times in those 2 parables THE ANGELS do the sorting.


After being away from this these forums for a few years, some of you, by your words, I would think you are still worshipping a little jesus, your own image constructed out of your own wicked imaginations.

More amazing discernment, now I have a wicked imagination!

I would think some of you who have been listening to the sermons on here for years now still do not "know" what righteousness is - God's righteousess,

I know righteousness, I am the righteousness of of God, In Christ Jesus. This righteousness gives me the ability to sniff out self(false) righteousness.


You, who think you see these things, but go on living a loose lifestyle, and think that in the end God will say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant" deceive your ownselves! God enable your seared conscience to be enlightened with His grace and power so it speaks now to you, before it speaks to you in the darkness of eternity for as long as God lives.

More amazing discernment, now I live a 'loose lifestyle'...

Here's a Proverb about 'projection' and what you are projecting on others:

"As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man to man." -Proverbs 27:19

The reflection that you see in that mirror (our 'evil hearts') is a reflection of you.

You have an issue with the teachings (and any honest person can read through the first post and tell he's not 'teaching' these things) fine, point out the teaching. 'Play the ball, not the man' is what this forum is supposed to be about.

Going into all of this ridiculous, graceless garbage about a man that you have never spoken with or been around is a joke, and as I mentioned earlier I'm not even a big Driscoll fan.

Y
Yeshuasboy

Learjet, you've been trying to taunt me with sarcasm for a while now. But, by God's grace I'll die to it.
Sarcasm - rooted in pride.
If you have more discernment than me that's great; it's none of my business. That's between you and God.
I already pointed out what I pointed out about the man learjet. I said my piece about it.
You took what I said personally; That's obvious by your last comment. I did indeed submit about 5 comments already in response to this post - what I take personally, I already said what that is.
I'm not fishing for applauses here - I'm saying what a danger it is to preach the gospel of Christ and call oneself a minister and teacher and then lead a people with such bad examples as Mark did in his past is destructive - those examples are in the original post as you probably know.
And I already said what I hope Mark's end will be - which is finishing the race well; but he can't finish well if he hasn't started already. I also said it is good for the saints to pray for the man.
How can one follow Christ if they're not self-denying first?
And yes their are people on this site, and in steeple-houses that hear sermon upon sermon for years and never grow in the grace of God - and I cannot help but think such a condition is a fearful one.


L
learjet

How much more should a man be rebuked that is unconverted and has a false heart and doesn't tremble at the Word of God, but lives in such a way that his gospel has only a form of godliness, but no power?
After being away from this these forums for a few years, some of you, by your words, I would think you are still worshipping a little jesus, your own image constructed out of your own wicked imaginations.

Those are YOUR WORDS brother, first you tell us that Mark is "unconverted and has a false heart" then you come back with "you are still worshipping a little jesus, your own image constructed out of your own wicked imaginations."

Now, when you are called out on it, your response is 'quit picking on me'?

The title of the book that most of the quotes are taken from is called 'Confessions', not 'things that I've done that I'm really proud of'.

It's amazing to me that you can slander another person, (THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW, AGAIN) and feel no remorse about it, at all.

Guess what? There are plenty of people selling books with teachings that I can't stand, I have ZERO problem saying their teachings are trash, but you won't hear me say 'that person is unconverted' again, THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT THAT THE LORD SPEAKS AGAINST, JUDGING MEN. And that is my only point in this whole thread.

If you don't like harsh words, and people 'picking on you' then why don't you look at YOUR OWN TONE FIRST? Neil's "crucify him" point was the exact word that was needed at the time to point out the lack of grace towards the man.

S
sermonindex

i wrote "crucify him" as a REBUKE to tightly wound neo-pharisee religionists, who spend inordinate hours on the internet, trashing other saved sinners, when they can take that time, while there is still time, being of Profit to God.

instead of this terrible continous stream of SELF righteousness being spewed out on this forum, which seems to be the norm here lately..

the ONLY reason i came here at this hour 0720 AM, is to find the link to Duncan Campbell's sermon, "Heart Preperation for Revival", to send to a dear dear brother in the Lord, in Scotland, i have tarried with before in Holy Ghost prayer, and i wanted to ask him to partner with me in the Ministry of Travailing Prayer, begging God to come down in Sovereign Power in my district, where there is much 'dry wood' to burn for Jesus.....

and i saw this terrible thread rearing its ugly head, and find you leading the "charge of the light brigade of neo-pharisee's"....you should be ashamed of yourself for hectoring and eviscerating other saved sinners and brothers like you are doing, have you no fear of the Judgement Seat?...i do.

its gotten SO BAD here, that i would be terrified to lead anybody that is outside the Love of Jesus, to this site. The audio sermon library?...Bless God, but the forum?

no! i would be afraid an outsider would look at this whole tired sinsoaked mess, and ask, "why would i EVER want to be like THEM?"...the world is supposed to look at us and marvel, "look how they love one another".

THE LORD REBUKE YOU.

S
sermonindex

"It's gotten SO BAD here, that i would be terrified to lead anybody that is outside the Love of Jesus, to this site. The audio sermon library?...Bless God, but the forum?"

"No! i would be afraid an outsider would look at this whole tired sinsoaked mess, and ask, "why would i EVER want to be like THEM?"...the world is supposed to look at us and marvel, "look how they love one another".

THE LORD REBUKE YOU."....HEZWELLING...Neil .....

It's really not that bad here, especially if you could tolerate others who may disagree with you. Isn't it an act of love to defer another's difference for the sake of Peace? This is a discussion forum, with masses of unknown people, all with opinions and their discernment.

Your problem, and it is a problem, is that you want to assassinate every one who crosses you and your opinions. You do this with obvious anger, [ hatred too strong? ] over and over, and ultimately get yourself all worked up and boil over.

So, Who is sin-soaked? Where is the poison coming from? Oh...everyone else. As you have done before, why can't you just bow out silently from the forum and defer from leaving the "deposit" you evidently deem so necessary?

Driscoll needs to be warned against, and it needs to be said; according to the Word, and the facts, and his own words, he is a heretic; many, many have done so. You disagree. I can live with that, but can I say what I say without the venom?

Try an apology...it'll be OK.

H
hoohoou

BrotherTom, I think the point that Neil is getting at is the overwhelming propensity to attack the "man" and not the ball.

When statements are made that go beyond disagreement into questioning the commenter's salvation there is a problem.

There's a way to try to bring a perceived sin to someones attention without saying they have a demon or jumping to other similar conclusions. I think sometimes saying less can say a lot more in the long run.

I think we sometimes try to BE the Holy Spirit rather than letting the Holy Spirit do what is His job to do which is to convict. God knows what He's doing.

There just seems to be a lot of attacking of people and jumping to spiritual conclusions as to ones salvation. I think we can get our point across without doing that.

S
Smokey

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

At what point is it appropriate to speak up and expose false teachings? If I am getting the gist of some of the contributors here, they would have us be quiet and allow wolves to continue leading souls to the gates of hell. If one does not point out obvious error in a supposed Christian teacher, then I believe that person carries some of the blame for the false teaching . Why do some here insist on giving conflicting advice to scripture about exposing obvious error? Scripture is full of warnings about false prophets and teachers, and I am grateful for the people who have helped me over the years to recognize false teachings. The best defense against false teachers is to be in the scripture and in prayer daily. Blessings Greg

R
roadsign

I see two kinds of concerns being addressed here:

1) the tar-and-feather pharisaical approach to an alleged sinner
2) a person's alleged doctrinal error

I can accept that both ought not to be tolerated. But, generally speaking God’s people have a tendency to tolerate the first far more than the later – and even feed it.


The alleged error of another person provides a handy cover-up for our own hypocrisy and our fleshly lusts for power and self-righteousness well-propped with bible verses. It makes us feel good. If we have a victim to crucify, we can feel better about ourselves.

Jesus and the biblical writers vehemently condemned the first of these two sin problems - not unlike Neil’s unabashed literary style. I support Neil’s rebuke. It flows from a conscience sensitized to the heart of God.

Whenever a concern for another’s error becomes merged with our own fleshly drives, then our own sin is our true business. The other person’s sin is not our business priority – especially when a monstrous “log” occludes our eyesight. We merely end up hacking and stabbing wildly. And worse: The alleged “error” becomes fodder for a tantalizing orgy of the mind. Let’s admit, a Christian version of the National Inquirer will draw the hordes. We can be assured of having readers. Controversy is enticing.


O may God awaken our conscience and sensitize it to the lusts of the fleshly-driven mind - including that possible weakness in potential viewers – lest this site become a cesspool for perverted minds.


Diane


J
jimp

hi smokey, how many hours do you listen to a mans CURRENT preaching do you listen to before you declare him a wolf.or even alude to one as a wolf? are you an accuser of the brethren or a watchman. is watchman the 10th new testament calling? it is the easiest of them all ao be able to point out error .my wife does that well with me,as i with her.jimp

S
sermonindex

) the tar-and-feather pharisaical approach to an alleged sinner
2) a person's alleged doctrinal error

"Whenever a concern for another’s error becomes merged with our own fleshly drives, then our own sin is our true business. The other person’s sin is not our business priority – especially when a monstrous “log” occludes our eyesight...Roadsign......

Brothertom.......So here, you discern that our concern for the heretic expulsion is nothing more than error merged within our fleshy desires?....and you see a monstrous "log" in our eyesight? [ For I am one, and the author of this thread. ]

Could this discernment also, as Neil's rage, be derived from sentiments taken from your displeasure from those who disagree with you?

Rather than respond to Scripture, As God has never once dealt with the false prophet except with wrath and excommunication, you brand your detractors as { "a handy cover-up for our own hypocrisy and our fleshly lusts for power and self-righteousness well-propped with bible verses."}..{ Roadsign }

Sounds like your calling them [ me ] names, like self-righteous, fleshy, and power-hungry hypocrites rather than address the Word of God and those who defy it, like the false teacher Driscoll. This is character assassination, and foolish accusation, not a sensible reply nor is it Biblical.

"It makes us feel good. If we have a victim to crucify, we can feel better about ourselves. !"..Roadsign..

Maybe your emotional reply to those like me who expose the liar and resist him makes you feel better about yourself, but I never did. My concern is that The Great Falling Away, which in part Driscoll, and men like him, are promoting. Hell is being filled up, often by unwitting and naive souls who believe another gospel...and if you are your brother's keeper, you will warn him, and rebuke the deceiver too.

Every Holy brother and sister too, that ever was going on with God, desired to resist the wicked and see their family do the same. Paul speaks to a couple here;

1 Timothy 1:19-20

"Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith."

Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme."...Paul the Apostle.

Some think Driscoll is on the razors edge of this with no repentance in sight, but more-so. So, pointing this out, as so many have done, is to "Crucify him?", in your mind?

In all of your ranting, I have yet to hear your concern for the deceived; the lambs that may be killed believing these permissive doctrines as Godly. They are not.


"another"self-righteous well propped" up Bible verse?

I thought ministers of God used the Bible?..and set their faith within it, as it bears witness to the Holy Spirit?

In my book, a very foolish attitude.

[...edit.. PS: I stated that I started this thread, and I did not. I started a similar thread. I have contibuted though. ]


S
sermonindex

i think thats the first time you've ever addressed me Tom.

i know in my spirit, you've put a 'mark and avoid' on me, and thats alright.

you accused me of spewing "venom", those here who know and have spoken with me, prayed with me, know that is not the truth as to my nature.

"vemon"? who did the Lord Jesus Christ reserve his most vociferous cutting rebukes for, during His earthly Ministry?....why the most righteous around him, the Pharisees, who had no trouble condemning this one and that one, issuing forth the charge of heretic, or "unclean" at will, reflexive, and the Pharisee's never really went away, because of it's more of a hard hearted spirit, a brittle mean religiousity, first that spirit found home with Constantine, and the birth of the roman institution, and they saw fit to murder torture imprison anyone declared "heretic".....and martin Luther came "out" and a while he proclaimed the Gospel, but after a period, that fell spirit of the Pharisee consumed him....and its just traveled thru the centuries...how many followers of Jesus burned at the stake, or tortured, beaten exiled? and not at the hands of anyone but those within a "church"...whether a 'state" church, or the roman institution, or charismatic neo pharisee, fancying himself as a "watchman", a killer of "wolves", protecting the "flock", that hapless "flock", as if God needed man to 'protect' His Sheep....because this "protection" has led to more murder and disaray within the Body of Christ, than anything.

as the Lord leds, sometimes in my spirit, when i read some of these sin soaked postings, i can actually see, that if the posters themselves were alive, as Israelites during the early 30's AD Earthly Ministry of Jesus, that they would be joining the crowd, red faced, full of fury screaming, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!".

i'm not here to win any popularity contests, or to yes and amen that hard mean and brittle spirit of the pharisee thats comes over this forum. i didnt make those postings in my flesh, or to work out some physchological frustrations inherent in my mind....no, i was prophesying as led by God the Holy Ghost, but me, in myself, i am nothing but a worm of Christ.

am i an apologist for Mark Driscoll? no, i've never even heard a sermon of his, not because you, or anyone else says he's a "heretic", it because the Holy Ghost hasnt drawn me to his ministry. for myself, the men, who's sermons, and exhortations, in audio, i am drawn to are Len Ravenhill and Duncan Campbell, as well as Micheal Brown, thats it...and if you want to call those trophy's of Grace, "heretick", i dont want to be standing where you're standing, and the non-canonical books i read are simple, "Life of Brainerd", "The Diaries Long Lost of John Sung"...you know who he is? ,many say he was the "Wesley" of the Church in China, the underground house Church in China that exists today, and what a vessel that man was!....and in his day, there was a multitude of "pastors" and "believers" who bitterly opposed John Sung, saying terrible things about him. Now,i dont know what awaits me at the Judgement Seat, but i cringe when i think of what some of these Chinese pastor and believers who spoke and did ill towards John Sung, awaited them at that Time. God have mercy on them..

You say "Try an apology"? Many many here who know me, know that when i have sinned in word, i dont hesitate for an instant to repent and beg forgiveness, but i will not apologize for the Leading of the Holy Spirit in what i wrote, because i spoke the truth in Christ.

this forum IS getting that bad, and i am not the only one here Led in such an assessment in Christ.

"revival"?...you want Revival? then as God leads we need to develop a God Hunger, rather than a heresy hunter hunger, we need to start to weep between the porch and the altar, we need a Baptism of tears, instead of a this terrible bellowing ministry of the Log in the eye cyber poster.

J
jimp

dear tom, have you listened to mr. driscoll preach this year or since he denounced the emergent church movement over a year ago? if you have not , you have no opinion that is worthy of writing or reading .

S
sermonindex

Tom, i wouldnt belabor you anymore, but to address a SISTER in the Lord, a woman! in this way:

In all of your ranting

thats just wrong, its a wrong spirit, real men dont do that...i've spoke that way to the wife of my youth in the past, and worse, and of all my many sins in life past, thats the one, that broke my once hard heart like a hammer to stone, i've layed on my face, in tears, crying and begging forgiveness from both God and this dear woman, who i love as sister in the LORD, with all my heart and soul, forgave me, Blessed be God, and this very day, our hearts are knit together forever.

my sin(S) was washed in the Blood, and my conscince cleared, but of all of them, my sins, that one, speaking ill to not only my wife, but a woman is the one sin, i sometimes cannot forgive myself for. We are tasked by God Almighty and the Lord Jesus Christ to love and protect our womenfolk, wives and sisters and daughters, from our own dark hearts, and the poison that spills out of them.

i dont know what, God knows, but maybe somethings going on with you, you're witness just doesnt line up with the Blood of the Lamb, and that Perfect Love of Jesus, and i get NO JOY in writing that.....but that line you wrote to Diane is just wrong.

M
MrBillPro

Wow! after reading this whole thread, Mark Driscoll is looking a little better. :)

S
sermonindex

"Wow! after reading this whole thread, Mark Driscoll is looking a little better. :)"..MrBillPro.

I see your point! lol....I had to smile too.

For the record, that is the extent of my personal apologetics to my detractors. I meant no ill will, or harm. I stated what I thought to be wise, and not so wise, and did, and do, apply the Word as I know it to these examples. I did not accuse in spirit, but warn.

So, I take it that these opponents of mine like Driscoll? I hope you can glean much life and truth from his ministry. I, for one, though, will continue to warn and oppose what I perceive to be licentious preaching patterns.

[ licentious - lacking moral discipline; especially sexually unrestrained; "coarse and licentious men"
unchaste - not chaste; "unchaste conduct" ]

Also, a spirit of Permissiveness as Freedom in Christ, which is a lie. This leads souls away from Christ, not toward him. I would ask any Godly parent here on SI, if they would desire their children to be discipled by Driscoll? ..after reviewing some of his teaching history?

Be your own judge...I've made my position as clear as possible. Again...be blessed, and let us all repent toward Jesus...all the way.

S
sermonindex

good words Tom

For the record, that is the extent of my personal apologetics to my detractors. I meant no ill will, or harm. I stated what I thought to be wise, and not so wise, and did, and do, apply the Word as I know it to these examples. I did not accuse in spirit, but warn.

So, I take it that these opponents of mine like Driscoll? I hope you can glean much life and truth from his ministry. I, for one, though, will continue to warn and oppose what I perceive to be licentious preaching patterns.

[ licentious - lacking moral discipline; especially sexually unrestrained; "coarse and licentious men"
unchaste - not chaste; "unchaste conduct" ]

Also, a spirit of Permissiveness as Freedom in Christ, which is a lie. This leads souls away from Christ, not toward him. I would ask any Godly parent here on SI, if they would desire their children to be discipled by Driscoll? ..after reviewing some of his teaching history?

Be your own judge...I've made my position as clear as possible. Again...be blessed, and let us all repent toward Jesus...all the way.

one small point though, it might feel that way, but i am NOT a "detractor"...just writing what was on my heart as Led. the sad thing is, if you knew me face to face, OFF or before this forum, you'd like me, i'm one of the good ones, and i can say that in all sincerity...but good words though, your quoted post. neil

R
roadsign

To my dear Brothertom,

In my “rant” I attacked no particular sinner, just the sin. I understand from your own words that this is acceptable. I address a pervasive problem which, I might add, has been addressed by many outside of this forum – many far nobler than me. And you are right, I am no better. As they say, it takes one to know one.

Brother, even if you had posted this forum topic, that need not imply that you are guilty by association, although, from what I have read elsewhere, you would perhaps believe so. Certain topics simply tend to titillate the fleshly urges more than others. And this is one of them.

I do not absolve Driscoll. But neither do I condone pharisaically skapegoating anyone for what is really a vastly wider issue – if not one’s own private unconfessed sin issue.

We are dealing with a far broader issue than meets the eye. Remember the sheep metaphor in Ezekiel. When shepherds do not feed their sheep, the sheep wander in arid lands and get eaten. We are dealing also with cultural trends, values, philosophies, and so forth. Besides, nobody here knows the dynamics going on behind the TV screen. If they were Driscoll’s personal counselors, they sure would not be blabbing about him in a public forum. That is a gross violation of trust, and also seriously counter-productive.

Brothertom, YOU are the one who admonished me regarding the need to be intolerant of sin and to denounce evil. So here I am doing it! Why are you angry about that? (I ask rhetorically. I do not seek a response.)

As for me, I repeat:

It is dead wrong to permit the pearls of the kingdom to become a feeding trough for swine (or swine-ish nature) by scooping in choice nuggets of somebody else’s perceived sin problem.... at the expense of people's own spiritual well-being.


Diane


Y
Yeshuasboy

The Word of God doesn't say wide is the gate, and broad is the road that leadeth to everlasting life.
I do think that some have a different idea of what conversion is than what I do. I, like the 1John as a good touchstone. It has been brought to my mind also that "the righteous are scarcely saved", and to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
I never said that Mark wasn't converted either; although, I did say that I wonder of his conversion experience and how that did take place - no, I'm not trying to be smart. But, there's a cost in conversion - everything. Denying oneself, and taking up te cross - hating one's own life.
I recall the story from Colin Peckham whom said he was at a great convention and God was working mightily. One of his sisters said something to him like, "I feel like going amongest these people and kicking them." Colin replied, "Suzy, what on earth are you talking about?" She then said, "they all look so pious, so spiritual; but if I went amongest them and starting kicking them, I wonder what would come out of them then?!"
God is mightily able to save to the uttermost! Leonard Ravenhill said, "so you think you are saved? What are you saved from? Are you saved from temper?", (coveting, slandering, etc).
I don't truly believe that I have been railing after the man, nor slandering him. I picked out a few things that he did, things he said he did, after "God told him" to go and start up a church, and said they were wicked. Now, if he repented of those things, that is indeed a beautiful thing - glory be to God!


S
sermonindex

Christian people follow Christ, and are conformed to Him as they go. It is wrong to think that the way you believe is within your mind, it is not. The way you believe is who you follow, for it will always expose your master.

In this cyber-world we can watch things and read things about you that may be far in the past, and accumulate evidence about you very revealing about what you do, write, or say.

Paul said this though:...."For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God!"

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

" For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. "

Driscoll does not declare the whole counsel of God, that demands holiness and repentance, this is obvious, and he seems to spend a lot of time drawing disciples after himself with his ultra-permissive jet-cool hip gospel.

Some may see this as "feeding the church of God"; I see it as destructive to those who believe it to be so.

J
jimp

bro.tom. when was the last time you listened to him preach?

R
rjennings

Jimp, you are correct. I do not like the quotes attributed to him and believe them to harmful to the Gospel message but when I was searching for a Christian response to the whole Twilight junk I tuned into a YouTube mini sermon of his on the topic and he absolutely nailed it. I have recommended it several times to others and even showed it to the young adult class I taught.

I know little of him otherwise but am thankful for his godly position on that particular topic.

H
hoohoou

"It is wrong to think that the way you believe is within your mind, it is not. The way you believe is who you follow, for it will always expose your master."

Brothertom, while I definitely get what you're saying and can't flatly disagree I do think it's a bit more nuanced than that.

We've all been given unique minds and personalities. Now, I can't look at verses that tell me to feed the poor, love my neighbor as myself and to love the Lord my God with all my heart mind soul and strength and interpret that to mean some crazy social gospel that excludes Christ, forsaking the welfare of my family to provide for others or keep Christ all to myself.

However, that can look different to different people. God made us all different on purpose. He designed us specifically for a purpose. We interpret information the way we do because that's how God wired us.

Please believe that I'm not attacking, but you've been asked a number of times how many sermons of his that you've listened to. Your silence on that tells me that you haven't listened at all.

You say things like "jet-cool hip gospel". I don't know if that a shot at him or his message. The only people who've admitted listening to him have not found anything suspect in his preaching. If that's a reference to his personal style I think that's a little shallow minded. If it's a reference to how the gospel is packaged I think you need to realize that we're supposed to present it to groups of people in a way they can relate to it.

"To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some."

I asked this of yeshuasboy, I believe, but if you can come up with any instance where Driscoll has perverted the gospel I'd like to know. I've recommended him to people before and don't want to do that if he's telling people to do things that blatantly distort the gospel. I don't care that he confessed sins. We should all do that. That's probably what got me so fired up to comment. Quotes posted from a book called "Confessions" have caused people to declare him a false teacher. I thought we were supposed to confess our sins to each other. This whole argument has been in response to Driscoll doing what the gospel tells us to do.

Listen to one sermon and tell me he is leading people away from Christ.

S
sermonindex


"It is wrong to think that the way you believe is within your mind, it is not. The way you believe is who you follow, for it will always expose your master."..BT

"Brothertom, while I definitely get what you're saying and can't flatly disagree I do think it's a bit more nuanced than that.".....hoohoou

My point is many people recite their beliefs as though it justifies them, like credentials. I say it doesn't matter what you claim to believe, this will always belie what you do, How you act. [ "Be not hearers of the Word, but doers of the Word."] This was Jesus's main thrust to the wicked Pharisee's, who held the "key of Moses", as gates to the Torah. Hypocrites! Hypocrites!..over and over by the Lord, as he exposed this glaring two-faced sin.

As far as "Have I listened to a Mark Driscoll sermon lately?"...jimp...A little, as much as I could stomach it. This is not the first post about Driscoll here. I'm not sure how many, but a few over the last four years for me.

He is a licentious Shock Jock who loves to shatter the icons [ iconoclastic ]....of higher moral standards as freedom. He does this over and over and over, sprinkled in with a few orthodox teachings to establish that he knows the truth.

You want video? Here are several of him preaching using his crude, lower/nature style of the SHOCK!. Beware; Some of these are embarrasing and ugly, as he teaches about things like oral sex...[ I did not watch this garbage..].

See stable Bible preachers also testify ...THE DEATH OF DISCERNMENT.
http://www.driscollcontroversy.com/?page_id=12

Y
Yeshuasboy

So, how much can I still be worldly and serve Christ at the same time?
Who was that x-pro baseball player that said, "there's no such thing as a worldly christian; you may as well talk of a heavenly devil"?
So, should I not be strict with my own walk with Christ? Those promptings I have to keep His day holy, and shun vain things, are they of the devil? God forbid!
A few of Mark's latest tweets:
Feb 3: UFC picks - Diaz in a coin flip, Werdum, Koscheck
Feb 1: I'm praying my fellow reformed pastors will one day get more excited about reaching people than reviewing books

This man needs serious prayer from the saints (those that shun iniquity, and are clothed with Christ Jesus).
I think if every man and women were to be gloriously saved in Canada and the US, the UFC would be outta business, and probably all sport as well.

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