Paul Washer Walks off of Stage at TMC

Maybe I'm not getting it, but why did he walk off stage?

Yeah, I'm scratching my head a bit as well.

Apathy for the cross is why he walked out.

"As unconventional as Paul Washer was walking off of stage today, it brought sadness to my own heart I as well as most of the people there shared the shame of our apathy for the cross."

did you guys read the letter?! or listen to the message?

yes, thank you travis

Well, maybe the Spirit of the Lord told him to stop preaching and just leave. Such might preach louder than him continuing on in the pulpit.

Just listened to the message, it is a rebuke to me because of the coldness of my own heart at times. This makes me think of the song I love Thy Kingdom Lord,,,

I love Thy church, O God.
Her walls before Thee stand,
Dear as the apple of Thine eye,
And written on Thy hand.

If e’er to bless Thy sons
My voice or hands deny,
These hands let useful skills forsake,
This voice in silence die.

Should I with scoffers join
Her altars to abuse?
No! Better far my tongue were dumb,
My hand its skill should lose.

For her my tears shall fall
For her my prayers ascend,
To her my cares and toils be given
Till toils and cares shall end.

True ministers of God are at times going to be at a loss for words and consumned with anguish over the fallen sate of this world. Over the lack of love and affection toward God. Oh that more men would be broken and contrite in heart toward God and weep for His Church!!

And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14

Praise God!

Alive to God,
If it's still not working, it's also available here.
http://www.masters.edu/pulpit/files/2010/Fall-'10/20101117-PaulWasher-mp3

hi,i never have spent a more profitable 45 minutes ...thank you jimp

Where is the YouTube video link?
Doug

Some wondered why Paul left the stage. Here is what I gained from the above article.

Paul had preached about Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac and concluded with "and the Father slaughtered Him there". He looked around and the audience did not comprehend what he was telling them. He saw blank looks, then as he walked out people started to clap...

I understand that Paul sensed that these people were not getting it. Their minds were closed to the awesome message he was sharing. Paul felt deeply about this message but the audience were apathetic to it. This must have effected him so deeply that he could not stand it, hence his walking out on them.

This is how I understand the writer of this email. Am I wrong?

ginnyrose

I have now listened to this sermon. Is this the actual recording of the sermon where Paul walked off the stage?

I don't blame Paul from walking out. Good for Paul for doing what he does best which is follow Christ even if it means walking out from speaking to a group of apathetic listeners. Good for him.

Wait a sec, isn't Master's College the one run by John Macarthur?

Yes, the Master's College is run by John MacArthur, which actually surprises me that he walked off the stage there, seeing how much Bro. Paul respects John MacArthur. I listened to the sermon last night, and it really broke me. I can fully understand why he walked away if the speculated reason is indeed why he did. If they did not get what he was saying, and it caused him such sadness (you could hear him beginning to weep at the end of the recording) then I can fully understand. I would like to know why he did such a thing though, and if what we are guessing truly is the reason. HomeSkoolDad has a point, we must check our source on this.

"and the Father slaughtered Him there"

Knowing what God has done in sending HIS only son to suffer and die for me, just the realization of the weight of these words and knowing it was because HE loved me even though I could never, ever, deserve that love makes me wonder shouldn't Christ Jesus be the focus, not Paul? Let God reveal what HE has for those that were in attendance be revealed to each in HIS time...for me the question is "Lord what do YOU have for me to see from this teaching? What is YOUR heart for me in these words, open my eyes to see!"

What is God showing you? What is HE opening your eyes to about your own walk, relationship with the HIM?

I pray for all of us that have heard this teaching, then and now that we will not allow worldly speculations or distractions to take the focus from Jesus...HE alone is deserving of our attention!

rdg

The measure of His sacrifice for you will be the measure of your willing surrender to Him in all things.

Andrew Murray

Greetings

In thinking about what God is showing me through this teaching I think its not to ever get to a place where I become complacent in my walk with HIM. Never to take for granted the incredible sacrifice that was made for me. God in HIS mercy and love gave HIS only son so that I might live!
I'm nothing and yet HE loved me how can I not respond to HIM.

God Bless
mj

[by MaryJane on 2010/11/22 8:30:08

Greetings

In thinking about what God is showing me through this teaching I think its not to ever get to a place where I become complacent in my walk with HIM. Never to take for granted the incredible sacrifice that was made for me. God in HIS mercy and love gave HIS only son so that I might live!]

MaryJane,
If we keep seeking Him in prayer and bible study, we will never be complacent. Instead He will share His burden with us and it will be a painful one.

shouldn't Christ Jesus be the focus, not Paul?

Good word Rainydaygirl. It is all about Jesus!

And whatever Paul's reason was, I sure don't know, is between him and God. We are to obey God and leave the results to Him. If God told him to preach there and he did fast and pray before hand then the results are in God's hands. If God told him to leave - then the results are in God's hands. And if he was not obeying God then God will deal with Paul.

But we do pray for all the seeds that were planted and watered that day. That the Lord would give the increase. We pray that all seeds fall on good soil and be watered. Yes, Lord because You are worthy. Glorify Yourself in this situation Lord. And what the enemy planned for evil we all pray You will turn it to Your good. In Jesus Precious Name.

I haven't listened to the message yet, but his latest twitter update says he's wiped out and in the middle of a four day rest.

I cannot hear the sermon but as I read the OP ...... the speaker was talking about Isaac and Abraham and that the father just slaughtered him there ........ maybe the guy got ticked off because Abraham did not slaughter his son and nobody caught an intentional mistake

Possibly?

Doug

by Lesserlight on 2010/11/22 9:39:21

I cannot hear the sermon but as I read the OP ...... the speaker was talking about Isaac and Abraham and that the father just slaughtered him there ........ maybe the guy got ticked off because Abraham did not slaughter his son and nobody caught an intentional mistake

Possibly?

Doug

that was my first thought as well.

Paul Washer says, "So the story about Abraham comes to an end. The son is saved. And everyone sighs a bit of relief. And the curtains are drawn to a close. And you think "whoa" what a beautiful ending to that story. The only problem is it wasn't the ending to that story. It was merely the intermission. Generation after generation passes and the curtain in the theater opens up once more and there it is -- a cross-- a dark, twisted, ugly cross. And there's just enough light to see and there is a figure hanging there. It is the son of God bearing your sin. And then God lays his hand upon the brow of his son, his only son, whom he loves. And he draws back the knife of divine justice and he slaughters him there -- slaughters him there. [With Tears] Slaughters him there."

I don't know why he walked off the stage, but it seems that it was the end of the sermon. Nevertheless, it was a moving word. It was very poignant. It was the true gospel. A message of the centrality of Christ. Amen, Paul Washer, Amen!

More and more, I realize that America has more idols than India, and more demons than Africa, more secularism than France. For weeks now I have been disillusioned by church and "christian" people. I just don't know any more. I love Jesus with all my heart and I let him be all he wants to be in me. I just don't see that among the Christians here where I live. Most of them are apathetic. All they talk about is money and how much they don't have, but do need. All they talk about is how God can bless them and make them happy in their daily lives. I told a friend this passed Sunday that we (Christians) virtually do the same thing every Sunday. There is no fire, no faith, no fear of God. Nevertheless, most Christians I know (I know many) want to be friends with the world and friends with God. This is why I love a K.P. Yohannan, and a Paul Washer. They set the example for me. Would there were more such as them.

Brother Paul did not make an error.

God the Father slaughtered his only begotten Son,Jesus, on the cross. This is what he preached. The Gospel.

Most of them are apathetic. All they talk about is money and how much they don't have, but do need. All they talk about is how God can bless them and make them happy in their daily lives. I told a friend this passed Sunday that we (Christians) virtually do the same thing every Sunday. There is no fire, no faith, no fear of God. Nevertheless, most Christians I know (I know many) want to be friends with the world and friends with God. This is why I love a K.P. Yohannan, and a Paul Washer. They set the example for me. Would there were more such as them.

I remember listening to a paul washer sermon a while back. He was talking about how God saved him. Id like to consider myself as a "Mans Man" lol but it took weeks for me to be able to listen to the message without crying.

Real preaching brings people to repentance. But nowadays people just want to "encourage" the brethren. I see nothing wrong encouraging the countless xtians in the third world that suffer for christ. But when western xtianity has got to a state where pastors would rather motivate/encourage people to do well in life(psoukay) than to repent and get eternal life it grieves me.

I really dont even want to partake in street evangelism with my church as it feels humanistic. It seems like im the only one that realises God isnt in this. Its just about getting people to join our sunday social club. Repentance has become an optional extra. I want to say something in my church about this but feel that i will be misunderstood and victimized.

Brother Paul did not make an error.

God the Father slaughtered his only begotten Son,Jesus, on the cross. This is what he preached. The Gospel.

if that is a response to my suggestion?

I think it is safe to say that Christians all know that Jesus fulfilled the blood sacrifices commanded by God the Father that is the same spirit that is in Jesus Christ the Son........yes God did slaughter His own Son as a acceptable sacrifice for the sins of man

It is also equally well known that Abraham did not slaughter his son Isaac but believing in the resurrection would have, because Abraham knew that through Isaac's seed the promise would come.

Maybe the video reveals something the OP does not but according to the OP Paul was speaking of Isaac and Abraham and not the crucifixion of Jesus when he made the statement about the father slaughtering the son.

If I felt that a class was not paying attention to me I would do something just like that myself to see if there was anyone present that would not deserve a failing grade.

Considering some of the doctrines coming from some of the pulpits these days people need to wake up and pay attention to what is being said.

I do not know this man from Adam but if it is how the OP says the sermon went, then this person just might have done these people a favor by showing them that they need to WAKE UP and pay attention to what you are listening to these days.

Blessings

Doug

And then God lays his hand upon the brow of his son, his only son, whom he loves. And he draws back the knife of divine justice and he slaughters him there -- slaughters him there. [With Tears] Slaughters him there.

Jesus hanging on the cross forsaken of God, He who never knew sin became sin for us. How horrible must have been these moments of total darkness and utter abandonment from God. And whats sad is that when people hear the story of the cross often they are not moved but remain cold, apathetic, indifferent. Even the most orthodox colleges are not a garantee that people will be spiritually sentitive to Christ and his sufferings. People have lost the vision of the holiness of God and the cross.

I know I have personally been insensitive to the cross, but just recently the Lord blessed me by helping me write a poem that as I read I have to hold back tears because it helps me think of Christ's innocence while remember my wickedness, to think of His Mercy and my great need of mercy. It has blessed me in the area of remembrance of what Christ did for me personally when God poured out His wrath on the Perfect Lamb.

As you read passages like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22, and other portions of prophesy, and you see all that He suffered there at the hands of wicked men to redeem them, and you consider that you were one of the ones that handled him so cruelly by your own constant sinning, that YOU had your hand on the hammer that drove in those nails--you should be humbled. I know I have. Indeed, God has broken me with that.

Paul Washer has been given a great gift from God for expounding the Gospel with passion and fervor, not leaving it in the hands of foolish religionists that transform the glorious doctrine of Atonement into a fifteen-minute "Bible story". Let us remember the cross, and what we did to put Him there.

"Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world!" Hallelujah.

If you have not listened to this yet...please do. How callous I have been to the message of the cross.

Let us pray for Paul:

May the God of hope fill Paul W. with all joy and peace as Paul trusts in him, so that Paul W. may overflow with HOPE by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Diane

Hello AtG

Thank you for your reply

Not knowing the person and just going by the OP I cannot see where the speaker went from Abraham and Isaac to the Cross although that certainly seems to be the consensus here

I just don't understand why someone would stop at that point...... it is not as if the Son had not written His own epitaph from before the foundations of the earth were formed.

What really stops me and make me shake my head is the amount of persons who call upon His Name for forgiveness for their sins but then continue in sin........ absolutely amazing

Jesus did not die just so we could have a clean slate but so that after our Pentecost experience when we sin again through the Blood and His forgiveness of our sin(s) God would not force to turn away from us.

Therefore our sanctification could continue so that the point is reached where we are able to overcome sin and sin no more........ otherwise Christ would have died in vain because all do sin again even after being baptized in the Holy Spirit

Then there are those who look at Jesus hanging on the Cross and ask for forgiveness but never forgive those who sin against them

No wonder God said that we have robbed Him of His due....... I agree

Blessings

Doug

Brothers and sisters, I know this thread was started with the statement of Paul walking off the stage, which certainly invites speculation. However, I honestly think we would do our brother a much greater honor by searching our own hearts in response to what was said.

God looks on the inside, he discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart. That is his job alone. Ours is to respond to the division the sword generates. Analyzing the motives of Paul or the responsiveness of the crowd is virtually futile. You nor anyone else is responsible for other peoples motives. We are only accountable for our own. Each man must give an account to God...

I'm not convinced he walked off because of the people's reaction. It is futile to ever minister and look for some sort of outward response. We don't know what people are truly thinking and how a message may be used of God in their lives in the minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years to follow.

Some people are simply not in a place to hear what is being communicated (by revelation). They can't 'see' what is being said. God has to bring understanding to the heart. Think of the Masterful sermon Steven preached and yet Saul looked on as if it didn't even phase him. You would have thought those men would have been on the floor weeping. They were not.

Apathy is a response also just as weeping or anger. We must avoid the trap of thinking weeping is more effective than no reaction. Why? Because I have known of young men to weep all night, testify about it and backslide a few weeks later. We must be blind to outward responses. We may look at a person sitting through what we think is a message carrying all before it like Stonewall Jackson in the heat of battle- and get somewhat angry or discouraged about it. You have no idea how that message may be taken hold of by God to effect change in the hours and days and weeks ahead.

So we have to be careful in how we react to peoples reactions while preaching. Let God worry about peoples' apathy or disrespect. That's not our job. It is the road to discouragement. Share what God lays on your heart and leave the rest in His hands.

Just a thought, but, does it really matter why Paul Washer walked off stage anywhere? I mean, he's one of millions of ministers in this world.

Watching the video it looks to me like he just ended the sermon. I saw Richard Owens Roberts do that once, but it was a little more deliberate. In this case I think he was just finished. There was nothing more to say.

David Wilkerson once spoke at a conference in which he put away his sermon, approached the podium and admitted that he had no message for the audience other than that we should weep over the fact that we know the Lord so little.

I think that the Church might be much better off if 100,000 pastors did the same thing this week.

:-\\

[I don't think he had finished what was on his heart, but exhaustion overcame him.]

It could very well be that he did not finish the sermon, BUT it will very unlikely be because of exhaustion. I've never come across any godly person that in the middle of preaching to a group of people will suddenly walk off stage without an explanation because they are exhausted. At the least they will give some reason. Most likely, God will sustain the godly man to be able to continue the message. There is NEVER any glory for God when a man walks away halfway through preaching because of his exhaustion.

It can be any reasons for his walking away, one of them that he was going to break into tears and he didn't want people to focus on his tears. He wanted people to focus on God and the message he was giving. He may have pushed right up to the part about Abraham's sacrifice before he could not contain his tears any longer. It would be a good place to 'end' if he is unable to continue.

I wouldn't be surprised that God had a hand to play in this and He would use this for His glory. The buzz that surrounds this may be what caused some people to tune in to listen to this sermon or listen to it again for God to change the person.

Perhaps it is time to regroup - go back to the beginning, and get a grip on the original poster's intent. How was Denise trying to steer our thoughts? She said:

As the auditorium emptied, I can see that there were a few huddles of students crying and some were just sitting with their heads down in prayer weeping. As unconventional as Paul Washer was walking off of stage today, it brought sadness to my own heart I as well as most of the people there shared the shame of our apathy for the cross.

Below is the link of the two sermons. I hope you'll find the time to listen to these. If you do, give me your opinion. To be honest, I'm still in a bit of shock.

God bless,

Denise
--------------------------
quoted by Diane

Thank you for quoting the original letter. That's I felt when listening to this message.

Alive-to-God,

No, there's no miscommunication.

Leanne Payne's testimony does not lend credence to your view. She did not walk off stage halfway without explanation. Examples of other godly people will lend weight to my viewpoint. Also, someone already mentioned that Washer was starting to cry when he left the stage.

I would have explained further but I feel that I will be unsuccessful in getting my point across to you no matter how much I write and this will likely result in more 'to and fro' posts between us which is not a wise use of both our time. People see things differently many times and sometimes its best to just agree to disagree. Furthermore, we are ultimately speculating and none of us currently know for sure the real reason.

Thanks for the Carter Conlon's message but I'm not
a fan of his, so will not be seeing it. His message just don't jive with me--nothing against him. Guess we all have our pool of pastors that we prefer listening to.

I am a Masters College student who was present for both of Paul Washer's sermons in chapel last week. Allow me to set some of the facts straight as many posters here weren't present.

There was quite a buzz around campus after Washer spoke. Obviously his ending was much different than all others, so it was highly discussed. I haven't heard any other opinion besides the fact that he was simply done with his sermon. Paul Washer is a emotional speaker, not a pastor. He uses dramatic language and pauses to affect people, and cause tears. This is what he does. He was done speaking when he walked off stage. The way he spoke came across that he was done; he didn't leave anything unsaid per se. One point no one knows about is that he finished at 10:26. Our chapel goes until 10:25. As one poster suggested, he had no more time at his disposal. He didn't finish early or leave without saying what he wanted to. It was a finished message. I don't understand why he would walk out with purpose of not wanting to talk to anyone. During his stay here, he spent a lot of time hanging out with the students, talking and answering questions. He made himself accessible, this is a doubtful cause.

Let me address the fact that he was disappointed with our reaction. Here at Masters we have 3 chapels a week, for 18 weeks. We are allowed 6 misses per semester, so often attendance is mandatory. This is not a Sunday morning church service for us. Being "forced" to be there, in addition to having a lot of schoolwork on our plate, makes the chapel audience at TMC a little different than a church. Hearts aren't always prepared. Sure this is our fault here, but as one poster made the comment, preachers shouldn't look to the outward audience's reaction as to how they are doing. TMC is a conservative Christian college. There isn't a lot of hand-raising or public outcries during singing or sermons. If Washer was expecting that, he wasn't going to get it no matter what he said.

Obviously it was awkward when he walked off. It never happens. In addition, no one came on stage afterwards to dismiss us, so it was more that no one knew what to do. I, nor one I've talked to, heard laughing from anyone. That goes against what anyone here would do. Some walked out as there is a class that starts 10 minutes after chapel ends... they need to get there and can't afford to sit there wondering what's going when a test is starting, etc... While it is usually customary for us to clap for the speaker if appropriate, I don't think it was entirely appropriate for applause to be started in this case. He was being dramatic, applause would have ruined it.

In my humble opinion, Paul Washer preached for his allotted time, and being the dramatic speaker he is, used this emotional act as part of his sermon to affect the audience of how serious the Gospel is.

I'm open for any questions or things I didn't cover/answer.

(It seems that only one person was there, although many have listened to the audio. It seems the link is unreliable, so here is the official link from our website. http://www.masters.edu/pulpit/series/The-Depth-of-the-Gospel-by-Paul-Washer-2010)

Thank you for clearing all of that up. I have been following this thread the past several days and haven't been able to discern why he walked away. That makes perfect sense though. I have never heard Paul Washer in person, (or at all before this past summer) But have watched him preach in many of the sermon videos that are on the internet. The different mannerisms that you mentioned I have noticed as well. While this is a bold move, given his character, it seems like an appropriate one.

Hi dharasick, first of all welcome to the forum. Thanks for providing more insight and a better link. I have not watched this sermon yet.

I follow Paul Washer a fair bit.

You are right in saying that Paul Washer is a dramatic/emotional speaker etc. Also, he has mentioned several times in his sermons that he and his people are there after sermons (not sure whether for all sermons) to answer questions etc. So no surprise there on him spending time with the students (except for the 1 time here).

However, I think the part where you may have likely got it wrong is that if maybe Washer is looking for the outward audience's reaction. He is not one to strike me as being affected by just seeing the outward reaction of the audience in this particular case and being thus affected that he will walk off the stage. I think its more to do with the message (no more time could also be part of it). Of course, I'm just guessing here based on what I've seen of him in the past.

He has ever mentioned before that when he gives a sermon, its not like he is here and the audience is there. Its more of when he gives the sermon, he also is one of the audience and the sermon is for him also. Who knows what God puts in his heart, the burden or pain etc.

I do feel that God's hand is in this and maybe he will now be known for more than 1 sermon. He has ever 'joked/mentioned' that he is famous for only 1 sermon and I think he mentioned this when comparing himself with John MacArthur who he said gave many good sermons. (so its quite funny to me that this happened in MacArthur's Masters College...God does have a sense of humor) :)

dharasick wrote

Let me address the fact that he was disappointed with our reaction. Here at Masters we have 3 chapels a week, for 18 weeks. We are allowed 6 misses per semester, so often attendance is mandatory. This is not a Sunday morning church service for us. Being "forced" to be there, in addition to having a lot of schoolwork on our plate, makes the chapel audience at TMC a little different than a church. Hearts aren't always prepared. Sure this is our fault here, but as one poster made the comment, preachers shouldn't look to the outward audience's reaction as to how they are doing. TMC is a conservative Christian college. There isn't a lot of hand-raising or public outcries during singing or sermons. If Washer was expecting that, he wasn't going to get it no matter what he said.

_______

Wow not really sure what to say in response to this entire paragraph that you wrote... but If I may ask you what did you walk away from his teaching seeing? How did God use this teaching in your walk with HIM?

rdg

learn wrote:

However, I think the part where you may have likely got it wrong is that if maybe Washer is looking for the outward audience's reaction. He is not one to strike me as being affected by just seeing the outward reaction of the audience in this particular case and being thus affected that he will walk off the stage. I think its more to do with the message (no more time could also be part of it). Of course, I'm just guessing here based on what I've seen of him in the past.

rainydaygirl wrote

Wow not really sure what to say in response to this entire paragraph that you wrote... but If I may ask you what did you walk away from his teaching seeing? How did God use this teaching in your walk with HIM?

Great question, sorry if there is misunderstanding. I listen to 6 sermons a week in addition to Bible classes, go to a wing small group, and a college bible study. I have a lot of truth coming at me. It's absolutely impossible to take every word I hear and apply it to my life. I focus on my church and what I learn there for the main teaching in my life. The other things such as chapel and bible classes I use in my life as guides to keep me aligned with Christ. That's where I come from in posting this. It's a challenge to not be apathetic. But keep in that our chapel is not the church.

During the sermon I also struggled with the fact that Washer had his Bible open for about 45 seconds. Our chapel is in our gymnasium, and I had a spot in the bleachers where I could see onto the pulpit. His Bible came open once near the end to read a OT passage, then it was shut again. I have been going to Grace Community Church my entire life. I'm used to preachers using their Bible's and preaching directly from them. Paul Washer doesn't have that style. While what he is saying is absolute truth, it's hard to view it as more than motivational speech on the Christianity.

With all that in mind, hopefully you understand more of where I'm coming from. What I got out of it was a further alignment with the Gospel. It's hard to not remember the bigger picture though, how different Washer's style is and how odd it was for him to just walk off. And I know this is my fault, and something I'm working on. God is always God, and the Gospel is always the Gospel.

bible4life wrote

I found the video for the sermon, http://www.masters.edu/life/chapel-highlights/?bcpid=68026363001&bclid=67832856001&bctid=680473445001

Awesome, thanks. Students with logins can see all the videos, but I didn't know they made some public. Unfortunately, they did not include him walking off in the video.

But keep in that our chapel is not the church.

Honestly disagree to your idea of church brother. Wherever two or three genuine believers gather in Jesus name there is the body of Christ present.

As for Paul Washer, he is not the conventional orthodox preacher we are acustom to hear, who is very careful in dividing the word of God but lacking the fire of the Holy Spirit in his sermons. Emotionalism can be pretty bad and lead to fanaticism and all kinds of deceptions but on the other side, the fruit of the Spirit love or joy is often expressed thru emotion.

George Whitefield was a dramatic preacher and Jonathan Edwards was monotonous in his preaching but they both were on the same page as far as religious affections and their legitimate place in the christian experience.

Im bringing this subject of emotion for the simple fact that you spoke of Washer as an motivational speaker rather than a preacher and this will make him appear more like an honest enthusiast rather than a messanger of the word of God. Methodists were called enthusiasts because they were zealous for God and the salvation of souls. During the first great awakening in america Jonathan Edwards wrote a treatise on Religious Affections to defend the revival as a genuine work of God agaist the accusations to the contrary. Jonathan Edwards and his "followers" came to be known as the New Light Calvinist ministers, as opposed to the traditional Old Light Calvinist. Later on some of the old light calvinists turned unitarian and history has justified that new light calvinists were the true defenders of the Gosple.

Its a fact that whenever genuine revival is prayed down there is a great emotion exhibited among people to different degrees. Old puritans used to pray for the "gifts of tears", for those who were unconverted. You donot need tears to be saved that will be heretical but who can deny the anguish, conviction of sin, the restlessness that sinners feel when God has manifested his presence in a special way?

I got out of the subject, but my point is that the bible and history of revivals prove that "religious affections" as Edwards called them can be sound and biblical. Edwards made religious affection intellectually and theologically acceptable.

The most saintly men of God have shown a great deal of holy emotion in their devotions. David Brainerd diary is filled with examples of the so called "religious afections".

All that said, it does not mean that we are going to reverse the order and put emotion first place and the word of God in the second place, that is extremly dangerous as it leads to all kinds of fanaticisms and deceptions by evil spirits. The word of God is the light, the truth, the standard of our faith, without it we will be in darkness. We are called to walk by faith and not by feelings.

One more thing to say, i have read a story about John Knox, that once he canceled his sermon when He went up to the pulpit to preach because he did not receive any word from God. Strange isnt it, he could have very well open a bible read a text and preach but he chose not. Today he most probably will be branded as an enthusianst, fanatic, or someone lead by impressions. I think even Spurgeon was once in a similiar situation when people were expecting him to preach but he did not.

P.S. Edited

Ok, dharasick. Its good that you are saying Washer would not look for a reaction to his sermons and that was not the reason for his walking off stage.

He's not always that way, opening his Bible for only a few minutes. His sermons like "The Gift Nobody Wants" and "Heart of the Gospel" are fine examples of that. "Ten Indictments to the Church in Amerca" is another example. And he wasn't very "motivational" in the popular sense of the world in those either. His book "One True God" is loaded with Scripture by the way, if anyone's interested. That must have just been an off day.

He's not always that way, opening his Bible for only a few minutes

I think we are not making distinction beween teacher preachers and herald preachers.

"Teacher preachers have a defining belief that hearers should understand Scripture. Such preachers stay close to the text and explain its meaning deductively. Typically doctrinal and instructional, this preaching examines verses in logical order. Some examples of teacher preachers are John Stott,.... John MacArthur."

"Herald preachers have a defining emphasis on God's empowering of both Scripture and the preaching event itself. Though such preaching shares deductive and propositional characteristics in common with teaching, it sounds very different. Herald preachers are often dramatic in style."

These are 2 definitions i found online about different styles of preaching. I hope that helps to understand the different ministries of men of God in the body of Christ. The greatest evangelists of the 19th centery were herald preachers and they used also extemporenous preaching.

Both methods are valid and important for the bulding up of the body of Christ.

I watched the Video of Paul Washer preaching. Wow! Honestly, I was NOT left thinking about Paul, but about God and the costly sacrifice of his Son.

Perhaps the title of this thread could be changed to one that directs our eyes to what God did rather than what Paul did(which was hardly anything worth mentioning, never mind drawing our attention to).

The sermon stirred me deeply, as I ponder on God's love for me. It is one of the most beautiful sermons I have ever heard in my life.

I hope you all get a chance to watch it!

Diane

Elected had a good point there. Leonard Ravenhill was definitely a "herald" preacher who cried out against the sins of his day while someone like D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones was certainly expository. Some people are both, it just depends on what they are preaching against.

May I suggest this thought, for I have known some of The Master's College people.

...........................................................
Phl 3:8\tYet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Phl 3:9\tand be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,
...........................................................

"not having my own righteousness, which is from the law"

used this emotional act as part of his sermon to affect the audience of how serious the Gospel is.

Do you consider his emotion as a mere act, used to emphasize his points?

ginnyrose

The sermon stirred me deeply, as I ponder on God's love for me. It is one of the most beautiful sermons I have ever heard in my life.

Emotions are not bad. The problem is were people connect with emotions and not the word of God. False teachers employ this strategy to deceive people by pulling at their heart strings i.e. marriage, finances, health and fulfillment etc a heart that is not content will be easily led astray by covetousness ("by a mans own lust is he enticed").

I do not agree with everything washer teaches as sometimes his "emotions" make him seem less exegetical than he should be. But i like most of his stuff regardless (except where i feel like he is trying to ram Calvinist views down my throat)

What i would say is washer has a passion for God and his people and this leads to what people perceive to be emotionalism.

My wife burst into tears yesterday after seeing people in the news that died in a stampede. When i saw the news earlier i didnt have the same emotions. It doesnt mean that i love less, i just believe people display passion or zeal in different manners.

I admit, in my earlier post I suggested that we restore the focus onto what Paul would have wished: God (not Paul). Yet it occurred to me that the person IS important. God shines through broken clay jars – where the fruit of the Spirit is evident: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

If we learn to be accurate fruit inspectors, then I think we can answer Ginnyrose’s question:

QUESTION: Do you consider his emotion as a mere act, used to emphasize his points?

After listening to his sermon, I would conclude that his emotions were not manipulative, nor did they arise from a false “self”. His emotions correspond to what is genuine. They did not rule him; the Spirit did. He seems to be a Spirit- filled person - the result of a process that, no doubt, has involved suffering and forgiveness. (I’d love to know his life story) He has a great capacity to know God and know God’s heart. That’s where he is. He was quietly weeping with God. He left with God’s love burning in his soul. That’s the message, I perceived.

QUOTE: it just depends on what they are preaching against.

“against”?
I suspect that I was stirred by Paul W’s sermon because he was so fixed on God - rather than the thing he was “against”. Paul invigorated my hope in God. Without knowing much about Paul, I got the impression that his entire life perspective is focused on the love of God in his Son. Paul was FOR the goodness of God. As he said, it is the goodness of God that changes people.

More ramblings:
This, I think is where evangelists and preachers are easily misjudged. They are evaluated by how hard they preach “against” something. The stronger, the better! But let’s remember, that appeals to our fleshly indulgence. Our flesh likes power, and our flesh is excited by brute force against the perceived evils. History proves that propensity to be true on a very large scale – and with most grievous outcomes. There have been countless angry and manipulative preachers and causes.

Jonathan Edwards is famed for his sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God”. But what is far less known is his life – his personal and spiritual life, and his love for the sinner. He was centered on the goodness of God. Edwards had the love of God burning in his heart – and so his message rang true. Many have tried to copy his style, but they were merely sounding gongs, and their message did not ring true. They imitated Edwards’ (perceived) style, not his heart.

Diane

I can't stand watching people cry. When it is on tv, I switch channels. On the big screen, I look at something else. Paul Washer tends to get teary eyed when it comes to the cross. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11ASw5NRUw

However, I love to watch Paul Washer preach, because I love to watch and hear the preaching of Christ crucified. That which Paul does a lot, and emphatically. Yet, each time I watch him preach the cross, I can't stand him, but I bask in the glory of Christ on the cross in the message. Then the cycle repeats.

Glory to Jesus Christ. What a saviour.

Cheers.

hi, the word against is a sign of what the real problem is in the church body today.the GOOD NEWS is a very positive thing.we are not to major on darkness;but simply be the light. we are not to be the critics of the world but light of the world.we are to be salt not arsenic.i am so tired of the negativity and the haughty sourness of christians.why in the world would you want to join a bunch of negative vultures with no mercy,no love,no joy and no idea of the Love of God.the sermon was a great sermon and when Jesus died it was finished.........jimp how great a love for us that God would pour out His wrath on His only Son for the total payment for our sins.Jesus died on that cross for the JOY set before Him:His church.there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

bump

I have been reluctant to make a comment on this thread, but after viewing the video felt I must.

It's clear as day the man was finished his message.

It's very beautiful, the parallel he brings out between Abraham, who took his only son whom he loved, Isaac, and offered him for a burnt sacrifice to God.

There's so much to this beautiful passage. At one point along the way Isaac asks, "Father, behold the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?"

Abraham reponds, "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering."

And so... just as Abraham raised the knife to slaughter his son the angel of the Lord intervened. And Abraham looks behind him and sees a lamb caught in the thicket, and offers him in Isaac's stead.

And so he calls the place Jehovah-jireh: the LORD will provide.

But the hour came when the Lamb Jehovah provided... it was time to offer Him. And the Father took His only beloved Son to the cross... and there was no intervention there.

Washer says it three times, pausing for a few moments between them:

"And He slaughtered Him there..."

"He slaughtered Him there..."

"He slaughtered Him there..."

And then he walks off. What more was there to say? He was finished.

...I would like to add a little something. I recall once an old preacher pulling out a dinner plate as he preached, and starting to chew on it.

Don't be like that, he said. Don't be like that. Eat what's on the plate. Don't be always chewing on the preacher.

I can't believe the topic of Washer walking off stage has garnered the attention of "9" pages on this forum! (I bet he can't either for that matter)

Here is a quote I heard from a compilation last week or two...

"Facebook and Twitter will be proof when you get to heaven that you DID have time to pray."
~ preacher from Minnesota

PS: I'd have to add 'sermonindex' to that list too (for me)!!! LOL

God bless us all!
Lisa

Lysa, I agree!

I have been gone for a day, but due to the concern of the phrasing in my last post I feel I need to clarify. I did say "against" but please understand that I did not mean it in that way, (that it is all that the sermon should be about is what the preacher or people are opposed to) but I tend to slip into that fundamentalist terminology due to my upbringing. You are completely right in your analysis of that statement, and I had never thought of that before in that simple phrase that seems to me so commonplace. Rather, I should have said "What they are preaching on" and that would be more appropriate. It is not my intention in the least to bring attention to a subject that is wrong, and that all preaching should be against something, though at some times that is neccessary. For that really makes little sense due to the fact that Paul Washer was preaching ON something. And that is, the precious Gospel of God that is so dear to all of His saints.

The focus on God and His Gospel are the reasons why I like Paul Washer and the Puritans, so please do not misunderstand me at all.

This was completely my fault for carelessness with my phrasing and lack of thought upon my phrasing. Please forgive me for my carelessness. I thank you for bringing attention to such a matter.

God richly bless you.

P. S. Completely right about Jonathan Edwards, a great man to be admired and learned from.

EDIT: Also, I was not talking about Paul Washer in that case, which naturally leads to misunderstanding, but was rather refferring to the need for certain kinds of preaching at certain times that must occur. Sometimes we need a man to "cry against" something, like the prophets of Biblical days, and sometimes we just need someone to expound the truth. But again, when you are preaching against something, the God Who is agianst it must also be glorified. Thank you again for your care in what is said.

regarding the word "against", Madefree said:

I tend to slip into that fundamentalist terminology due to my upbringing.
----------------------------------

Thank you for Madefree for raising this point. Yes, "fundamentalist" types are recognized for their tendency to be reactionary. "Against" a common word in their vocabulary.

I realized afterward that I had taken a gunshot approach to a longstanding beef of mine, and you were in the line of fire. This has less to do with your post than with a pattern that disturbs me.

I am thankful that Jesus wasn’t “against” my sin (as we hear the word used). He died for my sins. He took my sin in himself. And he covers me with his grace - every moment of every day.

Conversely the religious leaders of Jesus’ day (like many in mine) preached “against” sin – and in that way they made God hopelessly unapproachable. I think a lot of campaigns “against” certain sins are just as hopeless. They do little to bring about true conversion; and instead they pit the campaigner against the “sinner”. This is reactionary.

BTW, I decided to listen to several other messages by Paul Washer, with the “against” idea in mind. I would agree with you and say that Paul’s focus is not to preach “against” something as much as to expose that which is hidden from consciousness. Paul is FOR “truth” – truth in the innermost place – the truth about our own hearts. He is FOR the solution to sin, crying out in essence: “Prepare ye the way of the Lord!”. Paul stirred me to delve deeper into my own being and face a deeper level of truth – and thus prepare to receive a deeper level of divine love.

Thank you for pursuing this trail. I need to work on clarity too! This is how we can help each other.
Cheerily,

Diane

Thank you for sharing this. It has changed my life. Everyone do yourself a favour, listen to that sermon!

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