The Salvation of All by Andrew Murray

The Salvation of All
By Andrew Murray
(Chapter 23 of his book "God's Will")

"I exhort therefore, that, supplications, prayers, intercessions, -and giving of thanks be made for all men .... this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have all men to be saved' --1 Timothy 2:14.

"The Lord is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance "--2 Peter 3:9.

After Paul urged that supplications, prayers, and intercessions should be made for all men, he reminded us that we may do so in confident assurance that it is good and acceptable to God. He wills that all men should be saved. The knowledge and faith of God's will for all is to be the motivation and the measure of our prayer for all. What God in heaven wills and works for His children on earth we are to will and work for, too. As we enter into His will for all, we will know what we are to do to fulfill that will. And, as we pray and labor for all, the faith in His will for all will inspire us with confidence and love.

Perhaps the question arises-If God wills the salvation of all, why is it not happening? What about the doctrine of election, as Scripture teaches us? And, what about the Omnipotence of God, which is surely equal to His love that wills the salvation of all? As to election, remember that there are mysteries in God and in Scripture which are beyond our reach. If there are apparently conflicting truths which we cannot reconcile, we know that Scripture was not written, like a book of science, to satisfy the intellect. It is the revelation of the hidden wisdom of God, which tests and strengthens faith and submission, and awakens love and childlike teachableness.

If we cannot understand why His power does not work what His will has purposed, we will find that all that God does or does not do is decided by conditions far beyond our human comprehension. It requires a Divine wisdom to grasp and to order God's ways. We will learn that God's will is as much beyond our comprehension as God's being. And, it is our wisdom, safety, and happiness to accept every revealed truth with the simplicity and the faith of little children. We must yield ourselves to it to prove its living power within our hearts. Let us not fear to yield ourselves to the utmost to this blessed word: God will have all men to be saved.

God is love. His will is love. As He makes His sun to shine on the good and the evil, so His love rests on all. However little we can understand why His love is so long-suffering and patient, we can believe in and be assured of the love that God gives to us-a love whose measure in heaven is the gift of His Son, and on earth every child of man. His love is nothing but His will in its Divine energy doing its very utmost in accordance with the Divine law. Thus, His relationship to mankind is regulated to make men partakers of His blessedness. His will is nothing but His love in its infinite patience and tenderness delighting to win and bless every heart into which it can gain access.

If we only knew God and His love, how we would look on every man we see as one upon whom that love rests and for whom it longs. We would begin to wonder about the mystery of grace that has taken up the Church, as the body of Christ, as a partner in the great work of making that love known, and rendered itself dependent upon its faithfulness. And, we would see that all who live to do God's will must believe this to be its central glory: our doing the will that wills that all men should be saved.

God will have all men to be saved. This truth is a supernatural mystery. It can only be understood by a spiritual mind through the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It is in itself so Divine and beyond our apprehension-the difficulties that surround it are so many and so real-that it needs so much time and sacrifice to master its teaching. To very many who do not possess a humble, loving heart, the words carry little meaning.

To the believer, who in very deed seeks to know and to do all God's will, God's words give a new meaning to life. He begins to see that this call to love and to save his fellow men is not something accidental or additional. He begins to realize that, along with the other things that make up his life, he can devote as much time and thought to this as he sees fit. He learns that just as this loving, saving will of God is the secret source of all His will and rules it all, so this loving, saving will is to be the chief thing that he lives for, too. I have been redeemed, organically united to, and made a member of the saving Christ, who came to do this will of the Father.

I have been chosen and set apart and fitted for this as the one object of my being in the world. I begin to see that the prayer, Thy will be done! means, above everything else, that I give myself for this loving, saving will of God to possess, inspire, use, and if need be, consume me. And, I feel the need of spelling out the words of the sentence until my heart can call them its own: God-my God, who lives in me--will have, with His whole heart, in that will which He has revealed to His people that they may carry it into effect--all men, here around me, and to the ends of the earth--to be saved, to have everlasting life.

Paul wrote these words in connection with a call to prayer for all men. Our faith in the truth of God's loving, saving will must be put into practice. It must stir us to prayer. And prayer will most certainly stir us to work. We must not only seek to believe and feel the truth of these words, but we must also act. This will of God must be done. Let us look upon those around us as the objects of God's love, whom His saving will is seeking to reach. Let us, as we yield ourselves to this will, go and speak to those around us about God's love in Christ.

It is possible that we are not succeeding in doing God's will in our personal life because we neglect the chief thing. As we pray to be possessed and filled with the knowledge of God's will, let us seek, in all things, to have our hearts filled with this love. Let us have tongues which speak of Jesus and His salva tion, and a will which finds its strength in God's own will--that all men be saved. So will our life, our love, our work, and our will in some measure be like that of Jesus Christ--a doing of the Father's will, that none of these little ones should perish.

Very refreshing and encouraging to read. Thanks for posting!

It is good to read this here. Many thanks.

In an honest effort to understand the passages treated in the article, is one Scripturally warranted to conclude from God's desire to save all that He provides an opportunity for all to be saved? I ask this because I have a very good Catholic friend who holds that God must provide such an opportunity in order for Him to be "sincere" when He expresses His desire for all to be saved. Thus, in that belief system, a modicum of faith ( not even in Christ ) is all that is required of a man to be saved. Belief in the Gospel is not a prerequisite for those who have not heard it; which seems logical if you conclude that God must ( in order to make sense of His universal desire ) give to everyone an opportunity to be saved and yet not all hear the Gospel before they die.

I ask my question here as one sincerely interested in God's heart and mind on this issue and not to rouse a debate.

I'm open to the possibility that the Lord will in fact save all. It is not merely His 'desire' to see all saved, but it is His will.

The question is, will His will (purpose, determination) be accomplished?

This may appear to be 'heretical' but it is in fact a teaching that's existed not only, I believe, in the Scripture, but there were church fathers that explored this as well as many men and women throughout church history who believed in the possibility of 'salvation for all'

Here are a few quotes...

“God forbid that I should limit the time for acquiring faith to the present life. In the depths of the divine mercy there may be opportunity to win it in the future state.” – Letter to Hansen von Rechenberg, 1523. (Luther's Briefe, ii. 454.)

'How could the Bible possibly speak of the perfect victory of God our Creator who loves righteousness and cannot bear evil, if that victory really means that He cannot bring His own creatures at last to hate evil as He hates it, but must confirm multitudes, indeed the majority of them, in their choice of evil for ever and ever?' - Hannah Hurnard (Hinds Feet in High Places)

"As for the purification of all human nature, I fully believe it, either in this world, or some after ages." – William Law (author of A Serious Call to A Devout and Holy Life... a book John Wesley was impacted by)

"After long wandering, and by devious paths, sinful man will at last return to Him in whose Image he was created; for this is his final destiny." – Sadhu Sundar Singh

"God is not all in all, and never will be all in all, until the will of God rules in the heart of every man, in the soul of every man, until the redemption of Jesus Christ in its great and ultimate purpose becomes a reality, a finality." –John G. Lake "The Habitation of God"

"One day, all things shall manifest Christ because the whole universe shall be filled with Him. In creating all things, God desires that all things will manifest Christ." -Watchman Nee

After reading the chapter, I don't think Murray meant it the way we today mean the salvation of all (SoA). At least by the quotes I supplied, I'm not convinced he was a man of universal salvation belief.

While I was toying with SoA for a few years, I too heard the argument that the early church fathers taught it. But where are their public teachings of it? It's always in some well hidden meaning of one of their works that only the SoA people can find. If it was taught outright like people are teaching OSAS, then there would be much more about it and to top it off, it would be spelled out CLEARLY in the Holy Scriptures that God wrote through men by the power of the Holy Ghost.

No power of hell can hide one of God's pure truths or I submit that we cannot trust God if it can be hidden b/c there is one stronger than God.

Mattie, what made me finally turn away from SoA was when I was talking with someone about Christ and you know how you are talking and thinking in your head at the same time? Well, I came to the conclusion that I could not in all honesty say to this person, "You need Jesus now, but if you don't choose Him today, it's ok b/c you might have to suffer a little but in the end you will be reconciled to Him."

So I figured that if I cannot lead someone to that belief, then it was false in my book. And besides Mattie, show me one place in the Bible where the disciples who preached of the judgment to come - where they even gave a hint to people that there was hope if they turned down Christ... I humbly submit to you that you won't find it b/c it's not in there.

God bless you in your search,
Lisa

(edited corrections that I could find!)

Hey Lysa,

The Spirit didn't make this a hidden issue. If you look at the writings of Origen and Clement of Alexandria... it's pretty plain in their writings. Origen's 'De Principis' is one of many writings during the first 3 centuries that plainly spelled out salvation for all.

Concerning the Scriptures... also not a hidden issue. I agree with you that the Spirit speaks plainly and doesn't speak in hidden sayings.

But I encourage you to take a fresh look at the Scripture in it's original context.

When Paul wrote to the Colossian church, place yourselves in their shoes as they hear him say 'He created all things through Him and for Him' as well as saying 'by Him to reconcile all things to Himself through the blood of the cross, things in heaven and on earth, having made peace.' (v.20) How would a Colossian believer have understood this any other way? He created all and will reconcile all (not most, or not some).

Place yourself in the church of Rome, hearing Paul expound that 'All Israel shall be saved' and 'all things are from Him, to Him, and through Him' Are all things really to Him? Or most?

Place yourselves in the shoes of the disciples, hearing Jesus speak of being the shepherd who leaves the 99 for the 1 UNTIL HE FINDS IT and declaring 'even so it is not the WILL of your Father that one of these little ones perish' (Matthew 18:10-14).

It's plain if studied in context. I can give many more examples... but the point I'm indicating is the work of Christ is for all and will be accomplished.

Mattie,

My point exactly in what you wrote: "But I encourage you to take a fresh look at the Scripture in it's original context." It is hidden if the average Christian cannot get to "the original language." And another point about hiddenness: Origen and Clement are not in the canon of Scriptures that is readily available to everyone. So using Scripture only....

You wrote: "I agree with you that the Spirit speaks plainly and doesn't speak in hidden sayings." I don't think you do or is would be plainly in the Scriptures that are available to everyone, so obvious that [b]though he be a fool, he could not err in it[/b], in the truth you are trying to present.

Mattie, how do you lead people to Christ or do you even bother? I'm asking this as a serious question, not a smart-alec question. Forget the above 2 paragraphs and just lead me through how you lead someone to Christ believing SoA. I'd really like to hear it as would a lot of other people, I'm sure.

Thank you and God bless you,
Lisa

Lysa, I responded to what you said about there being a lot of 'hiddeness' among the church fathers on this issue. I'm answering your question. So this has nothing to do with questioning the canon.

The 'original language' may not be available to all of us, but your assuming that all Christians should understand Scripture through the KJV lenses. There's other translations out there available to the ordinary peeps like you and I that use different wording, in accordance to the original language and context. Besides, there are lots of people in the West (again, not Greek scholars... ordinary folk) that are studying this and seeing this. So... it's not hidden.

Fear of endless torment has never been and should never be a motive to lead people to Christ. Did Jesus ever tell His disciples to proclaim the good news because people are heading for endless torment? You won't see it anywhere.

Acts... the apostles proclaimed Jesus is the Lord of all. Look at the messages they preached - not one mention of endless torment. It's the heralding of Jesus as the Lord and Messiah. This is the good news! He is risen, He is Lord, and He's coming again to judge the earth (also good news) and restore all things (Acts 3:19-21, Acts 5:42, Acts 17:16-31, Acts 17:6)

excerpt from origens writings:

The Saviour also saying, "I say unto you, Resist not evil;"[9] and, "Whoever shall be angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment;"[10] and, "Whosoever shall look upon a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart;"[12] and in issuing certain other commands,--conveys no other meaning than this, that it is in our own power to observe what is commanded. And therefore we are rightly rendered liable to condemnation if we transgress those commandments which we are able to keep. And hence He Himself also declares: "Every one who hears my words, and doeth them, I will show to whom he is like: he is like a wise man who built his house upon a rock," etc.[1] So also the declaration: "Whoso heareth these things, and doeth them not, is like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand," etc.[3] Even the words addressed to those who are on His right hand, "Come unto Me, all ye blessed of My Father," etc.; "for I was an hungered, and ye gave Me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink,"[5] manifestly show that it depended upon themselves, that either these should be deserving of praise for doing what was commanded and receiving what was promised, or those deserving of censure who either heard or received the contrary, and to whom it was said, "Depart, ye cursed, into everlasting fire (Mt. 25:34, etc.)" Let us observe also, that the Apostle Paul addresses us as having power over our own will, and as possessing in ourselves the causes either of our salvation or of our ruin: "Dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and of His patience, and of His long-suffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But, according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou art treasuring up for thyself wrath on the day of judgment and of the revelation of the just judgment of God, who will render to every one according to his work: to those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and immortality, eternal life;[8] while to those who are contentious, and believe not the truth, but who believe iniquity, anger, indignation, tribulation, and distress, on every soul of man that worketh evil, on the Jew first, and (afterwards) on the Greek; but glory, and honour, and peace to every one that doeth good, to the Jew first, and (afterwards) to the Greek."[11] You will find also innumerable other passages in holy Scripture, which manifestly show that we possess freedom of will. Otherwise there would be a contrariety in commandments being given us, by observing which we may be saved, or by transgressing which we may be condemned, if the power of keeping them were not implanted in us (ANF, Vol. 4, p. 306).

Whether it is possible for the apostle to contradict himself? And if this cannot be imagined of an apostle, how shall he appear, according to them, to be just in blaming those who committed fornication in Corinth, or those who sinned, and did not repent of their unchastity, and fornication, and uncleanness, which they had committed? How, also, does he greatly praise those who acted rightly, like the house of Onesiphorus, saying, "The Lord give mercy to the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain: but, when he had come to Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me. The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day."[5] Now it is not consistent with apostolic gravity to blame him who is worthy of blame, i.e., who has sinned, and greatly to praise him who is deserving of praise for his good works; and again, as if it were in no one's power to do any good or evil, to say that it was the Creator's doing that every one should act virtuously or wickedly, seeing He makes one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour. And how can he add that statement, "We must all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, that every one of us may receive in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad? "[6] For what reward of good will be conferred on him who could not commit evil, being formed by the Creator to that very end? or what punishment will deservedly be inflicted on him who was unable to do good in consequence of the creative act of his Maker?[1] Then, again, how is not this opposed to that other declaration elsewhere, that "in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the Master's use, prepared unto every good work."[4] He, accordingly, who purges himself, is made a vessel unto honour, while he who has disdained to cleanse himself from his impurity is made a vessel unto dishonour. From such declarations, in my opinion, the cause of our actions can in no degree be referred to the Creator. For God the Creator makes a certain vessel unto honour, and other vessels to dishonour; but that vessel which has cleansed itself from all impurity He makes a vessel unto honour, while that which has stained itself with the filth of vice He makes a vessel unto dishonour. The conclusion from which, accordingly, is this, that the cause of each one's actions is a pre-existing one; and then every one, according to his deserts, is made by God either a vessel unto honour or dishonour. Therefore every individual vessel has furnished to its Creator out of itself the causes and occasions of its being formed by Him to be either a vessel unto honour or one unto dishonour(ANF, Vol. 4, p. 324).

Origen is not scripture, interesting reading it is anyhow,but I think one needs to come to terms and peace within ones own heart about Scripture that speak of gods will, and his sovereignty, and that scripture does seem to convey most humans will be lost despite Gods love to them and his will for them to be saved. I love my children, i love them even when they are disobedient and do their own will that may be in contradiction to mine, it does not effect my will for them despite what they do.

Scripture says his will is for all to be saved, and he made a way for them to be, and in his sovereignty he made it such we play a part of accepting his perfect free gift of salvation or trample his sons blood under our feet.

also we can say Gods will is we should never sin or fall, even it is our duty to walk as Christ walked, and yet we often fail, but it is still his will and he is still able to use us and move us to be in His will.

its deep things not so easy to wrap your finite mind around always.

Mattie wrote:

Fear of endless torment has never been and should never be a motive to lead people to Christ.

---------------

I do not use endless torment as a motive to lead people to Christ either; never have, never will, thank you Jesus!

So how do you, Mattie, lead people to Christ when you witness to them?

I have no set way or rule as to how I'd lead others to Christ.

Some conversations might lead to us having a longer talk about the gospel, and other conversations may be me saying something very briefly. Some people I say nothing at all.

However the Holy Spirit leads each conversation. It's always unique and based upon where the individual is.

Hope that answers your question.

I'm pretty amazed at some of the comments in this post. In Hebrews, the writer warns the recipients very clearly to hold onto their faith until the end or face uspeakable punishment. Yet somehow, warning the unbeliever is wrong either as a motive for sharing the Gospel or as one for believing in it. Why is "fleeing the wrath to come" not a motive for turning from sin to God and faith and Jesus Christ? Paul in the book of Romans goes to great lengths in describing the future of Gentiles and JEws who come short of God's glory and their horrible end and then shows man the salvation from that is from God. Salvation and a Savior make no sense without an understanding of Hell.

In Hebrews when the writer talks about the coming punishment He is speaking to Jews straying from the faith they already possessed (Heb 6:1-2 and Heb 10:24-28) makes that pretty clear. So whoever the writer is... he's speaking to believers.

When John the Baptist spoke of the 'wrath to come', again He is speaking to the children of Israel, a people who had the Law and the Prophets.

Paul in Romans, again, is speaking to believers.

I am not diminishing the warnings of a coming judgment. I believe in that.

But look at Jesus speaking to the woman caught in adultery saying 'I no longer condemn you'. See Him speak to the cripple brought through the roof saying 'Son, your sins are forgiven you' (even before He ever repented!) Look at Him telling the woman at the well 'I am the living water' and to Nicodemus 'you must be born of the Spirit to see the kingdom'

There is no rule as to how we are to share Jesus with another. To do so is to limit Him from speaking through as HE chooses, rather than a set method.

Often our interpretations of hell are completely out of context. We believe it so strongly because much of the Reformed tradition passed that on to us. I am not downplaying all of the Reformed theology. Some of it is very good. But some of it still carried a lot of Catholic baggage.

Mattie wrote:

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Hope that answers your question.
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No, it doesn't but I'm letting it go. We will have to agree to disagree.

Lisa

Ok

Who is Christ addressing in the sermon on the mount where He explicitly warns about the judgment of eternal torment in hell? It says He spoke to the multitudes(Matt.5:1). John baptist did not warn Jews only but also gentile soldiers(Lk.3:14). We see this throughout the gospels. In Acts 24:25 we see that Paul reasoned with Felix the governor about righteosness and self-control and the coming judgment, and Felix became alarmed from the warnings.

To say that all the epistles in the New Testament address and warn only Christians is to twist the Scriptures to ones own destruction. It is clear that the writers wrote many of those letters with both believers and non believers in mind, for there are warnings which apply to both.

"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil."(Prov.16:6)

"save others by snatching them out of the fire: to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."(Jude 23)

"And do not fear those who kill the the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell"(Matt.10:28)

The idea of a universal salvation, or a second chance after death, are to be considered damnable heresies and shunned by all true Christians.

"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen."(2Pet.3:15-18)

whyme wrote

In an honest effort to understand the passages treated in the article, is one Scripturally warranted to conclude from God's desire to save all that He provides an opportunity for all to be saved? I ask this because I have a very good Catholic friend who holds that God must provide such an opportunity in order for Him to be "sincere" when He expresses His desire for all to be saved. Thus, in that belief system, a modicum of faith ( not even in Christ ) is all that is required of a man to be saved. Belief in the Gospel is not a prerequisite for those who have not heard it; which seems logical if you conclude that God must ( in order to make sense of His universal desire ) give to everyone an opportunity to be saved and yet not all hear the Gospel before they die.

The answer to this question has the do with what theologians call "General Revelation". That means that God has revealed certain basic truths about Himself to all men in every part of the world, whether or not they ever hear about Jesus Christ(Rom.1:19-20). But these basic truths are not enough for one to be saved, since Scripture makes it clear that one must come through faith in Christ to be saved(Jn.14:6). So how do we reconcile God's desire for all men to be saved and the fact that the gospel is not heard by all?

The answer is that if men will respond to God's General Revelation, God will give them more light, the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and He will reveal His Son to them. He is more than able to accomplish that and He will do so. God promises that those who sincerely seek to know Him will find Him, no matter who or where they are.

There are testimonies of people in remote parts of the world who have had Christ revealed to them in miraculous ways. It can be through a gospel tract, a missionary, or even a vision. The problem is that most of those people do not respond to General Revelation to begin with. Many seek to establish their own righteosness through false religions.

Hi Oracio,

The 'judgment to come' that you are referring to doesn't have any indication that the judgment is a punishment with no end. That would be based on your own assumptions of the text. All of the texts you've show say nothing about it being endless punishment.

How do you know that the apostles wrote to believers AND unbelievers alike? Most the epistles are addressed to the saints, the faithful, the church, etc. What would cause you to think otherwise?

All the passages you quoted say nothing about the punishment being an endless one.

So you basically believe that God is love only up to a certain point, correct?

I hear it said He is love BUT He is just. Does His justice really contradict His love? Does He stop becoming a loving essence only to become a just essence? Doesn't make sense and sounds self contradictory.

Mattie, the Scriptures I pointed out were not intended to prove the biblical doctrine of eternal torment. They were mainly intended to show both Christ and the apostles warned Jews and Gentiles to flee from the wrath to come and so should we.
As to the Doctine of eternal punishment, there are numerous passages that clearly affirm and warn about it. It is an essential Christian doctrine, which you must believe as a true Christian, like the Deity of Jesus Christ. Otherwise you allign yourself with a damnable heresy.

I do not wish to get into a lengthy heated debate here with you to prove this doctrine. I am sure you know of many of the passages which come to mind, since you seem to intellectually know much of Scripture. I would simply urge you to re-consider your views on this before it is too late.
Having stated all that, if you are sincerely seeking to know whether or not eternal punishment is taught in Scripture, I would be willing to share some of the clear passages which teach it, for your prayerful consideration.

Regarding the issue of God's love and justice, a few words I would share here. When men state that the idea of God's great love for sinners and His justice in executing eternal punishment are a contradiction, it shows that they reject the truth of the holiness of God as taught in Scripture. Scripture makes it very clear that God's infinite holiness demands an infinite punishment for sin. He is not like you and I in His infinite holiness(Psalm 50:21; Hab.1:13)). Sin is something He absolutely detests beyond our comprehension(We see the serious nature of it in the death of His own Son). When men sin, they do not sin against men only, but against an infinitely holy God, and herein lies the problem; men assume that God must be like them in their tolerance for sin. But they are seriously mistaken to try to bring Him down to their level of tolerance for sin. He is not like the tolerant, pagan, false gods or idols of this world. He must and will punish sin with an eternal punishment.

I decided to post some of the Scripture references which teach clearly the eternal duration of hell, for the prayerful consideration of those who are unsure on this:

Mt. 18:8 "… thrown into eternal fire."

Mk 9:43 "…fire never goes out."

Mk 9:48 "…worm never dies and the fire is not quenched."

Is. 33:14 "… with everlasting burning."

Luke 3:17 "… with unquenchable fire."

Mt. 3:12 "… with unquenchable fire."

Heb. 6:2 "… the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

Jude 7 The people of Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of those who suffer the "punishment of eternal fires."

Dan. 12:2 "… some to everlasting life, other to shame and everlasting contempt."

2 Th. 1:9 "…they will be punished with everlasting destruction."

Gal. 1:8 If someone preaches another gospel, he is to be "eternally condemned."

Is. 66:24 Those that rebelled against God, "Their worm will not die, nor will the fire be quenched."

Rev. 14:10-11 "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever"

Is. 34:8-10 "Lord has a day of vengeance … it will not be quenched night or day. Its smoke will rise forever."

Mt 25:41 "… eternal fires prepared for the devil and his angels."

Mt. 25:46 speaking of unbelievers..."They will go away to eternal punishment."

Jude 6 The angels will be bound with "everlasting chains."

Rev. 20:10 The devil, beast, and false prophet being tormented "forever and ever."

Mattie said,

Besides, there are lots of people in the West (again, not Greek scholars... ordinary folk) that are studying this and seeing this. So... it's not hidden.

Yes that is true, and it is very sad! Many in the imergent church (Rob Bell, Brian Mclaren, etc..) are teaching these doctrines in America. But I believe the scriptures Oracio posted are plenty to show that, SoA or universalism or whatever you want to call it, is a great and dangerous error!!!

I believe it was Rob Bell that said, "the world is already reconciled to God, they just don't know it yet."

It is frightening that people sincerely believe this even though scripture warns Mark 9:43 " it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that NEVER shall be quenched:"(emphasis mine)

This is NOT a game!!! God desires all men to be saved, but He will punish those who do not accept that salvation!!! He has provided a way of reconciliation, only through Christ, and has given US the ministry of reconciliation!(2Cor.5:18)

If men were already reconciled why would Paul say, "I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me-the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace."(Acts20:24)

Let us be ever so willing to suffer all things so that some might be saved!

With love,
Timmyjoe

Mattie wrote:

How do you know that the apostles wrote to believers AND unbelievers alike? Most the epistles are addressed to the saints, the faithful, the church, etc. What would cause you to think otherwise?

One clear example is in Romans 2(the whole chapter). Paul is clearly warning unconverted Jews there. The writers of the epistles were well aware of the fact that both converted and unconverted people would be hearing those letters read, even though they were mainly addressed to Christians. That is why there are numerous warnings about the severity of God's eternal judment upon the wicked. This is throughout the Word of God. And this has to be part of the message we proclaim to a lost and dying world. We must not water down these essential truths in order to tickle ears that reject those truths. We must lift up our voice like a trumpet in these last days and spare not(Isa.58:1). These truths must be tempered with God's love and compassion while we proclaim them, but they must be proclaimed nonetheless. And we must also proclaim the good news of Christ crucified and ressurected along with urging men to repent and trust in Christ while there is time. We must speak the truth in love, and preach the whole counsel of God.