Menu

Revelation - the 3rd seal

S
sermonindex

Hi saints

Rev 6:5 When he opened the 3rd seal, I heard the 3rd living creature say, "Come!" And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And it's rider had a pair of scales in his hand.

The term translated here as scales, is the Greek word "Zugon", it is the same word that is used in Matthew 11:29, 30 translated there as "yoke".

A yoke is a wooden bar that joins/bonds 2 draft animals together. In the Torah it denotes severe bondage, affliction, or subjection.(Lev 26:13, 1kings 12:4, Lam 3:27). In the new testament it is used to denote servitude (Matt 11:29,30, Acts 15:10, Gal 5:1) Ref net bible.org/dictionary.

Note in Num 19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD has commanded. Instruct the Israelities to bring you a red heifer, without blemish, which has no defect and has never carried a yoke.

I have been shown this rider is our Lord Jesus Christ. I will continue this tommorrow and explain further, in relation to the rest of the passage.

S
sermonindex

Talk about exciting!

Finally. . .
someone who just may be on the very same page; yet with so much to do right here currently
and preparing for discouse about another topic on SI, (related--in a few ways--to what you write andie72), God has not led me to explain what you are now doing.

Here on SI, again and again, it's been seen how God prepares things for certain threads to just happen at the right time, following a progression from one thread and it's postings onto the next.

PRAISE GOD!
He does all things better than just right: the perfect time and place for everything to happen. . .
with impact.

From Him, this is another energy boost that seemed to just show up out of the blue catching me by surprise in good ways.

In this very thing He has now given me much much more gratitude.

You just keep on and i'm praying to this end.


Unto Him who is both our blessing and blesser
i'll keep on clap my hands jumping and leaping and praising Him who has declared the end since the beginning.

Praise Jesus: the very treasure chest of all wisdom and knowledge with understanding. In Him, we are not caught off guard. . .unless He just wants to surprise us.

Oh give thanks
and glory to God!

S
sermonindex

Rev 6:6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the 4 living creatures, saying "a quart of wheat for a denarius, and 3 quarts of barley for a denarius.

The barley sheaf offering is offered on the 2nd day of passover. It is a wave/peace offering waved/lifted up before the LORD.

The wheat offering is offered on the 50ith day after the barley offering. It is represented as 2 loaves of levened bread. From passover until now the bread is unlevened.

The barley represents Jesus Christ high priest and barley, offering himself up to the LORD, athough his sacrifice had many other values also). The Passion.

The wheat offering is our offering of spiritual fruit rising/waved before the LORD, spreading/expanding with new leven. The pentacost.

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ, we offer ourselves (singular), and are accepted as righteous (tribune/divine number 3)

Thank you for your support brother. All glory be to The Lord Jesus Christ:)

Ref Lev 3:9-17 Num 28:16-31
Wikipedia had information on feasts of the Jews, Biblical calender, helpful to read while you read the Torah.

S
sermonindex

I encourage anyone reading this to read about the grain harvest in biblical times, and the feasts to the LORD,.particularly the 3 pilgrim feasts (to Jerusalem). The grain offering is only one part of this. There are other offerings also which Jesus fulfilled.


The barley sheaf offering is offered on the 2nd day of passover. It is a wave/peace offering waved/lifted up before the LORD.

The wheat offering is offered on the 50ith day after the barley offering. It is represented as 2 loaves of levened bread. From passover until now the bread is unlevened.

The barley represents Jesus Christ high priest and barley, offering himself up to the LORD as a peace offering on our behalf, (although his sacrifice had many other values also). This is the Passion.

The wheat offering is our offering of spiritual fruit rising/waved before the LORD, spreading/expanding with new leven. This is Pentacost.

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ, we offer ourselves (singular), and are accepted as righteous (tribune/divine number 3)

Ref Lev 3:9-17 Num 28:16-31
Wikipedia had information on feasts of the Jews, Biblical calender, helpful to read while you read the Torah.

G
ginnyrose

The spiritualization of this passage is confusing to me.

In v.1 we see the Lamb, who is Jesus, opening the seals. So, then, it would follow that what these horses are is something that will happen literally...

But then, I do not want to enter into a debate about Revelation - it means too much to me - I love the book, it gives me much comfort. The book details the power, majesty of our LORD and Savior Jesus. It demonstrates that while evil may reign for a while, all of it is under the control of God who is working to bring all people to repentance through afflictions, trials and calamities.

S
sermonindex

Hi Ginny,

It is actually very physical things reaching their spiritual fulfilment in Jesus Christ. The Torah forshadowed what Jesus was about to do. If you find it confusing don't burden yourself with it Ginny, the LORD reaches us in different ways. Just abide in Jesus Christ. Also I am not denying other meaning in the passage. This is just one that made sense to me.

The Lord has been revealing/ opening up the scriptures to me for a while, and I have found it a bit overwhelming. I thought I would just share bits at a time, rather than being surrounded by bits of paper trying to connect it up. I feel this is what I am being led to do.

What I share I do with fear and trembling and I welcome correction from those more mature in the faith.

G
ginnyrose

Go ahead. I do not want to discourage you...we all are learning...I find Revelation so exciting...

ginnyrose

G
ginnyrose

Andie, I will not debate you although I may question you...hope this will not rattle you...I do find it obnoxious when people think they know ALL about Revelation and are closed minded to any honest questions put forth by serious students of the WORD.

God bless.
ginnyrose

S
sermonindex


All I seem to be able to come up with - my only thought and feeling inside right this minute and it's not sarcasm, but just a mind and body response at this moment - if you don't mind my joining in - just for now - this is all I feel & hear inside my puny brain at this moment = "Oy Vey"


Thank you for the opportunity to express myself in words also.


GOD Bless you all.

U
UntoBabes

The text is so simple to understand that it speaks of famine, one of the judgments of the last days.

As to the meaning of the word " Zugon " although it can mean a yoke, here in the text it means a pair of scales to weigh the wheat and barely to represent that food is scarce. When things are in abundance, they are not measured, but when they are scarce it is necessary to measure everything.

Why is the word "Yoke" used and not "scales".

The two words simply mean the same thing.
Scales in their ancient form were made of a rod that had two plates attached to the end. A weight was placed in one plate and the produce in the other.

When animals were used for labor to carry things such as water, a yoke was made that looked exactly like a pair of scales but instead of the plates two jugs of water or whatever that is to be carried by the animal was attached on both sides. Thus the word "Zugon" can be used to mean either "pair of scales" or a "yoke".


The reason why people like to spiritualize the book of Revelations is that they do not believe these are things that will take place in the future, so if they can make it all mean something Jesus did or fulfilled, no one can open his mouth saying: "Wait a minute, this is wrong".
After all, that would be taking the glory from the work of Jesus by refusing to see Him in every interpretation of every verse.

People have done so much harm to the Scriptures using these cunning devices, thus harming the Lord Himself.

B
bowmyknees

Amen UntoBabes

S
sermonindex

I think it would be best if I post the rest of these things elsewhere. I am not angry or hurt by yr comments,.but I can see it is not helpful for you, so I will stop here:)

Walk in love

Andie

U
UntoBabes

I do not apologize about one word I said in my previous post. In fact, it is not even my place, or right to ask for apology for defending the Word from false interpretations. But I do apologize for hurting you. That is not my intention. As members of one body, what hurts you hurts me too.

G
ginnyrose

Andie,

You love the LORD, of that I am sure...go ahead and post. When it comes to the book of Revelation, there will be differences of 'opinion', of how people understand it. We must always be in a learning mode. If I ask questions, I really do want to know.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

S
sermonindex

Believe me when I say I'm not hurt! I'm not sayng anyone said anything nasty or rude. I have just recognized that it is not helpful for some/?all of you, so my role now is to pull back. I'm not leaving just putting some of my thoughts elsewhere.

U
UntoBabes

ginny,

I know the Book is hard in some areas, and we will disagree in some parts. But let us at least agree where it is obvious. This specific passage is self explanatory. If we would just read the Scriptures and pray for God't light to reveal the Word for us there will not be much that we disagree on. Neither, me or Andie have the right to just run our imaginations wild where the Word is clear. We will give an account for this.

L
Lesserlight

It is good to study the feasts

However leaven is sin and nobody wants to offer up praise mixed with leaven

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Barley will not bond with leaven and the reason we see unleavened bread before Pentecost and leavened bread afterwards is because Christ who is without sin comes into sinful man as a light in the midst of a dark place. On the other hand wheat will bond with leaven that represents sin thus we have bread made with leaven representing Christians who have the Holy Spirit but are still dealing with a sin issue

A sin offering is without leaven the same as Jesus Christ is without sin who is our sin offering. Meat offerings were also without leaven and this is the fruit we want to offer up and not leavened bread.

Meat offerings were fleshless finely ground flour (fully prepared to do the Lord's work) without any leaven (sin) that is how we are to become

Consequently Paul said that we may be resurrected as some other grain because Jesus was sown into what is mortal so that we can put on immortality by being resurrected without sin the same as Jesus is........ Paul was saying you were sown in wheat for the hope of being resurrected as barley (the other grain that is without sin)

Jesus said to Peter that Satan wanted to sift him like wheat because that is what Satan does to the wheat (christians) that he was unable to do with the barley that represents Christ

However Jesus said to Peter that He would intercede for Peter "until he be converted (changed to barley) and be able to strengthen his brothers, Thus the death that Peter died that glorified God was his death to self that allowed him to be converted and resurrected sinless unto Christ.

Obviously churches that partake of leavened bread for the body of Christ during communion are doing so out of ignorance and are insulting God.

Blessings'

Doug

U
UntoBabes

Paul was saying you were sown in wheat for the hope of being resurrected as barley


):<

Ok, I am done with this thread.

S
sermonindex

Hi Lesserlight,

Lev 23:17 And you shall bring from your dwelling places 2 loaves of bread to be waved, made of 2 tenths of an Ephah. They shall be of fine flour, and they shall be baked with leven, as 1st fruits to the lord.

This is the offering of the first fruits 7 weeks after.the passover. It is called "the feasts.of weeks" or "the counting of the omar".

It is on the 50ith day following passover.

This parallels with Jesus Christ, at the passover the Israelites ate unlevened bread (removal of the leven of sin). The body of Jesus Christ was sinless.

And the feast of weeks, leven was added to the bread waved before the LORD. This parallels pentocost. The body of Jesus Christ grew with new leven.

Remember leven Isn't sinful in itself. It is just something which causes it to spread/rise. It is a physical picture of a spiritual truth

S
sermonindex

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ we long to be resurrected.as.barley.

Note that barley is the poor persons food,.or for animals. So to the natural man 3 measures or barley do equal the single measure of barley. The spiritual man knows that he needs to yoke himself to Jesus Christ because our Father in heaven values thing differently than the father who rules most of the earth.

L
Lesserlight

Hi Andi

All of the harvests had a wave offering of the "firstfruit" and after it was approved of by the high Priest then the general harvest could begin....... before then only a firstfruit was harvested and presented to the High Priest for inspection.

During the harvest the wheat is threshed and this is what happens to us once we are approved as a firstfruit unto the Lord. The threshing process removes the hard outer shell of the wheat (circumcising of the heart) in order for the edible part within it to be prepared as fine flour

Becoming Perfect and Holy is what we are called to do and before Pentecost there was nothing good about us to offer to the Lord. Apply that to the parable of the talents and the rewards given to those who did well with what they we given is how we are judged for what we have accomplished through our Pentecost anointing

Although Christ comes into us at Pentecost we still are dealing with a sin issue. Paul spoke of it in Romans 7 that he had the law of sin living within his body. But even though we are still stuck with sin living within us we can overcome it

Sin is not always a verb and in this case it is a noun that because it is "by law" means that it is always present and is what Paul said kept him from doing what he wanted. Sin as a noun operates through the law of the seed therefore brings forth a verb in its own image that is a sin. Faith works the same way and the law of faith is a more powerful law than the law of sin is because Jesus is given a name above every name and the faith in you is the faith of Jesus.

Still like gravity sin is always present and Paul prayed three times that it would be taken from him in 2nd Cor 12 but for now we remain wheat mixed with leaven until we are finally perfect. Until then we are to be able to be presented as "chaste virgins" that is not a virgin but living as if you area virgin (sinless)

Leaven is most definitely sin and that is why barley (Christ) will bond not with leaven but wheat will because we are not yet perfect and because wheat and leaven will bond together is why so many Christians slip and fall back into sin.

Pentecost when we get the indwelling spirit that is to write the laws on our hearts is the necessary first step to overcoming sin after being forgiven of our sins at Passover

When Moses was given the law it was at Pentecost and once the laws are fully understood and written our hearts then we will overcome sin because what is in the heart controls the body.

Blessings

Doug


S
sermonindex

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


C
Christinyou

Jesus is God and He lives in me. Glory to God.

How are we made perfect?

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

By His working in us. Not by the Law. But, by His perfection that is born again in us. Our striving is according to His working in us, this is what makes us perfect to the Father. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Dead to sin, alive unto God by the Son that is birthed in us.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Spirit of Christ born again in our spirit, that is what makes us perfect, not the deeds of the Flesh.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Ro 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ga 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. Unto the Galatians written from Rome.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Php 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

The fulfillment of our birthing; Philippians 2:1-5 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

We have the Mind of Christ; Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Ro 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

With one, one mouth, let us glorify God in the Highest, the highest is "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

L
Lesserlight

As Paul said the first covenant was weak though the flesh meaning that it could not change the flesh because it was only written in stone

However Christ in us is the one writing the laws on our hearts that is fulfilling a promise given first in the OT and then twice in the NT

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

It is Christ doing the work but until the Christian's heart is circumcised and their rebellion against the law be turned away, God Laws are not going to be able to be written on our hearts

Christ fulfilled the law and if what is being formed in a Christian is not fulfilling the law then what is being formed is not Christ.

Pentecost is the giving of the law

Blessings

Doug

S
sermonindex

2Pe 1:20, 21 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
.... as well as the Apostle John.

Do you who spiritualize the LITERAL events that occur with the 4 horses/horsemen also spiritualize the Fifth Seal?

Rev 6:10,11 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season,
until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Or the Sixth Seal ?


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I wasn't playing on page 1 - I literally began to shake and am grieving for those who are seeking the end of these "uncertain sounds" or goings off topic, as far as when it comes to the prophecies of future events.

Please take The Revelation seriously. Those warnings above are serious.

If you're going off topic - knowingly or not - please don't confuse anyone - just start another thread.

The high view count is because His Saints are feeling these horses biting at the gate, so to speak, and they're wanting answers to what they know are LITERAL events.

Please & Thank you.

S
sermonindex

I think I am agreeing with you that our salvation is through Jesus Christ.

I am just suggesting that the 3rd horse part of revelation looks like the saints!

Wheat yoked to barley..
Anointed with oil...
Wine - the blood of Christ.

I don't think I am adding to scripture. I just see more than famine in that verse. I don't have a revelation "position" as.such. I just read through now, and that jumped out at me. I don't understand most of it.

Anyway I feel I have expressed what I see,.maybe not perfectly, but to the best of my ability:)

And by the way I do feel like the scriptures have opened up to me in some way by the spirit of God. Anyway that is all I'm going to add to this thread.

S
sermonindex

Andie, I don't have aught with you, I'm only saddened because every night that I listen to the World News, I hear horses galloping - so to speak - and hear Jesus' words over and over again from Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 along with that.

We'll see soon enough friend. I just believe that when Jesus said, "Behold, I have told you ALL things" (regarding those chpts above) that He wanted us to be forewarned in order to be Spiritually & emotionally forearmed.

Thank you for your reply.

S
sermonindex

I have been studying the scriptures.some of you have posted, and you are right in 1Cor, 5 says you should eat the unlevened bread. We eat the unlevened bread of the last supper. Thank you for that :)

I still think the third seal refers to the saints, and.protection of them. We are the wheat and Christ is the barley.

L
Lesserlight


I have been studying the scriptures.some of you have posted, and you are right in 1Cor, 5 says you should eat the unlevened bread. We eat the unlevened bread of the last supper. Thank you for that

That is good news Andy and I am happy for you.

Anytime we get a revelation that increases our knowledge it comes from Him for reasons that He has for you. Now when you look at the other times that leaven is used in the scriptures you will start to see a different picture than what you were seeing before.

Scales do have more than one use in the scriptures

For instance Leviathan had scales that the other fish of the rivers were stuck to and we look further at scales we see them representing pride and self righteousness blinding those who have the scales or follow after those who do.......LOL ever been to to church where they are ones that are "truly saved" but most others are in trouble although even some Catholics will be in heaven? Ever wonder why fish are used to represent Christians?

Anyway...... Paul was a Pharisee back when he was called Saul and you know how Pharisees are a prideful self righteous bunch that can't see the difference between their right hand or their left......... but look what happens when Ananias lays hands on old saul "and something like scales fell from his eyes" and he was able to see.

It will be a blessing when a few more people in the church have something like scales (aka pride and self righteousness) fall from their eyes.

Scales are also used for judging things but there is only one Judge and one Law Giver........ Christians judging others good or evil but asking not be judged themselves are being a tad hypocritical.

However I just do not know about the rider holding scales other than what it seems to be doing here by weighing things out? ......... Of course we all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ and in the beginning we have all been given the same measure of faith in the form of the Holy Spirit.

Certainly if we fail to overcome sin and the person next to us does it is not God's fault that only one gets resurrected as sinless barley while the other does not when they were both given the same amount of faith to start off with........ who knows if that has anything to do with the rider of the black horse?

Blessings

Doug

S
sermonindex

Yes that's right. The bible uses a great deal of analogy. I was mistaken in that I thought they reversed the leven analogy to represent the rising/expanding of the kingdom of god.

But don't you think barley represents Christ? It correlates with the first harvest, the people had to give the wave offering to the priest to present to the LORD on there behalf like Jesus offered himself on our behalf, the priest and the offering.

Where the grain harvest is at the end, at pentacost (the wheat )

And if if yoke represents scales it doesn't change totally the analogy.Wheat was more valuable than barley so it would seem correct that a smaller amount of wheat would cost the same amount as a larger amount of barley.

Anyway am just going to research the cost of grain in that period, to see if the prices are inflated, which must be true of famine.

S
sermonindex

Hovering over this thread, lurking, and wondering when someone will admit they don't know if everything they are saying is absolutely the only way it is has caused all kinds of ideas to come up that really are not based completely on scripture has caused me to stand back and pray much before posting this.

Someone needs to wait until all the facts are in.

Several need to realize that what they think is not so cut and dried, being according to the way they see it or completely wrong.

With other things to do, this post may not even get completed right now, however you should catch the drift of what we need to do.


ALL prophecy is a revelation of and from Jesus Christ:
THE WHOLE BIBLE IS -this- REVELATION.

All prophecy is literal in it's simplest sense.
All prophecy points to something still to come beyond it's literal plain revelation.
All prophecy points to you in relation to Jesus Christ.
All prophecy has meaning hidden beyond these things.

(Now go back and read the above again, except this time switch up the word '(the) Bible' for 'prophecy' and replace the word 'prophecy' for '(the) Bible'.)

What if the Torah is actually the history of this age encapsulated, and Joshua with Judges (including Ruth) tell the beginning history of the first 1000 years of God's kingdom come on earth even as it is (already occuring) in heaven. . .and so on.

How much one learns from the Bible (aka: God's revelation to man in Jesus Christ. . .aka:prophecy) depends on how much one is willing to apply.
Many are content with the literal meaning and stop there.
Some look further for meaning towards the future after the plain literal meaning is understood.
Few want to learn of Christ Jesus to know Him in how all of it applies to them personally.
...and then there are those who want to see God in all the ways that step outside the boundaries of human(istic) rationale.

Are the ways devised by other poeple for you to learn this revelation that came to earth from outside of space and time the same way our Saviour from this very same place --outside of space and time-- did and taught?

If we might not understand what is being shown, do we immediately reject it?
That's what happened to Jesus, and that is what happens to those who speak beyond what they have been taught and told to learn.

What gives anyone the right to make value judgements before all the facts are in?

What gives anybody the right to make any value judgement at all until they have asked God, and He has both told them whether what is shown is true or not and shown from the scriptures how this is so?


This has been seen again and again elsewhere and here on SI:

There's a group of blind people standing around an elephant. One is examining the tail with their hands saying, "this is what the elephant is like. Another feels about a leg and argues with the one holding the tail knowing the tail holder is dead wrong. One is underneath feeling the belly saying i can feel more of this elephant so i surely have the best perspective to proclaim what elephant is. ther is another dealing with the tusk and somebody has hold of an ear.

All this is to say God is way to big to fit in yours or anybody elses box.

How dare the blind finite say they can figure out God when they can't even figure out themselves.

How dare this same little blind sheeple say to another, "Follow me because i am holding on to God and where He goes, i'm right because i'm with him.

Some are happy just to think God exists.
Some like it when they catch a glimpse of something from Him beyond what is happening around them.
Some think because they can apply God's answers to life problems they know Him. . .
. . .but how many remain seeking Him out further and further until they know Him even as they are known by Him?

For what it's worth, let andee finish and instead of detracting from the discussion, help out. We all need each other.

If for just once all the blind could just get together and add to this rather than detracting from we might get somewhere.

Pray before you even decide to post. Pray throught your posting. When you are ready to send it, pray and ask Him to tell you yes or no. . .

There's more but it will wait. . . "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. (Acts 20.32)

Ha, thought so,
Gotta go,
T T F N,
a a o o
h h r w

Agape,

gregg


L
Lesserlight

The barley definitely represents Christ but it also represents that those who overcome sin and become just like Him. Revelations tells us that Jesus Christ is the morning star and those who overcome as He overcame will be given the morning star that is "faith without measure"

Re.2 26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28And I will give him the morning star

Who is the morning star?........ Jesus Christ is the Morning Star!

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Try not to spend to much time looking at grain prices

Blessings

Doug

H
hmmhmm

I found great comfort in something Zac Poonen shares in his series on revelation, he says in first sermon that it says in the first verses of the book of revelation that "blessed is he that understands........." no it does not say that, it says Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

and who keep what is written in it

its not so much about trying understand all the shrowded mystery in revelation or try "decode" it, but The Lord says blessed rae those that keep what is said in it, those that DO what Jesus says, those that overcome sin, overcome fear, overcome the world, false religion etc, read the book one time trying to heed what is being said to you to keep and how to live.... it gives a fresh perspective to the book, we wrestle for hours and seek commentarys trying to understand the mysteries we miss the simple and easy things that God put there for us to live. Not to deminish the mysteries or the searching the scriptures, but i think if we start with trying to take a hold of those things, the mysteries will unveil shortly after....

S
sermonindex

Hi :)

I apologise if I caused anyone distress. The last thing I want to do is cause division. I have realized it is better for me to discuss these things privately. I am not claiming to have a phone line to God, sometimes we see pictures, and glimpses, and it comes through many things , including other peoples insights and even Wikipedia. Remember God invented everything.

S
sermonindex

"What gives anyone the right to make value judgements before all the facts are in?

What gives anybody the right to make any value judgement at all until they have asked God, and He has both told them whether what is shown is true or not and shown from the scriptures...how is this so?"..Phanetheus................................................................................................

There are perhaps thousands of commentaries written on Revelation, and of course, all of them are opinions; value judgments. Any value judgment must be made in order to evaluate. That is the nature of thought.

I think on a higher level, Gregg, you may be saying that our evaluations must be set far below the reality of the future, and the absolute perfection of God's holy Word..

It is absurd for anyone to assert our opinion , and even our revelation as KNOWING, EXCEPT THAT HIS WORD AND PROMISES ARE THAT; TRUE AND COMPLETE.

We have insight, and OPINIONS..even the most mature of us, and all the more-so when we hold our thoughts and ideas up to the brilliant light of His WORD!

In the end, the Universe does not rest in our meager, flea like minds. Time was created by God, and all the inner-work through it on Earth, and in the Heavens.

The book of Revelation is PERFECT. We view it in its exquisite perfection. Even our "revelation" of Revelation is marred somewhat by the inward corruption we yet possess. We are yet imperfect.

It is a fine thing to discuss these issues, but only within the attitude of the immense superiority of the spirit of Prophecy, and the Word of God over our insights as fallen men. We have opinions. God holds reality.

S
sermonindex

AMEN Brother Tom!

S
sermonindex

Scripture interprets Scripture.

In the case of The Revelation - we believe we are reading what 'will' happen - just as Jesus, Paul, Peter and Jude spoke of. Cross-referencing also back to the O.T. - taking every single reference to "those days" - the days before His Second Coming and allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.
One need not go back any further than 1948 to line these events together with anything written 'obviously' in symbolism - such as the "horses and horsemen". Where it's symbolism - it's 'obvious' that it is. But to make "symbolism" where GOD intended to get Literal messages across to us, is a dangerous thing to do with The Revelation - because of the warnings of "adding to or subtracting from."

The symbolism in The Revelation is not up to us to "try to figure out" without Watching The Times - watching the nations - watching technology and weapons of warfare - knowing what 4 kingdoms were involved with Israel becoming a nation. It's not all as mysterious as we think, if we "know the times" as the sons of Issachar did.

Scripture interprets Scripture and that is definitely a Divine Law and in the case of a prophetic book, this is still the case - the only addition to this particular book & Daniel's chpts 7-12 is - watching and knowing the times - as Jesus told us to do - starting with Israel's regathering.

Only the proud want to go "beyond what is written" and "add or subtract" from what Jesus said regarding the last days - "Behold, I have told you ALL things."


S
sermonindex

i have never been one to watch the times, however when these things are brought to light before me i will discern our Lord's will in this.

It's thought that the emphasis is to just note these things that are happening around us, knowing His coming is sooner and more unexpected than anyone thinks.

Jesus said when these things BEGAN to happen, that was the time we are to KEEP ON lookING up for our redemption draws near.

Watch and pray therefore means WE ARE TO BE LOOKING TO JESUS always praying, so we can be counted worthy to not experience the calamnity everyone in the world is having.

If we focus on the world around us, our attention turns from Jesus Christ to the world around us. We are to be looking up and not looking around.

In the synoptic parables of the sower and the word Jesus reveals that the first culprit choking out God's word from living and growing in us is "the cares of this world."

We cannot be looking around and looking up at the same time.


In Love
for the benefit of all,

gregg

S
sermonindex

I don't know many if any Christians that don't watch or listen to the News.

Granted, not too many look into the history of how Israel became a nation. That's sort of where it all begins though.

Christians will do all sorts of worldly things - TV - movies - certain types of outtings - time wasters - but not look into Eschatological events.

I find it impossible - now that I read Israel's history and know the WORD of GOD - that "the rich men of the earth" covet Jerusalem for their 'global leader' - who we know will be antiChrist --------------- to show no interest in these things. That would be a sign of apathy, indifference or avoidance because it's not a "pleasant" topic.

I'm not sure how anyone could hear No News in a month and hearing Any News in just a day would trigger the Words of Jesus, John, Paul, Peter or Jude.

Why would we have chpts like Rev 13 if we weren't to use our "understanding" of Current Events --- or why would we be given such a multitude of descriptions and signs in the WORD if we were not to know these signs - from OT to New?

S
sermonindex

iDear Jesus is God,

i don't read or watch the news, but sometimes i hear it.


God always tells what we need to know and do before it happens, but when our thoughts are cluttered with other things, we do not listen to Him.

Is watching and/or reading the news keeping us always looking to Jesus?

What we do indicates where our interests lie.
What we spend time doing will bring it's fruit into our lives.
(Gal. 6.7)

Listening to Moody Radio sometimes the News is heard at the top of the hour, however this News is with a Christian world perspective in mind. . .and this is a good point of prayer for the persecuted church in the 10/20 window. Still, most of the other things go ignored and forgotten.

We have recieved exceedingly magnificent highly valuable promises from God needed for all of our life concerns and living godly. From Genesis to Revelation these are all for us to be recieved with, "Yes! I believe you God so i will do this."

(God rewards those who remain in Jesus Christ and continue this focus: pusuing HIM ALONE.

How many times has the news ever taught you how to apply these promises from God to us into your life?????

The word itself is teltale acronym of what it is all about:

N orth
E ast
W est
S outh

For me at least, i insult His Spirit of grace any time i turn my attention to fix my focus away from Jesus Christ who is both Lord and King over everything that is happening.

Lookin to the
N orth
E ast
W est and
S outh
is a distraction from what God will do in us and for us when we take our eyes off of Jesus Christ.

NNobody can be looking around to the four winds and at the ssame time be "looking to Jesus, the Pioneer and Perfector of our faith."

i am hardly apathetic or indifferent.
i do avoid it because i see how it takes others attention from God onto worldly concerns.

Ya know, living and breathing for God alone often times can be far less pleasant than some stupid story about something that is not directly related to God in my life here and now (of which more than 99% of the world news is just that.

The Ancient of Days has befriended me, proving to me i am His beloved. i do not want to ever quench the Spirit He has sealed me with, whether distraction through entertainment such as the news.

We are not to look to the future except toward Jesus Christ's return.

Down through the years i have heard all kinds of dingbats say this prophecy means_______________________ and is happening right now in the world at sucha nd such a place with so and so, but just a year or two down the road (if not less, they are proven dead wrong.

Since Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy, and in Him are hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, why go to the world's rusting version of what is happening?
(Rust never sleeps and it just doesn't seem to be too smart to be meddling with rusty things lest we get more on us.

Let your life be washed by the cleansing of God's Word
and run into the fires God has designed to purify you further to be a vessel fitting unto His honor.


You say that you do not know of anybody who. . .and you are completely believed because a person is often known by the company they keep. . .
(You know. . . "birds of a feather flock together.")
. . .but are you letting others ways determine how you will then Live?

You will find
untainted blessings in Him
and no other,

gregg

S
sermonindex

Had you read my post - I don't "watch or read the news" either. Interesting reply though. Very telling.

I quote from your first reply on page 4, in closing.

Ha, thought so,
Gotta go,
T T F N,
a a o o
h h r w


Indeed, very interesting.

L
Lysa

Had you read my post - I don't "watch or read the news" either. Interesting reply though. Very telling.

On page 3 of this thread, you did reply to Andie, "...every night that I listen to the World News..."

I'm not trying to cause any trouble over this but for people that are reading this thread and not partaking of it (like me), it does seem a bit inconsistent to say two different things in the same thread, just saying...

God bless you, sister
Lisa

**edited for clarity

M
mguldner

I started reading this thread from start to finished and I have enjoyed the different prespectives on Scripture, but I must admit it seems to be getting a little off course and confusing. I really hope the thought process of this thread isn't being derailed for lack of a better word.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit(Teachable), For theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." Matthew 5:3

S
sermonindex

Lisa -
This is where "truly reading posts" becomes crucial.

I "listen" to the radio News, and posted also on the News section that I do listen. I do not "read or watch" the news.

The brother I was replying with said he "hears" the news on radio also.

btw Lisa - another thread reminded me that - in that Evangel article - toward the end of it - this same pastor was convicted within himself and he & his wife sold their larger home and another in his church followed after a while to do the same.

Back on topic - What triggered responses to this thread was this opening statement -

"I have been shown this rider is our Lord Jesus Christ."

If that view sits well with the majority here - so be it.


But there are a few of us who posted here because that interpretation doesn't fit well at all.

There's a bit of barley in Ezekiel 13 to read about.

GOD Bless the reading of His WORD.

S
sermonindex

Here is my offering on what the black horse of Revelation may be. [ Did you ever wonder why the new-agers and the "vogue" for the hip today is Black?]

THE BLACK HORSE.
In 1994 , while living in south Kansas City , and a part of KCF,[ Metro,] I had a vision. Part of it was "open", in that it was a reality; a participant was real, and alive. This being was Satan himself, as the Red Dragon. [his body upon the earth , especially in the affairs of men ; the progenitor of the religious spirit.]

It began in the living room of one of the many town houses that sprinkle the area. they are usually a living room at the door, and kitchen behind it, with a stairway that leads upward to two or three bedrooms.

There was a Christian gathering below; a fellowship happening. There were men and women relatively happy, eating finger-food, and intermingling. As I watched, I noticed the staircase leading upward to the bedrooms had a window at the turn , and there was a face looking in the window, that seemed vaguely familiar. It was the face of a man.

It drew me upwards, from curiosity, and intrigue. there was something about this face odd; different. I walked to the top turn of the stairs, and peered into the window, where I was face to face with the man.

As I watched, the face melted away, just like a wax museum face might when set near a fire. I saw the true identity of the man then. It was a living and menacing dragon, a reddish one. This being was alive, as big as a house, and the body was a perfect replica of the dragon you may see in an old St. George etching, except that it was alive. It had cunning eyes, a snout similar to a crocodile, a tail, and a reddish hue around it.

I knew that it was Satan himself, behind the window. Menacing would be the emotions I felt.

I then watched the living room below, and there appeared a black horse with a rider. It was the biggest horse I had ever seen; perhaps 15 feet tall, very, very broad and strong. upon the horse was a man; dressed in black, with a Mohawk haircut, [ sides shaved, and a strip in the middle from neck to forehead..]. His hair was jet black, and stood strait up perhaps a foot high. He was in the middle of the living room, among the fellowship of the Christians.

As I watched, he turned the horse towards the wall, and it dissipated before my eyes, and the entire world appeared before me. He then burst right into the cosmos, and rode away with great speed and power into it.

The vision ended.
Over the years, and coupled with other revelation, this is my latest idea on the Identity of this horse and rider.

The Black Horse, in it's purist form is New Age Ecumenicalism, the idea of extreme grace; that many roads lead to God, and of the one mind that Babylon expresses through religious activity.

There are very real and powerful deceiving spirits that are released through these "doctrines of devils", and they lay apart from the simple Pauline doctrines found in autonomous , grounded and the simple local church setting, with equal and plural, unprofessional shepherds.

It is indeed the one and same black horse that is ridden in Revelation, along with the other 3. It is marauding the entire Earth; it is the gospel that speaks of all religions touching God, and creates varied mechanisms that are work based to deceive men that they can attain God by performance.

It is coupled with real experience and power. It is as old as Babylon herself, where Satan first set up the global mind that would bring him worship; and ever so subtle.

After the Cross, Rome carried her torch in the name of Christ, and all of her practices; ALL OF THEM.. and her practitioners, imparted the unclean spirits of the Red Dragon. The monasteries, and the monks also, were but the seed bed to be possessed by the black horse, and they also rode upon her.

We are in the center geography of it's ride today, as we watch NEW AGE ECUMENICALISM [all roads lead to God..] emerge , even as a viable gospel message.

S
sermonindex

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2010/12/17 20:15:50

Had you read my post - I don't "watch or read the news" either. Interesting reply though. Very telling.
-------------
P:
Fellow sojourner,

Many of your posts have been read:
there are some things that can not be agreed with
from personal knowledge of scripture CURRENTLY.
For exzampl:
recalling your first post on the "Trinity" thread
stating you did not think Jesus was always the (eternal) Son of God.

Our Eternal All Mighty declares the end from the beginning, so, how could Jesus not the Son of God forever.
He i s not a man that He should lie, yet Jesus is the lamb slain BEFORE the foundation of the world ever existed.

and (this applies to many here)
through the progression of posts read
(due to prayers for many here)
...well, curiousity arises when there is SEEMING double speak and what is read those texts prompts further prayer for the members of God's family found here.


JiG:
I quote from your first reply on page 4, in closing.

Ha, thought so,
Gotta go,
T T F N,
a a o o
h h r w


Indeed, very interesting.
------------
p:
Honestly, it doesn't seem that interesting; then again, the possible etymology of "ta-ta" amused:

It came to use in the UK after Brits explored and established East African commerce with the Kiswahili. In the UK they began saying "teh tah" as a subtitute for "good-bye.":
from it's spermological Swahili origin as "mehtehtah"
morphing to simply "ta ta"
rather than saying "goodbye until we meet again."


Matt's right about being offf subject. . . just now reading down-page from this post.
OK
on subject ...

i'm sorry.

It's wondered if Doug was jokingly showing how misinterpretations can come about calling "a bar with a ring at each end" comparable to fish "scales,"
or if he was serious.

Until all the facts seem to be in, and the piecing of everything together from this perspective is made, comments will be kept unsaid.

TTFN,
g


S
sermonindex

I was refering to your last post as being "interesting & telling"

Jesus is the Eternal Logos. It's important to not leave that part out of that post regarding our Triune GOD.

What is wrong with this thread is that it hasn't stayed consisent, as well.

First it was said that - "I have been shown this rider is our Lord Jesus Christ."

and then the same poster wrote - "We are the wheat and Christ is the barley."


With the warnings in The Revelation about adding or subtracting from that Book - how could we cheer this on? - as seen on page 1's first reply?


Personally, this type playing with The WORD, I find frightening and finding "barley" in Ezekiel 13 seems appropriate on this thread.


One would do better to not imply "The LORD showed me"

L
Lysa


Andie,

I encourage you to keep posting and ignoring the ones who disagree with you. If you feel this is from the Lord, then you go with the Lord... ALWAYS.

Please continue your thread!

God bless you,
Lisa

S
sermonindex


There are times when I would love to speak privately - to answer questions through PMs but, whatever changed my settings - I now 'can' get a reply window to open, thanks to someone's help, but there is no cursor in that window. No way to type into it.... 'Oy Vey' is right!

The Peace that PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING REIGNS!

Thank you!

S
sermonindex

So be it!

S
sermonindex

Hi everyone,

I know I keep saying this is my last post, but you guys keep posting I feel I need to clarify things.

When I said God has shown me the rider is Jesus Christ, I meant that I have been reading the word of God and I recognized it, an insight or opening up of the scriptures really. I still believe that image is correct, some of the details I got wrong, which is why I said I would only discuss it further in private because it feels unsafe for me here.

I thought this was a place to discuss the scriptures. But I felt like some of you were firing random passages of scripture at me like a weapon, while closing your ears and eyes.

I have never claimed to be a prophet. I understand in the old testament the prophets were visited by angels so received direct testimony. I believe there was someone here who received direct testimony? and revealed some things, and said they couldn't reveal everything right now.

I have continued to study this passage and thank you to those who have helped clarify a few things for me, even those who did so by accident as they were trying to condemn me.

I am continuing to study this passage, and if anyone is interested I can send them what I find next year (have a busy month or 2 coming up now). I would welcome any insights and feedback. Just pm me.

Could this perhaps be locked, I wish in a way that I had never started it, apart from the fact that I have gained more understand by some of you.

S
sermonindex

Andie: I appreciate your opinion. In the New Testament, prophecy is and always must, and is COMMANDED to be judged. It is never given as the absolute word of God; it is never controlling, or owned by a person or group.

You believe that the rider is Jesus.[ see BT below, and vision..] I believe the rider is a NEW Age spirit of Ecumenicism, and others have ideas also. Are you 100% sure? and if you are, are you angry that people may question your conclusions, or disagree with you?

This must be; that other Christians, like the Bereans, are allowed room in their spirit to weigh truth. This is necessary to possess freedom, and not Dogma...................................BT

Acts 17: 10-12

“And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews."

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed..."

These lessons have to do with our attitude toward God’s word and his ministers; our discipline in the reading of God’s word;

our willingness to acknowledge the truth when shown from the word of God; our willingness to be a discerning Christian,

and our willingness to share the truth of God with others in order that they might be saved. So the question we need to ask ourselves is; how can I become a Berean Christian?

That is: What can I glean from this account of the Bereans that clearly demonstrates the mark a true follower of the Lord Jesus Christ? There would be less deception in the church if everyone who names the name of Christ would become Berean Christians.

There would be more converts to the faith if more people would examine the claims of the Holy Bible with an open heart.
truthcontinuum.tripod.com................................

On this forum, especially, you will be confronted with other ideas and opinions..for sure...and when it comes to the future, and the prophecies and Revelation...well they are the most prone to speculation, for they are vastly symbolic and filled with types. Expect EVERYONE to see it differently than you..that's OK.

Everyone is allowed their ideas here, brought forth in a respectful manner and a degree of Godly humility. Please don't be offended, and I am , for one, interested in this particular passage.
Thank you Andie.

S
sermonindex

Hi Tom,

I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is about repenting and believing, and turning back to God, and following his command to love God and love your neigbour as yourself.

Anything else is secondary to this, but this section is after all for discussing scripture and doctrine, wrestling with what God is showing us about our fall in the garden, how he redeemed us, and how this is going to lead to the new heaven and earth.

I have no problem with others disagreeing with me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do have a problem with people posting without even considering what I wrote. Discussion is about listening, carefully weighing up what has been offered, then responding in light of this.

It goes back and forth until you perhaps reach an agreement, perhaps not. But agreeing to disagree with brotherly love because you know it is secondary to the gospel, in which we are instructed to love each other.

If someone does not feel led to carefully consider what someone has said, perhaps they might consider not joining the discussion. This also is up to each person, but being a Christian forum it may be something to consider.

I think also today in the internet age it can be difficult to discern what is "discussion" and what is "teaching". I am a new christian and when I read that passage in revelation I just put it out there for discussion, and came across perhaps as a bit all knowing, which God quickly showed me I was not. But anyway I will follow God leading to study this passage in more detail.


L
Lysa

Andie72 wrote:
If someone does not feel led to carefully consider what someone has said, perhaps they might consider not joining the discussion.

What??? Wait... hold on (drying my eyes from laughing); oh goodness, I’ve got to pick myself up off the floor from that one!!!

I’m not laughing at you Andie but at how astutely you have assessed how we do things here on SI... well, some of us anyway!!! I am very guilty of this... of reading someone’s first paragraph and then going off on a supposed (godly) tangent; but IF ONLY I had read to the end, I might have seen what the person was trying to say. (I know, right?!!)

On a serious note though, I am learning something about “moi”.... that if I have a knee jerk reaction to the first sentence or paragraph, I need to read the entire post and THEN pray about what the writer was trying to say because obviously, “my” personal beliefs about the topic have gotten in the way and I need to reread again and maybe again.

I don’t think we should pray ‘before’ we post; the time to be praying needs to be when we are first reading what the offending poster has written (having a desire to understand) because if we don’t desire to understand one another, we read in our own ‘godliness’ which is the flesh and it’s way too late, the “Submit” button has been clicked on! Just saying...

God bless you, Andie

Lisa

L
Lysa

PS: I've NOT studied the festivals so I do not understand anything about them but I did read Rev 5 and 6 today; yes, the Lamb opens the seals but then it reads like John is seeing a vision somehow of future events (so then it could be Christ riding a few of those horses because technically all the seals could NOT have already been opened at the time John saw them (?), we are all still here. It might not be anything, but it’s something to think about (for me anyway).

I’m sorry if I am clear on this, it was just running through my head as I posted the other.

Lisa

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
Archived
1 of 55 posts

Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.

Donate