Since Letting Go, Seems Like No One At the Wheel

Hello Friends. Some of you may know, my big issue since coming here to SI has been "laying down my life". I realize I have been a "striving, earnest kind of Christian" (quote from My Utmost, Jan. 15th). I first read that particular devotion in 1995. It struck me so hard, I've never forgotten it. I began, from that day on, to really try to go to the cemetary. Here it is almost 10 years later, and I think I have come a long way. However, since letting go so much in this past year, it feels like no one is at the helm of my life. I have stopped striving and fretting to provide for myself, yet now, the thing that I feared which kept me striving in my own strength, looms closer than ever. Financial ruin is breathing down my neck. I'm still working hard, just not as hard as I used to. I used to be obsessive. I used to outrun financial disaster by working harder. I was so tired. Now, I gave the care of my life to God, but it seems this ship may go down. Someone help me see the truth here. I've run the gamut of thoughts and emotions. I've spent a good bit of time angry with my husband because he doesn't pick up the ball. But, that anger with him is spiritually devastating to me. I can't lay the blame on him. I need help just in seeing this whole thing through God's eyes. Anyone have any comments? I know there are those here who have gotten beyond this section of trail. I appreciate ya. Dian.

Comment revoked ...

Get this book! ...I ordered it. Thanks. Dian.

Sounds like a really difficult situation, but I always think of II Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness."Financial security seems like something worthwhile, but really Jesus truly IS everything we need for life! He has promised us Himself and to take care of us. He may not take care of us how we want Him to, though.Don't let there be no one at the helm of your life. Make Christ the captain of the ship! I sat around for a long time saying "God, take control", but we have to conciously GIVE Him control in everything, all day. He must really be LORD!I've never read that book, but even the title makes me wary. I struggled a long time with self-help stuff. A lot of it is good, but none of it can really fix the soul, which is what we need. Paul said in I Corinthians that he refused to know anything except "Jesus Christ and Him crucified". That really is enough. HE is really enough...Phebe

Comment revoked ...

Why would we want to know if it led her down a false path? My goodness, the last thing someone realizes if they're going down a false path is that they are on one! Better to just avoid the whole thing...

Brother Greg ... i have removed my post from this thread, as i don't want to introduce something you're not comfortable with, and cause dissention ... ...Br. R

Hey Fellers, don't get into a huff over it. I'll just stick it on the shelf with the hundreds of other books that were of no help to me. I'm smarter than that. :-D I didn't come this far to be walking around in a cute Christian suit. I'm going down like a lead balloon. All the way down into the ground. Jesus Be Praised!

Dian I know you are likely to think that my opening statement is a thoughtless cliché but…I know EXACTLY what you mean. I have been down this road more than once and I hope that my errors are not yours, but if they are you may find this post some tough pills to swallow. I say so often that the grace of God is not limited in the ways it finds souls and so I am writing a “how-to” post but giving a testimony of the problems I faced and the truths that were revealed to me by the grace of God. Nevertheless, truth without revelation from God is merely head-knowledge, so that even if you do realize the problem through this or some other post, book or even the bible, it is God that opens our spiritual eyes to the realities of JESUS. Let me begin by saying, faith is a funny thing. You know that, it (faith) is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. What does this really mean? The writer (of Hebrews in Hebrews 11) attempts to show us by many examples (given to him by the Spirit) what he means by the statement (faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen). Faith is active, that is, there is always activity associated with indwelling faith. For example, you have put a post on the forum, confident that God will speak to you through the body of Christ. I cannot see your faith, but this act is evidence of that faith. The works of God in our lives are only limited only by our faith in him; for instance, God could not have spoken t you through the forum if you had not enough faith to write this post.You clearly have faith but I did not have to read this post to know that (Romans 12:3For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed A MEASURE OF FAITH TO EACH ONE). Through faith, you forsook your old life, esteeming the kingdom of God to be a greater treasure than anything you could work for. Through faith you have continued through uncertainty this past year, not knowing where you are going, you must now look forward to a city with foundations, whose builder and maker is God.No one has ever done God any favors; it is God who works his grace through his children and servants. Dr Tozer gave an illustration in his sermon “On fashioning ourselves as Christians”, of a person who says, “I will go out and get a sun-tan” and he removes his clothes and goes into the sun and he tans his skin. The main point here was, it was not really he who tanned the skin on his body but it was the work of the sun. The sun will skin weather we want it to or not, it is only limited with how much skin we expose and for how long we will expose ourselves. Still it is not we who tan but the sun. In the same way, the tanning of the Spirit, which transforms us into the image of His dear Son is limited by our faith in him. You have, through faith posted on the forum and the responses you get will give occasion for the Spirit to “tan” you. This is an allegory because it is truly not you that is changing you own attitude but had you not faith your outlook would remain unchanged. Faith gives occasion for God’s favors, and the biggest favor of God is the kingdom of God. You must now look forward to a city with foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Although Heaven will be wonderful, this is not what I speak of when I speak of the kingdom of God.Our Lord describes the Kingdom of God in the Gospel: Luke 13:18-19 18 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it? 19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it. The parable gives an illustration of man playing no role in the greatness of the tree, and the greatness of the tree being separate from the man, but it was still his. If he had not, by faith, cast the seed in his garden there would be no great tree in his life. In the same way, we play no role in the greatness of Spirit of Christ in us and we ourselves have no glory but that of Christ. What then is the kingdom of God? Luke17: 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. You are not the kingdom of God, nor are you commanded to be the kingdom of God. Your job is to accept the truths of the kingdom and let the kingdom establish itself in you. The Kingdom of God is in Jesus Christ and all things are to him, through him, and in him. Christ is the sum of ALL spiritual things, be they miracles or prophesies or prayers or love Christ is at the very center of all things that are of God. He is the right hand of God through whom all the works of God pass. He is the tree of life, which Adam rejected the one whom all major prophecy in the bible revolves around and the world could not take much more than 2 or 3 years of light and the world rejected him. As it is written:Isaiah 53:1-3 1 Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. The wisdom of the world sees nothing desirable in Christ, and will not plant the seeds of Christ in itself. Howbeit the kingdom of God is a peace that surpasses all understanding, and yet we seek peace from things which are concrete, things which are seen. What does our Lord say? Matthew 6:25-34 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.I write these things to my own shame…Are we going to plant the seeds of what Christ has said to us by faith Dian? Our prayers need to be more Christ centered, more Kingdom centered. We should not loose sight of what our religion entails:2Corinthians: 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.This is how we water and plant seeds. To end of let me just say this, any watering or planting without Christ is dead work:1 Corinthians 3:5-10 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereuponJames

James, bless your sweet heart! That was good encouragement. I loved this part:No one has ever done God any favorsI understand this, now. I would have absolutely no desire to follow Christ if he hadn't given it to me. I didn't come up with this idea to lay my life down on my own, therefore, I don't have to figure out how it's going to work, do I?You know, the thing I have the hardest time with when it comes to surrendering something to God, is when I know that the mess I'm in is my own fault. I was always taught the old cliche' as a child, if you made your bed, you lay in it. That's what makes it more difficult for me to believe that God will help me. But...I know he gives grace to the humble, and heck, haven't we all made our bed in hell? Behold, thou art there! Oh, thank you Lord! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Love, Dian.

DianI thank God Dian that you saw encouragement in the post. If you have received anything from that, bless God and his Holy name. You are right to say that it is not you who came up with the idea to lay your life down (Romans8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.)If then you have the grace to see that you are “the called” of God, you have also the grace to see that ALL things work together for good towards you. Not some things or not most things, but ALL things work together for your good. How do we define what is good? Is an increase of Jesus on the top of the list? One of the main things that used to de-motivate me was loosing sight of the eternal purpose of God and focusing on the here and now. In addition, loosing sight of the spiritual realm and taking hold of the natural realm. In the natural realm, I am lord, master of my destiny and everything is according my will. In the spiritual realm, Jesus is LORD, master of my destiny and EVERYTHING is according to the will of the Father. We must become acquainted not only with our spirit but the Spirit of God, otherwise Christianity is nothing more than Philosophy and a collection of proverbs and sayings, tips and hints on how to be moral. We however, serve a mighty God, “who fainteth not, neither growth weary”. In him is life, we have access to that life through Jesus and Jesus alone. No amount of self-sacrifice will bring us to the heart of God but, Jesus is our sacrifice our redemption and our salvation. We need not our own purity but the purity which is of Christ, so that when we stand we do not stand in our works but the works of Christ for it is Christ that works in us. If we take upon ourselves the burden to be Holy, we are no different that the Jews under the law. Moreover, if the Jews under the law proved anything, it is that no flesh can please God. The only thing that can please God is Jesus Christ:Romans 8:1-9 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.We achieve the righteousness of the law of God by improving our relationship with Jesus, that his Spirit may work in us and that no flesh may have anything be proud about:Galatians2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; YET NOT I BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.I will just say one more thing which I have learnt that has brought may walk to greater heights. When we pray we stand not on our own ground our holiness but the holiness of Christ. In Christ we are totally, totally blameless before God. We need not estimate the value of Christ to God but God has declared there is NO CONDEMNATION to them, which are in Christ Jesus. God is bound by his own word and he has said that in Christ we stand before him as his Children. The same Spirit, which was in Jesus, is in us. Do not try to be good, it is impossible, instead in EVERYTHING try and realize the truth (Jesus) and the truth will set you free. The more your faith grows and you see Jesus, the more you will find yourself saying like Paul, “…yet not I, but Christ in me”.James

Dear Sis, I've been where you are and Am where you are and I'm sure will be there again in the future.Let me explain.My wife and I have chosen to walk by faith in trusting the Lord fully.I have more trouble with this than she does, however I can say with the psalmist I have been young and now am old and I have never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread. One winter after I had a buisness collapse with no income at all and I remained deligent to pursue providing for my household ,however it seemed I couldnot make enough.I did all the commonsense things we do like check my spending, examine my giving and look at all my daily spending habits(like the coffee in the morning things at the coffee shop, luches out ect...).Once I was sure I did all I could do we both just stood still and waited on the Lord.Having done all to stand,just stand.I have to admit that the Lord has given me a very Godly wife and that helps alot----Proverbs---two are better than one,ect... Anyway that winter we had 6 different times where the Lord sent people by to give us groceries or monies needed for bills, each time it was different and only once did it come through our local church. We didn't broadcast our need but when asked we was always truthful,we didn't go into detail with people because most folks don't really want to know details, but most folks will help if they know the need.Here's my suggestions : 1)I've read enough of your posts to trust that you're sincerely striving toward Christ---So check your spending. 2)Credit card debt, get help if your in alot of that kinda debt ---msg me and I'll give you some agencies that will help,if you need 3)work on a budget if you husband will allow for one -- often times they won't 4)watch you daily loose change spending---I call this my coffee and dounut spending, lol>>>who need s thoughs extra calories anyway 5)THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT GOD'S WORD .... HE really can be trusted just simply go to him with your needs and He'll be there for you. the lord said , Iwill never leave thee nor forsake thee. I have more but this is enough . God Bless, I'll be praying for you and yours,Brother Daryl

My thanks to you all for your encouragement. Thanks Daryl. Rahman, don't feel bad. I love that you care for me enough to offer leads from things that have helped you. Hey, I've been helped by some of the most godless things. It's amazing. I watched the most horrible movie several years ago, An American Beauty. It won several academy awards and I thought it would be good. It was horrifyingly ungodly, but after I watched it, I cried bitter tears of repentance for my own sin. It brought me to my knees in an area I had been hiding over for years. Said all that to say, I love you, Brother. Dian.

Hi Dian,I understand where you're at and am in a very similar place. There's an old hymn that says "I'm learning to lean on Jesus." Oh so how true it is. There's so many things in my life that if God doesn't intervene, nothing of any consequence will happen.The story I have read numerous times that parallels your situation in the Scriptures is 2 Chronicles 20. Can you imagine the President going on national TV and making the same pronouncement that Jehoshaphat made and leading the nation in fasting and prayer? God we're not going to make it if you don't intervene!There's a more modern song I like to sing and it's entitled "My Deliverer is Coming." I'm reminded of 2Ch 20:17 "Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; tomorrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you."Frankly, I'm still learning what it means to be sold out to Jesus but am convinced that's the only way to live. Jesus I don't know what's going to happen but regardless I'm going to trust you and leave everything in your hand.To paraphrase Pastor Reidhead, I'm going to stay in the trunk and let Jesus drive the car. I don't know about you but I'm tired of being the driver (and the back seat driver). For me, I have no choice other than the trunk but I can't tell what's going on back there so it's difficult at times.All I know Dian is that Jesus is enough. He is sufficient to meet every need, to deal with every adverse circumstance, to remove any stain of sin in my heart and to accomplish whatever he wishes in my life. He is the vine, I'm only a branch and I'm learning to abide in Him.Your deliverer is coming!!!

Thanks for your comments, Brother James. I was really blessed by them! I struggle so much, like Dian said, with the feeling of "it's my fault I'm in this mess, why should God help me?" But, I guess ALL of us are "in this mess" (of sin) through our own actions and there is nothing we can do to help ourselves, so we have to let God help us. Sometimes that is the very hardest thing to do.God is really helping me with this in the last few months. I had all of these dreams and ideas of what God wanted me to do with my life and everything I was going to do for Him. Then when I got the chance to do it, I felt that I let God down. Now I am as far as I've ever been from "doing something with my life" or doing "great things for God" and I agonized over that for so long. Then God showed me a little verse in the Bible in John 6:28-29 "Then they asked Him (Jesus), 'What must we do to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.'"I read that and thought,"Wow! That's it?!" Of course I believe in salvation by grace, etc., but it hit me really hard that all Christ requires of me is belief in Him and a surrender to let Him do the rest. He was really quite uninterested in all the great stuff I wanted to do for Him. He wants me to know Him. Period.Remember Jesus washing the disciples' feet? Peter said to Jesus, "You will never wash my feet". It was like he thought, "Jesus, haven't You done enough already? Why would you want the degradation of washing my feet?" But Jesus told him, "Unless I wash your feet you have no part with me." In other words, "You must let Me in, you must let Me love you. You must let Me do it all."Please know that I am praying for you. Thank you for being so honest. It helps all of us know that we are not alone in our problems.Sister Phebe

Just finished reading everyones comments and scriptures--just wanted you all to know how much of a blessing you guys are to me, God Bless.Bro.Daryl

To paraphrase Pastor Reidhead, I'm going to stay in the trunk and let Jesus drive the car. I don't know about you but I'm tired of being the driver (and the back seat driver). For me, I have no choice other than the trunk but I can't tell what's going on back there so it's difficult at times.Ed, I am so tired of being the driver and of trying to advise God from the backseat. I never even thought of getting into the trunk. The devil stuffed me into the trunk once, a long time ago. He drove me to a place far away and put me in an open grave. God came and rescued me. I am sure I can trust God. I think I'll just stop worrying now. I'm always scared I'm missing something important and, by the time I realize it, it'll be too late. Why do I think I've been smart enough to make it anyway? I mean, after all, Satan did have me, or so he thought... ;-). Oh Jesus, there is none besides thee. Jesus, my joy, my reward. All that I can say to you, is I love you, I love you, I love you. Let's praise him, shall we? Love ya'll, too. Dian.

Sister Di,i was determined not to touch this again, but you posted to me, and since you don't have any other way for me to answer you other than here, i thought it would be rude of me not to answer ...Sister Di you wrote;"Rahman, don't feel bad. I love that you care for me enough to offer leads from things that have helped you. Sister Di, i don't feel bad (for myself) for all this year (as God bid me come) i've been walking on water with all my senses focused solely on Him ... Actually if anything i feel sorry for so many saints who are either boat sitters, or even worse land lubbers in Christ ... i'm already out of the boat, and my own personal history from His moving me from being asleep in the very bottom of the ship (as like Jonah), to out on the water with Him (as like Peter), is one that i can see in others, and you are such a one sis ... He has water walking plans for you, if not He would not have given you this extra measure of faith that keeps you holding onto him for dear life in your struggle ... You like Jacob, and myself once, at this point in your life haven't yet realized that God has been, is right now, and will be present in every situation, high or lo, in your life ... You are called from before the womb with a purpose for your life, His purpose, and since the day you were born He's been there manipulating, extrapilating, disciplining thru all the muck and mire we take on in this life till that glorious day when He speaks to us, and we hear and come, as did Jacob the first time he encountered Jehovah at Bethel (surely God is in this place!) ... But if you notice, it took quite a while before God could make the "if You/then i" Jacob ripe for his emptying experience at the Jabbok, and subsequently Peniel, where Jacob finally saw God face to face, and totally understood that He'd been with Him all his days, even when he didn't know it, even when he was trying to help God ... Trying to help God is what causes us subsequent unnecessary pain ... As with Abraham with Ishmael, by trying to help God we birth things into our lives that eventually God will require that we painfully let go ...If you are in fact at the darkest night of your spiritual life, and you think you're in a locked battle with your greatest fear (your Esau), i can tell you from personal experience that when your dawn begins to break it will be revealed to you that all along you thought you were wrestling with your Esau, grappling for your natural life, when in fact it's been God wrestling with you to hold your attention thru your fear, grappling with you for your supernatural life, till that first glimmer of spiritual awakening reveals to you that it's been God all the time, thru all the times! ... This is a point that the Holy Ghost pointed out to me when i was watching a movie (on "can anything good ever come out of" TBN) about the life of Joseph ... It was at the point where Joseph's brothers were surely about to kill him, and then as if by accident the Midianite slave traders showed up ... The Spirit said to me, "I sent the Midianites" ... WOW!!! ... The point being that any of us called according to Gods purpose very seldom realize that in the worse time of our lives, God may send something that to us may seem even worse, to get us out of the first situation ... In the pit satan intended to end Joseph's life, but in being sold into slavery God rescued Joseph's life, although at the time i'm sure Joseph didn't see it as such ... But no matter what, Joseph's faith in Jehovah never wavered ... Joseph dreamed the dreams of being lord over his family, but he had no idea the hell he'd have to go thru to fulfill God's dream for his life ... Same with us, which is why once brought to that maturity a saint, like Paul, can praise Him in no matter what situation God may place us, for His is the plan for our life, and our life is His to do with as He pleases, and ALL THINGS, even others ridicule of you, trials, tribulation, being exhalted or even martyrdom if He so decrees, work together for the good of them that love the Lord, and are called according to HIS PURPOSE ... Once you realize that it's God whose contending with you that's the point where your past fear turns into a present even more doggedly determined faith ... You get renewed strength in the fact that you suddenly realize you've got hold of the Divine, and it's at this point that the Divine says, "You can let go of Me now" ... But like Jacob, and myself at that point, you say, "No way am i gonna let You go until You bless me" ... But God takes you one step further, and cripples you by completely eliminating your own "self" power, that same "self" power that you've been operating on to get all that you've attained thus far, that same "self" power that has caused a major problem between you and Him all these years ... But you hold onto Him even harder with an even firmer grip of faith, hopping on one leg, realizing that not only are you holding onto Him now for that blessing, but also because you know that if you let go of Him now you'll fall flat on your face ... Your Crippler of your "self", has now become your only means of support, and power to remain upright, and once God cripples you in that struggle, He'll never ever have to worry about you attempting to stand on your own again, because you will have fully realized that He is now your only Power, and you will from now on rely solely on Him for everything ... These are the lessons God brought home to me via the unmentionable book i suggested, and i've been ministering to saints from it's message since ... Sister Di there are so many saints struggling without the slightest clue as to why ... And there are so many saints who know that they want to get out of the boat, but are hindered not so much because of the howling satanic wind and the waves of self doubt, but because of other well meaning, but faithless, saints who are screaming to the top of their lungs at them, "Are you crazy! ... You'd better keep your butt in this boat where it's safe ... If that's Jesus you think you see out there walking the deep, then let Him come to you" ... Reacting out of frustration to these types is where i have to be careful, but thank God the Holy Ghost convicts me to repentance ...God's wrestling with you sister Di ... Keep on grappling with Him till your dawn, prevail, and you'll recieve the blessing of His power in trade for your own ... Trust me from one whose had the pain and pleasure of wrestling with God, and prevailed ... His power is far better ...Sister Di you said;"I am so tired of being the driver and of trying to advise God from the backseat". Good! ... You're ripe for a blessing! ... i love you too sis, and am praying mightily for your victory at your first dawns light ... AmenPS - Sister Di,You might also find these helpful ...CHANGED INTO HIS LIKNESS - LESSONS ON ABRAHAM, ISAAC & JACOB ... BY: WATCHMAN NEE:http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/changedlikeness/chalikcont.htm(I truly love brother Ravenhill, but nobody gives me spiritual chills like brother Nee, the above link will blow your mind)Sermon links to;LESSONS VIA ABRAHAM:LESSONS VIA ISAAC:LESSON VIA JACOB:can be found at the original post:Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, Which are You Most Like?https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2559&forum=35#16603

i was determined not to touch this again, but you posted to me, and since you don't have any other way for me to answer you other than here, i thought it would be rude of me not to answer ...Thank you so much for answering. Where would I be without that awesome dissertation on wrestling with God? That blessed my socks off! You folks are wonderful. Love ya. Dian.

I had all of these dreams and ideas of what God wanted me to do with my life and everything I was going to do for Him. Then when I got the chance to do it, I felt that I let God down. Now I am as far as I've ever been from "doing something with my life" or doing "great things for God" and I agonized over that for so long. Hi Phebe. I wanted to say something about this because this is an awesome thing that is happening to you. I, too, had great things I wanted to do for God. Now, I realize the truth. God doesn't need me, he wants me. He didn't choose us to complete himself, he chose us just because he could. I heard a man give this analogy once: He said, his daughter was a youngster and began to take gymnastics about the same time as the olympics were being aired on tv. His daughter would come to him everyday when he got home from work and say, "Daddy, look!" She would proceed to tumble and flip and show him the new things she had learned. He said he would pretend to be all interested, but you know, it's nothing compared to those olympians. He said, that's how we are trying to impress God. We can't impress God. His perfection is so far beyond us, we have nothing to impress him with. He is impressed with us because we are his girls! It's good when we realize God isn't impressed by what we do, he's impressed by whose we are. Love you. Dian.

Dear Rahman,I have just got through reading and re-reading your post.I would first like to apologize for jumping on you about the book. I guess I have had such a history of trying to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and some self-help scheme only to find out months later that it was useless that I am too touchy about that sort of thing. It sounds like that book was nothing of the sort. I am sorry and will try not to be so jumpy again.Anyway, my heart is just resounding so much to what you just said. I feel so incredibly broken, crushed, ground to dust by God--like I am just a shadow of what I once was. I used to love the verse about soaring like eagles, but I'm an eagle with broken wings now. If I ever "mount up with wings like eagles" again then it will have to be God. And yet I have this inexplicable, painful yearning for God that I've never had before. It really is like God has wounded me for life, but just so that I would know Him and nothing else.I wish I could say that I am completely sold out to God, but I'm not yet--not completely anyway. I feel like I'm still wavering on the edge, afraid of jumping off into the ocean of God and yet unable to turn back. I know too much, I love too much to ever go back, but I don't know why I still hold things back from God...Like Paris Reidhead says, God is not here to make me happy. In fact, He makes me completely miserable a good deal of the time. He has chased me down and broken me to smitherings, yet there is something in me that cries out, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust Him!" I know at the end of all of this will be a knowledge of Christ and Christ alone that I have never had before. Please pray that I have the faith and trust to go that far.PhebeP.S. Dian, I am sorry to be digressing onto my problems in your thread. Thank you so much for sharing, though. It is so difficult to find Christians that really understand these kinds of things...

Dian,Thanks for your story. How we must look to God sometimes and yet how much He loves us--Wow! You said, "God isn't impressed by what we do, He's impressed by whose we are." What a reversal of what we are taught in the world. Thank You, Jesus!Love,Phebe

Dian, I am sorry to be digressing onto my problems in your thread. Thank you so much for sharing, though. It is so difficult to find Christians that really understand these kinds of things...Phebe, I don't think we're digressing here. This thread started with me sharing the "out of control" feeling which I have since surrendering the wheel of my life to God. This is all new to me, too. I don't know why it's difficult to find others who understand these things, but I do. Maybe I'm weird. I will say that the brokeness you are experiencing is a very, very good thing. I know that much. Anytime we are going lower in ourselves, it's taking us the right direction. I've learned that much if I ain't learned nothin else. :-) You hang in there, and I will too. Love you. Dian.

What a great thread folks...Been so busy and wanted to reply often but...Dear Dian, the first post you wrote hit me right where I am and have been for quite some time now. Both of us being 'self-employed'... it's a mirror of my own experience and even with a new job working for an employer it's going to take some time to work through everything.But I just wanted to encourage you. I know this so well sister, times of just pure perplexity over the how's, what's and whys. My prayers are certainly with you, know that the Lord is working in and through you no matter what the circumstances outwardly and the difficulty inwardly. It's much more than just Christian lingo to assuage our conscious to say these things. It's truth, it really is. Just keep on pressing on sister.Hope to write more later.

Sister Phebe you wrote;"I have just got through reading and re-reading your post. I would first like to apologize for jumping on you about the book. I guess I have had such a history of trying to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and some self-help scheme only to find out months later that it was useless that I am too touchy about that sort of thing. It sounds like that book was nothing of the sort. I am sorry and will try not to be so jumpy again".No problem sis ... Getting over being jumped on is a piece of cake to a vessel who has been prophesied over as being "tempered by God toward withstanding outright hatred" ... The only importance is that you got the message ... Amen ... Plus the Lord did not have me ignorant that my posting about the unmentionable book would draw flack, i just didn't realize to what degree ... And i totally understand about your being punch drunk about those dime a dozen so called self help books, they've turned off many, thank God that my history has been to only read books that He's provided to me thru others, or He directs me to and i hear the Spirit say, "Get this" ... There is a dear sister i've known for a long time that our Lord passes reading material thru to me, and when she passes it on i know He's about to say something to me ... Well a while back she gave me two books she said the Lord told her to give me ... "The God Chasers" and "The Purpose Driven Life" (two more controversial books) ... Well "The God Chasers" i devoured hungrily, but "The Purpose Driven Life" about half way thru just gagged me, but i read on, know why?, because i believed that God had something to say to me and i wasn't gonna stop till i heard it ... Well i had to get 3/4's of the way thru that book before God began to explain to me (via the writer) that it was He that orchestrated my being initially indoctrinated by Catholicism, then raised Jehovah's Witness, then brought to Himself in a true salvation experience, all for His future purpose for me ... i finally began to understand that even all the upheaval, turmoil, spiritual darkness, trials, tribulations and questions that stemmed from my being raised in such seemingly religious confliction was all a part of God's plan for my life ... It was like scales fell off my eyes as to the fact that my past is just my short history of God's equiping, and grooming me to some purpose He has in store for me ... Same with you, same with all saints, His degree of intensity in our lives is based on the degree of the intensity of His part for us in His perfect Plan ... We all get a measure of faith to equip us for the faith we need to do the work ... My analogy is that there are loads of land based saints who maintain home and hearth and hold down the fort/church ... Then there are sea faring saints who have a gnawing sensation that they should be doing more and so pass over the uncertainty of the sea to other sides, exploring new possibilities in/for Christ ... And then like Peter there are the water walkers, 1/12 of the folks in the boat, whom God Himself has placed an inescapable desire in their hearts (tho their flesh oft times screams against it) to be able to do exactly as the Lord does ... These folk are fewest, and like Peter oft times enjoy the ectasy of having Christ Church supported by them, but bear the agony of being crucified upside down for such support ... You continued;"Anyway, my heart is just resounding so much to what you just said. I feel so incredibly broken, crushed, ground to dust by God--like I am just a shadow of what I once was. I used to love the verse about soaring like eagles, but I'm an eagle with broken wings now. If I ever "mount up with wings like eagles" again then it will have to be God. And yet I have this inexplicable, painful yearning for God that I've never had before. It really is like God has wounded me for life, but just so that I would know Him and nothing else".Halleleujah sis! ... i know it doesn't feel like it, but you're making tremendous progress! ... The Holy Ghost is about to birth another water walker named Phebe!You continued;"I wish I could say that I am completely sold out to God, but I'm not yet--not completely anyway. I feel like I'm still wavering on the edge, afraid of jumping off into the ocean of God and yet unable to turn back. I know too much, I love too much to ever go back, but I don't know why I still hold things back from God" ...Aaaaaaaaaamen! ... How well i remember being at this phase, "knowing to much, loving Him to much to ever go back" ... You said you are "afraid of jumping off into the ocean of God " ... Well number one sis it ain't a jump, it's a decided stepping off "onto" the ocean of God ... You walk the water without benefit of anything else save your faith in the Master, you keep all your senses onHim and you'll never sink, and if at anytime you falter it's a s simple as crying out, "Lord save me", and immediately He'll have you by your hand! ... There's a chapter in the unmentionable book entitled "When You Can't Let Go of Unworthy Suspicions About God's Goodness" ... When you still have any part of you that doubts God, it'll keep any of us wavering on the edge ... The edge is an awful place to be for you have all the promises of God, but you can't recieve them because "a double minded man/woman recieveth nothing from the Lord" ... i know it ain't easy, i've been there, but take it from someone who now knows, "Sister Phebe, just step out of the boat on your faith of the goodness you've already been shown by our Lord" ...You said;"I know at the end of all of this will be a knowledge of Christ and Christ alone that I have never had before. Please pray that I have the faith and trust to go that far".Amen on the "knowledge of Christ you've never had before" ... i've been saved for 26 years now and i'm just now knowing what faith is ... God's peace which surpasses all understanding is my faith in Him ... It's the faith that, like Jesus, allows me to catch a sound 40 winks while all about me is the tempest tossed storm of a raging sea ... After readingthe unmentionable book the Lord brought home four quick points to me ...1 - i have nothing to fear, except Him ...2 - i don't have to get revenge, He will ...3 - i can get things done because i now have His power ...4 - i have time, His time ...i'm praying for you sis (assisting) like a mid-wife at the birth of a fellow water walker ... Amen

Hey Rahman,Thank you. It's unbelievably encouraging to hear you and Dian say that this is all actually progress. God sees things so very differently!I really got your birth analogy since I'm a labor and delivery nurse. I know that birth is probably not that fun for the baby. They always come out looking so startled and when they start to cry I swear they're thinking "What the heck happened to me? Help!" Then I give them to their mother and they settle right down because they recognize her voice and smell. How can I ever think that it would be any different with God? If I am in confusion and perplexity and darkness, I will surely end up in the loving hands of my Father, soothed by a Voice that I know...He has been SO good lately. Just in the little things-- like my three-year-old daughter named Cassie. At lunch the other day she started talking about God. I asked her, "Does God ever talk to you, Cassie?" "Yes" she said. "What does He say?" I asked. "Well, actually, He's crying right now," she said. "Why?" I said, amused. "Because He wants you." And with that, she got down to wash her hands and left me sitting, stunned and yearning at the table. Yes, He does want me. And He's going to have me if it's the last thing I do!!PhebeP.S. Don't you think that God wants EVERYONE to be "water-walkers"? How could He not want everyone to draw as near to Him as possible?

Sister Phebe you wrote;"Thank you. It's unbelievably encouraging to hear you and Dian say that this is all actually progress. God sees things so very differently"!You're welcome, but to God be all the glory ... Amen it's all progress, and double amen on God seeing things so differently than we ... That's the Holy Spirits biggest challenge, to get us to seeing/thinking/acting/being in the mind of God, via His transforming us into the image of His beloved Son Jesus Christ ...You continued;"I really got your birth analogy since I'm a labor and delivery nurse. I know that birth is probably not that fun for the baby. They always come out looking so startled and when they start to cry I swear they're thinking "What the heck happened to me? Help!" Praise God, then what's been said about your being birthed a water walker is a confirmation to you ... i once heard this in a song about why babies cry when they come into this world ...Ever wonder why a little baby cries when it's born? ...It's because it's soul isn't happy, being born into sin ...For (at birth) our souls come here a hungering, ready to be spirit again ...So even as a babe we come here sensing something is very wrong ... i think that under perfection we were all meant to be born even into the natural world spiritually: spirit, soul and flesh ... But instead we come here: flesh/soul and spirit ... spiritually breached ... It takes re-birth thru our faith in Christ as personal Savior to enable the Spirit to empower us the positional correcting to be made aright with the Father, and then however many baths it may take to the transformation of our minds, and the presenting of our flesh as a living sacrifice, to do with as our Lord pleases ...You continued;"Then I give them to their mother and they settle right down because they recognize her voice and smell. How can I ever think that it would be any different with God? If I am in confusion and perplexity and darkness, I will surely end up in the loving hands of my Father, soothed by a Voice that I know"...Amen ... We are redeemed to the Father by His Son, then comforted by THE COMFORTER, God the Holy Ghost ... You continued;He has been SO good lately. Just in the little things-- like my three-year-old daughter named Cassie. At lunch the other day she started talking about God. I asked her, "Does God ever talk to you, Cassie?""Yes" she said."What does He say?" I asked."Well, actually, He's crying right now," she said."Why?" I said, amused."Because He wants you."And with that, she got down to wash her hands and left me sitting, stunned and yearning at the table.Yes, He does want me. And He's going to have me if it's the last thing I do!!Ha! ... ha! ... out of the mouths of babes, and your little girl is so right ... Like Jonah, you'll not be able to escape your assignment ... He's begun a good work in you, and He's determined to finish it! ... i've run from God, and i've wrestled with God, and all it will do is make you very, very tired, if as the old saints say, "He's got His hand on you" ... But i'll tell you what's most poignant about what your little girl said and that being, "He's crying right now"! ... That He is, about His Church, and the reason being that only actual 3 year olds, and a few adults with faith in Him like a three year old, see His tears ... Most distressing! ...Your final comment;P.S. Don't you think that God wants EVERYONE to be "water-walkers"? How could He not want everyone to draw as near to Him as possible?Amen He does, just as assuredly as He wants all to accept His Son, but He knows that's not gonna happen, just as He knew there would only be one out of the twelve as rambunctious as Peter ... It was not by accident that Peter became who he'd become by the time Christ first introduced Himself to him on the shore of the sea of Galilee ... Peter didn't chose Christ, Christ chose Peter, and Jesus had both known, and prepared Peter way before then, Peter was groomed to suit God's need for that particular time, as were the prophets of old ... Same with Jacob, and all the other few saints He groomed thru time to become the exemplary pillars of faith spoken of in the book of Hebrews ... Think about it, out of all the billions of people who lived during the time of the penning of the entire Bible, precious few are mentioned by name, and they only because God had a pre-ordained special purpose for their lives, some as vessels of mercy, some as vessels of wrath ... Praise Him that to whatever degree of service He's called us to that we're members of the former and not the latter ...

i finally began to understand that even all the upheaval, turmoil, spiritual darkness, trials, tribulations and questions that stemmed from my being raised in such seemingly religious confliction was all a part of God's plan for my life ... It was like scales fell off my eyes as to the fact that my past is just my short history of God's equiping, and grooming me to some purpose He has in store for me ... Same with you, same with all saints, His degree of intensity in our lives is based on the degree of the intensity of His part for us in His perfect Plan ... We all get a measure of faith to equip us for the faith we need to do the work ... My analogy is that there are loads of land based saints who maintain home and hearth and hold down the fort/church ... Then there are sea faring saints who have a gnawing sensation that they should be doing more and so pass over the uncertainty of the sea to other sides, exploring new possibilities in/for Christ ... And then like Peter there are the water walkers, 1/12 of the folks in the boat, whom God Himself has placed an inescapable desire in their hearts (tho their flesh oft times screams against it) to be able to do exactly as the Lord does ... These folk are fewest, and like Peter oft times enjoy the ectasy of having Christ Church supported by them, but bear the agony of being crucified upside down for such support ... Hi Rahman. I'm running behind here, in my response to this. Sorry. I've been all over the place lately. Even here at SI. I'm almost distracted in various places, reading through threads, thinking, thinking about what are the core issues. There's a real "stir" taking place in the spirit. Even in my own life. I have issues, problems in life and relationships, the same things everyone is dealing with, whether saved or unsaved. I've come to one conclusion. We don't need to think too much. The only thing we need to know as believers is: What does God think? Our opinions or anyone elses is useless in this world. If we do not align ourselves with God, we are against him. When you still have any part of you that doubts God, it'll keep any of us wavering on the edge ... The edge is an awful place to be for you have all the promises of God, but you can't recieve them because "a double minded man/woman recieveth nothing from the Lord"This is indeed the true problem. A single mind is what we are after. And a single mind is the mind that has come to agree with God on EVERYTHING. This basically means that I no longer have "a mind of my own." Christ said he came to do the will of his Father and he did only those things which he saw the Father doing. There is one particular thread on SI right now that it is obvious to me that the person who started it is thinking with his own mind. He is trying to prove to everyone else that he is right. Who cares? I don't care if you are the Pope. If you aren't in agreement with God, you are wrong, period.In John 3:28, John the Baptist is explaining the mission of his ministry to his own disciples. I believe it is actually the definition of the ministry of every believer. He says,"My work is to prepare the way for [Christ] so that everyone will go to him. You yourselves know how plainly I told you that I am not the Messiah. I am here to prepare the way for him-that is all." Then, down in verse 30 he says, "He must become greater and greater, and I must become less and less." That just says it all to me. Several years ago, a group called Out Of The Grey put out a song entitled "Disappear". I would like to post the lyrics here. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I:Hidden so well hidden in this picturewhy can't I be drawn outside these lines?Willing just to vanish in your shadowWhat would wear away this thin disguise?Surrounded by myself I get so tired of me.But I know, I know what I needWish I could disappear inside youDisappear Hidden in the way I was intended to beCloser to you and further from meI would disappear, I would disappeardisappearGiven,I've been given so much freedomGrace abounds and I'm the chief abuserLivingin a house that I've constructed out of anything that makes me feel good and safe and rightbut the Consequece of choices so easily fadethere's an empty place I'd eagerly tradeWish I could disappear inside youDisappear Hidden in the way I was intended to beCloser to you and further from me.I would disppear, I would disappear,disappear.Pulling focus from myselfnow it's coming clearhidden in the way I was intended to becloser to you and further from me.I would disappear, I would disappear,disappear.Pulling focus from myselfthere's got to be somebody elseComing closer getting near I'll disappear Pulling focus from myself I've got to see somebody elseEverything is coming clear I'll disappearThis is it. This is how we walk on water, isn't it? Love, Dian.

Sister Di you wrote;"There's a real "stir" taking place in the spirit" ... Amen, and other saints are sensing this as well ... The Spirit is about to right the wrongs of the collective Body, and it only stands to reason that any with an ear to hear the Spirit will become the first responders ... In my own assembly i was first to surrender to the Spirt's voice to proclaim a dire need for repentance amongst we believer's, now others are doing so ... We have an open door before us, one that once we step thru it will leave so much of the wordly crud that has weighed us down on this side of the door ... i don't ever remember being as peaceful in spirit as i am right now, trusting totally in our Lord for everything ... Things are looking pretty dire on my job right now, and folk are so worried, but not me, not even in the slightest, becasue i finally, finally know that God has my life in His hands, to purpose with as He pleases ... He'll never leave me or forsake me, He crippled Jacob, then He took care of him for the rest of his good, long life ... Yes even after Peniel bad boy Reuben killed the men of Shechem and besmirched Jacob's name, but out of that God moved Jacob to Bethel an all out destroying of idols second time ... Yeah Rachael died too, but God gave Jacob Benjamin ... And yes even after Peniel Jacob suffered years of grief thinking that his beloved Joseph was dead, only to experience such a joyful reunion with Joseph in his old age, and to be made aware that what was once grief to him now became the revelation to him of how God had prepared so well for Jacob's remaining years ... That's why even in trials, tribulation and grief, a believer can always count on God's working it out to our good ...i have a friend who the Lord has used me to minister "trust in Him" to who just had such an experience with God ... She's on a fixed income, has been trying to find a decent apartment for the last 2 1/2 years, but was always turned down because she didn't have enough income, all the while she's taking care of her elderly and onery mom ... Well just last week her beloved aunt Katherine died and that put her even more into a funk, and then out of the ether our Lord blesses her with her Aunt Katherine's condo, because her godly nephew said that our Lord told him that my friend was to have it ... Well needless to say we had a thanks and praise service to Him when she told me, and all she kept saying to me was, "You said He would take care of me, and He has" ... Like her, i too once gut wrenched over what i wanted "right now", and all it did was cause us unnecessary stress ... If God has for you, nothing and no one can stop you from recieving it, but in His own time ... i find it comforting that He's got it all laid out for me, i didn't before under my own power, but i sure do now under His! ...You continued;"I've come to one conclusion. We don't need to think too much". Amen, not at all on anything that brings doubt, but never ending thought on all that is spoken of in Philippians ...You continued;"This is indeed the true problem. A single mind is what we are after. And a single mind is the mind that has come to agree with God on EVERYTHING. This basically means that I no longer have "a mind of my own." Amen, renewed in the spirit of our own mind to the point of the transformation of our mind into that of the mind of Christ ...You ended;"this is it. This is how we walk on water, isn't it"?Amen, when we dispense of all fear, fear which inevitably is the epitome of self centeredness, oh woe is me, what will become of me?, then like your song we disappear ... The only way to walk water in faith is to keep ones eyes and ears of faith tuned in solely on Christ ... It's like the Skittles rainbow commercial, as soon as the boy doubted the rainbow, he no longer sat atop the rainbow ... Same when we're walking water, but thank Him that all it takes for us to get back up on top is a "Jesus Save Me" ... My determination is to use my "Jesus Save Me" a whole lot less than i have in the past! ... AmenIn His love,Br. R

Sister Di, sister Phebe, and everyone else this thread may be speaking to ...This is a sermon i'm sure it will bless you!Peniel (Meeting God Face to Face)https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3966&post_id=26656&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=35#26656Br. R

Like Dian, I too am way behind and was just skimming back through when this arrested my attention:He has been SO good lately. Just in the little things-- like my three-year-old daughter named Cassie. At lunch the other day she started talking about God. I asked her, "Does God ever talk to you, Cassie?"Yes" she said."What does He say?" I asked."Well, actually, He's crying right now," she said."Why?" I said, amused."Because He wants you."And with that, she got down to wash her hands and left me sitting, stunned and yearning at the table.Yes, He does want me. And He's going to have me if it's the last thing I do!!Oh my. I will take prohecies from a three year old anyday over anything that comes forth from our modern day so called, self styled sorts.This is remarkable.