US preacher warns end of the world is nigh: 21 May, around 6pm, to be precise

The end of the world is nigh; 21 May, to be precise. That's the date when Harold Camping, a preacher from Oakland, California, is confidently predicting the Second Coming of the Lord. At about 6pm, he reckons 2 per cent of the world's population will be immediately "raptured" to Heaven; the rest of us will get sent straight to the Other Place.

If Mr Camping were speaking from any normal pulpit, it would be easy to dismiss him as just another religious eccentric wrongly calling the apocalypse. But thanks to this elderly man's ubiquity, on America's airwaves and billboards, his unlikely Doomsday message is almost impossible to ignore. ...

read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-preacher-warns-end-of-the-world-is-nigh-21-may-around-6pm-to-be-precise-2254139.html

I wonder if he wouldn't mind signing me over his house, and assets as of May 22nd, just as a sign of good faith. I should write him...

If if is ok to ask?

How is this thread any different than the Paul Washer thread?

In each thread a man's public words are being weighed. Is that slander? This thread could actually end up worse as this poor brother will be ridiculed and mocked. I saw another thread started about him recently (not sure who started it) but the man was mocked and ridiculed in that one.

Should we not be encouraging each other to pray?

Is it possible to ask the creator of the Paul Washer thread to change the title and then unlock it? We were having a very good conversation.

Respectfully,
A777

oh dear Harold....God knows. in my lil world, God willing i am closing on my ridge top property on 15 May, which would allow me 6 days of praying in the wildwoods, and i do NOT mean that tongue in cheek.

but for the Grace of God in 6 minutes, my heart could split open, and i'll go be with the Lord, clothes a bit singed.

such are the days we live in.

I was going to post something funny but thought better. The fact is this would be funny if it was not so sad. This is the stuff that makes Christians the laughing stock of the world..

This prophet knows more than any man, angel, or even the son, Jesus. I'm sorry, but he has heard the whispers of a lying spirit, that seeks to bring him shame.

One benefit that we can derive from this aberration, is to remember that "Thy Word IS TRUTH!"...and our Holy Bibles hold it.

Here is what Jesus Himself says about that day, and who He reveals the timing to. That would be no-one...just the Father. I'm glad about that. It takes a lot of pressure away from us Earthlings.

25. Behold, I have told you before.

26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35.Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

NO MAN.NOT AN ANGEL. ONLY GOD THE FATHER KNOWS.

On May 22, I hope he is broken enough to seek mercy, and find it...and if that comes to pass...I forgive him too. Most, however, do not turn to God in these circumstances.

What time zone is Jesus coming in on May 21st?

That's a good point. I might end up being raptured before everyone else. When the time comes I'll post what the second coming was like, so you in the Western Hemisphere know what to expect.

Ok. I have to ask this. If the second coming is at 6pm. What tine zone are we talking about and does this take into account daylight savings time???? Also are time computations based on the atomic clock in Ft. Collins CO.

Also has the fact that the sokar day been shortened due to the Jaoaneese earthquake. I mean these are really serious questions to ponder. Ok. Got the goofies put of my system. Please do not be offended by my post.

Forgive me for being so blunt, but this type of news is not even worth repeating. It would be the same thing displaying the daily horoscope, pure foolishness.

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

"Which minister questions" is the working of Satan. He works in this realm of doubts and disputations concerning the word.

The deceiver Harold Camping brings doubts and disputations which minister questions because after May 21 at 6:01pm many will.

It would be advisable to all if we leave the coming of the Lord to the timing of the Father and live in such a way that is pleasing to God so that we can always be ready when He comes or when we die unexpectedly.

HeartSong: Since others are ringing in, with their prophecies, including yourself, I'll throw this into the mix.

I received no date in this prophecy, but I know it is coming, and your right...the world as we know it, is coming to an end. The only thing that may change that, is a deep spirit of repentance sweeping across the land, turn to the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth....but I do not expect it. We are too hardened.

THERE IS ALWAYS GOODNESS AND GLORY FOR HIS OWN IN THE MIDST OF JUDGMENT.....FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM MORE THAN THEMSELVES.

I received the core of these Words in the 1990s..and some as late as 2003..and they came associated with the presence of God, and often with the audible Word of God.

There is a blessing within them for the faithful, I believe.

Justice and Glory
by Thomas Watkins

If this were my very last article that I ever wrote, or last encouragement, or warning, before my death, this would be it. It is the most valuable thing that I have to give, to serve the body of Christ.

We must be prepared for the holocaust that is riding these winds of judgment, and realize that this is from the Lord Jesus. We are waking up, even those of us who love slumber.

Over many years, the Lord has given me several interlocking revelations about His church in America. One important piece of that is THE END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM!

The Lord spoke that phrase, and revealed to me it would center around a “greed mortgage craze”, and there would be massive homelessness from the middle class, and riot like anger within the black and minority community. This was in 2003. A HOLY COMPANY WOULD THEN APPEAR. HERE:

http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/guest-author-the-end-of-the-american-dream/

But this is only a small portion of what we can expect to come, both in Glory, and in Judgment.

The end of the American dream is about the holiest company ever assembled in this country, emerging within the greatest financial judgment ever to be in this country. There are two types of judgment.

One has Mercy mixed in with it; a type of discipline that gives way to the possibility of repentance, of turning back to God’s way, away from our own, and being restored, healed by our tender Father.

Most of judgment is in this vein, because the Father is most merciful and gracious, and desires all to come to Him. He takes no pleasure in the death and destruction of the wicked. This financial judgment has mercy mixed in it, and God is leaving space for the Church, and America to repent, and believe.

The other type of judgment is a judgment when all mercies are depleted.

This is called Wrath. Consider Jeremiah’s many, many, ignored pleadings with Jerusalem, and then one of them was his last; for the Babylonian warriors broke through the wall and proceeded to rape, murder and plunder; and not even sparing the toddlers and infants.

It was a holocaust; a horror beyond thought; but it was real. One could argue that America was once the cradle of the FREE church of our Lord, maybe foremost in all of the Earth…in the days of her youth. If we have not become the “Great Whore who sits upon many waters”, I assure you that we are a part of her.

We despise Jesus, we mock Him, and MOST of our churches have a mere form of Christianity, but reject the power to become agents of His love and mercy. We are enamored with our own happiness, and promote our wills and lives. God has turned her over to the wolves.

“The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”

The Lord is defining Apostasy here. This is the “what” and “how” of why People fall away. God’s people have fell in love with their own lives. God has become an inconvenience, a burden, a slave master; and they will resist bending to Him or ANYONE, over their dead bodies.

THE ONLY MINISTERS THAT THEY ACCEPT ARE THE ONES THAT SPEAK OF PEACE AND PROSPERITY! We are seeing a flood of sorcerers and magicians and Usurpers that would be unimaginable 10 years ago; and our “Main Line” churches too!

A form of godliness wrapped in dead form; Void of the Spirit, yet glorying in doctrine and political correctness.This is why America as a country is being judged. “If the salt has lost it’s saltiness, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?” “TO BE CAST UPON THE DUNGHILL!”

That’s wrath; utter rejection derived from utter rebellion. In 2001, I was caught up in the Spirit with the Lord. It was a though I was traveling around the Earth with Jahweh; sailing high above, and watching the continents below. There were no rivers, cities, or wilderness; only a massive wheat field. The sun was shining, the wheat shimmered in a gentle wind.

The wheat was mature and golden; the sky was a Robin’s egg blue. It completely covered every bit of surface on these continents; the inhabited ones. Out of the substance of the Earth and the Sun and the Wheat the Lord Spoke; “IT’S HARVEST TIME!”... the vision ended.

For years I had misconceptions of the harvest as being a time of worldwide sweeping revival. I now know that it is not. The Harvest is the “End of the AGE!” The Harvest is the time of exposure, of light revealing and separating the darkness. The Harvest is a time of separation; a time when the evil look alike wheat is exposed for what it really is. POISON!

Matthew 13; verses:

24. Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25' ″But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26. ″But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27. ″The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
28. ″And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’
29. ″But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30. ′Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Remember this; “and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE!”; and the reapers are angels.”..vs:39

WE ARE SOON TO ENTER TRIBULATION. We are now experiencing the very beginning of the birth Pains of it. I will now share a very troubling set of visions that I was given, about the wrath part.

I was shown the INVASION of AMERICA by foreign armies. In the first vision, I was in the Spirit, and was peering through the reeds, on a bluff above the ocean, on American Soil.

I heard a terrifying thunder of a massive and numerous army marching. I heard the cadence of boots marching in step, so many that the earth shook. I trembled, yet I watched on. Out of the ocean, close to my hiding spot in the reeds, a foreign army arose right out of the sea.

These were foot soldiers, dressed in the camouflage stripes of another nation. They all had back packs, and assault weapons, but were staged to fight light, and mobile. They were terrifying in their sheer numbers and power.

A voice spoke to me over my right shoulder; a voice that I know. It was the voice of God, the Lord Jesus. He just said; “20 million.” I understood that this was the number of the invading army. I understood that they were an occupying and an invading army; and there goal was to blitzkrieg to the heart of the cities in overwhelming numbers, and once there, they would be impregnable.

Once inside of a city, with perhaps 500,000 men, we would be helpless. This would of course be a sneak attack; and would happen suddenly.

The corresponding vision I had several years before, was about an AIR WAR, on American soil, for AIR superiority before the main body is set to advance. This was near the exact area that I saw the armies rise. I saw a bombing war, with multitudes of attack planes.

I saw the enemy with waves and waves ; and when we think we have a chance, another and another wave of fighters and bombers dive in. I watched this war for a very, very long time, and as I saw it continue, I watched a very small object spinning out of the war, towards me. It was a tree, and as it approached me, it became larger and larger until I saw that it was a tree sent from God.

It was covered perfectly in most beautiful leaves; It was, “The tree for healing for all nations” spoken of in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is maturity in the Church. It is Jesus Himself alive in this end times Church, right here in America. The day is coming, when we will no longer be impotent, and lackadaisical.

Healing, and power over all of the work of the enemy will be deeds that are commonplace, and it will be the day of instant fruit the Amos prophesied of, when the treader of grapes would be overcome by he who sows the seed.

It will be the fullness of Jesus in His bride; It will be the Overcoming church; the Remnant Bride that has endured to the end, that loved Jesus more than her own way, her own life.

The very sad thing about this, is imminent judgment that must come. I believe that prior to this invasion we will be nuked, along with every military base in the world, and every nuclear ship, and missile base.

I believe that this [nuclear devastation] will primarily occur on the East coast, and some cities in the west. The Midwest will be left for food production. I was not shown this by the Lord; this is my own judgment, but I believe that this horror will leave 100 MILLION Americans dead before the end….TWO FOR ONE, FOR EVERY INNOCENT LIFE MURDERED THROUGH ABORTION!

This is Wrath on the unrepentant. I saw this invasion take place on the TEXAS COASTLINE and New Orleans area, on the same path as KATRINA.

It will be a time of horror, hand in hand with the Glory of the ages.

This is me; I was not shown this by the Lord, but I believe when this happens, we will be very close to the MIDDLE of this Great Tribulation. There will be 42 months, at least, to go. Jesus will rescue Israel, and the believers in all of the world then. We will then begin our eternity, as will the many damned, who hate God and his Christ.

I want to give you some signs upon the way, that the Lord has shown me.

I saw the company of real messengers, Apostles, that the Lord has ordained for America. They are broken and filled with holiness, and possessed with more authority that man could imagine. They hate the usurpers, Nicolaitans, and false apostles like the NAR and such, and will lay their lives down for the least of the brethren, whoever that those may be. They are filled with humility and love.

One of the signs that they have manifested is when we see, “AN AMERICAN BAND OF MARTYRS”…These will be saints that will go in the face of death and martyrdom to carry the gospel to foreign shores.

They will be butchered, and slaughtered, but behind them many more will follow, and this will be a pleasing aroma before the Lord. When you see and read of this, then you will know that real Godly apostles are here too, to shepherd the American flock through this tribulation and unto Jesus alone.

The second sign will be harder to perceive, but just as real.

We will begin to see saints that we would consider dead, destroyed and fallen away, restored. Many of them will have been wounded in the current WAR in the church, between an emerging humanist-new age gospel and “apostle” mindset that denies the CROSS, both as Jesus as the only way to God, and the cross that the individual MUST bear DAILY, as he dies to himself, to lives to God, and learns how to love.

People that you would not imagine, will return to the Love of Jesus, and become a blaze for God. It will be amazing, similar to Ezekiel’s “DRY BONES” vision…right here, in America.

There are TEN Virgins: All wake up, but all don’t survive. What is the keystone for the survivors?, and what did the victims of blindness lack? Oil for the lamps. It is the Holy Spirit flowing in relationship with He who stands among the candlesticks.

Everyone assumed they possessed it, but really only some did. This is the most important possession in your entire life, even for Eternity. Do you fellowship with Jesus? Do you know Him? Do you worship Him, in Spirit and in truth, or do you just have an idea of that, or a form of that?

Only one thing we will possess in this soon coming trouble is FAITH, a quiet assurance that we know Him who we have rested our soul upon.

Hebrews 11:33 "Who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
34. quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
35. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
36. and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
37. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were)put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
38. (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
40. because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect."

This was not written apart from us, even today, and it is more than a historical encouragement, it is a code, a living testament about how true saints will react to extreme hardship and persecution.

Do not be deceived into thinking that a farm in Idaho or a large storehouse will succor you in this time. It will not, and you will be very disappointed. As then, as now, Only a living faith in Jesus, sustained by daily bread, will enable you to endure unto the end; and the end for some of us will surely be martyrdom.

I see the church as a resurrected remnant; a little flock. I see her in twos and threes, where glory falls as well in many, many home churches and personal groups where real relationship will and is able to be cultured.

We are now yet in a time of grace where we all can repent, and return to our first loves; where we can determine a life “All for Jesus, No matter the COST!…We have space, but I promise you as I warn you; THE DOOR IS CLOSING!

Also, there is yet space where we can pray for America. Will she repent? Probably not, but Abraham wasn’t slowed up for SODOM, before the Lord with that probability, was he? It is possible that the number of that occupying force and army may be diminished, but not without repentance. Remember Nineveh.

We will need each other much more in the future, and Jesus most of all.

We will seek him continually in these times of trouble, and it is written; “The Lord has NEVER forsaken ANY who seek after Him.” This is the difference in having oil for your lamps, and being left without it, in the most dire of nights.

Jesus is Lord and Creator, and Satan, and every one of his devil angels that followed him, are nothing, and less than nothing before His glorious power. They are together less than a drop falling into a cavernous 55 gallon drum, and united less than a match head of chaff, in a forest fire. Jesus is but using the devil, and anti-Christ, to prove his purposes, and His faithful, and His Faithfulness.

When Jesus is done using him, he will be cast headlong into the lake of fire, where he will burn for eternity, along with his brother angels….[ AND ALL OF THE HUMAN LOST..] We are also a part of this trial, that will encompass the entire earth. We overcome by faith.

“BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, THE WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY, AND BY NOT LOVING OUR OWN SELF LIVES, EVEN UNTO DEATH!”

John said, in Revelation, “Your brother, in tribulation and patience.” That’s how it has to be.

brother Tom Watkins............BT

Hi BrotherTom,

That is certainly a lot to "munch" on.

In light of all you said, this resonates with me, regsarding the 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins.

"This is the most important possession in your entire life, even for Eternity. Do you fellowship with Jesus? Do you know Him? Do you worship Him, in Spirit and in truth, or do you just have an idea of that, or a form of that?"

A777

Phillip , the New Testament Preacher, had daughters that all prophesied, and Peter, and Paul...and of course Agabus, who also prophesied of destruction coming. The key here is not that there should be prophesying, but that it should always be judged.

Here are other scriptures in the Bible about prophesies

19.Quench not the Spirit.

20.Despise not prophesyings.

21.Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
.....................................................
and.............
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30. "If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

Thank-you ginnyrose!

So often I get focused on the end-times so much, I forget what the end time is about....The Glorious return of Jesus....when time stops....and every eye beholds JAHWEH JESHUA the Son......and He gathers us together.

Latin....THE RAPTURE!!!!!!...This is the way we'll post....with a shout of JOY!!! Hey Ginnyrose...It's me! Brothertom!......while we feast at a wedding...ours!!!!...and are bonded in His Love forever and ever with the body of Christ....from Adam on.

We'll have an eternity to get to know every saint ever redeemed...real well....in absolute holiness and life.

This is the Prize...the Pearl of great price....that the buyer gave everything he had and went away rejoicing.

Jesus gave everything He had to gain us, and we must give everything we have to gain Him. That is the nature of His love. pretty neat, I think.

The suffering coming will be slight, to gain Him and His Heaven.

Many of us are not deceived into Historicism neither.

That's more false than a sister seeing the New Madrid Fault line cracking up - just as many scientists are and just because she feels she saw a date - doesn't make her a false prophet. I strongly feel that your teaching/pushing that "the book of the Revelation has already been fulfilled and the antiChrist has already come with Nero" is FAR MORE Dangerous than what our Sister feels in her heart and doesn't start threads Pushing her belief on others. Hmm :p

I think you should lighten up on everybody else man.

Who will be repenting more someday?

Worship GOD in "Spirit and in TRUTH".

Weelll, Everest, I have a question: either you do not expect to be raptured or you expect to take your computer with ya because how else could you post?

I was just joking. Kind of like when someone says they know the day that Christ is coming back. Such things should only be met with laughter.

(am sorry, please, please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'd say you're a woman, right?)

He's actually a dude. Don't feel bad though, the rest of us only recently found out as well.

Very recently I had a dream about the Lord that changed my way of thinking. There were many things that I saw in the dream but one of them stood out the most and that is God is not in our debates. He is not even in our discussions bickering about what each of us believe. Where two or three are gathered together in HIS NAME. In His Name means doing His will, listening to what the Spirit is saying and not "our take" of what the scriptures are saying to us.

In the dream I saw believers sitting around with Jesus and we were in one accord until someone spoke up in a doubtful manner saying, "How does one know they are saved?". Another spoke up across the room and started arguing about once saved always saved. While the room was filled with discussion, I noticed our Lord was no longer sitting with us but had left the room. The way He came was by a narrow winding path and when He left I saw Him on this trail going back up the side of the mountain. I was instantly subdued. My ambition to be "right" about what I "believe" didn't matter anymore. And this is the reason why I don't come on here much.

There is only one coming that I am looking for and that is Christ coming in revival power. I saw Jesus coming in revival power in the dream, it was so heavy that no flesh could glory in His presence, that is the only coming that I am looking for.

this single sentence is grieving me right now, I just feel as if I made The Lord leave

After the dream I woke up and wept for several days. I was literally subdued. I felt like Joshua when the Lord said to him "as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" Joshua 5:14. In my strength I was demanding an answer in verse 13, in my defeat when I heard His voice I had no question to protect self, but as the scriptures says, "Looking unto Jesus". When I am defending what I believe, I am defending self with a holiness front. Jesus spoke the word and it was done. When I defend my belief I cut and devour and in my mind I think that I am "right" in my doctrine. But I am seeing more clearly that our doctrine has nothing to do with what is written on paper, but it's a way of life written on the tables of our heart "doing" the will of God.

This is just a small portion of that dream, there were other parables, scenes in the dream that I had written down, all bears the scriptural signature.

Defending self may or may not be appropriate. We cannot go against what is written based upon anyone's dreams, visions, words, etc.

On this thread - we see an example of defending or protecting others in "the Family" and whenever that is the case - that is where Jesus would approve.

Bullying is wrong and that is what we saw on this thread and anyone defending a sister against bullying is Not wrong.

Protecting the Saints from false doctrines or beliefs is also 100% Scriptural.

We need to understand when defense is Biblically appropriate and Only from His Word.

The Apostle Paul gives everything we need to know about how the Body should work appropriately together and 'for' each other.

We 'personally' may be very 'sensitive' to disputes of Any type and so much so that we may even have dreams about it --- but if we "Don't go beyond what is written" - we'll see that there are definitely times when we Must step in to protect the lambs or else we're not being our brother's keeper nor do we love or feel empathy toward them, but we're merely being self-concerned cowards if we don't stand in the gap to protect our fellows, either doctrinally or from bullying.

This is all that needs saying - What does Paul show us through the book of Acts and All of his Epistles? That ends any questions..

Glad you Brothers brought this back up. This man has a Lot of followers. He's making a mockery of Christianity.
I agree with you Oracio. There's no excuse for a "Public figure" to be "off". None whatsoever.

There is a difference in one little person thinking they got a date for an event that's been talked about by FEMA and Scientists and only shares it with her close associates and already knows what to do if she's wrong ... but these men or women in "ministries" are Extremely accountable. And the larger the ministry, the more accountable I feel that they are.

We can excuse someone who we are in contact with - say on a Forum or in our local church (as long as it's not a leader in the church) but when a person "leads" - Oh Boy - I'm with you both 100%.

Thank you both for taking this back to the main topic.

Chris,

The sad part of all of this is that, come May 22nd, this man will probably just fade away and come back later with yet another outlandish claim.

You don't know how right you are. He has already done this.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/harold_camping.htm

I was too gentle with him in an earlier post.

If at first you don't succeed,,,,,

A777

HeartSong = 5 days

2011/5/6 10:52

That's the Japanese time when it was posted, and it still would have been May 5th in all American time zones I believe.

Maybe my figures are wrong, but assuming this was written from America, (not that it would technically matter) it being the 5th when the post was written.... doesn't five plus five come out to ten?

And I think that Heartsong said the 12th if I'm not mistaken. So technically if she did speak presumptuously in the name of the Lord, wouldn't she have until the 13th, AFTER whatever is supposed to happen either comes or doesn't come, to repent?

Last time I checked none of us have visited the 12th of May 2011 and been back to tell about it. Maybe God did speak to her, and maybe He didn't. We won't know until the 12th, right?

Again, maybe I'm just bad at math, and 5 + 5 does equal 12 or 13.

Umm, yeah.... the section you quoted says,

How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing doth not follow, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Last time I checked my calendar, it's still the 6th. And as of now, I don't believe one way or the other that God spoke to her or didn't speak to her. If it was just some first posting random stranger I wouldn't pay any attention to it whatsoever, however this isn't the case. Guess we'll find out on the 12th, yeah? Especially since the verse says "if the thing doth not follow, nor come to pass," and not "as soon as any prophecy is given demand repentance".

The two statements look rather different to me.

One is some guy saying that he knows the day that Christ is coming back to judge the world, which the Bible says no one knows, the other is someone saying that the world that we (I'm assuming she means Americans)know, could drastically change. Either way, 5 + 5 doesn't equal 12 (as I'm still scratching my head to the time you alloted). If 11:59 PM May 12th rolls around with nothing happening, than yes, it is time to publicly repent. Until then though, we just wait and see. Nothing by Heartsong that I've read in the post has was unBiblical.

YET...

The 12th will tell.

There will undoubtedly come a day when we all will say that our world has changed forever.I believe that we still have some time to repent, as a Nation, before then. I do not, however believe that we will, as a nation.

I recently finished watching "THE CIVIL WAR", by Ken Burns; a documentary. In it, toward the end of the War, Lincoln, and others made comments about the Divine Nature of it all; as though it were a play, a hideous and awful one, that must be played out...wound out like a clock, until it was finished.

Many of the chief players were Deists, and many were devout and holy Christians; both North ans South. The war turned out to be chiefly about slavery. There were abuses done to the African slaves that are unthinkable.

They were judicated in the Dredd-Scott case to be property, not human Beings; This was the Supreme Court of the U.S. that judged this.

At the end, many came to this conclusion; That Jahweh the Father judged America for innocent blood shed, in the atrocities of Slavery. 600,000 American men were slain at the end.

Innocent blood must always cry out to the Father, as in the case of the first murder, of the first innocent, by the first born of mankind; Cain and Abel. Innocent blood cries out until it is avenged.

We have murdered 50 million of our own innocent children through the atrocity of Legalized Abortion. I believe that Americas reward will be a payment of 100 MILLION lives...as atonement. Two for ONE for each and every aborted soul. 1/3rd of American lives will be lost in a coming war.

I have seen this war, and the invasion of America by foreign armies; to occupy her. In the series of visions I have had, I believe that we will have at least 42 months AFTER the air war;[ which we will lose] to establish air superiority over the land.....Before the return of Jesus.

There will be a great Tribulation, and a "BEAST".

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 (New King James Version)
"Do not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

Is Harold Camping, or others who prophesy more accurate than Paul, or Jesus?......

29. “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Has the Tribulation been happening? Has the "man of sin" been revealed? Has the sun been darkened. No. But it is coming.

What manner of people ought we to be?

Tom asked: "Has the Tribulation been happening? Has the "man of sin" been revealed? Has the sun been darkened. No. But it is coming.

What manner of people ought we to be?"

Good post Brother Tom.

---------------------------------------

The rest is silliness because the only 'event' that our sister is referring to is .....

THE NEW MADRID FAULT LINE AND EARTHQUAKES in that vicinity.

Anyone can do a search on that event and just add words like "FEMA" or "Floods", etc. and see that even if the exact date may or may not be off - the scenario cannot be in any way compared to Harold Camping's.

Below is a recent news article - that many who are watching this Fault Line - the technical aspect of it - are also factoring in.
The first time our sister brought this topic up was months ago - before the floods and said that she Prays she's wrong - but the Fault Line keeps coming up from secular sources as well. So - I join her in prayer and have since she first posted it months ago. But since all of this rain and flooding - there's been articles that mention the possible pressure of this much water on this Fault Line and why we've been seeing earthquakes in Arkansas and other places.

Here's the latest from last night on the Mississippi River -

"River Could Remain at Flood Stage for a Month" by Tealy Devereaux

Memphis, Tn - Emergency Management says though the number could go up or down, 20 to 22 thousand people could be impacted by the Mississippi River’s impending flood.

While Memphis and Shelby County are forecasting to dry out during the next 7 days,

those planning for the river’s 48 foot crest ON MAY 11th

don’t want the lack of rainfall to fool residents.

“You look now, there’s nothing there. That has nothing to do with the threat bearing down on us from the Mississippi River,” said Bob Nations with the Office of Preparedness.

The National Weather Service says the water, once it crests, could stay up for more than a month. Meaning, that the river would sit at 48 feet for up to seven days, but then will stay over flood stage for much longer.

Richard Okulski, with the National Weather Service said, "We could be seeing perhaps above 40 feet toward the end of May then flood stage being 34 feet into early June."

To help people plan, 17 zip codes have been identified as places where flooding could take place. 6 area schools are included in those zip codes.

The people behind the County’s mapping system say Memphis’ Northside High School could be hit worst of all.

The Tennessee Emergency Management Agency says it doesn’t have an answer yet on the Governor’s $10 million Federal Funding Request, and expects more requests for help to join it in the coming days.

James Bassham with TEMA urges everyone not to let their guard down, “Don't depend on somebody to show up and take care of you. Take responsibility, maybe somebody next door doesn't have that capability."

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/local/river-could-remain-at-flood-stage-for-a-month-rpt-2011-05-04

Just one of many articles out there right now on the flooding etc.

ETA: These folks need our prayers ... another Article ....

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/mississippi-delta-flooding-dpgapx-20110506-fc_13080635

Thanks again Tom and others.

Thanks JesusisGod. One thing I'm seeing is the unusual number of people believing that something has changed; that we are entering the Armageddon time.....even common unbelievers. Many sense the end is near.

Is it possible that the Lord has brought the Earth to be aware of the coming Tribulation, and that He is real, and will also reveal Himself??

The severe financial downturn presenting real fear about a coming depression, coupled with the threat of terrorism, another 9/11....and then the series of disasters the world has endured......The Tsunami of Christmas 2004, Katrina, and four unbelievable Hurricanes also.

Them add in Japan, with the Chernobyl fear, her Tsunami and a 9.2 monster quake,,,,and add in Haiti, Peru, and several more devastating quakes...[very powerful]. Many people are scared deep inside...and know that life is not business as usual. Yet, the depravity seems to increase.

20. "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk."

21. "Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

In the end, most people are afraid of dying, and losing the life that they love so much; but not so interested in honoring Jesus as God and Lord, or receiving Him.

"The severe financial downturn presenting real fear about a coming depression, coupled with the threat of terrorism, another 9/11....and then the series of disasters the world has endured......The Tsunami of Christmas 2004, Katrina, and four unbelievable Hurricanes also."

"Them add in Japan, with the Chernobyl fear, her Tsunami and a 9.2 monster quake,,,,and add in Haiti, Peru, and several more devastating quakes...[very powerful]. Many people are scared deep inside...and know that life is not business as usual. Yet, the depravity seems to increase."....WHY?

20. "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk."

21. "Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.".............................................

In the end, most people are afraid of dying, and losing the life that they love so much; but not so interested in honoring Jesus as God and Lord, or receiving Him.

AMERICA AND THE INDESTRUCTABLE QUEEN OF THE SEAS

I thought early this morning of the Titanic, and her final hours. The iceberg had ripped her side open, and the bulkheads were filling up one by one. She slid nose down finally, into the icy waters. Great America...and now...California is in financial chaos, with about 160 billion in debt herself, with a brazen refusal to stop gorging herself on ludicrous excess. [ this does not count the unfunded entitlements she must honor, which run into more than a trillion...]

Add in New York, and Illinois ...and the sure end to Social Security, hyper inflation, and the general National debt of 14 trillion. This does not consider unfunded entitlements, such as government pensions, social and educational benefits down the road, which swell our debt into the ludicrous...maybe 60 or 70 TRILLION!

Will the whore stop gorging herself? Not while the food is on the table, the wine is free, and there's a little perfume in the cupboard to mask the stench of the abortion mills with rivers of blood flowing by of the 50 million innocent children slaughtered at her convenience.

"Babies mean my pleasure is nothing but shrinkage...and I need more..." America...And the band played on. I thought of the band singing songs of faith, even to the very last....and as into the sea she slid.

Isaiah 24

Isaiah 24
The LORD’s Devastation of the Earth
1 See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth
and devastate it;
he will ruin its face
and scatter its inhabitants—
2 it will be the same
for priest as for people,
for the master as for his servant,
for the mistress as for her servant,
for seller as for buyer,
for borrower as for lender,
for debtor as for creditor. [ THESE ARE THE SEAS INTO WHICH WE SINK.]
3 The earth will be completely laid waste
and totally plundered.
The LORD has spoken this word.
4 The earth dries up and withers,
the world languishes and withers,
the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people;
they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
and broken the everlasting covenant. [OVER AND OVER AND OVERM AMERICA THE WHORE..]
6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth;
its people must bear their guilt.
Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up,
and very few are left.
7 The new wine dries up and the vine withers;
all the merrymakers groan.
8 The joyful timbrels are stilled,
the noise of the revelers has stopped,
the joyful harp is silent.
9 No longer do they drink wine with a song;
the beer is bitter to its drinkers.
10 The ruined city lies desolate;
the entrance to every house is barred. [SHE HAS SLIPPED UNDER THE WATERS]
11 In the streets they cry out for wine;
all joy turns to gloom,
all joyful sounds are banished from the earth.
12 The city is left in ruins,
its gate is battered to pieces.
13 So will it be on the earth
and among the nations,
as when an olive tree is beaten,
or as when gleanings are left after the grape harvest.

Here is a vision I received in 2003. I have prophesied it to many.

The End of the American Dream
by Thomas Watkins

I’m writing about something sacred to me, and you will understand as I go on. I am 59, and I have been given dreams and visions, along with many other experiences with God since 1972, the year of my salvation and indwelling. In general , I have not shared them, except in a limited way, and that as the Lord has led.

In March, 2003, six years ago , I was in the spirit in a vision.

I saw a most beautiful company of men and women preparing for an event. They were Christians, and fearfully holy, and beautiful. They were dressed in simple and humble attire.

They were not young, nor old. It reminded me of the military days when I and my fellow soldiers would prepare for a mission, gathering material and supplies and strategy. These were the holiest people I have ever imagined. They glowed with Heaven’s Presence, and their eyes were like lamps; emitting light and love. They were frightening.

The scene changed and I saw a multitude of American people , trudging along like the bomb-out of Dresden Germany….refugees..men with dirty suits, with heads down , homeless, in a crowd that poked along for miles and miles. Children held the hands of parents, trudging along, with a general air of depression and despair. They had lost everything.

Every molecule of the sky and the Earth and the substance of that vision spoke a word….”THE END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.” I also knew it would center around a “mortgage greed craze.”

The scene changed again, and I was there, watching as another mass of people were trudging along. They were all minorities, mostly black and Hispanics. I then realized that the first group were all white. The difference being that they, the minorities were very, very angry…..riot motivated angry. These crowds stretched for miles. “The End of the American Dream.” was over them all. These too, had lost everything…homes, cars, and all luxuries and possessions: they were in the street.

I can only guess at the numbers…..maybe a total of about 3 million split between both groups. I saw signs of traditional ministries following this group…but without much impact.

The vision ended.

Implications and thoughts.

Firstly, I think the fall of the American economy and dream is permanent. I do not think that we will ever see America rise to the prosperity levels that we saw previous to October 2008. It is over. I could say, “never to rise again.”

Secondly, it is going to get much, much worse. If 3 million people are homeless, then it means that many more were displaced, perhaps 20 to 25 million. The 3 million are just those who have no friends or family to take them in.

Thirdly, the economy will not recover…ever.

The economy is collapsing, along with jobs. We will see the fuller impact beginning the summer of 09′. Renters also will be affected, and perhaps more vulnerable. Everyone has bought into the idea that your CREDIT RATING is the thing that makes you a success. The Lord showed me men in dirty suits, which reads to me that the middle and the upper middle class will also be there among them. The rich, and the nearly rich have acquired debt as a lifestyle, to enjoy and be entitled to the American dream to the fullest. From gourmet Pet food, to the “better colleges”, classy cars, along with the “Prize”…the 5 bedroom brick Tudor semi-mansion in the ‘burbs….the middle class has taken the bait…and who will deliver them?

All believed that America would just go on putting out for ever..and it would never end. It has now.

As I write, the largest reverse migration in American history is happening: Mexican migrants returning to Mexico. In the past several months, over 2 million have returned home to the south, to survive with their families. There is no longer the construction industry. It has vanished, along with the absence of a credit market. The mass exodus continues, and the poor and service industries are always the first to fall.

Why?

There are 4 sins that are paramount in the last days; Immorality, Murder, Theft and Sorcery. America was founded in Christian Puritanical beliefs, that spread throughout her government and judicial system, and the fibers of every realm of society. Volumes could, and are written on her demise, but it is suffice to say that America, hand in hand with the freedom to do ANYTHING she likes, or is pleasurable, (has believed) it is our RIGHT: guaranteed by our constitution.

This can be paralleled with ancient Israel as they often drifted the same way…and through out time, the Lord has so dealt with Nations by sending judgment.

JUDGMENT FIRST MUST BEGIN WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD!

The CHURCH is the salt of the Earth, and the American Church has, overall, lost her saltiness, her savor. We have been exposed, uncovered as one loving prosperity, and living and loving such riches as the prior Kings of the Earth knew not. We have willfully believed that happiness, health and prosperity have become our rights! God has ordained that we are the head, and not the tail.

There is no longer a Word about Sin, for there really is no sin, just principles! God is all inclusive, and God is Love. If there is no sin, then there is no repentance, and we are Earth bound.

Of course, we will fly away to more luxury and peace later, but that is in the by and by. The Blood of Jesus is no longer the pillar of our faith..but instead our pillar is the living of a purpose filled life, and that with your best life NOW! Happiness and Prosperity, along with good health to make you live longer and enjoy it, of course.

The end of the matter and conclusion concerning this sordid and unbiblical church is simple. THE CHURCH NO LONGER NEEDS GOD, or HER GLORIOUS MASTER, THE LORD JESUS! He exists only to serve her, like a butler, and to protect her rights, and of course, she shall never suffer.

When this vision is matured, the Church will realize that she does need God. The church will need Him more than she ever believed she would.

Judgment:Immorality. America and pornographic Hollywood, making billions yearly, importing our filth to nations that still blush, not being Christian. We have elevated sodomy to the halls of congress, and marry homosexuals. We teach our children, by law, the rightness of inclusiveness: that this is natural and must be accepted. We sell sex , millions of times a day on our airwaves, and are awash in sexual enhancement products, and endorse public displays of horrific and blasphemous “art forms”.

It is indeed a river of filth, and shows no signs of abating. Watch one minute of VH1 or MTV. This is our legacy.

Judgment: Murder. Over 50 million innocent children taken (alive) from their mothers wombs; that’s one out of six today in America. Don’t worry, God has covered His eyes, and didn’t see. Violence and death, and the “mass murderer”. This was generally unknown in America, with very few exceptions. It is a spirit.

My own brother was murdered, assassinated. The murderer was never brought to man’s justice. The US government does not hesitate to do so either, if it serves our political interest.

Remember KHADAFI?, and his tent in the sand…and his daughters that were blown to bits by an American cruise missile?

Judgment: Theft. I have written in my Bible, “THE BANKING SPIRIT.” Every element of business has morphed into a predator mentality, from the car dealer, to the investment Banker and your local bank, to the mechanic and Neighbor, Fairness, and doing the right thing has been replaced by deception and greed, to profit. It is a jungle out there, and everyone wants to rip you off. Have you ever felt that way? That’s because theft is rampant…

Judgment: Sorcery. Witchcraft and her covens are growing exponentially. Harry Potter, and some 30 TV shows and more cartoons about the occult are feeding our children a steady diet of satanism, not counting the hundreds of dark video games they devour. Well, as long as they are quiet!

The other side of sorcery is DRUGS: We have joyfully embraced drugs for any and all discomfort or pressure or unhappiness. Psychotropic drugs that “calm the nerves”, are casually dubbed “MEDICATION”; PSYCHOLOGICALLY EQUATING IT WITH REAL CURES, like penicillin, or the Polio cure. It is not. they are drugs…dopa!

The medical practice of the Physician has been reduced to a pill pusher…a pill for everything!It is the chief advertising dollar in America. It is estimated that one in six Americans use Marijuana.

Methamphetamine’s are a plague to mid America. Our prisons are bursting, overcrowded two to one , or worse. Thousands are beheaded and murdered today, as we speak, in Mexico over control of the dealing of this evil lust and addiction inside America.

You cannot tell the difference between the Church, and the World….except that possibly the Church doesn't drink and party as much, and goes to meeting on Sunday.

RIGHT NOW, AMERICA DOESN’T NEED GOD, NOR DOES THE CHURCH. SHE IS LAODICEAN! SHE IS RICH, AND HAS NEED OF NOTHING.

Hope and Faith

God will provide. He has never forsaken one who has put their trust in Him, never! He has never broken a Promise, never, to any who Love Him, and even to those who call upon His Name!

There is a great division coming however, and it will prove to be a division between those who love Him, or love their own lives more.

How will we respond without prosperity? Will we be, as righteous Job, and still trust and say: “Even though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him!”, or will we be selfish, and despise His chastening, and Him too, when things are no longer? How will we relate to the homeless, the poor?, and especially to Christians that have lost everything? (see Acts 4:32) Will we open or homes, and will we give? Even unto our last cup of meal and oil to cook it with?

Will we give all unto the Lord, no matter the cost, or circumstances? Will we lay our lives down for our brother and sisters, no matter what?..or..will we get all we can, and can all we get? Some will…and the days of Ananias and Sapphira will return again. (see Acts 5:1-11 )

This will end in a purified church. The true Church will be greatly affected, for when we suffer, we stop playing Church, and become the Church.

There will be a shift from institutionalized pew sitters, and the clergy laity model, to the BODY, edifying itself in Love. The “House Church will become the norm, and the professional clergy will dry up for lack of money, and real anointing. The least of the Brethren will become a battle cry, and for those who want Jesus, their compassion’s will abound and increase, even unto abandonment…..and that is what this HOLY company is about.

They will be completely abandoned to Christ, and will impart that spirit. They will take the lead as examples, to minister to a grieving America, and will do so in real Power and Love.

There will again be a difference between the holy and the profane, and it will be obvious.

The catastrophe will be the stepping stone to REVIVAL, but not in the way of REFORMATION. It will be upheaval….a Revolution! It will be a rebirth, a true renewal based on Resurrection Life from Heaven, not reform in Doctrine only.

Many, many will return to Christ, and many will receive Him as Savior, as they behold real Glory and Love. Many will go on in their dead religion, and reject compassion. Many lost will be saved, and there also will be real healing’s and signs, that are indisputable, accompanied by brothers and sisters who want no glory of their own. Holiness will be all about them, and all will see.

This will be an awesome time for those willing to pay the price. We may not have a lot, but the promise is, “God will provide!” - this is a conditional promise however, fulfilled unto those who honor, fear, and Love Him.

Remember these words:

“AS MUCH AS YOU HAVE DONE IT UNTO THESE, THE LEAST OF THESE MY BROTHERS, YOU HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME!”

Jesus will become the rise and fall unto many. Many religious people and false Pastors and Prophets will be exposed in this pressure….Many. Many holy will gain Jesus, and true Salvation in this time. There will be those who give all, and truly please their Master. It will be, as the old novel begins, “THE BEST OF TIMES, AND THE WORST OF TIMES.”

The best for those who fall at His feet, and say: “JESUS IS LORD. IT IS HE, AND HE ALONE WHO IS LORD!” - to the rest, it will be the worst.

God himself is in the center of this “Meltdown”, and it is He who is applying the fire!”

Brother Thomas Watkins

**

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,......

THERE IS HOWEVER ANOTHER COMPANY , THAT ESCAPED INTO THE ARMS OF A LOVING AND PROVIDING FATHER..

ISAIAH 24.........THOSE WHO TRUST THEIR CREATOR JESUS, AND HIS BLOOD......
"They raise their voices, they shout for joy;
from the west they acclaim the LORD’s majesty.
15 Therefore in the east give glory to the LORD;
exalt the name of the LORD, the God of Israel,
in the islands of the sea.
16 From the ends of the earth we hear singing:
“Glory to the Righteous One.” "

WE HAVE A LITTLE SPACE TO REPENT. LET US GIVE OUR ALL TO HIM NOW! EVERYTHING IN OUR LIVES WILL BURN, THAT WE POSSESS....EVEN OUR BODIES. IN THE END, WE WILL EITHER HAVE JESUS, OR NOTHING. OUR CHILDREN WILL STAND BEFORE HIM TOO, AND THE BEST WE CAN GIVE THEM IS TO TRUST JESUS.

VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TIMES ARE RIGHT AT THE DOOR. 9/11 WAS THE ICEBERG!

IT HAS CHANGED THE EARTH...AND THE END HAS BEGAN. KNOW JESUS.KNOW JESUS. HE HAS NEVER FORSAKEN ANYONE WHO HAS PUT THEIR TRUST IN HIM.

The point?
by ccchhhrrriiisss............

"I have to wonder that IF those specific prophetic claims do not come to pass, will the person who made those claims wisely refrain from making such public claims in the future? Or will that person continue to make bold public claims based upon what they "think" is God's leading?

In the case of Harold Camping, we see a history of bogus claims. I would hope that he finally learns his lesson about making such claims. I also hope that, if he fails to do so, true believers will not support him.".............

Good one....and I also see a broader strategy....by inundating the public with a baptism of liars, kooks, and "prophetic" wizards..all in the Name of Jesus of course..there is subtly established that ALL of the prophetic gifting and the supernatural strength of the Church as also dubious.

Consider the backlash of Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, and even Paul Cain....many were wounded, and in their pain and bewilderment, tossed the entire supernatural and the prophetic out with the bathwater.

The early church thrived upon prophetic power....and consider the Revelation of Jesus through John the Apostle....pure prophetic waters.

So, did God shut His mouth; go mute until His coming? Of course not...but Satan would have you believe that by parading these liars in front of us; and by their obvious hucksterism imply that all prophesy and prophetic people are birds of a feather.

Did you consider that Camping may have had a visitation by a demon, exhibiting himself as an angel of light? Many have; and it is REAL.....it may have really happened. If so, his pride [undealt with] could have convinced him that he heard straight from God...

So...Two things.

1.] You shall know them by their fruit.

2.] The Word and The Spirit AGREE!

The Bible says...Mark 13:31-33 (New King James Version)

31. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour!

32. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is."

So, Harold Camping is surely greater than all angels, and all mankind. He prophesied it.

See you on the 22nd.

"But, how are such individuals held accountable for their words?
Should the Body of Christ permit individuals to make a "prophetic" proclamation that can't be fully substantiated by the Word of God?"...ccchhhrrriiisss.

Consider the prophet Agabus in the Early Church....and consider the Apostolic prophesies of Peter, Paul, and John.
Consider the entire book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Much of it is so specific, it can only be hammered into existing scripture. Agabus prophesied about a coming famine. John claimed to see Jesus as God...and taken up in an amazing supernatural journey.

Paul prophesies of the coming falling away, evil days, perilous times, and the man of sin to be revealed, while directly prophesying an order of the events to come.....mostly unsubstantiated by the Word of God in a direct way.

On the other hand, the Word of God easily disproves Camping's date setting , by declaring that no man knows. In this sense, it is held up to the light of the word, and then disproved.

In the end, though, most of the church sets aside the gifts of discernment, by rejecting them, or belittling them. We have discernment, and a "bearing witness", that often bears witness with Peace, and the fruit of a particular man or woman, that trumps their vocalization.

"But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.

25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Order in Church Meetings, and Prophesying.

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

!!!Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. !!!

30. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.

31.!! For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.

32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. !!

I don't think that many , if any of these prophesies were substantiated by the Word of God...but discerned and judged by other prophetic people.

One command we can be sure of...1 Thess. 5......

"Do not quench the Spirit.

20. Do not despise prophecies.

21. Test all things; hold fast what is good."

By quenching the freedom to prophesy, it was as though you quenched the Holy Spirit.

All prophesy should be judged, not stopped. Neither God, nor His church has changed directions...but man has.

Ccchhhrrriiisss: I see your point crystal clear, and want to say that we are on the same page...and I will take a stab at an answer to the question below that may be at the heart of your dilemma............BT

....ccchhhrrriiisss said;..."Interestingly, I think that many modern false prophets don't realize that they are false prophets...because they do believe that they are working for the Lord.

Without some sort of accountability, they -- like Harold here -- will continue to utter such sincere lies in the future. "

I do not think there will ever be accountability in these issues, in the type of men you describe. This brings us to the root of the solution....and it has to do with AUTHORITY. Who has the authority to actually rebuke, or censor men like this....or any of the plethora of goof-balls, and Satanic deceivers.

Let us consider one of the more famous [ infamous ] christian deceivers in American history; Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church. He was somewhat of a witchy fellow, who practiced things like noodling for water with a forked stick, reading livers of animals, stuffed toads, seer stones, and the general accoutrement's of an occultic sorcerer.

He found his calling with the naive in his interpretation of Christianity...and considered himself the gate to all Christians entering Heaven. [ He got himself possessed, thus enhancing his intellect..]...and began to rewrite the bible, mixing in Masonic symbolism, and spoke of the angel Moron.....i. He began to accrue weak women too....over 40 of them, who he claimed to be divinely inspired wives. He even formed a rather large army for protection etc.

Where was the accountability in Smith's life? Non existent, except perhaps to the Devil himself. Accountability in the Kingdom only works in a local, Apostolic..[ not the denomination...] church, where the church Elders...Shepherds....oversee , feed and protect the local church from the wolf.

Thus, when a member is deceived, in rebellion, or participating in deep wickedness...[ see 2Corinthians]; the elders may act, and declare him excommunicated ...usually until repentance comes.

Those that are outside of the local church, or a tightly knit body with true Apostolic covering...are never subject to this authority....They are a law unto themselves...exactly like the wicked liar Smith.

So...we see varying degrees of deception and sin...and I liked your testimony of being through the mill...so to speak. Many may not believe it...but I do...for I have seen the same....bizarre as it may seem.

Extra-local Ministries do whatever, say whatever, and profit off whatever they can....brazenly...and will never give account to anyone...especially their Creator...Jesus.

Sadly...their are those that follow...and Nothing can be done, as I see it, except what we do....Expose it as we encounter it, for the sake of the weak and the lost.

Many know exactly who they serve...and do so with relish. Our job, as older brothers, or shepherds, must be to build a safe house for His children, and never stop proclaiming the Truth in love.

Acts 20-30..."Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

29. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears."

The heart of a man who loves God's children. The heart of a Shepherd.This we must faithfully perform, when the occasion arises.

"I just wonder if there is a way to hold such individuals with "loose" words accountable for what they say."

Tough call. I'd say yes but where would we start?

DW had a few off ones - yet we respect his 'on' ones.

I'm as angry at the truely false-prophets as anyone but where do we begin and then 'how' do we act out this accountability?

I hold those that teach false doctrine - even if it's just 2% off JUST AS accountable as a false prophet. The New Testament holds both equally responsible.
I know no man on earth that is 100% innerant in his beliefs or teachings but to me - it's a question of discernment.

Harold Camping is both a false prophet and a false teacher and he's followed by many.

I believe that, to the degree it affects other's lives in a dangerous way - to that degree we Do hold them accountable.

We need to include "teaching" with "prophesying" - they're too much alike - as in - claiming to be the words of The LORD.

So, to the degree that "words" produce a spiritually dangerous misconception of GOD or His Ways or the way that men 'should go' - to that degree we hold them accountable. Oh Yes, Amen to that.

If what a person teaches or "predicts" doesn't affect your life in the slightest nor anyone else's - then just the test of time should teach them their own lesson - besides The LORD GOD Himself being the "convicter".

We must see teaching the same way that we see prophesying.

There are more false-teachers [that we won't/don't touch] than there are major-false-prophets.

I suppose this is about 'major and minors' as well or after all.

I hate to be cynical; but I bet many of his faithful congregation..[ Radio and such] who believed him gave a bunch of their treasure to his ministry.

What use would it be to them on May 22nd?

He may be quite willing to be wrong, but will he be quite willing to refund their gifts?

Could be his strategy.

No! It happened in 1994
I say this because:
This is not Campings first rodeo. In 1994 he pulled the same stunt, and profited. ....................

"Camping, 88, has scrutinized the Bible for almost 70 years and says he has developed a mathematical system to interpret prophecies hidden within the Good Book. One night a few years ago, Camping, a civil engineer by trade, crunched the numbers and was stunned at what he’d found: The world will end May 21, 2011.

This is not the first time Camping has made a bold prediction about Judgment Day.

On Sept. 6, 1994, dozens of Camping’s believers gathered inside Alameda’s Veterans Memorial Building to await the return of Christ, an event Camping had promised for two years. Followers dressed children in their Sunday best and held Bibles open-faced toward heaven.

But the world did not end.

Follow the money....

by Ovadia

"I am amazed at this man...Scripture to mention only one for space sake, says “Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”...

Amen Ovadia! I am amazed also, as all of us who honor His Word, the Bible, as the Word and expression of God's heart.

I think that Camping himself is unimportant. He is more like a symbol, than a threat, and very few are affected by him. Never-the-less, he has edified the body of Christ, at least here on Sermonindex.

Here, [ and there are very few sites that do or will...] the Word of God overshadows all. The forum allows us to discuss under the bright light of the Word, the Scripture, and the Scripture will prevail here. [ not without a bit of iron sharpening iron, and a little brass thrown in for good measure...]

Camping was proved by that light, to be what he is; deceived.

I appreciate this site for the privilege of posting and dialogue, and having maturity, and bright minds [some brilliant] to sharpen, and feed me, and the patience to carry a thread like this as long as we have.

It was interesting and solid....and scriptural. BT

I don't know the relationship between this guy,[Fitzpatrick ] and Camping....but there has to be one. Same date, same hour. Did Camping plagiarize his prophecy? Weird.

In a self-published book, "The Doomsday Code," Fitzpatrick said the Bible offers "proof that cannot be dismissed."

This means that the prophecy was not given to Camping...but Fitzpatrick.

"A New York man spent his entire $140,000 life savings advertising his prediction that the world will end May 21, the New York Post reported Friday.

Robert Fitzpatrick, a 60-year-old Staten Island resident, said he spent at least that sum on 1,000 subway-car placards and ads on bus kiosks and subway cars.

They say, "Global Earthquake: The Greatest Ever! Judgment Day May 21, 2011."
In a self-published book, "The Doomsday Code," Fitzpatrick said the Bible offers "proof that cannot be dismissed."

"Judgment Day will surprise people. We will not be ready for it," Fitzpatrick said in an interview with the newspaper. "A giant earthquake will render the earth uninhabitable."

If you want to set an alarm clock, the quake will happen just before 6:00pm local time, he said.

"God's people will be resurrected. It is also the day that God stops saving anyone," he said.

Fitzpatrick hopes that he is one of the chosen ones, but he could not be really certain.

"There's just a little doubt," he said. "Most churches teach that if you just believe, you will be saved. It is not our choice. It is God's choice."
Source: Fox News... .com

Now there's some Calvinism at work in a different way.

: Camping. Plagiarist?? stealing a lie from a lie??..Wow!
Hi Brothertom,

Do you think that these guys know one another? Either way, their claims are bogus -- and I just hope that they publicly apologize on May 22nd. ccchhhrrriiisss.

Both of them are claiming the same prophecy...at the same moment, on the same day.

Going out on a limb here....But Camping is a mathematician...and after his humiliation in 1994....when his group waited very publicly with their Bibles opened for the end of the World...camping probably figured his math was off.

When Fitzpatrick came out with his prophecy..very intense and "documented"..[ over 350 pages ]..Camping , "saw the light" Yea! That's it!" and came out with the revised version...."END ALL #2"....and to save face...didn't bother to mention the real messenger.

Fitzpatrick published his book..."The Doomsday code." copyrighted 2010. [ Amazon..]Camping saw a way out of disgrace...and latched on to the math.

Just guessing, really. Nutty narcissists wanting power .

Liars stealing lies. Sad, but so odd, it's humorous.

Oh Chris, I didn't realize you had already posted this.

I just came on to leave this as well ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...ysaturdaymay21

What a shame this all is. A reproach against the true Church.

But, Jesus warned us about the counterfeits to come and that they'll out-number us, before it's over.

Back to Lamentations.

It is after 6pm and no rapture. We are still here. I started to say when will this end? But then thought better of my question and asked when will this nonsense end? A simple reading of the word off God will tell that no one including the angels or the Son knows the day or hour in Mat.24:36. But then maybe I am missing something here. The tragedy is many Christians are or have taken this seriously. If anything this shows the lack of solid Biblical teaching in.our churches. God have mercy on us.