Hebrews 1:2 question?

I started a study in Hebrews and so far have seen in Chapter One Christ is Highly exalted and proclaimed the Son of God above the Angels, I don't know the history of this but I am guessing this was to refute heresy that may of made Christ less than God. But this isn't really my question but it comes from Hebrews 1:2 "in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world."

"Though Whom also He made the World" this is what is confusing me or at least I don't quite understand what this means or is an implication of. The Whom that the author is talking about is Christ Jesus. ? Anyways it maybe one of those things that I am looking to closely at but perhaps not. Any insight or input is appreciated.

God Bless,
Matthew

It simply means that Jesus Christ was the agent if you will of creation. Just as the Spirit of God moved over the waters, Jesus was part of the creation of all things.

Wow that is kind of what I was thinking but wasn't sure just because of its shear awesomeness of that thought! Christ played a role not only in my Salvation but also in my Creation!

hi, when you study this you will notice that His is not in the original and has been added. God spoke to us in Son.the alpha and omega, the language of the Father, alpha beta.jimp

Brother jimp, Im not sure what you are trying to say, you probably spoke it just right but I am slow to comprehend sometimes. :)

The doctrine of the Trinity basically states that each member of the Godhead has had a role in the creation of the world. Basically, the Father established the plan, the Son being the Word of the Father brought the world into existence, and the Spirit executed what was spoken. Jesus Christ prior to His incarnation has eternally been the second member of the Godhead, and being God, thus created the world.

Comprende?

I do comprende I do! ITS A MIRACLE! ;) That is an awesome thought that looking at what scripture says appears to be accurate and true. I never thought about how you put it though each part working together like that, that was definitely helpful to my understanding!

jimp is pointing out Matthew, how "his" was added into the A.V. (King James Version) in that verse. So if we were to remove it from, and read it w/o that word, Hebrews 1:2 would more "technically" read, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by Son, whom he hath made heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."

According to Kenneth Wuest: "The fact that the article is absent before the word "Son," emphasizes character, nature. It speaks of the Son-relationship of the Messiah to God the Father. It speaks of the distinction that exists between the prophets as God's creatures used as instruments in His hands and the Son who by nature is Deity. The Son belongs to a different category. God spoke through One who is in Character a son." (Hebrews in the Greek New Testament, Kenneth Wuest, pp 34, Eerdmans Publishin Co; 1956)

Thank you for that Jeremiah very helpful, Do we know why His was added in?

Whenever a word is added in the A.V. it is an attempt to help with the fact that the sentence just simply does not translate word for word into English. We would never word a sentence that way. Greek grammar works way different than English. Greek, at least as much as I understand it, was a more precise language than ours is, as a result it is a complex process to translate its precision into our more obtuse and sloppy language.

It should be noted that "added" words in English are often heavily demanded by the grammar of the original Greek. Translation is an art and science. "His" would be strongly grammatically implied in this instance because of the form the Greek noun takes.

The same goes for Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

"THE" and "OF" are not in original Greek. It simply reads;
vbut by faith Jesus Christ. Also "justified by faith Christ".

The Same for Galatians 2:20; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

"I live by faith Son of God".

This is what the whole Plan of God is all about when it comes to Grace. The Father, Son relationship is the total of Grace. Without the Father Son relationship there could be no grace as we know it Know.

Ephesians 2:7-8 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

For Jesus Christ is;
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This is how God can look at us as sons. He birthed us in Christ Jesus by the Incorruptable Seed the Word of God Himself being born again in us.

Our relationship to the Son and the Father is the Same as the Pure Grace relationship The Son has with the Father.
"Our Father"

What great things God has done for us in Christ.

Ephesians 4:4-7 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" Col 1:27

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Phillip

"THE" and "OF" are not in original Greek. It simply reads;
vbut by faith Jesus Christ. Also "justified by faith Christ".

Words like "of" and "the" are not always in the Greek text in and of themselves. But the grammar demands the translation just the same, because of the casing of the noun, and other such grammatical contstructs. For example, some words are in a possessive case, and prepositions like "of" or "from" are required. Likewise, definite (and indefinite) articles are often missing, but are implied because the noun is clearly in the subjective case.

If you are thinking translation as simply taking a word in Greek, and turning it into something in English, you would have an improper understanding of how translation actually happens. This is why we should be very careful when using something like a Strong's Concordinance. It doesn't give you a fuller picture of what is happening grammatically, and in Greek, what is happening grammatically can tell you more on how to translate a word that simply the word by itself. Translation must be done in context!

There is a great danger in assuming the translators were wrong or that they "added" a word simply because it is italics. Before making such a dangerous assumption, you should probably actually consult the actual Greek text itself, and translate it for yourself. There is a danger in removing the word because you think you see some special meaning.

The reading "justified by faith Christ" would actually be a poor translation.

I guess, it is better not to live with one translation or verse alone.

Heb 1:2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; (Young's Literal Translation).

Indeed, if you cannot study Greek, consulting multiple translations is a very solid practice. And even if you can read Greek, consulting multiple translations is still a very solid practice.

Quote:

"The reading "justified by faith Christ" would actually be a poor translation."

Not if the faith "of" Christ which by transulators collective agreement, by implication is translated "of". Which self works salvation cannot agree with, they prefer "in", which changes belief in Christ as mans faith, which cannot work and has never worked when it comes to "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", which is of God totally and completely. "No one can come to me (Christ)unless the Father send him."

"Faith Christ" is from One that saves by Grace through Faith and that not of yourselves.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote: "The reading "justified by faith Christ" would actually be a poor translation." Not if the faith "of" Christ which by transulators collective agreement, by implication is translated "of". Which self works salvation cannot agree with, they prefer "in", which changes belief in Christ as mans faith, which cannot work and has never worked when it comes to "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", which is of God totally and completely. "No one can come to me (Christ)unless the Father send him." "Faith Christ" is from One that saves by Grace through Faith and that not of yourselves. In Christ: Phillip

What Phillip says here makes a very good point. Whenever one language is translated into another there are assumptions and decisions that the translators must make. I am not even close to an expert in the Greek language. I really know very little about it. But what I do know is that scripture was meant to be interpreted or read through the leadership and guidance of the Holy Spirit and that scripture is meant to be its own commentary. If we put into practice these two rules as we study scripture, we will be able to understand scripture correctly, better even than someone who is not born again and who has is an expert in the Greek language. It is because when we rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal scripture to us we are obtaining our wisdom from the author, and not exclusively from the language itself. Being able to study using Greek or Hebrew lexicons and having a basic working knowledge of the languages helps for sure, but if there is something you don't understand simply put that thing before the Lord in prayer and keep studying the Word. God has a way of leading you eventually to scripture that serves as a commentary on that which you are reading, and the result is revelation.

By the way, I have really enjoyed the discussion of these verses as I have read the thread.

Which self works salvation cannot agree with, they prefer "in", which changes belief in Christ as mans faith

In a word, that is simply not true.

Hey mguldner I am moved by your enthusiasm as you dig in to this wonderful book. I can't express my feelings in English, how much the book of Hebrews has impacted my love for Jesus. I am praying that God will "enlarge your heart" because you are going to need more room!

Ruf

Quote:

"In a word, that is simply not true."

Which is it in your understanding, "OF" or "IN".

Faith of Christ, it is His faith in us unto salvation.

Faith in Christ it is our faith that gets salvation.

We must have the Faith of Christ for us to renew our minds the knowing of our Faith in Christ.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Ro 3:22 righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all, and upon all those who believe: for there is no difference;

Ro 10:6 But the righteousness of faith speaks thus: Do not say in thine heart, Who shall ascend to the heavens? that is, to bring Christ down;

Ga 2:16 but knowing that a man is not justified on the principle of works of law [nor] but by the faith of Jesus Christ, *we* also have believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified on the principle of [the] faith of Christ; and not of works of law; because on the principle of works of law no flesh shall be justified.

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ, and no longer live, *I*, but Christ lives in me; but [in] that I now live in flesh, I live by faith, the [faith] of the Son of God, who has loved me and given himself for me.

Ga 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come to the nations in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ga 3:22 but the scripture has shut up all things under sin, that the promise, on the principle of faith of Jesus Christ, should be given to those that believe.

Ga 3:26 for ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus.
Eph 4:13 until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at [the] full-grown man, at [the] measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ;

Php 1:27 Only conduct yourselves worthily of the glad tidings of the Christ, in order that whether coming and seeing you, or absent, I may hear of what concerns you, that ye stand firm in one spirit, with one soul, labouring together in the same conflict with the faith of the glad tidings;

Php 3:9 and that I may be found in him, not having my righteousness, which [would be] on the principle of law, but that which is by faith of Christ, the righteousness which [is] of God through faith,

It is His Faith in us that we have faith in Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Our faith is of Christ and it is in Him.

Quote:Phillip

"""It is His Faith in us that we have faith in Him."""

Quote:Jimmy
""Our faith is of Christ and it is in Him.""

Sounds like we are in complete agreement.

In Christ: Phillip

Sorry y'all but this is absurdly confusing to me. I know some of the verses say,"faith of Christ". I know this may sound foolish and I must be misunderstanding but is it being said that Christ has faith? That would prompt me to ask some more questions if that was the line of reasoning.

I know this may sound foolish and I must be misunderstanding but is it being said that Christ has faith? That would prompt me to ask some more questions if that was the line of reasoning.

Indeed, Christ had so much faith that when He was dying on the cross He cried out, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit." If you want faith, that is the greatest example of faith ever demonstrated in all the Scriptures. The faith of the Son of God which existed even on the cross, believing God for resurrection even in the face of annihilation. Indeed, the "hall of fame of faith" chapter of Hebrews 11 doesn't end with Hebrews 11. It ends with Jesus Christ in Hebrews 12, who is held up as the ultimate example of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross and despised the shame.

Lord, give us that faith!