joeSOC
Hi has anyone heard of Mike Bickle and the Internation House of Prayer. What is your opinion ?
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IHOP - Mike Bickle
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M
mguldner
I don't know the intentions of the poster but this is dangerous ground. With all due respect I hope it gets shut down before we see some very poor behavior and opinions fly of their hinges.
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joeSOC
My apologies it was a genuine question. I am happy to leave this unanswered.
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mguldner
No worries and I am sure you will get your answer, but its been a pattern that when someone asks about a certain ministry the gloves of opinion come off. I encourage your curiosity just thought I would share what may probably occur. But perhaps we will learn to speak with a gracious and merciful tongue this time around. :)
I know there are some who strong oppose Ihop and there are some that strongly support. This is generally the Recipe for diastor unfortunately.
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joeSOC
My reason for asking is that I have a brother who is seriously considering this and I am not getting a good vibe about it. So I wanted to find out what is the general consensus of opinions around here
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mguldner
that will depend on who you ask :) I personal have no real problem with Mike, I have gone to Ihop a couple of times and the atmosphere is very interesting. Something you don't usually get everyday. The 24/7 prayer is quite interesting and it was refreshing to be in a place where Jesus Christ was greatly talked about.
Please understand there are various opinions but believe its only fair to produce your own opinion. :)
T
twayneb
joeSOC: Mguldner is right about one thing. Many develop very strong feelings and opinions about different ministers and ministries. These opinions come from a host of different places. For some it is out of fear, others loyalty to a denomination or teacher or teaching, others a true concern for truth, and on and on we could go. It is not always fruitful to talk about a particular minister, especially one who for some is controversial.
That being said, I have had some first hand experience with IHOP, although I have never met Mike, and can say this. My son went through a crisis in his life in which he almost abandoned his faith altogether. It was a VERY tense Thanksgiving day that particular year. I am so thankful for a man who was also influential in my son's life who spent hours with him that day instead of his own families celebration.
My son attended a two week teen camp at IHOP that summer and as a result decided to take part in a 9 month internship at IHOP. It changed his life. He returned with a fire and zeal for God that has never left him, and he is now in pursuit of God, working in inner city children's ministry in a different city and in a totally different flow from IHOP. I have spent quite a few hours in the prayer room there and have been to several services and conferences there. While I do not agree with everything they teach doctrinally, I do sense that it is a place where there is a genuine move of the Spirit of God and would recommend it.
I know there are those who would disagree, and you can search the forums at SI and find much debate and discussion about it. I only have my own testimony and that of my son.
I would visit their website and read carefully what they are all about. You can even watch live streaming from the prayer room to get a feel for what that is like.
Blessings.
J
joeSOC
Is there anything in their doctrine of beliefs that stick out as not orthox
Is there anything in the way do prayer and worship that would not be in alignment with pattern described in the bible.
Thank you for the feedback.
K
knitefall
oh Lord, here we go again. Just watch a small clip from their web site. If THAT does not freak you out and make you want to run away, do some research on the lighthousetrails website and look up something called the Kundalini awakening.
M
Miccah
Let the Lord lead you and your friend. He will not lead you astray.
E
Earendel
*SIGH*
It is truly unfortunate that the judgement of God comes to all of Christianity, not just the IHOP.
NO ONE is going to escape what is coming - which is the threshing floor. Interesting thing about wheat, the chaff(hull) and the grain are beaten together until the chaff falls away from the grain and the wind blows it away leaving the wheat berry on the threshing floor all by itself, which comes first before it can be gathered into the barn (rapture).
If there is one thing that grieves the Holy Spirit it is this.
Drunkenness.
Everywhere in scripture when I read about this, it is always a sin, and those who indulge the flesh in this practice shall never inherit the kingdom of God, at least that is what the bible says:
"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:10
Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?
Why refer to something that is "so holy" and "so pure" and clean and good and refer to it as in the carnal, fleshly, unrepented, as a sinful indulgence of the flesh as "gettin drunk"? Doesn't anyone see the wrong in this?
It is truly wonderful to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but this is very holy and beautiful and not carnal like 'gettin drunk'. I love the presence of the Holy Spirit when He overshadows me; I love and worship God in my soul in those moments like I can never describe it here with words.
This is not the only reason why judgement comes.
I don't even know how to start this, but here goes.
This is the first judgement that comes, which falls on what is called the church - Christianity (all of the many thousands of denominations of it).
The Church received power for Godly living and testimony on Pentecost - It is through the righteousness and grace of God that the free gift of the Holy Spirit is given, even to us, who through obedience to the faith in Christ Jesus are made righteous by His shed blood...in that He took away our sins, and in the absence of sin the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled; therefore, the Holy Spirit could come. It was not until Jesus Christ had ascended to the Father, after His resurrection, that the Holy Ghost could be given - which is the promise of the free gift.
And this is why the Holy Ghost could be given freely to us:
"Where there is no sin, the Law of God cannot condemn, but is fulfilled."
Jesus Christ, with His own blood entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption for us. It was not until sin was removed (through the cross of Christ), and the righteous requirements of the law were fulfilled (absence of sin), that the Holy Spirit could come, who wrote the laws of God on our hearts rather than on tablets of stone...even as it is written "I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."
It is a common statement of Christianity today that we have to live with the "sinful nature" in this life as long as we live.
This is a lie!
The teachers of Christianity today take the Apostle Paul's writing out of context when he stated:
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Romans 7:18-20
...they read this as though we have to live with this:
"no power for Godly living" always.
But the Apostle was referring to life "before" the Holy Ghost was given.
They miss what he says next in his logical basis of a procedure - his line of thought, rationale and teaching which is:
For what the law could not do(written law on tablets of stone), in that it was weak through the flesh (because we could not keep the law through the flesh), God (did) (by)sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (took away the sins - so that power for holy living could be given by the Holy Ghost in us):
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (absence of sin through the blood of Christ), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4
For if you live according to the flesh (For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do) you will die; but if by the (Holy)Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body (power for righteous and holy living), you will live. Rom 8:13 (parenthesis emphasis above is mine)
And this is why judgment comes, because we have neglected so great a salvation...which is the God life in us through His Holy Spirit.
But I cannot refer to the judgement of God without referring to His great mercies for humanity (of whom I am a largest recipient)...because as it is written God is not willing that any should perish.
And I am not talking about sinless perfection here (we still have to deal with Eph 6:12 on a daily basis which is NOT the sinful nature), but they will be taken out of the way soon enough as per: Revelation 12:7-10
... but I am referring to the way into the Holiest of All, the very presence of God (in us) - the Divine life, which God in his mercy has freely given to us (the embryo or seed of God in us)the God life, the new creation, the new birth.
And this is the judgment - a certain fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - to deny the sanctifying work of the Holy Ghost through cessationist doctrine teachings. (Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power for Godly living - no God life in them)
We really need a true revival of the Holy Ghost...and we need a functioning body (Ephesians 4:11-13)
More on this latter, I really need to write this out.
God bless.
H
HyeSung
I appreciate Mike Bickle's resources (www.mikebickle.org) and have heard many testimonies of deliverance and healing coming from IHOP, plus I have the seen terrific fruit in my church. The houses of prayer and the "prayer movement", which IHOP stands behind, has changed the spiritual atmosphere in the churches in my area in many ways. Many churches are experiencing awakening to the HS and many in my church have grown a lot because of the teachings of Mike Bickle.
I understand the controversies of the past (Kansas City prophets, IHOPU's early days and cult allegations) and even Mike has apologized for his own immaturity. IHOP has matured in many ways and is a very fruitful organization.
I have heard people speak of this "kundalini spirit" and that is another story.
Blessings.
G
Giggles
From the forum rules:
"If you're posting a new topic, do not post something that has been discussed numerous times. Browse the forums first or use the Search function."
( https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36384&forum=13 )
Please brethren, utilize the wonderful search feature, as Greg has exhorted, before posting.
For this topic, I quickly found:
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Lysa
Joe,
At the very top of the home page of Sermonindex is the search features:
Sermons by Speaker / by Scripture / by Topic / by Podcast / by Search
Here are two discussions that I found through “by Search.”
“IHOP is to be questioned.”
This is from 2010/4/19
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33126&forum=48&start=80&viewmode=flat&order=0
NEW SHOCKING VIDEO - IHOP, Rick Joyner, Bill Johnson, Mike Bickle, John Crowder
This discussion from 2010/11/02
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35750&forum=40&57
Good luck with this brother!
Lisa
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sermonindex
\t
Below, is a post I put up in 2008 in response to Dmoney's testimony there.\t
" I was well received in a spirit of humility by the ministry leader Ed Hackett. He actually prophesied over my wife and I and was dead on. There was a confession that was recited and it had the Catholic Church in it. Because of serious false doctrine in the Catholic Church I believe that some one who knows Mike Bickle should talk to him about having a confession that seems to endorse the Catholic religion."
Dmoney's testimony at IHOP "One Thing" conference.
............................
My brother, how could I belabor my point any more? A confession with the Catholic church IN IT? Could you PLEASE post that prayer confession? I didn't know that they had gone that far. [ publicly at least..]
............................
dmoney..
"The real question is does IHOP teach salvation through Jesus Christ and to obey His command to love God with all your heart ,soul, mind and strength and to love each other as Christ loved you John 15:12-13 John 14:15-24 The answer to this Question is yes they do.
They have a deep allegiance to Jesus and his commands even to the point of death.Proverbs 4:7 tells us how to get understanding. This is exactly what IHOP teaches; total abandonment."......... dmoney
............................
It is total abandonment to live a sacrificial life to the CAUSE, Mike's vision to be a forerunner; an Apostolic Prayer missionary. It is a NEO-MONASTIC order that emphasizes disciplines and duty to become that flame for God, and they use the exact Babylonian techniques that the RCC has used for millennia; and now evidently, according to your testimony, they are proclaiming the Catholic Catechism [ indoctrination ] over the vulnerable in prayer and Prophecy!
I don't know if I can say anything else. I'm stunned, frankly...that with this knowledge, and your apparent awareness of the Satanic nature of the RCC, and it's practice and doctrines ENDORSED and legitimized by IHOP; you continue to support them, and remain.
Are you being mesmerized by all the religious activity? Are you slowly being blinded? Is your hearing fading away? Brother...you know too much. Now your acting like your a part of them regardless of what they teach and do, because they are so "abandoned", and that is dangerous. They are abandoned to another gospel, and another spirit! can't you see that? It is a counterfeit religion of sacrifice and works. This spirit has cost many their eternal souls.
Brothertom.
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sermonindex
Mike had a puzzling spiritual encounter that involved a black horse, and himself being wounded by it as a smaller white horse, that he says was a monumental experience. This is the first time I have ever shared this publicly, but below is an open letter that describes my encounter with this entity.[dated Dec.,'10] As with all revelation, carefully discern yourself.
I want to say that Mike Bickle is filled with integrity and devotion, and a man whose word you may trust. I believe that he has fell into bondage, and alas, is taking many, many with him into this abyss. It is Babylon...New age ecumenicism.\t
THE BLACK HORSE.
In 1994 , while living in south Kansas City , and a part of KCF,[ Metro,] I had a vision. Part of it was "open", in that it was a reality; a participant was real, and alive. This being was Satan himself, as the Red Dragon. [his body upon the earth , especially in the affairs of men ; the progenitor of the religious spirit.]
It began in the living room of one of the many town houses that sprinkle the area. they are usually a living room at the door, and kitchen behind it, with a stairway that leads upward to two or three bedrooms.
There was a Christian gathering below; a fellowship happening. There were men and women relatively happy, eating finger-food, and intermingling. As I watched, I noticed the staircase leading upward to the bedrooms had a window at the turn , and there was a face looking in the window, that seemed vaguely familiar. It was the face of a man.
It drew me upwards, from curiosity, and intrigue. there was something about this face odd; different. I walked to the top turn of the stairs, and peered into the window, where I was face to face with the man.
As I watched, the face melted away, just like a wax museum face might when set near a fire. I saw the true identity of the man then. It was a living and menacing dragon, a reddish one. This being was alive, as big as a house, and the body was a perfect replica of the dragon you may see in an old St. George etching, except that it was alive. It had cunning eyes, a snout similar to a crocodile, a tail, and a reddish hue around it.
I knew that it was Satan himself, behind the window. Menacing would be the emotions I felt.
I then watched the living room below, and there appeared a black horse with a rider. It was the biggest horse I had ever seen; perhaps 15 feet tall, very, very broad and strong. upon the horse was a man; dressed in black, with a Mohawk haircut, [ sides shaved, and a strip in the middle from neck to forehead..]. His hair was jet black, and stood strait up perhaps a foot high. He was in the middle of the living room, among the fellowship of the Christians.
As I watched, he turned the horse towards the wall, and it dissipated before my eyes, and the entire world appeared before me. He then burst right into the cosmos, and rode away with great speed and power into it.
The vision ended.
My thoughts: I had no idea the full meaning of this for 15 years. I knew, however, that it had to do with a religious spirit imparted to the church, and KCF in particular.
Once, at the Metro church bldg., down at Grandview, [where the church still meets..] I had another experience with this spirit. A man was speaking who was involved in prophetic ministry[ he will remain unnamed, unless you ask...]. He was exceedingly proud of the fact that he spent so much time praying, and meditating , and he was testifying to his own grand attainment as a deeply spiritual prophet. He went on and on...
I saw a reddish spirit , like a blanket, 10 by 20 feet, that came out of his mouth. This was not cartoonish; it was open, in reality. [ My eyes were open ]. This spirit floated above the 2000 or so people there, and wherever it traveled...[ a few feet above the heads of the congregation...] it NUMBED THEM, to the degree, that their heads dropped down, and they passed out for a few seconds.
This was a very pure form of what the religious spirit is; the attainment of man from man through man. It is satanic Babylon, and it is Satan himself in the church.
It was amazing, and very real. I watched this for a while, not knowing that I was in a vision, or trance...and poked my friend there with me, and cracked a joke. "This guy could make a million in an insomniac's convention!"
A spirit of hilarity came over me, like I have ever experienced. "I will laugh at their derision!"[ Yahweh ]. I believe it was a form of protection for me, an element of warfare.
THE BLACK HORSE AND MIKE BICKLE:
The Black Horse, in it's purist form is New Age Ecumenicalism, the idea of extreme grace; that many roads lead to God, and of the one mind that Babylon expresses through religious activity. There are very real and powerful deceiving spirits that are released through these "doctrines of devils", and they lay apart from the simple Pauline doctrines found in autonomous , grounded and the simple local church setting, with equal and plural, unprofessional shepherds.
It is indeed the one and same black horse that is ridden in Revelation, along with the other 3. It is marauding the entire Earth; it is the gospel that speaks of all religions touching God, and creates varied mechanisms that are work based to deceive men that they can attain God by performance.
It is coupled with real experience and power. It is as old as Babylon herself, where Satan first set up the global mind that would bring him worship; and ever so subtle. After the Cross, Rome carried her torch in the name of Christ, and all of her practices; ALL OF THEM.. and her practitioners, imparted the unclean spirits of the Red Dragon. The monasteries, and the monks also, were but the seed bed to be possessed by the black horse, and they also rode upon her.
It is here that Mike Bickle stumbled, by accepting the RCC devotees such as Bernard and Guyon and even unrepentant Fenelon as having touched the higher paths of the Lord, when they were but slaves of the wicked anointing. "Meditative" prayer; [ inward gazing..] became the vehicle, and then the manifestations, [ OF A PURE AND EVIL RELIGIOUS SPIRIT ] BECAME THE PROOF.[ they are demonic in nature.]
It is here that IHOP was born. It is seen by Mike as a vehicle to a deeper devotion, while in fact it is but a replica of the demonic monastic practices of pure Babylon, the mother of the new age ecumenical power that now has devoured much of the earth.
Most if not all of Mike's friends in "ministry" are now possessed or infiltrated by the same. If not repented of, there will be great danger of wrath, for surely Babylon will be judged and fall. It presents a counterfeit joy, and power...always. It produces high spirituality, and cold love. This is the mark of the black horse, and it has wounded Mike; and he is under it's hoofs even now.
Back to the gospel of Paul, and the local church in it's simplicity. This is the only pure way to attain purity to please God, and to do exploits under His guidance.
[ All for Jesus, no matter the cost..]...Tom Watkins
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Lysa
To All,
Not one ministry (good or bad), is going to get by the Holy Spirit, not one. If they are bad, they will be shown forth as bad. The wheel grinds slowly but it grinds very finely. And if God is using them, do you really want to be found speaking evil of them? (any ministry?). I certainly don’t.
I think each one of us needs to worry about our own ministries; either God is working with you and confirming His word with signs following in your ministry... or He is not.
If He is not, then we had better stop putting down other people’s ministries and seek God as to why He is not confirming our ministry... what are we doing wrong in His eyes?
And if you have to add a “but” here, then I don’t believe that you’ve really read what’s been written; especially in the Bible. God is a big God, He can take care of Himself and if more people actually did have God confirming their ministries with signs following, I believe it would drown out all the other voices in the land.
God bless and just my humble two cents worth,
Lisa
L
learn
Earlier quote
[...and if more people actually did have God confirming their ministries with signs following, I believe it would drown out all the other voices in the land.]
Just had to address the above quote and its for any ministry in general.
Have not finished reading the thread yet (well, those with long posts), but the confirmation of a ministry etc is more when we see that the people are really saved. When they repent and change their lifestyles, their lives etc. True, signs and wonders may follow, but if this is the main criteria, instead of the whole other parts in the bible such as repent and take up our cross, then we may be very well deceived.
Don't forget these verses in the bible
Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.
2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
There was 1 thread here recently that touched on another person and even the supporters of the person agreed that one should be more focused on the changes in one's lives. Well, a new person then came and support another person that was connected with those things and through her honesty she actually revealed that that person looked for confirmation of his ministry with signs and wonders and that his followers/young ones looked up at him and wanted to be like him. Hmm.... isn't it interesting that the followers were not aiming to be more like Jesus and look up to Jesus instead of the preacher? This is what happens when we are more interested in looking for signs/wonders instead of looking for changes in one's lives as per the bible. Looking for signs/wonders is not necessarily wrong, but if that's the confirming part while ignoring all the rest of the bible, we may possibly be misled.
Here's the thread I was talking about.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36352&forum=35&17
Edit to add:
Also, its very important that we do not accept certain parts of the bible while discarding the rest. A person can change his behaviour to become good but if he follows a different gospel or his beliefs/actions/prayer etc is different from what the bible says, then we have to be very careful. People have changed their characters, selves etc to show 'fruit', becoming very humble, nice, sincere person in other religions too.
L
Lysa
learn wrote?
but the confirmation of a ministry etc is more when we see that the people are really saved. When they repent and change their lifestyles, their lives etc.
The day is fast approaching with all the addictions of people (even Christians) that God is willing to deliver these people; I believe He’s looking for people who are willing to walk in that kind of ministry. Are you willing to allow Him to use you in a deliverance ministry (or some way like that) or will you be with the crowd off to the side that is continually quoting Matthew 24.24 and 2 Thess 2.9 at them? I’m just being honest here; I’m not trying to be mean to you. We are going to have to run to the battle, no matter what it looks like.
And I just wanted to add that I wrote what the Bible says dear brother, I do not dare interpret what ‘confirm with signs following’ means; as you did. I do know that it does entail a changed life but that is not it!! There is so much more that we do not understand yet. He can confirm our ministries in any way, shape or form that he wants to. I refuse to fear the gifts of God.
I trust my God that if “I” walk uprightly before Him, He will withhold no good thing from me or those I minister too; no matter what they need or what it looks like!! To God be all the glory! (Part of walking uprightly before Him is not judging other’s ministries no matter how much you disagree with them.)
God bless you, Learn!
Lisa
PS: You probably won’t agree with me on this. If you must continue this, you can PM me your grievances so that we do not bog the thread down!! Our topic in not what the thread’s topic is about. God bless.
L
learn
Lysa,
Is quoting the scriptures wrong. Am asking people to look to what the bible requires wrong rather than a part of it. There's nothing wrong in it. Didn't Paul warn and name of those that strayed or misled others. Warning people and asking them to look to the bible and for discernment is scriptural. We are to protect the flock, not be nicey nicey. Its very easy to wash our hands clean and say we do not want to judge, that we may be wrong etc. We always appear better when we do so. Its always harder (though some may enjoy and abuse it) to warn people, to ask them to search the bible etc as we are then perceived to be judging, etc. This is no fun part and something that I do not take pleasure in.
Edit to add this paragraph:
Also, the bible never mention the word 'trinity' but we understand that that is true. Are we then to say because the bible never mentioned the word 'trinity', that we are adding something false or something like that. Similarly, a ministy that is blessed by God, will see people's lives changed--where they repent and follow God. Does anyone dare to say that a blessed ministry will not see people repent and follow God? Didn't the bible mention the fruit of the spirit for people that are saved. Didn't the bible mention about repenting and taking up our cross. Also, bear in mind, I did not say that this was the only thing that would confirm a ministry. Edit to add: you wrote part of what the bible says with signs but am I then interpreting it wrong when I said what I said. (Why don't you mention about the changed lives--the evidence of being saved)--edit to add : the ones in () I withdraw because you did mention changed lives--sorry for that. But I think you are mistaken if you think 'a changed life is not it'. Its most likely the biggest part of a ministry (though not limited to this)--that people are saved and the proof that they are saved is a change in life (repent and carry your cross--isn't that what the bible is. God save us to preserve a people for Him. He uses the trials in our lives and the work He places us to do so that He can mold us to be more like Him and also that we may share and be blessed in us spreading the gospel and worshipping Him).Also, you mentioned that you refused to fear the gifts of God. Now, I certainly didn't mention anywhere that I refused the gifts of God if you are thinking that of me. If so, pls quote me because I certainly didn't say or imply it.
[Lysa's quote
(Part of walking uprightly before Him is not judging other’s ministries no matter how much you disagree with them.)]
Part of walking uprightly is to protect the flock, warn the people who may be misled. Can one stand before God and say that part of walking uprightly is not to warn people when they are being misled, no matter how much one may disagree with the ministry etc. Huh??
What I've written in this thread is for any ministry in general as I mentioned in my earlier post.
This is something for everyone to ponder:
If your child/loved ones is being led astray by someone/ministry, will you be happy/accept when others say
that I did not warn him because I am not to judge (after all the bible did mention not to judge) no matter how much I disagree with him.
Now, take a step further and imagine if your child is being led astray to take drugs/steal etc. Hey, don't say anything because one may judge, no matter how much one disagree with taking drugs/stealing etc.
If so, one is understanding the bible wrongly ie lack discernment. The bible ask us not to judge--yes. But the bible also asks us to protect the flock and snatch others out from the fire. When we see people following wrong doctrines/ministry etc, then we are sinning if we do not warn them. This is not judgement, this is guarding the flock. and this is part of walking uprightly before God.
Now, can we make a mistake in warning people of a ministry when the ministry/person turns out to be true. Yes, of course we can. We all make mistakes. But just because there can be a possibility of us doing so, doesn't excuse us from warning people/protecing people from ministries that we feel may be false. If we are always afraid that we do something wrong when our intentions are right and after checking with the bible, then we may as well not move, or do anything at all. What we need then is pray to God for discernment.
To discern whether a ministry is false etc, we really need to look at the bible and pray. That's why I said in my earlier post--accept the whole bible and not parts of it. If we just take the part 'do not judge' and understand it wrongly--we end up not warning anyone, not protecting anyone and we let people go astray. Similarly, if we take the part about warning people but do not take the part about judging, then we will start giving our own opinions in all kinds of matter, many of those involving judgement. We need to take both and learn to discern when is it judgement and when is it warning the flock, snatching them out of the fire.
Thanks for the offer in your ps but I am asking people to be careful because I am deeply concerned with people possibly being led astray. Its so much harder to come back once one is led astray and even worse that person will lead others astray too. This is part of my burden, worried for God's children that they go astray. I remembered somebody saying elsewhere--the gist of it : I believe and was blessed in Lakeland revival and those that say its false, is just judging. So I guess, based on your view, you will let anybody go to the previous Lakeland and Todd Bentley's revival. Never mind if the person going there end up with the Kundalini spirit etc. Well, do you want to tell that person who nearly ended up with that false spirit that you will not warn her based on your view about judging. If so, I can point you to her.
Above paragraph edited to be more lucid.
I don't think this thread so far has been derailed by our posts because it really takes DISCERNMENT based on God's word (bible) to know when a person/ministry is true. However, I also believe that what has been said by both you and I have been sufficient and further posts on this is unnecessary.
Just to reitereate: my posts here applies to any ministry in general and not specifically to IHOP/Mike Bickle.
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sermonindex
This is a little lengthy, but documents clearly how the satanic practice of inward "meditative", or "contemplative" prayer is practiced at IHOP,and has opened the door to satanic Babylon and the infiltration of her filth by her masters, The Pope and the Vatican. Take a few minutes and read......
Mike Bickle On Contemplative Prayer (part 1)
By Jocelyn Andersen
Mike Bickle, director of the International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, and a well-known leader in the Prophetic Movement, claims that God is restoring contemplative prayer to the church. He goes on to claim that contemplative prayer is a God ordained means of entering into the fullness of God, and that the brightest lights in church history have been Roman Catholic mystics who lived during the dark ages. He went on to say the western church had much to learn from these mystics.
Anti-evangelical propaganda is prominent throughout his message. He informs his followers that they are constantly being put on the defensive by, and apologizing to, evangelical Christians for their intensity toward God by saying “Other Christians force us to hide our intensity—to wear a façade. “…even believers in Jesus…are made uncomfortable and intimidated by our spiritual intensity.”
However, he comforts them with the good news that they don’t “have to wear any facade” when they got together in little oasis’ “like this” (meaning his and other prophetic meetings). He continued his barrage against evangelicals by saying, “They don’t grasp it at all—being introduced into the deep realms of love.”
He claims the church of the western world has abandoned its inheritance to have the fullness of God (through contemplative prayer).
Bickle freely admits to pursuing eastern religious philosophies and had nothing but criticism for the Western Evangelical Church.
According to him, evangelical Christians are a pathetic and ignorant bunch. He says of us:
· “The Protestant wing of the western church, which is a tiny percentage of the Body of Christ…, is nearly completely (98%) unaware that the Holy Spirit is restoring contemplative prayer—center stage—to the church… The Holy Spirit is restoring this precious jewel (contemplative prayer) to the body of Christ. This is the God ordained means of attaining the fullness of God.” audio message Contemplative Prayer pt1 by Mike Bickle
He quotes from the contemplatives (his word for mystics) and announces that he will be teaching from the Sacred Pathways (which promotes the carrying of symbols or icons, choosing a mantra and visualizing God). Each one of these things is contradictory to the Word of God, which forbids imagery and vain repetitions in prayer.
He insists we need to study the lives and writings of the Roman Catholic mystics, and because the bookstore chain of Barnes and Nobles has carried so many books in this regard, he says (in all earnestness) that B & N is prophesying to the church that we need the mystics, and he wants to know why the church isn’t picking up on the fact that God is calling the entire Body of Christ to live lifestyles of contemplative prayer?
Below are quotes from Mike Bickle on contemplative prayer:
· “Every one in the Body Of Christ is called to live lives of contemplative prayer...”
· “Everybody is called to live in the contemplative lifestyle. Everyone! Everyone! Everyone! That’s one of the great strongholds we have to overcome (resistance to contemplative prayer).
· “…contemplative prayer, you gotta get over that hurdle! Barnes & Noble is prophesying it! Hurtle one we gotta understand it’s for everybody! Everybody is called to the fullness (contemplative prayer). We’re all going to go into this thing!”audio message Comtempolative Prayer pt1 by Mike Bickle
Another hindrance to contemplative prayer, says Bickle, is that we need to dismantle (“we” meaning evangelical Christianity) the idea that church history began with Martin Luther (I wasn’t aware we had that idea until he informed me of it).
Bickle says the most inspiring light in all of Christianity came from the Roman Catholic mystics during the dark ages. Below are quotes from Bickle on the mystics:
· “mystics is a legitimate term... I don’t want to fight the war…so I’m just saying contemplative prayer, but I mean the mystics—even here at IHOP I say, lets just stay with contemplatives …I don’t have time to argue… so I call them the contemplatives…. I don’t want to go into the semantics, the debates…so, I’m calling it the contemplatives… I don’t have time to argue… but I need the mystics.”
· “[They are] Some of the brightest lights in all of history… there has been the brightest lights in all history for men and women of abandonment in the dark ages… somewhere we have to say the dark ages were the luminaries in the grace of God…they were Catholic priests.”
· “…a study of the lives of the mystics, the contemplatives, through history, and clearly the most inspiring, compelling examples of history, in my world, have come out of the Catholic dark ages. I can’t find anything like it in modern times, in America, in the protestant world.”
· “…we need a little Holy Spirit catalytic jump start. We need to see where a few have gone before us, and say if they did we can, and we can go further… and if you’re going to go deep into that well, I’m sad to say, the vast majority of them are going to have Catholic roots in history.”audio message Contemplative Prayer pt1 by Mike Bickle
Bickle minimizes the false doctrine of Roman Catholicism by saying, “But didn’t Catholics do some funny things…? Well, when you stand before the Lord you’ll find out you did some funny things too.”
Bickle heavily promotes Bernard Clairvou (who he claims was a just a quiet little monk who only wanted to stay in his hermitage, praying and reading The Song of Solomon). He is clearly impressed with Clairvou’s healing ministry but leaves out the part where Clairvou travels extensively as a major instigator of the second crusade. He says, “Bernard Clairou became my most inspiring life outside the Bible.”
The writings of Father Thomas Keating (the modern day Father of contemplative prayer) are also promoted.
Bickle says these two mean are examples, for us, of, “a way to a deeper life in God.” He went on to say, “The protestant world is in great need of examples (like these) that will beckon us to the fullness of God.” audio message Contemplative Prayer pt1 by Mike Bickle
Mike Bickle is telling the Body of Christ that we are woefully deficient in having lost God’s fullness and need to look to New Age, Eastern philosophy and to Roman Catholic mystics as examples in how to restore it!
And his advice to questioning, spiritually languishing and anguishing souls (who didn’t know their real problem was that they wanted more of God—until he told them so) is this, “Don’t evaluate yourself, don’t evaluate others. Just keep going after it.” audio message Contemplative Prayer pt1 by Mike Bickle
In plain language that means don’t read or listen to anything discerningly or analytically. Don’t question anything or anybody—not even yourself (except evangelicals of course). Just go with what feels right.
How does that jive with search my heart O God and test my thoughts…? How about this one, “There is a way that seemeth right…?”
Bickle Quotes taken from the audio teachings of Mike Bickle on Contemplative Prayer at: http://mikebickleteachings.blogspot.com
For a Biblical view of contemplative prayer see: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/keating.htm
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THE NEW FACE OF MYSTICAL SPIRITUALITY:
[A DVD AVAILABLE AT LIGHTHOUSE TRAIL]..Ray Yungen
"In his clear and understandable style, Ray Yungen explains the dynamics of contemplative prayer."
Unlike biblical prayer, this “new” form of prayer halts the normal flow of thought processes and takes the participant into a mystical state.
Yungen not only explains how this is done, but he takes us to the ancient roots of this prayer practice that derives in eastern mysticism.
This vital teaching will equip you with not only an understanding of this practice but of its increasing popularity within Christian churches, colleges, and ministries.
"Although promising much in the realm of intimacy with God, you will learn how this practice delivers a package of SEDUCING SPIRITS and a pantheistic view that is characteristic of the New Age........................"Yungen on the DVD
Many ministers now see the scope of Ecumenism and New age infiltration. It is frightening, but we must stare it down for what it is. It will kill you, if you do not resist, and cling to the Word and Spirit, and Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father. True faith is simple and direct. Jesus is lord.
[I'm not promoting the DVD, what-so-ever, though the ideas behind it's making are biblical and valuable to discern the often muddy waters that portray eastern mysticism as christian and holy, and they are not. They will open you up to Satan and his minions.] BT
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I WANT TO VOMIT.
The Catholics and are big on living a "sacrificial life", and the more sacrificial the better; the more spiritual you become. It is a mix of commitment and works, and IHOP promotes the SACRED OATH, to compete in the neo-monastic legalism that IHOP is.
Towards the end of this article that you can view online, you will see that the adage, "FOLLOW THE MONEY" IS THE NEW MANTRA OF IHOP. It is an anti-Christ approach to Heaven, where the faithful earn the reward.
This is Mike Bickle's new offering;
"Welcome to SacredCharge.com "
For more information about Sacred Charge and the commitment to be a forerunner, we highly recommend you read Mike Bickle’s book 7 Commitments of a Forerunner before signing up.
The Sacred Charge is a sevenfold lifestyle commitment for those who desire to live as forerunners. The forerunner message emphasizes Jesus’ second coming, while proclaiming and manifesting the power of Jesus’ first coming, as forerunners win the lost, heal the sick, help the poor, and walk in love and holiness.
In this hour, the Lord is preparing forerunners from many different streams in the Body of Christ worldwide and is now calling some to embrace a season of rigorous preparation that will equip them to more effectively proclaim the forerunner message in the midst of the coming pressures.
Forerunners imitate the lifestyle of John the Baptist and the New Testament apostles, who rejected the professional robes of religion for a lifestyle of radical obedience to Jesus and walking in the power of the Spirit.
This involves embracing a lifestyle that includes much prayer with fasting as they seek to go deep in the Word, while at the same time winning the lost, healing the sick, making disciples, church planting, and operating in the power of the Spirit to meet the needs of people.
As forerunners proclaim the Word and do the works of the kingdom, they glorify Jesus and deliver the oppressed; by the very same activity, they are being prepared to be used even more in the years ahead.
In light of the crisis that confronts our generation, we must embrace a biblical lifestyle that will prepare us to be part of the answer. For those with a calling to be a forerunner and to raise up other forerunners, these commitments are the starting point to live out the forerunner lifestyle. The seven commitments are:
■Pray Daily: connecting with God while changing the world by releasing His power.
■Fast Weekly: positioning ourselves to receive more from God by fasting two days a week.
■Do Justly: being zealous for good works of compassion and justice that exalt Jesus as we impact the seven spheres of society.
■***Give Extravagantly: experiencing the joy of financial power encounters as we sacrificially give money to the kingdom and support the prayer movement.***
■Live Holy: living fascinated in the pleasure of loving God that overflows to loving people.
■Lead Diligently: taking initiative to minister to others and make disciples by regularly leading in outreaches, prayer meetings, and Bible studies.
■Speak Boldly: being a faithful witness of the truth with allegiance to Jesus’ Word.
***[THIS IS THE REAL COMMITTMENT! PAY TO PLAY! CASH FOR HOLINESS!]***
***"Sacredcharge.com exists to serve those who have made the Sacred Charge commitment ***WITH RESOURCES*** as well as give opportunities to connect with other forerunners.
These resources ***ARE AVAILABLE ONLY*** to those who have made the commitment to the Sacred Charge.
If you are interested in making the Sacred Charge commitment, please click the button below;"
[ INTERNET PAY PAL, CREDIT CARD BUTTON TO PAY FOR PRODUCT.]
[caps and asterisks mine...]
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