Mans will

Has anyone ever asked themselves,why?.Why did I yield to christ,while others remain under Gods wrath.What made us different?I am not better than anyone else,yet some turn and some dont.

I believe ALL are given the same chance.That is what makes me ask why.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

It is God who reveals the truth of the gospel to men's darkened minds. After that, men choose to believe or not. Men can't and won't choose before God reveals His truth. God takes the initiative here. Man cannot take credit for his own salvation. Man would never have chosen salvation if God had not first revealed the truth. God does not force His will on man but rather simply shines His light on man's conscience. To my mind, this is where Calvinism and Arminianism meet. God is sovereign AND man has a free will.

I agree with you.But that still leaves the question.If the same light is given to all,what is the difference.

John 3: 19-20

19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

James 4:6

But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."

God gives grace to the people who humble themselves, but issues the law to the proud

Luke 10:17-22

17As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 18And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19“You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’” 20And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.” 21Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

God does the wooing and drawing, removes our heart of stone and grants all of us a heart of flesh to receive the light, but men choose to reject and hate God.

The difference is the Spirit of God. The Spirit opens the eye of some, while He does not open the eyes of others. See John 6.

In the parable of the rich ruler, the ruler's eyes were opened, and he chose to reject. Russ

That is my point(the rich ruler).Why do some see and choose the prince of the world over the creator.

Salvation is a gift from God, but we have a choice to reject the gift being offered(harden our hearts) or receive it(salvation). The question of why do some choose to receive and some reject, in my understanding lies in the what Jesus commands sinners to do in Mark 1:15

15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Many are willing to believe, but few want to receive the other gift which goes hand in hand. That being the gift of repentance unto life. Just believing with no repentance is false. But when Jesus says to turn from our wicked ways, not the soul is insulted, thats the Gospel. The Gospel is insulting to our prideful hearts. So this is what keeps some from receiving Christ, they would rather live in darkness. Russ

Snuf,are you a calvanist? What you are trying to say is that the spirit(God)opens the eyes of some and not others.The God I serve does not select some for salvation and others not.This is not LOVE.Does my love for my fellow man tell me by scripture to select whom to love.Even if I had knowlege that you would never be saved I would still love you.Jesus himself said that we had to become like a child.I am sorry that I am not as mature as you,but mayby it would do you some good to remember where you came from.

Salvation is GOD'S gift; and it is by
HIS choosing and willing. Our part is
to receive the Offering and sacrifice
made by HIS Son, and receive HIS grace
and mercies !!

Personally I feel, with this topic, we are trying to get into the mind of an eternal Being with our own finite minds and it simply can't be done.
I know I was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world(Ephesians 1:4). I also know that there is nothing in me that makes me worthy of salvation (Romans 3:11, 7:18, Ephesians 2:8).

Where does God's sovereignty end and man's responsibility begin? That's the question that has been debated for centuries. If this thread is going to finally put the topic to bed then I'm truly honored to be posting on it, but I doubt it somewhat.

The truth is it is a mystery to us why we become believers. A wonderful miracle. And to know that it was in the mind of God before time began makes it even more wonderful. Let's just rest in it and leave the whys and wherefores with God. It all points to and glorifies our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Perhaps one day in rapturous glory beyond He may choose to enlighten us.

Thank you davym, good to hear its a mystery to someone else to. I thank the Lord every day for my salvation. It breaks my heart to see so many not saved. I guess that is where my question comes from.

walkthewalk,

I understand your question.
I think to answer this question we have to go back to the beginning of creation.
God created a world without sin, and created the angles to serve, but one angel who was perfect in wisdom and beauty was blinded by that very fact, that he was perfect in wisdom and beauty. His very perfection blinded him to the fact that he was a created being and not the CREATOR. He wanted the honor that is due only to the Creator.
You know the story, read the account in Isiah and Ezekiel.
In turn he tempted man to fall in the same desire to get honor that does not belong to him and to BE LIKE GOD. Now we have a whole race that is corrupted by sin in nature and practice.
But God, in Christ has given us the chance to escape that nature and be empowered by God's own nature through the Holy Spirit.
To love God and surrender to Him is a choice as rebelling against Him was also a choice in the very beginning. All man has to do to be saved to to recognize the simple fact that he belongs a God because he was created by God, and is not entitled to anything including himself.
It is only rational. You would think that every one should figure that out with perfect ease, but sin is irrational and insane.
For he that cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

When we read the story of the fall of Satan we say: what was he thinking? How insane? But every time we sin, we are doing the same thing, we are declaring that we are our own god and we refuse to bow down to the God who made us.

So, to ask why some respond with surrender while others with rebellion requires also asking why did Satan fall and some angels followed him while the rest of the angels refused to do the same but continued to obey and honor God and know their rightful place, that they were created.

Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise, and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created, Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you." (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

In the fall , we have a created being assuming the place of his Creator. In redemption, we have the Creator taking on flesh. There is much to be gleaned from the mystery of what our Lord Jesus did for us, and that should make us bow the knee in adoration and worship of the God who loved us so much to do such an awesome and awful thing.

UntoBabes, Thank you for your reply(with love). This is alot to chew on. Pray that the lord will give me wisdom and understanding.

"It breaks my heart to see so many not saved"

This is a burden of the heart that all true believers possess. It's put within us by the Holy Spirit and is in fact an evidence of the New Birth.
I wish I could write something that would make it all make sense for you, but all I can do is share some thoughts which you may want to ponder.

I remember when I was newly converted I went out and tried to tell my friends about the Lord and about how excited I was. I felt I had found the answer to everything and had to share it. But I was so disappointed when I soon discovered they weren't as excited as me and, moreover, they were starting to think I'd lost my mind. But I just wanted them to be converted.
As time went on though and I began to grow a little in the Lord I realised that it was actually quite arrogant to assume that someone could be converted simply by my weak powers of persuasion. I mean, think about it, if we were capable of converting people just by talking to them, life would be impossible to live. We would become so guilt ridden for having a 5 minute snooze because we could have used that 5 minutes to convert somebody. No, that's not how it works. I must be led by the Spirit both in my own sanctification and in evangelism. It is God who does the work in and through me and it is Him who saves. He will not part with this. Not with DL Moody, Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon or anyone. It is God's prerogitive. The fact that he used us in any way is a wonderful honor.

Then comes the question of well why does God not save more people or even everyone? This is where we must be extremely careful. We're in danger of blasphemy by suggesting there is injustice with God. There cannot be. The seeming way out of this is to say well if man rejects the Gospel then it is man's choice, but this contradicts many scriptures and also would give us some sort of merit for choosing to accept the Gospel.
So, I just feel its a mystery best left with God. It's the same when we contemplate eternity. Again, think about it, no beginning.......no end...... it boggles the mind! So how can we expect to understand why we are chosen and others aren't? I just leave it with God knowing full well that there is no injustice, but only mercy and justice.

In Christ
David

Ps untobabes thanks for your post. Very thought provoking.

TrueWitness wrote:

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

It is God who reveals the truth of the gospel to men's darkened minds. After that, men choose to believe or not. Men can't and won't choose before God reveals His truth. God takes the initiative here. Man cannot take credit for his own salvation. Man would never have chosen salvation if God had not first revealed the truth. God does not force His will on man but rather simply shines His light on man's conscience. To my mind, this is where Calvinism and Arminianism meet. God is sovereign AND man has a free will.(/quote)

Amen, well put. God is the initiator who offers salvation to all indiscriminately. Man is simply the responder who either receives or rejects the gracious offer of God.

Man indeed has a free will, meaning the power to choose to receive or reject the gospel. So ultimately some choose to receive God's gift of salvation and some don't based on their own choosing. And yet, before the foundation of the world God knew all of our choices and considered them when He chose us in Christ. So in a sense God first chose us before we were created. And in another sense God considered our choice before He chose us. He is not capricious in His work of redemption. He does not take any pleasure in the death of any wicked man or woman(Ezek.33:11), but rather that all may be saved(1Tim.2:4).

I think asking why some choose to be saved and some don't is sort of like asking why people choose different things in other areas of life. Humans are free agents. They can freely choose different things or paths of life. God has wired us this way and holds us accountable in the choices we make. Through the fall of Adam, man has become corrupt and depraved and on his way to hell, but through Christ, man can freely receive salvation. But I do agree that there are elements that remain mysteries in this issue of God's election and man's free will.

If God so loved the world and is not willing that any should perish, is the potter and is able to remold the stony heart & Christ died for all, then: who prayed for you, Who labored in the vineyard in which your branch lay barren, who entered into Christs sufferings, who forgave as Steven did, who wept carrying your sheaves. Doesn't the answer lie in us the so called elect. Maybe it is not that God is not able or willing but that we do not put our hand to the plow, dying to selves and trusting in his word and goodness and mercy for souls.

If I might interject: The question if a man has free will or not seems mostly academic in nature. The only thing Scripture seems concerned with asking, at least in my eyes, is whether or not you are serving the Lord with whatever you do have, whether it be free or not?

Forgive me if such seems to child like.

From experience, from being the worst of sinners, I did not choose to repent,believe, follow Jesus at all, he choose me I did not choose him. He gave me a new heart. I don't understand it all but I do understand from experience that my choice was always wicked until God gave be a new heart and put his spirit in me as I was born from above.And it is him who keeps me on the way, fool that I am.

I believe Satan struggles against everything God does because of his rebelliousness. I also had the powers of Hell come against me during conversion in supernatural ways. One example is that I was assaulted by the evil spirits of a witch who sought to manipulate me for evil purposes. He asked me why I didn't want to go do wicked things with him and out of my mouth popped "I am going to be a priest." That was inspired, I had no Idea I would be in a kingdom of priests, I hardly knew who Jesus was, yet I was already trusting him. He said "you can do anything you want before becoming a priest." I was silent to his reply. Half a year later I read Mere Christianity and the Spirit of God witnessed powerfully to my spirit the truth of Jesus, and a desire was awakened in me for God. I honestly do not believe my will, choice, desire, had any part in my salvation at all. I have much testimony like this of the grace and mercy of God. This is just the tip of the Iceberg of how he called, chose, and keeps me. I do not deserve it. I have been horrible in the most vile ways. And Yet he changed me. Amazing Grace. I do love you Pilgrim.

Jesus answers the very same simple question that was originaly asked in this post ( why do some believe and why do some not? ) in this way:

Jhn 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Jhn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

Jhn 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jhn 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

Jhn 8:46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?

Jhn 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."

I believe though, that we are in 100% agreement that there is no one else like Him.

And it is this agreement that the word speaks of.

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,\twith all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Ephesians 4:1-3

I believe that what we both understand that it is God that is the cause of our salvation. The author of our redemption. Therefore we can only boast in the Lord Jesus Christ.
He is worthy of all honor and praise!

If God wishes for all men to be saved, why would the Spirit open the eyes of some and *not* open the eyes of others?

Can we say that God does not open the eyes of all? Paul says all are without excuse. They have the witness of Creation, their own lives and frailty, their conscience, in addition to the witness of Christianity and the general witness of religion and spirituality to motivate them to consider eternity and the afterlife. I believe God gives this understanding and opportunity to all and most choose to reject it. Knowledge or having your eyes opened does not seem to give that special benefit, anyway, as many who have been Christians for years, with a thorough knowledge of God and the Scriptures, are still turning their backs to him and walking away. The "special benefit" comes when you walk in whatever light you are given. But, I do not doubt that enlightenment is a joint thing that involves both man and God.

I love these testimonies! Thank you, davym, MyVeryHeart, Pilgrim777 and others.

What a blessing to have a discussion like this and not have it become a messy Cal/Arm bloodbath.

Let's try to keep it that way!

Peace in Jesus,

walkthewalk...

The God I serve does not select some for salvation and others not.

The God of the Bible does.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jhn 12:37 ¶ But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

As Matt 18 shows clearly, there is accountability even when you cannot get yourself out of debt. Be careful of making such statements of who God is.

hi, after more than 45 yrs. of being in question the Lord revealed this to me... everything in the future is whosover will may come and as i look back i see that everything was ordered by the Lord.jimp predestined from the foundation of the earth...the one He died for...Praise Jesus

Ceedub,

I think it is very important to take things within the context of Scripture.

Just to give you an example about context, I have heard this from a preacher and it explained a lot of things to me. He asked his audience and said: What would you conclude if I tell you that a man just cut open a lady’ stomach? What would you think of this man. But before they answered, he said: You shouldn’t conclude anything yet, because you do not know the context of the information I have just given you.

Then he said: context makes all the difference in the world. If the context is: This lady is in a delivery room and she is having a Cesarean and this man is a doctor trying to save her life and the life of her baby. Then, and only then you can make a conclusion about his motive and consequently about his character.

On the other hand, if the context is: He was trying to steal her purse and she resisted him. Then you can make a conclusion about his motive that he is trying to harm her and consequently you can conclude that he is of a bad character.

Well, all that got me thinking. If we have to stay in reserve and hold off from making any conclusion until we know the context about the things of this life, how much more serious must we be about Bible interpretation that, if mishandled, may result in spiritual loss. It is the Word of God, The Holy inspired Word of God.

How often do we snatch a verse out of it’s context and give it a completely different meaning by doing this.
God will hold us accountable if we are not careful to handle His Word with most reverence.

If you agree on what I have just said so far, I will go on to explain the verses you included in your post, but if not, there is no point of going on any further.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed.

May I say something about predestination.

The Bible DOES speak very powerfully to election and predestination but not in the Calvinistic sense. Meaning-Not unconditionally-

GOD IS OMNISCIENT. That means he can see the future (humanly speaking). And God is infinite. That means he does not have past, present and future as we do. He lives out of time.
Whom He sees will (humanly speaking) come to Him through faith in His son are the elect,predestined, forknown, justified, sanctified...,

The verse in Acts does not say they believed for the sole reason that they were ordained, or even believed because they were ordained at all.

They were ordained to eternal life because God fore-saw they will believe, and when it came the opportunity for them to believe( the actual ocasion ) upon hearing the Gospel, they believed.

Furthermore, the Bible does not say that all who believe the Gospel are ordained to eternal life, because some believe but do not continue in thier belief.

On that specific ocasion. Let's say there were 30 people who believed, but only 25 were ordained to eternel life.
In that case, all who were ordained to eternel life believed, but not all who believed were ordained to eternel life.

I hope I didn't make things more complicated.

They were ordained to eternal life because God fore-saw they will believe

Brother Paul

*edit - My questions are sincere. If this devolves into yet another Cal/Arm debate with accusations of heresy and false professors, the thread will shut down immediately. Please keep the discussion civil, keep it cordial, keep the emotions out. Thank you and may God bless the conversation.

Gladly,

1pet1:1,2

Elect according to the forknowledge of God.
Forknowledge in that verse speak of mental knowledge. It is the same word as in Acts2:23 (proginosko). Please read it within the context in both of these verses.
I know that the word know can refer to know in an intimate way as in Rom 8:29 .

But God fore-knew( intimately) meaning to fore-love those who He fore-knew (mentaly) will embrace His son by faith.
He did not blind-fold His omniscience when He chose His elect.

I am using the human terms here to explain a divine character to human beings. God does not have a dinision between mind and heart, or love and knowledge. Hid will and pleasure is righteous.

Paul,

My reply to Rom 9:16.

Please read also Rom 9: 30-32. The seeking that Paul is criticizing is the seeking to establish one's own righteousness not the seeking of faith. Paul has in mind Jew v. Gentile in the whole epistle of Romans and in other epistles as well

One preacher describibg Paul said: He rolled it by the yard. I think that is a very accurete description of Paul He sometimes fells he had to address something else and then he comes back to address his oroginal point, but that has created confusion for some.You may put Rom 9: 30-32 right after Rom 9: 16 to be able to understand his point.

I am sorry. It is taking me long to answer your question. I do not have any material ready at hand.

What is your question about Eph 2:8?

Sorry, I meant to say (describing)

I have replied to your previous thread. I have never said that George Whitefield or others are false professors. I am just saying they are mistaken. THAT IS ALL!!!

Seriously mistaken.

I have to go watch the conference now. We will tackle this later.

In all kindness, the rebuttal to your theory could be stated thus (these are not my words, but Pink says it better than I can):

"The "foreknowledge" of God is based upon His own decrees as is clear from Acts 2:23: "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" Note the order here: first God’s "determinate counsel" (His decree), and second His "foreknowledge."

"God has "ordained to eternal life" certain ones, and that in consequence of His ordination they, in due time, "believe". God’s ordination to salvation of His own elect is not due to any good thing in them nor to anything meritorious from them, but solely of His grace; that God has designedly selected the most unlikely objects to be the recipients of His special favors, in order that "no flesh should glory in His presence;" and that God chose His people in Christ before the foundation of the world, not because they were so, but in order that they "should be, holy and without blame before him"; and that having selected certain ones to salvation, He also decreed the means by which His eternal counsel should be made good; that the very grace by which we are saved was, in God’s purpose, "given us in Christ Jesus before the world began;" that long before they were actually created, God’s elect stood present before His mind, were "foreknown" by Him, i.e., were the definite objects of His eternal love."

Have you noticed how Muller17 has been saturating SI forums with powerful truths of the Gospel?

I think he understands that many people are watching at this time, and that we should bless them with our words. It is a poor witness if they see people fighting over anything and everything. Also, this isn't time to throw spurious doctrines in the forum; it's time to bless people with powerful truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Praise God for such threads as "Full Salvation from Sin", "Does God hate", "The Necessity of Rebirth", "Divine Judgments and Signs of the Times", "The Need for a Clean life", etc.

Those who were suspicious of Muller17, please discern the intentions.

@ walkthewalk

Hello, I am new to this post. I grew up in an arminian atmosphere; within the last two year i have begun to see things in a more reformed way. I desire to be humble in this and only want to understand things from a biblical viewpoint. Here is a helpful thought that has helped me in regards to the whole debate. I can dwell with any arminian who believes that salvation is a supernatural, Amighty work of God alone and I can dwell with any calvinist who believes in ferverently proclaiming the Gospel to all men. To compell them to come in; nay not mere desicions but to cry out to God for the power of Holy Spirit regeneration.
You ask a very deep and honest question. Here is another very similar way of asking it. When did I begin to hate the sin which I once loved and to begin to love God whom I used to hate and suppress? This is indeed a miracle because I truly did use to love sin and hate God. I did not always like the earthly consequences of it nor did I cherish hearing warnings of eternal punishment for them nevertheless I loved my sin. I was a slave to it. I know that I in the midst of loving my sin did not one day choose to begin to hate it.
Jesus is very clear that the outward sins we commit generate from our wicked heart within (Mk 7:21). I do believe that that all men have a will. But I believe that because of sin our will is broken and dead along with the rest of our nature and soul. If God would have convicted me of my sin and shown me the perfect Savior of Christ without first giving me a new heart/nature of righteousness I would never have chosen Him. I believe that in salvation God gives us a new will which necessarily chooses Him. (Ezekial 36:25-27)
One day this thought came to my mind. I mean who wouldn't choose Christ. Why it is absolute absurdity not to. The heavens, the mountains, the seas, the clouds, animals, birds, plants, sun and moon, and great seraphims all obey Him. It's a no brainer. It can only be because of sin and our enslavement to it that we don't choose God. Sin makes no sense, because it is us cutting ourselves of from the very source of Life. As absurd as an oak tree pulling its roots up out of the ground or hiding itself from the sunlight. As abnormal as sea creatures casting themselves upon the shore to die away from their source of life. It is believing a lie when we know the truth. Yet we were born into sin, and we are dead in our trespasses and sin. A dead man can't reason with himself as to whether or not to choose to be alive. Dead men don't want to be alive. Men who want to be alive are alive! :). I know that God does not raise men to life based upon any merit, virtue or works in them, but only Sovereign love. I know for a fact that if God had left me to go to hell He would still be loving. But Christ died for His sheep while they were yet His enemies. I have come to see Holy Spirit conviction of sin one of the most precious gifts from God. We don't deserved to be convicted much less made new creatures in Christ.

Why? I can only look to heaven and ask the Lord myself. Grace!!

Oh I know, someone will say, "if you know the Lord then you should have your theology straight". Not necessarily. I personally wouldn't touch these men.

If a man or woman is led by the Holy Spirit, they will not fight to prove their theological "correctness" at the expense of quenching the Spirit in their own walks. The letter of John Calvin, the letter of Jakob Arminius...yes, even the very letter of God - brings certain death. It is the Spirit behind the Word that brings life, authorization, vivification, and the Spirit will never vivify a word from man or a scripture from the Word of God if the motive within is to simply win a discussion or promote a pet system.

Many are deceived into thinking they have a special authority like the Apostle Paul to weed out error and publically confront the Peters and smite the Simeons with blindness. These people are full of pride and contention and usually have an axe to grind against one theological system or another as a response to some private issue they have. Strongholds. They can't just abide in Christ and rest and grow in grace and esteem others. I say, mark these people and avoid them. They will enter these forums and go on a crusade against one system or another, in order to "defend" the truth. They will use their key scriptures and Greek semantics like swords and daggers to thrust the topic through and bleed out any edification that may have been life-giving.

Snuf,
I totally agree. Men can be wrong on doctrine, but love the Lord, and vice versa.

I wish we have one George Whitefield today that God can work through and save souls.

rick, I was blessed by your post, but I only abide by the Bible. God never never never in the Bible calls faith a merit, or something to boast about. That is the invention of man .

Romans 3:27-28

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

@ untobabes,

I understand and agree with you. I do believe that biblically faith itself is a gift from God. As Paul said he can only boast in Christ alone. Everything good a person has is from the Lord and if a person has faith in Christ, yeah even the ability to have faith in the Lord it is a gift from God.