Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 \t \tAnd I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 \t \tAnd no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 \t \tAnd I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Several chapters detail the tribulations that are unleashed upon the Earth and mankind as each seal is broken. My question is: What is this scroll (book) sealed with seven seals that only Jesus Christ can open and read? Is it the title deed to the Earth? Is it the record book of all of mankind's works? Is it the book of life? Revelation tells all about what happens when the seals are broken, but doesn't say what is written on (in) the scroll. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on this matter. I'm sure we will get a spectrum of opinions.
What is the scroll sealed with seven seals in Revelation?
I believe we find the answer in Daniel 12.
Dan 12:4 But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, to the end time. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I did not understand. And I said, O my lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And He said, Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end time.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified and made white and tested. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And not one of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
Up to this time of the lamb opening the seals, the rulership of this world had been delegated by God to the four kingdoms seen in Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the image in Daniel chapter 2. At the beginning of the judgement time of Rev 4, the last kingdom, ie Roman rule, but a weak form of it, (iron mixed with miry clay) will be in place, as it is today.
The effect of the opening of the seals by the Lamb and the subsequent plages, is the ruination of Roman power and the tranference of this power back to God. It is the smiting stone of Daniel 2 v 45. The plagues and judgements are to undo the evil that has been done to the world under the reign of the four kingdoms of the gentiles and prepare the earth for the rule of the Son of Man.
If we read Daniel's vision in chapter 9 of the four beasts, these are the same kingdoms. Verses 9 and 10 of this chapter are the equivalent of Rev chapter 4, where thrones were set (not "cast down", a bad translation).
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Dan 7:9-10 (KJV)
'Jesus is God's' reference to Daniel 12 is right, and verses 6 and 7 indicate that the book is sealed until the time of the end. There is a three and half year period mentioned here, before the end where God is scattering the power of the holy people (Daniel's people), and at the beginning of this period the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination which makes desolate will be set up.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:6-11 (KJV)
David
I believe this is the book of redemption.The title deed to the earth that adam lost in eden.Sealed with seven seals that gives faith to the bride at the end-time. In revelation10 this same book is open yeah one needs to knew whats in this book i do agree but only christ can tell you.GOD BLESS ALL IN THAT HOLY NAME JESUS THAT IS THE CHRIST.
The 7 seals are the Divinely inspired events and personalities attached, that will come to pass in the End Times. These events are set in the stone of eternity. They will come to pass. Though they culminate in the end-times.and more intensely in the last 42 months of History before He returns......they of course may have their roots deeper than that in history.
This is not a mystery in the sense that it is unexplained. The explanation, though couched in deep mystical Heavenly terminology and symbols, is spoken of in Chapter 7.
In the end of the fulfillment of the seals, as well as the beginning, it is clear that Jesus of Nazareth is Lord, and that these events will bring all glory and honor to His being, and entitled Lordship. The 7 seals cry out; "Jesus is Lord!!! and so worthy of worship.
1.]And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "Come and see."
2.] And I saw, and behold a [ 1st SEAL BROKEN!} white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
[ "I believe this to be Islam. Mohamed [supposedly] rode to Heaven on his famous white horse from the temple mount...to meet Abraham...and God himself.] I think that the "beast" is Islam, and the anti-Christ...as Islam is anti-Christ, will rise here. Islam is antichrist, the white horse.]
3.]And when he had opened the second seal,[ 2nd SEAL BROKEN] I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4And there went out another horse that was red:
[ I believe this to be Communism, or Socialism, in the end times. This began in the French Revolution, and was championed by Marx..and others. Communism has murdered more people than all of the wars ever fought...(Mao and
Stalin=100 million..alone.]...[ the red flag...the Khmer rouge!]
and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."[ hundreds of millions dead..] the red horse.
5.]And when he had opened the third seal,[ 3rd seal broken]
I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6.] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."
I see the 3rd seal to be the New Age ecumenical movement that mixes a one world government with all religions, and combines sorcery too. It's kind of like the "Oprah" gospel...with mediums, gurus, one worlders, and witches...all under a social flag...[ everyone gets wheat,barley, oil and wine....socialist mentality; arm and arm with new-age mysticism.
7.]And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8. "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: [ 4th seal broken...PALE HORSE]
.... and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
I think that this is plague and judgment given to the Earth in these very last days, as peoples stray from the Savior. Because this one kills with death...; only God has the power of death...[ Jesus holds death and Hell..]
9.]And when he had opened the fifth seal,[ 5th SEAl broken.] I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. "
This is the persecution of the church, and obvious martyrdom that will come to pass upon me and you, if we are faithful. [ Most of this by Islam, I'm afraid..]
12.] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,[ Sixth seal Broken] [Sixth Seal Broken] and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[ The signs before He comes. The signs of the coming of the Son of Man!
13.] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17. For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The 7th seal, { He gathers! The Rapture! the great Wrath upon the beast...the Supper of the Lamb! the restoration of the Earth! The Millennium begins!
He returns, gathers His bride, along with saving Jerusalem and the Jews..!!!!
King James Version (KJV)
Wow! Do plagiarism laws not apply to the Scofield Reference Bible?
My brother, I know that you hold these views sincerely but I’ve got to say to you that to my simple mind, they are incredibly complicated and communicate the idea that the Bible is a fairly mysterious book only understood by those who have been to the Jack Van Impe Correspondence School of Hyper-Dispensational Pre-Millenarianism.. (I know that such a place doesn’t really exist, I’m trying to be whimsical.)
I believe that the initial question here was: “What is the scroll sealed with seven seals in Revelation?”
My answer would simply be this (please note the absence of any reference to Oprah, Mohammed, Communism, the modern nation-state called Israel and/or the bible according to Hal Lindsey – I assure you that the Bible can be interpreted without referencing any of this), simply put, in Revelation 5:1, as the scroll and the seals are first brought to our attention we learn that what is contained in the scroll is the plan of God for His Creation… That’s it.
Really, it’s that simple.
Now, of course after reading 5:1 the question becomes, “Who can execute this plan?” – in fact, this is the very question asked in 5:2.
And the answer to this question – after all of heaven and earth is searched (5:3) is, “No one can execute God’s plan…. Except Jesus who has conquered.” (5:5)
Beyond this section, we enter into a prolonged series of judgments from ch.6-17 (the seals, the trumpets and the bowls) I would suggest that each of these judgments describes the same thing seen from different angles.
That is to say that they do not represent some kind of weird-cryptic-chronological-future-sequence of events as some suggest, but much more simply they represent the ongoing and continual situation faced by the saints of God as we live our lives on a fallen planet. Things are a chaotic mess and will get no better until God chooses to come in judgment and bring this fallen creation to an end.
The comforting thing about this prolonged series of judgments contained in ch.6-17 is that they are occasionally interrupted by short scenes that remind us that Christ is in control of his people and of this planet despite the chaos of sin that is all around us (examples of this include 7:1-17 & 11:1-14).
I’ll leave it at that for now.
(I hope this makes sense and that you didn’t take my anti-dispensationalist rants as anything more than an attempt at humor!)
Lord bless!
Wow! Do plagiarism laws not apply to the Scofield Reference Bible?
My brother, I know that you hold these views sincerely but I’ve got to say to you that to my simple mind, they are incredibly complicated and communicate the idea that the Bible is a fairly mysterious book only understood by those who have been to the Jack Van Impe Correspondence School of Hyper-Dispensational Pre-Millenarianism.. (I know that such a place doesn’t really exist, I’m trying to be whimsical.)
I believe that the initial question here was: “What is the scroll sealed with seven seals in Revelation?”
My answer would simply be this (please note the absence of any reference to Oprah, Mohammed, Communism, the modern nation-state called Israel and/or the bible according to Hal Lindsey – I assure you that the Bible can be interpreted without referencing any of this), simply put, in Revelation 5:1, as the scroll and the seals are first brought to our attention we learn that what is contained in the scroll is the plan of God for His Creation… That’s it.
Really, it’s that simple.
Now, of course after reading 5:1 the question becomes, “Who can execute this plan?” – in fact, this is the very question asked in 5:2.
And the answer to this question – after all of heaven and earth is searched (5:3) is, “No one can execute God’s plan…. Except Jesus who has conquered.” (5:5)
Beyond this section, we enter into a prolonged series of judgments from ch.6-17 (the seals, the trumpets and the bowls) I would suggest that each of these judgments describes the same thing seen from different angles.
That is to say that they do not represent some kind of weird-cryptic-chronological-future-sequence of events as some suggest, but much more simply they represent the ongoing and continual situation faced by the saints of God as we live our lives on a fallen planet. Things are a chaotic mess and will get no better until God chooses to come in judgment and bring this fallen creation to an end.
The comforting thing about this prolonged series of judgments contained in ch.6-17 is that they are occasionally interrupted by short scenes that remind us that Christ is in control of his people and of this planet despite the chaos of sin that is all around us (examples of this include 7:1-17 & 11:1-14).
I’ll leave it at that for now.
(I hope this makes sense and that you didn’t take my anti-dispensationalist rants as anything more than an attempt at humor!)
Lord bless!
I found an answer that pretty much satisfies my mind on this question. I found it in a book on spiritual warfare entitled "Everyone's Guide to Demons and Spiritual Warfare" by Ron Phillips. Here is the excerpt dealing with the scroll:
UNLOCKING THE SECRET OF THE SCROLL
In this dramatic scene, in the extended right hand of the enthroned Yahweh is a scroll. The scroll is in the possession of the One in authority, as demonstrated by the throne and the right hand. The right hand represents authority and government. The scroll is written on the inside and outside and sealed with seven seals. What is on the inside is hidden from view. Seven seals represent complete sealing. Thus the decrees on the inside of that scroll cannot be undone by any human power.
In order to understand the scroll's mystery, we must find out what it means. There are over four hundred direct quotes or allusions to the thirty-one books of the Old Testament in Revelation. It would make sense to see if Jewish history can give us a hint about the scroll. That hint is found in the laws of redemption and in the celebration of jubilee. In the ancient world of Israel a family could never completely forfeit land, freedom, or the rights to an heir. Under Jewish law one could forfeit land if they borrowed against it and failed to pay the mortgage. One could also forfeit his or her freedom by becoming an indentured servant in order to pay debt. Also a childless widow had rights in a family to obtain a male heir by levirate marriage.
Let me explain further. If through failure you lost land, freedom, or family rights, they could be redeemed! Redemption meant that all debts had been satisfied.
If someone fell into one of these circumstances, the loss was recorded on a scroll, the scroll was sealed, and the price of redemption was written on the outside. Either the person who forfeited his property or a near relative (a kinsman) could buy back the inheritance.
This is clearly pictured in the Book of Ruth. Elimelech and Naomi mortgaged their property in Bethlehem and journeyed to live in Moab (Jordan). There Elimelech died, and so did his sons Mahlon and Chilion. This left Naomi as a widow with two daughter-in-laws, Orpah and Ruth. Ruth returns with Naomi to Bethlehem in dire poverty. Naomi is a penniless widow; Ruth is a Gentile. Naomi has a relative (a near kinsman) named Boaz. He is rich and willing to redeem Naomi. However, he must also be willing to redeem Ruth by marrying her and raising up seed for the family of the dead Elimelech.
In the process there is a nearer relative who cannot redeem. He indicates his inability by taking off his shoe. Boaz redeems the land of Naomi, marries Ruth, and redeems the whole family.
The scroll in the hand of God represents man's failure from Adam until now. It is the record of Satan's war against humanity and the purposes of God. The scroll represents every sin, every war, every grave, every tear, every defeat, and every misery of the human race. In fact, the scroll is the record and reason for all evil and evil acts on the earth. Just as Naomi's scroll would have recorded all of her losses, so there is a scroll of human misery.
Now the ancient story comes to life as in this scripture the drama of the ages unfolds. In God's right hand is the record! The tragedy in the Garden of Eden turned the earth into a vast graveyard. Our world continues to be ravaged by wars, devastated by disasters, stalked by disease, pursued by terror, limited by mortality, and tinged with terror.
The river of sin and wrong choices flows through the pages of history. The tyranny of Satan and the limitations of mortality have crashed the hope out of humanity. That is what is written in that scroll.
THE TEARS OF HUMANITY
The apostle John, who had the courage to stand by the cross and survive torture and exile, could not be brought to tears by the enemy, yet now he weeps at this scene. The tears of John are your tears and my tears. They represent the heartache of every person who ever felt crushed by failures.
The unopened scroll speaks of human inadequacy. No one could open the scroll of human bondage! Only the tearing away of those seals could open the gates of hell and let humanity go free. All human power, wisdom, education, and progress are inadequate. So tears of despair wet the earth across the ages. This is the record of Satan as the demons wreak havoc upon humanity and upon the planet.
BEHOLD A DELIVERER
The price of redemption is written on the outside of the scroll.
• A near kinsman, Jesus Christ, became a human that He might redeem us.
• The kinsman must be able to redeem: Jesus Christ alone had the price of our freedom, His precious blood.
• The kinsman bust be willing: Jesus Christ willingly suffered to bring us back to freedom.
The angel cries out, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" (Rev. 5:2). The answer is that a Second Adam has come onto the battleground. He is the Lion of Judah; the Jewish Messiah has come to set the entire world free.
Greater than David, a new King has come to reclaim what is rightfully His. When John looks at the Lion, he sees a Lamb! This victory has been won by the Lamb. In the Book of Revelation, the Lamb of God is worthy of worship (Rev. 5:12), the executer of wrath (Rev. 6:16), and the overcomer of Satan (Rev. 12:11). Revelation 5:5 declares that Jesus the Lamb of God has "prevailed." When you see the Lamb, He is standing, not lying in a grave. He is crowned with all authority. He bears the marks of battle, yet He is standing in eternal triumph.
The word prevailed is the Greek word nikao. It is translated "overcome," "conquest," "victory," and "triumph." Here it is in the aorist tense, which means "once and for all." Jesus Christ has prevailed once and for all over all the power of Satan.
THE OVERCOMING CHURCH
The history of the church can be traced in the seven churches of Revelation. Though literal churches, these seven churches seem to represent the timeline of church history. Each of the churches is called upon to overcome. This is the same as the word prevail used to describe Jesus's victory. Those in the church can overcome the enemy.
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
-REVELATION 3:21
We can overcome just as Christ overcame. We can live an enthroned, victorious life with Him. Our overcoming is possible only through His blood.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
-REVELATION 12:11
Our future inheritance is tied to spiritual warfare. If we overcome, we are sons and daughters of God and have a rich inheritance to claim now and in the future.
He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
-REVELATION 21:7
THE BOOK OF WAR
Therefore we will look at the opened scroll of human struggle. In doing so, we will unfold the enemy's hysteria, tirade, and strategy. Furthermore, we will learn how to take the battle to him. Finally, we will learn how to overcome instead of being overwhelmed. We will embrace the lifestyle of victory, not victims.
The first 6 seals parallel strongly with order of events in Mt 24.
1st Seal - White Horse conquering
Mat 24:5 - False Christs
2nd Seal - War
Mat 24:6-7 - Wars and rumors of wars
3rd Seal - Famine
Mat 24:7 - And there shall be famines
4th Seal - Death
Mat 24:7 - and pestilences
5th Seal - Martyrs
Mat 24:9 - Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you
6th Seal - Judgment on Jerusalem begins
Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation
This cannot be just a coincidence. Revelation talks about the same events as Jesus did in Mt 24. The destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD.
A777
Interesting thoughts but with respect I think you have holes in this argument.
1. "White horse conquering" and "False Christs" aren't comparable... There's nothing in Revelation 6 that suggests that these conquerors are anything other than just that... conquerors
2."pestilences" isn't in the oldest Greek texts – not meaning that it won’t be found to be some day but for now it isn’t, and without it your argument falls down
3. you've left out the seventh seal altogether
And over and above all of this, the danger is that we interpret Revelation as some sort of complex code, the big-picture of which is not obvious on the surface…. I disagree.
It coheres pretty tightly with Mt 24. You think it is just a coincidence?
I left out the 7th seal on purpose.
loimos
loy-mos'
Of uncertain affinity; a plague (literally the disease, or figuratively a pest): - pestilence
Not sure what Greek Text you are reading.
White horse and false Christ's could be comparable because the white horse is grouped with the four horsemen and I am not sure Jesus Christ would be grouped with them. False Christs are a type of "conqueror", aren't they?
I never said this was written in stone and it's not my argument, just my observations.
When God gaves us His Word, He did not give it to us to lay on the coffee table or frame on the wall. He wants us to seek Him for meaning and interpretation. I don't fault anyone for postulating what they think and I would love to hear more ideas. My ideas are fine tuned as I hear what others are coming up with through prayer and study.
This is not complex code. Just matching it up with Mt 24. Very easy.
Do you have any further observations regarding the seals?
It helps me to see it from many angles.
A777
Yeah, I'm all for anyone wanting to meditate on Scripture... Absolutely! Let's be thoughtful about it. I'm with you on that - even so, I'm not convinced that it does fit very tightly with Matthew 24.
I wrote some of my views on the seals in an earlier post.
let me know what you think
RevCrabtree, you wrote:
"I hope this makes sense and that you didn’t take my anti-dispensationalist rants as anything more than an attempt at humor!"
My friend, I was in no way offended by your comments or attempt at humour. But the word of God is to be taken seriously, and we should look to Him earnestly and seriously to gain understanding of all scripture.
Humour does not come into it. As Annonymous777 writes: "He wants us to seek Him for meaning and interpretation."
My understanding of scripture does not come from the Scofield bible, but from the Lord; (but you would dismiss Schofield at your peril). I understand what you say about the scrolls being the plan of God for His creation, and it is useful to see scripture in this way. But I would entreat you as a brother, to read Revelation again and see it in the light of future events not yet fulfilled.
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS;" Rev 1:1 (KJV) and:
"Write the things which thou HAST SEEN, and the things which ARE, and the things which SHALL BE HEREAFTER" Rev 1:19 (KJV)
God bless you
David
First of all, of course the book deals in part with future events that aren’t yet fulfilled - i didn't say otherwise in my earlier post - but Revelation also deals with things that have been going on since John wrote it. If you like, the book addresses both the now and the not yet.
You were good enough to mention Revelation 1:19 which I think tells us as much – it says that Revelation deals with things:
\t…that are and those that are to take place after this.
(Revelation 1:19 ESV)
Secondly, as it relates to humor – by all means YES!!! let’s take Revelation (and for that matter all Scripture) VERY seriously… far too seriously to try and interpret it through today’s newspaper.
I don’t take the Bible as being funny but I do find it very “funny” that so many people talk about the clarity and sufficiency of scripture on one hand and then on the other hand they hold to some complicated end-times framework that they themselves probably don’t really understand... This is very “funny”… In a sad way of course.
Thirdly, I think that it is helpful to remember when we approach Revelation that though it was written for our benefit, it WAS NOT WRITTEN TO US in the first instance. It was written to seven churches living at the end of the 1st century in Asia Minor… And but that it is interpreted through this historical context we’ll miss the point… I mean to say, the first century church had to be able to understand the scroll and the seals and the other imagery of Revelation without reference to communism, the pope, the modern secular nation-state of Israel, etc… right?
What I’m trying to say is this, I think that it is far better to consider what Revelation “means” than to discuss what it “means to me”
"Thirdly, I think that it is helpful to remember when we approach Revelation that though it was written for our benefit, it:
... WAS NOT WRITTEN TO US in the first instance."
"It was written to seven churches living at the end of the 1st century in Asia Minor… And but that it is interpreted through this historical context we’ll miss the point" "..RevCrabtree
This is what Revelation 1 says:
1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place."
It may not have been written to everyone, or "US", as you say; but the Revelation was given to His servants...to show them..[ those who are His servants..] THINGS which shall come.
As far as you theory that it was written exclusively to the seven churches in Asia minor;
" It was written to seven churches living at the end of the 1st century in Asia Minor… And but that it is interpreted through this historical context we’ll miss the point…"RevCrabtree
I noticed your reference to the dispensationalism; and your scoffing at Scofield...... [ which fundamentally says that the Lord has set out periods of time where He has set things in motion according to that age....]....and I must say, that this idea that only the 7 churches up near Turkey are directly involved in this word to them, at this particular time in History, Is absolutely dispensational. You speak with two tongues.
..."His servant John; who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."
John the apostle says that this prophecy is the Word of God...and thus elevates it among the rest of Holy Scripture. Also, there is a curse for anyone, at any time, who may pollute it.
John also states that it is not only the Revelation of who Jesus really is, but that this is HIS testimony.....and to keep this prophecy in one's heart of faith as true, as we hear it.
So, then, I might ask you...Where is the man of sin, that Jesus prophesied would be revealed before his coming? and if it is just for those in Asia minor [ the 7 churches], Why is the anti-Christ mentioned so much in Revelation? Those churches have long vanished. So, these words to them have died with them? This must be true if it is as you say;
RevCrabtree writes:
" It was written to seven churches living at the end of the 1st century in Asia Minor… And but that it is interpreted through this historical context we’ll miss the point… "
"I mean to say, the first century church had to be able to understand the scroll and the seals and the other imagery of Revelation without reference to communism, the pope, the modern secular nation-state of Israel, etc… right?"
Wrong. The first Century church understood these prophecies no more than we. They are sealed, and will be unsealed, the closer we come to his coming. This doesn't alleviate the great suffering that shall come upon the Earth in the great End-time Revelation period.
1/3rd of the earth killed...then 1/4th....and world domination by a conqueror...with many martyrs...many...and thirst, and hunger....generally a very tough time. Also, Great Glory, and great promise, along with great warning. KEEP the words of the prophecy..so that you may stand before the Son of Man unstained....and receive the reward of the Ages...Heaven with Jesus and His.
Many will betray another in the church....and there will be a "great falling away."
The letters to these 7 Churches are Divine, and NOT dispensed to a peculiar time period and people. They are the blessings, and warnings of walking in the fullness of Christ, or diverting to a selfish Christianity.
You don't seem to have even a slight handle on this book, while you claim to be an authority. I don't personally know an authority here....but I sure liked Zac Poonen's common sense approach in his series on this book. I would recommend it to you. I learned from it, and was blessed.
I can make heads or tails of what you've written. Sorry.
I can understand that.
Der Rev do you not agree that the things that we see going on in the world each day more increasingly,i.e. famines, pestilence, wars, revolutions, natural disasters as well as a general increase in wickedness are in actual fact end time prophecy as found in Daniel, the Minor Prophets, the olivet discourse, 2nd Tim. 2nd Peter, John's letters and of-course Revelation coming to fulfillment?
Or has Reformed Theology blinded you to this?
your Brother, J. R.
Dear JR,
Contrary to the odd insinuation to the contrary by my friend, the rather hidebound and reactionary brothertomato, I am not a dispensationalist.
So my answer to you is a simple "no."
I do not think it sensible or safe to interpret scripture through the lens of current events…. Current events such as floods, earthquakes, etc. are simply the consequences of life on a fallen planet.
They remind us of a much greater "shaking" that is comimg...
By the way, (just to upset the Dispensationalists!) There is no biblical nor historical evidence for "the Rapture". John Nelson Darby infered the doctrine sometime around 1820.
Yes, but the question is, can anyone else understand it?
What Bible are you reading???
While I agree that there will be a greater "shaking" to come, I am astonished at your ignorance that there is no evidence for the rapture, does your Bible have 1 Thessalonians???
I'm sure that many of my brothers could argue the point better than I can, but the word 'rapture' is derived from the Latin raptus which means to be caught up it's where we get the word raptor meaning bird of prey from, precisely the meaning that Paul has in mind in 1Thes 4.
To deny this doctrine whether it be Pre Trib Mid Trib or Post Trib, is an extreme act of folly on your part my friend.
I would appeal to any brother who has studied this 'vital' doctrine in detail to post what you know on the subject that our dear brother might be corrected accordingly.
As they say, the Revelation needs to be studied along with Daniel - primarily chpts 7-12.
The four horsemen are the same 4 beasts that Daniel saw in Dan 7 - which makes them 4 kingdoms. Daniel 7-12 had been sealed up - and when the LORD unsealed them - He picked right back up from the mystery of Daniel 7-12 with the Revelation and shed even the more light on Daniel's visions.
Daniel 7 gives the description of these 4 kingdoms and the Revelation tells us what these 4 kingdoms will Do, using the horses/men as those loosed upon the earth to work His last days scenario regarding the world but the focus of these kingdoms/horsemen is Israel. Everybody wants Jerusalem for the 'seat of power' for their "messiah" - so these four are much involved with Israel/Jerusalem - though their reigns affect the earth.
I gave what I've researched to be the 4 kingdoms/horses on another thread and as Daniel 7 states - they'll be around until the Ancient of days takes them out at His Coming with His Saints and that they are 4 kingdoms that "raise up in the latter days". They're not "religions" or any other "isms" but Kingdoms with rulers over them.
Rev 13:2 gives the merger of these 4 from Daniel 7 as the description of the last days Beast system = the Diverse Beast with a mouth like a Lion, that was like a leopard/panther, and had the feet of the bear - forming the Diverse Beast. If one doesn't understand Daniel 7, they'll make up what the 4 are from their own minds - and not see that these are actual kingdoms/nations except for the Diverse Beast/4th horsemen - which is a combination of kingdoms - the one we see in the Beast system of Rev 13:2.
As we saw in Daniel 12, the book was sealed up until the end of days and would be opened when "those days" began.
Those days began with Israel becoming an nation and what kingdoms were involved in declaring her a nation.
One need only go to Wikipedia :) to find out what four kingdoms were involved in Israel being regathered and Coincidently - the first three beasts of Daniel 7 use the exact same "symbol for their nations" as we presently use in 'this' generation for these nation/kingdoms. That alone should help us to see that the Revelation horses are the updated version of Daniel 7.
Which nations/powers have been symbolized in 'our' days, since the 1940's as "the Lion" [the 'eagles wings'], the "panther/leopard", and the "bear" and lastly - a Diverse Beast that is a combo of these three?
Not much sense in posting Israel's and the UN history again, because everyone has their own interpretation for the 4 beasts of Daniel and the 4 horsemen and in many ways, it doesn't matter because the whole of it will be played out in front of our eyes soon enough by the 4.
Well, the question of the thread was, what was that which was sealed and I 'think' we may agree that it was Daniel's visions being unsealed in the Revelation.
It's just a question of coordinating the two books and with actual history of those 4 beasts of Daniel 7 and on through to Daniel 12. We're half-way through the first horsemen [the Lion who's 'eagle's wings' were plucked] - so it's going to be quite a ride from here when the price of food goes up world-wide next, including in the good ol' USA, as it was in Germany as Hitler came on the scene with his 'panther' [which is leopard] symbol, [the black horse] [nazi like socialism] - and then Russia with it's war,[the red horse] - and then the Diverse beast, [the green/pale horse] that comes in to make [a false] peace by destroying many.
And from one of these 4 rises up the little horn, that son of perdition. The first 7 verses of Daniel 8 tell us who this antiChrist is "not" or from which kingdom he does Not come out of - but it takes intensive study and pushing aside a lot of what we find easier to believe, but the fact that these are 4 kingdoms should be clear enough to see from Daniel and how they tie in with the 4 horsemen is something that one will see as time goes on.
That's it for what was sealed up and now unsealed - the 4 kingdoms/horsemen who have been involved with Israel being regathered as a nation and what comes after, until He Returns to rid us of these 4 beasts with their little horn Chief.
RevCrabtree, I don't know what your beliefs are, but I'd like to say that I'm not dispensational, but do believe in a post-trib resurrection of the Saints, AT His Returning and believe that if read literally, that Rev 20 shows a millenial reign, followed by the war of Gog and Magog, vs 8.
Would like to hear your views on this Resurrection of the Saints.
Back to Daniel 7 - these two verses is, in part, what I was trying to say above - Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. and Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth
and then on to Dan 8 is more about the 4 - Dan 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
And - Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
In eschatology - wherever "4" are mentioned, it's the same 4. GOD is not the author of confusion and there is indications in both Daniel and the Revelation that these things were written for us to "understand".
Wherever the "10" are mentioned in either book, they are the same "10" that are part of the Diverse Beast or the Beast System that will rule the world, out from which shall rise the antiChrist - as seen in Dan 7, 8 and Rev 13.
It's only when we make 'many' explanations of who these 4 and 10 are that we get far too speculative and GOD doesn't play with our minds with multiple 4's and multiple 10's and then say that we should "understand". Hoy - Thank GOD!
By the way - the eagle's wings HAVE BEEN "plucked" and that's the sad news for some very nationalistic people - as the Lion has shown just recently what it thinks of the eagle's "king", just within this last week. Those from the Lion Kingdom may have heard that story already. It's sort of funny but eschatologically speaking, it's not.
Just thought I'd clarify about the Scoffield comment.
Peace!
I MOSTLY AGREE WITH THE RATHER LENGTHY ARTICLE BELOW, WITH SOME OF MY IDEAS INTERMINGLED.
For those of you interested in a different view; take the time to read it. It is interesting to me. I am leaning this way...but in no way would I say I have it pegged.....BT
"Daniel 7 states - they'll be around until the Ancient of days takes them out at His Coming with His Saints and that they are 4 kingdoms that "raise up in the latter days". They're not "religions" or any other "isms" but Kingdoms with rulers over them." JIG...Jesus is God
Yes, they are Kingdoms...but the spirit of the Kingdoms represent the Princes and Principalities seated in the heavenly realm. I do not believe that these beasts are the same as the 4 Horseman, but related. The White horse is Islam, and the kings are Satanic Princes..abd the little horn, as I see it, is the Islamic anti-Christ coming.
1st beast...winged lion...Babylon
2nd beast...Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...
bear - Medo-Persia
3rd beast.[leopard ]..Greece
4th beast...Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...
fourth "dreadful" - The Roman Empire
..............ARTICLE................
On the prior page Daniel defined the term "beast" when used in the context of a dream or vision in prophecy: Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...
BEAST = KINGDOM
[In this you are correct JIG.]
Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" discussed with a broad understanding of them to be the successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, reappear together in scripture only one more time - in Revelation Chapter 13 - but combined into a single composite "beast" - kingdom.
Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (Daniel's beast is "his")
(The Greek interlinear below helps us understand who it is that gives what to whom.)
The reverse order was perhaps because Daniel was forward looking at these kingdoms to come, while John was looking backward at their fulfillment. This leopard-bear-lion beast was to continue 42 months.
The seats of the ancient successive kingdom beasts of Daniel's lion, bear and leopard which are widely believed to be Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, are occupied today by the countries of Iraq, Iran, and Syria/Lebanon.
The dragon in the verse above is Satan. The power that Satan gave his Islamic kingdom "beast" is oil. No surprise we find western nations whoring themselves out to countries that are composed of up to 100% antichrists, that are even sworn to annihilate us, to keep the flow of oil going.
Even giving weapons to these countries that will eventually be turned on Israel. This while the same nations evermore compromise the safety and freedom of the Israelis, who are the only people in the Middle East, that share our western values. Indeed Muslims enjoy more freedom in Israel than they do in any Islam controlled state on earth.
This Islamic kingdom is described "as a leopard", perhaps because while an individual Muslim can change it is impossible for Islam to change, as long as the Quran (mouth of the "beast") exists:
Jerimiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
While these countries and various sects of Islam may have differences, and some with national sovereignty, they are perfectly united spiritually through the false prophet Mohammed and his Quran.
As a result they are filled with the spirit of antichrist because their belief that God has no Son, or "shirk", is the most important fundamental in Islam.
Iraq 97%, Iran 98%, Syria/Lebanon 90%/60% Islamic.
Bible prophecy is ethnographic and therefore is largely about the Middle East and the Holy Land.
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Thus it is necessary to understand it in the context of the times during which John was writing - looking through his eyes at his world - to apply this ethnographic hermeneutic. Terms like "whole world" are not about Peoria Illinois. "that deceiveth the whole world".
Thus John's "whole world" is virtually entirely Islamic, with the exception of Israel, and small percentages of persecuted Christians in a few other countries in the area.
However the Lord's interest isn't likely to lie in the artificial boundaries of men, but rather in the spiritual condition of mankind. Men united by the spirit of antichrist, in this case. Each of Daniel's successive kingdoms conquered the whole known world (Middle East area) in its turn.
Leopard-Bear-Lion - Islamic Empire
While some Muslims may be unaware that other Muslims mark the Quran with the number 666, former PLO terrorist Walid Shoebat also said that the moment he saw the GREEK symbol for 666, he read it as the ARABIC symbol for "Bismillah", or "in the name of Allah."
There are ISLAMIC web sites that discuss how the number 666 demonstrates the perfection of the Quran, and that the Quran "is the 666". This number association of 666 was prophesied in Scripture 500 years before Mohammed was born and is explored more completely on this page.
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
It is very important to understand The History of Mecca.
For nearly thirty years, seventy-nine year old Ellis Skolfield has written about the central role of Islam in Second Coming prophecy, by studying within the traditional continuous-historic framework.
NOTES ON THE LEOPARD-BEAR-LION BEAST
Some Muslims claim the Bible was corrupted to demonize Islam, but this would have been an impossibility since it had been copied thousands of times and translated into many languages over the hundreds of years before Mohammed was ever born.
The Quran, on the other hand, was collected on stones and palm leaves, wasn't even written until long after Mohammed died, and the current Middle East version was selected from among many versions - while burning the rest - twice. Here is an online book written by M. Ali - a Nigerian former Muslim - now Christian evangelist - that discusses the differences between Islam vs. Christianity and the Bible vs. the Quran.
With the understanding of the kingdom beast Islam, and the false prophet Mohammed, marked by the number 666, we can now exegete Chapter 13 of Revelation without trouble, and indeed the book of Revelation, reconciling it with the book of Daniel, as well as the Olivet Discourse, through this perspective - and confirm it all mathematically.
The two horned beast of Rev chapter 13 is covered in chapter 12 of The False Prophet. It is manifest in the Crusades and the British mandate and the remnant of the Roman Empire, unto today. The False Prophet includes a sound hermeneutic study of FULFILLED prophecy, not guesswork theology. It may not fit some of the 20th century church's pop-eschatological doctrines, but it fits scripture very well when we employ sound study principles, and is also manifest in the world around us.
This study employs a traditional linear historic, or continuous historic, view of prophecy.
[ all above study by; beholdthebeast.com ]BT
We see what happens to the Medes and Persians in Daniel chpt 8 and then we're back to the 4 again in 8:8 - and from one of the four comes the little horn / the antiChrist.
This is not merely speculation but having been shown the plans of the nwo minds from centuries past until present.
The three monotheistic religions are to be gotten rid of by turning the three against each other and that is what is known to be called just a part of "The Plan" for a one world government.
The powers that be are not threatened in the least by "islamic/muslims" but are only using them - temporarily to bring about their nwo - period.
This is not guess work, but decades of research into the mind and guts of those who are bringing in their nwo and how they have been and will make it all happen. These "4" are running this world as we speak and that is a documentable fact. Nothing of what has been written has been guess work but based upon full documentation of the powers that presently run this world and for one purpose only and have but one purpose for Jerusalem.
But, believe as you wish - it will happen as they've planned for many hundreds of years - will use the UN to do it and we may very well be around to see all of Daniel fulfilled. Daniel 8 is rather clear on what happens to the Medes and Persians. The nwo is and will be white-anglo-saxons - as are the first three beasts of Dan 7 and babylon herself and eventually the Diverse beast will be as well.
One would need to extensively look into the powers-that-be that rule this world, who's only aim is global depopulation for their one world utopia - and the true Christians, Jews and Muslims are not part of their plans in any way except to be exterminated.
These are the 4 powers that have run this world since just before and during the time that Israel was called Israel again. Look into how that happened and you may know who has run this world. It sure has not been islamics.
That is the same cookie-cutter eschatology that we've see on all the bookstands in Chritian book stores and it's nonsense. To bluntly spit it out - just for two - It's been London and New York that have run most of this world's finance decisions and all decisions, from as far back as one can look and since the UN has been in NY - the UN has been running things with their OK and also of Russia and China. Look into who the 5 are that are the head member states of the UN Security Council. Look to see who are comprise "The Quartet".
I won't say much more about this. If these 4 powers are not seen for who they are and how much power they've had in world history up until this present day - there's no sense to even begin to try to drag up that much history about them now. People believe what they choose and regardless of London, New York, Russia, the UN and Germany's role in world events - until the he-goat does what he's going to do as per Dan 8:1-7 - people will believe what they read in their Newspapers and won't be watching for that little horn to rise out of the one who takes down those that they thought was the greatest threat.
shalom.
"We see what happens to the Medes and Persians in Daniel chpt 8 and then we're back to the 4 again in 8:8 - and from one of the four comes the little horn / the antiChrist" JIG
I believe that it is widely accepted that the the he goat with the great horn in chapter 8 which broke the power of the Medo Persian kingdom was Alexander the Great (the king of Grecia v21).
Historians agree that, on his death, his kingdom was divided beltween his 4 generals (to the 4 winds v.8): One of these generals founded the Ptolomeic kingdom in Egypt and he and his successors are known as the king of the south in Daniel. Another General founded the Seleucidan kingdom and is known as the king of the north. (King Herod came from this line).
The 'little horn" of v. 5 is a descendant of the Seleucian line called Antiochus Epiphenes, who in BC 170 stormed Jerusalem, slaying multitudes and selling others into captivity. He profaned the temple by setting up an idol to Jupiter Olympias, and took away the daily sacrifices (1 Maccabedees 1 v54). This was shown to Daniel in chap 8 v 9 to 12.
But all this already fulfilled prophesy is just the TYPE of what will happen in the last days.
The Type is Antiochus Epiphenes. The ANTITYPE (what the type represents) is the Antichrist himself.
The Type is Greek. The Antitype is Roman.
The Type ruled for six and a half years (v14 - 2300 days. NB these are real days of evenings and mornings - see v 26). The Antitype will rule for three and a half years. (God has shortened the time Matt 24)
Both Type and Antitype do many similar things, as this is prophecy, and the Lord is showing us, by the Type, the true character of the Antitype. But only the Antichrist will fulfill all the prophesy completely. It is, I believe, the same with the part fulfillment by the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in AD 70.
So Chap 8 gives us a forward history of the Type, the Grecian, Seleucian king, descendant of Alexander. But chapter 11 shows clearly, especially from v 36 the prophesied history of the the Antitype, who is the Antichrist. But rejoice, for "yet he shall come to his end".
David
Hi David. Yes, I am aware of this interpretation and how it fits Alexander - but reading on to the 'Saint's' and Gabriel's interpretation to Daniel gives us an understanding of this little horn that many scholars cross-reference forward to the coming anti-Christ.
Many prophecies have dual fulfillments and those who leave it just as Alexander are mainly the Early reformed theology amillenialists.
But Daniel 8:11 is cross-referenced to Dan 12:11
Daniel 8:13 is cross-referenced to Matt 24:15
Gabriel's words -
Dan 8:17 ""So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man:
for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation:
for at the time appointed the end shall be.""
And on from there describing this 'little horn' such as -
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance,
and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power:
and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper,
and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart,
and by peace shall destroy many:
he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;
but he shall be broken without hand.