OVERCOMING SEXUAL PASSIONS by Zac Poonen

Thanks for posting this Greg. God has used Brother Zac to bring so many beautiful hidden truths of God to light that have set so many free.

sadly, this is law and will never work.

Grace is why people get Saved and Grace is why people live right.

Begin first of all, by humbling yourself in all situations. Avoid all arrogance. Then begin to be hard-working and diligent in whatever you do. Then try fasting – avoiding food – once in a while. And fourthly, begin to think a little more about the needs of people around you and see how you can help them.

1. How is one humbled? By accepting Perfect Grace. Grace removes ALL efforts of self - That is the most humbling. No self-religion. So that eliminates the rest:

2. Be hard-working... is that sounding like that pastor that said to do push ups every time you have a lustful thought? Yes. And does Jesus say to work and work harder to stop sinful activity? NO! He said to Rest in Him. What did He mean when He said to Pluck your eye out if it offend you? It means, even if you did do that, the inward evil desire would still be there. Hence, the need to Radical Grace. Like the kind Paul White ministers.

3. Fasting, another work. Work harder! Fast more! like the Catholics who commit spiritual fornication by all their useless acts of contrition. works and law will never do what Grace does.

4. think of others. That's nice... even mormons and JWs and muslims and hindus do this... If they would just have an encounter with Ultimate Grace and Favor, they would not see good morals as a merit to stick in God's face, to in turn, have Him reward us with earned righteousness. Morality and community outreach without resting in His Finished Work are religion at best.

That's what I meant by what I said. Be not deceived! God's Righteousness cannot be bought!

knitefall,

Did you ever check out all the NT scriptures that teach one to 'put on'? Try it an see what it teaches you. Use e-Sword...

Knitefall...

1. We are saved by grace through FAITH (Eph 2:8). Steps of obedience are first. We must first surrender our will and submit under the authority of Christ, WHICH IS CALLED FAITH. :)

We are saved by faith, but if you do not believe you will not be saved, brother.

Belief is an action, a working of the will.

2. For he that is entered into his rest: he also hath ceased from his own works as God did from his. Heb 4:10
How does one enter to rest?? By first surrendering to Christ.

3. Fasting helps to put to death the flesh, helps to "cease from one's own works"

Just like Jesus-is-God said, there are SOOOO MANY verses in the New Testament that tells us to put down the flesh. To bring your body into subjection(fasting). Paul is speaking to Christians in these letters, not to the lost!

In order to get clean I have to take a shower right? But why, if I could just believe I can get clean right?? haha no. :) I have to be cleansed by the life-giving flow. Which takes faith and obedience to His Word. "Follow me and I will give you rest."

"give and take" relationship

my friends, some of you cannot be farther from the Truth in Jesus.

What can we offer the Lord? Besides the Faith that He gives us to have Faith in Him with?

This is very good discussion BTW. and I'm happy to be involved.

There are many that are struggling with sinful thought and activity and love God but do not know that all their sins are gone.

I taught my little 5 and 6 year olds in class that God is no longer angry at us. An why? Because sin was judged already. How much? All! So, if all was judged at Calvary, what is left for you and me to pay for?

I mean every respect of offense. To religion that is but no one personally. Many Scriptures that have been pulled out have nothing to do with the flesh works of the post.

Flesh is not sinning acts of sins. Flesh is attempting to offer God anything in order to get anything. That's living by the flesh and not the Spirit. It's also called religion, no matter how many holy words you attach to it.

now, how do we learn obedience? Not by "trying harder" not to sin! But obedience to what? Specifically, WHO? To The Faith of the Son of God! In other words, Christ and Him Crucified for payment of all sin.

To answer the quote directly, Where at all do we see any example of us giving anything besides filthy rags to our Lord? Filthy rags are actions and behaviors that we think God is pleased with.

No, none of that. We can only TAKE from our Lord. And He gave freely. You're getting good preaching whether you realize it or not.

By the renewal of the mind we are Transformed from Glory to Glory into His image. By seeing Jesus, high and Lifted above all self can ever offer, we are made into His image. By knowing what He has done for us and all we are freely given, we are changed from the inside out. Supernaturally and never by efforts of self-law.

I mean no personal harm to anyone but I do mean destruction to the flesh's attempt at stealing God's Glory. He hates religion.

I THANK YOU FATHER FOR YOUR WORD!!! I truly thank Jesus for HIS WORD!!! His word is the ONLY true words that we as Christians have to cling to IF we truly believe in Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and truly seek and desire to know the truth of the one we call Father.

I say all of this because as one who is still yet learning and striving, it can be very easy for me to be swayed back and forth with all kinds of teachings, but I THANK GOD (I can't say that enough!) for HIS GRACE, and HIS WORD, and HIS LOVE, and MERCY in my life, and always leading back to HIS WORD when doubt, or confusion tries to set in!

KNITEFALL, everything that you have stated for someone like me who barely escaped the flames of hell, and who is everyday fighting the good fight of Christianity to stay in the grace of God seems too good to be true, and in fact... I believe that it is too good to be true. When I think over all of the things that I have done... all of the gross sins that I was caught up in and some that I still battle, but with God's help WILL overcome... to believe that because I profess to believe that Jesus died for my sins, ALL of my sins are now washed away, so that's it. I just kick back and rest in knowing that it is done with no work other than just believing on my part is a hard concept to wrap my mind around even though it is TEMPTING to do so.

I DON'T AT ALL believe that one has to literally work his/her way into heaven by running around slaving doing all kinds of outwardly "good things." I do absolutely believe that we are to carry out the WORKS OF THE SPIRIT, which bring about much fruit in our lives. I most certainly believe that we are to HUMBLE ourselves before the Lord, by putting off our flesh... fornication, lying, stealing, etc... so that we are lifted up by God's grace and formed more into His likeness.

How do you explain what Paul was saying when he made this statement; 1Co 9:27 But I keep under[buffet] my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Reading the post of others who are in opposition to your thoughts, and seeing that they have provided scriptures (God's words, not man), unless I don't believe God, and I do... His word, His thoughts, His commands, are what we should be adhering, and clinging to. Not our own because I would love to believe your thoughts on this... trust me. It would make for a much simpler, NOT so selfless life of living for God.

I would love to see scriptures and your thoughts on them that would back up your belief on this topic, Please.

Thank you and God Bless. I am very interested in learning more about the Word of God.

awesome post FooFee

I must go to sleep for work tomorrow. And I have already compiled a list of Scripture for us to go over later. good night.

knitefall wrote:
sadly, this is law and will never work.

Everyone who has ever been raised in church knows that Sodom was full of sexual sins; I thought it was very astute of Zac to bring out that God never said he destroyed them because of their sexual sins BUT because of their pride, laziness, gluttony and neglecting the poor and needy.

I believe Zac is right on because I’ve heard Derek Prince associate that those who have sexual sins have problems with gluttony.

And sexual sins are all about self-indulgence, are they not? So it stands to reason that that self-indulgence spreads its tentacles into the other four areas of a person’s life and MORE if that person is married.

If a person who has problems with pornography, adultery, homosexuality; if they would take an honest look into their life (with the Holy Ghost’s help); they would see that self-indulgence or selfishness is a huge problem.

God bless you,
Lisa

We shall have a wonderful time soon. I have the Scriptures ready and after work today, I will present them. It will be night by the time I get loosed from being a bondslave... so have fun in the while.

Here is a snippet of my Gospel:

Because the posted topic is really about 'Overcoming Sins,' there is only One, very narrow road to walk, if you're going to correctly have the eyes to 'see' it.

parable,

let's say you come home and tell your wife,

"Honey, I didn't cheat on you today because the Law says not to and I didn't want to go to hell for breaking the law..."

Now, She wouldn't be excited about that would she? If anything, she'd doubt and not be very happy at all about you keeping law.

Yet in Christianity, we treat God as if the highest form of worship is to try and obey all the Law. And this so in this mentallity, "Okay, I got Saved and now I can do it... thank you Jesus, I got it from here."

Jesus came to fulfill it. It's paid for! Which is another topic of paying (making sacrifice) for sins not covered by the Blood of the Lamb.

If the bank forgives a debt, what use would it be to get a job and try and pay it off yourself?

They'd think you're crazy! So why do many Christians, w/o realizing they're doing it, try and pray real hard to get sin out, read their Bible until they fall asleep to get sins out, fast to 'put the flesh down' and all other manner of attempting to earn by the law, something from God?

The Holy Spirit did not teach them that! And they do not understand the sin problem and do not understand what the flesh really is.

Now let me give you the other chapter to our story.

"Honey, I know you LOVE me and when that opportunity came, all I could think about was of how much you LOVE me and I had to just come home to see you."

The Father treats us with such great love.

Yet, we got idiot preachers saying total garbage like, "If you preach that from behind the pulpit, you'll have a Church full of sin! They need to hear about breaking God's commandments! They need to hear about judgment of Hell! They need to be told all about the horror of Sin so we can scare them into Heaven!"

Um, NO! Not at all WHAT-SO-EVER!!!

It's the wife who says, "Dear, I'll always love you, no matter if you beat me, spit in my face, pull my hair, run around on me, say mean things to me. No matter what you say, there is nothing you can do to make me stop loving you."

Now, see the difference? At that moment, there is not a bone in that man's body that desires to do ANY harm to his wife.

And how much more Does God love on us? He gives us FREE Grace- that's worse than 'greasy' Grace isn't it? Take as much as you want!!!

If you understand Grace and how it came to be (Calvary's Holy Loving Sacrifice) you will not see a license to sin at all. What man thinks, "Hmm, my wife will love me no matter what. I think I'll beat her and cheat with others?"

That is all the time I have for this morning. I'll be posting tonight. Don't go in the Rapture w/o me, Shawn.

We are called to lift our eyes away from ourselves and look into the face of our Loving Savior. It is the the beauty of HIS holiness, HIS righteousness and HIS perfection that changes us. Looking upon our own failure and wretchedness and "trying" different things to "overcome", only reveals to us how impotent we are to change the inward. Oh, we may change the outward, to be sure, but then the subtle work of the devil will fill our heart with pride, self-assurance and self-justification.

Jesus Himself said, “Apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). It’s all Jesus, all Jesus, all Jesus. That’s how we entered the new life, that’s how we walk it, that’s how we are glorified and live for ever with Him.

It’s all of grace. All of it.

We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of our testimony. Our testimony is Him, all Him. It is not us. Our testimony is His testimony, JESUS. The testimony of who He is and what HE has done. Not our works of righteousness (self-discipline, fasting, etc) That is very Hindu-ish.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access by faith (the only thing that pleases God) into His grace. And this is the only thing we can stand in.

Faith, not works. You will forever be finding some terrible thing within you to fast about, to "try" to overcome. And as you "master" each sin in your life, the pride will grow inside you. This is the great "head fake" that the enemy does to us. He moves us away from beholding the Lord's beauty to beholding our failures and then moves us into subtle self-righteousness. That is why there are so many "character based" ministries today. They emphasize character and have many "gold nuggets" of teaching on how you can improve your character. It is nothing more than legal righteousness and not righteousness by faith. Many of the children grow up and become shipwrecked, in these families, because their life growing up was one of legalism and not all-consuming love for the Lord. There was no inward encounter with God, only outward obedience.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Foofee, look to Jesus, love Jesus. Concentrating on your sin and weakness, and trying to overcome them will only put you into a deeper and more dangerous bondage. One that will cause you to justify yourself before God.

Read Psalm 51 to see what David did when he fell into sexual sin and was confronted by God's prophet. Did he rely on his own strength, cleverness, discipline or did he go to God?

It agrees perfectly with James 4.

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Many take James 4 to mean that we need to do a lot of self-discipline but taking the NT in context, these things we know:

The way you resist the Devil, is by drawing near to God. The way that you cleanse your hands and purify your heart is by repentance which is drawing near to God. You must forsake pride to draw near to God. Drawing near to God shows that you are humbling yourself.

Notice that James 4 never tells us to try this or try that. To work, work, work, on the "easy" sins first and then the hard ones will go away.

Draw near to God. James 4 and Psalm 51 tell us how to.

Why?

Because you can do nothing apart from Him. Abide in Him, rest in His finished work.

If Sodom and Gomorrah repented (which acknowledges God through humility), God would have had mercy.

If Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of repenting, just used self-discipline to stop their sinful activities on the outside, which requires no acknowledgment of God or inward change, they would have still been destroyed.

Likewise, if you clean up your life by your efforts and discipline, will you be saved and what will you teach others?

Some men have great self-discipline and are not drawn to outwardly wicked sins (they are all wicked by the way). And because some of us have never participated in the classically wicked sins of the flesh, we could easily tend to think that we are something when we are not.

What is Jesus saying here?

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Your self-discpline and self-mastery over sin will only exalt you.

Great post restinhim, welcome to the forums!

There are many, many other verses that are life changing. I hope my efforts will grow some day into mature fruit. I have been looking to share these with you guys and gals all day long. All of what I will comment will not line up with everyone’s own theology but I think that what I have to say will certainly be a beautiful help to you Walk with God.

These are a short amount of Scripture that I believe will help get across what I mean about living by the Spirit of God rather than by use of the law. In no particular order, I give to you, The Word of God:

2 cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

How are we changed from one state to another? Progressive Sanctification at the same time, Sanctified already by Jesus and in God’s eyes. In other words, As wee see Jesus, lifted up, from one instance of Grace to the next, we are changed from the INSIDE out and then of into His Image -perfection. But the keys are, in seeing Jesus -the faultless Lamb, freely given to us and supernaturally -not by following our laws and routines of religion- we are changed into the same Image.

gal 2:20 My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

A slow motion view of what took place on Calvary. We are dead. What specifically? The need to provide for our own sins. No more self provided sacrifices and covering for sins and fig leaves and acts of contrition. Because all that is what is called the flesh. Jesus already provided. Is that called Jehovah Sid Kaneohe (God the Provider)?

But as we live with Faith in the Finished ...FINISHED Work of Calvary, it’s is His life that overrides our bad past of sin. Unbelief is the problem. Not eating too much candy or watching to much Baywatch. Those acts of sins in the plural are manifestations of a shifted objects of Faith. We are to behold Christ and all He has accomplished and freely given for us. We never address individual acts of sins by reading our Bible or fasting them out or praying them away or doing enough good acts to outweigh the bad. Both the good and the bad was called evil in the garden.

He says that he lives this earthly thing by trusting the Son of God. Not by continuing to keep the commandments... Jesus loved us and gave Himself -all of Himself. Eat the whole burnt offering.

gal 2:21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

Read that verse again or you will not understand what I’m about to say. If you try and conduct law for to keep sin and acts of sin down, then there was no need for Jesus to even come you romanistic-catholic! I have wonderful Catholic friends but God certainly does not appreciate the roman interwoven items they keep. It earns nothing with God. You say, Yes but we’re not Catlick! Oh, is that why you present law to keep law? Don’t you know there is no Power in the Law to Save? There is no Power in the Law to Sanctify? Apart from Jesus, all you have is a form of religion and a witchcraft because it is now your own ability to act right and keep something and earn a thing with our Lord Most High. So do not treat Grace as meaningless, it has more involvement in our lives than we know!

mt 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

This is Jesus Himself speaking. He says, “Hey protestants... don’t misunderstand the New Cov’t you claim to know so well! I came to keep the law that I might give you a Perfect Righteousness that you would not have to soulishly keep it! Because the Good you do have is not Good enough and is in fact, evil to my Father’s eyes! So I kept the Law as there is no sinful bent from the Fall in Me! Here you go freely take! Take it all! I lay me Life down for my friends!”

I get all excited when I see Jesus in Scripture. It lets me know who I am in Christ and all I have been freely given. It lets me know I am no longer under the curse of the LAW and I no longer have to live in fear of punishment and judgment. That was already done to Christ in my place on Golgotha.

The law and the Prophets testified of Christ. Yet, we claim we keep these on our own efforts. That frustrates the Grace of God. What use is it to pay all over for something already paid for? Don’t you know that coming under law always causes an outburst of sinful activity? A pastor ought to provide His Flock with Green Grass to Lay themselves down in. Not words of the law to keep and condemnation and death like it says in Scripture! “Hey sheep, eat this dirt and prove to God you love’em. Or you’ll not be His sheep anymore and He’ll throw you into hell!” and not ONE Word of the Sacrificial Death of out Lord Jesus the Great Shepherd.

as we’re presented with Jesus -who is Grace unto Grace/Faith unto Faith- we become more and more like Him. And eventually, you ‘ll notice sin just melting off of you and other activity dropping off and going away. And it wasn’t your efforts the whole time! We cannot post outside links but I do not think it would do harm to the forum rules if I told you a great source of Faith and Grace preaching. Actually, there are three different places I like to go. Paul White Ministries dot com and click at the right side of the page on a button labeled ‘Audio Sermons’ and look just a couple of messages down for one titled Restraint or Real Change. Listen through to the last 20 min as they are a real joy to hear. The other two links are called JSM dot org and you can listen live to wonderful music and teaching and some preaching. And lastly, a powerful site on soulish efforts of man and the true state of man w/o Jesus, is called emmanueltx dot com so click on the little button at the bottom of the graphic labeled listen online. Enjoy and happy reading.

rom 2:27 in fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it.

This verse displays to us that even the ‘elect’ of God’s Chosen People are wrong. If we can put God in a box and have Him all figured out and look down upon Him, we become then bigger than God. If Righteousness comes by the law then Jesus died for no reason. Do not insult God by slapping Him in the Face with your laws and self efforts! As well, where do you get the idea that you have a Power within yourselves to control sin? And where then does the ability come from to comprehend the Law? Not to mention, living it out? As if when you fail, you can cover it up? It is no surprise to God when you fail! It does not make Him angry! Denying the Son after a failure will result in frustrating the Graces of the God of all Creation but will not delete you from the Book of Life. Pleasing God by use of the Law never happens. He is ONLY looking for the Son. If He sees you at all, you’re dead. Get back in the coffin and let Jesus be your Life daily. Do not poke one finger out! Touching law as a means to Sanctify self is suicide Spiritually! We prove ourselves to be hypocrites when contemplating Law and Rules that we hold up higher that Jesus Himself.

rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Another really great, slow motion view of what took place on Calvary. We were (by Faith) planted into the Body of Jesus, died, buried and He did not stay dead but Resurrected. Now, if we were in Him at death and He is now at the side of the Father, where are we? Yet at the same time, we live in this earth yet. So if God sees us as In His Son, what is left for us to pay for? What can we possibly add to the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross? The old nature is dead, we be Alive to Jesus and through and because of Him. What ‘sin’ is so bad that Jesus had to die on the Cross? One that put us so contrary to God that He would be justified to condemn us for all eternity. You don’t know how long that really is folks. Yet, because He IS Love, it is a natural outflow of Him to send a Savior. That we would (in His eyes) be no more partakers of such an evil state. Thank you Jesus.

rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

A wonderful cross reference for us to see. See Jesus in Scripture and it Transforms us from the Inside. This is not referring to water baptism as some would think. Otherwise, 6:6 would have been worded different. See it now?

rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

My friend said, “They need to know that victory over sin requires the power of God, which only comes from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't honor faith in works, only faith in the Finished Work of Christ.” He is exactly right. The law here is not a rule to follow but rather a parameter set up in the portals of Glory. It’s a Spiritual Boundary that only the Son and all He is can inhabit. Now, we have been placed in Him that we be freed from all evil. How about if i sin a little preacher? Are you IN Him? Then God would have to go through His Son to judge you. And Jesus already was judged, making atonement once and for all. There will be no longer any need for another Sacrifice like it says in both Jude and Hebrews.

rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Now we see the Son in us as well. He in us, us in Him. Where is the Kingdom? Not floating around in the big blue sky, that’s for sure. The Kingdom is within men. John and later, Jesus Himself, said the the Kingdom is very near. Like the moon is near to the earth? NO! But because of the Righteousness of the Son, He can now legally dwell IN us! And then we IN Him! Hallelujah!

col 2:20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,

Does this need much explanation? By now, my reader friends, you ought to know better. But we human beings need to hear the Faith and Grace Message over and over until we believe it and get it in our spirit. We’re human beings, not human doings. Another man says it like this, “All my life I was told what to do but I was never told how to do the what to do.” Get it? Looking for rules to follow as boundaries is like a spiritual adultery as we already have a Law in Christ Jesus boundary. There is no need to set outside of that!

col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

So after reading this, you still want to think God wants you to keep the Law? or to use works to put down sin or the powers of sin? NO!!! How do we keep the Law? IN Jesus by Faith! Christ is the source and the Cross is the means. Christ is the source and the Cross is the means. Christ is the source and the Cross is the means. Got it? Sinking in? You gotta love this! We are law keepers because of His Grace.

Any attempt to keep law will result in guilt and condemnation. And a downward spiral results. And because of that guilt and condemnation, you’ll find yourself attempting to cover that up by more works. That when that doesn’t work, you add more works. And it continues to go on just like that. God does not want His children of Light to live in dark places of guilt and condemnation. Come out from those shadowy places! And live in the Life with Life more abundant!

Thinking of doing laws and works and rule and regulations to please God? I tell you, if you fail and feel bad about it, it is because you thought you could have done better. You still see yourself as a good person, only needing some of the Savior. We have it wrong in the Church. It does no good to please God with self to get closer to Him. We get closer to Him by acknowledging the the Savior and letting Him be our Propitiation and Substitute. Completely and totally... through the whole experience of our lives, not just when ‘we got it now God, thx’

gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

This clearly says that you cannot possibly use the Law as means of Righteousness.
There is NO life in the Law. We think that by being Law keepers then we are Holy and are Walking in the Spirit. It’s actually flesh! Walking in the Spirit is total Faith and Complete Trust in the Sacrifice of Christ- for Salvation and Sanctification! Sanctification is a topic not touched on much at all.

gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So Righteousness in our body has not perfectly come yet. But by use of The Faith, God is no longer angry at us. Cool huh? Some day it will come. Some might say, I don;t believe in the Rapture! Well, do you believe in the Resurrection? Well then, you do believe in the Rapture. like it or not- its the same event.

eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

How do you put on the New self? By pretending to put invisible clothing on in the morning when you roll out the bed? NO! Some uninformed preacher was or still is having his followers to ‘put on the clothing of the Spirit’ and I cry over the fact that this man thinks he is doing God a favor. He has his people weak in The Faith. They think their efforts will produce something. God is not an ATM. True Righteousness and Holiness are ONLY FOUND IN JESUS. And the access is placing Faith in His Finished Work. The reward is all of His Righteousness freely given. And our Lord already died, sealing His righteousness, so how can you mess up something you did not set up?

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

This very clearly shows us that attempts at law keeping, apart from being IN Jesus by Faith, is not a good idea. Our Righteousness is filthy, even if we did do something good. Faith bypasses all of our old attempts to keep law. It completely eliminates us from the game, that there would no longer be a need for us to work for our Sanctification. Repentance gets us the Kingdom. If we only use Jesus for the ‘hard parts’ of the law that we cannot do, we still do not make it. Repent from all self effort of living for God. There is no such thing as ‘I do some and God does the rest’ No, He does and did it all. Rest in that.

2tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For those who want to live the law, this is you. You want to appear like you’re Righteous by keeping law and doing works but a Truly Righteous person is Righteous because he or she is planted IN Jesus by Faith! You can have a form of god-hood but be dead in religion. having a form but doing it without the Power that is Only found IN and By being in Jesus will get you no where buddy.

2cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:

And this verse basically is my favorite of all these. It really lets us know the truth about law keeping and works-righteousness. It ends in death. It results in no fruits. Moses knew God would do something and He had Faith our Lord would send a wonderful Substitute that could Save. The people said, “we will keep it” and God never said the law was for them. It was for Jesus. He kept it. Now, our faces can legally shine bright and they never have to fade anymore! The Law is kept! No more need to produce a Righteousness for ourselves and works to stay Saved and Get Sanctification!

Thank you Jesus for letting me comment on your Scriptures and giving me the Light I currently now have. May I become more and more a reflector of your awesome Plan and Glory.

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/1/28 12:42:36

a person could go through all these, showing you what the Spirit application is but it would be like writing a commentary. I'll rather give some points to consider:

fleeing sins, we do so IN Jesus.

Sin does not reign any longer as we are IN Jesus.

We mortify the deeds through being IN Jesus.

We do not trust in the use of the flesh but we live by being IN Jesus.

see it yet?

All of your postings may not be directly containing law. however, implying perfection in the physical body is not possible. You attempt it and see how far you get. Submit to the Lord and repent of self and you will have your hunger and thirst for Righteousness filled.

Implying works by means of the flesh is death. I'm no longer arguing these things with people full of bias. I'm certainly no Spirit expert but I do know what Christ has done for me and how inadequate I am at keeping laws and doing any works-righteousness.

May the Lord Bless and show you the Light and Keep you in His Grace.

An observation I made upon reading this thread:

None of the scriptures posted by Jesus-is-GOD, ginnyrose, or Lysa contained any Law (in the biblical sense of the word). The New Testament truth about freedom from the Law does not conflict with their application.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus

Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Are you now made perfect by the flesh? Can you overcome by the flesh? Fasting, trying this or trying that?

Some men are very intelligent and extremely well disciplined and maybe have never dealt with the classically, wicked sins (all sin is wicked). But, until we come to the place in our lives where we actually see with our spiritual eyes that there is absolutely nothing we can do apart from abiding in Him, to conquer our fleshly desires, we will continue to invent great methods and formulas for living the Christian life. Paul says, He did not come with words of wisdom but with the power of God.

Ye must be born-again. This means you must die with Christ and be raised up with Him, in newness of life.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Please read Romans 6.

Particular key points:

You are dead to sin, how shall you live any longer in it?

You have been baptized into Christ's death.

Just as Christ rose from the dead you rose and should walk in newness of life.

Your old man was crucified with Him that the Body of Sin might be destroyed that henceforth you should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is free from sin.

Reckon yourself to be dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin reign in your body, by YIELDING your mind,will and emotions to God. Yield, abide in Him, put on Jesus Christ.

Sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under the law but under grace.

You are free from sin and now a servant of righteousness.

You can take all of man's wisdom and throw it in the trash can.

Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

spot on, knitefall, restinhim.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Who ever said you don't obey the Lord? He said love the Lord thy God with all.... and thy neighbor as thyself.

He commanded, Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The Holy Spirit told us to put on the Lord Jesus Christ and you won't fulfill the lusts of the Spirit.

And there are many more of these commands such as Abide in Me, Look unto Jesus, make straight paths for your feet, yield to God, do not turn away from Him that speaketh, let us have grace whereby we may serve God acceptably, walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Are you actually likening these commands of Jesus to Zac's "try this and try that"?

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/1/30 0:17:16

Zac began his message based upon this one Scripture -

Eze 16:49, 50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, "pride", "fulness of bread", and "abundance of idleness" was in her and in her daughters, "neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

So why is he wrong for suggesting that those who find themselves in -

- Pride

- Laziness

- Gluttony (love of good food) and

- Neglecting the poor and needy

Should -

- Begin first of all, by humbling yourself in all situations. Avoid all arrogance.

- Then begin to be hard-working and diligent in whatever you do.

- Then try fasting – avoiding food – once in a while.

- And fourthly, begin to think a little more about the needs of people around you and see how you can help them.

He ends this message with -

"We cannot overcome any sin without grace from God - but He gives His grace only to the humble; and He helps only those who are kind and helpful to others."

Which has Scriptural backing for each point. Like Matthew 25 and James 4:6.

[b]I'm not quite understanding why all of the uproar over this simple article but I believe it's touched some nerve - sadly enough.[/b]

God bless,
Lisa

Yes, it must seem like we are straining at gnats.

But everything must be Jesus. Everything we do to "improve" our situation must be a turning to Him. It is the heart that has gone astray. We must return with our whole heart in repentance and brokenness over our sin to God. You see, even a good sermon can cause us to go off just little at a time. Is there some truth to what he says? Sure. There always is. But he ended it rather anemically and sends us off to chase rabbits, overcome on our own and improve self. He did have one of his endings right, Humble yourself.

Consider:

Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

What did the Lord say? You have not returned to me. The person that Zac is talking about, only needs to "return to Him" with His whole heart, which is a turning away from everything else. This obviously implies repentance.

Zac should have just said, "Humble yourself and return to the Lord with all your heart". But then, he starts with the sacrifices.

Condider:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Sacrifices in the Old Testament are a picture of all our self-effort and good works, today.

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

How do we wash ourselves, make us clean? We go to the sacrifice. Jesus Christ. Cease to do evil - same as Romans 6. Yield yourselves to God and not to sin.

Well, that is my only problem with how the writer ends it. You can find scriptural backing for just about anything, but the whole counsel of God always shows us that first and foremost we have gone astray in our heart, God wants no sacrifices, they only clean up the outside and can never circumcise or purify the heart, this is an operation of the Spirit of God and so we must return to God with our whole heart in brokenness and repentance.

Because there is truth in his sermon there will continue to be debates about what he said and maybe we should move on.

Some of us like some preachers so much that we are willing to overlook "small things", but I think because they may be widely known teachers and many "young" eyes and ears are sitting in front of them as it were with mouth open for their daily feeding, teachers should be a little more careful.

I think knitefall would agree that you can have the last word.

I just want to say, that I did not refer to you as the one "straining at gnats". I said, "maybe it looks like we are straining at gnats".

His Peace to all.