Bible college test and answers

Shawn Colby
Peter
Rev Borg
chap 1, 2

---In chapter 1 verse 7, Peter talked about the trial of our faith. Why is the trial of our faith so important to us as believers? Why is gold used as the element to illustrate the trial of our faith?---

1.) Our Faith is always on trial. We may have Faith but how do you know it’s Faith unless it is tested? That is why this is important. A false faith is no good unto Salvation. However, proven and genuine Faith will result in a Divine Intervention and change our path of life and final destination after death. As Gold is heated, it becomes pure. It’s color (appearance) even changes as contaminants and alloys are removed. Likewise, Faith given is tested in a specially built furnace for each of those participating in the life of Faith. If there had been a true Biblical repentance experienced by the Believer, not of heartfelt emotion or of shallow confession, the Faith will remain and finish its course to the Ultimate Prize who is our Lord Jesus.

---In chapter 1 verses 15 and 16, Peter mentioned holiness. What does it mean to be holy in our conversation? How can we be as holy as He is holy?---

2.) Great question. One of many to determine the actual Biblical Spirituality of a pastor and lay person by the answer they give. Let’s start by stating what Holiness is NOT:
\tHoliness is NOT an outward act or appearance.
\tHoliness is NOT something we can produce of ourselves.
\tHoliness is NOT some goal to attain in order to achieve some emotional \texperience.
\tHoliness is NOT of ourselves by effort on our part.
Now, The Grace and Covenant mentality will give the answer to what Holiness is as this:
\tHoliness is a right standing given to the candidate by being placed \tsupernaturally IN God, through Jesus and His Sacrifice -freely given- by Faith \talone.
\tHoliness is also kept in this same manner; entering into Cov’t Promises by \tGrace.
Then, understanding these things, we can walk in obedience to the Spiritual Life IN Jesus. As we are walking IN Him (Spirit Life), as God sees fit, He can choose to manifest in us in the earth(conversation) what has taken place by/in the Spirit/Faith Life.
As we learn of our depth of wickedness, it becomes more and more clear that our soulish nature needs totally bypassed. This is what the Lord has done and that by burying us IN His Son, Jesus. That when God our Father looks down upon us from His Throne, He only would see Jesus (‘the’ Faith on our part) and not our faults, failures, shortcomings and sins that we would still be susceptible to committing ever after Salvation. The act of continual and constant Faith in the Atoning Sacrifice is the process of Sanctification. And a life long made up mindset of that ensures we in our flesh are never ‘seen’ by God. Jesus remains our constant covering in this manner of Faith.

---According to chapter 2 verse 9, briefly explain the four things Peter listed that we are as Christians. What does it mean to show forth the praises of Him?---

3.) \ta. IN Jesus, we are considered literally by God our Father, to be a New race of \tpeople.
\tb. Royal =’s Kingly and Priest =’s intercessor. The thing about that is, our Lord \tdoes not call us anything else but a King and a Priest. A Priest in the Old \tTestament never condemned but was always about the business of intercession \tand atonement.
\tc. This ‘Holy Nation’ is not of this world’s system of establishing self \trighteousness and earning merit. It does not seek to better ones self by work of \tthe flesh and use of carnal powers.
\td. A ‘Peculiar People/ Nation’ means to make something and then surround it \twith a circle, signifying ownership. Our Lord formed us through Jesus, for \tHimself.
‘Showing Forth’ is showing from where something came or where the origin of an action proceeds and ‘the Praises’ is excellencies or from another root word, a man child. So we are to praise the God-man Jesus who lived 2000 years ago and still does and always will live because He came from Heaven. It could be said as well that our Righteousness and Salvation come from Calvary by that same God-man Jesus.

---In chapter 2 verses 13-23, Peter dealt with submission to authority. As believers, why is it important that we submit to: 1) Government; 2) Those whom God puts over us as employer, pastor, etc?---

4.) In short, God has appointed these to rule and govern a land or nations that there might be some form of peace (non-Biblical however) among the unbelievers as the Believers co-dwell in this earth. Keep in mind that the person who said this is the same who tried to cut another’s head off in the garden. So he has come far in submission to Christ. AS we operate the same, we set an example for others. We witness of Christ Jesus in this manner. Enduring wrong for the sake of the Kingdom is going to get the attention of someone. If we are dead to self and really do believe the Gospel, we don’t any longer see ourselves as part of this world and rely totally and completely on God for all things, including revenge. Remember Acts! By persecution, Christianity spread like fire!

I hope you have enjoyed these answers. If any of you have theological doubt or questions in general or comments, all is welcome!

so no one agrees with what was said? Or is there anything to add?

I have a few comments about your question and answer on holiness.

The literal translation of holiness means, "To be set apart". Holiness is consecration at it's root, and from there, it expands with meaning.

You can consecrate (set apart) yourself, and, God can consecrate you.

When peter says to be holy in conversation, he is telling them to be set apart unto the Lord in conversation.

But it is more than this, it is being set apart for the Lords purpose.

Yes, Thank you for the reply. I am always up for good conversation over such things.

In your last comment, the statement, "it is being set apart for the Lords purpose" we might deal with it to bring in focus the other comments.

For the Lord's purpose... I certainly do not imply I have all the answers but I would ask the readers to consider: When our Lord sets about to accomplish something, is that a responsibility of ourselves to produce the work of ourselves(flesh) or is that His Divine Power through an unholy vessel?

If anything has our scent on it, the Lord MUST reject it. Thus, the need for repentance and Faith. By Faith, we are placed and buried IN Jesus. This way, ALL of our soulish powers, attitudes, intelligence, prowess and ability are bypassed. And it is only His Divine 'fingerprint' that remains to whatever is the work towards a Purpose.

When the Lord purposes something, it ends up perfect. The only way it can end up perfect is to not have begun by us, operated by us or finished by us. It still is the Lord doing everything by the Power of His Spirit and not our own filthy hands touching it even after we get Saved.

So being Set Apart is not an outward action and it is not an inward will on our part. Or even logic on our part. It is simply 'not belonging to the world and it's ways.' Of coarse, through the means of the Cross and Belief in the Finished Work.

And I am not stating that we have no part in anything! Rather, the only part that the believer has is to daily die to self's willpower and acquiesce to the Gospel. Which is to go God's -Way- and the Way is a surrendered life planted IN Jesus (Rom 6:3).

I don't have enough words to convey this Spirit Truth, it is only revealed by the Spirit. Prayerfully, the Lord would give Spirit eyes to see.

Great Statement! I encourage others to follow likewise-

hi, c at best...you can do better.jimp

Hello jimp, alright, how would you answer the test questions?

Pilgrim777, I see you have some thoughts there but I could not work them down to one concise statement. I'm not following, could you clarify by making a direct statement?

Thanks again!

P.S. in thinking about Light... I might offer that seeing this Light, the flesh(foundation of morality in humans. which ='s effects of the fall) cannot ever receive Light. It is not mental(or outward separation) but of the Spirit and by the Spirit revealing. Like when Jesus told Peter he is 'blessed' because he heard from God our Father about who Jesus actually was. Flesh did not/ could not reveal that. That is Light. God is Light. God is the only One to ever 'be alive' in any Biblical sense. So to be set apart in the spiritual sense, we are not among the world's numbers of dead(darkness) but of Light(PHOS)/ light moves and it is alive then. Just a thought.

I figured I might quickly add:

during most campmeetings, most preachers would think Revival is to bring the people into a felt emotional high of their idea of Holiness(set apart). So the preachers sets about to bend the hearts of the participants using sad stories or preaching against pet sins to cause a euphoric response. And then you'll hear, "the church needs to repent! In sackcloth and ashes! time to buckle down and get serious! Show God you love 'em!" and all this is, is an act of reintroducing the LAW. Because this demands human effort to ACT in a certain way. Then, when the campmeeting is over, and faces that once 'shone' like Moses' and all that Glory fades, the people realize that campmeet did not work either and so continue to work harder to get back what they lost. Is it a viscous cycle. Law is... but as Christians, we are to be set apart from the old way of living by and under LAW! When you come into the Light, you are free from the deeds of the Law and are free to walk in a newness of Life(Zoe) THAT is -IN- Christ Jesus. IOW, while my body is still alive, it is God's Life at work for me. And He already worked everything at Calvary. So there is no more Work or Righteousness left to accomplish. That is being IN the Light. The Spirit reveals, man says it's greasy Grace... I'll go with God! (:

Another Brother and I were talking about these things and how the majority of the Church bucks against the Spirit of God. We agreed that What a person believes will determine their view of Scripture.

We also discussed:

that if a beloved believer has a view of God that says God is an angry judge (if we do not perform perfectly) and that He also has not fulfilled all requirements of Righteousness (and has offered to give us freely that Righteousness), then that believer will SOW into his/her own works and attempts to please God. Through almost anything, most of the time calling it "being set apart" on an earthly physical level.

But if the Believer be one who walks(lives) according to the Spirit(alive only IN Jesus) he/she will SOW into the Spirit and reap the things of the Spirit, into the soul and THEN ultimately out through the body.

Who still thinks their Righteousness is earned on their part? Who will stand and say being Sanctified is an outward action?

Amen, Hope this helps-

hi, if you are into Christ and He is in you;you are holy as you will ever be.holy ground was only holy because of the prescence of the thrice Holy One...Gold is only increased in value when fire heats out the impurities that are within it...our lives are changed only by the conviction of the Holy Spirit and not by anything to do with the flesh. whatsoever is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of the Spirit is spirit...jimp most preaching on sin has us take inventory of our lives and makes us self and sin conscious and self and sin can do nothing to help us...only Jesus and faith in what He did on the cross has any power to redeem us (buy us back)this great Love has great power.in closing ...we sin in the flesh and we will pay for our sin in the flesh for the bible teaches clearly that our sin will find us out.if a man overeats all his life he will become obese and have hip and leg joint problems and other ailments.etc.

Amen Mr Jimp,

I like what you said about the gold. A loving wise man told me something else about gold. He said that as it cools, it does not loose any more value. But it actually increases as things have been removed. That's us!

This means that since our Father has made the legal means to dwell in us, He has the power to Sanctify us while still in the body.

The soul is bypassed according to God's eyes. Though from our corrupt 'heart of hearts' still proceeds sins in the plural. But our immaterial man is replaced by His Perfect Spirit(by Thee Faith). And that's what God views us by. And as long as we continue to have that Faith, God has the legal right and ability to adjust the soul and then therefore the body will produce proper actions.

Many teachers will teach their congregations to manipulate the soul(the way of flesh) in order to produce proper results. This is false and leads one right back into idolatry (self worship) and ultimately condemnation when they realize their efforts will never be good or powerful enough to Sanctify themselves.

step programs will never work,

confessing things out will never work,

writing sins on paper and stomping them will never work,

sacraments will never work,

a euphoric experience during a song will never work,

memorizing Scripture will never work,

quoting scripture will never work,

you words of, "just try harder brother" will never work,
(in fact they are very condemning)

saying, "If I only believed like so-n-so" will never work,

or, "if You only believed like me" will never work

Anything but simple Faith in the Death of Jesus will never work. But God will always consider anything else than that as the thing that grieves His Holy Ghost.

Now, we are sinners not because we do sinS but because of unbelief in our sinful nature. That is 'The Sin' ... that we are judged already for. Likewise, we do not go to hell as Christians if we experience an act of sin right before we die. One might go because of rank unbelief.

Now, as we sin on the body, we will reap consequences in the earth. If you cheat on your wife, you destroy the family. If you steal, you loose testimony. Like Jimp said, if you over eat, you get to be pleasantly plump. If you smoke, you develop lung issues, if you go snow skiing barefoot, you loose your feet... and etc.

So instead of using the ways of man (soulish manipulation) God operates on a totally different level. He considers us IN His Son via the Sacrificial Atoning death on Calvary.

And as we preach Jesus as Beautiful and Lovely, that Jesus manifest on the outward because the threat of Law is then removed. But if the listener hears God as an angry judge, we will set about to please Him, thinking that being set apart is in what we do or don't do. There is no glory meter that we can make go up or down. I know we do not think of it like that but that's exactly what we have been taught!

I sure hope these posts are "imparting a spiritual blessing" on the readers. For that is the goal. Your questions and challenges help to develop the progress for the other readers. Please feel free! POST!

In chapter 1 verses 15 and 16, Peter mentioned holiness. What does it mean to be holy in our conversation? How can we be as holy as He is holy?---

Interesting questions...

Re: How can we be as holy as He is holy?

My understanding: We can't be holy as God is because we are human and not God. However, we are called to be Holy because He is holy. Big difference, don't you think?

So, how are we to be holy? v.14 says (NASB) As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance...To be holy means we must be obedient to Him. Seems simple to me....but not always easy to do when our lusts gets in the way. :-(

ginnyrose

---In chapter 2 verses 13-23, Peter dealt with submission to authority. As believers, why is it important that we submit to: 1) Government; 2) Those whom God puts over us as employer, pastor, etc?-

This concept is challenging, at the least.

Why is it important that we submit to employer?

My understanding: Your submission to your employer demonstrates to your employer about your faith.

As an employer we hire PT help. A very religious gal destroyed her testimony by purloining: stealing time from us by talking unnecessarily on her cell phone. After my husband confronted her she decided to quit. Her work otherwise was excellent.

Our work is to be one that works for the betterment of all who we come in contact with, regardless who it is: the gov, the pastors in the church, our spouses, our neighbor. If one is arrogant, proud, unsubmissive, rebellious it will reflect on who you claim to be. Always. It will destroy your testimony quicker then anything else. This is why submission to all authority above you is essential.

Too many folks think the best way to witness for the LORD is by preaching, teaching. This is all essential. However, one of the most effective way to preach, teach is to live it where the rubber meets the road. Too many testimonies have been destroyed by arrogance, rebellion, unsubmissiveness. It is in our work where the test of our faith comes into play. If one's faith will not enable one to withstand the pressures of work, you have demonstrated that you are nothing but a hypocrite. Too many ungodly folks have said if that is what a Christian is I never want to be one!
This is why submission to authority is essential for the furtherance of the Gospel. If the Gospel does not impact life where it meets the road it is useless.

ginnyrose

hi,ginnyrose gets an a...jimp

Yes, Ginnyrose did well.

The test is already turned in but I thought it would be a good idea to post the topics covered.

Now, let's say we see a Believer that is having an issue with like the cell phone. And the believer knows it's wrong and says, "I've tried to stop but I can't no matter how hard I try."

how would we best tell that believer the way to have victory over sin issues in a Christian's life?

To go back to my original point, the hebrew and greek definition of holiness, is to be set apart unto the lord. Not a debated point.

Being set apart unto the Lord is not a dead work, or an act of the flesh as you referred to it earlier, but rather, it is a choice made under influence of the indwelling (Holy) Spirit.

To equate holiness with an act of the flesh, is to do exactly what the pharisees did when they attributed the works of Jesus to the devil, to which Christ then told them that they were in danger of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Freedom from fleshly acts, dead works, or sin as you may call it, comes from absolute reliance on the spirit of God to change our desires as we submit to Him. Christ said, be ye holy, as I am holy. Or, be set apart, even as I am set apart.

I finished a book about holiness and the author explained holiness. (1) Positional sanctification as oneness with Christ (ye in Me). (2) Progressive sanctification as likeness to Christ(I in you) and personal sanctification as Fullness of Christ (much fruit).

The parable of the True Vine is a good illustration of what it means to be holy and bear fruit.I'm only a branch and i cant do nothing without the Vine and if the Father will not prune me ill not bear much fruit.

There is an objective and subjective meaning for holiness. We are chosen befor the foundation of the world to be holy and we are exhorted to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure". Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith but we as a nea creation in Jesus Christ our Lord need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling according to his power working in us.

2 Corinthians 3:18 - "And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." Being christlike is a lifelong process starting at regenaration and continuing to the end of our lifelong journey of faith.

William Macdonald said, "a sanctified person or thing is one set apart from ordinary uses to be for God's own possession, use & enjoyment".

Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and we have been bought at the cross with the precious blood of our Saviour to be vessels of honor in the House of God."Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work." - 2Timothy 2:20,21

As for the scope of holiness it includes a complete sanctification of spirit, soul and body, "Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Sanctification is more than an experience, its a Person - Jesus Christ and Him alone is the source of our sanctification and its all by grace thru faith.

Sanctification includes consecration and surrender to God and it require a lifelong abandonement to the will of God. We die to self and the life of the flesh to live for Christ. We crucify our flesh with its passions and desires by taking up the croos and following Jesus.

Sanctification is Christ in me who is the hope of glory. We rise up with Christ to a new dimension of a higher life in Him. We fix our eyes on Jesus in glory and by faith receive his light so that we can walk in the light.

To be holy as God is holy it means to be partakers of his divine nature by believing his great and precious promises (1Peter 1:4). His divine power has enabled and granted us all things that pertain to godliness. To be holy it means to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the desires of the flesh. It means to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

I purpose of writing another post about holiness is to admonish and exhort by brothers and sisters in the Lord, and i am being buil up also by the insights shared here.

The Scripture says, "without holiness no one shall see the Lord". We know that the works of the flesh are evil and an abomination to the Lord. It is not by might, not by power but by my Spirit says the Lord. The Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier. Is the Spirit really dwelling in us, do we have the witness of the Spirit that we are the sons of God? If we have greived and quenched the Holy Spirit, than we need to deal with us and examine ourselves in the light of God's word and confess our known sins and look by the eyes of faith to Jesus on the cross. The way to restoring the fellowship with God is always thru the cross and the blood.

The apostles addressed the believers as saints in their letters not as sinners. Christ died on the cross to save us from sin and make us saints.His blood shed on the cross once for all for us is all sufficient to cleans us from sin. Jesus is the ever present Saviour to save us from sin. He came to save his people from their sins and we are part of the chosen people of God.

Now, let's say we see a Believer that is having an issue with like the cell phone. And the believer knows it's wrong and says, "I've tried to stop but I can't no matter how hard I try."

I would love to hear your take on this question! Really!

I have read that some people are addicted to it and/or the Blackberry and its cousins. But then I do not have to look far to see it - I have a sister-in-law who is addicted to her Blackberry which contributed to her marriage failure.

how would we best tell that believer the way to have victory over sin issues in a Christian's life?

I would love to hear you answer to this question. Too many do not seem to be aware they have a problem or if they do do not care. But you said some say they cannot quit..at least they are honest. What is your suggestion?

ginnyrose

William Macdonald said, "a sanctified person or thing is one set apart from ordinary uses to be for God's own possession, use & enjoyment".

Beautiful! Love it!

ginnyrose

All of you beautiful Saints have posted good postings.

I started this topic(s) as there is a great need for Spirit food in our land. And what will we give those oversees who still need to hear? More law? Pompous words? The believers would not last a few years having been fed that way. And on SI, I'm tired of mundane and unlearned arguments that eventually come to most posts. It's like majoring on the minor kind of stuff.

But as I see it, not because I started it, but there is a great need for Spirit teaching and understanding of how we are actually Sanctified and set free from the power of darkness.

I have seen too many wrong doctrines taught and attempted and the True Way ignored. Many will say "it's too easy" and "if you preach that, you'll have sin all over!" You know, the "gotta cram MY method of living for God in the people."
But sadly, none of it works.

BenWilliams - great post! Those things that you posted are not revealed by man. Only God can reveal Spirit things.

Alive-to-God - also good. You mentioned in Rom 8:13... Just HOW does He show us this? And what IS putting on the new man? How can the rest of us do this? -good thoughts

My friend, Elected - You're on a good track. This is where I was only a couple of years ago in progression to where our Lord has brought me so far. So keep going and listening to the leading! I think your idea of "flesh" is still acts of sins carried out through the body. This is not the case. "flesh" is not watching too much Baywatch or eating too much chocolate! Ha, I wish! These are rather the symptoms of the actual, deeper, problem on a spiritual level. Flesh is not the deeds of the body but from where these deeds come. It is as well our hateful nature and where every thought comes from that would exalt itself above God. God made a way, man tries to Sanctify self in a different way other than what God prescribed. THAT is flesh.

Also, you mentioned about cleansing one's self. How will the rest of us do this? How have you cleansed yourself so far?

See what I mean? These topics are barely addressed in our churches. We have many sick among us that are too weak to make it. They are behind on an old gravel road somewhere. But if they don't get frustrated in their Faith and give it up, God someday will come to them and speak to them and tell them that HE Loves them personally.

Ginnyrose - Hello again, how are you? I see your questions. Might I ask some of the others to put to use what we have been discussing? I'll watch as we go. If no one answers, I may come back with what the Lord has built in me so far. But please, you all are free to post.

God has used a very small list of ministries online, some old people (gotta love them), maybe two peers, a short list of teachers and the church that I am currently at to continually speak and develop the Truth He has invested in pathetic me. Live study topics like Covenant and Law vs Spirit (Grace) and hearing from God for yourself have helped much.

The Spirit Walk literally is My Faith(Christ and Him Crucified) in God's Plan and a denial of trying to clean myself up. It is Grace as the answer to putting down sin. Not Law of, "thou shalt not..." and "you know that's wrong..."

amen, hope you all to be blessed! Bro Shawn.

Holiness is the absolute absence of evil in one's inclination, thoughts, and actions.

Holiness is purer than being righteous, blameless, or sinless, these are but relative terms with respect to the different dispensation of God's dealing with moral beings.

"Why is it important that we submit to employer?

My understanding: Your submission to your employer demonstrates to your employer about your faith."

One subtle but important caveat to this idea of "submission to employer". As an employer I am finding that concepts like "submission", "compliance" and obedience" can often be overstated when what employers may really need is imagination, initiative and emotional enthusiasm. I suspect the 20th century Christian concept of "submission" may in fact be more informed by the 20th century concept of industrial labor, then from 1st century scripture. I think its important to note that a self-annihilating concept of obedience can actually make a sincerely submissive Christian more frustrating to an employer then a slightly defiant unbeliever.

20 years ago the metaphor for business was "the machine" which was engineered for heartless efficiency. (Sadly, I think many churches borrowed that metaphor, wherein a Christian is not valuable for who he is, but how he produces.) Now we are in a new post industrial economy, were increasingly businesses are being asked to solve less algorithmic and more creative problems. These creative problems don't get solved by mere submission; they require imagination, optimism, determination, opinions, wills and egos.

As a result many businesses are being forced to question the metaphor of the efficient machine, and instead opt for the metaphor of the inspirational inventor or artist. Such a business requires everyone from top down to selflessly contribute freely their emotional and creative labor without worrying how to quantify everything for trade. "Submission to authority" just doesn't cut it like it used to.

To an employee or a business looking to prove their value in the post-industrial marketplace, Paul's career advice "Servants, obey in all things them that are your masters according to the flesh; not with eye-service, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord:", may need to be enhanced with the emotional and creative generosity of the Sermon on the Mount, "And whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

(unedited for clarity;)

MC

The word holy as applied to God also denotes His grandeur, majesty, eminence. His being worthy of awe and reverence. His state of being separate and above all things, power, personalities, and principalities.

The word holy as applied to things and places denotes being consecrated, or having especial presence or manifestations of God.

The word holy as applied to Christians denotes being separate from the world, of being redeemed and consecrated to the service and glory of God. To his pursuit against sin in his desires, thoughts, and actions. To the pursuit of the fruit of the Holy spirit in his character or inclinations

AMEN!

Some of you have Light that is worth mentioning. I hope our viewers do see that most of this Church Body still operates in an old Cov't mindset. Thinking that Being Holy is a work on our part. Thinking that "turning" from sin mean "I decide what sins I will do and what sins I will have will power over to not fall into." And then when that fails, we decide to do good works to cover up for failing God in our law of, "I'm NOT going to do that sin today..." That's law and when you place yourself under law, You WILL fail! See?

He set us free from the law, to the point that we do not have to worry about Sanctifying ourselves.

To turn from sin means to deny self's power and reckon yourself HIDDEN -IN- Jesus. Anything else is The Sin to God's eyes.

Must eat lunch and share more later- love you all.

Yes, Pilgrim!
You get it! I agree with the NT/ OT statement, they are easy to the Believer.

I just re-listened to the 5 virgin 5 foolish message by Paul white. It's a blessing!

Also, you mentioned about cleansing one's self. How will the rest of us do this? How have you cleansed yourself so far?

Hi Shawn, i was quoting Scripture not commenting about cleansing one's self.

2 Timothy 2:21-21 says, "Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house,ready for every good work."

Paul was writing to Timothy who was ministering at Ephesus and there were some heretical teachers in Ephesus like Hymeneus and Philetus and their followers who were vessels of dishonour from such ones a genuine christians need to seperate themselves from heretical teachings and not to be yoked with the wicked men and take heed of their way, doctrine and walk with God.

As for the flesh that you mentioned in your post, in our context is the carnal nature that is in the total opposite of the spiritual nature in us. The mind of the flesh is enmity with God. There is no remidy for the flesh but to be crusified with its passions and desires. I found a list of the workks of the flesh online that include the attitudes and the actions of the flesh:

"Adultery, an evil eye, anger, backbiter, blasphemer, boaster, covenant breaker, covetous, debater, deceiver, despiser of those that are good, despiteful, disobedient, disobedient to parents, drunks, emulations, envious, evil concupiscence, evil thoughts, false accuser, fierce, filthy communication, foolish, fornications, hater of God, hating one another, heady, heresies, highminded, idolaters, implacable, incontinent, inordinate affection, inventors of evil things, lasciviousness, lovers of pleasures, lovers of their own selves, maliciousness, malignity, murder, proud, revellings, seditions, serving various lusts and pleasures, sorcerers, strife, thefts, traitors, trucebreakers, unclean, unholy, unmerciful, unrighteousness, unthankful, variance, whisperers, wickedness, witchcraft, without natural affection, without understanding, and finally, wrath."

Left to ourselves we are sinful and wrechted creatures. How can i save myself from flesh and all it includes? Impossible isnt it? We know that and only remedy is not by works but by faith in the finished work of Jesus and his person too. And living in the Spirit is possible only by faith and walking in the Spirit is the logical conclusion of a faithful believer who not only believes but obeys the word of God in his daily life.

Doing comes out of being. If we are not in Christ, we are spiritually dead and our self-righteous works are like filthy rags before the sight of God. When i talk of personal holiness, i mean the work of the Holy Spirit in us and thru us, to make us christlike more and more each day.

Blessings
Redi

P. S. - Edited

Hello to all my Brothers and Sister and Enemies!

I have assembled thought from class and personal time with our Lord for you. I pray these nuggets will bless you all and help to understand how God expects us to live for Him:

Repentance.

In the midst of Christ’s council to the churches of Revelation, is the idea of Repentance. The people began to walk their lives out in a manner that was apart from total Faith and reliance in what God can provide/ already has provided. The solution to every situation where we are negating our Spirit Position IN Jesus or ‘living by the flesh,’ is always, to repent!

Repentance is Much more than turning from acts of sin. Repentance will always deal with the depth and core of the heart. We mistake confession for repentance. Confession will get you forgiveness of sins. Repentance will admit you into the Kingdom.

When repentance happens, the state of mind/ state of the heart that we continually be in, is changed. A denial of self effort and will power takes place under Biblical repentance.

You’ll never hear Jesus say a word of condemnation. If you’re hearing condemnation, either you’ve never truly repented or you’re listening to another spirit. In the Church we hear all the time, “The Holy Ghost is here to spend all of His time to point out sin in your life!” If that’s the case, Jesus’ Finished Work did not get finished.

If you feel bad after you sin, you still think that you could have done better; you have not repented. Upon repenting, you are no longer responsible for things done. AND the things you will do. While one may reap the consequences of sin in the body, God however would never count it against us. It’s the same as with doing good things.

We would reap but it certainly does not earn anything with God. The literal meaning of ‘Repentance’ is to ‘change one’s mind.’ So what about willpower? Okay, how are you going about stopping an undesirable act in your life? Alright, if it’s not by willpower then it must be about asking God to “make me a better me?” If you want to be a better YOU, you have not repented. You don’t believe the Gospel like you think you do. You don’t think God has made a good enough Plan through Jesus Crucified to totally hide you IN Him.

If God sees you, no matter how ‘good’ you become in the earth, He must KILL you and throw you in everlasting punishment. Same thing, “help me make better choices God...” This is not belonging to Biblical repentance. You say, then we have no choice! Ah! But we do! Choice comes into the picture but it is not of Law. The choice is to go about this life God’s Way or to go about it the world’s way (Salvation by works and good behavior). It is a “whosoever will... deny himself... come after Me...” choice.

Or maybe we can muster up enough strength in ourselves after Salvation? To combat a spiritual problem? Or you can just repent of self and just go God’s Way! Remember, God abolished through Jesus, the tree of good AND evil. The good in us on our own is still just as bad as the evil. If not worse!!! I think of the Pharisees and other religious rulers.

If you have not repented properly, you will think you have to confession sins everyday. And all day long. This will result in a miserable life and you may very well ultimately end up angry and shipwrecking your own Faith. John the baptist ever said, “Change your ways about how you think you have to live for God and go about attempting to get into God’s Kingdom.”

The core problem with the Church is that many have strayed away from what God offered IN Christ. Repent of that! The result of no repentance is spiritual adultery. And from that proceeds physical adultery and fornications and all manner of sins.

Jesus also said that He comes quickly. He will bear long with our stubbornness but eventually there will come a time when enough is enough. After bearing long with those erring in the Faith, our Father in Heaven must come quickly and deal with that unbelief.

It was mentioned before that the Holy Ghost does not point out acts of sins. However, the Spirit is grieved when we place our object of Faith as anything other than the Cross. Specifically, what was accomplished there. This is The Sin that the Spirit warns us of and steers us away from. When Faith is transferred to anything other than the Cross of Christ, God is angered and it must be judged.

If the believer is believing and resting in the Finished Work of Calvary, God has no legal right to punish the believer for sins. Amen! The ultimate goal of God is not to punish or harm disciples but to get them(us) back on track(Way of Calvary).

Amen, I do pray these words do not seem conflicting with Scripture. I do realize many who will take the time to read these things will see this conflicts with their theology. That is a good thing!

I love you all and pray you have an enjoyable reading or it moves you to ...why, Repentance! Shawn.

(PS Pilgrim,
Though I might say I've done personal study on what 'wrinkle' is and it will bless you to find out what it really is. Has nothing to do with sheets... Really, has all to do with when we are presented before our Lord. It's a Promise! That we will not have these blemishes and scars and things etc...)

Here are additional nuggets I copied from an online source that seems to understand soul vs Spirit and behaviors and discipleship very well.

I've not had the time to go through all of these but they seem solid upon scanning. Enjoy:

Repentance is the outer gate of the Christian faith. (Lk.3:3; Lk.24:47; Jn.10:9)

Repentance precedes faith, but never stands alone. (Mk.1:15; Acts 20:21; Heb.6:1)

The most critical thing in the Christian walk is not faith, but repentance. It is the foundation of our faith, and everything else follows behind it. (Gal.3:23-24; Acts 2:38; Heb.6:1)

The gospel is only good news if you know the bad news first, that you yourself are no good. You do not need a doctor unless you are sick. (1Tim.1:15; Rom.7:18; Mk.2:17)

Repentance denotes the fundamental changing of one’s mind, but connotes the changing of one’s heart, and soul and life; it is more than a mere psychological act. (Acts 3:19; Ps.34:18; 2 Cor. 7.9-11)

An individual repents in the hour he realizes that he (or she) has been fundamentally wrong about everything, and that he or she is the cause of it all, and that there is nothing he or she can do about it by his or her own reason or strength without God’s mercy and power. (Job 40:4; Acts 2:36-38; Ps.40:11-13)

Repentance is total despair of one’s self and this natural world, and the awareness that only God, the real God, the same God who made heaven and earth and made us personally, can bring us hope through his personal mercy and power. (Ps.39:4-8; Ps.51:1,10; Ps.73:26)

Repentance is the confession of our sins, both to ourselves and to God, whom we have wronged. (Ps.25:11; 1Jn.1:8-10; Ps. 51.2-5)

Repentance occurs when an individual knows in the depth of his being that everything he believes, wants, thinks, feels, and does is utterly sinful and evil before God. (Isa.6:5; Rom.3:10-19; Ps.38.4-5)

The Bible says, “Man at his best state is altogether vanity.” (Psalm 39.5)

The Bible says, “Vanity of vanities all is vanity.” (Ecclesiastes 1.2)

Repentance understands three lies: The first lie is that I know God and know what he wants of me.\t (Ps.95:10; Rom.3:11; Jn.1:5,10)\t\t\t

The second lie is that I do not hate God and that I sincerely want to please him.\t(Ps.14:2-3; Rom.7:19; Rom.8:7)

The third lie is that I am able to do the right thing by my own reason, goodness or strength. (Lk.18:19; Col.2:8; Jn.15:5)
Repentance begins when I stop lying to myself and to God and when I realize that “all my righteousness is nothing but a filthy rag.” “Let God be true, and every man a liar. “ (Ps.139:23-24; Jer.17:9; Isa.64:6; Rom.3:4)

By nature, we can gain no true or certain knowledge of God, nor can we know his will, nor do we want to know him or obey him, nor do we intend to submit to him, nor are we capable of doing anything which pleases him. (I Cor. 2:14; Gal.5:17; Rom.7:15-24)

Jesus said, “Apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15.5)

The Bible says, “There is none that seeketh after God.” (Rom. 3.11)

“All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” (Rom. 3.23)

Many Christians experience an initial repentance, feeling sorry or guilty about something they have done, even making a firm decision to change their ways and start on a new path, but they never experience a total or heartfelt repentance and they never grow in the faith or in their walk.\t(2 Tim.3:7; Heb.12:17; Ps.61:2)

Many Christians believe on God and appear to be saved but they only had a sorrow of the soul; they never had a godly repentance of the heart. (Ps.78:8; Ps.66:18; Ps.51:6-8)

Many Christians today are lukewarm in their love for God, because they initially believed in God without quitting this world. They repented spiritually, but not emotionally. Consequently, they are still in love with this life. (Isa.29:13; Ja.4:8; Rev.3:15-19)

Repentance must be heartfelt and continual, not partial and occasional.\t(Matt.3:8-10; Ps.80:18-19; Ps.51:9-12)

All men experience a guilty conscience from time to time. They have feelings of deep remorse and regret over certain things they have thought, said, and done. But this kind of psychological or behavioral repentance is not godly sorrow. It does not lead to true repentance , faith and obedience. (2 Cor.7:9-10; Heb.9:14)

Human repentance is never heartfelt. Those who feel guilty over sin or who are determined by an act of will to change their ways are not broken by God’s Holy Spirit in heartfelt repentance.\t(Heb.3:10; Job 42:5-6; Ps.51:17)

Many people are raised in church with a strong moral and willful mentality, believing that if they just try harder they can please God. But God calls this sin. Human goodness or morality is not the goal. Jesus Christ himself is the goal and only he can perform with His Spirit what he requires. (Col.2:20-23; Gal.3:1-3; Phil.2:12-13)

Godly repentance, which is heartfelt, should not be confused with a psychological or behavioral act or decision, which is mere emotionalism, mysticism, legalism, will-religion and hypocrisy; true repentance always leads to “righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Ja.1:17; Ja.3:17; Rom.14.17)

Feeling guilty about sin and trying to change our behavior is not repentance, but is actually evil, because we are just trying to hide our sin from God and establish our own human righteousness. The only reason we try to hide our sin from God is because we do not believe he loves us unconditionally. (Gen.3:7-10; 1Jn.1:8-10; Ps.32:3-6)

What we usually think of as sin, the breaking of the commandments, is just superficial. The deeper sin is establishing our own righteousness. God hates self - righteousness and is waiting for us to realize that we have nothing to offer him. “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Matt.15:18-20; Matt.23:28; Lk.5:32)

”If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” \t(Jn.1:9)

Jesus erased the line between good and evil. All human goodness is evil. (Matt.23:27; Lk.18:19; Isa.64:6)

False religion has taught Christians that we must change our behavior or God is going to punish us. But true repentance occurs when we realize our whole thinking about what God is like was totally wrong and we understand that God is not out to get us, but instead he wants to give every person an abundant life. “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” (Rom.2:4; 2 Pet.3:9; Jn.10:10-11; Mk.2:27)

Repentance is a fundamental change in our thinking when we realize we pictured God completely wrong, that God does not want us to work at Christianity and that he loves us unconditionally. This is what we repent of, that we did not know this. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matt.3:2; Rev.2:4-5;Matt.11:28-29)

me.

Oh yes, I agree. A brother and I engaged in an arguement over what comes first. I kept saying they both have to happen at the same time. I mean, Faith in something other than self is repenting of your original way of thinking.

But if that's all you got out of it, you missed the point.

I'm sorry to hear that. Would you know anything about sinless perfection? Or about predestination(no choice)?

(:

And yes, we do something. We make a choice. We are born under sin laws. And the only choice is to stay the way we are or go God's Way.

If repentance is shallow, fruits of the Spirit would also be. If you want to go on into the depths(heights) of Christ, it requires a deep, true repentance. Most of the Church never would think twice about this but a disciple will kick and scream all the way and frag feet trying to do his or her own thing w/o deep Biblical repentance.

So if you notice this in your life, check your Faith. A shallow Christian will blame and cuss God for "taking their mother" or letting the dog die. Basically, if anything goes not their way, they complain because they have not died to self yet.

It's not popular and people make excuses all the time to not follow as a disciple. Folk would rather just show up sunday morning and say, "Ok, bless me Lord..." then go eat and laugh it up. Then the slightest problem... they backslide their Faith so quick- because the Lord never really was able to make that person His own Possession like Moses said.

Enjoy!

"Hmm. 'egos'? Is a Christian allowed an ego? Doesn't it get a little bruised, in the battle for supremacy in one's place of employment? Or, is that precisely why you mentioned it - that a 'business' requires a person to give of their deepest treasures, to be a 'profitable' servant?"

You've touched on some important questions here. I would love to explore these in an ongoing discussion, in another thread. Let me know if this area sounds interesting.

To me the idea that business is just about profit, and ego is just about self, are both assumptions I would like to agree with and at the same time disagree with. I agree that these are common worldly assumptions, but I believe there is a "way out" for the Christian. This is important because a Christian can avoid neither business nor ego...not in this life at least.

I am also noticing that many pagans in the new economy are questioning their traditional concepts of business as they search for more human meaning in the unavoidable task of work, while the Christian community is lagging in the discussion, always content to just play the social critic. I think it goes to our talent for being against things without being for anything.

Why are we always against things? We are prisoners of groupthink, wherein it is safer to eliminate everything there is to believe in except platitudes and truisms, rather then risk being wrong.

Now it is important to recognize this discussion isn't really directed to churches, or the Church per se. Neither is it directed to the business community, or the government, or any other institution suffering from groupthink. It is directed at the individual conscience who must answer to God.

Because when we learn to stand for something as individuals, not as churches, businesses, schools, governments.... maybe we take our first step in learning the correct purpose of those earthly human institutions, and can imagine how they are not automatically corrupt, but made so through corrupt thinking.

MC

because I'm utterly bewildered by the doctrine which says we do anything, prior to having been stirred up enough

Hello
I may have misread what you meant by this. There are two conflicting thoughts you have written. Plus I did not see at first what you meant by "only reading so far." I took that as you only read a little and decided to quit because it did not agree w/ your theology. I am corrected.

I think we may be on a similar track after all, forgive me.

But did you think that I meant we "do" something to trigger God's approval before we can hear the Gospel? Not sure what you meant there.

Plus "being stirred up enough..." I hope you do not mean emotionally! Because emotion will have to be used for the rest of that believer's life to keep that person in the faith, in that case. And if "emotion" is not achieved around ever corner, the believe would "feel" condemned. And that's what I'm about this for, so others can avoid this in their lives.

It all comes down to what you believe as your foundation. It will determine how you view every Scripture. And I mean every... If you think God is an angry judge then you will work to earn His approval. And view the Scriptures as, "I have to keep them to show God I love Him..." But if you know only God is Good and we are haters of God, are completely unqualified for His Grace and Mercy and can do nothing for ourselves, THEN, you are qualified. Cool huh!?

No harm intended- this is great stuff for folk to catch on to. No laughing movement and self outward creepy things in this doctrine!

shawn.

PS, have a good night Christian soldiers.

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