music

Does anyone know of any christian "screamo-type" bands?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a screamo-type band?

Do they scream a lot?

christian "screamo-type" bands

Sounds like an oxymoron.

Check out Red, Skillet, Day of Fire (definitely their first CD). These may be what you are looking for.

God bless you,
Lisa

Check out Relient K they have some harder stuff and also some softer stuff that sounds pretty nice. Also Thousand Foot Krutch their older stuff, Pillar, Twelve Stones is a good one as well. I am not 100% on screamo but check them out on Youtube to see a variety. If you are looking for a Punkish sound then Relient K would get that sound quality for you especially their older stuff.

Hmmm

If you are a bit like me and more "old school" with leanings toward classic rock style sounds then there are a couple of screamo bands that mesh those styles for a really unique sound of their own. I am aware of a few of those bands that also have excellent testimonies and are lyrically great. A few I have enjoyed are War of Ages, Maylene and the Sons of Disaster (although Maylene also does historical stories from their region put to their music as well), and Mortification. Some of Mortifications lyrics are very outstanding works IMHO. I will post a few as examples....

BATHED IN BLOOD

Words & Music by Jayson Sherlock of Mortification

Blood poured out for you
Blood poured out for me
The blood of Christ that is
The blood that set us free

Blemished we are no more
Cleansed as white as snow
Redeemed by the sacrifice
Almighty power you know

Death has been destroyed
It has been overcome
Complete annihilation
By the Holy One

You can now enter
Into God's kingdom
Do it before you die
Now is the time

[Eph 1:7, Col 1:14, Isaiah 1:18,Eph 1:7, Luke 12:32]

ANCIENT PROPHECY

Behold the ancient scripture brought forth a prophecy
Revealed in the testament of old for all mankind to
see

The prophet Isaiah foretold long ago
The coming of a man who would heal their land

He assumed a servents nature written in Isaiah 53
He grew in wisdom and stature
Healed many and set them free

Torment and pain gripped the land
Desperation of release grew strong
The prophet saw the time was near
Impending deliverance for which they longed

The prophet Isaiah foretold long ago
Bloodied crucifixion would bring forth redemption

Behold the prophecy revealed before you
Testifies of blood spilt from butchered arteries
Mangled beyond human likeness
Shredded meat hanging from his skeletal cage
This Blood spraying from a mass of twisted flesh
Brings forth redemption to partake you must receive
Do it now before you die or pay the price
Make a step toward God or be destroyed

Surely He hath borne our griefs, weakness and distress
And carried our sorrows and pain
Yet we ignorantly considered Him stricken
Smitten by God and afflicted
But He was wounded for our transgressions
He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities
The chastisement needed to obtain peace and well-being
For us was upon Him and with the lashings and torment
That butchered Him we are healed and made complete

He assumed a servants nature written in Isaiah 53
He grew in wisdom and stature
Healed many and set them free

Ancient writings formed on parchment conceived
Beyond the realm of time
Fulfillment yet to be achieved time
Unfolds to reveal completion

The prophet Isaiah foretold long ago
Blood justification
Spiritual completion
This Blood spraying from a mass of twisted flesh
Brings forth redemption to partake you must receive
Do it now before you die or pay the price
Make a step toward God or be destroyed

[Isaiah 53:4-5]

As I parent I am pretty happy when I hear my kids screamoing the lyrics along with these songs. I can't count the times it has opened doors for my kids to share their faith with their classmates. Not everyones preferred style, I know, but there is no question about the crystal clear message they are portraying.

Ahaha this song can prefer to one movie with Vinie Johnes when he said "who the bloody are ya" Why is there so much blood?

To an extent yes. Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

Sory happened to see about the music on screamo, just wanted to say If I could advise you, stay away! I listened to screamo christian bands like Demon Hunter,Cry of the afflicted,Haste the Day,Dead Poetic,Sever your ties etc. To tell you the truth, I became so rebellious against my parents and started looking up to these people instead of God. Look the bands up & youll see 50% arent even christian,just labeled under that name!They ashamed of Christ!

Sounds like anti-christian stuff. How about "Amazing Grace" and "Rock of Ages"?

Watch this by Zac Poonen: The Deception of Christian Rock Music.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=2316

muh3yxap4e stated

Why is there so much blood?

Beacuse that what the message of salvation in Jesus Christ is. Our sin paid for by His Blood. The gospel is a message of the bloody butchery and resurrection of Jesus Christ in Glory. Nothing more, less, or else. Simply get an exaustive concordance and read all the scriptures concerning the spilling of innocent blood because of the guilt we have as humans in the Old and New testaments.

I for one am thankful that Mortification puts the raw Gospel out there and is not a bunch of mamby pamby sissified sugar coaters of the eternal power of the precious blood of Jesus Christ. In fact what actually bothers me is when folks who claim to be believers in Jesus get nervous when the raw and truthful Gospel of Jesus bloody sacrifice are shared. That is THE MESSAGE..Jesus was bloodily butchered for we who were in total rebellion to Him. Now why on earth would that make a true child of God nervous???? It is our redemption!

Lasttimes you stated

I listened to screamo christian bands like Demon Hunter,Cry of the afflicted,Haste the Day,Dead Poetic,Sever your ties etc. To tell you the truth, I became so rebellious against my parents and started looking up to these people instead of God.

With all due respect that is absolutely off the mark. You are trying to blame a band for your personal choices rather than taking responsibility for your choices. If a person becomes rebellious against their parents it is not because they were listening to a certain style of music. Especially since the ones you mentioned espouse submission to your parents and God's Word. There was rebellion IN YOUR HEART (as there has been in mine and everyone elses at times..so I am not singling you out...I've been there too friend.) However, to blame some band because you are not willing to take responsibility for your actions is absolute nonsense. The rebellion was IN YOUR HEART and would have come out somewhere..at sometime. Maturity will stand up and say, "I did it. No one put a gun to my head or made me..I chose to be rebellious to my parents and I need to take full repsonsibility and repent"- rather than blaming some folks who are trying to put forth Godly messages in a musical style I do not particularly care for. Man up! Be a mature person of God and don't go around blaming others for your choices!

JB1968 you stated

Sounds like anti-christian stuff.

Sounds like anti-christian stuff.

Look at the lyrical content and message coupled with the fruit of that individual person or band to see what true root they have. A good tree will produce good fruit and a bad tree will produce bad fruit. That is THE ONLY way to judge. Judge by the message they share and the spiritual fruit in the life of that individual!

Back on topic of recommended screamo bands... NOT if you personally "like" that style or not.

Thank you JB1968 for your post. Rock of Ages is the only Rock Music song I can listen to. I have nothing against contemporary Christian music when it magnifies Christ, does not promote self, sex, or sensuality, when it is thoroughly grounded in scripture and music is not in the foreground but serves to bring about worship in spirit and truth.
Rock Music has pagan origins. It is aggressive, rebellious, sensual, sexually explicit, promotes self love, and is a form of idol worship at its root. The devil loves Christian music but it will not save him. You cannot sanctify it by overlaying it with (mostly shallow) Christian lyrics.

What would you say if I produce a porn movie and at the end of it bring a Christian message to try to reach porn addicts to Christ?

How about working as a prostitute and donating the money to Christian charities? Or gambling and put the money in the offering box?

How about marrying an unbeliever in order to bring them to Christ? Zac Poonen is dead right. I am grieved to see how many Churches and Ministries that I used to benefit from now promote Christian Rock Music.

Amen, narrowpath. The music is rotten in itself. Does this really please Jesus?

Like you said. How about Christian adultery? The apostle said to "Come out from among them and be ye separate".

You cannot win the world by being like the world.

Can you share the reference to Zac Poonan discussing CCM??

Never mind. I see where you had posted the Zac Poonan link earlier....Sorry.

Most of the bands listed appear to be more metal, post-hardcore, or rock as opposed to screamo. I think I Am Terrified's first album (when they were Fixed Til Tuesday) would qualify as a purely Christian screamo album. And possibly Dear Whoever's Self-Titled EP. And maybe Burden of a Day's first album.

*Edit

I am more of an old school Gospel tunes kind of a guy, but I am open to whatever plants the seed.

Solomon101 thank you for your post, and I agree 100%. When I was a teenager I listened to a whole slew of ungodly music, one of my favorites at the time was Eminem. I call that time of my life my angry white boy phase but I could never attribute that to the music I listened to, why? because I was actually an angry white boy even without the music. It wasn't actually until somoene told me about Christian Rock that I turned my heart back to Christ and truly started thinking about my walk with God.

There are some that say Rock is many different things however music in itself can't be those things. I have said this before in another thread MUSIC has no life or message to it without Lyrics. SO Music without words can't be evil because you can't discern the intent of the music without its message first. I can take a brick and use it for great good or great evil does that make the brick evil or good? I can use that brick to build a hospital or I can lob it through a window of a store to steal everything inside, ITS not the Brick's moral choice in the use of it WHY? because it has no life, no conscious, its all the intent of the user.

I concur strongly with you, Solomon101, if you don't like screamo music that's fine but the original post was asking for Christian Screamo bands not opinions on whether or not you enjoyed listening to them or not. But to each his own this is still a free country for now. I can personally say I have been cut deeper with conviction by Christian Rock than I have "Rock of Ages" or even the beloved "Amazing Grace" but you don't see me bashing or speaking ill of those songs because I don't enjoy them as much as you, No I prefer to stick with what I prefer you stick with what you prefer because those are your own religious conviction and each should follow his own rather try and impose them on others.

My friend Solomon , You right, the rebellion started in my heart, but what encouraged it was this kind of music. The music is aggressive and loud and at that point in time it really encouraged my rebellion. I wanted to be just like these artists even considered getting tatoos and body piercing like them[while the bible states your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit] Many of the lyrics by some[not all] of these bands are destructive and break you down. In the same way the devil uses seeds of rebellion and violence in filthy movies and false doctrine via false prophets, the same way he uses this kind of music to sow those seeds of rebellion among believers!

Can you explain to me why satanists like this kind of music, and Ive seen it with my own eyes?? Theres a so called christian band that played at the ozzyfest, and these people loved it!!! Whers the demons Being driven out of people and set free?? Have you ever seen revival breakout with this kind of music??? Imagine John Wesley head-banging on stage screaming his sermon to the sound of heavy metal and rock music,LOL What a huge revival he would have had??? No, in most cases you cant even make out whats being said!!! Its pure entertainment thats all!! The Gospel doesnt need the worldly methods and gimmicks of the world to attract people. Thats polluting the Gospel, Away with it!!

"The Gospel doesnt need the worldly methods and gimmicks of the world to attract people."

Funny but its what attracted me back to Christ Jesus, not only did the lyrics convict but it was to the music I was already use to listening to. It was a way of showing and speaking to my heart the Love of Christ with a "method" that I could relate to and understand more clearly that Christ still loved me and was there for me.

If you will notice that the ones that have been positive about this thread have stated many different times to look at the Music and the band themselves to see the fruit they produce. It definitely hasn't been suggested to blindly listen to whatever, but the object is to find Godly lyrics along with a Godly testimony. Many good bands with both have been suggested.

*Edited for Clarification*

Well brother mguldner, I am happy that The Holy Spirit convicted you of your sin and you returned from your backsliding. I reckon there would probably be a division in heaven someday where the metalheads and rockers would be screaming their worship lyrics to God while people like me by the grace of God would be singing the Great old hymns with Dear brother Leonard Ravenhill,Paris Reidheid,Paul the Apostle,John Wesley etc. worshipping God on our side! What a privilege that would be!

I would like to interject this as we ponder this whole music thing. I believe that the likes of the Benny Hinns and all the other snake oil folks out there "I won't call Benny Hinn by the name Pastor" are also somewhat responsible for our younger generations being lured away from what we old school folks might call old time gospel music. They see that it's ok for Benny to to help a man with no legs walk again, so they figure it's ok for them to holler and scream their lyrics in a hard rock manor. It's called influence, some children have a stronger will than others, and cannot be lead by snake oil salesman, and some are bonded in Christ from past generations and have truly learned how to respect the Gospel. This is just my opinion, it not anything Biblical, well that I know of.

I don't think we should use the word "back sliding" it sounds so terrible, I always use these words, I/They have just fallen out of fellowship with Christ, again just my opinion.

well my brother everesosama, could you explain to me if satanists dont like christian metal why did Marilyn Manson play with christian bands Project 86 and in the crowd satanists were listening to them? The same with the Showdown off there album backbreaker thanking Ozzy for the Ozzyfest ? then whether it be john Wesley or even Paul the Apostle doesnt matter-You didnt see paul the Apostle shouting the lyrics at rock music!!! then yes choosing that music to fuel my rebellion was there, but if the music was anointed by the power of the Holy Spirit why was it fuelling my aggression? went i stopped listening to that music and started studying the Word the rebellion stopped!!the music IS NOT annointed by the Holy Spirit Its all out of the flesh The revival happening there is out of the flesh,not Spirit inspired the devil has his counterfeit revival to you know miracles prove nothing The question is are these people truly born again Many will say Lord we did this and this in your name & Hell say depart from me I never knew you! Yes its true the Lord looks at the heart of the worshipper So if someone was cursing God at a rock concert and you cant hear whats being said cause music is loud and they to busy growling the Lords presence would still be in their midst??? i think not,thats blashphamy!! this kind of music encourages the ecumenical movement! I thank the Lord He opened my eyes. Will be praying for you brother

by EverestoSama Well, to go about in a roundabout way; One, Marylin Manson and his sheep are about as Satanist as TBN is Gospel true Christianity.

Amen on TBN! I no longer watch it at all, they have really what we call in Texas, "Got Way Out Yonder" but they are as you said "still in the mix", and still influencing young/old alike that are not totally bonded in Christ. I have personally been a member of many Bible study classes, and what seems to happen is the majority is lead by the leader that gets bored with just the Word of God, and wants to venture out his/her own to almost the edge of, crystal balls, using Ouija board, practicing palmistry, interpreting patterns of birds flying, or interpreting dreams. I do personally think there are some good Christians that get lead astray because of boredom, I have personally witnessed this, and it's up to us to help bring them back home to Jesus.

I have a question, not regarding Christian metal/screamo/metalcore/hardcore/heavy/[insert subgenre here] music, but other artists, such as, if you're familiar with them:

Hillsong (United)
Switchfoot
Lighthouse
Starfield
Chris Tomlin
Relient K
Audio Adrenaline
Toby Mac

If you pay attention to Zac Poonen's video about the Deception of Christian Rock Music, the lines get blurry here because he doesn't clearly define what "rock" music is. Some of these artists proclaim God/Jesus in all their lyrics--other artists don't even mention God in their songs and secular people listen to them, just expressing Christian or Biblical themes. And some of them made a ton of money, but they're not exactly those who wear black clothing that Zac Poonen mentions. Is it a case by case basis by who we should listen to?

Doesn't this music glorify Christ? Be honest, tell me what you think! What about Audio Adrenaline's "Ocean Floor," "Pierced," and "Speak to Me" (YouTube them for a listen)? Too sentimental?

Now let me tell you, there's a website called comeandlive.com which features a bunch of Christian artists of different genres of music. Some of them, like Ascend the Hill, feature heavier instrumentation on modified hymns (Hallelujah! What a savior, The Love of God, I Surrender All, Be Thou My Vision)--there's one album of music that's purely instrumental (The Everett - Destinations). That's right, no words except the title to give you an idea of what the music's about.

What's also interesting is that all this music can be downloaded for free, only accepting donations (some bands are selling albums/t-shirts). How does God feel about this?

Is there anything reprehensible about this? Cannot such music glorify God, or do the roots of such genres of music condemn them from being worthy of the true believer's time?

May God give us a spirit of discernment.

Brother Everestosama, You contradicting yourself brother. You say Tbn is about as vile as the devil, yet tbn shows ccm and various hardcore christian rock music videos from jctv!!! I mean hello!! Then i am still sticking with john wesley I neva threw him overboard My statement was whether it Be him or paul the Apostle or any of the other great heroes of the faith The Fact Remains they did NOT scream their sermons with that kind of music!!!! Then like i said the music makes you rebellious, and as stated before im NOT blaming them for it started by me but their music definately worked on my emotions Do a study on rock music and its effects on the brain You say the Word of God is our only standerd Yet when i asked the question about paul the Apostle You cant answer me? then im not convincing anybody around here The Holy Spirit does the convinsing and convicting not me & im glad to see your willing to let me pray for you.

Brother Elowel I agree 100% with you brother I too believe these people are making money out of it all!! selling t-shirts concert tickets etc. once again going back to the Bible Paul the Apostle was a tentmaker He never went singing songs rapping and rocking and head-banging[that includes Wesley] on stages for money & so called reaching the lost. Relient-K has a song called Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend, I mean WOW what great doctrine!!! Hillsong and all these bands are making money and like i stated before are encouraging the ecumenical movement! its that simple!

Lasttimes....Brother Elowel I agree 100% with you brother I too believe these people are making money out of it all!! selling t-shirts concert tickets etc. once again going back to the Bible Paul the Apostle was a tentmaker He never went singing songs rapping and rocking and head-banging[that includes Wesley] on stages for money & so called reaching the lost. Relient-K has a song called Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend, I mean WOW what great doctrine!!! Hillsong and all these bands are making money and like i stated before are encouraging the ecumenical movement! its that simple!

Good post!

Lasttimes-
It appears you greatly misread the post by EverestoSama. It appears that in his mind TBN is not a real representation of Christianity. In the same way many of the so called "satanic" bands such as Marilyn Manson, Ozzy, etc. are not actually "real" or devout satanists. They are just showmen that act out a role on stage for the real master they serve...money. In essence they don't really live what their lyrics proclaim.... they just see it as a way to make a buck. These guys are laughed at and mocked by the real players on the satanic scene. In EverestoSama's own words

Marylin Manson and his sheep are about as Satanist as TBN is Gospel true Christianity. Manson, Ozzy, and all of those sorts were constantly mocked by the real players in the scene,

Now lasttimes....you stated

tbn shows ccm and various hardcore christian rock music videos from jctv!!!

You also stated that

My statement was whether it Be him or paul the Apostle or any of the other great heroes of the faith The Fact Remains they did NOT scream their sermons with that kind of music!!!!

It is the absolute pinacle of arrogance to assume you know what the Apostle Paul would have done if he had the means available to him that we have today! For crying out loud... Wesley did not write the melody to MANY of their songs, They took drunken bar songs and put new lyrics to it! If I were to take a drunken bar song of today and rewrite the lyrics to Godly ones you would condemn me for "being part of the world". However, that method of writing is EXACTLY what Wesley did. You would have condemned Wesley if you lived when he did.

The hymnody you cling to is a creation of largely the last few hundred years. What in the world do you think they did before that? Do you think the few little years out of church history music you like are the only ones that will be in heaven? From all ages past of all GREATLY DIFFERENT cultures there will be worship in heaven. If the Lord tarries there will undoubtedly arise styles in the years to come we have not yet heard. God is not easily exhaused in His creativity!

Lasttimes... your attacks on current musical styles are not unique in church history. In essence..you are not unique..you are just next! They fired J. Bach (yeah..that on. The classical composer) from being music minister in his church because his music was a rebellion breeding ground for the youth-YOU WOULD HAVE ATTACKED HIM TO. Martin Luther was verbally crucified for his giving music to his parishioners in the vulgar common music forms of the day.-YOU WOULD HAVE ATTACKED HIM TO. Wesley was mercilessly criticized fro using the current day drunken sailor and bar tunes for his hymn melodies...-YOU WOULD HAVE ATTACKED HIM TO.

Ever noticed this quote? "The devil should not be allowed to keep all the best tunes for himself"- Martin Luther. Let that sink in good and deep.

He asked you.., "Why should the devil have all the good music?"

Of this Charles Spurgeon said, "Luther's translation of his Psalms and his chorales did more to make the Reformation popular than even his preaching; for the ploughman in the field and the housewife at the cradle would sing one of Luther's Psalms; in Wycliffes day fresh psalms and hymnns were scatterd all over the land". (Charles Spurgeon, The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, #3514, page 261) Notice that in Luther's own words his music was called "from the devil" by many! However, Luther refused to ababdon it to the devil but rather put Christian lyrics to it and put LIGHT ITNO PLACES OTHERS WERE AFRAID TO GO! -YOU WOULD HAVE ATTACKED LUTHER'S MUSIC AS WELL.

As stated..in the final analysis Lastimes... your position is not unique...that thinking has ALWAYS attacked what God was doing in the music world. You aren't unique.. you are simply next.

Can "heavy metal, screamo, rock, etc" style music THAT IS LYRICALLY SOLID AND CHRIST EXALTING THAT COMES THROUGH PEOPLE WHO LOVE GOD AND BEAR COROOSPONDING SPIRITUAL FRUIT IN THEIR LIFE CAUSE REBELLION?... ABSOLUTELY!... I HAVE SEEN IT FIRST HAND BE HELPFUL IN CAUSING MY CHILDREN TO REBEL AT THE DEVIL AND TO SEEK JESUS. I HAVE SEEN IT FIRST HAND BE HELPFUL IN HELPING MY KIDS REBEL AT DRUGS, ALCHOLHOL, AND PARENTAL DISOBEDIENCE AND INSTEAD HELP MY KIDS BE ONES I AM EXTREMELY PROUD OF AS THEY AGGRESSIVELY SHARE THEIR FAITH IN CHRIST. THEY AND ARE HAVING A GREAT IMPACT INTO THEIR SECULAR HIGH SCHOOL AND TURNING MANY HEARTS TOWARD THE LORD! My friend since the music you are attacking causes all this then I say...God give us more of this rebellion type causing music!

by Solomon101 on 2011/3/17 15:20:33

It is the absolute pinacle of arrogance to assume you know what the Apostle Paul would have done if he had the means available to him that we have today!

I think now have a better idea what screamo means...

Lasttimes- It appears you greatly misread the post by EverestoSama. It appears that in his mind TBN is not a real representation of Christianity.

I was flipping channels just this past week, when TBN was doing there "weekly" it seems telethon, and I heard one of Paul Crouch son's literally say, "if you are not contributing money to TBN and your are taking advantage of it's broadcasting ministries, you are "Hijacking" TBN", these were his "exact" words, my jaw hit the floor. And we wonder why our children listen to screaming, hard core, Christian rock.
I also believe God had me stop on that channel when I was flipping channels, just to confirm to me once again, stay away from TBN.

Brother Elowel I agree 100% with you brother I too believe these people are making money out of it all!! selling t-shirts concert tickets etc. once again going back to the Bible Paul the Apostle was a tentmaker He never went singing songs rapping and rocking and head-banging[that includes Wesley] on stages for money & so called reaching the lost. Relient-K has a song called Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend, I mean WOW what great doctrine!!! Hillsong and all these bands are making money and like i stated before are encouraging the ecumenical movement! its that simple!

Listen to the songs of Starfield and Chris Tomlin. They're not trying to be rock stars who head bang. I've listened to them for years; if it glorifies God that I should stop listening to them because they're ungodly, then I will do so. I'm asking for what others think on the matter.

Blessings.

I have a question, not regarding Christian metal/screamo/metalcore/hardcore/heavy/[insert subgenre here] music, but other artists, such as, if you're familiar with them:

I would like to address this question. When I was in high school and college I received David Wilkerson's newsletter. I recall his description of a Mylon LeFever and Broken Heart concert in great detail. He decried this concert and the entire contemporary Christian / Christian rock music genre as anti-God. I believe Bro. Wilkerson to be a mighty man of God and powerfully used of God. I have great respect for him. But no man gets it right 100% of the time, and this was one time I believe he was not totally correct.

I have heard a great number of speakers and writers try to label one style of music or another as evil. But, I have yet to hear one of them do it from a Biblical basis. Some focus on rythm, some on the particular musical instruments, some on how it makes them feel, and some on whether or not the style is found in our current culture and where in our culture the music is found. But none of these things is addressed in scripture.

The truth of the matter is that music in the body of Christ has always been to a degree culturally relevant. That is, people in a culture come into relationship with God through Christ and have a natural desire to worship Him. People love to sing and write songs to fulfill this desire to worship. I believe this desire is hardwired into all of us. We were created in part for just this purpose. Naturally I will not write music following the style of the first century B.C. Roman period. This is primarily because that music is foreign to me. I will write songs from my cultural perspective. If I am Hispanic my songs will sound different than if I am African. Many of what we consider to be the "classic" hymns of the church have melodies that were originally written for entertainment in pubs and bars. The people in these environments knew only this music and changed the lyric to worship God with a familiar tune.

With that background I believe that much of the music written by Christian artists for the music industry is not inspired of the Holy Spirit and these artists are doing it for financial gain. I believe that much of the music written by Christian artists IS written by a person whose heart is to bless His body and serve them through music. This music is often inspired of the Holy Spirit. This is true regardless of genre. I have known of Southern Gospel singers whose lives were fraught with sin and who toured solely for financial gain. The same is true of rappers, rockers, etc. It has little to do with genre and much to do with the heart.

I think we need to be very careful not to preach as dogma those things that are really in the realm of personal opinion or preference. We do need to exercise discernment. But this discernment cannot be based on emotion or intellect. It can only come through the exercise of the Holy Spirit in and through us. He will tell you if there is something wrong with what you are listening to if you are willing to hear Him and obey.

Hillsong and all these bands are making money

1Co 9:11-14 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (12) If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. (13) Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? (14) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

There is a principle here that is worth noting. If God called me to minister in music full time I sure hope that I could make a living.

I have heard a great number of speakers and writers try to label one style of music or another as evil. But, I have yet to hear one of them do it from a Biblical basis.

here is one:
1 Cor 13: 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy;

love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked,

thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Rock Music parades itself
It is puffed up and puffs others up
It does behave rudely
and is provoked and provokes others

very good post twayneb. although a former heavy metal and hard/punk rock fan and musician myself (before Jesus found me) i try to keep as far away from it as i can,still i have to agree with you here- we need to be very careful not to preach as dogma those things that are really in the realm of personal opinion or preference and not based on the Scripture.

How close to the world do these groups have to be, to be of the world? God has called us to holiness not to uncleanness. Let's not staddle the fence. Make your choice. To be all His or to be all the devils.

I remember a group when I was a teen called Stryper or something like that. What gives? They looked like a Kiss impersonater. The mark of a real conversion is a changed life. When I got saved I didn't want an imposter but the Real One. They didn't fool me. Why are so many Christians gullible?

I read in one of David Wilkerson's books about a church having a dance for the young people. He had to preach against this. Have a dance. Why? So the young can be tempted to commit fornication? It just doesn't add up.
Neither does using a wicked kind of music to try and tell the Story of Christ make sense. Let alone you can't hear the words because the "music" is drowning out the words. Then you have many jamming and gyrating in sensual movements. What message is being sent? A message of the flesh. Hmmm...

This entire thread where someone was seeking an answer for a simple question has been completely hijacked by opinions this has made my heart pretty sad and ashamed of "Christianity" that religion is so deeply embedded.

"Relient-K has a song called Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend"

Lasttimes, could you please explain to me what Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend is about? I am guessing you never actually listened to the words or even the song to know. Well here are the lyrics for you.

Walk through the streets of PA and you may see her.
Go up to her and say you're a believer.
Disgusting trash on MTV it makes her smile.
That guy from Satan's embassy put him on trial.

Because... Marilyn Manson ate my girlfriend.
Satan consumed her mind and he may do it again.
Marylin Manson ate my girlfriend.
She once believed in the truth now she believes in sin.

She denies God when she has the chance to live for him.
The thought of it makes me cringe.
Her future looks dim.
She'd rather gaze in Satan's eyes than on a steeple.
I'm really starting to despise beautiful people.

Yup those are definitely 'Ungodly' and 'poor' doctrine. Its a song of warning about mingling with the world and being consumed by it. But I am guessing you simply judge things based off of the title right, I mean that's the only way you could have come up with your conclusion about this song. Don't let your opinions become bible doctrine. For you maybe rock isn't what you like to listen to BUT as stated before its not ungodly by genre but ungodly by its lyrical content.

Here is another one of Relient K's "satantic ungodly magnifying songs." Less is More.

Jesus, I pray
Take all my mistakes
Throw them away
Destroy them for my sake

Jesus, I call out 'cause I'm sorry
Because I fall so short of your glory
To the best of my ability
I'm practicing humility
And I lay myself before
'Cause less is more

All that I have
I lay before
With my pride on the floor
Cause to you less is more
All that I have
I lay before
With my pride on the floor
Cause to you less is more

I pour out myself
All that I am
You love me so much
That you fill me again
And may these words on my heart, on my lips
Somehow mean so much more than this

Jesus, I pray
Know what I'm trying to say

All that I have
I lay before
With my pride on the floor
'Cause to you less is more
All that I have
I lay before
With my pride on the floor
Cause to you less is more

I pour out myself, before you, oh Lord
I hold nothing back, 'cause to you less is more
And may these words on my heart on my lips,
Somehow mean so much more than this

Jesus, I pray
Just know what I'm tryin' to say

Jesus, I plead
Please purify me
Make my heart clean
Drench me with your mercy
Jesus, I pray
I love you, I need you
For the rest of my days
I swear I will seek you
To the best of my ability
I'm practicing humility
And I lay myself before
'Cause less is more.

Is this music beautiful?

Does it bring a calmness to ones' spirit?

Does it lift my spirit up with pleasure and give thanks to God for the beauty in sound?

Much sound that is labeled as music has about the same quality as a jackhammer chopping up concrete!

So much sound marketed as music today informs me that these performers are angry at life, at God. My instinct is to run away from that anger.

I have noticed that a lot of this music is initiated by males and promoted by males - they are at the helm. May I suggest that we are seeing a generation of angry males who need to quit fighting God and then see what kind of music will flow from their spirit!

My observation and opinion...

Angry males? Angry Music? I don't see it and I am certainly not angry. For you this music isn't peaceful or relaxing but to me is very well can be, and that is why we are in the realm of opinion and preference. It would be unfair to speculate these individuals are angry based solely on genre Lyrical content would be the only clear cut way to discern this. Many of the songs contain lyrics that are submissive with a different style of music some aren't use to.

Brother mguldner I find it funny you say that song is doctrinally correct The solid Gospel is not being promoted in it first Second they say mtv is disgusting, yet their song Be my escape was feutured on mtv and they approved of it????How two-face can you get??? Then songgs like in love with 80s wearing a pink tux to prom Is that solid doctrine? Then songs like my girls ex boyfriend I mean WOW Thats what i call scripture Then the last song you stated comes off their album tongue& cheek Well the song sadie walkins dance *the girl is stunning in the song Wonder if shes born-again??? and they going to the sadie hawins to dance at worldy music!!! Then they thank project 86 on that same album that starred with Manson??

Matthew, when I listen to music, my ears listen to the sound first and foremost. Usually, lyrics are irrelevant. I have to hear a song several times before the the lyrics ever register.

I used to think I was weird because when I hear music it is the sound that I hear, not the words. And sound communicates, apart from any words.

Consider for a minute the importance of sound. When you first told your wife that you loved her, what kind of sound accompanied that declaration? Were you harsh, loud, make grinding sounds like a jackhammer? or were you tender, soft and gentle? When people speak to a baby, what kind of voice do you use? Can the baby understand the words, or does it understand the sound?

Understand what I mean?

ginnyrose

Can anyone explain to me why these bands like skillet,kutless and even CCM artists etc. throw devil-horns with their fingers like the satanists do, & the videos are on youtube, I reckon theyll probably do that in heaven to hey??? Hillsong and all the CCM artists would probably be selling tons of cds in heaven too and rocking and jamming their before all the saints in heaven!!! I mean WOW!! I wonder if people who didnt have money to pay for a ticket to these concerts are allowed to come & listen to this so-called Gospel without being shown away like a beggar??

One poster on this thread said,

Quote:

"I gave the full lyrical content of two songs...although we can post hundreds more of equal message quality. I THEREFORE CHALLENGE YOU. Since you have seen it appropriate to indicate that in your mind it is "anti-christian stuff" please take the two examples of lyrics we have listed and PLEASE SPECIFICALLY REFERENCE WHICH LINES YOU ARE SAYING ARE ANTI-CHRISTIAN."

Lyrics do not necessarily make a song christian,any more than worship makes a man christian.

Mark 7:6,7 He answered and said to them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied concerning you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But, in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt 15:8,9 This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The subtilty of satan needs to be discerned on the subject of muse-ic.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty, and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

Lyrics of deception in songs may very well,and do in many cases,contain scripture or theology of sorts, but be not deceived!

Deception abounds in the area of music. Satan attempts to mock God and us,as well as deceive us,through muse-ic.

It is no strange thing that satan use the very Word of God and spiritual words to do his deceiving. It would be no surprise to me,and it is no surprise that he is doing just that. The albums and songs he uses may just as well be titled, "It is Written" or "He Will Give His Angels Charge Concerning You" or "On Their Hand They Will Bear You Up" or "Lest You Strike Your Foot Against a Stone". I doubt not that he'd employ many spiritual lyrics along with the instrumental talent of his ministers.

As satan said to Jesus, Matt 4:6...for it is written, 'He will give His angels charge concerning You'; and 'On their hands they will bear You up, Lest You strike Your foot against a stone.'"
(PS. 91:11,12)

I say, believe them not! Be not deceived and enticed,and drawn in to this kingdom of noise!

This is non-debatable.

I think a lot of us are skipping over the most important part, has any of this music brought in any lost sheep? Well I don't have to really ask that, Stryper brought my own son to Christ, and my son Daniel is an awesome man of God and he still loves their music. I personally listened to their new album last night "The Covering" and if this is hate or satanic music, so is the likes of the Bill Gaither, Micheal W. Smith, Third Day, etc. The problem here is, and I know this is it, is you have old fashion Christians that have grew up on the likes of George Beverly Shea, that anything louder more radical, or more rock than him is trash music. I guess it's a good thing the trumpets were loud and obnoxious, or many would have died "And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow even throughout all the host" Look, regardless of the sound, if it brings these lost kids to Christ, does anything else really matter? or would it be better to force our children to come to Christ by listening to George Beverly Shea and Bill Gaither? Times have changed on this Earth, but some folks want to stay stuck in the 50's, I am 59, I have learned to be open minded and grow with the times, and I can minister to 15 year Child or a 100 year old adult, and in my personal walk with Christ, well it's closer than ever.

Wow! lots of stones casting in this thread, I just read more of it. Maybe the older generation or even some of the newer really don't care for the Christian Rock sound, but you might ask yourself, is your own closet clean from everything that might dishonor Christ, if it is, well continue casting.

You do all realize that an elecetric guitar is nothing more than a harp don't you?????

Again...lastdays I asked you several specific questions in two previous posts. Questions you totaly ignored. I must assume it is becuase you either respond without actually having read the previous posts thereby responding in ignorance to the thoughts expressed. Or...it is also possible that you have nothing to share except an absolute bias based on nothing more than a limited understanding of music. The fact that this issue IS IN NO WAY dealt with in scripture means that musical STYLE preference is of little or no importance to God. He is the creator! satan is not a creator! As a true creator God probably authored most all of the musical styles in existence since creation.

However, in the interest of peace and harmony how about we make a deal with everyone who wishes to throw in their two cents and bash folks who play musical styles they do not enjoy?

If you want to "bash" them then please go start a thread labeld as such..somethng like.."A thread to bash all music we do not Like"..or whatever.BUT QUIT HIJACKING THREADS THAT FOLKS ARE USING TO JUST PROMOTE YOUR BIASES!

It is unethical for you to hijack this thread that is being used to discuss a topic. You simply could not let it alone and keep your opinions out of it. Opinions that were not asked for! They were not asked for and all you have done is stir up dischord. Please go do it elsewhere! We actually want to have a discussion concerning some bands... and if you do not have anything constructive and knowledgable to add concerning them then please go mess up someone elses thread that loves to sit back and criticize with you! In all your posts there is nothing but "the opinions and feelings of men"...nothing from the Word. So again, please keep it off this thread. It in ridiculous that we can not have a conversation amongst readers of SI without a few self proclaimed critics setting themselves up to slam whatever they do not personally like or prefer.

Jesus said it this way

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

This isn't about music preferences. It is about what is right or wrong. Satan is the "god of this world" and he is deceiving many people thinking that worldly ways will change lives. What are people being changed from? Just lyrics? I hope more. Much of the "music" of today doesn't teach much and the "artists" aren't much of an example. They used to be called Ministers, now they are called "artists". Is is becaused they have stopped ministering for the Lord? Big business?

By the way, I like George Beverly Shea. No, I did not grow up in the 50's. He sings music that glorifies God, not himself. "Oh, the Wonder of it All" and "I'd Rather Have Jesus". These songs have a real message. And he did not paint himself up to look like a demon, like some of the groups have been known to do. Hmm...

My friend Solomon, Im not bashing nobody All I am doing is looking at the artists FRUIT The Bible says you will know false prophets by their FRUIT So if the bands are throwing devil-horn signs, mixing with satanic bands, even thanking Worldy bands for inspiring them[not the Holy Spirit],a still afterward gettin tatoos and piercing[while the bible says your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit], singing some songs that arent even biblical,using money for personal gain and buying milliondollar houses for themselvesetc. That in your eyes is called critisism or like the other brother said intellectulism??? So you tellin me i should ignore their FRUIT??? And now im not Christlike!! DONT judge is what they all say!!

We all have our own personal opinions, and I think in this instance using scripture to "try" and back up your agenda, is totally wrong, we all can find scripture to agree with our opinions on both sides, we do it here everyday. It's really simple, rather than starting a huge debate that will eventually cause a lot of strife here, just don't read or post on this thread. There was a simple question asked, and I don't know if the person that deserved and answer, like anyone else would if they ask a question, ever received an answer. I like all kind of Christian music and some secular "O my God! did I say that?" yes I said secular, not one of you here will be standing at the Judgment seat in my place, even though you act as if you might. If the Christian rock don't minister to you, hey "don't listen to it" but if it does minister to some, why come here stomping on this thread, just to interject your opinions and worst of all find scriptures that favor you opinions. We all can set here and have a scripture fight, seen it happen many times, now who or what would a scripture fight be edifying?

ALL CRITICS ON THE THREAD-

Done now???

As stated hijacking a thread is unethical and wrong. Please have some common manners and quit it!

We wish to have a discussion in which you obviously have no positive input. We further wish to continue the topic without your constant bashing.

Please go start a thread labeled, "THE THREAD FOR BASHING AND CRITICIZING OTHERS MINISTRIES OR MUSIC WE DON'T LIKE". Go there and throw stones to your hearts content.

At least show some common courtesy and manners for the others members wishing to use SI for other than this constant criticism that plagues the forums.

EverestoSama-

I have a project I have to finish here and will be gone for several minutes. However, I wanted to pick back up on your question of Jayson Sherlock's other projects. Good discussion.

Back in a few!

I'm new to this discussion. Music is one that is close to my heart as we have raised 4 boys. As their father my goal was to see them experiencing the love of "Abba" and them choosing to die for the sake of that relationship and calling. As missionaries, we raised our boys in Brazil in a missionary environment where most types of music, movies etc. were OKed by some parents for their kids. We chose staying away from all rock, all movies and all TV (except maybe a few soccer games). We have not been at all disappointed. Nor have the boys.

Back on Topic-

EverestoSama asked

what did/do you think of Jayson Sherlock's project Horde, and his work with Paramæcium out of curiosity?

Wow...got to say that is not something on everyones radar! In terms of pure style it is a little heavy for my taste normally..however there are times I enjoy sitting back and listening. My boys and I often lift weights/work out together and it has sometimes found its way onto the playlist for that time I spend with them.

As I understand the story Sherlock was the only musician on the "one man band" Horde. He did not reveal his identity and released the album as by an anonymous artist. He promoted the music/cd's as , "Holy UnBlack Metal". This eveidently sent the dark powers that be into a fitful tizzy. It is my understanding that the company who released the music were given death threats to reveal who this "anonymous" artist was. Evidently it was upsetting to them that he had began shining light right into the depths of black metal music. Upon eventually revealing the identity as Jayson Sherlock I understand that the death threats were then sent to him for invading their darkness with a lot of Gospel light. I may stand to be corrected on some of the details ..but that is how I understand them.

WOW..death threats from real satanists and being bashed and criticized by the Pharisaical religionists on an SI forum.....that sounds a lot like where Jesus would have cut the grain as well! Again, I may have some details wrong...but if anywhere near correct I have to respect that kind of ministry! As stated..I do enjoy the Horde music at times. Not my go to list..but at times it is spot on for me.

Although not as familiar with Paramaecium I do have to say that I found it super cool that they incorporated such diverse instruments as violins, cello's and even violins on their music. I found that part very refreshing and creative! I have one son who plays drums/bass in a screamo/thrash style strongly Christian band.....who also leads worship in a contemporary vein at church and leads many of his classmates to Christ. The other one is a classical violinist and making a solid impact into his class as well. When the two of them put their talents together it is outstanding! Maybe that is why the Paramecium creativity caught my attention. Any particular recommendations you would make on Paramecium? I am less familiar with that work than the other two.

Anywayzzz..those are my thoughts on Sherlocks other projects.

I have a couple of questions for you-

1.What have you found about them (Horde and Paramecium) yourself?

2.Do you know of any other bands in the Paramecium style that incorporate various instuments like the violin/flute/cello. etc. in a creative way?

3. EverstoSama...your profile says your are in Japan. Is that correct? If so what are your thoughts on what is happening there? How might we specifically pray for you or folks/situations you know of if you are there?

Blessings!

Dan-Brazil Thanks for your post. Brother Solomon like The Lord said:Have I now become your enemy cause I tell you the truth? My friend like i said, I studied these people I had countless cds I fought for rock music I was probably there biggest fan from christian punk to heavy metal to rap you name it! Until the Lord opened my eyes. By their FRUIT youll know them, its that simple! Brother Everestosama you say the wesle, keeth greens also had bad fruit YES but did get their inspiration from God or from worldy bands? Did they throw up devil-horn signs,satanic symbols,get tattoos body piercings,make money for personal gain? Then Solomon say you like mortification, LOOK at their FRUIT who did they tour with during their time, the money off their cds where did it go to, were there dEvil-horns thrown at their concerts when they started out who were their inspirations for making music do they act like the world at their concerts, has a word about revival been spoken from their lips during their 10+years Listen to the revival-hymn on sermonindex to find out whats true revival!!!

Did they make money for personal gain?

Well, there is one category they all fall into.

Lasttimes, you almost sound as your are very bitter about your past experiences. Think about it for a moment, you would probably not be the person you are now without those personal experiences. You rode, you followed, you bought into this Christian Rock at one point, I know you would like to help save us all from what you see now as a bad experience. When we get blessed by God with his creation, it makes us want to jump for joy with singing. Ezra 3:11 speaks about having joy in the Lord with a loud shout. When we worship the Lord with a shout, It travels a great long distance to where everyone far away can hear it. The louder the shout, The farther it can be heard. It's the same way with the Gospel through Christian Rock, The louder The shout, The more powerful and farther the gospel can be heard and witnessed to all the lost souls. Christian Rock, gets a whole lot of souls saved and serving the Lord. Wow, what a big huge difference then trying to share the gospel to a hardcore unsaved person with a slowest gospel music type of method. Christian Rock is simply another tool to bless the non-believer into receiving the Lord into their hearts and serving the Lord.

My brother Bill im not bitter at all I was simply stating to look at their FRUIT Thats all. Because you are my brothers in Christ I love you enough to WARN you. I would have done the same with any other false preacher, so im not just hammering rock here. We will have to see at the judgement seat. We will all have to stand before the Lord someday for deeds done in the body, so may I like paul the Apostle say I am but the chief of all sinners and perhaps even worse. Well you all probably had enough of me, so Ill stop arguing. God bless

Lasttimes and Dan-Brazil, I'm with you. I was in a church one time and had to get up and leave. They were playing this stuff and showing their flesh and boogieing. I John 2:15-17 says, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

Wow...hmm...

Not many people desire to be like Jesus, just want to be imitators of the world.

Lasttimes..My brother Bill im not bitter at all I was simply stating to look at their FRUIT Thats all. Because you are my brothers in Christ I love you enough to WARN you. I would have done the same with any other false preacher, so im not just hammering rock here. We will have to see at the judgement seat. We will all have to stand before the Lord someday for deeds done in the body, so may I like paul the Apostle say I am but the chief of all sinners and perhaps even worse. Well you all probably had enough of me, so Ill stop arguing. God bless

I understand Brother, I am not upset at anyone, we all are entitled to our opinions, and I respect yours, as I know you respect mine. God said, for my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. If God is working "through" us, I guess it's as he say's, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. How can anyone here be 100% positive God is not working through some of this music to bring in the lost sheep? I sure would not want to be the person that thinks because my thoughts on this differ from yours, that God agrees with me and me alone, he said it right here, neither are your ways my ways, so maybe he could be saying your music is not my music, or maybe just because you don't like this music does not mean I don't. It's to deep for any of us to understand Gods ways, I did not just say that, God did.

by Lasttimes..My brother Bill im not bitter at all I was simply stating to look at their FRUIT Thats all. Because you are my brothers in Christ I love you enough to WARN you.

And Brother, I sincerely appreciate that, but other than the Word of God, who/what here on earth, does not have some corruption/sin? maybe we should start a thread on pure sinless/uncorrupted things here on earth, that would be really interesting.

Quote:

""And Brother, I sincerely appreciate that, but other than the Word of God, who/what here on earth, does not have some corruption/sin? maybe we should start a thread on pure sinless/uncorrupted things here on earth, that would be really interesting.""

Especially when there is only One who is sinless.
This is the only way a man can be presented perfect;

Christ in you the Hope of Glory.,

Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip

I just listened very briefly into some of these so called Christian metal bands that some of their advocates mentioned here. I could not bear it. I was absolutely shocked, this comes straight from the pit of hell. Trio Sonata for Chainsaw, jackhammer and car-alarm; aggressive, dark, threatening, mind-numbing, and just sick.
You say this is God inspired??
Would you play this stuff in a sunday school class to 5 year olds?
Would you play this trash to minister in an old folks home?
Could you imagine Mary and Joseph rocking Jesus cradle to a tune of Mortification?
Could you imagine David turning on the amp on his harp to earsplitting noise?
I do not care if you call me a hypocrite, my heart bleeds for you whoever you are that is trapped in this.
I do not care if throw lava from the pit at me and call me a bigot.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

Is this music pure? It looks every bit like satanic heavy metal - but with Christian lyrics. Do Christian lyrics sanctify satanic voyeurism? Is it not rather the satanic appearance that blasphemes the "Christian Lyrics"

Is it peaceloving and considerate? This is meant to shock and upset.

Phlp 4: 8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

The real heavy metal bands are at least honest in the point they say they follow the devil. "Christian" heavy metal bands pretend they promote Christianity, but they actually make a mockery of it.

Lord have mercy on them!

Amen Narrowpath. Wesley's hymns are no comparison to this junk. The lyrics and the tunes...

I've been seeing a lot of Scriptural verses popping up that give some good principles on how to make good choices. And that includes music.... "Christian" rock proponents don't acknowledge them and keep talking about Wesley, Luther, etc. By the way, "A Mighty Fortress" does not sound like boom, boom, uggh, umm, ooowwww! But it has a cohesiveness about it. It doesn't take much talent to paint yourself up, dress up like satanic Kiss,Ozzy, Black Sabbath; scream, and bang on a guitar and them destroy it and then call it Christian... Who are they fooling? Definitely not God. Hmmm...

After praying about this for a while I just thought I am going to stop posting in this thread. We all have our opinions and thoughts on this subject. I have strong feelings about this because music is a large part of my ministry and study and so when people try to put restrains on how one praises the Lord I will generally fight tooth and nail on this. However this debate should be for a different thread and place the orginal post didn't ask for if Screamo is Godly or not but sought after Godly Screamo music, whether you agree with it or not that is the topic at hand.

I personally and publically apologize to the original poster for indulging in this debate and playing a role in taking this thread off course.

It's strange that no one has responded to the Scriptural principles and verses quoted. Do these not apply to music? Or to everything else besides music?

It's strange that no one has responded to the Scriptural principles and verses quoted. Do these not apply to music? Or to everything else besides music?

I placed it here because this is where the Scriptures were brought up.

I would like to know what his definition of Christian Rock is (especially since the slighly tacky fill-in music at the start of his downloadable messages has drum beats etc.)

I have wondered the same on this..What is "Christian rock"?

Brother Zac allows various instruments at his church. So am sure the definition is not just merely meaning the use of instruments. I know for a fact he is not against them. However, what constitutes as "christian rock" here is a good question.

Is it a type of music that has the same sound as worldly rock, but instead of worldly lyrics or meanings, it has godly words and meanings.

JB1968, I keep seeing you mention "the world". What is "the world" to you, exactly. You mentioned earlier that we are to be in the world but not of the world. Where do you find that in the Bible? The closest that I can find to that statement is Jesus saying in John 17 that we are not of the world (Christians) any more than God is of the world. It's not that we shouldn't be of the world, it's that we are not of the world. There is a big difference in the two.

There is a lot of hostility in this thread. It's understandable as this is a hot topic and people feel deeply. With this thread on my mind last nightI was reading in Romans, specifically the latter bit of chapter 17 and the beginning of chapter 8. I won't quote it here but the jist is the struggle between the two natures. Chapter 17 describes the struggle and the beginning, at least, of chapter 18 details where our victory is. In 18 Paul says that the works of the flesh are death and those who live according to the flesh can't even understand their situation. Finally, the Bible says that it is impossible to please God if we are in the flesh. Like a flash it dawned on me that the "flesh" Paul is referring to is our efforts to please God. He's not referring to sin, he's referring to our efforts not to sin.

When our focus is on right and wrong our focus is off of Christ. When our eyes move from Christ and take in the challenges we face, we sink. This doesn't mean that we go on doing whatever we want, but it does mean that if we can listen to hard rock in good conscience we should feel no condemnation. To condemn other Christians for doing this is to bring death to the Body of Christ and not life.

So much time spent on what's right and wrong. Do we not trust that it is God who keeps us? Are we not confident in the Lord to reprove and correct His own children? Do we trust so much in the arm of the flesh that we feel we can strong arm the Church? Like I tell my kids sometimes when one is in trouble and the other is being nosy, "I'm the parent, you're the kid, go play." I think God wants us to just let Him be the parent.

Ok, someone answer this for me. Where is it stated that music or art has to be evengelistic or worshipful? I work a regular job and should do it as to the Lord, but I sure wouldn't call designing petro/chemical plants exactly Christian. Is it ungodly for a Christian to just write music about his or her spouse, or what they see happening in the world? Does an artist have to include religious imagery into the painting or can they just paint a tree?

Without really giving it much thought I've always believed it should, or would, be evangelistic in nature. I'm not so sure that it has to be now though.

When our focus is on right and wrong our focus is off of Christ. When our eyes move from Christ and take in the challenges we face, we sink. This doesn't mean that we go on doing whatever we want, but it does mean that if we can listen to hard rock in good conscience we should feel no condemnation. To condemn other Christians for doing this is to bring death to the Body of Christ and not life.

hoohoou,

You are right - there IS hostility on this thread. It is for that reason that I am not going to enter the fray. But there HAVE been some posts that are not hostile. Is it possible, that some people are "coming alongside" in love? Or in the spirit of Prov. 27:17 - "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another"... I don't believe that asking someone to consider another position is always "condemnation". It is the spirit in which it is given.

These are only some of the verses that speak about the Christians relationship to the world.

John 17:14-18 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John defines the what the world is.
I John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Do we desire the attitudes of the world more than the will of God? Is God pleased with, for example, sensual music? What about watching bed scenes or listening to curse words? Is God pleased with these when He forbids these to be done? How about reading horoscopes, when He forbids any kind of astrology or fortune telling? There are commands and principles found in His Word for every area of our lives.

Concerning the day to day areas of our lives that are not religious in nature, it says in 1 Cor. 10:31 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." If we cannot do something for His glory, should we be doing it? Everything we do should bring honor to His name. If it doesn't bring honor to His name, then it brings dishonor to His name. And I do not want to do that.

It is good to discuss these issues. Increasingly the pulpits have become silent about alot of the issues that are forefathers hammered on. Why? God knows. But God doesn't change.

Study God's Word and walk in the light and He will cleanse and lead us (I John 1:7).

Mama27,

Absolutely. If we can't discuss and even argue a little we will be worse for it. It is the spirit in which it's done. I think some of this is getting a litte nasty though. However, it is difficult sometimes to determine the tone in which something is written. A comment may appear harsh when it's really just a statement said honestly. It's when offering a different viewpoint becomes a judgment upon another Christian that we have a problem. I think that's what this has become. Honestly, I may have even added to that.