Jesus

Perhaps you went too fast.

"Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." (Luke 18:17)

This is the point we must start at with Jesus.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:27-31)

No, fastest is not necessarily the best. Do you see that in scripture? I honestly don't.

38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. (Luke 10:38-42)

I'm going to end with this true account of Joseph, a missionary from Gospel For Asia. He left his factory job to spread the gospel in a remote place in India. The people didn't like him, he carried gospel tracts on his head and when he was tired, he dragged it to bring the tracts to the people. He fasted, prayed etc. He didn't get a single convert. For at least 2 years this continued. Finally he cried out to God to send him to another place--anywhere but here. And God told him why would he go anywhere else when He placed him in that place. Finally he reached out to the kids and slowly the parents came asking wanting to know more about Jesus etc whom the kids sang about. Then only did he managed to get his converts. I do not know how many years it took, I only know it took more than 2 years. God is going to test us and test us and refine and refine us. At the end of the day, only those that persevere will make it. It doesn't mean that we don't make any mistakes or sin, it just means that we persevere and cling onto Jesus till the end. Its a choice that we have to make. Go and find a job to feed your physical self and continue to seek God to feed your spiritual self.

man, i was just going to quit, right here. I don't know why THIS GOD KEEPS MESSING WITH OUR HEADS. It seems like this "refining' is all an ego trip. He's telling us to go all in with 72 offsuit with every hand last we have, not once or twice but every single time.

What about relationships? I'm not suppose to get married? Is a wife gonna magically appear? It's not like I can't do it myself. Trust me, I really can find a nice girl to give me companionship but it doesn't seem like God wants to do anything. He just wants me to seek him, even with the job, he doesn't say a word and I read the bible almost everyday. After I'm done, I just get more confused.

At this point, I really don't care if I get married or not. Of course, I'd like to but the WORST Part of all this is not the suffering BUT IT'S THE SILENCE. He doesn't say anything at all. It's like I'm talking to a wall. damn it.

Seriously, if God told me, you will suffer for 4 years and this will happen. I would not like the suffering but I could cope with it. It sure beats this. Right now He doesn't say a WORD. NOTHING NADA.

How am I going to keep going when I don't hear crap. I WANT TO DIE.

". . .it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. . ." (Heb. 9.27)

codek,

Speaking from experience, this is normal.

When i stepped back and examined myself in the throes of dispair, i saw that all the things i thought i was doing for God, it was seen that this was just not the case. i was doing everything just the same with only a different venue.

I. . .did this
I. . .did that
and then, because God does not respond through MY EFFORTS
I WILL. . .do whatever seems best.

Look to Jesus example and see if you measure up:
Why did He do what He did?
How did He go about doing what He did?

The course i was following is clearly spelled out from Rom. 1.18 to Rom. 2.2.

The end result is spelled out from Rom. 2.3 to 2.11.

The choice is yours, and you have already done those things you say you will go back to.

Is that way better?
What is the end result.

Quit looking for YOUR satisfaction and learn what really pleases God.

Sermons or your own efforts or any book besides the scriptures themselves is not what God's word tells us to do.

In Matthew 4.4, Jesus said, "Man shall...live by...EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

Focus on relating with God on His terms.

Prayer is sadly lacking in your life, and when you do pray, you are using it as a means to establish yourself instead of simply communing with God.

Thanksgiving and praise is to be continually on our lips. If you can't think of anything, start with thanking Him He let you be born in the first place, then proceed from there. . .like just the fact that you are still breathing right now. . .and so on.

As well, ingrain yourself in the scriptures and the barren sensations will leave if you persist. This one activity alone will train you into what God's best purpose for you really is. To the extent of your familiarity with God's Word, even so your relationship with Him and knowledge of Him will be.

Towards prayer, personalize the Psalms so that you are speaking to God through them.
(Psalm 42 might be a good start; and then Psalm 143?)

Towards learning His Word, from John, go through Mark, then Luke, then Matthew. . .repeat again and again and. . .

Forget what you think is right to do and follow in Jesus' footsteps.

Quit acting like a servant and learn friendship with God so you can come to understand that Jesus is your brother, not some distant phantasy.

Finally, whoever has read this far,
follow me in this:
supplicate with Him
then interceed for this one person:
codek, who has rejoined us.

God's bounty to everyone
fixed faithfully in Him,

g

p.s. Our life is but a vapor: like the flowers of the field that are here one day then cast into the oven.

The Word of God lives and abides forever. Remain in Him.
(See John 14.1 - 16.16)

FEAR GOD AND RUN FROM EVIL.
Keep yourself from idols.

ADDENDUM:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36763&forum=34

THANKS SHERI!

edited: ADDENDUM

...Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation. The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places...
(Habakkuk 3.17-19)

Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, "Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up? Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?"

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king,
"O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king; but if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."
(Daniel 3.14-18)

One thing I would say is that if you don't have mercy on others then that can be a sign that you have not been shown mercy. It is a very dangerous thing our self-effort to try and do everything we think will please God. God wants us to give us and simply let His grace rule our lifes and therefore we will never be able to judge others in our heart and look to them as Jesus sees them.

I encourage you also to watch this video about struggling with sin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrlPP8s3_o

You will say that you already did this, giving yourself to God. I have read your list of all the things you did, but your words tell me that while you have given much and tried very hard, your heart is not fully surrendered to God.

Thank you for your post. Well, I agree with you that something is missing. But all the works I did was an outpouring of my heart. By no means was I trying to win favor with God through my action but it was the only way I know to get to know God.

And yes I am rebelling because He has failed me and been an absentee father, just like my earthly father.

I DO NOT TRUST GOD. I have tried many times and looked like a moron. I can't just trust God right now. I don't trust anyone right one. Everything I believed in has let me down.

No, fastest is not necessarily the best. Do you see that in scripture? I honestly don't....and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. (Luke 10:38-42)

I don't have any examples from scripture but if God is telling you to do something. You need to go ahead and do it?
I'm not understanding you. I just did what God told me to do.

I have moved this thread to the "testimony and prayer section".

May God grant you this grace as you cease from your dead works and put all your trust in the life and death of Christ!

I lost my job and was unemployed for a year and a half. It was quite depressing and it seemed like I had time to dwell on things. I sought God for future ministry, but some of them just stopped. What was God trying to teach me? Soon some lessons were learned and God came through with new opportunities. I praise Him because He never fails.

Yes, I realize that that is the reason why I lost my job so I can spend time with Him. If everything was going well, I would have NEVER came back to God. Why would anyone?

Brother, please forgive me if someone else has already asked you this, I have not had time to read the whole thread, but have you been in regular fellowship with other firmly established brothers with Godly character?

no, i'm surrounded by sunday christians. good people but they don't have a clue.

Read also Palm 118 Codex. That is my favourite.

Don't give up. I know what it's like to want to die. Life can seem overwhelming at times. I would encourage you to speak to an elder or paster at the church about how you are feeling, and perhaps also a Doctor.

Codek: I've thoroughly read all of your posts here, and responses. which have been good, and with much wisdom. I wanted to add my ideas into the bowl, for "In a multitude of counsellors, there is Wisdom."

I know that you have repented from "dead works", and have done your best to discover God. This is good, but the obvious tenor of your cry is that it has been futile, unproductive.....in spite of intense and rigorous devotions to the cause.

However, could it be that your inward heart intentions in this entire journey is that your inward intentions are what God can do for You?

One of the best deceptions of Satan is that God exists for man; To fulfill him, to enhance his experience on Earth, to bless him, with Health, Happiness and Prosperity. This, codek, is a collosal lie; a morbid deception.

God does not exist to "bless" you according to your terms, at all. Usually, when man has these things you have written about that you desire....prosperity, happiness, health, and a wife, with a successful life..[opposite from a loser..]it entails all the world has to offer. It is the love of the world, though it doesn't seem that way, of course.

Jesus said that we are prone to make IDOLS out of these things; yes, even and especially the success of our own life here on the Earth, including those that we love in family, and above all, ME!

John 6

25. Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,

26..." If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes,
!! and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.!!

27 !!And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple!"!!

Your post has proved what you REALLY are interested in...being a success in this world and your life, and you figured that in returning to Jesus, he would readily accommodate you. He will not.

His desire for you is quite the opposite. He desires that you diminish, and experientially DIE to yourself, so that He can live through you, while you learn to LOVE HIM with all of your heart, RATHER than you own success and happiness. It is by faith.

This life is about sonship. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

You are in a precarious place, codek. I have seen many FALL AWAY from the living God at the crossroads you are at. They simply throw down their cross, and pick up their flesh life...which also manifests in the ambitious halls of religion, by the way.

"Unless you eat My flesh and DRINK My blood, you have no life in you.!"..Jesus

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

In the end , codek, Jesus wants to possess you, not bless you. As one brother said, learn what it means to worship Him, even if He slays you...[...Job..One of the most awesome truths in the entire Bible..] Beg Him to reveal Himself to you, and lay down, if you can, all these selfish ambitions of success and happiness. He responds to faith to be a son, not our desires for a better life for ourselves.

One of the best deceptions of Satan is that God exists for man; To fulfill him, to enhance his experience on Earth, to bless him, with Health, Happiness and Prosperity. This, codek, is a collosal lie; a morbid deception. God does not exist to "bless" you according to your terms, at all. Usually, when man has these things you have written about that you desire....prosperity, happiness, health, and a wife, with a successful life..[opposite from a loser..]it entails all the world has to offer. It is the love of the world, though it doesn't seem that way, of course. Jesus said that we are prone to make IDOLS out of these things; yes, even and especially the success of our own life here on the Earth, including those that we love in family, and above all, ME!

Right, that's called humanism as in the Ten Shekels sermon by Reidhead. I don't want prosperity or anything of that sort. But since we are human, I guess we want basic things, right? I mean you can go too far after listening to Ten Shekels and give up literally everything you have and die of starvation a week later. Because after listening to the sermon, I thought

Chrisitianity is only about suffering.

But after looking at the lives of many bible characters, there was suffering but there was blessing and love from God. Look at David, for example. So there is a danger in saying that God is a militant dictator who only wants us to suffer. I'm trying to find the balance. Sometimes God will make you suffer but sometimes He will provide. If we were to suffer all the time, no christian would ever get married, christians would die from giving away everything, and christians would never be allowed to be blessed. And I think it's humanly impossible to do that. Believe me, I tried.

I was tempted to tithe my whole unemployment paycheck because I felt God wanted me to rid myself of all idols. I prayed and discerned, I was doing way too much.

Trust me, I'm not a prosperity gospel type of person. But if you still see these traits, please elaborate as I'm only interested in seeking the truth.

I'm only an average man trying to seek God in this crazy, deceitful, competitive world.

But I do see your point and I like to discuss further.

Your post has proved what you REALLY are interested in...being a success in this world and your life, and you figured that in returning to Jesus, he would readily accommodate you. He will not.

Nope, I disagree but I'm interested to see how you came to that conclusion.

I just don't like getting beat up everyday without being told why or anything. If God told me, you will get stricken with this disease and die in 5 years, I would not like it but I'd eventually be ok with it.

It's the silence and not knowing what will happen next that is killing me.

It's feeling that God is just playing mind games with me when my life is at stake that is killing me like this is all a joke to Him. And that He will not come through with any promises, even salvation.

I HAVE NO PEACE.

It's hard for me to trust God right now but He wants me to go all in. He demands it. And I don't see any love in that.

To be honest, sometimes, he seems like a malicious dictator on a huge ego trip.

I suffer Brothertom, more than anyone I know. They say I'm nice, really modest, and too caring to a fault.

I'm stupid nice for Jesus. And that's how I get burned all the time and that's where my desperation for God comes from.

John 6 25. Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26..." If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, !! and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.!! 27 !!And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple!"!!

I'm so all or nothing that when I read this passage, I literally expect everyone in my family to desert me. I'm very intense and harsh.

Don't we have to take into account who Jesus was saying this to. I think he was saying this to hypocrites or pharisees who were obviously using religion as a means for something else. They were fake. I don't think Jesus was saying this to transparent people who really seek God and are genuinely confused and frustrated.

Bro Codek

Do you feel like this song:

Shadows are falling and I’ve been here all day
It’s too hot to sleep, time is running away
Feel like my soul has turned into steel
I’ve still got the scars that the sun didn’t heal
There’s not even room enough to be anywhere
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there

Well, my sense of humanity has gone down the drain
Behind every beautiful thing there’s been some kind of pain
She wrote me a letter and she wrote it so kind
She put down in writing what was in her mind
I just don’t see why I should even care
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there

Well, I’ve been to London and I’ve been to gay Paree
I’ve followed the river and I got to the sea
I’ve been down on the bottom of a world full of lies
I ain’t looking for nothing in anyone’s eyes
Sometimes my burden seems more than I can bear
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there

I was born here and I’ll die here against my will
I know it looks like I’m moving, but I’m standing still
Every nerve in my body is so vacant and numb
I can’t even remember what it was I came here to get away from
Don’t even hear a murmur of a prayer
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there

In the end , codek, Jesus wants to possess you, not bless you. As one brother said, learn what it means to worship Him, even if He slays you...[...Job..One of the most awesome truths in the entire Bible..] Beg Him to reveal Himself to you, and lay down, if you can, all these selfish ambitions of success and happiness. He responds to faith to be a son, not our desires for a better life for ourselves.

I don't ultimately want a better life.

I want to know him first and foremost(although my flesh hates it, it's a constant battle)

I rather have a mansion in heaven than on earth anyday.

I wish I wouldn't suffer as much that's all. If He could just let me have some peace instead of everything in my life going downhill.

Dear sister,

I've heard this before, and it concerns me whenever I see it removed from its roots in Romans 6.

The idea was that God's grace is so powerful, it finally defeats sin altogether.

To codek,

What I mean is, that the context of grace abounding, is AFTER we have accepted that MY 'old man' has been crucified with Christ and 'I' AM dead in Him by the operation of the Spirit (Heb 10:14), as much as 'I' am alive in Him, yet not 'me', but Christ, who lives in me.

By this 'I' am constantly reckoning 'my' 'self' dead to sin, and to the world. In Young's Literal Translation, he uses 'disown' instead of 'deny'. It is a place of isolation from everything except Him. As Peter puts it, we are 'escaped, from the corruption of the world through lust'.

There are no prizes for obedience in this life, except God's general benevolence to humankind, within which believers find a surer supply of their needs. (We don't DESERVE anything, I mean.) We would die forever when our last breath leaves us, except we have believed in Christ to be our Advocate before our Father, that we may be found IN HIM, without spot or wrinkle, to be raised from death into immortality. The 'prize' is ETERNAL life.

The idea that grace automatically erases all sin so that we are left without the responsibility to allow God to kill our wicked Satanic nature, is extreme grace, and without merit. It is another gospel, I'm afraid.

Our life in the Spirit is a WALK, not an event.

13."For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify [kill] the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
14."For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."..[Rom.8]

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

Unless we learn the reality of living and walking in the Spirit, we are cemented into a false faith, where there is no true peace and life.

When we are truly born again, regenerated from Heaven, we will surely know it, and things become clear; Most of all, the clarity of the wicked nature we possess, and the ongoing goodness of God that also dwells within us, and on a THRONE.

Here is the testimony of a true minister of the gospel, and what I believe to be the pattern of all that real holy Spirit ministry IS.

"We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.

For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.

So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you."

"Marvel not that I say unto you, you MUST be born again."...... JESUS

The idea that grace automatically erases all sin so that we are left without the responsibility to allow God to kill our wicked Satanic nature, is extreme grace, and without merit. It is another gospel, I'm afraid. Our life in the Spirit is a WALK, not an event. 13."For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify [kill] the deeds of the body, ye shall live." 14."For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."..[Rom.8] "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Unless we learn the reality of living and walking in the Spirit, we are cemented into a false faith, where there is no true peace and life. When we are truly born again, regenerated from Heaven, we will surely know it, and things become clear; Most of all, the clarity of the wicked nature we possess, and the ongoing goodness of God that also dwells within us, and on a THRONE. Here is the testimony of a true minister of the gospel, and what I believe to be the pattern of all that real holy Spirit ministry IS. "We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you." "Marvel not that I say unto you, you MUST be born again."...... JESUS

I read this 10x and I still don't get it. I'm not trying to belittle you but to me it's just verses and it's not making sense. Can you dumb it down?

Brother Codek, I agree with DesertRose that you mentioned “I” in the thing that you did “for” Him and well, that’s just not a good sign. I’m just going to be blunt, people can think I’m intense and harsh too, so please don’t be upset with my bluntness.... I’ve not read all your responses but I was wondering if you have humbled yourself and repented for hearing God wrong and THEN blaming Him because of it? Let me explain, I do not know that you heard God wrong but if there is any blame whatsoever to place on anyone, I do believe that I would begin with myself first instead of God, blame my ears and understanding instead of Him. That would be a good place to start, admitting that you might have been wrong. We all have been wrong before! I know I have! God bless you, Codek Lisa

Not to sound crass but what else can we put instead of I? I've been waiting on God and He hasn't appeared. This is a relationship remember? Both He and I have to show up? I didn't use 17 I's to sound arrogant.

God is really missing in my life, through and through. that's it. It's like Job, Joseph.

I'm not an arrogant complainer.

been there, done that. First person I blamed is myself and then nothing happens so the blame shifts to people who have power in my life. I blamed myself too much. I first put the blame on myself, first. always.

I prayed to God to forgive my rebellion and nothing happened.

don't worry about the harshness.

Hi codek,

This is a brief reply to your posts since my last.

I hear that you blamed yourself first. It sounds right. But what does that mean in practice for a Christian? It means that JESUS died for your sins. You are free, if you honestly repented from your heart AND received His forgiveness by faith. You need to let HIM off the hook.

Regarding the 'I' question, you are supposed to be dead in Christ. This deals with the fact we are all sinners. You are now free to THANK HIM, and REJOICE in Him for so great a salvation! Just DO IT!!!

We don't know how long Jesus waited in the grave to be raised from the dead but we do know He was alive by the fourth day. Bearing this in mind, it is matter of faith to trust that you will be raised from whatever aspect of death you are embracing consciously with regard to the details of God's dealings with you at this time.

It seems to me you are trying to hold Him ransom for not showing up according to YOUR schedule. I would ask if you believe He's alive? If you do, then He can show up whenever He's ready, and until then, you have to keep trusting Him, keep walking by faith (not sight), and keep rejoicing in the exceeding great salvation into which His Life brings you, whether you feel it, or feel LIKE it, or not.

In my life, I had to go through several years of thanking and praising Him, when practically it was at least as complicated as your life seems to be. God didn't leave me. He gave me many assurances of His presence.

Perhaps the most assurance was the last verse which He had minsitered to my heart before everything went dark. It was

Psalm 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light [are] both alike [to thee].

Whenever I prayed, I 'saw' (by faith)in the Spirit, that HE could SEE ... MY way ahead - just as if it was as clear to me. All I had to do was keep following the light (the little slivers which shone through the blackness from time to time), and I would find He had brought me to a broader place.

I am sure you've had some slivers of light in this thread. Have you thanked Him for them? Have you obeyed? If you haven't obeyed, He is unlikely to show you the next step. Why should He?

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

I don't think you're going through anything which is not common to Christians whom God wishes to bring into a greater trust of Himself.

This trust is not about what we get out of it, but what He gets out of it (which partly is Lysa's point). The fact is that until God can trust us completely, He can't use us completely.

Oswald Chambers speaks a lot to this in My Utmost for His Highest. Recently Greg Gordon posted The Test of Loyalty.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36593&forum=45&0

What do you make of it in relation to your situation?

Words of wisdom as usual. You have such a talent for this.

I hear that you blamed yourself first. It sounds right. But what does that mean in practice for a Christian? It means that JESUS died for your sins. You are free, if you honestly repented from your heart AND received His forgiveness by faith. You need to let HIM off the hook.

I am trying to do that but it seems like too much is being expected out of me. It's not normal christian type faith, it's closer to Brother Yun type faith. And God's track record in my life has been horrible in my life. It seems crazy that he wants me to take the leap with all the crap that has happened in my life.

I tend to disagree with IHOP but I went to get prophesied by them just to figure things out. And it was truth, I don't know whether it's the good spirits or bad spirits at work. But God can use a donkey or even satanists to do his work.

They said unlike all others, "I actually stand up for the truth and DO the things He asks" I'm not trying to toot my horn but that's exactly it. They were right.

But giving up that much and having nothing to show for it really takes it's toll. I don't know how much I have left.

You can have only so much faith in anything until it runs out. And right now, I'm not sure I have to have perfect faith. I've gone way and beyond what is average. Even to the point of people saying "they feel sorry for me". They think I'm a nice, idiot loser and feel bad about it

So now you are keeping a scorecard? "Having nothing left to show for it," how about your life? You don't have the slightest idea of what it is like to have nothing left to show for it. How about God's wonderful Providence that does not have you laid out flat, paralyzed from the neck down? How about the fact that you were born into this Country, which as of yet still allows you the freedom to seek God as you wish? You have the ability to type and post on the Internet. Apparently you have free time to brood and feel sorry for yourself. You are not having to comb the streets picking up soda cans for redemption fees just to eat. The more you post the more you sound like a spoiled, selfish child. Step away from yourself and do something for others less fortunate than you (of which there are many). It will take your mind off of yourself and that big letter 'I.' If you manage to lose yourself in caring for others you may be able to hear God when he speaks to you. Do not think God never leaves us - we move away from Him. You can change the direction you are going and move back to Him.

You can have only so much faith in anything until it runs out. And right now, I'm not sure I have to have perfect faith. I've gone way and beyond what is average.

The Faith you have is not anything of your own making, God gives it to you. You only have to ask, believing, and He will give it to you. You are claiming to have gone beyond average on something that is not your right to claim. That is the root of your problem. The more you feel you have a sympathetic audience the weepier you become. Just stop it. You have received many excellent words of advice from many members of this forum. Put them in a hat and pull out one piece of advice and try it. You are not going to receive 'proof' from God, you already have and you don't recognize it.

thank you. I needed this tough love. I am encouraged by your post. You definitely are right, I am getting too whiney and feel so sorry for myself and it's getting annoying. I will change that.

although i myself have to say my complaining is complaining that we all go through.

part of why I share about my life so openly is because I want others who may not be able to share as openly as i do to learn of the struggles of others like them.

I don't really want to share because this is the internet and who knows who is reading this.

In high school, I thought I was the only one dealing with lust. I was so ashamed and it killed me inside. If someone else shared that this struggle is a common struggle, it would not have been so hard.

It is not just complaining and sounding like a moron.

I'm not enjoying this. I'm being a fool so you don't have to.

Reading all the posts in this thread, I sense this. There is certainly 1 thing that you are not doing right by God and maybe this is the one thing that God is trying to get through to you. "Be willing to wait on Him, not knowing how long it will take before you Hear from Him." That's the thing that is crying out in your posts. You are willing to suffer for him, you are willing to be stupid nice, not work etc BUT it comes with a condition--that you know how long it will take before you hear from him or that you hear from him 'constantly/sometimes' so that you know you belong to him or have some sort of assurance that he knows you. Isn't that's what its all about? If you were to hear from him, this constant refining, dictator and others that you hate currently, you won't mind then, right. You then won't mind about persevering to the end then, right. You won't wrestle with the 'do not trust' 'he has fail you completely' issues right. Pls let us know if indeed this is the main issue. Because I'm pretty sure that this is it and if so, the posts by some others to you need to be different to address your issue. What you need then is help on how to give this 'fear of not knowing' to the Lord. It will not be how much forgiveness you need to ask from the Lord, or doing things for the Lord or obeying Him in all things. Pls let us know.

exactly. thank you. I didn't know exactly when i first wrote it but it's because I don't trust God. That's why I want a time frame.

If I could really trust Him, nothing would be impossible, no?

Trust issues comes from not having a father growing up. he only returned when I was 25 to use us.

Disclaimer

Again, I'm not saying this to sound sappy but I need to be as honest as possible. Some things I am still withholding because it's the internet.

I want people struggling with what I'm struggling to read this and help themselves. If again I sound like a whiney child, you are welcomed to rebuke me.

All I promise is to be raw as possible. Of course I can write in a more mature manner but I need others to know exactly what these struggles are like.

Not a nice prim and proper sounding version where God came in like clockwork to save the day at 7:45pm on a warm Wednesday night.

And please be as honest as possible

Do not think God never leaves us - we move away from Him. You can change the direction you are going and move back to Him.

This can such a cliche statement so I want to clarify. So if I'm seeking him by doing all these things, I'm still moving away from him because of what?

Codek, Well, I'm going to be honest here too. When I first saw this thread, I was wondering whether it was fake. Later on, I started believing it but as the thread wore on, something didn't seem right base on your responses and which post you responded/not responded to. The only way that it could make sense completely was based on my previous post of you wanting a 'timeline'--that condition. But after seeing your reply to White Stone, something feels really fake/wrong here and I can't help you further. But I decided to withheld this latest post to see whether and if so how you would answer my post. Maybe its like what you said in your disclaimer. After reading your disclaimer, maybe what you are writing is an amalgam of yours and others problems. I don't know. Its up to you how much you want to reveal. Others may be able to help you and/or others but I will refrain. Wish you all the best and that you will get the answer/help you need. If I'm wrong, pls forgive me.

wow

I'm not fake. The stuff I wrote about it is not fake. 100% happened to me. I'm not posting the details of the events because this is the internet and for the sake of brevity. Then I would really be accused of trying to get attention.

My disclaimer relates to the fact that everyone goes through this type of suffering. I want to help those people also because rarely are people 100% honest in their sufferings.

Do not take this the wrong way but I have better things to do than get attention on a christian forum from people I don't know personally. That would be pointless.

What exactly are you asking again?

Also, Checking this thread takes time a lot of time. Time is precious to me now.

Thanks for chiming in but I don't know what just happened. Do what your gut instinct tells you to do.

Codex,

Just to clarify are you having trouble believing God exists, or is it more you believe he exists but he is not trustworthy?

Codex, Just to clarify are you having trouble believing God exists, or is it more you believe he exists but he is not trustworthy?

You can say it's a crisis of faith. It's everything. You wouldn't believe what's going on in my head.

I can't trust God first and foremost.. I just don't understand why he would put me through this amount of suffering. Why me? Why can't I just believe? Why am I acting like a moron on sermonindex to find out this truth? And then if you can't trust God then you start wondering if Christianity is real? then it goes further sometimes to if Christianity doesn't work, then God doesn't exist.

It's all over the place. I'm a mess. Really hot and cold.

And some drama happened at church this week and I got in a fight with a friend there and it just gets so crazy and although I'm not sure how much he really knows God. He is somewhat spiritually aware but he would think that everyone here is too extreme about Christianity. But God has been showing whispers between conversations between Him and I. And he is beginning to wake up but overall, he thinks I'm too extreme and he wants to me to focus on getting my life back and I don't know if God really wants that.

bottomline is i don't know.

How did God reveal to you that you should not work or get married?

How did God reveal to you that you should not work or get married?

i guess he was speaking to me. it's like a gut instinct. It felt like he wanted me to rely on him. like he was asking " do you trust me". but the main question was "how much do you trust me?" which i felt was harsh. this pertains to going off blood pressure meds and the job but not marriage. but most likely all of us will get married and i lust for women like any red blooded man so i'm thinking i should get married like everyone else i guess.

i never hear god audibly. sometimes you read scripture to get answers but very rarely. I don't know the bible well enough.

I got this in a pm from another brother who knows what suffering is like and when God is silent.

"A few weeks ago God gave me a revelation of Himself. I realized His awesomeness. I realized that if he never healed me, never allowed me to work again, never did 1 more thing for me in life, that He is still God, still perfect, holy, just, awesome, magnificent, wonderful, gracious, merciful etc. Nothing changes that. It is a fact. And I realized that a peace filled me! Now that I realize God owes me nothing, I don't deserve a thing, I feel like I'm in a position to receive from the LORD."

I think that sums it up. It is so hard to grasp but it feels right. you're gut is never wrong.

I will pray for you Codex.

I will pray for you Codex.

thank you. you know what. something is working. I don't think i'm saved. But for the first time ever, i feel God drawing me to him.

All this time i tried to seek him and find him because i was scared of hell and I feared the lord. That's why i went ballistic this year but the first time i feel a peace in my heart.

And i can understand a little bit about what it means to know christ and feel his love and that he is all that we need. Even if God doesn't answer any of my prayers as long as he is here, that is all that i need. Am i being regenerated? I don't know. but something is happening and no god hasn't found me a wife, job, fixed me or anything but i think i might have found him, the true treasure.

you don't draw him, he draws you. he allows you to be saved, crazy.

"Thank you. you know what. something is working. I don't think i'm saved. But for the first time ever, i feel God drawing me to him."...codek

Earlier I..[Brothertom..] posted the below....and you wrote that you had read it 10x, and still didn't get it. I want to rejoice at your last post, in hope that the Lord is instilling faith by His Spirit in you.....and you are born again.

This post was about that; the flesh and the spirit. Maybe it makes more sense now? If you are aware that you are not saved, and need God, and believe that Jesus, and His shed blood are the only way, it is the DOOR that Jesus spoke of to enter HEAVEN!

It is the prerequisite to Salvation for everyone who enters into His Kingdom!
...........Here is the post......

"The idea that grace automatically erases all sin so that we are left without the responsibility to allow God to kill our wicked Satanic nature, is extreme grace, and without merit. It is another gospel, I'm afraid.

Our life in the Spirit is a WALK, not an event.

13."For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify [kill] the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
14."For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."..[Rom.8]

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

Unless we learn the reality of living and walking in the Spirit, we are cemented into a false faith, where there is no true peace and life.

When we are truly born again, regenerated from Heaven, we will surely know it, and things become clear; Most of all, the clarity of the wicked nature we possess, and the ongoing goodness of God that also dwells within us, and on a THRONE.

Here is the testimony of a true minister of the gospel, and what I believe to be the pattern of all that real holy Spirit ministry IS.

"We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.

For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.

So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you."

"Marvel not that I say unto you, you MUST be born again."...... JESUS ..........

http://antipsychiatry.org/

I don't agree with your diagnosis Sir nor do I believe you are in any position to diagnose anyone here nor suggest any drugs.

I have my own opinions about this topic, but I've have felt from day one of this thread to stay off of it and keep my feelings to myself - but this is no place to come off with diagnosising anyone - or recommending DANGEROUS DRUGS.
Yes, they are extremely dangerous. "pharmakeia" is a last days epidemic and not based on 'true' science nor does it consider each human being's differing make-up or chemistry.
I counseled on a psychiatric support forum and the vast majority of psychiatrists now-a-days don't even do psycho-therapy (talk sessios) anymore - they just pull out the prescription pad and randomly choose their drug of choice or whichever drug from the manufacturer that gives the most perks for prescribing and yet still charge the same for the office visit as if they had done some talk therapy. If that drug doesn't work, they'll either up the dose or add another or change that original and add another besides, and so forth. Nonsense!

I can debate this further if you choose to - but on a site like this one - I do believe with all of my heart, that Sola Scriptura is the only way to go.

How did the early Church handle spiritual misfits? Drugs?

No - it was the The Word of GOD only and prayer.

I've seen far far too many people zombie-ized with the lies from this so-called "medical" community called psychiatry and I cannot apologise for my reaction to this type counsel because of it.

Jesus is the Great Physician. He created us - He knows us inside out and He is able to bless us with a 'sound mind', through Love & obedience to His Word - if we use our GOD given freewill to choose rightly - moment by moment - choice by choice.

Your situation sounds like classic manic/depression. I would suggest a visit to a psychiatrist. So far you don't sound psychotic, but that could be very close.

nope, just regular suffering like job, king david and all. i don't think they needed any meds?

I'm looking for a mentor though. I sound very dramatic cause i'm so honest. not crazy, not yet anyway.. haha

internet can skew a lot of things.

Codek, the above quotes from your op reveal where your heart has always been, with the world, your flesh and the devil, not with Jesus, at least up to that point when you posted your op,(I'm not sure where your walk is now) . There are multitudes who put on a religious performance but are not born from above. I say this out of sincere concern for you. I am convinced you have had a false conversion like multitudes(see Matt.7:21-23). I was once a deceived false convert myself so I know what its like. Our wicked heart is very deceitful. Well meaning Christians will water down God's Word but I hope and pray you will take heed to truth. It sounded like you were looking for an excuse to go back to your old lifestyle but in a more moderate, sophisticated manner than before. Peter talks about that type of apostasy in 2Peter2... "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Thank you for your concern and being honest. This is the internet so things do get lost in translation.

When you are in the heat of an argument, we all get emotional, you tend to and say things that you don't mean and you exaggerate. When I said the stuff walking back into sin, it was more of a threat to God but mainly it means "God where are you, can't you see how much I need you."

I know that the pleasure of sin comes in at a distant 2nd compared to God's love. For example, girls for the most part want a good relationship with their boyfriend or whatnot. But if they can't get it, they will substitute sex for love. Some of these girls will take love of course over sex but if love is not available, they'll take what they can get. Because sex is cheap intimacy but it's still intimacy in their minds.

So as a human, I'm saying I need the real thing but I live in the flesh so it's a constant battle and that's why I'm going to struggle with sin no matter what it is. Am I deliberately trying to sin, no.

I'm sure if I had a video camera on anyone even on good christian forums, I can nitpick and pinpoint to situations where it seems like they are not christian. And even after being regenerated, do we never lust, never judge, never sin? Of course not.

It's just that when I'm good at something, I get arrogant like we all do. And the premise of christianity is that we are all equals in the eyes of God, messed up sinners in need of a saviour.

I would sincerely exhort you to listen to the following three audio messages with an open mind: Examine Yourself (Paul Washer) https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12829 True and False Conversion (Ray Comfort) https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=437 Hell's Best Kept Secret (Ray Comfort) https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=434

I watched examine yourself probably 5 times. Paul Washer is a respectable person and I love what he did at the youth conference but he is still a man. He needs a saviour like we all do. He even admitted himself that he isn't as holy as he comes off. To be honest, on the pulpit, he seems like he isn't human. With that being said, I have a hard time understanding sermons and come up with real life application when too many religious words are spoken. So I knew what he meant but it was really hard to apply it my life.

Christian language can be vague.

I love this verse

“Elijah was a man just like us.

He prayed earnestly that it would not rain,
and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed,
and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.” James 5:17

There are multitudes who put on a religious performance but are not born from above. I say this out of sincere concern for you. I am convinced you have had a false conversion like multitudes(see Matt.7:21-23). I was once a deceived false convert myself so I know what its like. Our wicked heart is very deceitful.

I was not saved at the time I wrote this post.

I just found out that no ones comes to the father unless he draws him. He drew me a couple of days ago. It was weird but it felt right.

I'm not sure what being fully regenerated means but its a good start.

I think we all start out being deceived false converts. The church never stresses accountability of salvation. They should ask people "Are you sure you are saved?" but as long as you attend church regularly and look good, everyone assumes you are a good christian.

Fascinating how God speaks. Press in to Christ, press through the crowds...press through the multitudes, and touch his garments. Virtue just may come out of him, and into you. Amen Oracio!

Amen and thank you, brother for all your help.

May all Glory be to God who is truly the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and worthy of all praise!

codek, thank you for your patience with me and your gracious replies. I know my post can easily come across to some as being a little too harsh. But like I stated, it was out of sincere concern that you would hear what you need to hear.

no worries. You did nothing wrong. There was just a misunderstanding. And most arguments spawn out of misunderstanding. It's hard to see the whole situation off what you read off the internet.

I am just a man. Many times in this post, I needed encouragement and reproach.

Let us be iron that sharpens iron.

It could have easily been the other way and I could've came off harsh.

At the end of the day, aren't we all just sinners saved by grace.

Thank you for spending the time to write those posts. Whether it was harsh or not, it shows you care.

And I think that's what it's all about. Not who is right or wrong but DO WE REALLY CARE? FOR GOD? FOR ONE ANOTHER?

Re: JESUS
by ChrisMo on 2011/1/7 19:05:15

Hi mate, know what you are going through, have had a very tough 2 or so years. Diagonosed with cancer, family members in very dangerous places, nearly out of finances more than once, my husband has not been able to get work.
GOD is good all the time, it doesn't always feel like it. In the last couple of months, I have said to GOD please leave me alone I want to be ordinary, but I know once HE has got hold of you, you can never be ordinary again. Don't give up if GOD is for you, who can be against you. HE has already one the victory for you at calvary, He loves you with an everlasting love. I want more of HIM and sometimes if we feel this way we have to go through the fire and through the water, HE is making us into HIS image. I am believing for breakthrough, I am believing for a total healing. HE is the GOD of the breakthrough. I want more of HIS precious HOLY SPIRIT, I want to be endued with power from on high, HE is the same yesterday, today and forever, I want to do the things that JESUS did when HE walked the earth, HE has NOT changed but the church has changed and become too much like the world. I want to see the whole Gospel preached where signs and wonders will follow those that believe.
Look up, this is where your redemption comes from.
Blessings Christine

The LORD GOD of Hosts Bless you liberally and your family - in Jesus.

GOD Bless you!

Hi mate, know what you are going through, have had a very tough 2 or so years. Diagonosed with cancer, family members in very dangerous places, nearly out of finances more than once, my husband has not been able to get work. GOD is good all the time, it doesn't always feel like it. In the last couple of months, I have said to GOD please leave me alone I want to be ordinary, but I know once HE has got hold of you, you can never be ordinary again. Don't give up if GOD is for you, who can be against you. HE has already one the victory for you at calvary, He loves you with an everlasting love. I want more of HIM and sometimes if we feel this way we have to go through the fire and through the water, HE is making us into HIS image. I am believing for breakthrough, I am believing for a total healing. HE is the GOD of the breakthrough. I want more of HIS precious HOLY SPIRIT, I want to be endued with power from on high, HE is the same yesterday, today and forever, I want to do the things that JESUS did when HE walked the earth, HE has NOT changed but the church has changed and become too much like the world. I want to see the whole Gospel preached where signs and wonders will follow those that believe. Look up, this is where your redemption comes from. Blessings Christine

Thank you and Blessings to you too, Christine.

Lets go to heaven! Can't wait til that day I meet Him and he says "well done my good and faithful servant" and I will cry and say "this was all for you"

And then it's party time!

I pray that you repented of the accusations that you hurled at the LORD. Shortly after reading your initial post I came across two sources that warned of the danger of treating Him in such a manner. Please forgive me for taking so long in bringing this to your attention. God bless you.

Thank you Heartsong and I thank you for your posts It's all in God's timing.

I'm just learning to trust God. I never intended to hurl insults towards God. I was being as honest as possible and in my limited mind, I thought God wanted to make me suffer and destroy me.

There were times throughout this year that sometimes I would not sleep until the sun came up because I thought if I died I would go to hell. (I'm not crazy but it happened.)

And God is okay with me right now as I am. He isn't in a hurry for that part. He doesn't expect me to be perfect but he sees my heart. I'm like a kid following his father. that's all.

Of course repentance is necessary but not right now.

I need to trust Him and his kindness first.

Isn't it "his kindness that leads us to repentance"

I'm not trying to be harsh but this push for repentance can sometimes come off religious, works-based and judgmental. I'm not specifically pointing anyone out but a lot of people just have this. It's all your fault, hurry up and repent attitude.

And for a guy that put pretty much everything on the line for God this year and most of my life, I just need everyone to get off my back and encourage me.

I can't try any harder. TRUST ME.

And told me just to receive His love and get to know Him for now.

1.]"Of course repentance is necessary but not right now."
2.]"I need to trust Him and his kindness first."
3.]"Isn't it "his kindness that leads us to repentance"
4.]"I'm not trying to be harsh but this push for repentance can sometimes come off religious, works-based and judgmental. I'm not specifically pointing anyone out but a lot of people just have this. It's all your fault, hurry up and repent attitude."
5.]"I just need everyone to get off my back and encourage me.".CODEK
---------------------------------------------------------
It seems obvious to me that the intentions of your post is to justify your wickedness to everyone, and yourself, and it seems that you even glory in it, and all of the attention you have received. [100 RE;s]

One who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, could not consistently justify themselves, and rebut and twist God's Word, and Grace, as you continually do.

I cannot believe that you were ever saved...for there is obviously no fruit of repentance, as the Lord demands, nor is there any real current conviction of sin now.

To me, this thread, on your part, has been a shameful sham, and deceptive. Repent and Believe. Your in grave danger.

5.]"I just need everyone to get off my back and encourage me.".CODEK.......................

Because I love you, and the greatest love I can have for you is that you would know the Savior Jesus, I encourage you to repent and believe, and stop this game your playing with Hell.[and the sincere brothers and sisters on this forum..]

Hi Codek,

I don't know if you've heard this message, but I believe you'll find it helpful.

(The Real Jesus) 3 Jesus Humbled Himself by Zac Poonen

If the link doesn't work you can type the above into Google and the 4th match will give you the sermonindex page which has this message near the bottom of it.

Lets keep this thread going and going and going and going.

Discernment is warranted here.

I need to trust God first. Receive his kindness.

then REPENT.

YOU CAN'T REPENT OUT OF ORDER if you still can't trust God.

in no way am I saying, I don't need to repent. REPENTANCE IS COMING.

And how am I suppose to know what repentance is? I'm a newbie christian and 99% of the messages of this world never talks about repentance. Want to teach me BrotherTom? Want to hear me out first, before you judge me? or are you going to keep shoving repentance down my throat?

Here is a quotation

It’s the kindness of God that leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4).

So why do we act as if it’s our judgmental attitudes that will lead others to it?

I don't know if the rest of the content is legit but that part is solid.

http://revtrev.com/judging/the-kindness-of-god-leads-us-to-repentance/

I would suggest just getting to know the Lord. The more you get to know Him and His love for you the more you will fall in love with Him and the things of this world will grow strangely dim. It is so personal. I love the Gospels. The red letters are the words of Jesus. It's all about Him and who He is. The rest will fall into place. We love Him because He first loved us. I ask the Holy Spirit to teach me as I read and reveal to me what the Lord wants for me. I tell satan to get behind me, this is my time with the Lord. Your special to the Lord and He loves you dearly and longs for you to get to know Him. He will show you His awesome love. My prayers are with you at this time. It is an exciting time for you. I knew nothing of it either. But the Lord never gave up revealing. O how sweet to trust in Jesus.

EXACTLY. This is the foundation. Without this, your repentance is fake and works based. Believe me I tried. It was fake repentance and it didn't work.

Even though I feel I can trust God more. In my human mind, it would still make more sense that God would hate us and want us all to go to hell. Do you know why? Because we all see 99% evil in our lives, everywhere we look. And God is good but He only speaks in whispers. So if you're not listening, it'll go right by you. But the thing that doesn't make sense about that is, why hasn't he sent us there already if he wanted to send us to hell? Maybe he wants to torture us first and make us think we can go to heaven but send us to hell. That is how much distrust I had with God. I need to repair it badly

Everyday I wake up and throughout the day I repeat "I love you" and I'm pretending it's God saying to me and I cringe a lot when I say it because sometimes it just doesn't seem that way but i'm making progress.

I also know what the technical term of repentance is. It is turning away but you can try to repent for all eternity and if God doesn't help you, you will FAIL.

And most people here talk of repentance as if it's something that happens right away and is completed in 1 min. Sin is powerful and strong and you can't win against it by yourself.

I was talking to another brother how overcoming sin and repentance doesn't happen overnight. But what do we preach in churches and forums, you must repent and be PERFECT that instant.

If you can do that, you don't need God.

And I'm not habitually going outta my way to sin. I am trying hard to find out who God is. I just watched 10 indictments yesterday, read the bible daily, participate on this forum daily.

I willingly became an invalid for Jesus and you know what? HE DIDN'T COME THROUGH

He didn't ask you to do any of those things, you done them yourself.

You, like everyone else who starts out with God, including myself, take on so much and it's not necessary. I had all those books that you bought, all those sermons and all those teachings manuals. One day I asked the Lord, "What do I do with all this stuff?". His answer was stunning, "Junk it". It went to the curb immediately. I was "trying" to serve God and God wasn't having it. He waited until I got so sick of it all and myself and then He started to work His knowledge in me, His wisdom, and His understanding.

God is not interested in our performance, He knows what He can do in us that will please Him.

God would say to you Brother through the Apostle Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you.

Get a job and support yourself like everyone else and serve Jesus the best you know how.

I am not being critical, I am being practical.

Take care and be blessed.

Get a job and support yourself like everyone else and serve Jesus the best you know how. I am not being critical, I am being practical.

Sometimes God wants you to be practical, sometimes He wants you to go all the way. Jesus's life and the disciples's life were not practical. Missionaries in China's lives are not practical. After reading the gospels, it's hard to discern what God wants. And too practical could mean look warm.

Thank you for the advice but I needed to go all out and lose it all to find Him in this situation but a lot of times he does want you to go practical.

Also when mark of the beast comes, you can not go practical.

Codex if you want to know how much God loves you, meditate on the cross. Jesus bore every single one of your sins on that cross because he wants you to be reconciled to him.

odex if you want to know how much God loves you, meditate on the cross. Jesus bore every single one of your sins on that cross because he wants you to be reconciled to him.

trying to but I'm not there yet. I just am working on "He likes me"

I just am working on "He likes me"

Do you believe what God has said about you?

For example, John 3:16 For God so loved Codek, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now brother, what your really dealing with here is a besetting sin. Most everyone has one. But you consider yours to be pretty bad and how in the world can God love me in this condition.

Your going to have to make up your mind Brother whom your going to believe. Are you going to believe the word of God that says that Christ came into the world to save sinners or your going to believe the lie of the devil that says, "God can't love you, your a filthy rotten sinner".

Christ has taken care of the sin, what you need to do is exercise your faith and believe that God is able to save you regardless of what pit of despair your in. The grace of God is able to reach down in any place, nothing is to deep for God's grace. Love for man, love for you, brought Christ to this earth and love went to the cross and love went to hell on our behalf and love rose again.

Stop worrying about the mark of the beast, stop worrying period, cast all your anxieties on the Lord as Paul admonished us to do and just relax like Mary did when she sat at the feet of Jesus while Martha was cumbered about with so many things.

In closing, my best advice is for you to repent(don't put it off), and to look to Jesus Christ for your salvation.If needed, ask God to help you to repent wholeheartedly. Do not look at your works for God, they are like filthy rags in His sight. Look to Jesus on that cross and trust in Him and His sacrifice alone, and you will be saved. He is drawing you...will you come clean and broken or continue to resist His conviction on your soul?

Repent of what? I'm not doing anything. Seriously, I don't have unconfessed sin.

I seriously don't understand what you guys are talking about. When I thought I got regenerated, I asked for forgiveness of my sins. What else do you want me to do?

Should I repent everyday? every hour? Is the gospel only limited to repentance? I'm not understanding you guys.

It's first and foremost a relationship? no?

codek, He clearly sees your heart, you are motivated by selfish ambitions, not out of love or gratitude toward Him.

??? what if I just don't understand. So is He going to just kill me and send me to hell because I don't understand? Are you insane?

If you asking to see if I already asked for forgiveness, I already did.

But don't expect me to know all this because I lurked on here for the past year. I grew up in messed up churches that spoke of greasy grace and altar calls and now God is going to send me to hell right this second because of a technicality?

How long did it take you guys to truly learn the gospel the correct way? 5 seconds?

You want me to repent again, I'll repent again.

I would suggest just getting to know the Lord. The more you get to know Him and His love for you the more you will fall in love with Him and the things of this world will grow strangely dim. It is so personal. I love the Gospels. The red letters are the words of Jesus. It's all about Him and who He is. The rest will fall into place. We love Him because He first loved us. I ask the Holy Spirit to teach me as I read and reveal to me what the Lord wants for me. I tell satan to get behind me, this is my time with the Lord. Your special to the Lord and He loves you dearly and longs for you to get to know Him. He will show you His awesome love. My prayers are with you at this time. It is an exciting time for you. I knew nothing of it either. But the Lord never gave up revealing. O how sweet to trust in Jesus.

Since I repented, I'm gonna focus on this. To actually get to know Jesus as a person. Is that ok with you guys?

Hello again codek,

I want to share a small anecdote which is true.

Graham Kendrick was giving a concert in my part of Scotland, and friends of mine went to hear him. In one of the interludes between songs, he got round to asking the audience "Is there anyone here with no problems?"

One man put up his hand. Mr Kendrick said "I'd like to meet you afterwards".

You see, he was looking to have fellowship with anyone who had so fully put their life into God's hands, and was in such trust with Him, that he refused to worry about anything.

Back to the present.

Earlier in the thread you said you don't know the Bible well enough. To be honest, if you did, I don't think you would have started this thread.

But knowing the Bible is not the answer on its own. You have to BE like the Jesus you meet there. The Jesus who was led like a lamb to the slaughter WITHOUT opening Him mouth, who when he was reviled, reviled not in return, who learned obedience by the things He suffered.

So... how do you get through those very difficult times?

There is a book called 'From Prison to Praise'. There are truths in there. God inhabits the praises of His people. Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings He has PERFECTED praise.

Truly, Proverbs speaks to sons to 'get understanding' about many things, but you have to be walking in His steps for any of the advice in scripture to make sense. In fact, some of it doesn't make sense to the natural man, to the unrenewed mind. There is a very confusing season to pass through, as the ingrained culture of the world's thinking is washed out of us by the blood of Jesus, and the work of the Holy Spirit, but pass through it you must if you are to come to that place of mental rest which accords with

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep [him] in perfect peace, [whose] mind [is] stayed [on thee]: because he trusteth in thee.

{perfect...: Heb. peace, peace}

{mind: or, thought, or, imagination}

If what you're struggling with is not to do with repentance, then you have to stop mithering and buckle down to following hard after your Saviour BELIEVING He is leading you in the way you should go.

Start doing what scripture tells you a Christian is supposed to be doing, in the gospels, and God will be backing you up all the way. That's all there is to it!

When we are convicted of the Holy Spirit of our sin, we see the goodness of God in His mercy, which always brings a Godly sorrow, that leads us to repentance. It is the nature of conviction.
..................2Cor:7
"For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.

10 For......GODLY SORROW PRODUCES REPENTANCE LEADING TO SALVATION!,
....not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner:"

"What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication!"

"In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter."..

[John the Baptist and Jesus preached that people would bring forth the FRUITS of repentance.]
LUKE 3.
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him,
"“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"
8 "Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance....!!

...and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees.

...........!!Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” !!!

Psalm 51
....."For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
"You do not delight in burnt offering."

17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise."

.......Codek.quote??.." what if I just don't understand. So is He going to just kill me and send me to hell because I don't understand?
Are you insane?"..[to Oracio]

"Im not afraid of who I am and where I stand with God."
[FEAR AND HUMILITY?]
" I can also justify myself in calling you Satan or a pharisee but I won't because these are internet posts."
[REPRISAL OR REPENTANCE?]
Let me ask you this? Where is the love here?
[ Codek to me, Brothertom]

The love here has to do with loving the truth, even against our own wicked and prideful nature's. This always brings godly sorrow. You seem to be manifesting the opposite.

Is it possible that you are resisting Him, and attacking the truth that is brought to you?

"Marvel not that I say unto you, You MUST be born again!"
Jesus.

My friend Codek, you're seriously going to ruin yourself listening to all these people. Hear God speak to you for yourself. If He says you're a son of His then you already have all you need. Even if it does not feel like it, all Spirit blessing is yours already. I don't want to call these folk Job's friends so I won't. After a while, you will get to the point when you must choose between hearing men's kind thoughts and God's Faith words. Faith works like this: If God says it, we can believe it will happen and that God is well able to make it come to pass. If God did not say He will do something, we cannot call it Faith, but an assumption. Like, "I have faith for a billion dollars and five cars and a mansion." Did God speak it first? No? Then no earthly stuff. But, if God said that tomorrow, you will be on a beach, I will give you all the currency you need, preach to 1000's of cannibals and I will Save them, then rest assured, it WILL happen! You believe and do not doubt. Now, God said in His Word that He gives us the power to become the Sons of God. And that He has provided all Spirit Blessing and given us even His own Righteousness. So, no matter the looks of the earthly circumstances, God is well able to perform that which He said He would. He will do what He said He will do. Based on Jesus and the Cross, this has come to pass. Now our job is to keep that Faith daily. That is walking in the Spirit.

I got this from Alan Martin today by E-mail

"The Father wants us to be filled only with His Christ. Will you let Him deal so thoroughly in His love, until you are consumed with Him, having to continually depend upon Him, instead of anything of yourself?"

For God to take you deeper into Himself, He must expose all in you that is not of Himself. I hope that, as He shines in you, you will take Him as Grace, to deal completely, so He may possess you wholly, and bring you into His fullness in your lifetime.

Dr Yu. (Chinese Martyr - 1956)

Believe it or not, codek, this is my desire for you. It is a two edged sword, this fire that exposes our wicked, satanic natures, and destroys us, that He may live through us...never the less,.."I" live....the mystery of Godliness.

We all must be born again, the second time. The Holy Spirit actually makes a home within us, in real and consistent conviction, each and every day. My hope for you is that you find this treasure...the Pearl of great price...that we buy by selling everything we are,and will ever be...to obtain it.

Those of us who were sons of Satan, sons of our wicked natures....certainly knew [and know] the moment when His glorious Holy spirit baptized us...in waves of love, purity, and glory.

I was in another world for months, and led over 50 people to Jesus within the first few weeks of my born again experience.[1972] I was so transformed from the filth, and carnality, that I did not recognize myself when looking into a mirror. I never knew love until that moment.

By grace, I have seen many also born again in similar fashion...here and in other countries...and have cast out real devils, spoke with other tongues, and preached the gospel to many.

That in itself is meaningless though, for God looks at my heart, and I need cleansing every day, and I need to die every day, so that He might live.....There is nothing in me good, except Him. I have many faults.

He chastises and disciplines sons and daughters...and it is surely continual....until we leave this Earth. God is teaching us how to love, if we will receive it. We are all failures....we do not possess holiness in any part of us....me first.

I really do hope the best for you, and never meant to condemn you, but the truth about our character will be confronted by God, sooner or later, and the truth is a Person. He demands that we learn of Him, the meek and lowly One. We must bend unto Him; He does not exist to cater or to bless us. He exists to bring many sons and daughters to perfection...having learned to bear the fruit of the holy seed of God.

This is the nature of repentance towards God...not some legal manuever or rigid lifestyle. My best wishes codek.[last post].

I appreciate the concern and the tone of your post. We will have to agree to disagree. I made that statement only after codek himself admitted to having selfish motives for "serving" Christ, and after discerning that he is still in the gall of biterness and bond of sin(see Acts 8:20-23). Spurgeon stated, “Ho, Ho, Sir Surgeon. You are too delicate to tell the man that he is ill. You hope to heal the sick without their knowing it. You therefore flatter them. And what happens? They laugh at you. They dance upon their own graves and at last they die. Your delicacy is cruelty, your flatteries are poisons you are a murderer. Shall we keep men in a fool's paradise? Shall we lull them into soft slumber from which they will awake in hell? Are we to become helpers of their damnation by our smooth speeches? In the name of God we will not." I do not want to contribute to that kind of flattery for I will stand before God one day and give account of how I dealt with non-believers or false converts, whether truthfully or with flattery. codek, my heart truly goes out to you. You are an example of what happens when preachers sugarcoat God's Word, and like you stated, preach a "greasy grace". You asked what you should repent of. I meant in general, not necessarily referring to a specific sin in your life. Keep seeking, asking, and knocking(Jer.29:12-13) I thought I would post part of a comment I posted on another thread pertaining to salvation: ...."Brethren, I believe we must be careful in pronouncing someone saved when we do not see enough fruit in their walk. Ultimately only God knows who is or isn't really saved, for He alone truly sees where our heart is, whether toward Him or toward the world. That said, the Bible does promise that we can have assurance of salvation(1John5:13); especially recommended reading would be Johns writings, as well as our Lord's sermon on the mount. Our Lord said a tree is known by its fruit and we will know them by their fruit. True believers are called to be "fruit inspectors" so to. If someone seems to show fruit I believe we are safe in saying that they seem to know the Lord, or even believe that they are saved. But I do not believe we are safe to say that we know for sure that they are saved, for we do not see their heart like God does. If we do not see enough fruit in the life of someone who claims to know Christ I believe it is our duty to warn them if we know them or speak to them. This kind of warning is throughout Scripture. But by and large we have neglected that kind of warning and duty, to the destruction of multitudes of souls in our churches. One of the greatest deceptions in this generation has been in the area of quickly pronouncing someone saved, simply for going forward at altar calls, saying a sinners prayer, going to church, reading the Word, knowing Christianese lingo, etc."....

Actually you're not speaking truth here, you're speaking condemnation. You expect me to know what this is all about after I told you I grew up in the watered down church of the era. So I figured out it was wrong and I'm trying to learn how to do this right. The key is I'm still a beginner still struggling with the fact that God loves me. My selfish motives is not really selfish. It's what I've been taught. I didn't know better.

I'll give you this analogy. Imagine you have a son, he is 6 years old. You sent him out to a soccer camp for 10 years where at the end the camp, he will be have honed his skills enough to be a professional soccer player.

Later on, you find out that he needs to play basketball in the NBA. You would be the type of father expecting the kid to have NBA 3pt range, be able to do a 360 dunk and be able to rebound against 7 footers in a One Month's time.

I sincerely hope God won't judge you for your lack of love. I understand your duty to speak truth but didn't Christ command us to love God first and your brothers. Didn't Paul write that he loved his brothers so much that he wanted to take their place in hell?

So you want me to already understand God's love when all I ever experienced was hate, betrayal and lies for 20 years? Just know what the love of God is by reading this thread, just like that?

Oracio, WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR SALVATION. I'M LOOKING FOR YOUR FRUITS AND IT HAS ME CONCERNED AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW MUCH.

But even as a newbie, I still understand Jesus's 1st and 2nd commandment.

The reason why I can't do what you asked is because that I don't understand God's love for me. It's not an easy thing to understand. I've been betrayed and lied to so much before even with people misusing scripture, there is damage there that has to be healed.

Brother Oracio, this sermon link is what SermonIndex/Greg gave this poster back on page 3.

It takes a day for me to download just a 10 minute youtube.

Could you give a look at it and a short summary for the 'youtube impaired'.

Quote: SermonIndex:
"I encourage you also to watch this video about struggling with sin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrlPP8s3_o "

Thanks!

Would also like to point out page 9 of this thread and Oracio's kindness / wisdom in his posts.

Praying.

codek, I understand the analogy. I see it more like trying to help prevent you from having a false sense of assurance due to wrong counsel from well meaning Christians. You yourself have admitted, even recently that you still don't really know God but are a seeker, an "almost believer". Yet there are some here who have been trying to convince you that you are a true believer already.

You have it wrong. I'm not saved right now. There is no false assurance of salvation. I don't think they are giving me a false assurance of salvation. It seems like most of their message to me is that God loves me and to keep striving for the truth. Basically Seek and you shall find so eventually I might be saved.

wow, i can't believe this thread is still going on

indeed.