Could someone please help me try and understand this verse? I believe I understand it as the moment the Lord gave Judas over to his sin as we read in Romans 1:28? Does this seem accurate? Any reply would be appreciated Please and THANK YOU!
God Bless,
Matthew
The devil took possession of Judas and Jesus addressed 'them' and told them to do what they intended.
1 Corinthians 2:6-8
What translations are you both reading? I do not see that wording in my KJV. Nor in the Matthew Henry Commentary. It may be helpful if I read some other translations.
Matthew Henry does point out that the devil was already in Judas but now 'returned with 7 more spirits.' Also, that he entered him to to throw him into the fire or run him down the hill to the sea, which would have been far better for him than the contempt he received for Jesus. (Paraphrasing his work here.)
Kind regards,
white stone
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (John 13:27 KJV)
Sorry White Stone, I read the King James version. Gr. Satanas (accuser) entered (as in how we would go through a doorway) into Judas.
Hi Matthew,
I had a post, but somehow when I hit submit, it did not load.
Now, I don't have time to write it beautifully, and you will have to do your own foot slog.
If you search for 'Satan', you will find no evidence that he is plural. Remember Job 1 also, and Peter's roaring lion. See Psa 22. Satan doesn't just represent the mind of flesh, he IS the mind of flesh. John 8:44.
Look also at Judas in John 12, concerned more for the money than the worship of God. Idolatry (self worship) is the issue in Rom 1. Compare with first commandment.
Note also, that Rom 2:4 is where Paul is going in Rom 1.
John 10:1. John's verses about antiChrist. John 17:12 and John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Psalms 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up [his] heel against me. {mine...: Heb. the man of my peace} {lifted...: Heb. magnified}
Nevertheless, God has given us an ability to hunger afer righteousness and the ability to know when we have met with Him or not.
Mark 5:6. Legion, though full of demons 'ran and worshipped' Jesus as soon as he saw him. This brings in James 1 on temptation - a man being enticed with the sin within him. Now this is relevant to Rom 1, but, there are many other reasons a person may need to be delivered from other spirits, not necessarily their own personal choice to sin. Be gentle with them.
1 Cor 14:32 lines up with James 1. We have power over our actions. The question is whether we will line ourselves up with God's desires, or, the temptation to follow the desires of the flesh.
Look also at the return of the seventy. Jesus had already got victory over Satan spiritually. He had been the chief cherubim, beautiful, shining in the presence of God's glory - until he wanted others to glorify him instead. See Christ's temptations.
Satan's personal agenda is to take the place of the Son of God as the heir of all things. Note in the tempations he has taken the earth from Adam, and now he offers it back to Christ, whereas Christ has a larger agenda - to reclaim the whole of creation back from the effects of the fall.
I don't think seven other spirits more wicked apply until a man who has been delivered from a spirit, continues in sin. Jesus said to several: Go and sin no more.
Hello Areadymind,
Your original post
The devil took possession of Judas and Jesus addressed 'them' and told them to do what they intended. 1 Corinthians 2:6-8
Going to 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 gives me no clue to the quote you gave. I am seeking to learn where you got the
part. Please help be to understand.'them'
Also,
I, too read the KJV but do not have what you have quoted. Perhaps, yours has something mine does not, such as in learning helps? I would like to know so I can search for one like that, too.Gr. Satanas (accuser) entered (as in how we would go through a doorway) into Judas.
Kind regards, I need all the help understanding possible, I am not trying to nit pick.
white stone
I must seriously be missing something. I cant figure out what the question is.
You are not alone. I just reread the original post and noticed the reference to Romans 1:28. Upon reading that I do not really see the connection to Judas at the Last Supper.
Or, was it my questions you do not understand? I tried to be clear but my wording may be flaky.
white stone
"You are not alone. I just reread the original post and noticed the reference to Romans 1:28. Upon reading that I do not really see the connection to Judas at the Last Supper."
Perhaps I can make myself more clear by trying to help you understand my question :)
Looking at the account of Matthew at this very same scene we see Judas hypocritically ask "Master,Is it I?" in 26:25. Judas knew full well it was him that had planned on betraying Jesus... What gets me is Judas could very well have repented and had many opportunties to repent of this betrayal but his love for money and greed made over ran his heart.
We learn from scripture if we harden our hearts to the whispers of the Holy Spirit and continue to sin knowing full well its wrong the Lord will hand us over to our depraved mind, such as done in Romans 1:28 Judas knew God and His power but ultimately denied God for self gain. That is what I am talking about when I ask the question in the OP. Hope that clears it up for you :)
Yes Judas did know, and he didn't know how he would feel afterwards.
Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that]. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. 7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
The hypocrisy of the priests never fails to impress me.
In light of your comments though, I got to thinking about Judas. Do you think Satan applied for him as he had for Job, and God didn't put any restrictions on what he could do to him?
mguldner wrote..
Looking at the account of Matthew at this very same scene we see Judas hypocritically ask "Master,Is it I?" in 26:25. Judas knew full well it was him that had planned on betraying Jesus... What gets me is Judas could very well have repented and had many opportunties to repent of this betrayal but his love for money and greed made over ran his heart.
I was listening to some very interesting Bible Studies by River of Life Church the other day. They were going over New Testament "themes" in the Old Testament (Something that TRULY interests me! To tie these together one can really see God's heart altogether.). The first one I listened to was about Cain and Abel. If you read the scripture closely, (vs 7) Cain had many warnings to repent, to turn from his sins. But instead he kept choosing a wayward life of pleasing self rather than God.
vs.6 The Lord even asked him, why are you so angry? I told you if you did well, you would be accepted.
instead of doing well he murdered his brother! vs. 8
The study goes into some greater detail too. what you can learn from just 10 verses! truly amazing.
Be Blessed in Christ,
Michelle
"In light of your comments though, I got to thinking about Judas. Do you think Satan applied for him as he had for Job, and God didn't put any restrictions on what he could do to him?"
I believe its a possibility however I believe Satan tempted more than just Judas but the difference is Judas gave into the lust of his flesh rejecting the Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus Himself for momentary gain.
The last part " and he repented himself" does this mean that Judas repented?
This kind of opens up a little more about Judas. Could it be that he was jealous of Jesus?By the first century A.D., the Romans had named the region south of Judea, Idumea, the Latin form of Edom. In the preceding period, the Nabateans, a nomadic tribe from the east, had driven the Edomites (descendants of Esau) from their homeland on the east side of the Arabah (between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba). The Edomites fled westward and settled in the Negev.Since Judas Iscariot (ish means "man of") apparently came from Kerioth, a city in this region, it is likely that he was a descendant of Esau.
Could it be possible that he read that if it's wasn't for Jacob, Esau could have had the birthright and therefore hated Christ for it?
Just some thoughts to think on.
Sorry White_stone, I had not had time to respond to this recently. I apologize for my lack of careful wording, I was dead tired (which is a poor excuse) when I wrote my post originally.
I was just making the observation that when the Devil took possession of Judas that by Christ telling him to do what he was going to do, he was addressing both of them. If two people are in one body, Christ's address goes to them both. I am only taking an inductive liberty to word it that way, it is not a translational issue...just my own observation.
The reason I quoted 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 was because that passage is speaking (I believe) not about the worldly rulers but the principalities and rulers of this world, of whom the Devil is the prince. The Devil possessed Judas and did not understand what he was doing. He was bent on destruction through Judas, and would not have done what he did had he realized -along with the rest of the rulers of the age- that the crucifixion of Christ was the very wisdom of God.
I hope that clears it up.
Matthew 26:20-25 KJV
(20) Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
(21) And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
(22) And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
(23) And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
(24) The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
(25) Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
I am not sure that Judas really understood where the end of his greed would take him. I have heard it preached that he expected Jesus to deliver himself out of the hands of the priests. It may be that Judas was shocked to see that Jesus allowed himself to be taken. And when Judas realized that Jesus would be killed he was sorry that he had delivered Him to the priests. But this did not change the consequences of Judas’ actions, nor relieve the guilt he felt.
Matthew 27:1-5 KJV
(1) When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
(2) And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
(3) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
(4) Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
(5) And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
I was just making the observation . . . . not a translational issue...just my own observation. . . . I hope that clears it up.
Thank you, Areadymind,
The thread got moved and I almost missed your reply. It is appreciated,
white stone
"I am not sure that Judas really understood where the end of his greed would take him. I have heard it preached that he expected Jesus to deliver himself out of the hands of the priests. It may be that Judas was shocked to see that Jesus allowed himself to be taken. And when Judas realized that Jesus would be killed he was sorry that he had delivered Him to the priests. But this did not change the consequences of Judas’ actions, nor relieve the guilt he felt."
Faith1 Thank you for this thought, I enjoyed it quite a lot actually. It would make sense that Judas would expect Christ to deliver Himself from the priest thus having "gain" with no "pain" I think Judas would be an interesting character to interview if that were even possible.
yes, his deception, might have been, to force Jesus into setting up His rule now, because they believed the Messiah would have a kingdom on earth like David, and over throw the Roman rule.
Just some thoughts.
Love in Christ tom
May I ask you some questions to help clarify? :) I really enjoy other input on these kind of things. Helps me grow and learn more about Christ Jesus.
From your statement would you say the Pharisees and Council actually accepted Christ to be the Messiah but rejected Him for their worldly religion and gain? That perhaps their plot was to call Christ bluff so to speak? Like "If He is the Messiah when presented with death He will have to save Himself but if not we have killed another looney" And so Judas believed to be helping Christ set up His kingdom by betraying Him? :) Sorry just some expansion of what you wrote in hopes to go deeper.
I would say that the Pharisees carnal motivation was to not lose their power and authority over the people. But an even deeper meaning, possibly even unknown to most of them was that they were helping to fulfill prophecy.
Caiaphas made the statement that showed the fulfillment of prophecy, but did he understand what he said? I do not know. From the passage it sounds like God gave him those words to speak, (verse 51 And this spake he not of himself). And when he said that one should die for the people, it could be he just thought the people of Israel. But we know that Jesus died for all people.
John 11:47-53 KJV
(47) Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
(48) If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
(49) And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
(50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
(51) And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
(52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
(53) Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
John 12:42-43 KJV
(42) Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
(43) For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
I just love that verse and I guess I lean more the Caiaphas not really knowing what he was saying, to me it almost seems God uses those that set up themselves as His enemy to fulfill His plan and even cause them to say things they don't fully realize. I am very curious as to what the Pharisees thought of Pauls preaching when He made statements of Christ dying for all. And the fact Caiaphas likely heard Paul preach or was told what Paul was preaching by others and remembered what He said that fateful night. I suppose the plot thickens! :) The more I study this though the more I am amazed as how awesome God is which ultimately is our Goal to see Christ high and lifted up.
I wrote this when the thread first began and others have now noted some of the things noted below.
Satan did not have to apply to God for Judas. Judas was not the servant that Job was. Satan did not learn or did not apply what he learned from his experience with God concerning Gods servant Job.
RE: JUDAS
I think much can be learned in meditating on what is written about Judas, considering Judas as a fallen man like any man, as a man walking in the flesh as any one of us might find ourselves. Judas, like other disciples, thought that Jesus was going to come into His kingdom AT THAT TIME. Judas had seen, like the others, the power of God in Jesus, he knew that Jesus was without sin, he had even gone out with delegated power as the others did.
Judas, like other disciples, probably desired a high position. Scripture suggests it is the money that he perhaps thought went along with a high position that mattered to him. I doubt that he looked at the 30 pieces of silver as his consolation prize (“well at least I can get $ and the rulers will owe me). Although it might have been a thought he had (Jesus will make his move when they lay hold of him and if not …). Some Judas-like thoughts to bolster Judas-like actions might have been: “Can these men even kill God/the son of God? Will a father [God] allow his son [Jesus] to be killed? If Jesus does not step up, surly God will.”
SATAN ENTERS INTO JUDAS:
Forcing Jesus to come into his kingdom, apart from the Word and will of God, was Satan-business at that time. Note the power that the Son of Man would have used, would have been the power of Satan over man and not the power of God (the gospel). In the flesh, followers force leaders, even manipulate them to do the “right thing” {what they them selves want/see], even the things written in scripture. The ground that Satan used, was the will of Judas.
Satan entered into Judas because Judas was not going to get the victory, Satan desired that. In a sense, what Satan did to God, Judas did to Jesus. Satan was at war with the Son of God who (“foolishly”) humbled himself. Satan thought he had the double advantage that God had come in the flesh AND was in the world with only men of flesh (like Judas). Judas was at war with Jesus the Son of man, thinking he knew THE WAY for such a man to come to power.
The Word of God endures forever. May I always wait on the Lord. [Isa 40]
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