The End of Denominations

[11] And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [12] for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [13] until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. (Epheisans 4:11-13 NASB)

I believe the practical ramifications of this passage teaches that the Lord will eventually bring an end to the denominational and party spirit that exists within Christianity right now. Before the return of the Lord, and on this side of glory, we will see a corporate maturity and unity attained.

I have much more I can say on the subject, but, I just thought I'd invite feedback for the time being.

Many blessings,

Jimmy

The Lord not only will "eventually" bring an end to denominations, but he has already many times over. Wherever more of true Christianity has existed, there has been less of the denomination and party spirit. Wherever there has been the exalting of Christ, worship, prayer, revival, the Word, the Spirit, and fellowship, the denomination has never existed. And if they were present, their walls fell like those of Jericho. On the other hand, as long as men remain on the earth, there will be divisions, sects, and denominations as long as man is not perfect and true to God. This is not just a matter of doctrinal knowledge about unity, but unity is primarily a matter of the spirit.

Also, divisions are sometimes spoken of as good in the Bible. Divisions can allow for the recognition of those who are approved (by God) and are a means of cleansing the church of those who do not really and deeply desire to follow him. If so, divisions will never cease.

I don't believe the church has been in the dark for 2,000 years and will soon come to the light of spiritual maturity on this topic. Rather, it is something that ebbs and flows with the time and place and people.

GOD will shake the tree of
denominations; so that only
the true fruit will remain.
Jesus desire and prayer was
that we be made ONE in the
Father, Son, Spirit!! The
Body of Christ is One!!

I have noticed a common thread in my 34 years of walking with the Lord, those who are on fire for Him don't care a hoot about denominational lines, or sects. It has always been instant fellowship with such folks. I find great joy in this, because it is God breathed. We instantly know we are in the same family.

hi,i learned many years ago that God loves variety ...He makes sure that we are all so different that we need a denomination almost for ourselves ...that is why we are to be all things to all people so that we win some as we did today at lunch... i like the 100 and up denominations...lol jimp

Good thoughts one and all. I appreciate the feedback. I have found it interesting how quick many are to assume that denominations are a good thing, and in some sense needed. Some sense of "blessing" is thought to be associated with them.

In my opinion though, all denominations, even the better one's, are all Ishmael's. They are the product of the flesh and what man does in his own strength, independent of God's word and His promises. Abraham even thought Ishmael was good, and a blessing. But God saw only one child in Abraham.

Years ago I read a book by Watchman Nee in which he withdrew his membership in a denomination because he felt according to the word is was divisive. I had to agree with him, so I have never signed a membership in any church. We are one loaf and one body.

I have thought about doing such before. But I've decided that by officially joining a local church, even if that technically makes me part of a denomination, my loyalty is ultimately only to the local church I've joined. At best, I look at my association with the denomination as a way of networking with other local churches in the area. But sometimes, I've found in some denominations, they have little to no involvement with sister churches under the denominational label, even if they are only down the street.

So, to brainstorm, if the Lord will do as Ephesians 4:11-13 says, and if denominations are to come to an end, then practically speaking, how do you suppose He will do that? My conviction is that the Lord will use the difficult times that come upon the world in the last days to sift and refine the Church. In this process, the demands put upon the Church in the last days will demand the Church make a decision to follow Christ, pressing on unto maturity, and in doing so, will be forced to abandon everything that is not born of the Spirit of God.

At the same time though, I believe the Lord has been waking believers up to these truths concerning denominations being something born out of a schismatic attitude and hero worship than anything having to do with the Spirit of God. In part, I believe that is why many within the Church today have little to no loyalty to the denomination they may belong to. Indeed, in part the rise of the "non-denominational" movement is probably a reflection of this.

I feel after further thought that I need to clarify a few things about my stand to not sign on the dotted line. I am in submission to those who are in leadership over me. I shared with my pastor about why I feel restrained from "joining" a church on paper. He was very understanding and still has the heart to allow me to participate in everything. He has never made me feel like a partial member.

I also know that just because folks have signed on the dotted line does not mean they are there or take part. In fact I who have not signed on the dotted line am there all the time, and many of those who did sign are seldom there and many don't participate at all.

I do believe what will happen is that persecution and difficult times will make us all band together as one. I actually look forward to those days. We will find out just how wonderful community really is.

I saw pictures this morning of muslims bowing down in the streets on New York City in prayer, while christians can't even have a cross on in many places, Salvation Army workers could not wear their T-shirts with SA logos on them while helping with disaster relief. The tides are turning, and on the surface they are not in our favor. But what does that matter we are in His favor and that is all that matters. We shall overcomer and be with Him where He is. Hallelujah!!!!! We just need to bring as many as possible with us.

I have been reading the early church fathers, Ignatius and the others had no fear of death, and in fact welcomed it so they might see Him face to face. We need that heart in us for the days ahead. We need not fear what is coming on the earth because we know Who wins.

Jimmy said, "I have thought about doing such before. But I've decided that by officially joining a local church, even if that technically makes me part of a denomination, my loyalty is ultimately only to the local church I've joined. At best, I look at my association with the denomination as a way of networking with other local churches in the area. But sometimes, I've found in some denominations, they have little to no involvement with sister churches under the denominational label, even if they are only down the street."

If you believe the Lord plans to put an end to denominationalism, what about identifying with what you believe, Jimmy?

...Or are you concerned you might lose out on that "networking" advantage that membership in the denomination gets you? If you can't produce your membership card, you might be suspect, ay? They might not let you behind the pulpit.

Of course, identifying with the truth will always bring a cross into our lives.

[11] And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [12] for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [13] until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. (Epheisans 4:11-13 NASB)

A couple of questions i would ask about this passage of text before i would attempt an exegesis.

1. If denominations did not exist at the time this scripture was written. What did the church at the time understand the scripture to mean?

2. there are many false ways or denominations but is the scripture really talking about consolidation of all these false perverted ways?

3. is unity and unification the same thing in the context of what is spoken of?

4. is there any eschatological difficulties in correctly interpreting this verse.

if i was to read into the scripture eisegetically then.....

when the church faces end of days apocalyptic persecution before the return of christ. there wont be a baptist church or a pentecostal church there will just be a persecuted church. The pastors wont fly around in private jets they will probably be living in caves on a can of baked beans for on week.

I appreciate the many good points that many of you have made concerning Denominations. The scripture that Nathan quoted is the heart of the Lord concerning His people, and that is that we would all be made one.

The Body of Christ consists of many different members in one body. It is unity in diversity. The basis of our unity is being in Christ. "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." (Ephesians 4:4-6).

The Church is the Body of Christ and the Body of Christ cannot be divided therefore God is against anything that divides His Body. Denominations do not bring unity to the Body but division.

Many denominations had their beginnings in revivals and moves of God. Fresh revelation and restoration of vital truths were restored to the Church. However any time that man gets his hands on that which God is doing, the end result will be that of mixture, having some of God in it and a lot of man. Instead of Jesus building His Church, what we have is man building his own little kingdoms for his own glory.

Christ is the Head of His Body and men are the heads of the various denominations. The true Church can be in the denominations but the denominations can never be the Church. It is only what God is building on the sure foundation of Jesus Christ that will endure the great shaking in these last days. All that man has built will be consumed as wood, hay, and stubble in the fire that will try all things.

The true Church is a living breathing organism which is filled by the Spirit of God, while the organized Church is an organization that is built by man. The true Church is being led by the Spirit of God through waiting on Him and seeking Him in fervent prayer. The organized Church moves through planning by committees that are set up by man.

Mike

Good questions AD. I've had to wrestle with them myself. No doubt, I've signed on the dotted lines for the "advantages" that come with such membership. But I don't look at that any differently than Paul being a Jew unto Jews and as a Gentile to Gentiles. To me, it's no different than Timothy undergoing circumcision for the purpose of His ministry unto the Jews. It's just a "practical" step I've undertaken, so as to increase the sphere of my ministry.

Besides, Paul talked of being the "approved among you," in regard to the divisions that existed in Corinth. Those of us who do not carry about us a party spirit can still run in these circles, though we are not of them. Indeed, our ability to fellowship in the midst of these factions, and across party lines reveals just where we stand in regard to the Lord and each other.

Indeed, we must be careful not to be factitious even concerning being non-denominational. Paul said some in Corinth said they were "of Christ" in contrast to those who said they were of Paul or Cephas.

And for the record, I've preached in pulpits of churches that I had no denominational affiliations with.

Such is a fair point. I went to a church out of town this weekend while visiting my parents, one associated with the denomination of the church I attend. However, I think a basic description on the sign such as "Evangelical" would've been enough to tell me that church is probably grounded in something resembling Biblical Christianity. As it is, I've personally found over the years that churches within the same denomination can be VERY different from one another, even if there is a somewhat common denominational "culture" associated with them. So, such tags aren't always helpful, though, I get the point you are making.

Amen Goldminer!!! Well said! Brovo! Our God Reigns! Let Him Reign also in our hearts! And to have unity among the brethren. Then to see Him face to face. Glory to God!

Tom, you made some excellent points...

But then there are doctrinal differences, so how will you deal with them?

Some believe in OSAS, others believe you can lose your salvation; there are differences in how some interpret the endtimes: pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, pre-millenium, amillennism, etc; some believe holiness will characterize God's child, others will call that legalism; some believe in keeping the Lord's day holy, other say not; some believe in observing the Sabbath on Saturday and others say Sunday, others say not at all; some believe in head coverings and others say its observance smacks of legalism; in baptisms some believe in immersion, others pouring, others that it is not essential; some say baptism is essential for salvation and others say not; some believe in Biblical non-resistance and others say it is your duty to defend your country by serving in the military; some believe in speaking in unknown tongues, others say tongues means languages always; some believe the NT superceeds the OT in life and practice, others will say the scriptures is a flat book; some say divorce and remarriage is wrong and others say it is not; some say one should accept practicing homosexuals and others say no; some like contemporary music, other prefer traditional....and on and on and on.

How can a church function with all these differences?

ginnyrose

EDIT: Spellings

How can a church function with all these differences?

I have been watching this thread with some interest, but have not had the time to put in my two cents. God really spoke to me about this issue from the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians several years ago and totally changed my paradigm. Little did I realize that within a few years I would leave a denominational church to join with a group of people from all sorts of different backgrounds and experiences in the foundations of something that God is doing.

In 1 Cor. Paul admonishes the church there to be of one mind and one judgment and to all speak the same thing. He admonishes spiritual and doctrinal agreement. He then rebukes them and calls them immature and babes in Christ. He says that this is because of the divisions they were making among themselves. Some said I am of Paul, some of Apollos, some of Peter, and some of Christ. Three denominations and the "nondenominational" denomination if you will. The point is they were putting their eyes on their favorite teacher and not on Christ.

The particular denomination I was raised in started as a "movement" whose "founder" spoke strongly about it not being nor ever becoming a denomination or a sect. It was, in his eyes, simply a revival of pentecost, the faith of the apostles, and holiness that would spread among all church denominations. But for those who were born again and raised up into differing levels of maturity under this man's teaching, it became "their church". It became a denomination despite this man's warnings that it should never be so. To tell you how strong this is, I knew a young man full of the fire of God who tried to teach what the Holy Spirit laid on his heart in one of these churches. The people complained and said, "We don't want to hear that stuff. We want to hear more (name of denomination here) doctrine."

We get into trouble when we begin to revere the teachings of a particular man about the Word of God more than we revere the Word of God. We get into trouble when we begin to espouse the doctrines and creeds of a denomination above those of the Word of God. Hold the doctrines taught by man loosely and seek the truth of the Word of God prayerfully and diligently. When you see the doctrine of a man aligning itself with the Word, receive strength and ministry from it. When you see the doctrine of a man, or even your own interpretation beginning to run crossways with the Word, abandon your own or that of another man and cling to the Word.

I believe it is possible for us to speak the same thing. In our fellowship there are issues that come up from time to time where the teachings that different ones have received in the past come at odds. We must all then go to the Word of God, study diligently and prayerfully, and be willing to be changed by the Word. Above all we must remain in an attitude of love and deference to one another and stand side by side facing Christ and running hard after Him.

Not having read the entire thread either, I would simply like to take issue with the vast overstatement that HomeSkoolDad made in his post.

My issue is with his word “hippie,” including it with the "First Church of Crystal Powers and Resurrection Hippie-dom." (halleluyer!)

I just wanted to make sure everyone knows... not every hippie owns a crystal; sure, they may own a pot plant or two but definitely not every hippie owns a crystal; just wanted to make that clear.

God bless us all,
Lisa

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PS: HomeSkoolDad, I know you are new and did not want you to take this seriously; it's my pathetic attempt at humor!

How can a church function with all these differences?

One thing I have discovered: Jesus still chooses to fellowship and live within people who hold these opposing points of view, and regularly ministers through them. If Jesus can fellowship and minister through people whom I disagree with theologically, then why can't I learn to do the same as my Master?

Factions and those with part spirits were an early part of the church. Paul dealt with many such groups at Corinth. And their doctrines were diverse. Indeed, most of the New Testament epistles were written to combat the diversity of doctrine these churches were seeing.

These factions were by definition OUTSIDE the Church

Actually, no, in the opening chapters of 1 Corinthians, Paul talks about all of them being part of the Church. Indeed, in spite of their party spirit and hero worship, they still gathered together. Indeed, Paul even talked about those who were "approved" fellowshiping within these factions.

The Church by definition is a perfect union.

We are united via our union in Christ. But other Christians don't always get along with other Christians. Some do not preserve the bond of peace and unity of the Spirit in love. Instead, some get carnal, and war against one another.

To state otherwise is grave and heretical.

If you think the early New Testament church was this nice harmonious group that agreed in everything always, you simply have not been reading the New Testament.

1 Corinthians was written to address factions that had formed, people living in gross immorality, people breaking with apostolic practice and belief. 2nd Corinthians was written to the church to congratulate them for getting over these errors, but with another set of problems altogether. Ephesians and Colossians were written to these churches in response to error. Galatians was written in response to error. The same with 1 & 2 Thessalonians, etc., etc., etc.

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.