"Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians"

StarofGod,

There are many, many quotes you can take. Madame Guyon has left us with much to be concerned about.

There are quite a few things about her that are legitimate to be concerned about. I also have been blessed by some things as I read her books but definitely not all. That is how the enemy works. He mixes lies with truth.

When I first read her books 25 years ago, I did not catch anything wrong about what she said. I did not have a great grasp on God's Word and I thought she was awesome with these "experiences" that she had. But that is not the case today. Today, I am concerned about many things that she has said and taught in "Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ" and other books.

The post that momiam13 wrote touched on many things that I noticed also.

Madame Guyon's writings are experiencing a resurgence in popularity because of the Mysticism of Emergent Church Theology and Catholic Ecumenical Theology which has seeped into the Protestant "tributaries". In many ways her books have become the "fuel" for various Christian "mystical" movements.

Madame Guyon's mysticism is described as “the immediate feeling of the unity of the self with God.

She doesn't talk about inner feelings of praise or gratitude for what God has done, but rather “The complete union of the soul with God".

You can read about some of it, here.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07092b.htm

She tends to confuse Creator and creature, because she errantly seeks Christ not in God’s Word but in the self.

What I was concerned about and what I look for now in touted "Christian mystics" is that their mystical experience displaces biblical revelation, becoming the final goal and authority.

Madame Guyon adhered to a school of mysticsm sometime called Quietism, which is an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one’s inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly. I know some of have, but the Bible does not teach us that we can see Christ visibly. I think many of the manifestations that she saw were demonic. Satan can appear as an angel of light and will give the soul that is seeking experiences and manifestations, what they want.

In her autobiography, on page 14 she wrote that “divine wisdom is unknown and she made no attempt to speak of God’s revelation of Himself in nature and creation (Psalm 19, Romans 1) and the specific revelation of God in Jesus Christ and His Word. She taught that we can know of God by “passing forward into God, (also on page 14) going into a mindless, meditative state where we can get in touch with the Christ within the self, merge with that Christ and be lifted into ecstasy.

What I am concerned about is the Christian putting themselves into a state of passivity, which is the Devil's playground.

I do appreciate Zac but we must remember than no man is the standard by which everyone else or other teachings are judged. Any of us can be fooled and we see that if it were possible in the end days, even the elect will be deceived.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall DECEIVE the very elect.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to SEDUCE, if it were possible, even the elect.

Please remember the Catholic Church uses Catholic Mystics to impress Protestants and make them think they are missing something. This has worked very well for the RCC as many Protestants have "come home to Rome".

Unfortunately, she has become quite big in House Church circles as well, as she has been promoted for some time by Gene Edwards who sells her books. Gene is quoted as saying, "Put your Bibles away for a year and just be led by the Spirit".

God's Word will always be the standard.

Respectfully,
A777

P.S.

Here is an extract from another source I found that has more for you to chew on and pray about.
http://philadelphians.50megs.com/warrencom.html

On p.193 (day 25) Warren quotes a neutral statement by Madame Guyon “It is the fire of suffering that brings forth the gold of godliness.” On his website he promotes the book “Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians” saying This is an anointed little book that reports on the deeper life experiences of Christians such as D.L. Moody, John Bunyan, Madame Guyon, John Wesley, and many others. While these other men are respected Guyon is not. Madame Guyon was a Roman Catholic mystic who lived during the 17th and 18th century that was a promoter of “quietism,” which involved becoming so passive that you become indifferent to everything. This was an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one’s inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly.

Misinterpreting Jesus words in Luke 17:21 she began her lifelong journey within. She responded to the Lord, “Thou wast in my heart, and demanded only a simple turning of my mind inward, to make me perceive Thy presence. ... The kingdom of God is within you.”

Madame Guyon said that she had reached the point where she was no longer capable of sinning. She said that sin involves self, and she had become free of self. Therefore, she could no longer sin. ”

“she and La Combe could communicate for hours without words in some kind of strange telepathy. She asserted they could read each others hearts. (Guyon pp. 286-287) That her trance states, which left her unable to speak for days, were good and godly (pg. 281). That she had written under the direct inspiration of God, often not even being aware of what she was writing. She claimed to have found within herself, “latent treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (pp. 321-322). She said her writings were spirit-dictated (Ibid., pg. 324). Evelyn Underhill, herself a promoter of mysticism and myths, refers to Guyon as a “medium” exhibiting clairvoyance, prophecy, telepathy, and automatic writing in bewildering profusion. Evelyn Underhill, Mysticism, 1990, p. 295 (referenced from PFO in the Quarterly Journal article- THE MINDLESS MYSTICISM OF MADAME GUYON Countering the Myth of Intermittent Deification and Sinless Perfection by G. Richard Fisher)

When I think of experiences of "deeper Christians" I must also associate the Gospel to their lives, and judge accordingly. The "Deeper Life" in the Bible, the man and women used by God in specific, ordained ways, was always associated with power, and an evangelistic Nature of God, as He promoted His Nature in their lives.

The Cross of Jesus, and Salvation always seemed to follow these people. Suffering also seemed to be their portion. We look back, and as they say, hindsight is 20:20 vision. It's all right there in front of us.

Usually, their lives were not heralded when they lived..[not always] and most of them were soundly rejected by the religious establishment when they lived.

All of them brought a glory to Jesus remarkable..and their devotion to Jesus astounds me.However, their is a tendency to heroize mankind....and let us remember, that they were just as much a wretch , each day of their lives, as you or I.

They had to trust in the blood each day, that the Father would look upon them covered by the blood of Jesus, and that, and only that, made them pure, and powerful in Him. They were just common men and women, like Elijah, who learned to deny themselves, pick up their own daily deaths to themselves, and follow Jesus.

16. "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

17...Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Just inadequate, common weaklings made strong through a faithful and Mighty Creator and Savior.....Jesus!

Another weakling who made a difference.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10 (King James Version)

8. "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for

......"My strength is made perfect in weakness!"..Jesus

Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:"

...."For when I am weak, then am I strong!"...Paul the Apostle.

Great points, BrotherTom,

We do have a tendency to "heroize" men and go beyond the Word. I think many have found the Word boring today and are seeking experiences and emotional rapture.

We have a tendency to want to live vicariously through dead people's experiences with God rather than experience the Lord, Himself and I don't mean emotionally.

We even do this with those that are alive.

A777

StarofGod,

It's clear you have not read her books. The preponderance of the total of her writings suggest strongly, much differently than what you are proposing.

Peace,
A777

A777 said: "We do have a tendency to "heroize" men and go beyond the Word. I think many have found the Word boring today and are seeking experiences and emotional rapture.

We have a tendency to want to live vicariously through dead people's experiences with God rather than experience the Lord, Himself and I don't mean emotionally."

"We even do this with those that are alive."...A777....

I might say "especially" with those who are alive. There are many that desire a king, and many kings who glory in their congregations as their kingdoms. They seek those who would heroize themselves, submit to them, and honor them.

It is the nature of the "Clergy/Laity, and THE Pastorate...and the true meaning of the "Nicolaitains"...."Kings over my people.." [ which Jesus hates...both deeds and this doctrine..]

Saying that, as the voracious reader you appear to be A777, we both know the blessing and inspiration we have received from devouring some of these Saints who gave all for their master...and fought through all the way.

I'm glad they were recorded...and above all...that the Bible, as you say, was recorded in it's purity. Many gave their lives to see that through too.

Saying that, as the voracious reader you appear to be A777, we both know the blessing and inspiration we have received from devouring some of these Saints who gave all for their master...and fought through all the way.

Point well taken, Tom.

I have been blessed by many testimonies that Glorify Jesus Christ and not men. And learning about Church History has given me an understanding as to why the Church is in such a predicament as it is, today. All foreordained of God, I am sure, to test our love and affection for Him.

A777

Yes, LoveGodsWay2, I have heard others say, except for Guyon the testimonies are wonderful.

Could I ask which Bible would Mme Guyon have possessed?

It seems she was indeed led astray by the misquoting of scripture to her, but I don't believe she would have had either Erasmus' corrected Vulgate, or Calvin or Tyndale.

Now I know more about her story, I see why the hymn which has passed into Protestant hymnbooks - All scenes alike, engaging prove - tie in with Quietism.

Thanks for drawing attention to this.

Dear StarofGod,

Of course I cannot judge her salvation, but when I do a taste test of the water she is handing out, it doesn't taste good. Nothing like the water that the Lord gives.

When we mix the Lord's water with anything else, it causes indigestion and sometimes is poisonous.

Amen AtG.

Kindly,
A777

the human vessels of God's Love and Mercy are David Brainerd, Count Zinzendorff and Dietrich Bonhoeffer....oh yeh, and i happen to be quite fond of King David.....they are templates for me on this walk with God, as well as the Earthly Ministry of Jesus, which is the Foundation.

i got to keep this Faith simple, otherwise i crash and burn.

These were some of my thoughts exactly. Thank you Psalm1. :)

Her devotion to prayer is commendable, but very few people are called to pray only. We are all called to pray in many different ways, and to live, and to serve in the name of Christ.

She lived before the veneration of Mary was absolutely obligatory upon Roman Catholics, thus her freedom to exalt Christ. However, the basis of our salvation is entirely the 'otherness of God' and it is essential that we see Him as not only outside ourselves, but unique in His incarnation.

The turning to one's inner being to FIND God is no-where in scripture a recurrent theme, although we do seek Him with our whole hearts, and when we encounter Him, in right relation to Him, we do know Him in the depths of our being. THIS is what heals and transforms our inner man - which demonstrates our need of His 'otherness'.

In England, around the same time, the Latitudinarians were a small group of academics who had a similar idea - that God is inside oneself, based on this verse:

Psalms 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

But they had access to scripture. If Mme Guyon didn't, then it is unsurprising she could be led astray by over-emphasis on only a few scraps of the word.

I know this seems very unfair about what we are saying regarding Madame Guyon's "contemplative prayer" as being mysticism. We are in no way attacking her and clearly she suffered greatly.

If you take a look at some of these short articles I think you will understand the deception that we are talking about.

Lectio Divina-Sacred Divination
http://onetruthministries.com/LectioDivina.htm

Mystics Misuse of Scripture
http://onetruthministries.com/MysticsMisuseofScripture.htm

Choosing Mystical Union Over the Cross
http://onetruthministries.com/Unionoverthecross.htm

Keating, Kundalini and Contemplative Prayer
http://onetruthministries.com/KundaliniContemplative.htm

Christians Should Dump Contemplative Prayer
http://onetruthministries.com/cp_article.html

Thirteen Reasons Why Mysticism Is Not Compatible With True Evangelical Christianity
http://onetruthministries.com/mysticism_not_compatible.html

Go to his articles section if you would like to read more articles and you will have a better understanding as to how subtle the enemy is in deceiving the Church.

A777

Bless you, AbideinHim,

As I said before, I have been blessed by some things I read from Madame Guyon, as well as Murray, Nee, Penn-Lewis and Wesley.

I have also been blessed by what I have read from Peter in 1st and 2nd Peter.

But, we should always hold to the Word of God knowing that Satan can appear as an angel of light. Peter found this out when he realized what a dupe/pawn of Satan he had been. I am sure he had his disciples that took umbrage at Paul and his "attacks" on Peter and may have even gotten quite emotional that their Peter, was being treated so badly. Fortunately, Peter humbled himself and was the better for it. Hopefully, his disciples followed his lead and from thenceforth would learn that they should follow no man, not even Peter.

So, if all the great personalities in the Christian world are going one way, should we necessarily follow? Do we stop discerning and thinking for ourselves because of what Zac, or Murray, or Nee or even Penn-Lewis say?

There are some genuine spiritual insights in Guyon’s writings, but taken as a whole they are unscriptural and dangerous.

Catholic mystics are being used today very effectively by the spirit of this age (Emergent Church, Ecumenical Movement), to appeal to our EMOTIONS and NEED and DESIRE for EXPERIENCES.

We do not walk by Emotions and Experiences.

Guyon wanted to enter a convent when she was a girl but her parents would not allow it and arranged her marriage to a 37-year-old man when she was only 15. It was an unhappy marriage and she turned increasingly to her mystical experiences and a search for “union with God.”

After her husband died when she was 28 years old, she gave herself wholly to her mystical pursuits. She joined a group of ascetic Catholics led by a Barnabite monk named Francios La Combe. She toured parts of France, Switzerland, and Italy for five years with La Combe, from 1681-86.

La Combe taught that meditation of God requires a passive (quiet) state of contemplation that goes beyond the level of the conscious thinking process.

It was an extreme type of mysticism that became known as Quietism:

“The school of mysticism that Guyon adhered to, sometimes called Quietism, was an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one's inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly. Before Guyon’s day, in the Middle Ages, this took strange forms in erotic ‘bride mysticism’ with some visionaries believing they were married to Jesus. Guyon and the Quietists went further, into something called essence mysticism. They believed that their being was merged with God’s being and the two became one. This unbiblical idea survives today in the New Age and other non-Christian religions. ... She taught that we can know of God by ‘passing forward into God,’ going into a mindless, meditative state where we can get in touch with the Christ within the self, merge with that Christ and be lifted into ecstasy” (The Mindless Mysticism of Madame Guyon).

Guyon claimed that she went through a series of spiritual states by means of her ascetically driven mystical experiences. These are the same type of states that Catholic mystics have always promoted. The first, which she called “union of the powers,” lasted eight years. During this time, she felt drawn to God alone and drawn away from people. The second state, which she called “mystical death,” lasted seven years, during which she had a feeling of detachment from God and was plagued with deep mental depression and thoughts of hell and judgment. She frequently had dark, weird dreams, which she considered a form of revelation. In the third state, which she called “the apostolic state,” she claimed that she was absorbed into and united with God. During this time, she preached, but she did not preach the gospel; she preached mystical experiences.

She promoted contemplative “silence in the presence of God,” which is an attempt to empty the mind of conscious thoughts to commune with God experientially.

Guyon’s contemplative mysticism led her to the heresy of panentheism, that God is in all things. Of the contemplative state she wrote, “Here everything is God. God is everywhere and in all things” (Willigis Jager, The Search for the Meaning of Life, 1995, p. 125).

Lighthouse Trails observes:

“The God of the Bible would not have someone say that God is in everything. This very mindset is what prompted contemplative Brennan Manning to quote Thomas Merton in his book, The Signature of Jesus:

‘During a conference on contemplative prayer, the question was put to Thomas Merton: “How can we best help people to attain union with God?” His answer was very clear: “We must tell them that they are already united with God.” ... Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there’ (The Signature of Jesus, pp. 211, 218 , as cited in A Time of Departing).

“As Merton and Guyon did, those practicing contemplative prayer ultimately come to believe that God is in all people and in all things. This is the “fruit” of contemplative prayer. The reason for this is that in that altered state of silence (the same as the Hinduistic Transcendental state) are demonic influences. It’s as simple as that” (“Concern Expressed over Voice of the Martyrs Article on Mystic Madame Jeanne Guyon,” Lighthouse Trails, Nov. 22, 1010).

Read the rest of the article here:
http://rainhadocanto10-evangelicalchristian.blogspot.com/2010/11/delusions-of-madame-guyon.html

A777

Thank-you A777 for your fine synopsis of Guyon. To me , what you observed historically, and quotes from her, make it Chrystal clear that her revelations of God were indeed transcendental,and steeped in the satanic rituals of Babylon.

She wrote volumes about the different levels of bliss...that the Hindi holy men echo, line upon line, as they speak about the doors opening into Nirvana.

These levels in the east or called Chakra's. They too practice the the art of inward meditation....focus, and repetition to transcend into these levels of consciousness; Thereby attaining revelation through TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION. Sound familiar?

When the Roman Priests of Baal were ordered to mask their religious machinations as another order of Christianity, these marched through a stream on the outskirts of Rome, and called it baptism....and the Universal, world dominion of the one and only holy Church of the Entire world was born....the Roman Catholic [universal] church.

Every Satanic holiday then became a "Christian Roman church holiday...with the exact days of Satanic worship to exact unholy demons, duplicated with the same calender...Astarte: The wicked queen of Heaven....with fertility rites and the days of abstention, and the days of the flesh and orgy....now became lent, and "Easter"...the direct transliteration of the demoness Astarte!

This goes on and on. Over 100 demons were once worshiped on particular days in the ancient world under the Babylonian system. the RCC kept everyone of them, to the day...at one time.

The method of understanding was attained by the Priests of Baal, then, as it is today....Contemplative", or meditative Prayer.....in which Guyon became proficient. She learned and practiced mental telepathy and wrote about communicating without words for years.

She was jailed for refusing to give up her super-Catholicism..[Quietism]..and the practices of it...as a lifestyle.[ Fenelon, one of her friends, [ a powerful Catholic bishop] did...he saw the writing on the wall, and renounced it, as an order from the Pope...and it's radical occultic methods...too radical for the RCC.
Guyon refused...and went to prison.

She hated the reformation, and defamed it, and remained loyal to the Pope unto the end. These are the roots and fruit of her mysticism. Pagan, occultic, and quite bizarre to even the radical monks of the RCC.

She Christianized her pen, and many glean from her experience....which is indeed spiritual, but not formed in the Holy spirit of God.

"I would like to know by what source it says that Fenelon renounced Guyon."
....StarofGod[to BT]

This is what I wrote:
She was jailed for refusing to give up her super-Catholicism..[Quietism]..and the practices of it...as a lifestyle.[ Fenelon, one of her friends, [ a powerful Catholic bishop] did...he saw the writing on the wall, and renounced it, as an order from the Pope...and it's radical occultic methods...too radical for the RCC.
Guyon refused...and went to prison.

Fenelon renounced Quietism! How you derived him renouncing Guyon, from this quote , I cannot understand.
BT.