Glenn Beck's Ecumenical Push on the Church

Glenn Beck Rally Set Stage for "Christians" to Accept Paganism, and Mormons Say Beck Achieved 200 Year Goal of Getting Evangelicals to Declare That Mormons Are Christians

by Brannon S. Howse

www.worldviewweekend.com

I tried to warn evangelical leaders about Glenn Beck's rallies but most of them laughed at me. Now Satan is the one laughing at them as "Christians" run head-long into embracing non-Biblical theology and call it "Christian".

Greg West in the Mormon LDS Examiner validates my pre-Beck rally warnings to Evangelical leaders on my radio program, columns, e-mails, and phone conversations. I told them that partnering with Beck in a spiritual enterprise would send the message that Mormons are Christians.

Greg West writes:

As a Mormon, I have to consider an unintended message throughout Beck's work, which has culminated in this event. That message is: "Mormons are Christian believers." Despite nearly two centuries of misrepresentation and religious envy by sectarian Christianity, Beck has achieved the visibility, prominence, and has had the time day after day, week after week, to speak openly and truly about his core beliefs. Those statements of faith have disoriented and confused those who had previously believed the lies about Mormons.

Jim Garlow, a popular and influential pastor who partnered with the Mormon faithful in California to defend traditional marriage was quoted recently in CNN's Belief Blog, saying, "I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation - persons extremely well known in Christianity - and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), 'Glenn is saved...' He understands receiving Christ as Savior."

Hallelujah! The light bulb has been switched on after nearly two centuries! Every single member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that a person must be "born again" and receive Jesus Christ as his Savior and Redeemer. Our holy books teach that salvation comes only in and through the atonement of Christ and that there is no other way a person can be saved…Glenn Beck's beliefs are mainstream Mormon beliefs. Joseph Smith, the Church's founder, was a Christian prophet. He was an apostolic witness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
http://www.examiner.com/lds-church-in-national/glenn-beck-and-the-restoring-honor-rally

Notice that West admits that what Beck has said on his broadcasts about his faith has "disoriented and confused" people who thought that Mormonism was not consistent with Christianity. However, Beck has now convinced them that Mormonism and Christianity are compatible with the help of America's Christian leaders.

The actor Kirk Cameron is the only one I personally know of that took to heart my pre-Beck rally warnings and reversed himself. Kirk really encouraged me when I needed it by calling to thank me for the column and sharing with me how it helped him understand why he must not take part in Beck's 8-27 event. Kirk even had the courage to come on my national radio program and speak about this issue publically.

The irony is rather thick. Kirk played "Buck Williams" in the Left Behind Movies. Buck was a famous secular journalist who became a believer and then set out to warn Christians not to accept the demonic spirituality of a one-world religion that was unfolding through national and international figures.

I believe what happen over the weekend was a seismic shift within evangelicalism; an historic event that will go unnoticed by most Christian leaders. A few leaders may eventually understand the nature of what happen but it will be weeks if not months before they respond. Many of these leaders waited years to provide the defense against Oprah's pagan spirituality and when they did it was too late for many of the goats within their flock of sheep that had already consumed Oprah's spiritual poison.

Sadly, most Christian leaders and pastors are completely deficient in understanding the ideas and philosophies that have, and continue, to be the force behind the rushing cultural stream. As a result; the members of their own congregation hear no advanced warning of the coming spiritual undertow nor do they acquire the needed Biblical knowledge that keeps them from being children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, (Ephesians 4:14).

The compromise by evangelical leaders and pastors by spiritually uniting with "all faiths" with the theme of "looking to the one god", as described by Beck, has laid the foundation for untold numbers of self-professing Christians to now embrace pluralism and pagan spirituality. Pastors and evangelical leaders literally locked arms with all faiths, including Imams, in a spiritual endeavor despite the clear Biblical warnings of II Corinthians 6:14.

The Mormon Church is now rejoicing over the public relations success that these undiscerning evangelical leaders have handed the Mormon Church by uniting with Glenn Beck in the two events that were promoted as spiritual.

I believe that Beck does not only embrace the pagan spirituality of Mormonism but also Cosmic Humanism. Cosmic Humanism is known by most as the New Age Movement. Cosmic Humanism says that man is god. Mormonism says that man can become god. See the similarities? Before you react listen to what Glenn Beck said on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace on the Fox News Channel. Glenn Beck said that his rally was not political and the reason for his rally was because "there's nothing that we can do that will solve the problems that we have and keep the peace unless we solve it through God, unless we solve it in being our highest self. Be your higher-self."

Beck used the phrase "higher self" three times in the interview with Chris Wallace. No one talks that way unless they know exactly what they are saying. One New Age website says:

There are many great words to describe Who or What your highest identity or Self truly is. Below are just a few: Higher Self, I am Presence, I Am That I Am…Cosmic Consciousness, God, Christ, Holy Spirit And the list goes on…

Notice that "I AM that I AM" is another word for "higher self". Last week on his radio program Beck said, "I Am That I Am is the most powerful phrase in any language as it is the name of god, never use it in vain; use it to create who you want to be. I AM blank."

I AM is a title that is to be reserved for God Himself. In Exodus 3:13 God told Moses that when the people of Israel ask for My name tell them, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" In John 8:58 we read, "Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'"

"I AM" is to be reserved as a title for God yet it is being blasphemed in the pagan practice of what is called "the law of attraction." In the book The Secret, that was promoted by none other than Oprah Winfrey, Rhonda Byrne wrote:

· The law of attraction is the law of creation….You create your life through your thoughts." [p. 15.]

· There isn't a single thing that you cannot do with this knowledge. It doesn't matter who you are or where you are, The Secret can give you whatever you want. [P. xi]

· With this powerful knowledge, you can completely change every circumstance and event in your entire life…" [p. 17]

The fact that people like Beck on the right and Oprah on the left are proclaiming the "I AM" message is a sign that we are living in the last days according to Jesus Himself in Luke 21:7-8:

And they asked Him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? And he said, "Take heed that yet be not deceived: for many will come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them."

Former New Ager, now Biblical Christian, Ray Yungen writes:

Notice, "Christ" is italicized in verse 8, meaning that it was not in the original manuscript. The translators of the King James Bible probably thought it awkward that it said "Many shall come saying, I am." Probably for the sake of clarity and to be consistent with Mathew 24, the translators added the word "Christ."

Did you catch that? Jesus was saying that when people say they are god by using the title "I AM" it is a sign that we are living in the end times. We are also told to run away from the people saying "I AM". Sadly, many of our nation's pastor's and Christian leaders did not run from Glenn Beck but ran to join him in a spiritual service and enterprise.

Beck on his radio program last week also declared, "Hell is an eternity of regret not being able to forgive yourself." This is a completely unbiblical statement. Nowhere in the Bible do we see instruction to "forgive yourself" because it is impossible. 2 Corinthians 5:15 says, "He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again." Verse 17 is what brings me peace since I have repented of my sins and placed by faith and trust in the Jesus of the Bible. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

Grace and forgiveness is provided to those who repent and therefore there is no need to believe the lie that you can "forgive yourself" of your sins.

Glenn Beck has accomplished what neither Oprah Winfrey nor Shirley McClain could. I believe that Beck used his conservative veneer and doublespeak to co-opt leaders of the religious right. Beck and these evangelical leaders have sent the message that it is acceptable for millions of "Christians" to embrace humanistic spirituality and paganism for the purpose of social activism and social change. These pastors should re-read Luke 17:2 where we read; "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Beck has set the stage for "conservatives" to accept a one-world religion and numerous leaders of the religious right pulled the ropes that raised the curtain on this ecumenical stage. Christian leaders that should have known better nodded in agreement and provided the backdrop as Beck preached his sermon of pluralism and universalism on 8-27 and 8-28.

Perhaps sooner, rather than latter, the world will be in massive economic, political, and spiritual chaos and a leader will step on to the world stage and this anti-Christ will call for the religions of the world to unite and embrace spirituality. He will declare that he is not about politics but about bringing peace, unity, faith, hope, charity, stability, freedom, and prosperity under the common god of all religions. This world leader will perform counterfeit miracles signs and wonders and those who reject Biblical truth will follow him [2 Thessalonians 2:9-12] and embrace his plan for restoring honor.

If I had told you five years ago that a "conservative" radio and TV personality would have millions of viewers, would talk about the spiritual battle being waged in America, would be a self-confessed member of a cult, would quote New Age phrases, would call for Christians and conservatives to look to the "one god", would seek to unite all faiths and would convince dozens of evangelical pastors and leaders to support him in a spiritual service-you would say I was writing fiction and that this would never happen.

Do you now understand the magnitude of the spiritual shift that occurred this past weekend? The millions that see nothing wrong with the messages of Beck's 8-27 and 8-28 rallies reveal that the religious left and the religious right will be easily merged together in the coming one world religion under the coming one-world spiritual leader as prophesied in Revelation 17:8.

Ephesians 5:11 commands all Christians to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." That is exactly what we have done and will continue to do in spite of e-mails and voice messages that are filled with cursing and insults. Our response must simply be, "Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" [Galatians 4:16]

"Ephesians 5:11 commands all Christians to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." That is exactly what we have done and will continue to do in spite of e-mails and voice messages that are filled with cursing and insults. Our response must simply be, "Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" [Galatians 4:16]

Amen..........brother Frank

OK, but in fairness (and all meekness and love), let's not also confuse "love" or "spirituality" with compromise either. The Lord is pretty clear what his thoughts on compromise, "mixture", fellowshipping with darkness, making covenants with those who worship other gods, etc. Story of Agag mean anything to anyone spiritually in the new covenant? I went through my years of "striking the rock in anger". Grace saving me in my own failures after that opened my eyes to the breath and scope of His love, grace, & mercy. But, I always knew that false is false and shouldn't be allowed to use His name in vain. Isn't the "abomination which causes desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel" when that which isn't from God (from Satan) "stands in the holy place claiming to be God"? I think Art Katz said it best once when he said that "Love without truth is really just sentimentality. Truth without love is just really brutality."

Brother Jimmy,
Dude, I think you may not want to see it, but it is there nonetheless. He called together 200 people "of different cloths" to stand arm in arm and "seek the one common god" together. That included Catholic priests, Muslim Imams, etc. His focus has shifted tremendously & if you didn't feel "attached" to your thoughts from years of watching/listening to him, you would have no trouble seeing it. You can't miss it if you watch the nature of his event and his own thoughts about it. I have watched his show pretty "religiously" for over a year. What I sense in my spirit, and is confirmed when recent actions are stood up to scripture, is that the enemy is capitalizing on his position and it will be used against the bride. How could he even prevent it? He is lost in a satanic cult called Mormonism. Is his research staff as good a "crack news research staff" out there? I think so. That's why I watched before. Something changed recently. The same change I sensed the day George Bush said (after 9/11) that we all "worship the same god" (muslims and christians). This deception is more sinister and deceptive than anything Beck calls out on his show about "the left". They are all lost. That is why my heart will be set like a flint towards the Kingdom of Heaven, not those of this world, & I will set my face like a flint to "have nothing to do with their deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Not to grandstand, but to be a watchman as God has called me to.

While I think "true discerning followers" of Jesus will not fall for ecumenicallism, the warning is not without reason. Just go to GlennBeck.com/insiderextreme and watch the entire thing for yourself. I watched his Sunday interview with Chris Wallace on Fox as well as his show over the last couple of days. I am not telling you what I heard someone is saying he said, but what he said out of his own mouth. I wouldn't scrutinize his message purely on hearsay. That's gossip. Everyone here is acting like they know exactly what he said and didn't say. Well, did you watch the actual event? Did you watch Beck's interview on Sunday? Did you watch Beck's show Monday & Tuesday? I did all of the above. I have listened to the man's words myself. What is the point in getting 200 "men of the cloth" to unite "arm in arm" (literally)in "faith" and in "prayer" to god when they are from Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, & varying denominational sects of Christianity? C'mon, I'm not using a "hair trigger" here, but it doesn't take the gift of discernment (but it does help) to see that this is dangerous. When he was purely political, that was one thing (good or bad debatable on seperate grounds), but this "divine destiny" of "locking arms" with cults and false religions to "seek god together" is poisonous. In love, we must be able to call a spade a spade. Something is deceptively wrong here. Why don't you all then go to your local Mosque, Mormon temple, and/or Catholic Cathedral to stand in the pulpit with priests, Imams, & the like to pray together for America? I say this is meekness and with a broken heart - have we lost all discernment in this country? God help us and expose this evil for what it is - a call to covenant with the enemy. Lord forgive me of my shortcomings in communicating this, & let us see clearly as you see things by your Spirit. Halelujah, praise be to our Lord!!!

This whole thing with Glenn Beck (who many of you know I really like) is very very deceptive and dangerous, and true believers need to stay far away from it.

Krispy

Jeff writes.........

"I am not telling you what I heard someone is saying he said, but what he said out of his own mouth. I wouldn't scrutinize his message purely on hearsay. That's gossip."

And Krispy writes.......

"This whole thing with Glenn Beck (who many of you know I really like) is very very deceptive and dangerous, and true believers need to stay far away from it."

Amen. It was announced on his show on Monday that the rally was the beginning of the third great awakening. Like Jeff said, these are his words, not what people " think,' he means, or strange theories, simply his words. As Krispy says.........beware ............Frank

Much of what he shows people in terms of the treasury, economics, socialist ties of govt. officials, etc. is right on. BUT, what he is spending much of his time, energy, effort, "rally" on now, he himself is touting as "spiritual, not political". AS for the attempt to analogize the story of the good samaritan with allowing a false teacher from a false religion unite on false terms without warning the Body - I probably shouldn't say much, lest it come out wrong. The story of the good Samaritan was not the story of the "good false prophet/teacher". That was such a "shoe-string" argumnet, I truly hope you don't see that as an equivalent. Before I was born again, I was a bit of a debate champion, a minor in philosophy & logic, so I don't want my flesh to get in the way of love and speaking in humility. No offense at all intended, but that's not a good parallel analogy or basis for your argument at all. Why were Paul, Jesus, Peter, Jude, etc. so strong in their speach against false teaching/teachers? The story of the good samaritan didn't end with the samaritan teaching the victim false teaching and him lapping it up like water because of a kind act. It's not the story of the "good Baal worshipper" who then unites arm in arm and prays together for "god" (pick a god, any god) to save their country. I think we muddy the waters sometimes because we are so intent on proving a point. I have done it more than a time or two & pray God keeps me from it even now. To call that a "stretch" is, in all love and concern, the understatement of the day. Can anyone call a spade a spade anymore in the church in love and humility without being "an angry watchman" or a "fearful, spineless compromiser"? I am going to likely bow out now for good, but just note it in your heart/mind that something is in the works on a grand scale in the spiritual realm here, and we will see a major impact from this in the days ahead. Remember these things, pray about them, and seek the mind of THE LORD GOD of heaven and earth, His Holy Spirit, & the King of Kings on such things. My heart is clear. God Bless you all!!!
pride, but without compromise?

" I think we muddy the waters sometimes because we are so intent on proving a point. I have done it more than a time or two & pray God keeps me from it even now. To call that a "stretch" is, in all love and concern, the understatement of the day."

Amen brother. Thanks for sharing Jeff........brother Frank

President Bush claimed to be a follower of Jesus Christ -- and I feel no more qualified to render a judgment on the validity of that claim than I feel qualified to render a judgment on any other public figure. After all, there are members here on SermonIndex who will just as quickly dismiss ministers (*like Charles Finney, etc...) based upon what they think is a fruitful examination of the "big picture." Still, I can't help but wonder if those things are exactly what we are called to do as believers -- whether we are "watchmen," "prophets" of just simple lovers of Jesus. I think that it is far more beneficial to point out the problem itself than the heart of the man.

Hello, Chris.

I haven't been around SI for a while, but from this post I see you haven't changed much as far as your thinking and attitude go.

First, you may not feel qualified to pass judgment on the man, but this is [i]your[/i] problem. If you yourself don't see, please don't pass judgment on people who have seen.

The Lord Jesus taught that "by their fruit you shall know them." If the fruit is bad, consistently, then the tree is bad, surely. By playing the "Do not judge" card, you are actually judging the Lord Himself, because He commanded "judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). If you are a "lover of Jesus", as you have claimed, you would keep His commandments. Hiding behind things like "you don't know the heart of the man" won't do, because it is [i]the fruit[/i] that you are called to judge, not the heart. These fruit, however, (in this case a man's public confession) do proceed from his heart and help the man of understanding discern who he is dealing with (whether this is Glenn Beck or George W. Bush).

I guess that this is what I feel about Glenn Beck. I certainly don't agree with the cult of Mormonism. It is a false gospel born in Hell itself. However, this doesn't mean that all Mormons are wrong in EVERY issue. ... There are some things that are just "true" -- regardless of who says it. I applaud anyone -- whether believer or unbeliever --

Here the question is not whether there isn't some truth in Mormonism or in man, but about believers in Christ being [u]yoked together with idolaters[/u] in this movement. What does light have to do with darkness? It is one thing to accept the advice of an unbeliever if it is according to the Truth, but a whole another thing to join arms with him in an ungodly agenda. There is something quite odd and disturbing in the fact that in word you claim that "Religious ecumenicism is wrong"; yet, you are unable to notice the apparent move toward ecumenicism in these men's actions.

P.S. I myself have watched some quite reasonable political arguments Mr. Beck has made on television and applauded the man on them (I didn't know that he was a Mormon). It is rare to see a clear thinking and reasonable and truth-telling individual on TV these days. What disturbed me though was that would speak like this on FOX, which is owned by a member of the church of one-world religion advocate, Rick Warren. So I asked myself, "Why would they allow him to speak this way, if this weren't consistent with their agenda?"

It is clear from what jeffmar has posted, I had sensed correctly that there was something going on. And as I see it, the goal is the leading astray of the elect (if it were possible), by alluring them with some just and reasonable anti-socialist arguments into the snare of the ecumenical agenda. Would Christians join arms with people like Glenn Beck (remember, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light) in order to get a temporary "cut on lawlessness" in America, or would they consent for nothing less than the coming Kingdom of Heaven?

An interesting can of worms: Glenn Beck advocates tithing....

Wierd...Jesus doesn't advocate tithing.

I'm just saying. :)

(however, that's for another discussion)

I think Glen Beck is totally being used by God. It is very evident that he is by the comments on this thread and by seeing how Christians as a whole respond to him. He is certainly being used to see if Christians have enough discernment and love the word of God enough to see through what Beck is promoting. He is being used to see if Christians will through their hat in the ring with an ecumenical uniter under some ambiguous God (or whatever Jesus you want to believe in) to work together to "reclaim" our country.

I really see it as a great diversion and materful plan (by the devil) to derail Christians from their focus on God's Kingdom and to shift their focus to one where politics is the answer. Beck may be calling this country back to God (letting you define God yourself) but the ultimate goal is to inspire people to bring about politcal change.

May the Lord bring Beck to true saving faith in Jesus Christ where he might be used as a vessel of honor to bring true glory to God.

"First, you may not feel qualified to pass judgment on the man, but this is [i]your[/i] problem. If you yourself don't see, please don't pass judgment on people who have seen"

Amen brother..........brother Frank

The story of the good samaritan didn't end with the samaritan teaching the victim false teaching and him lapping it up like water because of a kind act.

I am not defending Brother KingJimmy’s example. However, I need to question this “false teaching” allegation. Did Glenn Beck stand up and begin teaching false doctrine? I didn’t see that. I saw him telling people – regardless of their doctrinal, denominational or religious background – to consider spiritual matters. I hear good Christian pastors, missionaries and evangelists say something similar to this all of the time. While I definitely oppose the damnable tenants of Mormonism, I still don’t find anything wrong with this statement in and of itself.

Do you find anything wrong with Anton Levay (high preist of the satanic church) getting up and telling people to consider spiritual matters? What about if Alleister Crowley (author of the satanic bible & founder of the church of satan)got up, asked all of the different church leaders from all of the religions to put aside their differences and seek god together for a spiritual awakening in America before we lose our freedoms? Would that be a problem for you? I like much of Glenn Beck's research & showing truth of political deception. I pray that he would genuinely see the error of his way, see his sin as exceedingly sinful, repent, & be born again. This is not a personal attack against Glenn Beck. He doesn't realize he is deceived. If he did, then he wouldn't be deceived. That's why it's called "deception". It's tricky like that. The Lord may be allowing this person in particular to lead "the right" to find out who is more "patriotic" than "born from above". I'm telling you that it smells bad and it's gonna rot. Don't swallow it down without taking it to God in prayer. I believe he himself put this rally together. I believe he himself called all these "people of different cloths" together to unite arm in arm and seek god together. OK, if he isn't a "false teacher", then he is definitely promoting a false spirituality. What then would that make him? A "false promoter". I hope he gets saved and has a radical testimony and change (say good-bye to Fox & the spotlight), I really do. His apparent "heart for the truth" is what christians like, but if there is really "no truth in him", then he can't touch on spiritual issues and not be false, can he? I hear Spike Lee say, "Do the right thing" just like true shephards say (in similiar words anyways), but aren't they really saying different things? Glenn Beck's salvation for America says, "stand up together, regardless of your religion, remember the founders, read the constitution, resist the tyrannical government, you can save America"
Christ's salvation for America says, "stand up Body of Christ, preach the Gospel, love thy neighbor, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, & strength, remember the foundations built on the apostles with Christ as the chief cornerstone, read and obey the Word of God, submit to the governing authority which God Himself instituted, only Christ in His mercy can save America & it's all ultimately going to be burnt up & a new heaven and new earth created for those in the Kingdom"
My heart's intent isn't to "be right" or "prove a point", just to say prophetically something is happening which is beginning to take form here. Keep your eye on it, your heart open to the Lord, your foundation on the Word of God alone, & don't accept "Unity through compromise".

HEADLINE:

"One Year Later, A Presidency, Triumphant."

One year after President Beck stood in the chill January air of Washington DC, delievering what many have said, was his finest hour of national rhetoric. A speech that was the balm that soothed a nation in transition. A nation reeling from the effects of the Greater Depression, the newly sworn in President promised to heal the wounds of "an America gone tragically adrift into a world of fear and cyncism".

One year later, the President was expansive and confident, as he spoke with this reporter, passionate, using his mobile hands for emphasis, President Beck was satisfied that the National Christian Party, the insurgent party formed from the ashes of the Republican Party, using the rank and file operatives of the Tea Party, was "stronger than ever, getting stronger every day, and in the final analysis, it wasn't just an election, God blessed the national Christian Party, just as He will bless the National Christian Church".

"One can't view the National Christian Party as seperate from the National Christian Church, they are one and the same. It all stemed from the idea, that America and her people needed to embrace God at a time of confusion and suffering. Which is why I attributed it all to the Wisdom of God, by putting needless sectarian and denominational differences aside".

The President was referring to, what is now known as the "Great Reconcilliation", when prominent Evangelical leaders gathered with Mormon officials, and after a series of meetings, agreed that the Mormonism was not incapatible with the Protestant denominations and doctrine, that they all worshiped the same God, and should, in this time of crisis, join together to form a national church.

Inevitably, there was friction as a portion of Evangelicals pushed back, and maintained that undue pressure and influence came from the Mormons that sat accross the table from them, but with the President using his early currency, eventually the agreement known as the "Great Reconcilliation" was signed, by over 100 prominent Evangelical and Mormon leaders, leading to the formation of the National Christian Church.

"but it couldnt have been done without the party", the President said, the familiar infectious grin playing across his face, "The National christian Party is the whole ballgame, binding together a nation of morals under God, under this proud flag of a nation that was born of God and continued and blessed by God".

"There will always be complainers, there will always be that secular liberalism that denies God, but when the people spoke, many of these liberals realized they were on the wrong side of history, and God woke them up. And if they don't realize this fact now, sooner or later, whether by God's will, or the pressure of the people, Americans will realize that the only true party is the National Christian Party and the only true church is the National Christian Church". If an American truly walks with God, he or she will realize God blessed America with the Party, and will walk in submission to the Party and the national Church. To do otherwise, would be in rebellion to God, and rebellion to God is rebellion to the nation, its as simple as that."

The President spoke enthusiastically about his upcoming meeting in Washington with the Pope and vatican officials, as rumours abound that the Vatican seeks to be included in the "Great Reconcilliation", "For too many centuries Catholics and Protestants have been at odds with petty doctrinal differences, I'm confident that dark period will soon end", and we can welcome our Catholic brothers and sisters into the National Christian Church".

President Beck leaves for Camp David with Vice President Bachmann and her family for their monthly weekend prayer meetings.

Just three days after President Beck and Vice President Bachmen met at Camp David, the unthinkable happened. Who could have ever imagined that we would witness something beyond the horror of 9/11? And yet it has just been a week since the multiple bombings. The reports coming in suggest that the final death toll in New York may reach 50,000. Looting has been widespread and fires are burning all over the city since, what experts now tell us, the explosion a a " suitcase,' nuclear bomb. It seems likely that this bomb, as with the other four, originated in Russia and made its way onto the black market.

London is reeling from their own death toll, now put at over 100,000. St Paul's Cathedral was completely destroyed in the blast and they are seeing the same looting problems as we are seeing. Paris, Moscow and Beijing have fared no better. While each of these countries are scrambling to en-act and enforce Marshall law, there is a planned meeting of world leaders in just three days in Washington.
President Beck has been reported as saying that this is a paradigm shift. When asked by White house reporters what was going to happen now, White house spokesman Sean Hannity said that the final details were not in place yet, but that there were plans in the works to be able to track and identify every legitimate citizen from all the countries of the world. He said that while the Muslim fundamentalists had brought the world to their knees , it had also brought about a unique unity amongst every government in the world. He said that the President believed, and that this belief was shared by every single leader in the West and the East, that the time had come to strike a death blow to radical religious haters.

He was quick to point out that, while they knew that it was Muslim terrorists that had carried out these evil acts , that the time had come to put a stop to all those who sow division and hatred by denying and claiming that their " God,' was the true God. " These haters," he said," are part of the problem that led to the horror we witnessed last week." Legislation is already working its way through congress, and seems to have unanimous support, to outlaw any kind of " exclusivity," speech. This would now be considered a hate crime carrying the most severe penalty.

On the security issue, when asked about the chips that were now going to be required to be placed in the arm of every citizen, Hannity said that no reasonable person could argue against the logic of such a move in light of the horror that we had all just witnessed. On the larger question of security, in regard to the Nuclear issue, he said that there was a " remarkable,' willingness by all the major players in the world, to give up their nuclear weapons. The five countries that were devastated last week were now remarkably willing to enter into serious and speedy talks in order to rid the world, finally, of these horrendous weapons.

The one cloud over this issue seems to be Israel. She has always claimed not to have any nuclear weapons, but it is an open secret that she does. When pushed on this point, Hannity said that there would definitely be a coalition of the willing, such as never been seen before, in fact he was even went as far to say that every nation on the planet has indicated that they support the five main nuclear countries on this issue. He said that he was very confident, that when Israel saw that every nation in the world was standing in lockstep, then they would join with the rest of us. "After all." he said " who would want every nation of the world coming against them."
When the Israeli ambassador was asked for a comment , he said that Israel maintained its long held position that they did not have weapons of mass destruction.

Chris,

I do not care about you being convinced by the truth. Because if you loved the truth, you won't need to be flooding this thread with meaningless, political correctness. You would be able to separate the clean from the unclean, the true from the false, and not sit back and say, "There is not enough evidence for me the judge." Yes, Chris, there is plenty of evidence on Rick Warren and on Glenn Beck to prove the points that are made in the article posted, but there is very little if any sincerity in YOU to seek and accept them. How is it that you always bend the facts in your favor, so you can proclaim eventually that nothing is certain. Even though you "stick" to the tenets of Christianity in word, you're an enemy of the truth, because all the time you defend falsehood, and cannot be convinced that you are doing it.

See, I don't care about what you think, Chris. I care about the truth of the matter. If you don't understand and do not want to enter, at least don't get in the way of others with your writing.

Yet, what FRUIT are we speaking about here? I am not speaking about any sort of "fruit" in Glenn Beck. I am not analyzing his life by the little amount of supposed information or knowledge that you or I have regarding his life. I am not analyzing Mormonism -- because I already know that to be a cult.

Are the public statements this man has made no fruit? "Little amount of supposed information"--can a Christian write like this, one who is supposed to be led into all truth and nothing less? Chris, you clearly REFUSE to see the obvious here. And again you hide behind the "I know Mormonism to be a cult" statement. However, it is nonessential whether you believe this or not really, because if you endorse or don't expose and stand up against the leading astray of the people of God by satanists/mormons, then you are in the same boat with Mormons, supporting their agenda. Regardless of what you supposedly believe about them. The "works" of your faith are not present, and I am not impressed by words, even by "a multitude of words".

ALL that some of us are saying is that it is possible for God to use ANYTHING -- including an unbelieving man like Glenn Beck -- to incite people one way or the other.

It is possible for God to use anything for good. However, I see Him using false prophets and leaders for judgment upon the backslidden, for condemnation. IN fact, false prophets and leaders are exposed and condemned by the men of God in all Scripture. I have never seen Elijah or Isaiah say, "Oh, surely the Lord can use this heretic to draw people to Himself." This is twisting of the truth here. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin and only God can draw people to Himself. He doesn't need people like Glenn Beck to do so. If somebody thirsts after righteousness and truth, he shall find and be filled. If he doesn't seek truth, he will not find it--with or without promptings to consider "spiritual matters".

Do you think that this was an attempt at religious ecumenicism? Why? What specific things did Beck say that make you think this?

You reread the article again, Chris. Do your research. It is certainly not the encouragement for people to consider "spirituality" that we are talking about (even though this too is part of the picture).

"I like what Natan for Jesus posted and there is a good does of reality check there for you. Trouble is that still too many in the USA confuse the Kingdom of God for the Kingdom of America.:) We lost that concept over here a long while ago. I would rather have a Godly minority than a religious (moral) majority." amen!

by Areadymind on 2010/9/1 22:44:50

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace." -Ephesians 4:1-3

AMEN!AMEN!AMEN!AMEN!!!!! Be careful yielders of the sword of the truth. Remember, when God told Moses to speak to the rock and he did in fear & trembling, water came forth & God was pleased. However, when later Moses struck the rock in anger (& presumption/pride), water may still come forth, but the Lord was not pleased with Moses. I speak from experience/failure, & the Lord humbled me greatly in His mercy & grace. Consider these things carefully, especially those who appear to have a strong prophetic gifting to proclaim the truth. Again, to Katz' quote:
"Love without truth is really just 'sentimentality'.
Truth without love is really just 'brutality'."
Neither scenario is acceptable before God. It's speak the TRUTH in LOVE. Not either/or. Both. God bless.

"hi, tonight glen said ...do not put your faith in gold but put it in God...how horrible.jimp btw shut up and pray for him and the president for they need the prayers and you need the practice."

Yea...the Hindu's say that too. Of course their God looks like an elephant and has 4 arms. So..just put your faith in God...it will all work out.

http://www.worldreligionsprints.com/images/M/MHI111D12.jpg

The American Dream, Capitalism and Prosperity have been interposed as God's blessings. The Bible makes it clear that every time this happened with Israel, they forgot God, as Jesus makes it clear to Laodicea; Blind, miserable, and wretched. We have become drunken with our own narcissism, opiated with immoral permissiveness thinly veiled as liberty.

Glen Beck and Obama our chewing on the same rope; each from another end, for Satan burns it from both ends, masquerading his intentions to capture the unsuspecting. Those on Obama's end see the American dream with expectations of entitlement; provision of lands, a home, health care and basic care for theirs, [Marxism], while Beck's devotees see themselves as independent agents to gather even more, and the more the better.[ Capitalism]

Intermingled within both camps is a "DO AS YOU WILL", mentality, that gaurantees the rights of an American. Both camps are Godless, bereft of the One who deserves true honor, Jesus of Nazareth, and His Holy Spirit.

Beware; Do not be sucked in by either...but remember that your citizenship is in Heaven. You are a subject to another King, another government. It is upon One persons shoulders.

I counsel you to remove yourself from politics. Pray for those in authority, that God would prosper His Kingdom, and His church in the middle of the great apostasy we are witnessing. It is very, very sad, but God IS in the center of this; but to bring judgment, and wrath upon America, for her many sins, arrogance, and stubborness to repent.

The anti-Christ spirit is the thing prospering right now; that is visible. The hidden prospering is in the heart of hundreds of thousands of humble, and disciplined ones who love Jesus, that are the promised Bride, who has made herself ready. Prepare your hearts, to love Jesus with everything, lest in the day of trouble, you find that you cannot discover any oil of the Spirit to anoint your head, though you understand all the politics of men. Become a wise virgin.

Very well put, Brotherton!!

One thing stood out that you said:
"Intermingled within both camps is a "DO AS YOU WILL", mentality, that gaurantees the rights of an American. Both camps are Godless, bereft of the One who deserves true honor, Jesus of Nazareth, and His Holy Spirit."

That is the "Golden Rule" of the Satanic Bible and the whole premise of Satan from the garden of Eden: "Do as thou wilt". It is a way to say "you will be like God, knowing good and evil" as a temptation to man's heart which in it's sinful state desires nothing more than to "create your own destiny". It is the absolute antithesis to the message focus of the true "Golden Rule" in loving God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. More specifically, it is the opposite of the message of the cross. Not just the one Jesus hung on, but the one you must also carry and identify to truly be His disciple!!!

I usually highlight the part that I like and amen it, but I think Brothertoms comment was so on the money. It is clear that there is something going on in the spiritual and many can " see," it........brother Frank

Without getting into all the rhetoric on this thread... I will say it again: Beck is a cultist.

If you want to listen to just his politic ideas thats one thing, altho anyone who truly understands Mormonism can see it's influence in many of his political ideas... but when a cultist reaches out and joins hands with evangelicals... thats dangerous ground.

We all know it, and that can't be argued against.

Shame on those who call themselves "Christians" and are yet so ignorant of the things of God, and of scripture and join with a Mormon in this evil ecumenism.

There is no common "one" god. That is beyond Mormonism... thats universalism.

What some so-called Christians are doing by joining with Beck on this supposed "spiritual awakening" is SINNING. And it's interesting that one of the signs of the last days will be a great "falling away". We're seeing it in many other areas, but this one has the potential to be HUGE... led by a Mormon pied piper who many evangelical Christians will follow.

I challenge one person to show me where this thing that Beck is doing is Biblical for Christians to be involved in.

You can't...

Krispy

Krispy

Krispy writes........

"I challenge one person to show me where this thing that Beck is doing is Biblical for Christians to be involved in.

You can't..."

Amen brother. What is refreshing and encouraging to me, is that despite disagreements that I have had with Krispy and Brothertom over the years, on these, the biggest of issues, we are of one heart. I thank God for mature brothers and sisters in Christ.........brother Frank

One more thing worth noting with all of the talk of God speaking through donkies & false prophets. Can He? Yes. But it is WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY SAYING that is from God or Satan. Not the vessell, but the message. In fact, Satan can speak through a disciple of Christ. What, you say? Peter one minute is saying, "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," as he is enlightened from the Father. Next breath, He is opposing the cross & Jesus is telling Satan (through Peter) to get behind him!!! So, can a false prophet (or even a donkey) speak for God? Yes, the fruit of their message tells us the source of the tree. So, God tells the donkey to speak up and shock the prophet who refuses to see the Lord preventing him. If the donkey would have spoken up and told him to bow down and worship Baal, it would have been demonic, not the Lord.What tells us how to discern the source? The Message!! We will know them by their fruit. The fruit of their lips tells us alot.
If Beck stood up and said a message that was from God, then it could be examined for a source. But, when he stands up and asks leaders from all religions to stand arm in arm, put aside all differences, pray to God for another great awakening in America - the Lord never called the Israelites (or the bride) to link up with the satanic cults and false religions and put aside all our differences to pray to God together. He asked us to "come out from among them, and be ye seperate and I will accept you". "Have no fellowship with the deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." He actually said that if we "allow false teachers into our house, we are partakers with them in their evil deeds." But we think our "love" is greater than God's? We understand something apparently God Himself doesn't understand? There are more warnings of false teachers (and yes, Imams, Catholic Priests, Mormons, etc. qualify for that description) in the NT than anything.
I love my 5 children and don't desire to yell at them (although I have been guilty before and pray for grace to give me wisdom not to feel that I have to - 5 small kids will test you for what's really inside you sometimes, I promise). BUT, if my 3 year old is running towards the street with moving cars coming - I yell very loudly because I love him. I spank him harder than at any other time if he doesn't listen and mind, because HIS VERY LIFE IS AT STAKE!! Same is true with false teachers & false movements. The "just love them" crowd can be like those parents who are always saying, "one, two, three". I heard a testimony of a lady who did that with her kids. They never felt they had to listen till she got to three, so they looked back, laughed, & continued on looking back, laughing in rebellion through one and two. She thought that was more loving than strong, tough discipline, spanking, and the like. Well, her little one wondered towards the road one day & she saw a car zooming down the street. She said stop, but the child kept looking back and running forward waiting for the countdown. The child got ran over and killed before that could happen.
That is how I see false teaching and false movements. AS my friend Andrew says, "don't muck around with it, cause it'll kill ya". If there wasn't something wrong here, I wouldn't be arguing for the sake of arguing. In my earlier years, I might have been subject to that more, but I am pleading with the Bride to be aware - something is developing here that isn't from heaven. Don't buy it or put your trust in political movements. The Lord is coming back soon, so let's focus on having lamps full of oil and trimmed for the call of the groom!!! It's a message as much for me as anyone else. Maybe more. God bless!!

Thank you, appolus... I agree with you. We can disagree on matters that dont mean much, but on the basics of the faith we have unity.

Love ya, bro...

Krispy

my brother, ..with me at least, you never have to feel the need to defend your viewpoint...never! i might disagree with you, but so what? thats FREEDOM, and i say LET FREEDOM REIGN!!!

as i see it, there is a component to this FREEDOM, that is missing, and that is the LISTENING part. (i'm speaking of the national landscape, not this forum)

somebody doesnt agree with me, or somebody has a beef, i WANT to listen to the fellow, and that includes you, includes Jimmy, includes anyone in my life.

speak and fear not.

But the trouble in these dark times, in the filthy arena that politics has become, is NOBODY really wants to listen to the other fellow anymore, its too much fun to try and shout over him or her, in that nasty race to be "right".(thats why all those filthy radio talk shows get the ratings, people LOVE the combat, the adrenalin rush, its sinful)

shouting, arguing, bitterness, outright hatred or resentment, both sides of the aisle have worked overtime to cast the other as demons, or unamerican, unpatriotic.

and you know Brother Tom is right, he said 'get out of politics', wise words and a powerful post. annointed.

because its not going to get better. oh no, its going to get much worse. people's hearts are dark, they quest after power and money, the lot of 'em, wouldnt think twice to use "religion", use the innocent trust of the saints, to gain advantage in the political arena.

Chris, thats why i wrote that fictional "non-fiction news article" back in this thread, i wasnt try to be "sarcastic" as you termed it. i was just writing about what i see in the future; meaning i would not doubt if power hungry, money hungry elements of the "evangelical" Church, made nice with the mormons, or papa in rome, to craft a "christian" political party with an attached "national church". (that might be the "beast, i dont know)

this is the stuff i see, and one night off the top of my head, wrote an article about a year into the "Beck administration", along with a reference to the "National Christian Party", and the "Great Reconciliation", etc etc. i wasn't trying to be sarcastic, my brother, quite the contrary.

i never wanted this whole beck thing to be a subject of contention here. No. i told Jimmy, i disagree with you. if you see it that way, okay. i don't see this whole thing being anything but BAD NEWS.

However, you, i, WE, know the Good News, and That is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Ressurrected, with the Blood that cleanses all sin. and i'm a Now Day saint, a today saint, aint no latter day saint. i dont kiss the ring of any man of perdition that calls himself the "vicar of christ', the pope, he that lives in rome, and commits the unpardonable sin by having folks call him, "holy father".

Brother Tom is totally and absolutely correct in everything he wrote in that last post of his on this thread, THERE, in that post is the fruit.

i never thought anything bad about you Chris, you're Blood bought, along with these dear saints that post on this forum.

amen, in Jesus love, neil

I don't know if certain previous comments were directed to me (or about me) or not, but I feel the need to state just a few things:
1.) I love everyone of my fellow true brethren on this site & my need to speak up here stems from this love.
2.) I know some people are "angry watchman", but anyone who knows me in real life (not just on a forum) knows that's not me, my heart is for the church & the lost.
3.) There are different gifts in the Body and different callings, while still being of the same Spirit with the same Lord of all. If that's a problem for anyone, they would have to throw out much of I Corinthians, Romans, & several other books in the NT.
4.) I also have been around here for several years. However, you can see I don't post alot. Do I have opinions? Yes. Do I have input sometimes? Yes. I try to only take the time to post when something is burning within me. So, I don't think it should necessarily make someone "less credible" because they talk less. If I am talking too much, like I fear I might be now, then that should affect credibility if anything.
5.) I believe this is important & the Lord wants His bride to see what is going on here, else I would say NOTHING! Forum threads deliniate into hurt feelings, misunderstandings, etc. by nature cause you can't always see tone and heart in written words. My heart is clear. i pray blessings for all of you. Be careful with this movement in particular. That's all.

many many many blessings to you too, dear bother.

neil

couldn't we of said the same thing of Kenneth Copeland, Todd Bentley, Joel Osteen, Joseph Smith, etc.? Lots came of them & thier "ministries", but were they speaking for God?
I'm just saying....
Numbers don't equate to "from God". The Spirit of the Antichrist will have FAR more followers than the last day Body of Christ ("Broad is the path......MANY there be thereon......but narrow is the path that leads to life.....and FEW there be that find it")
I'm not saying Beck is the antichrist, so don't twist that, but I am saying that many things that aren't from God appear to be HUGE in this world, and many of the missionaries we read about today were hardly known at all on this earth......but they were known in heaven & hell. Leonard Ravenhill wasn't a monk hiding in a cave somewhere that noone knew (I know people here in ministry in Texas who knew him), but he wasn't ANYWHERE NEAR known worldwide when he was alive from what I understand. The Lord has used the fruit he bore much more after his death than in his life. That quote in the last post was a specific quote for a specific instance. Don't know that is fair to use as a "plumb-line" rule of thumb in general for all situations. Especially in the deceptive last days in which we live. Ya know? God Bless - Jeff

savannah took me to the 'woodshed' too, in a prior post and i think he's right, his rebuke is correct.

this whole situation is just terrible, and my part of the "ezra" post is just bad. we're joking about,we should be doubling down in prayer time, we should take this ALL, as a very serious sign, that God's Judgement is near.

the sooner we all stop focusing on this glen back situation and get back to Fundamentals, the better.

if we're wise, or teachable, we should take savannah's rebuke for what it is...love.

this IS my last post on any glen beck thread, lets just quit this...what say?

In Jesus' love, neil

I have to laugh a little when people get heated... and then end their post with "I will refrain from saying more"... and then they write more... and end THAT one with "I will refrain from saying more"...

Let your yay be yay and your nay be nay. Be a man/woman of your word and "refrain from saying more". Otherwise you make yourself a liar.

Krispy

Let me start by saying it is sad that forum threads deliniate into all this, but it is generally for the same reasons. It is sad that we can't discuss these matters without 2 groups of people forming:
1.) the insensitive who swing a heavy harsh rebuke sword with no apparent concern for love (usually just a sign of immaturity in our walk that God grows us out of through His mercy over time). Often A form of pride we don't see in ourselves.
2.) the uber-sensitive who are so touchy-feely about others disagreeing with them that they can't reslly be disagreed with and they never really stop to re-examine with a clear heart and see if they might be blind to something. They are far more "hurt" that anyone would speak directly against what they said/think. A form of "the fear of man" and being bound by "the praise of men" (their feelings only get hurt when people disagree with them). Rarely do people see it in themselves.
So, in all of this, the whole REAL POINT and original discussion get lost. This is why I NEVER feel led to get into discussions of disagreement among true believers concerning "Freewill vs. Soveriegnty", "Total Depravity", etc. I have opinions, but what's the point, especially on these forums, of disagreeing and not even truly knowing the lives REALLY lived out day by day by the posters?
This matter, however, I felt led to speak up on because it isn't some minor "doctrinal issue" (I know, noone ever thinks what they are vigorously debating is minor, but I mean this affects your walk, discernment, openness to the beast in the last days, etc.).
This is evident that people get sidetracked when it is stated that:
"Let me ask, what will people think once the Lord calls Glenn Beck to the Kingdom? What happens when Glen Beck becomes a Christian, will we all repent?"
Completely missed the point. No, I will not repent for standing against a false movement IF/WHEN the leader/s repent of their falsehood & get born again!! Repent of what? Speaking out against a false movement like we are repeatedly commanded to do in scripture? No, I will not repent. I will rejoice with the angels of heaven that a sinner has come to repentance!! But, that won't then make the "prior life" of a false movement justified, will it?
When Saul of Tarsus became Paul, did that justify his previous religious life of murdering Christians? No!! It made God's grace be shown for exceedingly abundant mercy, but it didn't make his prior ministry "right". Do you think the believers in Jerusalem said, "man, he's really saved, we need to repent for speaking against Judaism and go back and listen to his teaching to see if there was something edifying we missed while we were running for our lives from him"? Of course not, because that "OLD MAN" of Saul was now dead, and a "NEW CREATION" is born in Christ named Paul!! Halelujah, praise be to our God!!
So, if Glenn Beck repents of his Mormonism, shows signs of true Biblical repentance, & starts denouncing his movement's embracing of locking arms with Judaizers, Mormons, Muslims, etc. & begins exalting the true Christ of the Bible - I won't repent. Repent for what? I will praise God and welcome him into the Kingdom!!! Repent for exposing the deeds of darkness and bringing correction and warning to sheep who are starting to heed the voice of wolves? God forbid if I should ever do that!
As C.T. Studd once said, we have gone from Christian Soldiers to little chocolate soldiers. Melting in the heat. "Sweeties". Does God speak to us through the actions/statements of unbelievers? Yes. Is God speaking through Glenn Beck trying to get us to all drop our religious differences and just lock arm in arm and pray to the same god? Yep, God is speaking through it, but he is not the one speaking it. Big Difference!! God is allowing it to test our hearts.
God is about to speak very loudly to the USA & the world through allowing evil men to have their way in this world for a season. But, when the antichrist spirit rises up and calls us all to drop our silly differences, will it be God speaking THROUGH them? NO!! It will be the very spirit of the serpent himself, that dragon, the devil. Will God be allowing it? Yes! Why, so we can all get "all mushy" and hug up together with the world in a false "love and unity"? No, to allow this to be our threshing floor to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
I hope Glenn Beck does repent and get born again. I hope many who are more dedicated to him and his message of (American Patriotism and Unity of Religions) than God and His word also repent and get born again. I hope some who are being swept away unawares by his message, though they be believers, see the error and repent. Why would I repent for lovingly telling God's people the truth and warning them out of a burning heart?
Do this, don't think of 5 points to come back and argue with me about what you think I am saying and not saying: take this matter to the Lord in prayer and see if He, by His Spirit, speak any of these matters to your heart to warn you. Don't anyone take anything I am saying personally. I don't really know any of you (apart from a few that don't comment much), so why take it personal? Apparently, we feel (by our actions, not so much in our words) that we are all above reprove, rebuke, correction, teaching, etc. Some act as if a non-believer like Beck is somehow above a public warning to believers to beware of the poison? That, to me, is amazing!!
If I say, "where has the discernment gone?" Well, some will think of the most brash, proud, & arrogant rebuke from an immature believer and "throw the baby out with the bathwater" as unloving. If I say, "where is the love?" The other extreme will go on a rant of "holding up the tower of truth" with no concern for mercy, love, and grace. THE TRUTH is really both. "Speak (1.) THE TRUTH (2.) IN LOVE".
I started this thread that morphed into all kinds of weird stuff, to tell you to watch out for this movement and take it to the Lord in prayer. It's subtle, appeals to our nationalistic pride, merges Christ with other gods and false christs, & I sense it is going further - especially when greater judgments come upon our land. If you want to defend Glenn Beck over heeding a burning message in which I struggle to find anything I have said that is contrary to God's Word and His nature, just ask yourself - WHY? Why do you feel compelled to do so? I am your brother. A wicked, wretched, violent addicted & perverted criminal who God radically changed and made new. I have spent years in ministry, overseas, on the streets, preaching, serving, studying God's Word, fasting and praying for revival, etc.
Glenn Beck is a politically focused Mormon cultist who seeks now to "unite leaders of all faiths" and my message appears to be rejected right off the bat & his swallowed up and defended vehemently. What's wrong with this picture? Is it not at least worth prayer, reflection, and looking to God's Word before we are so "quick to speak and slow to hear"?
Isn't that what the moderators request is about? "The site moderators ask you before you post that you consider PRAYING & asking the Lord if you have the right to serve others in the body of Christ before posting and pressing the submit button."?

Amen Jeff... good word. You are right on the money.

Mormonism is not the only cult at work here... among evangelical Christians the "cult of personality" is also at work. Or dare I say the "cult of Glenn Beck's personality". This "cult" can be seen when people defend their favorite TV preachers, etc. We see this "cult" rise up in folks whenever we discuss Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland... even obvious charlatans like Benny Hinn. People can't see beyond their own noses if their favorite "personality" is challenged in the slightest way.

Krispy

HI Guys,

Facinating thread. Its actually been a lot like many threads we have had on Sermon-index. Hopefully my lack of posting was noted :) In this thread we have all the usual elements of a contentious thread, of which I have been involved in many, as old timers around here would know.

There is much to be learned on this particular thread, not about the original post, but about the sanctification process. Now, I do not underplay the topic, which is highly significant for those of us who live in the States, those who do not probably think " there go those crazy Americans again.' :)

We are living in an age of crisis. There is a spiritual war going on and a cross-roads is speeding towards us. The crisis of the age is the low state of the " church," in the land. There is a reason that so many solemn assemblies have been called across the land. And by the way, there is also a reason that so many have been so poorly attended.

I have the deepest sympathy for the , at least, hundreds of pastors and leaders all over this country in all denominations who have been trying desperatly to call the church back, to restore the honor of God, to lift Him back into a place of reverence and honor and glory. It must be extremly galling for them to have to listen to people say that the only reason television celebrities can gather a crowd like that together is becuase the church is not doing it.That is a lie from the pit. God bless every Christian man and woman who gather every week, who pray every day, who travel great distances at cost to themselves and their families, for the sake of the calling that the Lord has put on their heart, revival of Gods people. I love them dearly and I especially love them, for what they do gets no fanfare, they would never dream of boasting and giving long lists of what they do for the Kingdom, they go about what they do quietly and without complaint. This is the Spirit of humility, a sweet and beautiful thing.

Here is my highlights of this thread which should be studied and seriously considerd by all, and they have came in the last few posts......... Quotes.........

"1.) the insensitive who swing a heavy harsh rebuke sword with no apparent concern for love (usually just a sign of immaturity in our walk that God grows us out of through His mercy over time). Often A form of pride we don't see in ourselves.

2. the uber-sensitive who are so touchy-feely about others disagreeing with them that they can't reslly be disagreed with and they never really stop to re-examine with a clear heart and see if they might be blind to something. They are far more "hurt" that anyone would speak directly against what they said/think. A form of "the fear of man" and being bound by "the praise of men" (their feelings only get hurt when people disagree with them). Rarely do people see it in themselves."

Boy that is some good teaching, all of us would do well to take this to heart and seriously reflect upon our own reactions.

Quotes............

"But seriously, there is no need for such abusive language. Not to exalt myself, but rest assured so you may not worry about me, but I am probably one of the most serious students of God's word you will probably ever meet. I've given my life for it, and it has cost me everything. Not that my sacrifices are anything special, for they are nothing compared to His precious worth. "

And finally.............

"savannah took me to the 'woodshed' too, in a prior post and i think he's right, his rebuke is correct.
If we're wise, or teachable, we should take savannah's rebuke for what it is...love."

Wow, I love that last quote. That statement or sentiment is , to me, the hieght of Christian maturity. He does not try to defend himself or qualify himself as a Christian, he merely takes the beating, so to speak. May the Lord bless all who want nothing more than to see Him glorified and lifted up, and may we only ever be found glorifying Him and Him alone. It is He who is exalted above all else. When the Church lifts Him up above their shoulders, when they elevate Him and Him alone above all of their circumstances, then we will see the river dry up and be able to move forward into the promised land. While they have yet a divided heart, while they have yet still one foot in the world and one in the church, they will continue to wander in the desert.........brother Frank

"a bad tree cannot bear good fruit"
What possible indicator/outcome would you possibly see that would tell you, "Yep, I told you Glenn Becks' message was from God! We do need to lock arms with all religions, put aside our differences, & just pray together"?
It depends on what people consider fruit. I know thisn't exactly the same, but for YEARS, I spoke out against the likes of the Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen's, Kenneth Copeland's, Todd Bentley's of the world and the like. Well-meaning (I think) People repeatedly gave me the response of "look at all the people being changed at their conferences and they are all holding up their hands and worshipping God & reading out of the Bible. Look at all that fruit."
But, since it wasn't based on THE TRUTH and born from heaven, it was not "GOOD" fruit. It looked good to the undiscerning. It took years for many truely regenerate believers to escape those movements. It was like that fruit in a bowl at a furniture store. It looks all nice and shiny. It actually looks better very often than real fruit. Not under-ripe or over-ripe. Then it doesn't pass the smell test. Try to take a bite unawares and you should catch-on. If you continue trying to chew up plastic, even the people at the furniture store will begin to look at you funny! :-) It's not REAL fruit.
God is using Glenn Beck to see who is truly discerning and who's heart is more nationalistic & religious than truly set on the Lord, His Word, & His Gospel. What are we waiting to see from his movement's results to determine what is already obvious from the message and the mingling of religions? I have seen what I need to see. If he changes, gets truly born again, bears fruit in keeping with repentance - that will change things. No other "results" from his movement will move me. That would be proverbial pragmatism. That's a dangerous approach to our discernment.

Also, just for the record - Jimmy didn't start this thread on the Cyrus analogy I believe (that was a seperate thread). I started this thread showing Beck's ecumenicallism, where it is apparently heading, and a awrning to avoid the dangerous pitfalls of such. I don't know what anyone here's political views are, nor does it matter (A BIG PIECE OF MY WHOLE POINT). For the record, my political leanings would be FAR more towards Beck and the right than the opposition to those views, but that proves my point even more that we need (me included) to be focused on the Kingdom of Heaven, less on those of this world, and discerning and not swallow the drop of poison in the glass of apparently refreshing water.

I should clarify: when I say my political views would lean more "right", I just mean first and foremost:
1.) I abhor the practice of abortion which is the same as it was (just in different form) in the days where ancient Israel offered their sons and daughters in the fire to Baal on the idol altars of Molech & Tophet.
Everything else becomes secondary to that for me. Not the point of my post, but I'm not just "cheering for 'my side' politically" and cloaking it in righteous clothes & scriptures. That should be said that this isn't a political post, but would be more "anti-political" than political.

Glenn Beck is a politically focused Mormon cultist who seeks now to "unite leaders of all faiths" and my message appears to be rejected right off the bat & his swallowed up and defended vehemently. What's wrong with this picture?

Dear jeffmar,

It is written, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Some will not listen, some will even try to stop their ears so they will not hear. Some the Lord Himself might have made dull of hearing, as it is written in Isaiah:

Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Every response speaks of the condition of the person who made it. So one should take notice and not assume that everyone who reads the message is Christ's. Until the day of the harvest there will be tares among the wheat. So don't get discouraged, but rather be as wise as a serpent in these serious times we live in. After all, what is your motivation to share what you have shared here? Is it unto the Lord and by the Lord, and through the Lord, or is it for the people?

Thanks Brother!! I Needed that!!

However, I simply agreed with one idea that he expressed: The people in America should consider spiritual matters.

You could have expressed it in one sentence, Chris.

But clearly you wanted more than this.

No believer should be accused of shutting their eyes, ears or heart to what others are saying. No one should be criticized simply for agreeing to a statement uttered by an unbeliever. No one here at SermonIndex should have their spiritual condition scrutinized by anyone based upon a misunderstanding of that person's true or underlying thoughts and beliefs. No one at SermonIndex should be accused of hiding some sinister motive behind their words.

Chris says. Because this is what Chris wants for himself (comfort). But none of it is biblical.

Accusing somebody of "shutting their eyes, ears or hearts to what others are saying" is wrong when it is not the truth. Accusing is not wrong in of itself, but can be wrong only in relation to reality (which you seem to forget).

The problem with your statements, Chris, is that they are man-centered, and thus distorting reality. Everything is subjective, everything is for man to decide, everything is relative, nothing absolute. For example, it is true that "No one here at SermonIndex should have their spiritual condition scrutinized by anyone based upon a misunderstanding of that person's true or underlying thoughts and beliefs" ONLY WHEN it is truly a misunderstanding. Says who? It doesn't matter. Because before God everything is clear and naked. Even if Chris thinks that he has been misunderstood and wrongly accused, what matters is the truth, not what Chris thinks or feels. Because truth is not contingent on man's perception or acceptance of it. However, it is better for man to seek and acknowledge the truth than to stick to his own thoughts or feelings. In order to understand the truth you must stand under it.

Now you are going to say that you don't agree with what I am saying, thinking such disagreeing is legitimate. But it isn't. Because disagreeing to the truth doesn't make it untruth, just as agreeing with untruth doesn't make it true. There cannot be two valid, coexisting alternatives in an argument. We cannot both be right. So it is wrong to say disagreeing is okay. Instead, one should strive to seek and understand the truth and nothing less.

In order to justify yourself, you may call the truth "allegation", "insinuation", "misinterpretation", etc., but what you call and say doesn't alter reality, Chris. This is not "word of faith"--creating reality by your own utterances (even though this may be reality "for you"). I see it is very important for you to justify yourself here, to keep your name clean. And maybe you can deceive the deceived, but you cannot deceived those who see.

humbly, i submit to you this:

lets just call it a day on this thread, yes?

can we all agree on that? moderators, saints?

meekly, neil

"Running a country using "general principles of Christianity" is a bad idea????

I believe Beck is calling the country back to "general priciples of Christianity" He is not asking people to join the Mormon Church.

John Adams:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. "

I believe the first and foremost general principal of Christianity is to receive the new birth through true faith in Jesus Christ. When I say Jesus Christ I do not mean the Mormon Christ who is the spirit brother of Satan.

Also, if the founding fathers would have followed a basic general principal of doing all "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" this country would probabaly not be in the condition it is in.

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

They somehow felt it necessary to mention "the Almighty", "the Creator", "God" etc in many of the founding documents but utterly FAILED to exault the name of Jesus Christ in these documents. If they would have done that basic general principal of Christanity I'm quite certain this country would be on a different path.

Brethern,

again, with love and patience i submit to you,

maybe we should put this thread to rest?

please?

brethern, moderators?

please?

more meekly, neil

sscott,
I couldn't agree more. I heard David Barton on Beck the other day not only talking about how "godly" all of our founding was (they almost speak as though the Civil War and other bloody history was "godly", or at least I get the feeling they endorse/ignore the lesser 'godly' looking aspects of US history). Well, when someone brought up, "well, weren't many of our founding fathers and most of our presidents freemasons?" I was a little taken back by his answer that "freemasonry back then isn't what it is today. It didn't have any of the sacred oaths, rituals, etc., it was just a collection of field lodges for the generals on the move and such".
Hhhhmmmm. I dunno. Didn't pass the sniff test to me, but I wasn't around back then, so I am not CERTAIN he might not have been right. Of course, I have been told most of our modern presidents were members of such cultic groups including the youth freemasonry groups such as the "skull and crossbones" and others (I forget all their names now, but anyone can look up Ed Decker, as an ex-freemason & ex-mormon on Youtube, or in his and Ron Carlson's book, "Fast Facts on False Teachings" for more info).
I understand most all of the recent presidents were also part of these satanic fraternal organizations with sacred death oaths and idolatrous rituals. He didn't seem to touch on that. Sure wasn't because they need field lodges, they have Airforce 1, Camp David, and the Air Force and Marines these days.
We are so "proud to be Americans" we seem to not be realistic about that kinda stuff. Am I glad God placed me here in the USA? Yes, for now. Wherever he would have me, I pray I would gladly go by his grace, but to be proud and nationalistic seems to be misplaced affections for a new covenant believer whose true home is in heaven. Just My 2 cents.

So please... let's evangelize the pagans BUT don't discourage them from running their affairs according to "general Christian principles"

@dspks

I like this, and the rest of your post for that matter.

Posted in the wrong place. Sorry.

I agree it is better (or at least easier - God decides which is eternally "better" for His own purposes for His Bride in different lands for different eternal purposes) to be under those governments trying to govern "according to general Christian principals" (in terms of living quiet peacable lives) than to live inder Sharia law where you head on a platter is sought, unless the Lord wants you there particularly for His glory & purposes. However, that's AGAIN not what I am speaking up about. Man, it's getting hard to keep circling the wagon and repeating this, but I can only assume some are not reading from the first post all the way through till now at this point.
My spiritual antennas went up and my internal alarms started to ring when Beck called together Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Judaizers, etc. all on one stage to lock arm in arm and pray to god together, regardless of their particular faith. I don't know how else to say it and keep to that point I was originally bringing?
Some have said (directly or indirectly) that doesn't seem to mean much or be a big deal to them. If they slaughtered a goat, split it in half, built a trench for the blood, all took off their shoes & walked through the blood together and took covenantal oaths to one another & "god", would that ring everyone's alarms here? I'm curious where the line might be? I'm not saying they stood up & blatantly laid out the whole plan on Universalistic salvation with the Roamings Road (pun intended) on 8/28, but I am saying that you need to examine what is beginning to take place now. The dragon standing in front of you threatening to behead you for the faith is one thing. The
serpent, cunning and crafty, in front of you masquerading as an angel of light, crying out, "Did God really say?" is quite another.
Jesus treated tax collectors and sinners in one way generally in scripture (he preached the gospel to them). He treated the deceived and demon-possessed one way (he delivered them). He treated the "religious hypocrites" and "false teachers" quite another way altogether. He rebuked them and warned others to be aware of their leaven. That's another story really, but I'd rather preach to someone who knows nothing of the gospel than someone who has been innoculated by a false gospel and is all mixed up between "the american dream of patriotism and religion" and the real Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Again, it's the ecumenical direction of calling everyone to lock arms together, seek god together for 40 days, etc. that's problematic. Not the fact that our laws stem from "Judeo-Christian values"

And you, Mr notme you are really laying it on thick and nasty. What fruit of the Spirit is that?

Certainly not the spirit of the Antichrist, which is so prevalent in modern-day "Christian" circles.