sermonindex
Archived
Sign In / Register
Why True Protestants REJECT the pope!
S
S
sermonindex
How can you not reject anyone that purports to take Jesus Christ's place on earth temporally and spiritually?
My mother (who is Catholic) says, "there aren't protestants anymore. We don't call them that. No one is protesting today".
In some ways she is right. The local "Christian" radio channel was all gaga when the Pope was coming to America, this past January (is that when it was). I was a bit shocked. Not too much, just a bit.
Used to be that they were considered a cult like mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses, but what I am observing is that they are more and more accepted as Christians. Yet, they do not adhere to the doctrine of Christ. (There is another thread going on about the importance of doctrine).
They believe in human mediators (their clergy) between God and man, that you bring God inside of you by eating a wafer, that you can pray to dead people and that Mary intercedes for us. And there is more and more, ad nauseaum.
S
sermonindex
The Catholic Church is no longer an adversary in these parts because no one is killing anyone over their faith. We have other fish to fry within our own organization, namely false doctrine, flighty birds, goats ducks and sheep.The local "Christian" radio channel was all gaga when the Pope was coming to America, this past January (is that when it was). I was a bit shocked. Not too much, just a bit.
S
sermonindex
This has always been a point of contention for me. Christians, or so-called Christians I should say, are completely ignorant not just of scripture but also of history!
Listen loud and clear, the Catholic Church is no friend of true Bible believing Christians. And the current ecumenical movement, especially in America is apostate to the core.
As for Christian radio stations, I don't know about other stations across America, but WMIT in Asheville, NC (founded by Billy Graham) has regulated one of the most sound Bible teachers in America... John MacArthur... to 4am in the morning. Why? Because he speaks out the truth and is not afraid to call a spade a spade... particularly the Catholic Church. So they put him on the air at a time when hardly anyone is listening so that he does not "offend anyone".
You know what offends me? "Christians" who are too spineless to speak the truth... and instead suppress the truth.
J
Joyful_Heart
I am so thankful for everything you all have said. I have been wondering about my thoughts on the Catholic Doctrine and your comments have really been confirmation.
It used to be that we hated the doctrine. I just read Reese Howells book and he looked upon the doctrine as extremely false and even a danger to the work of God.
My daughter married a Catholic and became one. She is in all the way. All I do is love her and pray. But we were invited to her in-laws house for Easter dinner several years back and her father-in-law was sitting reading a book, Protestants attack on Catholics. He never spoke to me at dinner or the whole time I was there. His own daughter could never step foot in his house or had communication with them due to the fact she was divorced. Then recently she repented and my daughter was in tears with joy that she has come back to the Church! Not Jesus, but the Church. Her hubby & family protected her from us "protestants" for years.
Then the Pope before this one came in and kind of united the two and all of a sudden we were tolerant of each other and it has been going on this way for a long time. I just don't get it still though. I watched the inaugurations thinking I would have an open mind. Maybe I am missing something here. But when I watched I was nauseated due to the pomp and well, it was just the opposite, total opposite of who Jesus is entirely. I had to turn it off and ask the Lord if this is of Him then please change my heart.
Even as a very young child I asked my Mother, why was the Pope so important. He didn't die for our sins. What about Jesus? She had no answer.
I know there are many who love our Lord Jesus and are saved but I guess I wonder how they can stay in a doctrine like this one when they read the Bible so much.
Why are there eyes still closed?
Please, I dont mean to offend anyone at all. I am saying the Doctrine is wrong. The people are deeply loved. I suggest we all ask the Holy Spirit to take us to Jesus and reveal Truth. I have asked Him that even before I knew Him.
God help us all to know You and Truth Dear Lord. Help us. And Glorify Yourself. Amen
S
sermonindex
How can a person be a "believer" if they do not understand who God is? The Catholic god is not the God of the Bible.
I'm not trying to be mean, believe me.
I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!" Well, I can not judge another man's heart, I understand that. But people can not be Christians and believe any ol' thing (doctrine) that they want to, especially concerning salvation.
Are we prepared to say that there are saved Mormons or saved JW's... or saved Mormons? If not, then why are we willing to give a pass to the largest false religion in the history of mankind: The Roman Catholic Church?
S
sermonindex
I have met one Catholic (who was raised Presbyterian, but married a Catholic) who I thought might be saved.
Catholicism is a cult, and is diametrically opposed to Christianity. It is wholly evil.
God bless,
Joel >.
2 Chronicles 7:14.
S
sermonindex
It's important to separate the people from the religious system. If you were a priest in a Catholic only community, and you came to know the Lord, would you just abandon your flock to whomever would come after you if you resigned, or would you stay, and do whatever was in your power to preach the truth while it was still in your power?How can a person be a "believer" if they do not understand who God is? The Catholic god is not the God of the Bible.I'm not trying to be mean, believe me.
I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!" Well, I can not judge another man's heart, I understand that. But people can not be Christians and believe any ol' thing (doctrine) that they want to, especially concerning salvation.
Are we prepared to say that there are saved Mormons or saved JW's... or saved Mormons? If not, then why are we willing to give a pass to the largest false religion in the history of mankind: The Roman Catholic Church?
I don't know how we can possibly judge that a person who attends a Catholic church, is definitely not saved or vice versa. Only God sees the whole truth about their situation, hears their prayers, and knows their heart.
But I agree completely that the religious system is dangerous to souls who trust it, because it sets out to keep them in bondage to man, and to hide the truth that Jesus Christ died for ALL sin and ALL sinners, and there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven by whom we are saved.
Furthermore, it is not what they are now which will determine their eternal future, but what they are when they die. Same applies to us, as we sharpen our doctinal swords amongst ourselves, and polish our virtual armour.
J
jimp
hi,we all know all these problems that church has with doctrines.but do not let their problem become your problem... i have seen hundreds of catholics get truly saved...i have even seen a homosexual,female impersonating, catholic get really saved...i even saw myself get saved...amazing grace...loving Redeemer...mighty Spirit...thank you Lord...but if you get so upset with the church someone attends and protects you will never see the people get saved and set free that attend that church . we are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.leave the pope and coredemtion and transfiguration alone and talk to them about Jesus dying on the cross for them personally and allow the
Spirit to move ...jimp use their jerusalem bible and show them what it says about what it means to know Him.
S
sermonindex
Well, I hear ya brother on this and I think these particular catholics are really charismatic which is a whole lot different than what goes on upstairs in the main cathedral. In the basement the Spirit of God moves amongst open minded people that want God. But they get put down if they bring that to the real catholic church. While Pope John Paul welcomed the Spirit of God in the basement of his Churches, this current Pope wants to close those doors, and they are feeling the pinch of that already and they will have to make a decision, carry on with the motions of catholicism or burst out. I think they will do the latter.I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!
S
sermonindex
the sermon Greg featured this week by Brother Len Ravenhill
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=17134
"Where is the Fire?"
much better balm, it makes one squirm with a sense of MY OWN UNPROFITABILITY!
which includes pinning up the previous sermon.
L
learn
[by Alive-to-God on 2010/11/14 13:55:35
If you were a priest in a Catholic only community, and you came to know the Lord, would you just abandon your flock to whomever would come after you if you resigned, or would you stay, and do whatever was in your power to preach the truth while it was still in your power?]
The thing is the priest won't be able to do that because the church will not allow it. If you want to know how it is like to try to do that, you can look up Richard Bennett, a former Catholic priest who came to know God during that time and that he tried to do just that but eventually had to leave the church. His testimony is below.
S
sermonindex
I think someone suggested I said Catholics can not get saved, and that certainly is not what I said at all. However, should a Catholic get saved one of the evidences of salvation is that person will grow in the Lord and become more knowledgable in the Word... and eventually they will have to come out of the Catholic Church.
Also, anyone who holds to and believes in Catholic doctrine, especially as it pertains to salvation... is not saved. There is only one plan of salvation and it is not the Catholic one.
A Catholic priest who gets saved and starts preaching the truth of the Word of God will be driven out. Staying will not be an option.
And I've seen folks say, even on this site, that some will stay in a church that is not preaching the truth in order to execute a change within that church. This is a fallacy and it is disobedience to the Word of God. We are called to be separate and holy and to "come out". We are not called to be unequally yoked.
Personally, and this is open for debate, I do not even think that Bible believers should join hands with Catholics (or any other religion) in something like the pro-life movement. In doing so we send the wrong message, and that message is evil.
I say that with absolutely NO hatred in my heart toward anyone... I just believe that our FIRST allegiance is to the Lord, and to obedience to His Word.
S
sermonindex
Here is a statement and a question.
Statement:
I believe when a Catholic (I was raised Catholic) gets saved and filled with God's Word and the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit will lead that person out of the false church of Catholicism. The pagan rituals and bloodless crucifixion of Jesus Christ, weekely is grievous to the Holy Spirit. When I started reading the Word, it delivered me (the truth) from all my former beliefs.
Question:
Concerning other false churches within Protestantism full of man-made doctrines and traditions.
Why aren't people being led by the Holy Spirit out of other false churches and kindgoms of man? Is it the Holy Spirit's fault?
S
sermonindex
Here's a list of possible answers:
1) disobedience
2) rebellion
3) ignorance
4) apathy
5) laziness
6) not really saved in the first place
7) etc... etc... etc...
It's not really about "Protestism" anyway. It's about whether a church is preaching the truth gospel. A church can call itself whatever it wants to. God is not concerned with that. God is concerned with "Is the Truth of My Word being preached and obeyed?"
If it is a false church then the answer is "no"... and those who refuse to leave it and separate and have nothing to do with it have to answer to God for it.
Once a church goes off the rails it rarely ever gets back on track. I've never once in my life ever seen a train wreck where the train eventually righted itself and got back to the business of being a train.
Leave... get off the train before you become one of the victims!
S
sermonindex
Also, I think you can add the "fear of man".
Their friends and family may go to the same church and it has become more of a social club and if they left, they would lose their friends or family or at the least be ridiculed and misunderstood. Many traditions have been handed down to us from our ancestors and we just continue to believe what has been handed down.
Truth preached is not the only important thing, by the way.
Sadly, it has become the measuring stick, today for a congregation that is alive in God. Nothing could be further from the truth.
What people should look for is the life of the Spirit of God in the members of the church. Is divine fruit being produced. If not, then those hearing the preaching of the truth are only "hearers of the Word", and ultimately rebellious to the Spirit of God.
Are the members of the Body being obedient to the truth is the question. Are they allowing the Spirit of God to conform them to the image of Christ? Are they a yielded and surrendered people overflowing with the fruit of the Spirit.
Not is the truth being preached.
People shop around for "who is preaching the truth". But that is a deception, also. We have just exchanged one idol for another. Who is the best preacher of truth, the best teacher, etc, etc. Thinking that their church will also have the most obedient and surrendered saints, overflowing with the life of God.
Jesus said, do what the Pharisees say, but don't do what they do. He ratified what they were saying, but He did not ratify their living, their life.
If your criteria for gathering with people is the "preaching of the truth" and not genuine fruit that can only be produced by the Spirit of God, then you will just be in a Pharisaical congregation.
And you are right, it is not about Protestantism anyway, but since most on SI are probably from that camp, it applies to us to also know that Protestatism has it's false churches, too. Many of them,
The Babylonian religious system is not just Catholic, but all false churches. Anything built and led by the flesh, which is enmity with God.
I
iceman9
True Biblical Christians believe that we are saved by our faith in Christ’s work on the cross.
"By grace you have been saved though faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any one should boast" Eph 2:8-10
The Catholic Church says that is not possible. Faith alone cannot save you. Below are two of the 33 of the Justification Canons from the Council of Trent’s sixth session.
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.
CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.
In other words, if you think you can be saved by faith in Christ alone; you are dammed to hell.
Totally contrary to the Scriptures.
I continue to pray for and share the truth of the Scriptures with Catholics I know.
I would hope that anyone who is truly saved and who is searching the scriptures daily to see if what they are being taught is true and would leave any organization (JW, Mormon, Catholic, Emergent Church or any other church that are teaching false doctrine).
Remember:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
God be with you,
Brian
S
sermonindex
Their friends and family may go to the same church and it has become more of a social club and if they left, they would lose their friends or family or at the least be ridiculed and misunderstood. Many traditions have been handed down to us from our ancestors and we just continue to believe what has been handed down.
This is true. And Jesus said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26-33
What people should look for is the life of the Spirit of God in the members of the church. Is divine fruit being produced. If not, then those hearing the preaching of the truth are only "hearers of the Word", and ultimately rebellious to the Spirit of God.
This, of course, is also true and goes without saying.
I will say this though... it all begins with the preaching of the truth. If you do not have the preaching of the truth of the gospel then nothing else can take root. Our responsibility is to preach the clear truths of the Bible and let God do the rest. ONLY God can regenerate a man's heart. Salvation is of the Lord, period.
If a man has been truly regenerated he WILL obey. If he does not, then he is not saved. Does not mean the saved man is perfect because "sinless perfection" is a lie and a myth... but it does mean he will daily strive toward holiness under the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
S
sermonindex
This, of course, is also true and goes without saying.
I think that is the problem, though. We say that "it goes without saying". We take it for granted that the fruit and life of the Spirit will be there.
We major on doctrine and minor on fruit.
I am sure you probably don't mean for your statemnet to come across like that.
If people have true fruit from the Holy Spirit, then their doctrine of Christ is going to be in line with the Spirit of God and the Word. But, if they have the greatest preacher and the greatest sermons, the opposite is not necessarily true.
S
sermonindex
What I meant was of course following the proclamation of the Truth there must be the fruit of obedience. Otherwise you are correct... there is nothing.
But without the proclamation of the Truth there can BE no fruits of obedience.
Kinda like which came first? The chicken of the Ford?
S
sermonindex
I agree the life of Christ in us, is attained by the proclamation of the truth and is maintained by obedience to the truth (Him).
But you do agree also, that the truth can be proclaimed, but if it does not get past our heads into our hearts then no fruit will come, right? We see that all around us today.
There are sermons, seminars, books, tapes, CDs, special guests, "anointed" speakers, etc., etc., and yet look at the condition of the so-called church.
Something is wrong. Something is definitely not working. We have more materials than anyone has ever had, and yet the same cannot be said about the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. Over 12,000 church splits a year and people that proclaim the name of Jesus and His truth, cannot get together and be one in Him.
S
sermonindex
Well... who is the revealer of truth? God.
If the truth has not been revealed to a man's heart then it is because God, in His sovereignty, has decided not to reveal it to him... at least not yet.
A man may know the truth in his head, but not have it revealed to his heart. That is completely in God's hands.
Our systems and programs designed to reveal truth to man will never work on their own.
S
sermonindex
Something is wrong. Something is definitely not working. We have more materials than anyone has ever had, and yet the same cannot be said about the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. Over 12,000 church splits a year and people that proclaim the name of Jesus and His truth, cannot get together and be one in Him.
In response to this part in particular... whats wrong is that the vast majority of "Christians" do not know the Word of God, and have no desire to study to know the Word of God. AND... the vast majority of "Christians" have no prayer life.
So-called "Christians" are not walking with God. Thats what is wrong.
S
sermonindex
learn stated
I hear what you're saying. One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put, but I'm unwilling to conclude that we can assume they are not right with God. Only time, and the Judge of all, can make that call. Most people would eventually find it as intolerant as the man in the example you gave.The thing is the priest won't be able to do that because the church will not allow it.
If you want to know how it is like to try to do that, you can look up Richard Bennett, a former Catholic priest who came to know God during that time and that he tried to do just that but eventually had to leave the church.
S
sermonindex
I hear what you're saying. One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put, but I'm unwilling to conclude that we can assume they are not right with God. Only time, and the Judge of all, can make that call. Most people would eventually find it as intolerant as the man in the example you gave.
Let's be clear on something... what I said was if they are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic Church for salvation... they are as lost as a person can be. They are not saved by how sincerely they believe in Catholic doctrine, or by how much they love the god of the Catholic Church... or by how devout they are.
They are only saved by grace alone, through faith alone... in Jesus Christ alone. If they are truly saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone then the Catholic Church says that they are condemmned to hell (anathema). The Catholic Church's words, not mine. I'm just quoting.
And one of the evidences that they have been regenerated is they will grow spiritually, and at some point God will lead them out of their false church as He reveals truth to them.
If they claim to have been regenerated but do not grow in the Lord, and in knowledge, and they are content to stay in a false religion then their salvation is suspect.
S
sermonindex
Let's be clear on something... what I said was if they are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic Church for salvation... they are as lost as a person can be. They are not saved by how sincerely they believe in Catholic doctrine, or by how much they love the god of the Catholic Church... or by how devout they are.
It is true that we cannot say who is saved or not.
We cannot say that someone in the Catholic church who is listening to false doctrine is not saved anymore than you can say that someone in a Protestant church who is listening to false doctrine is not saved.
However we can say and the Gospel is clear that salvation does not come by trusting in your own works of righteousness for justification.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is always trying to lead believers to truth and away from error.
S
sermonindex
In response to this part in particular... whats wrong is that the vast majority of "Christians" do not know the Word of God, and have no desire to study to know the Word of God.AND... the vast majority of "Christians" have no prayer life. So-called "Christians" are not walking with God. Thats what is wrong.
Bingo! They know the Word of God as taught by the precepts of men and think that they know the Word as taught from God, the Holy Spirit.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
We need to make sure we are not following the precepts of men. We could be and we should always be on the alert for mixture (leaven) in our lives.
S
sermonindex
I think we're on the same page, dude... it just took us awhile to realize it! lol
S
sermonindex
It takes awhile to get there with text. But in a room together it would take 2 minutes. A lot of time and writing goes into communication on this site. I am seriously considering cutting back. Blessings to you, Pilgrim
S
sermonindex
Yea, and a lot of misunderstandings and arguments happen here that would not otherwise if people were speaking face to face. A lot gets lost.
Glad we were patient with each other, brother.
L
learn
[by Alive-to-God on 2010/11/15 11:56:57
I hear what you're saying. One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put, but I'm unwilling to conclude that we can assume they are not right with God. Only time, and the Judge of all, can make that call. Most people would eventually find it as intolerant as the man in the example you gave.]
For me, the longer they stay in the Catholic church, the more likely they may not be saved. However, whether they are truly saved or not, I cannot say for sure.
But there's 1 thing that will sway me more towards believing them not being saved (although of course this is never 100% certain) and that is if they say and believe this :
"I'm saved because I believe in Jesus as my saviour. However, people from other religions eg: Buddhist etc can be saved too. They don't need to believe that Jesus is the way for them. However, for me, I believe Jesus is the way for me.
OR
I believe in Jesus and that's why I'm saved. However, I do not try to convert people from other religions. If they are Hindus, I encourage them to be better Hindus, if they are Buddhists, I encourage them to be better Buddhists etc."
Why do I say that. Because for me this faith seems to be their own faith and not saving faith ie faith that comes from God. The bible is very clear that Jesus is the only way and that every knee shall bow to him. I cannot imagine a saved person (unless he's extremely new to the faith or at the point in time very distant from God due to too much sin) to say this, because where is God's glory in this, what's the point of preaching the gospel and when will God allow this type of saying to pass from the lips of a saved person that has walked with Him for years.(God will work in a saved person's life to yearn for Him, the bible, to follow His commands etc--so he will not be 'naive/ignorant' to say those words in the earlier paragraph).
Also, my previous pastor mentioned that Paul was persecuted because he said there was only 1 God (1 way to Heaven). If he were to acknowledge the other Gods and Jesus just being 1 of the God, then he wouldn't have been persecuted in 1 of his journey/teaching (in Rome I believe where there were many Gods)
Miracles abound in all sorts of religion--Catholic, Christian, Hindu etc. There are unsaved people that are more pious and produce more good works than those that are genuinely saved (eg: Gandhi).
If we base whether a person is saved on just the 'fruit of the spirit' /good works and/or miracles, then we can get deceived easily. That's why we have to rely on the bible. The bible mentioned that people would be deceived by miracles etc. So to prevent ourselves not to be deceived, we need to know what the bible teaches. That's 1 reason why the bible is so important.
When we are willing to put the bible 1st and foremost instead of how respected and self-sacrificing the person is (from whatever faith--be it Catholic, Christian, Hindu etc), that is when we will be better able to discern. That is when God will give you the understanding so much faster and you will know that it is not an intellectual understanding, but one that is from God.
Edit to add: I also believe that for those that are persecuted badly (eg: the persecuted church worldwide), even when they don't have the complete bible, you will find something very common among them all. The urgency and love to preach the Gospel--to bring people to Christ. And that's why I say those that believe other religions are saved or don't try to convert are either false believers or if they are true believers (they are just too new to the faith and not persecuted AND/OR too much sins currently whilch ultimately they have to repent).
I will also say that when Catholics and Christians are undergoing severe persecution (eg: in jails and being tortured), these Catholics that still hold to the faith are more likely saved and not false believers if when they are in prison and tortured greatly , these Catholics when they preach in prison, they will be preaching about Jesus and not about allegiance to the church, Mary etc. When they talk about sufferings, they talk about Jesus's sufferings and not Mary's sufferings, when they talk about being comforted, they talked about being comforted by God and not by praying to Mary and so the list goes. That's 1 very telling way of knowing whether a person is really saved in this instance.
S
sermonindex
Hi Homeskooldad,
(EDIT: I've moved my reply to learn, to the next post.)
I'm not sure if we have a misunderstanding. I'm not sure to whose post I originally responded, but learn quoted mine in reply, and so I replied to learn.
You said
Please, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, so could you try and listen to what I 'am' saying? First, I don't disagree with your quote above. I am not talking about people who are totally in agreement with the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, but who really have come to the know the Lord, by whatever means He chose to reveal Himself to them.Let's be clear on something... what I said was if they are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic Church for salvation... they are as lost as a person can be. They are not saved by how sincerely they believe in Catholic doctrine, or by how much they love the god of the Catholic Church... or by how devout they are.They are only saved by grace alone, through faith alone... in Jesus Christ alone. If they are truly saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone then the Catholic Church says that they are condemmned to hell (anathema). The Catholic Church's words, not mine. I'm just quoting.
Second, 'so what' if the Catholic church calls salvation (yours, mine, a priest's) 'anathema'? What are any of us to do about it? Yes, if we became saved in the Roman Catholic Church, God is calling us out IN OUR HEARTS, primarily. What that looks like in practice, though, may vary from person to person, for many reasons which GOD allows. What's important is that WHEN a person KNOWS they should leave - because they understand this is what the Holy Spirit is speaking in them - THEY LEAVE. Perhaps we can agree on that point?
Further, I feel there is biblical precedent for circumspection at times.
John 7:13 Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
John 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave [him] leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. 39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night...'
John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
While Jesus is standing in the midst of the fearful situation, there is a) nothing to fear, and b) no need to move.
I'm not saying 'this is the only way', but only that it's all very well to think if YOU were the one contemplating the choice to rip your entire community apart by leaving the priesthood very publicly, you might hesitate until you were entirely certain this is how God wants you to do it.
For instance, you might start sharing the gospel privately, with as many of your parishoners as possible, before giving any hint that you can't carry on in with your public role - or until someone makes it public to the authorities, and pressure is brought to bear on you to make a public or private choice.
How much of your reptutation would you be prepared to see go down the drain, for the name of Jesus Christ?
http://truepreaching.com/view/520/persecution-or-a-great-awakening-paul-washer-1/
L
learn
[by Alive-to-God on 2010/11/15 14:32:19
EDIT:
hello learn, I think you posted while I was replying. I'm reading your post now. If I think there is something to add, I'll edit this post again. end edit.]
Hi Alive to God,
Sorry but I edited it to add more things. You may have to read it again before posting your reply. Thanks.
S
sermonindex
Hi learn. Okay. I'm going back! I'm reading your post now...
Really, my idea of salvation is the same as yours, and my reference to a priest being saved would be on exactly the same terms as you and I are, by biblical parameters. This is what I've had in mind all along.
Your mention of miracles sparks a thought in me which is new - not designed to take this thread off track; it's this: was Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give', REPLACED by Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen'?
I ask because I do believe in the miracles of Jesus, and without doubt in some parts of the world He is still doing them through His body on earth. They are important to some people, just as signs were important to the Jews, and Jesus expected those who saw HIS miracles, to respond by glorifying God and repenting. I'm reluctant to say they're a thing of the past - or ought to be - and I don't think we can abandon such manifestations of God's power on earth today, purely because His adversary has convincing counterfeits.
The stations of the cross, cannot but remind a Roman Catholic of Christ's sufferings. But, if that person doesn't understand these are the ONLY sufferings necessary for our salvation, then even if they don't mention Mary, they may well promote the necessity of other obeissances from within Roman Catholic doctrine - which we have already agreed, are not biblical.When they talk about sufferings, they talk about Jesus's sufferings
PS - I do realise that a great deal of bondage exists under Roman Catholic doctrine. There is bondage in the world. There is bondage in 'protestant' church doctrines, too, but, IF the Son therefore shall MAKE you free, ye shall be free indeed - John 8:36.
S
sermonindex
Is there a better place to attend to obtain good preaching? I find it hard as it is to get anything out of our Pentecostal Baptist churches today, truth wise. So really, I personally I think they should stay right where they are and be a light amongst darkness.One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put
S
sermonindex
Is that why people gather together? To hear good preaching?
Maybe you are right.
I just wonder if that is why they gathered together in the early church and why they gather together in underground churches around the world.
S
sermonindex
Snuf... doesn't matter what you "think"... it only matters what scripture says. Paul said to mark and AVOID those who teach falsely. You can not find one piece of scripture to support what you're saying.
S
sermonindex
I believe in Jesus and that's why I'm saved. However, I do not try to convert people from other religions. If they are Hindus, I encourage them to be better Hindus, if they are Buddhists, I encourage them to be better Buddhists etc."
Mother Teressa right? Truly one of the saddest statement's I've ever heard. It really makes me uncomfortable when Christians quote her life or statements and try to paint her as a woman of faith, when statements as vile as these were the core of her "belief" in God.
It honestly shouldn't be too difficult an issue. You can break it down rather simply.
Does the Blood of Christ atone for all sins, or do you atone in purgatory for your own?
Is salvation by faith alone, or is it by the sacraments?
Is Jesus Christ seated in heaven in a resurrected body, or is He a cracker that you eat (literally) at mass?
Can a person be saved and be a Catholic? Of course.
Can a person be saved and remain a Catholic? Not a chance.
True worshipers worship in spirit AND in truth. We must love Catholics to death. But because of this love we must hate the Catholic church that's poisoning them.
S
sermonindex
I have actually had people get upset with me when I state that Mother Teresa showed no signs of ever believing the truth of the gospel message. To the end she expressed faith in the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church. She proved this when she expressed doubt at the end of her life of whether she had been good enough to get into heaven.
And Christians get mad at me when I say that. Why? Because even people who claim to believe the truth of the gospel look at her and think "look at all the good works she did! She is one of the best people who ever lived! Surely God will not send her to hell!" (and by the way... God does in fact send sinners to hell. There is a lie in evangelicalism that God does not send people to hell, people choose to go to hell. That is unscriptural. If hell is "punishment", then God punishes unregenerate sinners by sending them to hell.)
But guess what, as good a person as Mother Teresa was, if she never believed the truth of the gospel and was never saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone... she did all that good work in vain, and right this very moment she is in hell. Period.
And I take no pleasure in making that statement, but it's the truth. Anything else would be a lie.
L
learn
I'm sensing that this thread may potentially degenerate into one of self-righteousness on Christians getting it right and Catholics being wrong or unless you have done as much good as this person, you have no right to judge him etc. I guess I may have opened a can of worms by paraphrasing a saying of M. Theresa but that is what I believe in and was hoping that people will realize that you really have to follow the bible or face the possibility of being misled (yes--EverestoSama--you guessed right that it was her). The thread has not become this yet and I hope that it will not be.
Instead I hope that this thread will become one where we can see how we can persuade the Catholics to come out of the Roman Catholic Church and rely solely on Jesus being their saviour and Lord.
There is a verse which I cannot recall now but it talks about telling him gently so that he repents from his sins. And that is the verse that we should keep in mind when we are talking to Catholics. Perhaps somebody will be able to say the verse.
Also keep in mind,
Matthew 10:16
....Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves
Post edited
S
sermonindex
Let's not let the thread become one of self-righteousness on Christians getting it right and Catholics being wrong or unless you have done as much good as this person, you have no right to judge him etc.
This is about scripture being right... and scripture is very clear. And having correct theology CAN lead to self-righteousness, but I get really irritated when people accuse Christians who are confident in what they believe of being "self righteous".
To think that it's wrong for Christians to be confident that the Bible is true and clear and understandable is nothing more than post-modern mumbo jumbo.
Notice I said "I take no pleasure in saying that"... and that is the truth. Who in their right mind could?
(I'll probably get accused of being mad at you, but trust me I am not. I am passionate about the truth and about the Word of God. I think if a man is not passionate about the Word of God then he needs to examine his heart to see if he is truly in the faith.)
L
learn
I have no problem with you being confident. But bear in mind when we are trying to convince the other, our confidence if we are not able to articulate it well and with compassion and respect to the other party can put people off, give them the impression that we are self-righteous and make them close their ears to us. And instead of hoping that our effors will result in them being converted will only turn them further away from what we are trying to convey. That's why I wanted to post the verse in the bible which teaches us how we should go about doing such things but I cannot remember what verse it is. If I can recall it, I will post the verse.
S
sermonindex
Hi learn
Was it here?I wanted to post the verse in the bible which teaches us how we should go about doing such things
2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
S
sermonindex
believe me, i feel tremendously grieved that i even started this thread.
i still feel rome is a hellish prison, the system of rome, but sometimes, one is best advised to keep their tongues in their mouth, let God be God, and He will take care of all unrighteousness and sinfulness, and i pray i dont get hammered too bad by Him at the Bema Seat.
so i beg you all..........just let love cover everything, cozs i messed up, neil
S
sermonindex
Maybe this is why Jesus said in Matthew 13 to let the wheat and tares grow up together until the end of the time. Because in pulling up the tares, you may destroy some wheat, also.
S
sermonindex
Maybe this is why Jesus said in Matthew 13 to let the wheat and tares grow up together until the end of the time. Because in pulling up the tares, you may destroy some wheat, also.
a very good word, Pilgrim. Praise the Name of the Lord, i learned something today. Thank you brother.
neil
L
learn
HomeSkoolDad, for clarification, my previous post and the post below was on us persuading the Catholics and not between us in case I wasn't clear enough. Have no problems with you or your post.
Edit:
Alive-to-God, thanks, yes that's the verses although I was more focused on verses 25-26 but 24 is also good.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
I believe that's the way we should go about it when we are faced with people that we believe likely to be lost. At least, this is how I plan to do it.
S
sermonindex
Natan4Jesus,
You seem like a long lost friend to me. Have we met before?
R
roadsign
Neil said:
believe me, i feel tremendously grieved that i even started this thread.
I hear you, brother!
Yet good can come from this too. We can learn more about ourselves. At least, I have found that I learn about myself when I ponder over what I have said or wrote. And it’s not always pretty, after the fact. I’ve been there – criticizing the RC church, (I grew up Protestant) There indeed are plenty of reasons to do so, and many Catholics would agree with me. But then there are plenty of reasons to condemn the evangelicalism too!
For most of my life I assumed that the Pope was the Antichrist and bound for hell – because that’s all I ever heard. Recently I read Pope John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body”. Clearly that is a stellar work – a light in the Catholic Church. You must read it before you say anything about this man. That work shows a huge progress in understanding of celibacy, the sanctity of the body, the sanctity of marital fidelity, the cross, chastity outside marriage, the symbolism of Christ and the church through marriage, etc. This literary work is closer to scripture than some of our evangelical writers have produced.
Our calling is not to put people in camps. It’s not about who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong. We are called to be a light in the darkness. But we are not a light when we are condemning with broad sweeping accusations. Then we are in the wrong. And that is exactly what, historically, has been the cause of so many religious wars.
Not long ago I was in Toronto on a Sunday. I prayed that God would lead me to a church. The Spirit led me, of all places to a Catholic church! I was totally amazed. As they sang, “Refiner's Fire” with a quality, humble praise team, the Spirit touched me to the core. The homily was also truly of God. It was a carefully thought out message, and also was supported in the rest of the service – totally Scripture and Christ centered. There were no icons or statues in the church, interestingly. But the presence of the Lord was there - through the priests.
My attendance at that mass, I believe was an act of repentance – called by God. It was not about needing to agree or disagree - but about learning to allow God to be God – anywhere.
Diane
R
roadsign
More thoughts
This is just a general reflection about the way we handle the perceived wrong of others –and trust me, I am “preaching” here to myself!
Whenever I address another person’s religious convictions, I am really treading on THEIR holy ground. I suppose it would be like having a herd of pigs trampling in one Sunday morning onto my religious space – just when I am being comforted and blessed. It shouldn’t surprise me when I solicit an antagonistic response, in my attempt to remove their “speck” (or rather, gouge at it). My accusations trigger within them, an urge to defend themselves. Don’t we do tend to do that when we feel cornered by someone’s (perceived) criticism of ourselves? But that is not the path to the cross. It is the path to divisiveness. We drive them AWAY from the cross, rather than towards it. And we fail to display the fruit of the Spirit - the very means which we are to draw others to Christ.
Here is where, I think, we would do well to keep God’s purposes for humankind in mind – such as John 3:16, and many others. We are NOT called to pronounce swathing judgments against others – because when we do, some arrows of judgment will come back at us (Rom.2) This is not to say that we set aside the need for discernment. It’s just that our role is NOT to attack others, or put them on the defensive (which inevitably invites their arrows or “bombs” back on us).
One way, I believe, that we can break down this huge wall of division between Protestants and Catholics is by examining our common tendencies and our common need. Let’s face it, after the Reformation, many of the “reformed” churches looked almost as Catholic than before – at least in the way they gravitated towards “old wine skin” religion. That is a human tendency, and none of us are exempt, regardless of which denominational ‘camp’ we are in.
I would like God to break down my own need to be “right”, my penchant to stand just a bit higher than the other guy and look down on that person as lesser than me. May God help me remember that I am a sinner too – and made from the same “stuff” that arose in the Garden of Eden. I also bit into that fruit, and I too would like to use knowledge of good and evil to elevate myself over others. In that sense, I am a stumbling block in their path to the cross. I am not hospitable to them, and I don't show them the nature of God.
I need God just as much as the other person does - every moment of every day.
Diane
S
sermonindex
We are NOT called to pronounce swathing judgments against others – because when we do, some arrows of judgment will come back at us
We are called to proclaim the truth of scripture. Unfortunately when we do that many (including Christians, as evidenced by this thread) become offended. But it is not the proclaimer of the truth that is judgeing. No no... it is the truth that judges.
Thats the mistake people make when someone like me says what they say about false religions like the Roman Catholic Church. And don't worry, the Bible has a lot to say about much of the foolishness in evangelicalism too.
S
sermonindex
The Bible is full of pronunciation of judgements against false religions and their leaders, beginning with the Holy Spirit speaking through ALL of the prophets, John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Himself, and all of the Apostles. You cannot honestly read the bible, and not see this.
This does not make the true Christian superior, or righteous, because he or she discerns what is error, and what is life. Life is a Person. We are called to serve and obey that Person, and the failure to discern that which is of Him, and that which is not, may kill us.
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." ....Jesus...when he healed a man on the Sabbath, and the Pharisee's wanted to stone Him...
The Roman Catholic church is filled to the brim with ancient, satanic Babylonian practice and doctrine. The veneration of the Pope as Christ himself, and the descending priesthood,and the worship of the Mediatrix Mary, as the Queen of Heaven, are the two most glaring and wicked heresies.
Today, as we speak, there are martyrs of Christ's true church by Roman Catholics, in Mexico and South America, as there were 10s of thousands and thousands during the reformation...[read the Book of Martyrs]. Have they changed? Really no, except in the power to execute their convictions to slaughter the true church brought on through political upheaval..[ by the Lord, I might add.]
Can a person be saved while within the Catholic cult? Obviously, multitudes have and left her.There are many, many books written by the family of God previously chained by her wicked doctrine. They were born again by His Holy Spirit, and "CAME OUT OF HER."
To say that we should not warn others that this is an evil religion, and will kill you, is foolish. We should also, as Luther and others did, [ the reformation fathers ], at the risk of certain death.[ and many were burnt alive, tortured and died..].
We should as we would do to any pagan religious nation, preach the true gospel that produces a holy people, born again and covered by the blood....to the Catholics. We should love them, and be merciful, and bring the Jesus that saves to them....
At the same time, we should not condone or coddle the wicked system that captured them..[as Islam, or Hinduism].They are a lost people...and God desires that they would know Him, and the true Savior.
4. “Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5. for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes!"
Revelation 18.
S
sscr01
The Pope will be The Antichrist: so says, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Wyclif, William Tyndale, King James,John Knox, Philipp Melanchthon, and Huldreich Zwingli.
S
sscr01
The Pope will be The Antichrist: so says Martin Luther, John Calvin,John Wesley, John Wyclif, William Tyndale,King James,John Knox, Philipp Melanchton, and Huldreich Zwingli.
S
sscr01
The Pope will be The Antichrist: so says, Martin Luther, John Calvin,John Wesley, John Wyclif, William Tyndale,King James,John Knox, Philipp Melancthon, and Huldreich Zwingli.
S
sscr01
The Pope will be The Antichrist: so says, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Wyclif,King James,John Knox, Philipp Melancthon, and Huldreich Zwingli.
S
sscr01
The Pope will be The Antichrist: so says, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Wyclif, King James, William Tyndale, John Knox, Philipp Melancthon, and Huldreich Zwingli.
S
sermonindex
Multiple posts like this [ I don't know if it is accidental or not...] is frowned upon here by the moderators...for obvious reasons. It's called, "Spamming the boards.."
Please delete all but one of your duplicates.
R
RainMan
Narrow is the way and there be few that find it
There are many ways that seem right to a man, but there is and end to it. My prayer is God uses those on the straight and narrow to reach out to those on the broad path to destruction which includes cults, isms(including intellectualism) and various devices of the enemy. The enemy has different strategy for different type of people. Arguably Catholicism is one such evil? But is the deception that we should pray to Mary and other dead people any worse of than the mass produced self-seeking garbage called American Christianity? Is the pope intrinsically any more evil than any of today's pop princesses that advocate fornication and materialism and outright rebellion against God? Are we focusing on the pope whilst our children have Lindsey lohan on thier mp3 plaeyrs?
S
sermonindex
I just want to reming everyone that the title of the thread is "Why do Protestants Reject the Pope?"
Many reject the false Catholic Doctrine, yet, (and please hear this) they do not reject Catholics. They also reject the Pope because he boasts about taking Jesus Christ's place on earth. In fact, this is part of Catholic catechism teachings to the young.
The ad hominem is always thrown out by religious Catholics that "you are anti-Catholic". That is quite a sweeping label, yet not true.
What is true is that we are anti-Catholic doctrine, which is just the same as being anti-Mormon doctrine, anti-Jehovah Witness doctrine, etc.
KingJimmy has a post about whether Doctrine Matters.
It matters to the Catholic Church and no one would take that away from them. They love their doctrine and propagate it and that is their right to do so. They also have their apologetic books and apologists such as Scott Hahn, and Patrick Madrid and it is also their right to be able to expose what they think are people, beliefs and doctrines that are in error regarding their Catholic church.
So, before Protestants are demonized for being Anti-Catholic, let's put it in perspective once more. No one is anti-people. Just as the Catholic religious will defend their beliefs and doctrine so will other faiths and all have the right to do this.
Catholics would never say they are anti-Protestant, meaning against people. Yet, they call us anti-Catholic and they don't mean doctrine.
God gives you the right to believe what you think is the truth. He does not give us the right to hate people. But He does give us the right to hate false doctrine. Jesus twice said in Revelation, that "I hate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans". We are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.
Their ad hominems are meant to make you feel bad as a person. They want you to remember that you are part of the human family, and thus to cause you to compromise and bend towards them. You know, "we all believe in Jesus", and "You are not loving", or "How can we ever come together in unity, if YOU continue to divide?" These types of arguments.
Let me say in conclusion and this goes for any belief system that does not square with whatever your beliefs are. Uniformity is not unity. Conformity is not unity. But this is what Ecumenicalism is all about. The Emerging Church movement is just another tentacle of Ecumenialism. What these both have in common is that they want you to adhere to "Unity at all Costs" even (and especially) the cost of doctrine.
Ecumenicalism is Uniformity, not true Unity. You cannot unify around falsehoods and lies. If you do, you have lost your way by giving up your convictions.
Then what has truth become? Do you know that if you love and adhere to God's truth as stated in His Word, you will be in the minority. You will be hated, you will be vilified, you will be marginalized. You will be made to feel bad and be made to feel like you are the one that is keeping the "church" from unity. Do you understand that? You can be filled with God's love for all people, yet be made to feel like you do not have "true" love, because you are not "agreeing" with doctrine that you just cannot accept. I am talking about doctrine that strikes at your core beliefs about Jesus Christ and who He is. Not about non-essentials like what days are special to you or what foods you choose not to eat.
Do not let man or devil heap condemnation on you. You will be misunderstood, lied about and slandered. Don't you know that all this was done to Jesus, who did not compromise God's Word and refused the leaven of His day. He was not a man pleaser and was not trying to get in good with others and be uniform. And who will step up and say that He did not love people.
You can love people and not accept their lies about your Lord.
S
sermonindex
I am pro-Jesus.
I am pro-Bible.
...and that puts me at odds with anything else.
S
sermonindex
Now, why can't I say things so concisely?
;-)
R
roadsign
QUOTE: No one is anti-people.
This is no doubt the intent, Pilgrim. Yet, I can’t help remembering Zwingli who executed someone for insisting on believer’s baptism by immersion! Executing heretics was common behaviour back then. Today Christians use words just as effectively to damage people – even when they believe they are defending truth. When they get the backlash, they may very well assume that they are persecuted for Christ’s sake – when they are actually be persecuted for their un-Christlikeness.
PILGRIM’S QUOTE: Jesus twice said in Revelation, that "I hate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans".
This is a great point, and it leads to many other points - for example, the context. These Ephesian Christians are definitely on Jesus’ side when it comes to the Nicolaitans. Yet they are being judged for having forsaken their first love. (Rev. 2:4) In other words they are being told: You folks are all fantastic at diagnosing the heretics, but you are not good at diagnosing your own hearts. You have strayed away from Christ - even while you are zealously persevering for his name’s sake.
Perhaps I am tossing in a monkey-wrench here, and my apologies! I am not attempting to downplay the falseness of false teachings or the need to address them. It’s just that we must think about where and how we draw the lines between black and white.
Just a wee example, to explain my concern:
I have a friend who, in our conversations, would often denounce her Catholic past. It was easy to agree with her. We found no difficulty condemning historical papacy. Our discussions were tempting my friend (and me) to feel superior. They also did more to help her feel justified in leaving the church than to recognize her need for a Savior. We needed to change our focus from the badness of the badguys (who were not even a threat to either of us) to the truth about our inner selves.
That’s where I’m coming from. Perhaps it seems that I am compromising the cross because I resist our tendency to focus on the problem of the heretics. But, really, I am calling us, myself included, towards the cross, where alone we are purified and transformed into lights of the gospel.
“For our struggle is not against the flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, and against powers of this dark world.” Eph. 6: 12
Diane
S
sermonindex
i'm wondering if anyone actually LISTENED to Ian Paisley's sermon, "Why True Protestants Reject the Pope"?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=6846
that was my original intent.
humbly, neil
S
sermonindex
It's a very good observation that you made Diane, [ Roadsign ]. We can elevate ourselves as righteous as we step upon the obvious unrighteous; [Catholics and their doctrines].
The battle is to speak the truth in love and stand in Christ, as the battle is presented to us. Jesus desired that His people, the Jewish Pharisee's, would repent, and lay down their covetous heresies that elevated them.
He said in Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.!".......................
By saying so, does this mean that He didn't love them? Of course not...He did. Yet, they were murdering people who followed them, that surely thought that this was the way to God; as are the masses in Roman Catholicism.
...............................
"But, really, I am calling us, myself included, towards the cross, where alone we are purified and transformed into lights of the gospel."...Diane... Amen..
.....................................
And While we are doing so, let us reach out in love to those who are perishing, not as self righteous, but desiring them to know the One true God, not the counterfeit.
S
sermonindex
Now, why can't I say things so concisely?
Years of practice... (if you only knew)
:-)
S
sermonindex
Neil, Sorry, I did not listen to Ian and am listening to it now. I love Ian Paisley and his courageous stand for the Lord through the years. The political world is married to the religious world and it was no more evident than when they worked together long ago to ban him from the USA.
I think recently (2009) he has been allowed back in.
R
roadsign
NEIL SAID: i'm wondering if anyone actually LISTENED to Ian Paisley's sermon, "Why True Protestants Reject the Pope"?
Yes, I did, Neil. I also did a brief search on Rev. Ian Paisley. Until recently, he was a political leader in Protestant Northern Ireland and a strong opponent of Catholicism, (as is abundantly evident in this sermon). He is also a Free Presbyterian minister and revivalist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley
Paisley’s life has been a merging of politics and faith.
There is also an article about him here:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/paisleys-path-and-how-it-cost-him-close-friends-13391175.html
S
sermonindex
Well, yes, I think when you talk about Catholic doctrine all kinds of monkey wrenches get thrown in. It is very easy to go off on several different tangents.
I would agree with what BrotherTom recently said.
"The battle is to speak the truth in love and stand in Christ, as the battle is presented to us. Jesus desired that His people, the Jewish Pharisee's, would repent, and lay down their covetous heresies that elevated them."
This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.