"Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson

Thank you so much, Sister, for posting these. I am in wholehearted agreement even BEFORE I read them. Brother Wilkerson is credible because of where and how he has ministered for the past 50 years - he is not sitting in his armchair in affluent America. Oh that more preachers would speak out - I fear Christendom in America is far down on the slippery slope....

In Romans 14, Paul says drinking wine falls under the area of Christian liberty. About everybody in the Old Testament drank wine, except for those under Nazerite vow. In the New Testament, Jesus drank wine and did so enough that some falsely accused him of being a drunkard. Wine was a part of the Lord's Supper, and some drank so much that they sinned and got drunk.

The idea that drinking alcohol is somehow forbidden in Scriptures is just plain wrong. It's no more sinful to drink alcohol than it is to eat a Big Mac at McDonalds. The problem is, however, when one lacks self-control, and over indulges. When you drink too much, you are a drunk. When you eat too much, you are a glutton. But eating and drinking in and of themselves, are perfectly fine. Just don't do too much of either.

That is the plain teaching of Scripture from cover to cover.

And not to slam him, but Wilkerson is just plain wrong about Jesus turning water into wine. When Jesus turned water into wine, the Jews there acknowledge that this was, "the good stuff," and praised the host for his unusual custom of saving the best wine for last. For the custom was, you serve the good stuff first, and the cheap stuff last. Indeed, that is how many people still drink today. You start off with the stronger stuff and when it's done it's work, you just go cheap.

Very butchered exegesis with extreme personal stories. I know it might be hard for Wilkerson to believe, but you can drink in moderation and never get drunk or become an alcoholic.

by KingJimmy...I know it might be hard for Wilkerson to believe, but you can drink in moderation and never get drunk or become an alcoholic.

KJ, my Grandmother which would now be about 118 years old, and the most Godly woman I have ever known till today, used to have a glass of wine every night before bed, she lived to be 99. The word Alcohol to "most" Christians seems to be a vulgar word, I personally don't drink, but it's just because I could never adapt a taste for any of it, but I did smoke pot until 1995 and gave that up. It's called moderation, I sometimes wished I could adapt a taste to even wine, because I have many days I need something to take the edge off, and also it's rough out yonder going through life stone cold sober. I wished all us Christians could be more like Jesus, he just told the woman at the well, go and sin no more, could you just imagine what a today's Christian might have said to the woman after finding out about her past? maybe not in front of her but the gossip after-wards we could only imagine.

by KingJimmy And not to slam him, but Wilkerson is just plain wrong about Jesus turning water into wine.

So many Pastors now days are more vocal on "opinions" this is why I always carry my sword everywhere I go, because I have had many "Christians" come up to me and say my Pastor said......I said he did? ok let me check this out in my Bible and see "exactly" what God said. Any real Christian will always check their Bible if they are not sure, and then you have the ones that are satisfied hearing what was said regardless of the truth, because it fits their beliefs.

Somebody at my work gifted me with a bottle of champagne for New Years. I gladly took it. I don't know when I'll ever drink it. One day I suppose, should I have company and a very special reason to do so. I'm not a big fan of alcohol myself. I'm very selective about what I drink, and when I do, it's usually only one glass-- at the most two. But having served alcohol before in a restaurant, and knowing something of the science of it, I'm also very aware of how to drink it very slowly, and I always eat something with it.

If you drink a glass over one hour, and have something to eat, you will avoid even getting a "buzzed" feeling, let alone drunk. I seldom drink, but I've had enough to know that if you do get drunk, it's because you either are completely oblivious to responsible alcohol consumption, or you deliberately chose to get drunk. And usually, it's the latter. It's like beign a glutton. You KNOW when you are full, and when you should stop eating.

Not to boast in my Christian liberty or offend my brethren, but frankly, after a long hot day of work during the summer, there is nothing like coming home once and a while, and having an ice cold beer or chilled glass of wine. And for the record, wine is a lot stronger than beer in alcohol content. You can usually drink two beers for every glass of wine.

But again, all according to their own conscience. I would never encourage anybody to drink unless they really know what they are doing, and geniunely like what they drink.

My PERSONAL conviction is that Christians should not drink. If only to prevent others from stumbling. If someone asks if we have alcohol in our fridge we should be able to say no. Alcohol has destroyed so many lives it's foolish to mess with. Many are lax in their own judgment of moderation and its easy to self-medicate in a moment of depression or weakness. That said, this line of thought could also apply to the internet etc. So it remains a matter of conscience.

There were two types of wine used in Bible times and one of them was essentially grape juice. This is explained by Greek writers of the time period who detail the wine-making process and differentiate between the two Greek words for wine. That said, Jesus did produce the hard stuff.

My PERSONAL convictions and advice would be that everyone should abstain from alcohol, but that is my opinion not a hard and fast discernment from the heart of the LORD. I know a number of Christians who drink, but almost all of them have over indulged at one point or another (I witnessed a number of them do so). Drunkenness is the work of the devil. A drink is not worth the risk.

There were two types of wine used in Bible times and one of them was essentially grape juice. This is explained by Greek writers of the time period who detail the wine-making process and differentiate between the two Greek words for wine.

Just out of curiosity for personal study, could you please point me to a scholarly resource to back this common claim up. I know it is often claimed, but I've yet to actually see proof of this claim. Because it is my understanding all grapes will ferment over time. Various processes are introduced to modify this of course... but the end thereof is always fermintation to various levels.

Much thanks.

Dear Saints,

We are already treading in areas where our beloved apostle instructed us not to go. We need to understand and heed his caution "...but not unto doubtful disputations." The Greek word dialogismos means to dialogue through a matter in an attempt to come to a conclusion. Paul is warning against these type of dialogues on such matters. Instead he gives this clear instruction "Do you have faith have faith unto God".

We tread on very thin ice to think our "personal opinion" is helpful. If one is sharing his opinion with others - is it truly "personal" anymore? The prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself, whereas the fool delights in airing his opinions - especially the "personal" ones.

makrothumia

I will get back to you on this. I have an article on it, but I have to dig it up. It contained scholarly citations and references, but while it was heavily anti-wine, the information it presented merely indicates that there were two types, without an entirely accurate way to discern which type is being talked about when.

by flameoffire I will get back to you on this, the information it presented merely indicates that there were two types.

I believe you, I know there were two kinds some as grape juice, and this scripture pretty much tells bout the alcohol version."Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit." Ephesians 5:17-18 (NKJV)
As long as I don't have a 300# Pastor, that eats 5...five course meals a day, telling me not to consume alcohol, I am ok with that, just don't be a hypocrite, because "most" everything is ok in moderation. I guess you could relate drunkenness to food also, you might feel ok, but your belly might feel drunk. lol

We tread on very thin ice to think our "personal opinion" is helpful. If one is sharing his opinion with others - is it truly "personal" anymore? The prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself, whereas the fool delights in airing his opinions - especially the "personal" ones

I apologize; I may have posted foolishly. My hope was to bridge a gap by illustrating that this is a matter of conscience and describing the reasons for my own conviction on the matter. I did think it would be useful which might have been foolish or proud. Paul does give his "opinion" in regards to some matters in his letters stating that he did not have a command from the LORD (1 Corinthians 7:25). My earnest desire was not to contribute to division, but to contribute to understanding, which was one of the reasons I heavily qualified what I said. Thank you for your rebuke. I will earnestly pray about the wisdom or foolishness of what I posted previously.

Thank you for your gracious reply. I honestly did not have your post in mind for your post was graciously written and your intent to insure your thoughts were limited in scope were clear enough. I was seeking to capitalize on the word "personal" and did not mean to draw upon your use of the word in a way of reproof. Your humble response shows me you were not in need of reproof in this matter.

This topic simply provides a wonderful opportunity for us to learn not to be drawn into attempts to "convince" (latin for conquer with) others on matters where we have received instruction to not enter into dialogue. We must have faith that the Holy Spirit has been sent to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.

Thank you, makrothumia. You have been gracious. I should still be a slower to share my opinions.

I hesitate to reply because it seems that those who desire to live a holy and set-apart lifestyle, get trounced on on this site. I do not have the gift of debate. Nor do I have the time for the lengthy posts that so many seem able to do. But on reading the 2 Wilkerson articles originally posted, I have to say that I still whole-heartedly agree. I would be one to be jumped on for my "legalistic" stance here on this forum. However I am 58 years old, and I have walked with the Lord for 31 of those years. God HAS given just plain wisdom and common sense to people. Not to mention that there were at least 7 or 8 Scriptures quoted in the Sipping Saints article. The Holy Spirit in me tells me that in most every case drinking is wrong. I will not take on the 118 year old godly grandmother. There are many things that are spiritually discerned. And two points that would be in favor of avoiding alcohol would be 1)not causing a weaker brother to stumble (I would say there are MANY weaker brothers in our society with relation to drinking), and 2)also the point about avoiding even the appearance of evil. I know even as an unsaved young person in high school, I was SO disappointed to see the pastor of our youth group walking out of a liquor store with a bag - it just did not seem to "fit" with his station in life, or godly living. As I said, I do not have the gift of debate. But I have to wonder if so often in our culture, what used to be called "holiness" is now called "legalism", and if that is not the result of our depraved human nature that just does not want to be told what to do. Maybe, just maybe, many of us believers are desensitized by our culture that has such a heavy emphasis on grace. Please don't attack me - I am only sharing my heart, and I have prayed before I push "submit"....I respectfully disagree with those who say drinking for the Christian is just fine.

mama27 I respectfully disagree with those who say drinking for the Christian is just fine.

mama27, I would like to ask you a question, how many times have you seen a supernatural healing in person? Me personally I have never witnessed one, but I know and believe they happen. Here is my point, unless God decides to supernaturally heal or deliver us from our illnesses or bad habits after accepting him into our lives, we are still work in progress. We all must be real careful when we see Christians doing things that we may not agree with, unless you know their life story, because God may still be working on them. Matter fact he is working on all of us, "NONE" of us will be perfected until God calls us home. You said you fully disagree with those that say drinking is fine for the Christian, so are you telling me that the next day/month after someone accepts Christ in their life, that they don't fit in your world of thinking if they are still drinking? How do any of us know what is going on in anyone's life unless we have personally known this person for many years? For the record I am not condoning alcohol, matter fact if you read my post I said I personally don't drink, but I know Christians that are "work in progress" that do. Unless we are supernaturally healed or delivered immediately, we are considered work in progress, and we as Christians should not Judge these folks. Did Jesus "Judge" the woman at the well? I don't believe he did, he just told her go and sin no more. If we disagree with those who say drinking for the Christian is just fine, we should also disagree that, eating to much,spending to much,to much makeup,to much work, to much Judging, to much internet, to much exercise, is also wrong. I know you won't like this scripture, but God said it I didn't, 1 Timothy 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)Ephesians 5: 18 also refers to such a condition, that a person should avoid overusing wine to the extent that they would get drunk, it does not say a glass of wine every now and then they are wrong and will be cast into the lake of fire..

I knew I shouldn't have stepped into this....OF COURSE I AM NOT SAYING THAT!!! Of course we are ALL a work in progress. I personally have a problem with gluttony. However I am thin, and no one on earth would know it. But God knows it. I do not know HOW you got from my post that I am JUDGING ANYONE....I am NOT. I would love the social drinker, I would love the drunkard, I would love the drug abuser, I would have a harder time with it, but by God's grace I would love the porn addict, or the homosexual. Sin is sin in God's eyes. But when I read the Wilkerson articles, I felt that he was taking on a culture that has been on a slippery slope AWAY FROM HOLINESS for a long time. As well he should, and well should any Spirit-filled preacher who loves the Lord. Listen to a Keith Daniel message (I'm sorry I do not know which one) where he quotes the godliest man he ever knew (and I personally believe Keith Daniel to be one of the godliest men I have ever known)....He tells how this godly man from South Africa, Will MacFarlane is speaking. And someone who came to the meeting is standing at the back of the church and spouts out, "Is smoking wrong?". And Keith Daniel reports that this godly man who he never heard raise his voice, THUNDERED back to the man, "You KNOW it's wrong!!". Now is there a verse directly in the Bible that says, "Thou shalt not smoke?" I don't know of one. But there are principles that God gives us. And there are many verses speaking against strong drink, some of which were mentioned in the Wilkerson article. I do not have a problem with the verse you quoted because as you say, God said it. Maybe it applies to the 118 year old grandmother. But I do not think it aptly applies to social drinking.

I am sorry I spoke. I don't feel you were hearing my heart. The same thing happened to me when I spoke on the recent music thread against CCM. I was jumped on and basically called a legalist. I cannot argue my points. I have a lot of life going on right now, and I am not a theologian (who by the way, don't agree among themselves). Perhaps that is to my fault. But I KNOW what is right in my heart.

I believe it would be best if I only pray for the prayer requests that are brought up, and not comment on the issues. I unashamedly take a stand for holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Yes - we are all a work in progress. But I believe the culture has severely "dumbed down" the Christians.

mama, no harm no foul, I am not upset at you, and basically when I said you, I meant any Christian. This is just a debate and as we all know debate welcome opinions, right? I totally respect your views, and I am not Judging your views. We all, even Keith Daniel's have our personal views or opinions, but ultimately we must go with what the Word of God say's, I think we both can agree on that.

I think this might be a good scripture for this debate. Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Yes, we must go with the Word of God. And I will stick to praying and not speaking.....

I have attended get togethers with saints celebrating God and worshipping Him in wonderful fellowship. I noticed on one occasion a few that would not partake of the Lord's Supper because the blood was represented by wine instead of grape juice. What a sad thing it is to not partake of something so wonderful over an issue of an aged grape. We are not talking about social drinking or the abuse of food or drink, scripture could not be more clear on an issue. So what are we debating? We are talking about how far this thing can go when one sees righteousness in those things that are not considered sin regarding participation or no participation. Also regarding consumption or no consumption. Regarding whether their hands are washed or not washed. When did that which was so clear stop being clear? Wasn't it clear regarding what goes into one's mouth in regard to defilement? Isn't it the mind and will that sets out to do that which defiles one. How much clearer can it be? We have so many examples and instruction in scripture yet we hold to that one thing that keeps rearing its head because it is taken out of context, and for what reason?.

So the question is will it cause a brother to stumble?
Is it not strange that in some countries it won't. How peculiar is that? So it's bound to geography? One can stumble over here but not over there? Isn't it odd that this was not the question in the early church? It was not the wine or other such drinks of alcholic nature. It was the abuse. I may drink a bottle of wine a year. I may drink 10 beers a year. I would sin if I drank them all at one sitting. That requires no great understanding. What is so wrongly presented is that somehow abstinence from certain things, whether that be drink, dance, spitting, shopping on Sunday, etc.... adds to one's righteousness. If we go down that road we are certain to find the things that we partake of that add to our righteousness as well. It is a dangerous road. One adopts this wrong interpretation of causing a brother to stumble and does little injury to the brother they rob of their liberty, but a great injury to themselves by the promotion of false righteousness as well as what that teaches others.

Concerning Idols and eating food sacrificed to them: If one loves the Lord and has come out from false Gods to the truth of the one true God whom they give everything up for, yes it would be difficult to see brothers partaking of that sacrificed flesh. Not that the brothers are participating in the sacrifice for they know there are no other gods but the one true God. It is the sensitivity of the new one in Christ that would be so offended by what that sacrifice represented. Can we not see the mind of these wonderful immature saints forsaking all they knew to have to deal with the abominable gods being given consideration over the God that they so dearly love. To bear that the meat was to honor what is an abomination to this new found love(God). That God is totally shunned and neglected for these statues made by mens hands. That this is robbery of the likes that go beyound description. Bless the hearts of these beuatiful and new children of the God of all creation.

So I would do these dear brothers and sisters who have long since passed (possibly due to death by persecution) an injustice to make an issue of a food group when their concern was the out right rebellion against the Lord in their new found discernment.

I will not mock the beauty of their immature and yet pure discernment, over what has been made a rediculous issue of religious culture that was dealt with clearly in scripture and will only serve to lead me to hesitate every time I reach for the cough syrup.

By the way I thank God for David Wilkerson

I believe that the principle taught in 1 Corinthians 8 concerning eating meat sacrificed to idols applies to this issue of drinking very well. In that chapter you have a conflict between those who were more or less ignorant and those who were more or less selfish.

Paul seems to sum up the conflict by saying that it's true that you have this higher knowledge and liberty to eat this meat but, notice what he then says. He encourages them to move up from their selfishness to a higher plane where they choose not to take their liberty from a heart of love.

The same principle can be found in chapter 9 where Paul talks about the rights that he has to be compensated or to have a family, etc... But then he drops the bomb in verse 12, "If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ." All Paul is concerned about is Christ's rights in him.

You can live on the "lawful" plane, claiming your rights, and your conscience won't get at you, but there is a higher plane the Spirit seeks to bring us to.

Also, here is something for your consideration that Paul West posted here some time ago in another thread about drinking;

The infamous gang here in America, the Mara-Salvatrucha 13, only lets its members go free if they become real, born-again Christians. Otherwise, the only way out of the gang is through death. But that's not it. They then secretly check up on the Christian ex-gang members to make sure they're "walking the walk" and are the real deal. This is done both in prison and on the streets. If the so-called "Christian" is later seen smoking a cigarette or drinking or doing drugs, he or she is executed. I'll let this speak for itself, as it is quite interesting considering the nature of the topic of this thread.

In Christ,

Ron

It would do everyone in this thread well, I think, to heed the wisdom of Makrothumia. Amen to your post as well, Everest.

We need a revival of true holiness that does not make excuse for sin. I agree with you mama. Alcohol or "spirits" is not the Holy Spirit. Why would anyone take something into their body that alters their minds and finally "stingeth like an adder"?

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
"Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?

Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Proverbs 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

Proverbs 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

Proverbs 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again."

This really is the final word on the subject:

Romans 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

Eating meat or drinking wine may or may not cause your brother to stumble. If you know your brother has a problem with you "eating meat" OR "drinking wine," don't do it around him or flaunt your liberty in the issue.

Romans 14:22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

As I read this thread it kind of peaked my interest, I use to be "Anti Alcohol" person and for myself I am still BUT I found in scripture that as some have already pointed out there is nothing forbiddening Alcohol but most certainly Drunkenness.

Look at wine and its used to describe and compared to some of the most beautiful things in Scripture, Solomon describes the Love of God as Better than Wine. Either that love isn't that impressive or Wine is an awesome thing to compare that awesome love to. We always look to the negative.

At Pentecost the 120 were accused of being drunk, why? because they had been Filled with the Spirit and were not only Speaking in many languages but were Joyful in doing so.

Paul tells Timothy, 1st Timothy 5:23 "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." Wine was and can still be used to aid the body, I have met many people that have had doctors prescribe a small glass of wine to their patients to help them relax and recieve aid from its properties.

Again I use to be a extremist when it came to alcohol and drinking but looking at the Bible exegetically we see it can have its advantages, people in Russia drink a small shot of Vodka everyday and they live to be the oldest generally up in the 100's.

KJ hit the nail on the head when he said the word "Moderation" Alcohol can be good but without Moderation it will lead to drunkenness.

Praise and glory to Him for this awesome clarification. Praise God!!!

We are numb as to what other believers endure around the world when they suffer. We read about it and we comment on how awful it is, but we are "sipping saints", we don't feel their pain, it's water off a ducks back, it doesn't penetrate our soul, we are selfish! As "Sipping Saints" we look, and continue on our merrily way.

We need to shake ourselves from the spirit of this age. We need to get reconnected to God's flow and really love our Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

We can go with what is on the surface and talk about the wine, or we can go further into the deeper recesses and draw out the hidden truth, the real truth that points the light at us and to show us that we are not an island and that we should not live unto ourselves.

Amen, this very much spoke to me

"Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson. I think just the title of this thread could possibly cause some confusion. I personally would like to see some Pastors work on cleaning up their own backyards, then maybe they would not be having to have sermons on "Sipping Saints" after all if the sheep are failing, is it the sheep's fault or the Shepherd's or both? If it's the Pastors fault, maybe they should be ministering on "Slipping Pastors". Once again in case some miss this, I don't drink period, and I am not condoning drinking, but we all must clean our own backyards, before we will ever get the respect due to us. I am not calling out any Pastor, but for some odd reason, there are a lot of saints now days talking about a lot of different Pastors, I wonder why? just read the paper.I know there are still some good and sincere Pastors out there, well maybe the good ones need to have more Pastors Conferences and start holding some of these pastors accountable. We must start at the top with our leaders, to fix the issues the Church is having.

Here is a scriptual answer for you:

Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. -1 Timothy 3:1-3

Overseer = NO WINE (not given to wine)

In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.

In Christ,
Earl J

I went through a time where I thought I should be allowed to "drink" and ended up backslidden and drinking myself to sleep for over two years. But that is just me! I've only met a very few in my 52 years that can actually have a drink and it not mean anything to them, they can milk it through an entire evening; but that definitely wasn't my case.

But today, praise the living God it's not that "I can't drink" or be around alcohol; I've finally accepted that for the calling God has called me to...enjoying a drink is not included as part of it.

It doesn't matter how a person interprets the Bible, if one truly believes that being able to enjoy a few drinks is part of the calling God has called them to; then I guess that person will keep trying to convince other's that it's ok!!

It's not about "US" and what we want; it's about God and what He wants for us and what we are willing to sacrifice for Him on soooooo many levels in our life; I feel that alcohol is just one of those levels; but I might be wrong.

God bless,
Sister Lisa

A new title for this Forum: "Doubtful Disputations"!

by dspks A new title for this Forum: "Doubtful Disputations"!

You mean "only" this thread? I think this could apply to 95% of them here if this was what Paul was saying. He admonished Christians to "get along" with one another in the Church, and not to engage in "doubtful disputations", or not to pass judgment on disputable matters of opinion, matters about which the opinions of one another may differ, well there goes the neighborhood.

post removed

The "only" absolute, true, infallible, all knowing, Shepherd I know is Jesus Christ, he is my Shepherd, that has brought "billions" out of addiction and bondage for over 2000 yrs. There is not even one person on earth that could even come close to compare, I don't care what they have done or who they are, the almighty, is the king of kings and lord of lords and he and he only alone deserves all the Glory, we deserve "NOTHING". Let Jesus Christ be your Shepherd,you can never go wrong. I am sorry, but I get a little upset when someone boasts about any Pastor, Isaiah 64:6 But we are "all" as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

A dear brother from our church said once that one of the reasons he doesn't drink is that he doesn't want to invest a penny into the alcohol industry by buying a bottle of whatever it could be.He said-alcohol did so much damage to God's creation and i don't want to promote it further buying alcohol for the money that God gave me.Just another thought on this subject.
Non-drinking brother from a Russian background,in Christ,Yuri.

No one is exalting any man - not David Wilkerson, Keith Daniel, or anyone else. You are absolutely right in what you say about Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ still chooses to work thru human beings today. And as His followers, we are responsible for our personal testimony.

mama27 No one is exalting any man - not David Wilkerson, Keith Daniel, or anyone else. You are absolutely right in what you say about Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ still chooses to work thru human beings today. And as His followers, we are responsible for our personal testimony.

mama great post! but I did read were someone here was kinda/sorta exalting David Wilkerson. Their statement 'should" have read like this "Jesus Christ through David Wilkerson" have brought people out of bondage of drugs and alcohol, remember our words are very important and we need to be very careful, to "GOD" and "GOD" alone goes the Glory. I know it's hard for some of us to remember this, but "WE" deserve nothing. I say this to myself many times a day, just so I remember who does deserve it all.

Well if I was one of them, please forgive me. I know that I did say that Keith Daniel was one of the godliest men I have ever met. And I have heard him preach in person probably half a dozen times, plus have conversation with him, plus watch him do Q & A sessions with young people. In my humble opinion, what qualifies a man as godly is probably foremost (among many things) his humility and acknowledgement that he is NOTHING without Christ. He has also said that he went many years before God could use him until as he said, "God knew that I would not touch the glory." I do not have personal knowledge of David Wilkerson other than what I have read of him and sermons I have heard over the decades. But I believe there is much testimony to the countless souls that he, being used of God, helped set free of addictions. It is because of his decades of experience, much more than you and I have, that I think qualifies him to speak to the Church on the subject. You are right - we must carefully weigh our words.

I am sorry if I caused any confusion here, my posting is done on this thread. My message was, to God and God alone goes the Glory, "we" no matter who we are deserve nothing, we are all equal in God's eyes, he can't love us any more or any less. You know the really sad thing is, this is what the world is coming to, but it's according to the Word of God.
God Bless
To God Goes The Glory!
Mr. Bill