Rob Bell from Mars Hill church suggesting that everyone will be saved

It amazes me how many words were used to answer Martin's questions, and yet never was an answer made...

The joy of life is not coming to conclusions about the most important truths that have ever been given to men? And the great journey is pushing against those cemented facts?

I don't understand something. If guys like this are coming out and saying everyone will be saved then the purpopse of his church is? Cheerleading?

My family and I use to watch some of Rob's earlier videos. I had heard that he was wondering off the page and frankly this is off the page.

We realize just how horrific the hell is we read of and were taught about when we begin to understand just how Holy and Righteous God is. As we grow in our understanding of Him, hell grows in like measure becoming even more frightful and damnable.

I once took a world religion course in college and the Prof who was a rural Southern Baptist preacher told me he had traveled to many countries around the world and he couldn't see how men could only come by way of Christ when so many across the globe have not even heard His name.

Man will always be left to dispair in his own rational if he tries to confine God to his value system.

When asked why he would agree with Origen over Arius...his answer?

Because I'm a Pastor, and so I deal with real people in a real world asking and wrestling with these issues of faith! And what I have discovered, over and over again, is there are people who have questions and hunches and are sort of really struggling with this, and when you can simply give them the gift of...'by the way, within the Christian tradition, there are scholars and theologians, and are other people who have had the same questions.'

"These are spots in your love feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots." -Jude 12

Many cloud shaped words...and yet none of them are like water to my thirsty soul.

Secondly the dominant story of the scriptures is about restoration, it's about renewal, it's about rebirth, it's about a God who insists, in the midst of this chaos...the last word has NOT been spoken.

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in the time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." -Hebrews 1:1-2

It appears to me as if God has spoken to us through Jesus, as well as the Prophets and Apostles. (Ephesians 2:19-22)

Its amazingly easy to develop any sort of view of eschatology when you do not think that God has spoken the "last" word. The last few thousand times I have read my bible, I have not been aware of this "dominant" theme cropping up all over scripture that in the midst of chaos God has not given us the "last" word. As a matter of fact, I am not sure the word "Chaos" or its equal is ever even found in scripture. (It shows up in the NLT, but I am not sure it is an appropriate word to translate tohu, which is the Hebrew word for confusion, emptiness, without form, void, waste or wilderness. This is the word by the way that is used in Genesis 1:2. I am no Hebrew scholar, and if there is one who could show me if I am wrong, but I doubt anyone would translate Genesis 1:2 as the earth was "Chaos". I know this is a rabbit trail, sorry.) If I am not able to trust that God has indeed spoken "the last word," at least as last as is sufficient for understanding our eternal destinies, then I might as well give up my faith. (1 Peter 1:3)

Jesus IS the last word (Revelation 1:11).

He is right however to say that dominant themes are renewal, rebirth, and restoration, so we obviously agree and congratulate him for such a declaration. But, as engineers say, "Four-fifths of a mouse trap, is not a mouse trap."

***Edited my last paragraph after I discovered a bit more information.***

Interesting. He doesn't seem to like answering straight up questions. He is the founder of the church? In today's Christianity, that means you are the boss and when push comes to shove, others have to leave, not you. Wonder how many have left his church over his beliefs.

Yes, Apollus, what is coming down the tracks is horrendous. What is already here is bad. We have a Christless Christianity, today.

Frank: I am afraid you might not be far off the mark brother. I did some research last night and heard something very different from the gospel of Christ.

Frank: You are so right brother. Mr. Bell is under a very strong deception for sure. It grieves my heart to see people being led astray. A message I heard lately came to mind as I read this thread. It is by a man named John Mulinde. He speaks of an encounter with God in which God showed him the real condition of his heart and brought great repentance to him over his ways. You can find it in the blog section on IHOP's website.

"you will find a race of people who mostly believe in an afterlife, but one in which everyone goes to heaven apart from " bad people." Of course they believe that most people are " good people."

Dead on brother, what I find interesting is if you really study the Word (most Christians don't have a deep understanding of their faith or even what the believe) Good and Bad has nothing to do with Salvation. As you know its all Grace however many people don't understand that our righteousness isn't the factor, its that WE are all depraved and deserving of death and hell, its not an issue of who you want as your defense in the End. Is your trust in Christ and His Work on the Cross or is it on your morality. Something many people are ignorant to.

Dare to stand up in the public arena and suggest that the recent earthquake was a judgement from God and see what happens, it wont be pretty!

Right on! You will be shouted down for sure!

May I suggest God is sending these calamities to destroy people's security to make them think of their eternal destiny and look to God, to get them to repent. This is the purpose of all the judgments described in Revelation (9:20-21; 16:9-10) and the prophets. There is nothing to prevent God from afflicting anything similar to our beloved country, either.

An aside: did you see those videos of the waters rushing in, picking up cars and pitching them around like toys in a bathtub? I got the sense that this is what God thinks of these status symbols - just gather them all up and throw them into the trash heap! Ouch!

Brothers, here's a link to the Paul Edwards program in which he interviews Martin Bashir, and we get to know more about this journalist who interviewed Rob Bell. It's a really good listen.

http://www.godandculture.com/blog/msnbcs-martin-bashir-on-the-paul-edwards-program

Thank you for posting that Elowel. Excellent interview.

I was amazed by this interview. I highly encourage taking the time to listen; especially to the end.

http://www.godandculture.com/blog/msnbcs-martin-bashir-on-the-paul-edwards-program

I could say much but the interview speaks for itself.

Wayne

May I suggest God is sending these calamities to destroy people's security to make them think of their eternal destiny and look to God, to get them to repent. This is the purpose of all the judgments described in Revelation (9:20-21; 16:9-10) and the prophets.

Now, to my point, I am thinking that if God wanted to destroy someone’s security blanket, having them think of their eternal destiny, look to God to repent, then surely He would send calamities to America. I support my statement with the argument that over half of us on SI do not go to church because we tend to think of them as Babylon!! To me, the logic of destroying someone’s security in order to get them to repent would be to the Christian church in America.

I'm just thinking out loud. God bless,
Lisa

I say this in all kindness but I’d like to see some of you under the gun of a 5 minute interview on CNN or FOX defending what you believe with simple yes or no answers.

What if someone asked you if you believed in healing; would your answer REALLY be a single word ‘yes’ or ‘no’? No one hardly ever types a simple yes or no on here(SI)!!! No, we’ve all got to explain where we are coming from; why is he so different, my brothers and sisters?

Let's not wait on Christ; why don’t we all just take the judge’s robe off of Jesus Christ right now, tar and feather the man for not admitting to being what you all seem to know that he is: a universalist?!

Has anyone actually prayed for Rob Bell? Devoted actual time to pray for him instead of criticizing him? And asked God what God thinks of him?

God bless and submitted in love,
Lisa

Gentlemen, this is solid discussion over what's happened in Japan, but is it appropriate for us to focus directly on it here (even if it does tie in somewhat to the claims of Rob Bell's universal reconcilist)?

I hope this isn't against the forum rules, but you may be interested in these links (maybe I should use less links in my posts):
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/japan-after-empathy-and-aid-people-want-answers
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/taste-see-articles/tsunami-sovereignty-and-mercy
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/where-is-god

Everestosama, thank you for that post, I had no idea it was like that in Japan.

"That being said though, I believe America is going to get it worse. Like Israel they've had the truth there for a long time, and they've become mockers of it."

Thanks for the personal testimony and eye witness account brother, though you have told me in the past about it, it just never gets old to read or hear. Japan is definitely in need of our prayers.

This line is what really struck a chord with me though. My wife works at a Christian Nursing home and more often then not she works with NonChristian coworkers and employers and works with NonChristian residence. BUT interestingly enough what has happened in Japan has got many of them terribling looking at their eternal destiny should they not trust Christ. Many are worried about CA because the Radiation from Japan has finally reached there causing many government warns against drinking the water and eating the plant life and live stock. I do hope and pray America will take what happened in Japan as a wake up call and that the church of Jesus Christ will be ready to answer the many questions that will rise.

I agree wholeheartedly with you statement and believe the Lord will soon pour out His Judgment on such a wicked nation.

To me with ROb Bell, I have listened to the Interview is why has it taken people so long to say ok Rob Bell is a Universalist!
With the interview with Martin Bashir it was prominent that he knows theology to some extent!
Rob bell denigrates the gospel and street preaching in some of his early noomas and I amazed that how many people have been decieved by him.

With this issue of Japan, the way that he presents love is actually anti love is there is no hell, there is no heaven.

Because if god cannot send people to hell, He is not God! It is almost people try and make themselves more loving than God which is foolish!

I ask people when I am evangelizing if God let everyone into Heaven would that be Heaven and they reply no.
I say Why not? Because they do not want to be with murderers? So it would be Hell!
I ask them I think Paul Washers statement if you gatecrashed the Presidents house do you think he would let you in? I ask them Why not? The simple answer is because you do not know the President, basically stating why should God let you in if he does not know you? It also give me the statement of saying that God has the absolute right to let into Heaven whoever he wants? As it is his abode.
To me the issue is that he is lying to Gods people and simply not telling it as it is. If I tell you that the Sky is Orange and not Blue, you would say that i am lying. Because it does not take you much but to look up at the sky and say the sky is blue.
To me Heaven and Hell are real as that blue sky. If god created the Heavens and the Earth. I should trust the Bible and not make false assumptions on the one who created the Heavens and the Earth.
I mean what knowledge does Rob Bell have compared to the creator of the universe? Rob Bell has never visited these places he is just simply making flights of fancy to adapt to a society and a world that hates the concepts of Hell. To me this another thing that also proves the Bible if it was simply a book written by man it would be a lot more fictional and not deal with issues such as Judgment and Sin and things which men do not like!
To me Rob Bell denigrates the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and leads people astray.
To me as a church we have become less of calling a Black Cat , Black.
If you read the early church they fought hard of the first three centuries calling heresies heresies. The first three centuries where fought over the personhood and every heresy that has come up in are modern times.
We have to fight against new Arius before they turn into movements like the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons. How many movements like the Jehovah witnesses are being born now!

To me if we have no gospel message that Jesus died for our sins so that we would not have to go to Hell and he was a subsitute sacrifice in my place, so I do not have to recieve the judgement of God in my life. The law codemns me but the gospel saves me not only from my sin but my life!
He died so I can live.
God is coming back to judge this world and do you know the saviour, to me this book actually is not love but hatred trying to do things mans way rather than Gods way. It is rebellion against God in the name of Love making this so called love actually an abomination before GOd! TO me it is not the wrath of the majority of People it is the Wrath of God that Rob bell should be more wary about.
If everyone gets to Heaven why preach the gospel why should I waste my time or breath to the people that are going to Hell on a daily basis. I missed today and I feel so depressed! I was in a jewish area evangelizing this week and saw there hardness against Christians, I wish I evangelized today! I love people enough to tell them.

To the talk about Japan does not god have absolute sovereignty to do whatever he pleases "Shall not the judge of the earth do right". I cry for those who have gone into Hell and the suffering not only in Libya,Israel,Japan and North Korea and other countries!
In C S Lewis he says Pain is the microphone to wake people up to know he exists as People go living there lives without him ?

I was thankful for Franks post and the posts before?
I always make mistakes
Dom

William Booth once commented, when asked about his fears for the 20th Century, replied:

"The chief danger of the 20th century will be religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, and heaven without hell"

With the 21st Century moving along, this is not a fear, but a too-common reality among the churches. True faith cast aside without a fight. The defence of the Gospel abandoned. See the hallmarks - Churches which once sent missions to love the unloved, feed the hungry, heal the sick and be Christ's hands and feet, now bicker like children over wall-dressings, re-arranging deck chairs while the ship has headed to disaster. Look at Britain today to see what happens when the faithful give up. We do not stand, we do not sacrifice, we do not count the cost, we've stopped looking at Calvary, stopped having the fear of God before our eyes, and tried to re-engineer the Gospel, peddling to our fallen values of tolerance.

We, in this country, have thought we have known best about God, what he really means by love and kindness, but interpreted it according to our own fallen views, rather than according to the Spirit, the Divine Writer and the 'Leader into all Truth'. It is only when we return to him will we truly be restored.

Here is a sermon I preached on the subject a couple of weeks ago. I hope it helps give insight into the true love of God and exposes this obvious error from Rob Bell and his new Love Wins book.

http://jonahprojectlive.com/index.php?option=com_preachit&id=%2077&view=video&Itemid=6

There is so much in scripture (and life) taht we will never fully understand...many questions that will necer be answered. But there are things that the Bible is clear on and one of those things is that "God loved the world so much that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life". People like Bell don't like or understand God's love so they want to be people pleasers and liked by those who hate our God and they form a message that makes them popular and rich. Preachers have been doing this in diffrent ways for many years. If everyones going to heaven because Jesus loves them...why did he tell the church to "waste there time" by going into all the world and preaching the good news to all people. Rob Bell and others like him are attempting to make the gospel NOT good news by making an alternative message that they see as better news.
Paul would warn us that "If anyone comes to you preaching another gospel then what i've given you...let him be cursed!:

Mr. Bell on resurrection:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjXYlwvS5LY

Amen growingone

2 Peter 2

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD (KJV)

NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, GW

OMIT "BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD"

ESV:
But he answered, "It is written,

"'Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

NLT:
But Jesus told him, “No! The Scriptures say,

‘People do not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’"

NASB:
But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

NIV:
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’"

GW:
Jesus answered, “Scripture says, ‘A person cannot live on bread alone but on every word that God speaks.’ ”

Brother, they don't omit anything. They all mention that man doesn't live on bread alone, but on words from the mouth of God. They just don't say it EXACTLY using the word "proceedeth."

I believe in a literal Hell and the dangers of eternal torment and I enjoy the KJV, but what's most important is getting close to the accurate translation from the original Hebrew/Greek manuscripts. If "Sheol" means "place of the dead," then that's what it means. If the word doesn't mean "Hell" but it means something else, then it should be translated as so.

Even then, I think there are greater factors than modern Bible translations to confront the threat of the Emergent Church and those like Rob Bell who challenge the idea of Hell.