Christmas is evil

Christmas is fun!

Make Christmas a fun time of year.

No one has to go crazy buying gifts, but you know putting up colourful lights and singing godly songs and setting a table and be festive about our Lord's birth is all that one has to do, if they so wish it.

And I really don't care when Jesus was born. I know that He was born, He died and rose again for our redemption. And why can't it be done when everyone else is on holiday to celebrate it?

The people that I know that research that Christmas is pagan are the most tight wad scrooges that I have ever seen besides the Grinch of course. My Dad was one of them. He just didn't want to spend the money. And the great thing about it was, he didn't have to spend anything, he could have just spent time with his kids, but no, he made it so miserable for all of us. So when Christmas comes, I do the opposite of what he did. I love Christmas. Why just tonight I was at a store and I sang a few bars of a Christmas song and everyone looked over and they just smiled. I think the Lord smiles on that.

What does this verse mean to anyone?

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Anything that is good in this world is from God.

Paul is not qualifying anything at all. Is he? He says, "Whatsoever".

If you find something good in celebrating Christmas then you have the freedom in Jesus Christ to celebrate Christmas.

Every day of the week is a pagan name. Every month of the year is a pagan name. Hey, guess what? We live in a pagan world.

Who are we to judge our brother and sister and tell them that they are in sin for celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ during Christmas or His resurrection on Easter?

Excuse me while I go and put the star on my tree.

I live in North Pole :)

WOW. That's pretty rad. Is this the time of year when there's no sunlight 24/7?

Excuse me while I go and put the star on my tree.

O Star of wonder, star of night
Star with royal beauty bright
Westward leading, still proceeding
Guide us to thy Perfect Light

By the way, welcome, Approved. Good to have you here.

This time of year can be a struggle.

I love seeing lights on houses and trees, and seeing the bustling of peoples going to and fro. And I am thankful that we live in a country where Christian and non Christians give abundantly so that others who are less unfortunate can have a turkey on their tables this and every Christmas.

And we will all pray for you Maryjane that your struggles will be lessened this holiday season.

How about it everyone?

I'm just thankful we still call it christmas and not.

Gift Day or something like that.

I think it's safe to say pizza should always win over taco bell. ;P

MaryJane, I am sorry but often we are the cause of many of our own struggles. And often we take upon ourselves false burdens and convictions. In my fellowship, we have people from many backgrounds that have learned to love each other and been delivered from many false burdens and convictions.

We have reformed people, bible church people, pentecostals, lutherans and even from a cult (oh my), the Local Church of Witness Lee. We have chinese, indians (india) and Americans. I love it that the Indians and Chinese like to celebrate Christmas with us and they enjoy it, too. It's about being together and enjoying the Lord with each other.

They have all been set free to enjoy the liberty of Christ and love each other. None of them do anything that brings reproach upon the Lord.

Hi Approved, you think I have liberty? Look at Jesus in the Gospels. He completely and totally annoyed the Pharisees with His liberty. His goal was not to annoy anyone though and ours should not be either. His goal was only to please His Father. And we only want to love the Lord.

And the Lord just loves hanging out with us, regardless of our race, culture, language, family tradition, cultural traditions, or whatever.

Some of you have not travelled outside of the U.S. I have been fortunate to have travelled to over 25 countries. Christians in many countries retain family and cultural traditions that are good and wholesome and family oriented and that do not offend God. And guess what, these traditions are not in the BIBLE.

I think we need to be respectful of people who choose not to celebrate Christmas. Whether or not someone is saved has no bearing whatsoever on which holidays they celebrate. If it draws someone closer to the Lord to ignore Christmas then who are we to question that? That is between them and God.

At the same time, those who choose to refrain need to be careful not to sit in judgement on those who do celebrate Christmas. That can happen too. It's very easy to begin to think that we're taking the spiritual high road, especially when we believe the Lord has called us to do something that radically goes against the grain.

If you refrain from Christmas... refrain from it unto the Lord.

If you celebrate Christmas... celebrate it unto the Lord.

Christmas is not something that you can point to in scripture and say "we must celebrate it", nor can you point to it in scripture and say "we must not celebrate it".

But what we can point to in scripture is this:

Romans 14:5 "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

So be fully convinced in your own mind. Don't waffle. If you believe God has called you not to celebrate Christmas... and you do, then you sin against your own conscience.

If you believe it's ok to celebrate it, but you hold back to impress someone else... you sin against your own conscience.

Let's respect each other on this issue. BOTH SIDES.

And everyone needs to cease being so sensitive, thin skinned and easily offended. Really? We're going to get offended by something some stranger on an internet forum says to us... about Christmas? Really? Let's commit to getting over ourselves.

Oh... and Merry Christmas to those who partake.

For those who don't... Happy December 25th.

Hi HSD,

While I hear your plea for us to get over ourselves, and you made a very good post ...

And everyone needs to cease being so sensitive, thin skinned and easily offended. Really?

Cheerfully failing to live up to one's loved ones expectations, is not always easy for a mum or dad.

Yep... you're right. It is hard. It's called "counting the cost". Now, I am of the mindset that it's ok, and even wonderful, to celebrate Christmas. I recommend all who do do so with zest and zeal. But if someone chooses not to, that's ok too!

But I cringe when you say "Cheerfully failing to live up to one's loved ones expectations, is not always easy for a mum or dad." because Jesus made it clear that there was a cost to following Him, and sometimes that cost was division in the family unit.

Jesus unifies His people, but He divides His people from those who are not His people.

It's interesting that you even mentioned "mum or dad". Check this out (Jesus' own words too!):

Luke 9:57-62 As they were going along the road, someone said to him, "I will follow you wherever you go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." To another he said, "Follow me." But he said, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father." And Jesus said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God." Yet another said, "I will follow you, Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home." Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

I would venture to say that if one's faith does not cause division among one's unsaved relatives and friends... then one needs to examine themself and see if they are truly in the faith to begin with.

MaryJane,

Thanks for this clarification.

"...I am not saying that those who celebrate should drop their plans and not take part just acknowledging that for some it can be a very lonely time of year."

I wasn't sure where you were coming from. I also, don't believe that those who wish not to celebrate Christmas are legalistic. It is a worldly holiday, afterall. And I do respect people's convictions, meaning I would not flaunt something in front of them.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

There are also people that push "Biblical" HolyDays, and yet we are not under any compulsion to observe them, either, even though that is becoming more and more, a prevailing teaching today in some circles.

Whether we observe or don't observe, we should do all to the glory of God.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I know it is very lonely for some. My experience is that it is usually because of family dynamics surrounding the holidays.

I had a Plymouth Brethren friend whose parents were missionaries. His parents celebrated Christmas and had a Christmas tree. When he grew up, his convictions changed and he would never bring his wife or young children to visit his parents during Christmas vacation. He was young and trying to prove something to his Mom and Dad.

It was a lonely time for his wife, kids and parents. And I always thought it was so unnecessary.

There is such a thing as convictions and there is such a thing as heavy handed spiritual abuse.

We major on non-essentials and forget the most important things about walking in love.

I am sorry if I came across judgemental. I have friends that do and don't celebrate Christmas. It is not big deal to me. It is a big deal to some of those who don't celebrate. Some of my friends who don't celebrate it are very judgmental about it, but I could careless about it one way or the other. There was a time when I did not celibrate either, because I thought it was EVIL. But, the only thing that was evil was in my own heart.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

But, I realized I was getting judgemental towards those who did celebrate it and thinking I was being obedient and more spiritual. It actually never added one cubit to my spiritual stature.

I just hate to see Christians alienate one another over non-essentials and I have determined not to alienate anyone whether they celebrate or don't celebrate.

Anytime you are alienated from loved ones or alienate loveds ones, it is lonely. It is just a fact of life based on, yes, people's personal convictions. Sadly, much of it happens around the holidays when people want to get together with their families.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I have seen brothers want to make very strong statements to their lost parents or friends and rather than exude the fragrance of Christ and drip with fruit, they go the other way and prove to the lost that they are Christian, by the the things that they DON'T DO, rather than being known for the Fruit of the Spirit.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Yes, I agree Ginny. I updated my post, btw.

Thank you for your thoughts.

And Ginny, I just wanted to add, neither person is wrong.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

What is wrong is to alienate each other and to judge each other.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Don't get me wrong. I get it, too. I really want to be clear about that. It is a real shame and it all comes down to heart attitudes towards one another.

Jesus is the One that is important and walking in love, not all these other things that are passing away.

It really has morphed from a Pagan festival honoring the Queen of heaven..[ for about 5000 years, celebrated on December 25th..]and the worship of the Baals,[fallen demon princes..], and the new birth of the ancient Satanic sun, to a Commercial/Party/Family Celebration; around the world.

I imagine there are yet some dark Druid and Babylonian cults today that actually practice the original Satanic worship intentions.

There can be no argument that it has nothing to do with Christ, as has been noted. Is it then intrinsically evil?

Rom 14:14 "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
pilgrim777

It is a MAJOR holiday when families congregate. This is neither good or evil. Everybody seems to enjoy themselves, and they get an holiday...[Even the poor..] Remember Tiny Tim?..:}

Gifts are given, geese are cooked, trees are decorated, cookies are left for Santa, all on December 25th, as it was with the pagan celebrations for millenia before Christ.It was unheard of in the true church until late in the 3rd century, introduced by Rome.[ the carrier of satanic Babylon ]

But, is it evil? Today, it is so shallow, so different from it symbolic roots, I doubt it; that is in itself as pilgrim777 noted.

It's expensive, and I don't like the idea of telling our children that Santa is an omnipotent being who KNOWS if you've been naughty or nice, and transcends the WORLD as he sees fit to distribute booty to the faithful.

I tell my grand-kids that Santa is a lie, and imply that Christmas is a fun family giving day, and celebration. Most children in America have faith in an all knowing god named Santa Claus, but have never heard about Jesus, the only omnipotent God of gods and Lord of lords. This is one shame about Christmas, for Christmas is largely for kids.

These ideas often hinder a child's faith later on, when they discover that Santa was a lie, propagated by Mom and Dad.A jaded mentality sets in, where any Divinity is questioned.

Imagine, if we told our children and grand-kids everyday that Jesus was the God who made them and us and all, and spoke of His sacrifice and death in the same simple terms?...starting at about 18 months or so; and PRAYED with them!!!!....and yet most parents assure them that Santa is coming. This may be an evil aspect of Christmas.

The weariness of the holiday, and the emotional pressure it puts on me, EVERY YEAR! is wearisome to me. I swear it off in January, and backslide that year every December.I guess, for me, it is a holiday, where I can get a happy time with my own. I give gifts to some, and go on with God. It doesn't affect my walk with God at all.

To the pure, all things are pure; yet, I think, we should strive to bring the lordship of Jesus into all aspects of our lives, including Xmas.

There was a good book called "Pagan Christianity" that came out a couple years ago. Can't remember the authors name, but it discussed the pagan origins of many of the practices that we ALL participate in the evangelical church. Traditions we hold near and dear to our hearts in Biblical churches.

Why do we think those things are ok, but rip Christmas apart? We need to be consistent. If we are not going to participate in one thing because of it's pagan origins, we need to not participate in ALL things that have pagan origins.

Otherwise we are hypocrites.

Traditions nullify the Word of God when we lift them up above the Word of God... in other words we elevate them and make them more important.

It does not say that traditions of men are evil in and of themselves. That is a distortion of scripture.

By the way, you misquoted me (because I changed my wording from condemn to "not participate in"... big difference).

Cookies!

It is one of those holidays where I have experienced that many lost people are more open to talking about Jesus. I use it as such.

My kids know the history of Santa and that he is a myth and a lie. No problem there.

It is also a great time to talk to lost family members rather than shun them.

It's good to be free, folks. Good to be free to love all men and try to help them see our Saviour.

As I said earlier today it matters not if someone does Christmas or does not do Christmas so long as whatever they do they do it unto the Lord.

And frankly I would prefer if more people did not celebrate Christmas because simply put it means more Christmas cookies for me. And really, when you boil it all down, isn't that what Christmas is all about anyway?

Wish you and your loved ones the very best, too.

I was eating lunch with two Indian (India) guys I work with. One is Hindu and one is Christian.

There was some Christmas music playing. The Hindu guy made me laugh. He likes the song, "Santa Baby". I almost coughed up some food, I was laughing so hard. He was laughing also. It was fun.

Later a song came on about Jesus and he started asking questions and we ended up talking about all kinds of things related to the Lord. Everything from the garden of Eden, Babylon being in Iraq, the angel appearing to Joseph to protect Jesus, and death. How death is the great equalizer. Rich or Poor, it visits us both and how Jesus Christ conquered the grave.

I don't know any other time of year when people asks questions on their own about Jesus. For some reason they feel more comfortable about it.

God uses everything!!

I am glad everyone has prayed about these things, that they have honestly searched their own hearts and come before the Lord to ask what HIS will is in this matter with no preconceived answers. That is truly what matters most. It breaks my heart to say that I have family members who never have asked the Lord what HIS will for their life is when it comes to taking part in some of the traditions that they are accustomed to. They just grew up as children in church family, in church settings, where celebrating Christmas was always the thing you did so they never stopped to ask the LORD what HIS heart on the matter was. I wish you who have taken part in this thread the very best.

I understand your heart in what you write, and you are correct! But also please understand that many believers celebrate Christmas with much joy and excitement directed completely upon Jesus. I know I do, and since that is the case for me... it's never ocurred to me to pray and ask if what I was doing was against His will. Why? Because He gets the glory in my life.

What we all need to understand is that it is absolutely possible for God to call one person to refrain from celebrating Christmas... and then allow another believer to absolutely celebrate it with gusto... and they would both be in the perfect will of God.

But let's get honest for a minute. Do you know what this debate reminds me of? And argument in the Bible over eating meat offered to idols. Some believers argued that anything offered to idols had been defiled and therefore unfit for any Christian to consume. Other's (including Paul) said meat is meat, and idols are nothing and therefore we can partake in complete freedom. HOWEVER... those who have that freedom should not partake in such a manner as to be a stumbling block to others. And I would be remiss if I did not give the whole counsel of God... he used the term "weaker brother".

Sorry, I've got to say what the Bible says. I was tempted to leave that out, but if I did then I would be messing with the context.

I'm not saying anyone here is weaker than someone else!

What I am saying is both parties in this debate can be right and equally called of God to do either one. Who can understand the mind of God? Not me.

So there ya go... munch on that.

(EDIT: PLEASE DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON THE WEAKER BROTHER THING!! THATS IN THAT CONTEXT OF SCRIPTURE!! I'M NOT JUDGING ANYONE!)

hee-haw, hee-haw, er, amen.

It only takes a spark to get a fire going...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE