For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:8\tHe who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

From the beginning, the devil has worked to corrupt God's creation. Paul says this of one he met along his way as he preached the gospel...

Act 13:10\tand said, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, [you] son of the devil, [you] enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?

What is the work of the devil?

As I begin this thread...here is another thought to meditate on...

1Jo 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

John writes..."For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,"

The revelation of the Son of God destroys the works of the devil.

How have we come to understand this precept in our own lives?

It would be great I guess, if there was no battle and no fight that we needed to be engaged in, but that is not reality, is it?

As I see it there are three parts to the battle. The first is the battle being waged by Satan for all the lost. The second part is the work to deceive those who have repented and are born of God. The third part is that once we understand Satan's ways we are enabled to fight for the lost souls and for our brothers and sisters.

John writes...

1Jo 2:12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.

1Jo 2:14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.

This is an example of those who grow in knoledge and understanding of the word of God.

Notice, the quality of the young man...

"I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one."

And we know this according to the Scriptures...

Hbr 5:13 For everyone who partakes [only] of milk [is] unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

Hbr 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, [that is], those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The things I plan on covering may cause offense to those who have not by "reason of use" had "their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Therefore I hope that the Scriptures that I post will be a sufficient commentary of themselves. I trust in the word of God only.

Satans works are; take away all that is of God coming down from the Father of light, all that is good, is the deceivers work to destroy and bring into his work, which is against all that God is, especially the children of God in Christ Jesus.

John 8:42-45 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. ((((((Ye are of your father the devil,))))) and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Only Christ can set us free. John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Satan work is to deceive and take away by lying, the freedom God the Father has birthed in us by His Son.

In Christ, free indeed: Phillip

Besides, he's been here since 2003 - he has some seniority. :)

I can only share, what and where I have been in Scripture. In terms of seniority I am almost 15 years old in the Lord. That is why my name is rookie. Please do not put your trust in me but only search the Scriptures.

The question before all of us is, do we choose to hear? I have experienced heavy burdens and struggles in my spirit when I have chosen not to believe the word of God. The only way to find relief is to believe. And often times I also am then blessed by submitting to the truth. That is when one comes to understand: that in one's flesh their is nothing to boast about. For it all comes from God through the Holy Spirit which impart Christ's life unto us.

This is going to be slow with many small points along the way. And I am sure and look forward in hope to see "iron sharpening iron" and see the fruit that is promised to those who by reason of use, have their senses sharpened, to discern what is evil and what is good.

Eph 4:13\ttill we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

For the Scriptures warn...

Pro 1:22\t"How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.

Pro 1:23\tTurn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.

Eph 4:14\tthat we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested...

Jesus said this of Himself...

Jhn 8:12\tThen Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

Jesus had just told the woman to "sin no more." He then reveals the only way in which man may fulfill this demand upon his life.

Jesus declares that man may live in two realms. The first realm is to walk in darkness. The second realm is to walk in the direction of light. If one chooses to follow the light one will not walk in darkness but instead discover the light of life.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,

John wrote this of Jesus...

Jhn 1:1\tIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2\tHe was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3\tAll things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Jhn 1:4\tIn Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:9\tThat was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. [fn]

The life is the light of men...and all things made are made through Him. That includes our faith.

Have we known "the Life" or is it just a story of someone who lived 2000 years ago?

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,

and the life was the light of men.

Paul explains to us that this life consists of...

1Cr 1:30\tBut of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--

In another place Paul writes of the same life...

Rom 1:16\tFor I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

The substance of the Life which is the light of men is that it is good news. Wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption is dependent on the power of God. The substance of this "life" becomes salvation for the Jews and gentiles.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested...

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,

Rom 1:16\tFor I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Paul continues to speak of the "power of God to salvation"...

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

The gospel of Christ and the power of God are not separate distinct ideas. The gospel of Christ is the result of the power of God enabling men to find salvation. "For in it", that is "salvation" comes to man as "the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith..."

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

Paul writes about faith in this way...

Rom 10:17\tSo then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The righteousness of God is revealed to those "by hearing." Paul writes that one who lives by faith will hear the word of God. And that hearing will be a continuous experience. One will live faith to faith. Salvation is the sum of revelation through hearing the word of God.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

This work of God reminds me of this Scripture...

Pro 4:18\tBut the path of the just [is] like the shining sun, That shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.

Those who walk in the paths of the Lord will find the increase that comes from God. He alone can lift our countenance toward heaven.

Psa 119:102\tI have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me.

Psa 119:103\tHow sweet are Your words to my taste, [Sweeter] than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104\tThrough Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.

Psa 119:105\tNUN. Your word [is] a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

Psa 119:129\tPE. Your testimonies are wonderful; Therefore my soul keeps them.

Psa 119:130\tThe entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.

Psa 119:131\tI opened my mouth and panted, For I longed for Your commandments.

Psa 119:132\tLook upon me and be merciful to me, As Your custom [is] toward those who love Your name.

Psa 119:133\tDirect my steps by Your word, And let no iniquity have dominion over me.

What is the "substance" this man hoped for?

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

What is the "substance" this man hoped for?

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

"The substance of things hoped for" can be identified in the life of the believer as well as the life of a nonbeliever. The believer walks in the light and the nonbeliever walks in darkness.

Those who walk in the light will experience according to what Paul wrote, "Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;..."

The righteousness of God is revealed to those who believe. We have this testimony of one who did believe...

Psa 119:102 I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are Your words to my taste, [Sweeter] than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104 Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.

Psa 119:105 NUN. Your word [is] a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

The man who wrote the words above, what is the "substance of the things hoped for" in his testimony? What "turned him on?"

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

Paul write this to the Corinthian church...

1Cr 2:1\tAnd I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony [fn] of God.

1Cr 2:4\tAnd my speech and my preaching [were] not with persuasive words of human [fn] wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1Cr 2:5\tthat your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Paul points to the fact that many rely on the wisdom of men.
Paul makes this distinction between human wisdom and the true means by which man is saved...

Our faith must be a product of the power of God.

Paul writes of this distinction...

1Cr 1:30\tBut of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--

1Cr 1:31\tthat, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD." [fn]

Then, whenever Paul refers to the OT scriptures one should seek to understand more fully why he submitted this for thought....

Jer 9:23\tThus says the LORD: "Let not the wise [man] glory in his wisdom, Let not the mighty [man] glory in his might, Nor let the rich [man] glory in his riches;

Jer 9:24\tBut let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the LORD.

But many in that generation did not find this in their lives...

"That he understands and knows Me,"

Jer 9:12\tWho [is] the wise man who may understand this? And [who is he] to whom the mouth of the LORD has spoken, that he may declare it? Why does the land perish [and] burn up like a wilderness, so that no one can pass through?

Jer 9:13\tAnd the LORD said, "Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice, nor walked according to it,

Listen carefully..."and have not obeyed My voice, nor walked according to it...

The "substance of the things hoped for" were not based on His "voice."

Jer 9:23\tThus says the LORD: "Let not the wise [man] glory in his wisdom, Let not the mighty [man] glory in his might, Nor let the rich [man] glory in his riches;

Jer 9:24\tBut let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I [am] the LORD,

"But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me..."

I am currently reading a book written by Ron Paul, Liberty Defined. Paul has chosen 50 different topics to write on which reveals his thoughts about liberty.

As I read of his thoughts and contemplate on his perception of American life, I am given insight into a man's life. I begin to see what he considers truth. I begin to see what motivates him. I begin to see what he hates. I begin to see how he has come to cherish liberty. I begin to understand him by what he has written.

As I reflect on Paul's book and its' content, I am given a more intimate insight into what makes this man tick. In the same way God has given us the Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures are given to us so that we might begin to understand God and His creation.

Yet as I reflect on Ron Paul's book, I really don't know him because of what is written. For me to know Ron Paul, is different from me understanding Ron Paul. To know Paul requires that I speak and listen to him in close proximity. To know him requires that we share our personal thoughts with one another. To know Ron Paul requires that I travel along with him time after time, sharing the good times and the hard times.

One must make this distinction between a book written by Ron Paul and the Holy Scriptures written by the Holy Spirit.
Reading a book written by a man such as Ron Paul, one would find that there is bound to be "inconsistencies" between what Paul has written and how one has come to know him through the process of time. However, one will never find "inconsistencies" between what God has written and how one has come "to know" God through the process of time.

So as there is only one way "to know" a man like Ron Paul, there is only one way "to know" God. God has given His Holy Spirit to men so that men might listen to Him. God has given His Holy Spirit to men so that men might walk in light of His revelation.

Jer 9:24\tBut let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the LORD.

How many are like those whom this Scripture speaks of...

Jer 9:13\tAnd the LORD said, "Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice, nor walked according to it,

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

Jer 9:24\tBut let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the LORD.

Paul and Jeremiah write of the same precept. The Lord reveals lovingkindness, judgement, and righteousness in the earth. And the Lord delights in those who glory in the Lord. Solomon writes of the revelation of the Lord...

Pro 8:17\tI love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me.

Pro 8:18\tRiches and honor [are] with me, Enduring riches and righteousness.

Pro 8:19\tMy fruit [is] better than gold, yes, than fine gold, And my revenue than choice silver.

Pro 8:20\tI traverse the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice,

Pro 8:21\tThat I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth, That I may fill their treasuries.

Pro 8:22\t"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.

Pro 8:23\tI have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.

Pro 8:24\tWhen [there were] no depths I was brought forth, When [there were] no fountains abounding with water.

Pro 8:25\tBefore the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth;

Pro 8:26\tWhile as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, Or the primal dust of the world.

Pro 8:27\tWhen He prepared the heavens, I [was] there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Pro 8:28\tWhen He established the clouds above, When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,

Pro 8:29\tWhen He assigned to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth,

Pro 8:30\tThen I was beside Him [as] a master craftsman; [fn] And I was daily [His] delight, Rejoicing always before Him,

Pro 8:31\tRejoicing in His inhabited world, And my delight [was] with the sons of men.

Pro 8:32\t"Now therefore, listen to me, [my] children, For blessed [are those who] keep my ways.

Pro 8:33\tHear instruction and be wise, And do not disdain [it].

Pro 8:34\tBlessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at the posts of my doors.

Pro 8:35\tFor whoever finds me finds life, And obtains favor from the LORD;

Like Jeremiah who wrote"For in these I delight," so Solomon wrote, "And my delight [was] with the sons of men."

These are those who know the "master craftsman."

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;

That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.

Pro 8:32\t"Now therefore, listen to me, [my] children, For blessed [are those who] keep my ways.
Pro 8:33\tHear instruction and be wise, And do not disdain [it].
Pro 8:34\tBlessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35\tFor whoever finds me finds life, And obtains favor from the LORD;

Pro 8:1\tDoes not wisdom cry out, And understanding lift up her voice?
Pro 8:2\tShe takes her stand on the top of the high hill, Beside the way, where the paths meet.
Pro 8:3\tShe cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors:
Pro 8:4\t"To you, O men, I call, And my voice [is] to the sons of men.
Pro 8:5\tO you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
Pro 8:6\tListen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips [will come] right things;
Pro 8:7\tFor my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8\tAll the words of my mouth [are] with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse [is] in them.
Pro 8:9\tThey [are] all plain to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.

Scripture teaches us that God speaks to men...for the Scripture says...
\t"To you, O men, I call, And my voice [is] to the sons of men.

That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.

Pro 8:22\t"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
Pro 8:23\tI have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
Pro 8:24\tWhen [there were] no depths I was brought forth, When [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25\tBefore the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth;
Pro 8:26\tWhile as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, Or the primal dust of the world.
Pro 8:27\tWhen He prepared the heavens, I [was] there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28\tWhen He established the clouds above, When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29\tWhen He assigned to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
Pro 8:30\tThen I was beside Him [as] a master craftsman; [fn] And I was daily [His] delight, Rejoicing always before Him,

.......

Gen 1:1\tIn the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2\tThe earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] [fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3\tThen God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

.......

1Pe 1:19\tbut with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
1Pe 1:20\tHe indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
1Pe 1:21\twho through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

.......

Rev 13:8\tAll who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Christ is the "master craftstman" who "was foreordained" to be the "light" of the world. And there are those who are "written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." This work of God is the work that was predestined to be the means of salvation for those who live by faith. And this is the gospel of Christ.

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;

Pro 8:22\t"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
Pro 8:23\tI have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.

1Pe 1:20\tHe indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world,...

Psa 2:7\t"I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You [are] My Son, Today I have begotten You.

Rev 13:8 ... the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God predestined the work of Christ so that He could say...

That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.

Rev 13:8 ... the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We have two subjects in this verse. We have those who are in the Book of Life, and Christ the author who was "slain from the foundation of the world." The author of the book of Hebrews writes this of Christ's work...

Hbr 5:9\tAnd having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Hbr 5:9\tAnd having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Rev 13:8 ... the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

To be in the Book of Life one has to obey the author.

Again, Paul writes...

Rom 1:16\tFor I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

So this precept of salvation, the power of God, working in those who live by faith has been established from the foundation of the world. And all who experience the revelation of God's righteousness are those who live faith to faith. It is those who obey the author time after time.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested....

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

So the precept of faith is dependent on the revelation of God's righteousness to man. The following Scripture say this of the nature of the revelation...

Hbr 11:3\tBy faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God. Faith is the result of hearing the word of God. The worlds or ages were "framed" by the word of God. The word "framed" is translated from the Greek word "katartizō." This word's meaning is expressed this way...

1) to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete
a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair
1) to complete
b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust
1) to fit or frame for one's self, prepare
c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be

The purpose of faith is then to be "mended (what has been broken)" or to be "put in order", or "make one what he ought to be", or "to complete", or "to adjust", or "to equip"...BY THE WORD OF GOD.

Hbr 11:3\tBy faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Paul teaches in first chapter of Romans...

Rom 1:20\tFor since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

So men are without excuse because God has revealed to man through the Son of God by the power of the Holy Spirit the ways in which man is to live. John writes of this truth...

Jhn 1:3\tAll things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Jhn 1:4\tIn Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:9\tThat was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. [fn]

Jhn 1:12\tBut as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Jhn 1:13\twho were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God. As many who live by faith to them He gave the right to become children of God...

Hbr 11:3\tBy faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Rom 1:20\tFor since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

We find that this precept is illustrated clearly for us in the testimonies of Cain and Abel.

Hbr 11:4\tBy faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

Both Cain and Abel were "framed" by the word of God. Both were without excuse, because God spoke to them.

So we know that this Scripture is true from the foundation of the world...

Rom 1:20\tFor since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Rom 1:20\tFor since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

In the testimony of Cain and Abel we find that the Lord's ways are full of mercy and grace. These first offspring of Adam and Eve are the first to be born into a world that corruption has entered. We find that the Lord still cares for His creation. We find that His desire is that what Peter writes.

2Pe 3:9\tThe Lord is not slack concerning [His] promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, [fn] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord's desire for both Cain and Abel to become children of God are clearly illustrated for us. Yet we are told that "By faith" Abel obtained a righteous testimony. We find that Cain chose another path, and did not find repentance.

Obedience time after time sounds like perpetual obedience which we know is not possible in this life. To be in the book of life one has to TRUST the Author, even with the smallest of trust. Obedience then grows as trust grows.

I agree with your statement in part. For we are given many testimonies in Scripture where those who are justified and live by faith, fail at times to remain obedient. With that said, I do not believe Scripture teaches that trust comes before obedience. I believe in fact trust is grown in those who continually call on the name of the Lord to deliver them from the corruption of this life. Faith to faith living proves to us that the Lord is faithful to deliver us from our current circumstances.

The testimony of Abraham's life is a clear illustration of this precept. After years of following the Lord we have this insight into the depth of trust that the Lord had instilled in Abraham...

Hbr 11:17\tBy faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

Hbr 11:18\tof whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called," [fn]

Hbr 11:19\tconcluding that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.

Abraham was tested by the Lord. Abraham, who received the promises, was able to "conclude" that God was able to raise Isaac up.

What does the word "conclude" suggest about Abraham's understanding and knowledge of the Lord?

True obedience can ONLY come in trust!

Psa 119:65\tTETH. You have dealt well with Your servant, O LORD, according to Your word.

Psa 119:66\tTeach me good judgment and knowledge, For I believe Your commandments.

Psa 119:67\tBefore I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word.

Psa 119:71\t[It is] good for me that I have been afflicted, That I may learn Your statutes.

Psa 119:75\tI know, O LORD, that Your judgments [are] right, And [that] in faithfulness You have afflicted me.

Did this man learn to trust first or did the Lord teach him to obey first?

We know that if we obey we get blessed. We know that. We just don’t know how to obey.

This is partly true. As Paul wrote...

Rom 7:18\tFor I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find.

Then Paul points to Christ...

Rom 8:1\t[There is] therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, [fn] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

This thread is about the power of the Holy Spirit who counsels us in the ways of righteousness. Only by the Spirit can man know the mind of Christ. For Paul writes of the carnal mind...

Rom 8:7\tBecause the carnal mind [is] enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Rom 8:8\tSo then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

The work of the Holy Spirit teaches us not to trust in our carnal mind, but to look unto Christ who is the light of life.

This man be David, saved since his youth. The words written were written after his youth. He trusted first, then fell, then learned better how to obey.

I have never seen a copy of the Scriptures that declare that the writer of Psalm 119 is David.

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

According to Scripture: Does God continue to reveal His righteousness to those who choose not to live "faith to faith"?

"It seems to me to be a collection of David's pious and devout ejaculations"

As a side thought...

Job 5:17 "Behold, happy [is] the man whom God corrects; Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty.

Hbr 12:11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Pro 3:11 My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor detest His correction;
Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loves He corrects, Just as a father the son [in whom] he delights.
Pro 3:13 Happy [is] the man [who] finds wisdom, And the man [who] gains understanding;

Who would you attribute these thoughts to?

Who obeyed something that they did not trust to be true? Simon the sorcerer did, likewise so did Judas, and Cain, and a whole host of others.

Let us discuss Cain's life so that we might see what it is that seperates Cain from Abel in terms of trust versus faith...

Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.

Gen 4:4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

Gen 4:5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

From this Scripture we find first that God respected Abel and not Cain. Secondly we find that Cain was upset that God did not accept his offering. Scripture says that Cain's countenance fell.

From Scripture we find that Cain was feeling rejected by the Lord. Does this imply that Cain wanted God's blessing?

Various men under the inspiration of God.

All three verses come from different generations. Job knew this precept before the word was written. And we see that Solomon, and the writer of Hebrews all know the same precept.

All, as you have said, heard it from the Lord, the Word.

So with that in mind, if the Scriptures don't tell us who wrote a particular section of the Bible, then I believe that the Lord had a purpose for not telling us.

So why add to the Scriptures?

It could imply a lot of things. From not wanting God's disapproval to wanting His approval, to wanting to be blessed. What we know that it doesn't mean is that Cain did not want fellowship with God.

I don't see it as you have...listen to what God says to Cain.

Gen 4:6\tSo the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7\t"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire [is] for you, but you should rule over it."

God exhorts Cain to repent. He says, "If you do well, will you not be accepted?" God wanted fellowship with Cain.

What does "if you do well" imply? And what does "will you not be accepted?" imply?

I have found this thread interesting and also been looking into it. When I read about Cain, this is what I find.

God spoke to Cain. He was trying to fellowship with him as He does with us. He was trying to steer Cain onto the "narrow road". Cain rejected God's ways and God's fellowship. His pride would not allow him to receive instruction from God, because it would mean that He would have to agree with God regarding his own works.

Cain would not be bound by God's instruction. He did not trust God's instruction, he trusted that his own (prideful) ways would please God BECAUSE he was deceived in his heart about his own "goodness".

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Pro 28:25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Do we trust His Word? Cain did not trust it.

Abel trusted God's Word was pure and right and made the acceptable sacrifice based on his trust in what God said to Him. It is only right to believe that if God spoke to Cain, He also spoke to Abel. One trusted His word and one did not.

That is the way I read and understand it.

Sarah

God exhorts Cain to repent. He says, "If you do well, will you not be accepted?" God wanted fellowship with Cain. What does "if you do well" imply? And what does "will you not be accepted?" imply?

Rookie,

It is obvious that God wanted fellowship with both Cain and Abel.

The reason Cain's offering was rejected is because it was not an offering of faith in the prescribed order of sacrifice that God had given. We cannot come to God by our works but only by faith. We must trust God to accept us only on the ground of the shed blood of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ). Abel understood by faith in what God had said as the only sacrifice to approach God in order to be accepted by Him.

Through faith we understand and if we don't trust God's way of righteousness then we will never be accepted until we do. Trust and obey because there is no other way to please God.

Blessings to you!

Quote: ""Abel understood by faith in what God had said as the only sacrifice to approach God in order to be accepted by Him.""

Where did God give this information to Able, please.

As I see it, Abels offering was a blood of a lamb sacrifice.
Cains was a grain offering. There is a difference to God.
From the first blood offering to the Cross, all sacrifice is a shadow of The only Blood offering that is permanent, the precious Blood of Christ. He is now our offering. Permanent when it comes to Justification by Faith, Gods Faith in us. Gal 2:20

In Christ: Phillip

Abel got this information to do what was right in God's eyes from someone, right?

Adam could have told him or God could have talked to him like He talked to Cain. Adam understood. Remember the skins that God gave Adam?

This divine truth ultimately came from God but how He chose to teach it to Abel we don't know exactly. One thing is for sure, Abel did not make it up.

Sarah

One thing is for sure, Abel did not make it up.

Amen sister Sarah! Praise God!

Quote: ""This divine truth ultimately came from God but how He chose to teach it to Abel we don't know exactly. One thing is for sure, Abel did not make it up.""

You don't think Abel being a sheep herder, and Cain being a farmer, had anything to do with it?

I think that is why God was trying to console Cain and give him the doing well as Able did with the blood of a lamb, that being the only sacrifice God could accept as God looked forward to the blood shed on the Cross by His beloved Son for justification and not just mercy by animal sacrifice. But Cain would not, just like Israel.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Cain did not have any excuse to take God at odds with Abels offering, Cain did and we know his heart by what he did to his brother, kill him, then lie, then plead for his life.

There is no comparison with the blood of animals sacrificed to receive mercy and the Blood of Christ to receive justification by faith. For God has made Christ our righteousness not our sacrifice and offerings but our faith which is come by the life we now live in the flesh which is by the Faith of the Son of God.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

There is no life in even Abels offering, only mercy. There is only new life in the new Creature by the offering of the Son of God on the Cross, He is our propituation our wisdom, righteousness, justification, sanctification and redemption. 1Cor 1:30

All Christ is to the believer an how it works in the believer was given to Paul by Jesus Christ Himself. All of the old testament cannot give life in Christ and exchange the Spirit of Christ for the spirit of satan our old father, cast satan out and give birth in Christ to the Believer, "Born Again". "Christ in you the hope of Glory".
Col 1:27 Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

He is our perfection and His work in us is what presents us to the Father, by His own blood, Perfect. Christ whom we all preach to present all that are His perfect to the Father.

The old testament could not do this, it could only bring us to Him, Jesus Christ our Redeemer.

In Christ: Phillip

There is no comparison with the blood of animals sacrificed to receive mercy and the Blood of Christ to receive justification by faith. For God has made Christ our righteousness not our sacrifice and offerings but our faith which is come by the life we now live in the flesh which is by the Faith of the Son of God.

I don't understand your reply to Sarah brother, the old testament sacrifices were a shadow of the better sacrifice of Christ, the lamb of God, that was to come in the new covenant. We know that the old covenant was not complete but that was what they were required to do at the time until the time of Christ.

Blessings to you!

It is Christ's blood that washed Abel, just as it is Christ's blood that washed me. Abel looked forward to the cross, I looked backward, neither of us saw the day, but the same Saviour washed us both in His own blood. Abel's sacrifice just like the sacrifice God made for his father Adam when he made skins for Adam and Eve, were types of the sacrifice of Christ showing what exactly it was that both were looking ahead to.

Praise God OldJoe! Oh, the power of His precious blood!

Then why is there no temple for animal sacrifice now?

Why don't we sacrifice animals to point to Christ now?

If the blood of animals would save us, why each year did the High Priest do it all over again.

Abel could not partake of the shed blood of Christ, it had not been shed yet. All in the old testament received mercy by the blood of animals, they did not receive life in Christ an new creature

.

Hebrews 9:7-14 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, ((((((((that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest,)))))))) while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service ((((perfect,)))) as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; (((((Neither by the blood of goats and calves,))))) (((((but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.))))) For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the (((purifying of the flesh:)))

Only Christ can make perfect. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

By His lobour in us.

!!!!How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?!!!!

The blood of animals cannot purge our "dead works", our conscience, only purged by the Blood of Christ, He the only one that can make us Holy, not the blood of animals to obtain mercy and time limited remission of sins of the flesh, but the precious blood of Christ.

We must admit that the blood of animal sacrifice cannot do what the Blood of Christ can do. Blood of animals for the remission and covering of sin of the flesh, which must be done over and over.

The Blood of Christ is the complete taking away the sins in the cup Jesus drank in the garden, which he took into His body, which contained all my sins and by Faith has set me free from any condemnation and has brought me to the Father as a Christ filled person a son of God.

Don't wory about those that are in Abrahams bosom, God will take care of them in Christ when He comes to restore Israel to its rightful ownerwhip of the covenants and lands God promised.

Our new covenant is in the Blood of the Cross being Jesus Christ a better way. We are seated in heavenly places and our inheritance is not on this earth but in the Father's house where Jesus is preparing us a place to live with the Father forever as sons of God, fellow heirs with Christ Jesus the only Begotten biological Son, we are sons' by that Seed birthed in our spirit by God the Father.

In Christ: Phillip

Then why is there no temple for animal sacrifice now? Why don't we sacrifice animals to point to Christ now? If the blood of animals would save us, why each year did the High Priest do it all over again. Abel could not partake of the shed blood of Christ, it had not been shed yet. All in the old testament received mercy by the blood of animals, they did not receive life in Christ an new creature

You answered your own questions with scripture and I don't disagree with them

I know the blood of Christ is so much greater than the blood of animals but the blood sacrifices were what God required of them to do until Jesus came and fulfilled all the types and shadows. Types and shadows are no more because they were incomplete and could not accomplish what only Christ could accomplish.

The blood of animals could not take away our sins but the blood of Christ washes away our sins.

Abel was in paradise just like Abraham and the other saints in the old testament times because Christ had not shed His blood as of yet as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins to be completely removed in order for us to receive the Spirit of Christ in regeneration. Regeneration is life in the Son of God.

Everyone can receive eternal life in the Son now because of His precious blood making atonement for our soul.

I believe that right after Jesus cried it is finished that he yielded up His spirit to his Father and was accepted as payment for the sins of all who believe in Him. He went down into the upper part of hell called paradise brought His life to Abel and all those old testament saints who were looking for Him as their Messiah.

It would be an abomination to do animal sacrifices today when He who is perfect has already come and fulfilled all the requirements of God for man's redemption.

The blood of animals could not take away our sins only the blood of Christ can do that.

I believe that Abel, Abraham, David and many others under the old testament were washed by the precious blood of Christ in paradise after His death on the cross. No one could have their sins completely atone for until Christ Jesus death on the cross but their hope was in the fulfillment that Christ would bring and that is why they went to paradise instead of the torment of hell.

They were saved by faith through the grace that God gave them in looking forward to the Christ making the perfect atonement to reconcile us to God. Their salvation was incomplete but it was all they had at the time.

They were counted saved just as much as we are who have also believed in Jesus Christ. Abraham's faith in God made him righteous in the sight of God because He believed in the promise of God. The same for Abel and the others. If it wasn't for the grace of God in them believing in the promise of God they would have never been saved in paradise.

Now paradise is no more as it was but is now in heaven because of the redemption of Christ we can all go into the most holy place into heaven and into the very presence of God.

Blessings to you!

I guess it would be the same reason you think Job wrote Job. There is a certain amount of surmising that can be done with the authorship of many of the books of the Bible.

To be more precise brother, I believe that Job spoke the words that are written in the book of Job.

If all your questions are an attempt to 'prove' obedience precludes trust, or that there is faith without trust, it will be best if you don't waste any more of either of our time. I am not moving and I suppose neither are you, so hold fast to your obedience without trust and see where it leads you.

Brother please be patient. When we get to the life of Abraham you might see things a little different...

And no fellowship occuurred because Cain did not want fellowship with God.

I believe that there is a more precise reason concerning Cain's response to God's calling...

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all.

Pro 2:1 My son, if you receive my words, And treasure my commands within you,

Pro 2:2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom, [And] apply your heart to understanding;

Pro 2:3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment, [And] lift up your voice for understanding,

Pro 2:4 If you seek her as silver, And search for her as [for] hidden treasures;

Pro 2:5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD, And find the knowledge of God.

I believe Cain is an example of those Jeremiah spoke of...

Jer 2:19 Your own wickedness will correct you, And your backslidings will rebuke you. Know therefore and see that [it is] an evil and bitter [thing] That you have forsaken the LORD your God, And the fear of Me [is] not in you," Says the Lord GOD of hosts.

It is Christ's blood that washed Abel, just as it is Christ's blood that washed me. Abel looked forward to the cross, I looked backward, neither of us saw the day, but the same Saviour washed us both in His own blood. Abel's sacrifice just like the sacrifice God made for his father Adam when he made skins for Adam and Eve, were types of the sacrifice of Christ showing what exactly it was that both were looking ahead to.

Amen brother....

Through faith we understand and if we don't trust God's way of righteousness then we will never be accepted until we do.

We will cover this in more depth when we inspect the life of Abraham....

May God be our blessing always...Jeff

Sarah wrote:

Adam could have told him or God could have talked to him like He talked to Cain. Adam understood. Remember the skins that God gave Adam?

God spoke to Abel because the Scriptures tell us that he was the first of God's prophets...

Luk 11:49 "Therefore the wisdom of God also said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they will kill and persecute,'

Luk 11:50 "that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,

Luk 11:51 "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

God Bless
your brother in Christ

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So as Paul wrote, from the beginning, men are without excuse because God has without exception made sure that each man has witnessed His eternal power. We are given the first example of this precept in the testimony of Cain and Abel.

Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.

Gen 4:4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

Gen 4:5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

We know that God clearly spoke to each man. Again we have this declared by Scripture. For Scripture tells us that Abel was the first prophet, and we are given an insight into the conversation that God had with Cain.

Think about what it means that God leave man without excuse concerning Cain and Abel.

I notice something in Genesis 4:2 (KJV) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Then look at Genesis 4:5 (KJV) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Then notice Genesis 4:8 (KJV) And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

It seems obvious to me that Cain was jealous of his brother being accepted of God and Him not being accepted because He didn’t bring the right offering.

This same jealousy is with us today. The fact was not that Abel was more accepted because he was a keeper of sheep and Cain was not because he was a tiller of the ground. Cain could have bought a lamb for an offering from his job as being a tiller of the ground. If Abel had of been a tiller of the ground I believe he would have still done what God required. Faith is no good unless it is based on the word of God.

The fact that people are jealous over the favor on God’s people that are really being blessed today is only because they are not enjoying the favor of God because of their disobedience and lack of faith in the promises of God.

Blessings to all!

The fact that people are jealous over the favor on God’s people that are really being blessed today is only because they are not enjoying the favor of God because of their disobedience and lack of faith in the promises of God.

This outcome is a result of this precept which God established in Genesis 3:15...

Gen 3:15\tAnd I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel."

Jhn 15:18\t"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before [it hated] you.

so that they are without excuse

Gen 4:7\t"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire [is] for you, but you should rule over it."

God encourages Cain to continue on the path of faith. "If you do well, will you not be accepted?"

We know that without God's grace, the power of the Holy Spirit one cannot please God. For Paul writes of this precept clearly.

Rom 7:18\tFor I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find.

Rom 8:7\tBecause the carnal mind [is] enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Rom 8:8\tSo then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So God is saying to Cain, listen to Me, and learn from Me, and know that I am God. And if you do this, will you not inherit everlasting righteousness.

Gen 4:7\t"If you do well, will you not be accepted?

So God is saying to Cain, listen to Me, and learn from Me, and know that I am God. And if you do this, will you not inherit everlasting righteousness.

We know from Scripture that Abel did please God and that God accepted him....

Hbr 11:4\tBy faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

So God required Cain to offer a sacrifice that could only be brought forth "by faith." We know that Abel "by faith" pleased God. Through Scripture we are not given much detail of the life of Abel except for this comment...

1Jo 3:1\tBehold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! [fn] Therefore the world does not know us, [fn] because it did not know Him.

1Jo 3:2\tBeloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1Jo 3:3\tAnd everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

1Jo 3:4\tWhoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

1Jo 3:5\tAnd you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1Jo 3:6\tWhoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

1Jo 3:7\tLittle children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1Jo 3:8\tHe who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9\tWhoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1Jo 3:10\tIn this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor [is] he who does not love his brother.

1Jo 3:11\tFor this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,

1Jo 3:12\tnot as Cain [who] was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

We know that Abel's life was righteous and was not swayed by the devil.

Hbr 11:4\tBy faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

Abel "obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts. We have this insight into Abel's life. The Scriptures say that God testified to Abel that he was accepted by God and that he was righteous. Abel's offering was not just a one day event. We are told that both Cain and Abel over the course of time produced an offering. Look closely to the following verse...

Gen 4:3\tAnd in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.

Gen 4:4\tAbel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

Do you see..."And in the process of time"?

We know that God spoke to both men. We know that God had instructed both men concerning what God required of each man. And we know that Abel's offering satisfied God's requirements of him. In the process of time Abel pleased God. We know that the work of the offering is not what pleased God. For Scripture says this of man's work...

Tts 3:4\tBut when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

Tts 3:5\tnot by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Tts 3:6\twhom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

Tts 3:7\tthat having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

In verse 5 we are clearly instructed that works of righteousness which are done" are not the source of our righteousness. The work itself does not allow us "to become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Scripture declares that the "power of God" is the source from which the righteous works are generated. Righteousness is worked in man "through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

This work of God in Abel's life brought forth Abel's offering through the process of time.

This work of God in Abel's life brought forth Abel's offering through the process of time.

All false religion begins with this question...

Jhn 6:28\tThen they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"

Cain's offering was founded on this foundation.

Abel's offering was based upon "the work of God." And true religion flows from this work...

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

We are given a glimpse of this work of God in the conversations that God had with Cain. In the book of Job we are given this insight into God's work..

Job 33:14\tFor God may speak in one way, or in another, [Yet man] does not perceive it.

Job 33:15\tIn a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, While slumbering on their beds,

Job 33:16\tThen He opens the ears of men, And seals their instruction.

Job 33:17\tIn order to turn man [from his] deed, And conceal pride from man,

Job 33:18\tHe keeps back his soul from the Pit, And his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:19\t"[Man] is also chastened with pain on his bed, And with strong [pain] in many of his bones,

Job 33:20\tSo that his life abhors bread, And his soul succulent food.

Job 33:21\tHis flesh wastes away from sight, And his bones stick out [which once] were not seen.

Job 33:22\tYes, his soul draws near the Pit, And his life to the executioners.

Job 33:23\t"If there is a messenger for him, A mediator, one among a thousand, To show man His uprightness,

Job 33:24\tThen He is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down to the Pit; I have found a ransom';

Job 33:25\tHis flesh shall be young like a child's, He shall return to the days of his youth.

Job 33:26\tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

God does all of this to call out to man in order that man should not perish and that he is without excuse. "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Job 33:29\t"Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,

Job 33:30\tTo bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent. God is long suffering with man. He is not willing that any perish. The Scriptures in Job testify to this fact.

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

Job 33:29\t"Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,

Job 33:30\tTo bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

In the testimony of Cain we see God's mercy and work continue even after the killing of Abel...

Gen 4:9\tThen the LORD said to Cain, "Where [is] Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know. [Am] I my brother's keeper?"

Gen 4:10\tAnd He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground.

Gen 4:11\t"So now you [are] cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.

Gen 4:12\t"When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth."

Gen 4:13\tAnd Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment [is] greater than I can bear!

Gen 4:14\t"Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen [that] anyone who finds me will kill me."

Gen 4:15\tAnd the LORD said to him, "Therefore, [fn] whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.

The Lord set a mark on Cain protecting him. For what purpose? Is it not that, even after all of Cain's rebellion, he might yet repent and believe?

Gen 4:14\t"Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen [that] anyone who finds me will kill me."

Cain's assessment of his future life was prophetic. Satan destroyed him.

Jud 1:11\tWoe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

1Jo 3:8\t"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning..."

1Jo 3:10\tIn this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor [is] he who does not love his brother.

Cain chose to become the first of many offspring of the devil.

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

The work of God is to get one to believe in Jesus Christ. We know that Abel through the work of God came to believe. But we are not given many details as to how God worked to convince Abel. So let us go to the testimony of Abraham's life. It is said in Scripture...

Rom 4:3\tFor what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." [fn]

Through the process of time Abraham believed God. How many years passed before Abraham believed?

There is no life in Cain or Abel, for that matter there is no life in any of the patriots, Abraham, David, Moses etc, they only point to the Christ that is come. There is only life in the Son. "for it is no longer I who live, but Chrsit who lives in me" Gal 2:20. "Christ in you the hope of Glory", Col 1:27. For it is God who works in us to do of His own will and pleasure. All we can do is believe and obey. Confess sin and He will cleanse us from all sin and unrighteousness by His Son that is birthed in us. 1 John 1:9

In Christ the only life: Phillip

Quote: """Cain chose to become the first of many offspring of the devil. """

That was Adams choice. Cain could do nothing without God, that is exactly what he did.

Able did what was pleasing to God by his blood sacrifice, pointing to Christ and the Cross.

In Christ: Phillip

Don't you think it is safe to say that Abel believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Yes. It is the only way, by grace through faith.

The Word preached to Abel was mixed with faith (trust, belief) and then it profited him as he then acted upon his belief.

Abel was the first of God's prophets according to Scripture. We know from Scripture that God spoke at great lengths with His prophets.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Yes. The gospel existed before the foundation of the world and all men are without excuse...

God Bless...

That was Adams choice. Cain could do nothing without God, that is exactly what he did.

According to the Scripture we have covered thus far, God also gave Cain a choice. Go back in this thread and see for yourself. I have not added to the Scriptures. It is up to you, whether you want to hear what the Scriptures posted thus far have said.

We currently are looking at what God does to enable men to believe in the Son. We know that God, the Father, extends grace to men. The purpose of the grace is to enable men to believe in the Son.

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Search the Scriptures see if what I say is true...

Confess sin and He will cleanse us from all sin and unrighteousness by His Son that is birthed in us. 1 John 1:9

In addition to 1 John 1:9, look to what John 1:9 says...

Jhn 1:9\tThat was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. [fn]

Thus...

Rom 1:20\tFor since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

So then God did not extend His Grace to Cain? But He did extend His Grace to Abel? How could either one believe in the Son, He was not born and no Cross yet, all they could have known was the emnity.

In Christ: Phillip

How could either one believe in the Son, He was not born and no Cross yet, all they could have known was the emnity.

I wrote this earlier in the thread. The purpose was to say in effect, just because someone knows more of the story, one is therefore more enlightened, is not valid. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit, can one really know God. Thus to say that Cain and Abel did not speak to the "Holy One" is to say that God was powerless until "Holy One" died on the cross for our sins.

"But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me..."

I am currently reading a book written by Ron Paul, Liberty Defined. Paul has chosen 50 different topics to write on which reveals his thoughts about liberty.

As I read of his thoughts and contemplate on his perception of American life, I am given insight into a man's life. I begin to see what he considers truth. I begin to see what motivates him. I begin to see what he hates. I begin to see how he has come to cherish liberty. I begin to understand him by what he has written.

As I reflect on Paul's book and its' content, I am given a more intimate insight into what makes this man tick. In the same way God has given us the Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures are given to us so that we might begin to understand God and His creation.

Yet as I reflect on Ron Paul's book, I really don't know him because of what is written. For me to know Ron Paul, is different from me understanding Ron Paul. To know Paul requires that I speak and listen to him in close proximity. To know him requires that we share our personal thoughts with one another. To know Ron Paul requires that I travel along with him time after time, sharing the good times and the hard times.

One must make this distinction between a book written by Ron Paul and the Holy Scriptures written by the Holy Spirit.
Reading a book written by a man such as Ron Paul, one would find that there is bound to be "inconsistencies" between what Paul has written and how one has come to know him through the process of time. However, one will never find "inconsistencies" between what God has written and how one has come "to know" God through the process of time.

So as there is only one way "to know" a man like Ron Paul, there is only one way "to know" God. God has given His Holy Spirit to men so that men might listen to Him. God has given His Holy Spirit to men so that men might walk in light of His revelation.

Jer 9:24\tBut let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I [am] the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the LORD.

God requires that man knows Him. How can man know Him unless the Holy Spirit speaks?

Jhn 6:29\tJesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent

Beginning in chapter 12 of Genesis, we are introduced to Abram and his family. This introduction begins with God speaking to Abram...

Gen 12:1\tNow the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12:2\tI will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.

Gen 12:3\tI will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

The Lord instructs Abram to begin a journey which requires that he leave his family and home. With this command, the Lord also promises to take care of Abram. This is the important part of this introduction to the relationship between God and Abram.

God gives instructions coupled with promise. What is God's purpose for revealing the components of the promise to Abram?

God gives instructions coupled with promise. What is God's purpose for revealing the components of the promise to Abram?

Paul writes this of the promise...

Eph 2:8\tFor by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

and...

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

The righteousness of God is revealed, this is the grace that God extends to men in the hope that they would believe in Him whom He sent. As we read the testimony of Scripture concerning God's work in Abraham one will see various examples of God's grace. And this grace flows to those who live by faith.

Eph 2:8\tFor by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

The grace of God is a gift to fallen man. God is not willing that any should perish. His work is to have us believe in Him whom He sent. So let's identify the grace which was given to Abraham.

Gen 12:1\tNow the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 12:2\tI will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
Gen 12:3\tI will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Gen 12:7\tThen the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

Gen 13:14\tAnd the LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are--northward, southward, eastward, and westward;
Gen 13:15\t"for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants [fn] forever.
Gen 13:16\t"And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, [then] your descendants also could be numbered.
Gen 13:17\t"Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you."

Gen 14:18\tThen Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he [was] the priest of God Most High.
Gen 14:19\tAnd he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;
Gen 14:20\tAnd blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all.

Gen 15:1\tAfter these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not be afraid, Abram. I [am] your shield, your exceedingly great reward."
Gen 15:2\tBut Abram said, "Lord GOD, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house [is] Eliezer of Damascus?"
Gen 15:3\tThen Abram said, "Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!"
Gen 15:4\tAnd behold, the word of the LORD [came] to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
Gen 15:5\tThen He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

God spoke through the power of the Holy Spirit five times in the process of time. And then the Scriptures say...

Gen 15:6\tAnd he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Gen 12:1\tNow the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 12:2\tI will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
Gen 12:3\tI will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

So God speaks and Abraham obeys His command.

Gen 12:4\tSo Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram [was] seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.

Through faith, Abraham received more grace...

Gen 12:7\tThen the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
Gen 12:8\tAnd he moved from there to the mountain east of Bethel, and he pitched his tent [with] Bethel on the west and Ai on the east; there he built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD.

The grace of God led Abraham to call upon the name of the Lord. The result of God speaking to him led him to build altars to the Lord. Revelation is grace.

Rom 1:17\tFor in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

As we now have this Grace, a dispensation, a completed way of God dealing with the sinner, from Paul, through and by Jesus Christ to us-ward.

By Grace and Faith not even of ourselves, but the Gift of God. AAmen

In Christ: Phillip

As we now have this Grace, a dispensation, a completed way of God dealing with the sinner, from Paul, through and by Jesus Christ to us-ward.

Why does Paul use Abraham as our prime example?

To prove the Seed and make the promise known, as of the Seed of David which is the Savior and the Seed of Abraham which is Christ.

John 7:42 Has not the scripture said that the Christ comes of the seed of David, and from the village of Bethlehem, where David was?

Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

By the righteousness of Faith of Jesus Christ.

Romans 4:13-15 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Through Paul to also prove the Seed is Christ, who is sent by the Father to be the Savior of His Body the Church.

2Co 11:22 Are they Hebrews? *I* also. Are they Israelites? *I* also. Are they seed of Abraham? *I* also.
Ga 3:16 But to Abraham were the promises addressed, and to his seed: he does not say, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed; which is Christ.

Matthew 1:1-16 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

As we the Born again are also found of the Seed, the Word of God Himself, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible Seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Seed, "a parentage seed". Strongs.

Word, Strong's Greek Dictionary
3056. logos
Search for G3056 in KJVSL
logoV logos log'-os
from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):--account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

He is now the Seed of Abraham and David and Paul, God's Seed, (Sperma) Christ Jesus in us, our Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

He is now the Seed of Abraham and David and Paul, God's Seed, (Sperma) Christ Jesus in us, our Hope of Glory.

Are you saying that Christ was the Seed of Abraham and David? In other words was it Christ who spoke to Abraham and David? Did they receive God's righteousness through faith?

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Scripture's illustration of God's grace is not limited to God speaking to man. In the following testimony of Abraham we are given this demonstration of grace.

God said to Abraham, "...and I will curse him who curses you;..." We see the results of this promise carried out in this section of Scripture...

Gen 12:10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to dwell there, for the famine [was] severe in the land.
Gen 12:11 And it came to pass, when he was close to entering Egypt, that he said to Sarai his wife, "Indeed I know that you [are] a woman of beautiful countenance.
Gen 12:12 "Therefore it will happen, when the Egyptians see you, that they will say, 'This [is] his wife'; and they will kill me, but they will let you live.
Gen 12:13 "Please say you [are] my sister, that it may be well with me for your sake, and that I [fn] may live because of you."
Gen 12:14 So it was, when Abram came into Egypt, that the Egyptians saw the woman, that she [was] very beautiful.
Gen 12:15 The princes of Pharaoh also saw her and commended her to Pharaoh. And the woman was taken to Pharaoh's house.
Gen 12:16 He treated Abram well for her sake. He had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female servants, female donkeys, and camels.
Gen 12:17 But the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram's wife.
Gen 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, "What [is] this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she [was] your wife?
Gen 12:19 "Why did you say, 'She [is] my sister'? I might have taken her as my wife. Now therefore, here is your wife; take [her] and go your way."
Gen 12:20 So Pharaoh commanded [his] men concerning him; and they sent him away, with his wife and all that he had.

Before traveling down to Egypt, Abraham did not realize what God's promise would mean to him. Afterward, God demonstrated His faithfulness to His word. We as Abraham saw that God cursed Pharaoh for Abraham's wellfare. So we see that God works in the situations that we find ourselves in to demonstrate His faithfulness to His word.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

This gift of God is given to men, even when they are yet sinners, so that they might believe in Him whom He sent.

Quote: """Are you saying that Christ was the Seed of Abraham and David? In other words was it Christ who spoke to Abraham and David? Did they receive God's righteousness through faith?"""

By perfect choosing of God, the physical line of Christ is through Abraham and David. Paul was as far as we know, not in that line. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. Pauls mystery, the spiritual seating of our spirit in Christ in the heavenlies is Gods intended purpose from before the foundation of the world. "Christ in you the hope of Glory", amen. Mary, Physical. Paul, Spiritual. Both declared to be the Seed of God, (Sperma).

All righteousness must come by Faith, even our salvation.
Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Which is preceded by: Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Different Seed, different blessings. Physical-Spiritual

but through the righteousness of faith.

Mat 22:41\tWhile the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

Mat 22:42\tsaying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?" They said to Him, "[The Son] of David."

Mat 22:43\tHe said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying:

Mat 22:44\t'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool" ' ? [fn]

Mat 22:45\t"If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his Son?"

Jesus declares two things in this section of Scripture. First, Jesus was David's Lord. Second, David who is physical like us, was in the Spirit.

How does this align with your understanding of "different Seed"?

Jesus is a son to David through his decendent Mary. Jesus is decended of God by His Seed in Her. One physical, one spiritual.

I am a decendend of God by the Christ birthed in me. Spiritual, which can now enter the kingdom of God. I am decended of my father and mother, flesh and blood. Physical. Which cannot enter the kingdom.

By revelation David, said these things, revealed by the Holy Spirit that it might show the coming of Jesus Christ to the world, the Jew first, then to the Gentiles by Pauls revelation in the Gospel of the Mystery, hidden from all generations, "Christ In you the Hope of Glory",

In Christ: Phillip

Jesus is a son to David through his decendent Mary. Jesus is decended of God by His Seed in Her. One physical, one spiritual.

But you have not yet answered the question...who was David's Lord? And by what means did David's Lord have a relationship with David?

Before traveling down to Egypt, Abraham did not realize what God's promise would mean to him. Afterward, God demonstrated His faithfulness to His word. We as Abraham saw that God cursed Pharaoh for Abraham's wellfare. So we see that God works in the situations that we find ourselves in to demonstrate His faithfulness to His word.

The book of Psalms are a collection of songs that the Lord has given to man. This particular song reflects the experience of Abraham as well as others who have called on the name of the Lord in every generation....

Psa 37:1\t[A Psalm] of David. Do not fret because of evildoers, Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.

Psa 37:2\tFor they shall soon be cut down like the grass, And wither as the green herb.

Psa 37:3\tTrust in the LORD, and do good; Dwell in the land, and feed on His faithfulness.

Psa 37:4\tDelight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

Psa 37:5\tCommit your way to the LORD, Trust also in Him, And He shall bring [it] to pass.

Psa 37:6\tHe shall bring forth your righteousness as the light, And your justice as the noonday.

Psa 37:7\tRest in the LORD, and wait patiently for Him; Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way, Because of the man who brings wicked schemes to pass.

Psa 37:8\tCease from anger, and forsake wrath; Do not fret--[it] only [causes] harm.

As we read of Abraham's experience with God we to should also learn to "feed on His faithfulness. And the word of God, the Holy Scriptures are given to us that we might begin to recognize God's hand in the every day experiences of those who believe.

Psa 37:3\tTrust in the LORD, and do good; Dwell in the land, and feed on His faithfulness.

Quote: """But you have not yet answered the question...who was David's Lord? And by what means did David's Lord have a relationship with David?"""

It was not Jesus in the flesh, or the resurrected Christ. It was not Jesus Christ born again in him. That leaves God speaking prophetically through the Holy Spirit.
"The lord said to my lord", which no one understood until Jesus explained it, Him being the Lord spoken to by the Lord.

In Christ: Phillip

It was not Jesus in the flesh, or the resurrected Christ. It was not Jesus Christ born again in him. That leaves God speaking prophetically through the Holy Spirit.
"The lord said to my lord", which no one understood until Jesus explained it, Him being the Lord spoken to by the Lord.

The Scriptures says that David did understand. I have heard many say the same as you. But what do the Scriptures say of David's understanding...

Act 2:30\t"Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, [fn]

Act 2:31\t"he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

God revealed this truth to David. And the Scriptures continue...

Act 2:34\t"For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

Act 2:35\tTill I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' [fn]

David calls Jesus Lord....

Luk 20:44\t"Therefore David calls Him 'Lord'; how is He then his Son?"

In your post, it seems you do not believe in a triune God? Is this true?

David knew as all Israel knew, there was a Messiah to come. They did not know He would be a Son of Gods own being by the Spirit.

They knew according to the flesh. Not as Paul knew the mystery, which we will all be judged by, what is that mystery? Christ in you the hope of Glory. David did not know it or anyone else until it was revealed to Paul.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

David could not have known what Paul knew about the Christ that was to be Savior of the world.

In Christ is the mystery and this final Gospel, Christ in you the Hope of Glory is what we will be judged by.

1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

This is the Grace given to Paul that He might give it to the Church, the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

David believed according to the flesh, Paul believed according to the Spirit. David did understand according to the flesh, David did not understand that the Messiah would be Gods own Son who would be the life of every believer, "The Mystery", Paul's Gospel, by which we will be judged in the secret places of our hearts.

Romans 2:14-17 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

As a Jew or Gentile, I don't want to be tested by the Law, Paul says it killed him.

There is only life in Christ, the mystery that was hidden from all eternity until it was revealed to Paul. David did not know the Christ would be his life, he did believe God and in the Messiah.

New covenant: Christ in you the Hope of glory.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

If there is anything man can do to make his chances with God good enough to obtain salvation and sonship, then Christ died in vain.

In Christ: Phillip

David knew as all Israel knew, there was a Messiah to come. They did not know He would be a Son of Gods own being by the Spirit.

They knew according to the flesh.

These are David's last words...

2Sa 23:2\t"The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, And His word [was] on my tongue.

2Sa 23:3\tThe God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: 'He who rules over men [must be] just, Ruling in the fear of God.

2Sa 23:4\tAnd [he shall be] like the light of the morning [when] the sun rises, A morning without clouds, [Like] the tender grass [springing] out of the earth, By clear shining after rain.'

2Sa 23:5\t"Although my house [is] not so with God, Yet He has made with me an everlasting covenant, Ordered in all [things] and secure. For [this is] all my salvation and all [my] desire; Will He not make [it] increase?

Who spoke to David and by what means did David know what to speak?

Quote: """
Who spoke to David and by what means did David know what to speak?"""

The Spirit of God spoke to David, not the Spirit of Christ as with Paul, or the revelation that Christ was in him.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Translated: meqisthmi methistemi meth-is'-tay-mee or methistano meth-is-tan'-o (1 Cor. 13:2)
from 3326 and 2476; to transfer, i.e. carry away, depose or (figuratively) exchange, seduce:--put out, remove, translate, turn away.

This is Pauls message of the mystery, "Christ in you the hope of Glory". This did not happen to David. Christ was not revealed in David, The Spirit of God gave him promise that Christ would be of his seed, as with Abraham, but not seeds, concretely Seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 1:13-16 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Before Paul was called he was probably the most educated man in the Bible, save Dr. Luke possibly.

Paul came to count all that he was as dung, for the surpassing knowledge of The Christ in him.

Philippians 3:2-12 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

This is not David's style, Paul knew He was apprehended of Christ Jesus, taken eagerly, Possessed, -apprehend, attained, come upon, comprehend and understood, found, obtained, perceived, (over-)taken on the Road, knocked off his horse, spoken to out of the Mouth of Jesus, blinded and shown what Paul would be to the body Christ, The Church. This did not happen to David, although he had the promise of God that this would happen in Christ, There is no life in what David did, there is life in what Paul preaches, as always in all his epistles, in Christ, Christ in you, spoken of by Paul in all his writings and revealed to all that hear by the Holy Spirit.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But Paul would go and we who are saved will hear; Acts 28:27-31 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Has that day come to those that believe, "Jesus Christ is the Son of God"? Resounding YES!!!

In Christ: Phillip

1 Peter 1:9-13 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

We must finish;

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

"The revelation of Christ" To whom was it revealed?

Galatians 1:15-24 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, ((((To reveal his Son in me,)))) that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.

The Mystery; "To reveal His Son in me"; The mystery which was not revealed before it was given to Paul by Christ Himself.

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Who is the hidden manna?

Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

It is no longer Paul who is life in him, but Pauls death was on the Cross with Christ, and His life in now by the Faith of the Son of God.

Galatians 2:14-21 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In Christ: Phillip

The Spirit of God spoke to David, not the Spirit of Christ as with Paul, or the revelation that Christ was in him.

2Sa 23:2\t"The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, And His word [was] on my tongue.

2Sa 23:3\tThe God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: 'He who rules over men [must be] just, Ruling in the fear of God.

Paul identifies who spoke to David in this section of Scripture....

1Cr 10:4\tand all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

1Cr 10:9\tnor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;

Do you believe Paul when he declared that Christ was the Rock of Israel and that the Spirit of the Lord was given to Israel first?

Quote: """Do you believe Paul when he declared that Christ was the Rock of Israel and that the Spirit of the Lord was given to Israel first?"""

No, not as the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, lest why would Jesus ask God the Father to send another Comforter? Jesus Christ is the Rock of our Salvation. That is why Moses was chastened when he struck the rock for the water of life, instead of speaking to the Rock. Not even Moses knew Christ as we know Him now. He is in us and not with us, as the Father also makes His abode and the Holy Spirit Another Comforter are in us forever. "New Creatures"

Israel has always had the Spirit of the Lord, but they denied Jesus Christ and The Spirit of the Lord who was ((with)) them, not in them as we now have The Holy Spirit (((in))) us forever.

In Christ: Phillip

Before traveling down to Egypt, Abraham did not realize what God's promise would mean to him. Afterward, God demonstrated His faithfulness to His word. We as Abraham saw that God cursed Pharaoh for Abraham's wellfare. So we see that God works in the situations that we find ourselves in to demonstrate His faithfulness to His word.

Again the book of Psalms are the fruit of what God has given to those who love Him. It is God who gives us a song. In Psalm 9 we are given this precept.

Psa 9:16\tThe LORD is known [by] the judgment He executes; The wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Meditation. [fn] Selah

Abraham experienced this grace from God...

Gen 12:17\tBut the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram's wife.

Gen 12:18\tAnd Pharaoh called Abram and said, "What [is] this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she [was] your wife?

Gen 12:19\t"Why did you say, 'She [is] my sister'? I might have taken her as my wife. Now therefore, here is your wife; take [her] and go your way."

Gen 12:20\tSo Pharaoh commanded [his] men concerning him; and they sent him away, with his wife and all that he had.

Gen 12:1\tNow the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12:2\tI will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.

Again looking to the promise of God to Abraham we find another lesson. In the promise, God says to Abraham, " ...I will bless you and make your name great..."

In the process of time we read this in Scripture....

Gen 12:10\tNow there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to dwell there, for the famine [was] severe in the land.

We know that God called Abraham to come to this land. Yet we find that there is a famine. We know that God controls the weather. So why would God do such a thing to Abraham?

Again it is the ways of God that demonstrate to man, His faithfulness. Abraham, at this point in his relationship with God, does not see how God is going to establish His promise to him. We know that Abraham is fearful for his life and that he in his own reasoning comes up with a scheme to save himself from men like Pharaoah. Yet God uses this scheme to bless Abraham...

Gen 12:13\t"Please say you [are] my sister, that it may be well with me for your sake, and that I [fn] may live because of you."

Abraham is worried about his life, and God uses this predicament to bless Abraham in ways he had not envisioned.

Gen 12:16\tHe treated Abram well for her sake. He had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female servants, female donkeys, and camels.

Gen 13:1\tThen Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that he had, and Lot with him, to the South. [fn]

Gen 13:2\tAbram [was] very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.

Again we see the grace of God, through the power of His Spirit, working to have Abraham believe in Him whom He sent.

Eph 2:8\tFor by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

The grace of God has been identified in this episode of Abraham's relationship with God. We are told that God speaks to Abraham. We are told that God blessed Abraham. We are told that God protected Abraham. So we see, as Paul has written, that the grace of God acted upon both Abraham and the circumstances he found himself in. We see that it was God who initiated His relationship with Abraham. Therefore it is a gift that was dispensed to Abraham.

With that said, let us talk about faith in this episode of Abraham's life.

Within this testimony we are told that Abraham was fearful. Within this testimony we are told that Abraham did not stay in the land that the Lord had promised him but instead traveled to Egypt because of famine. Some would say that Abraham lacked faith. I have heard preachers say this of Abraham. Yet this is not true.

What did Abraham do or not do that can be distinguished as faith in this testimony?

What did Abraham do or not do that can be distinguished as faith in this testimony?

Faced with famine and in his own understanding, believing that he could loose his wife and life, Abraham did not turn back.

Abraham did not turn back.

Pro 14:14\tThe backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, But a good man [will be satisfied] from above.

If Abraham had gone the way of Cain he would have been filled with his own ways. But Abraham did not turn back. And we begin to see that Abraham gains in knowledge and understanding. He begins to see the ways of God and the faithfulness of God. God's grace begins to satisfy Abraham.

Paul is always praying for this for the believer...

Col 1:9\tFor this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Col 1:10\tthat you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [Him], being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Col 1:11\tstrengthened with all might, according to His glorious power,

Knowledge and understanding according to His glorious power will enable man to please God. We see this precept taking root in Abraham.

Knowledge and understanding according to His glorious power will enable man to please God. We see this precept taking root in Abraham.

Pro 2:6\tFor the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;

Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;

Pro 2:8\tHe guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.

Pro 2:9\tThen you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity [and] every good path.

Pro 2:10\tWhen wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,

Pro 2:11\tDiscretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,

We are beginning to see the precepts contained in the verses above take effect in Abraham's life.

Pro 2:6\tFor the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;
Pro 2:8\tHe guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.
Pro 2:9\tThen you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity [and] every good path.
Pro 2:10\tWhen wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
Pro 2:11\tDiscretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,

Abraham had much to reflect on as he returned to the land promised him...

Gen 13:3\tAnd he went on his journey from the South as far as Bethel, to the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Ai,

Gen 13:4\tto the place of the altar which he had made there at first. And there Abram called on the name of the LORD.

The grace of God has directed his steps. God in His wisdom, had used Pharaoh to make sure that Abraham would not stay in Egypt. God had not only plagued Pharaoh, but also told him that it was the God of Abraham who was responsible for Pharaoh's troubles. Abraham received witness that God speaks through others to bring about wisdom and understanding.

As wisdom entered his heart, and the knowledge of what God had accomplished thus far, we find that God's grace was pleasant to his soul. Upon returning to the altar that he had made near Bethel, we are told...

"And there Abram called on the name of the LORD."

This is the result of what the Lord had done.

What is the land of promise for the born again, new creature in Christ? It is not any promised land of this earth.

What is the result of what God has done at the Cross? It is not any earthly attaining to salvation. It is the Seed, promised to Abraham, not seeds, but The Seed Jesus Christ. Which was a mystery to Abraham.

Colossians 1:17-29 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Our perfection is in Christ, not Abraham.

In Christ: Phillip

What is the land of promise for the born again, new creature in Christ? It is not any promised land of this earth.

What is the result of what God has done at the Cross? It is not any earthly attaining to salvation. It is the Seed, promised to Abraham, not seeds, but The Seed Jesus Christ. Which was a mystery to Abraham.

Brother, we have not yet even got to the point where Paul says that God declared Abraham righteous because he believed God. You continually jump to the end. I am still at the beginning of what Scripture teaches about the call of God on all men.

Do you at least acknowledge that God dispenses grace through the Holy Spirit In Genesis 12 through 15? Or do you believe God required the OT saints to please Him through their flesh....

What does Scripture say?

Are you offended by the Scriptures?

Gen 13:3\tAnd he went on his journey from the South as far as Bethel, to the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Ai,
Gen 13:4\tto the place of the altar which he had made there at first. And there Abram called on the name of the LORD.

Abraham called on the name of the Lord. This is the second time in the testimony of Abraham's life that we are told that he called on the name of the Lord. Remember this event...

Gen 12:7\tThen the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
Gen 12:8\tAnd he moved from there to the mountain east of Bethel, and he pitched his tent [with] Bethel on the west and Ai on the east; there he built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD.

Paul says this of this precept...

Rom 10:13\tFor "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [fn]

Rom 10:14\t"How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? ..."

So by this precept we know that Abraham believed. For we are told twice that Abraham called on the name of the Lord. Likewise, one cannot believe in the Lord, one cannot call on the name of the Lord unless the Lord has extended His grace to the individual. We see that the power of God enables man to believe. And Abraham is given to us as an example that we might begin to understand the ways of the Lord.

Then the Mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory is out and Putting of Abraham above all is in?

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

If this mystery was hid in God, until it was revealed to the saints Paul revealed it to by the Holy Spirit, how could Abraham know that by the Work of the Cross, Christ would be put in the believer and man's new life, Born Again to be able to even see the things of the KIngdom????

Our promise is heavenly places where we already dwell in Christ. God was not called Heavenly Father until Jesus began calling Him, Heavenly Father. This is our promise. I Go to prepare a place for you, if it were not so I would tell you. This is our promised land. The New Jerusalem our Fathers House where the sons' of God will be with Him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Heb 3:1 ¶ Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Where is our calling and our promised House?

It is not Abrahams our Moses etc. but Christ as a son over His own House, whose house we are.

In Christ, in the heavenlys already seated with Him, waiting for the glorious destruction of the flesh and blood and the new resurrection body of flesh and bone as the Body of Christ. We then will be heavenly complete in our New House prepared by our precious Lord and fellow heir of the Kingdom of God our Heavenly Fathers House where we will live forever.

In Christ: Phillip

"TO JESUS WAS THE PROMISE PROMISED."

And we know that He is the promise promised.

"Christ in you the hope of Glory."

This is our perfection. I strive according to His working in me, these are the only works that count, which He works in us.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Our promise is heavenly places where we already dwell in Christ. God was not called Heavenly Father until Jesus began calling Him, Heavenly Father. This is our promise. I Go to prepare a place for you, if it were not so I would tell you. This is our promised land. The New Jerusalem our Fathers House where the sons' of God will be with Him forever."

Paul never taught this....

1Cr 15:50\tNow this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

But like Abraham we who are in Christ should have this hope....

Hbr 11:16\tBut now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly [country]. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Quote:

"""Paul never taught this...."""

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus taught it and Paul confirmed it.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Wisdom of God:

Ephesians 3:11-21 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The Power that worketh in us, to fulfill the Word of God:

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Is Christ in you?

Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus taught it and Paul confirmed it."

Yes Jesus and Paul taught of the resurrection to come...

In terms of all the other verses that you have posted, unless you have the faith demonstrated in Abraham, you will not have Christ. The reason Paul wrote all of his letters was to correct those who did not live in the same way Abraham lived.

We know that after all of Paul's work in Ephesus, we are told this...

Rev 2:4\t"Nevertheless I have [this] against you, that you have left your first love.

Rev 2:5\t"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Rev 2:7\t"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." '

How could they have fallen? Was it Christ who was unfaithful?

Rom 10:13\tFor "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [fn]

In Genesis 12 and 13 we are told that Abraham called on the name of the Lord repeatedly. Abraham was unlike those who the Lord rejected in this section of Scripture...

Zep 1:6\tThose who have turned back from [following] the LORD, And have not sought the LORD, nor inquired of Him."

Zep 1:12\t"And it shall come to pass at that time [That] I will search Jerusalem with lamps, And punish the men Who are settled in complacency, [fn] Who say in their heart, 'The LORD will not do good, Nor will He do evil.'

Because of God's grace, Abraham began to "inquire" of the Lord repeatedly. The substance of faith that brings salvation is just the opposite of what the verse in Zep 1:6 testifies.

Many today teach that all one has to do is say one prayer and they are saved...but is this teaching according to Scripture or man?

This is the reason Paul wrote all his letters was to reveal the mystery Jesus Christ had given him.

Ephesians 3:8-9 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

What is the fellowship of the mystery? That believers have Christ born again in them, and they are new creatures.

Paul preached to glorify Jesus Christ not Abraham.

Abraham did not have the mystery, Moses did not have the mystery, David did not have the mystery. Paul was the first one to be given the mystery of "Christ in you the hope of Glory", that was his ministry.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The faith of Abraham, does not hold a candle to the Faith of Jesus Christ, which is the "but by the faith of Jesus Christ", "Justified by the faith of Christ", by which I now live in the flesh.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Let us not go back into bondage. Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Christ in you will set you free and if He set us free we are free indeed.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip...
How could they have fallen? Was it Christ who was unfaithful?

Galatians 4:4-9 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Albert Barns notes on the bible;

Bondage, they left their first love to go back into the weak and beggarly elements. To the rites and ceremonies of the Jewish law, imposing a servitude really not less severe than the customs of paganism. On the word elements, They are called "weak" because they had no power to save the soul; no power to justify the sinner before God. They are called "beggarly," (Greek, ptwca, poor,) because they could not impart spiritual riches. They really could confer few benefits on man. Or it may be, as Locke supposes, because the law kept men in the poor estate of pupils from the full enjoyment of the inheritance, Ga 4:1-3.

Whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage. As if you had a wish to be under servitude. The absurdity is as great as it would be for a man who had been freed from slavery to desire again his chains. They had been freed by the gospel from the galling servitude of heathenism, and they now again had sunk into the Jewish observances, as if they preferred slavery to freedom, and were willing to go from one form of it to another. The main idea is, that it is absurd for men who have been made free by the gospel to go back again into any kind of servitude or bondage. We may apply it to Christians now. Many sink into a kind of servitude not less galling than was that to sin before their conversion. Some become the slaves of mere ceremonies and forms in religion. Some are slaves to fashion, and the world yet rules them with the hand of a tyrant. They have escaped, it may be, from the galling chains of ambition, and degrading vice, and low sensuality; but they have become slaves to the love of money, or of dress, or of the fashions of the world, as if they loved slavery and chains; and they seem no more able to break loose than the slave is to break the bonds which bind him. And some are slaves to some expensive and foolish habit. Professed Christians, and Christian ministers too, become slaves to the disgusting and loathsome habit of using tobacco, bound by a servitude as galling and as firm as that which ever shackled the limbs of an African. I grieve to add, also, that many professed Christians are slaves to the habit of "sitting long at the wine," and indulging in it freely. Oh that such knew the liberty of Christian freedom, and would break away from all such shackles, and show how the gospel frees men from all foolish and absurd customs!
End.

They had left their first love. Repent! Return to Christ.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip,

You continually teach about a "faith of Christ" which is different than what the Scriptures teach. Your belief that there are two different types of faith, one demonstrated by Abraham and the other being "faith of Christ."

You say that Paul taught a gospel superior to anyone before him. Well if the Ephesians were ministered to by Paul, and their faith was superior to Abraham's why do we hear this testimony by Christ of the Ephesian church?

Rev 2:4\t"Nevertheless I have [this] against you, that you have left your first love.

Rev 2:5\t"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Rev 2:7\t"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." '

How could they have fallen? Was it Christ who was unfaithful?

Galatians 3:21-28 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, (((((that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.))))) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, (((((shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.))))) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Is Christ in us, have we put on Christ, Is Christ now our life? If Christ is in us and Paul says we are some 160 times plus, then the Faith that has come is the Faith of Jesus Christ unto salvation. We are justified by the Faith and righteousness of Jesus Christ that is in us, lest how could any believe a mystery never before revealed. The mystery is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", which the mystery is now revealed to His saints.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The Word of God, not my words.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote

"(((((that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.))))) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, (((((shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.)))))"

Abraham lived 430 before the law was given to Moses...so what you wrote does not apply.

According to your understanding of Scripture, how could Christ say this to the Ephesians...

Rev 2:4\t"Nevertheless I have [this] against you, that you have left your first love.

Rev 2:5\t"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Did the "faith of Christ" cause this to happen in the Ephesian church?

Quote;

Did the "faith of Christ" cause this to happen in the Ephesian church?

No, that is why we need to return to our first love, which is Christ, He has never left us, but we, week in the flesh need the faith of Christ to keep us in our walk. If we have our faith only we cannot. What faith of a mustard seed is Jesus saying if we had? It must be of God or nothing can be accomplished for what Jesus did on the Cross.

If we live by Christs wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, made unto us by the Father, why is it so hard to see it is the "Faith of Jesus Christ", that keeps us and we need to know this to believe we are truly saved by His works not ours or Abrahams.

In Christ: Phillip-

Phillip wrote

"No, that is why we need to return to our first love, which is Christ, He has never left us, but we, week in the flesh need the faith of Christ to keep us in our walk."

Paul teaches this to Timothy...

2Ti 2:10\tTherefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

2Ti 2:11\t[This is] a faithful saying: For if we died with [Him], We shall also live with [Him].

2Ti 2:12\tIf we endure, We shall also reign with [Him]. If we deny [Him], He also will deny us.

2Ti 2:13\tIf we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

Yes Christ is faithful.

Yet Christ has the right to deny us, if we deny Him. This is clearly testified of by Christ himself when He says this to the Ephesian church...

Rev 2:4\t"Nevertheless I have [this] against you, that you have left your first love.

Rev 2:5\t"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Rev 2:7\t"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." '

What did Christ teach us in the book of John as to how we are to love Him?

Quote:

"""Yet Christ has the right to deny us, if we deny Him. This is clearly testified of by Christ himself when He says this to the Ephesian church..."""

Jesus has lost none the Father gives Him, except the son of perdition Judas and that was to fulfill scripture.

If we deny Him we are none of His to start with.

I cannot deny my birth, I cannot deny my rebirth, God is my Father, Jesus is my Lord and Savior, the Seed of my rebirth, infact Jesus is my all in all. We are nothing without Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

"""What did Christ teach us in the book of John as to how we are to love Him?"""

As He has loved us.

Phillip wrote:

"If we deny Him we are none of His to start with.

I cannot deny my birth, I cannot deny my rebirth, God is my Father, Jesus is my Lord and Savior, the Seed of my rebirth, infact Jesus is my all in all. We are nothing without Him."

Christ specifically told the Ephesian church that they once loved Him, and that they must repent. So what does Christ require of them?

Jhn 14:15\t"If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Jhn 14:24\t"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me

For those who deny His voice, these He will deny before His Father. This precept Jesus demonstrated to the apostles all the days of His ministry. Jesus always did what the Father told Him. This "faith of Jesus" was demonstrated to us so that we too might learn to walk in the paths of righteousness.

Does our righteous take the righteousness of Abraham or the righteousness of Christ, or both?

If Abraham, then he does not need Jesus Christ and if we do the works of Abraham we will make it to heaven?

CHrist has been made our righteousness by the Father.
1Cor 1:30 All those who believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God will make it also?

In Christ by the Father, in whom Jesus has made me righteousness before Him who Gave His Only Begotten Son etc.

Phillip

Phillip asks...

Does our righteous take the righteousness of Abraham or the righteousness of Christ, or both?

The book of Job answers this question...

Job 33:24\tThen He is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down to the Pit; I have found a ransom';

Job 33:25\tHis flesh shall be young like a child's, He shall return to the days of his youth.

Job 33:26\tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

God restores to man His righteousness. Therefore it has always been Christ, because He is the word of God established before the foundation of the world to save those who love Him by obeying His word.

Jesus says this of His word...

Mar 4:13 And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

Mar 4:14 "The sower sows the word.

Mar 4:15 "And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

How does Satan do this?

"""How does Satan do this?"""

It is what satan has done from the beginning, the liar and deceiver.

That is why it takes the intervention of God in the life that is saved by the Cross and gives birth to a new creature. "Christ in you the hope of glory". Born again by the incorruptable Seed of the Father. It takes a Son birthed to be a Father, It takes a Father to be an only begotten Son. Then birth of that Son is all who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God which gives us birth again and now we are the son's of God also, fellow heirs with Christ.

""For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.""

In Christ: Phillip; and Christ in me and you.

Mar 4:13 And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

The parable of the sower is the key to understanding all parables. Solomon wrote this...

Pro 1:5\tA wise [man] will hear and increase learning, And a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,

Pro 1:6\tTo understand a proverb and an enigma, The words of the wise and their riddles.

Pro 1:7\tThe fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge, [But] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The difference between the wise man and a foolish man is that the fool will reject the word of God. Paul writes this of the word of God...

2Ti 3:16\tAll Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17\tthat the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Paul is always pointing us back to the Scriptures so that we might learn about God's righteousness and how His doctrine reproves, corrects and instructs those who are not fools.

Therefore Satan purposes to prevent us from growing in understanding and discretion.

What are some of the ways that Satan steals the word of God out of the hearts of those whom Jesus sowed?

Julius wrote:

"Satan is determined to do more than just "prevent us from growing in understanding and discretion".

Yes I agree that Satan uses many devices to destroy. Many of the points that you have listed are absolutely true. But I would make this distinction. The points that you have listed are the results we see. We hear testimony after testimony of how people have been devoured by Satan. These testimonies are the outworkings or evidence of men who have not continued in the word of God. Jesus explains this precept perfectly in the following Scripture....

Jhn 12:46\t"I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

Jhn 12:47\t"And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, [fn] I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

Jhn 12:48\t"He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Jesus declares that He came "to save the world." But judgement comes to those who have not believed "the word." Jesus declares that "the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."

Satan know this precept. So his main objective is to use many of the devices that you have listed Julius above. And all of Satan's attacks are to prevent the word of God from taking root in our lives. Jesus promises this to those who will believe His word...

Jhn 12:46\t"I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

"The one you love the most will have the most authority in your life. You cannot love two Masters."

Amen...

Only those who receive the love of the truth will overcome.

Jhn 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Likewise Jesus declared this...

Hbr 10:7 Then I said, 'Behold, I have come--In the volume of the book it is written of Me--To do Your will, O God.' " [fn]

Likewise Paul wrote this...

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

One of the ways Satan steals the word out of the heart of those whom the Lord has sowed, is when we hear Satan say...does God really mean "all Scripture" " is to be used "for instruction in righteousness."

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

I guess salvation is left out because that is only profitable to God and the believer being in Christ, by Christ being birthed in the believer by God our Father.

Curious

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I guess salvation is left out because that is only profitable to God and the believer being in Christ, by Christ being birthed in the believer by God our Father."

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Does this verse offend you?

No. I know a lot of people who use this verse for salvation and it is for after salvation is come. Even though the Gospel of salvation is presented by the foolishness of preaching. Not a deep question, just an observance. None of God's word offends me, Why would the observance illicit such a question?

Sorry I rub you the wrong way, what is the problem. What do you feel is wrong with me. I will repent.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"No. I know a lot of people who use this verse for salvation and it is for after salvation is come."

Do you believe this Scripture speaks of the same thing?

Job 33:26\tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

Looking forward, "My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased".

Phillip wrote:

"Looking forward, "My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"."

Job 19:25\tFor I know [that] my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26\tAnd after my skin is destroyed, this [I know], That in my flesh I shall see God,

Job 19:27\tWhom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. [How] my heart yearns within me!

Who is Job's "Redeemer"?

There is only One Redeemer.

Quote: ""Phillip wrote:

"Looking forward, "My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"."

Job 19:25 For I know [that] my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this [I know], That in my flesh I shall see God,

Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. [How] my heart yearns within me!

Who is Job's "Redeemer"?""

All these scriptures point to Christ whose flesh was marred more that any other, Christs heart yearned to have the fellowship that He had with the Father before He came to be the redeemer of the whole world, and all those that would be saved through His Cross, His flesh torn to shreds, nailed to a Cross, even death and put in the grave, but praise God resurrection and His asscention into heaven and His reture in the life of all who are born again, by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, "Christ in you the hope of glory."

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"All these scriptures point to Christ whose flesh was marred more that any other, Christs heart yearned to have the fellowship that He had with the Father before He came to be the redeemer of the whole world, and all those that would be saved through His Cross, His flesh torn to shreds, nailed to a Cross, even death and put in the grave, but praise God resurrection and His asscention into heaven and His reture in the life of all who are born again, by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, "Christ in you the hope of glory.""

Yes all of these do point to Christ...

Job 19:25 For I know [that] my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;
Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this [I know], That in my flesh I shall see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. [How] my heart yearns within me!

The above Scripture speaks of the resurrection to come, yet we hear this from Paul's story by Luke...

Act 23:8 For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection--and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.

And we hear this same testimony from Jesus...

Luk 20:34 Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.

Luk 20:35 "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

Luk 20:36 "nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Luk 20:37 "But even Moses showed in the [burning] bush [passage] that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' [fn]

Luk 20:38 "For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."

How did the Sadducees not accept the doctrine of the resurrection. The Scriptures in Job clearly teach this precept?

Quote:

""How did the Sadducees not accept the doctrine of the resurrection. The Scriptures in Job clearly teach this precept?""

Their eyes were blind, their ears could not hear and their hearts were stone. Acts 28:25-29

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Their eyes were blind, their ears could not hear and their hearts we stone. Acts 28:25-29"

Jesus says this of the Sadducees...

Mar 12:24\tJesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?

How did Satan steal the word from them?

Satan is the liar and deceiver from the beginning. If He stole the word, there is only one that can return it by the power of God with a Spirit of Christ exchange and a Holy Spirit truth put in their hearts, by He showing who the exchange now is that is born again in our spirit. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

" If He stole the word, there is only one that can return it by the power of God with a Spirit of Christ exchange and a Holy Spirit truth put in their hearts,"

But the Sadducees didn't know the word of God...they had books like Job to learn from, yet they rejected what the word of God was saying...

I have seen you in these last 5 or 6 post deny what the word of God actually says. Do you choose to be blind like them?

You see only those who receive the love of the truth will escape the deception...

Psa 145:18\tThe LORD [is] near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth

Psa 119:160\tThe entirety of Your word [is] truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments [endures] forever.

Luk 20:21\tThen they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth

Jhn 4:24\t"God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Jhn 8:32\t"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Jesus does not show personal favoritism, but teaches the way of God in truth. And one who receive the love of the truth, this love for the truth will free us from the corruption of this world. These will worship Him in spirit and truth.

Mat 13:19\t"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand [it], then the wicked [one] comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

In the above verse it states that Satan steals what was sown in the heart of the individual who does not understand.

Luk 4:4\tBut Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.' "

The Scripture above states that man shall feed upon "every word of God."

Do the doctrines we hold to profess this?

The Word of God is born again in us by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, which is the Spirit of Christ that is now our spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1 Peter 1:23

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wro9te...

"The Word of God is born again in us by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, which is the Spirit of Christ that is now our spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1 Peter 1:23"

Let us consider this section of Scripture together...

1Pe 1:22\tSince you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit [fn] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

1Pe 1:23\thaving been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, [fn]

1Pe 1:24\tbecause "All flesh [is] as grass, And all the glory of man [fn] as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away,

1Pe 1:25\tBut the word of the LORD endures forever." [fn] Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

The first thought is centered on the beginning Scripture...

1Pe 1:22\tSince you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit....

Is "the Spirit" ours or God's?

"""Is "the Spirit" ours or God's?"""

Gods. Leading to verse 23 being born again.

Why the question?

Phillip wrote:

"Gods. Leading to verse 23 being born again.

Why the question?"

Now again refering to the same Scripture...

"1Pe 1:22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit..."

What does "the truth" refer to in 1 Peter 1:22-25?

"""What does "the truth" refer to in 1 Peter 1:22-25?"""

The truth of the Gospel of Christ born again in the believer revealed by the Holy Spirit, this is what we must obey.

Jesus said to Nicodemus, not, you can be born again when you straighten out your act and do what is right, Jesus said you Must be born again to see the things of the Kingdom of God. 1 Peter 1:22-23 are the things of the kingdom.

In Christ: Pnillip

Phillip wrote:

"The truth of the Gospel of Christ born again in the believer revealed by the Holy Spirit, this is what we must obey."

How do we go about obeying according to what you wrote?

By renewing our mind to the mind of Christ by the revelation of the truth from the Holy Spirit, by the Word of God.

Phillip wrote:

"By renewing our mind to the mind of Christ by the revelation of the truth from the Holy Spirit, by the Word of God."

to be more precise and concise....

Jhn 17:17\t"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth

So God's word is the truth.

Again we have the beginning of this verse...

1Pe 1:22\tSince you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit [fn]

Those who obey the "word of God" will through the power of the Holy Spirit experience sanctification.

Do you believe that the following statement is an accurate presentation of the above Scripture?

Quote:

"""1Pe 1:22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit [fn]

Those who obey the "word of God" will through the power of the Holy Spirit experience sanctification."""

Yes, by; 1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos)of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word (rhema)of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word (rhema)which by the gospel is preached unto you.

In Christ the Word, (Logos) same as in John 1 The Word was God: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Yes, by; 1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos)of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word (rhema)of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word (rhema)which by the gospel is preached unto you."

Peter sights this OT Scripture as comentary on verse 23...

Isa 40:5 The glory of the LORD shall be revealed, And all flesh shall see [it] together; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

Isa 40:6 The voice said, "Cry out!" And he [fn] said, "What shall I cry?" "All flesh [is] grass, And all its loveliness [is] like the flower of the field.

Isa 40:7 The grass withers, the flower fades, Because the breath of the LORD blows upon it; Surely the people [are] grass.

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

In your post you pointed out in verses 24 and 25 that the greek word for "word" is rhema.

How does the use of "rhema" relate to Peter's use of OT Scripture to comment on NT Scripture?

Quote:

"""How does the use of "rhema" relate to Peter's use of OT Scripture to comment on NT Scripture?"""

:23 being born again by (LOGOS) The living and eternal Person of Christ.

:24 Rhema, is the written word being put in our hearts by the Holy Spirit to be conformed to the image of Christ, by Pauls Gospel, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

":24 Rhema, is the written word being put in our hearts by the Holy Spirit to be conformed to the image of Christ, by Pauls Gospel, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory"."

In this section of Scripture, how does Peter know to translate "word" found in the OT Scripture...

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

into the word "rhema" in the 1 Peter 1:25?

Quote:

"""In this section of Scripture, how does Peter know to translate "word" found in the OT Scripture...

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

into the word "rhema" in the 1 Peter 1:25?"""

I don't know, I'll have ask Peter when I see him. I would say in speculation, by the Holy Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I don't know, I'll have ask Peter when I see him. I would say in speculation, by the Holy Spirit."

Wouldn't this be an example of "rhema"?

Isa 40:6 The voice said, "Cry out!" And he [fn] said, "What shall I cry?" "All flesh [is] grass, And all its loveliness [is] like the flower of the field.

Isa 40:7 The grass withers, the flower fades, Because the breath of the LORD blows upon it; Surely the people [are] grass.

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

In verse 8 we are told that "the word of our God stands forever." Peter points out to us that "the word" is translated "rhema." We see that the "rhema" is responsible for this in Isaiah 40...

Isa 40:10\tBehold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong [hand], And His arm shall rule for Him; Behold, His reward [is] with Him, And His work before Him.

Who are those who stand before Him...(Behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him)?

Isa 40:31\tBut those who wait on the LORD Shall renew [their] strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

This same precept is also seen in Job 14, again from Peter's highlight of OT Scripture....

Job 14:1\t"Man [who is] born of woman Is of few days and full of trouble.

Job 14:2\tHe comes forth like a flower and fades away; He flees like a shadow and does not continue.

And again....

Job 14:14\tIf a man dies, shall he live [again]? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes.

Job 14:15\tYou shall call, and I will answer You; You shall desire the work of Your hands.

"You shall desire the work of Your hands." Though all men are as grass and fade away, though all men are sown in corruption, there will be those who stand before the Lord, those who are the work of His hand, those who by the "rhema" of God will be "His reward."

This is the written word of God; Isa 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Rhema in Greek and Daw/Baw in Hebrew

It stands but is not life.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Logos is the living Word we are born again with, Jesus Himself, Gods incorruptable Seed.

We must have Logos (The Word, Logos; John 1)in us to be able to receive The Holy Spirit who is the teacher of the word (rhema)

Living Word, Logos

Standing forever word, rhema

In Christ: Phillip

I waited two days for you to respond...

You wrote...

Phillip wrote:

"I don't know, I'll have ask Peter when I see him. I would say in speculation, by the Holy Spirit."

Wouldn't this be an example of "rhema"?

Quote:

""""Wouldn't this be an example of "rhema"?""""

The rhema is what the Holy Spirit uses to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ.

The Logos is life In Christ, "new creatures never before seen, Paul was the first it was revealed to by Jesus Himself for three years in Arabia in the Mount. Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Which God gave to Paul for the Church His Body to all those who believe and called.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the (((((dispensation of the grace of God))))) which is given me to ((((you-ward:))))

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, ((((to fulfil the word of God;))))

This is what Paul says is the born again expierence, which he uses the word "Mystery".

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: ((((nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me)))): and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

This is the Mystery of the Logos Himself the living Word birthed in the believer and we are now new creatures in Christ and legitimate children of God and called sons.

We learn this by revelation from Christ and the Holy Spirit using the written word, (rhema) to renew our old man minds to the new man mind in Christ Jesus, "we have the Mind of Christ".

Yes; In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"The rhema is what the Holy Spirit uses to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ."

Yes. I agree whole heartily with your statement.

Then you wrote:

"Paul was the first it was revealed to by Jesus Himself for three years in Arabia in the Mount."

1Pe 1:24\tbecause "All flesh [is] as grass, And all the glory of man [fn] as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away,

1Pe 1:25\tBut the word of the LORD endures forever." [fn] Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

How does what Peter wrote of the "rhema" of God impact what you believe?

Without Christ I was, am, will be nothing.

He has set me free from this body of sin.

I can do all things in Christ Jesus.

His life in me is the only life He gave believers at the Cross.

A blade of Grass, I was nothing.

Christ in me and His Word + The Holy Spirit given me also forever, makes me a son of God by the Father's incorruptable Seed, born again in me.

I could go on forever and never give all the doctrine and privledges in obedience I have In Christ. I love Him because He first loved me. His love in me is the only accepable love the Father will receive.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I could go on forever and never give all the doctrine and privledges in obedience I have In Christ. I love Him because He first loved me. His love in me is the only accepable love the Father will receive."

Jesus says this of those who do love Him...

Jhn 14:21\t"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Likewise John writes this of those who love Him...

1Jo 2:14\tI have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.

How does one overcome the wicked one?

Quote: """How does one overcome the wicked one?"""

By The Christ in me that overcame the wicked one on the Cross. I walk every day in Him, He leads me and by faith we are overcomers. I believe satan was defeated at the Cross and the only way he can get at me is through Gods permission, as Job, then I must be in faith and know all that God does in my life is for my good and His glory.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"By The Christ in me that overcame the wicked one on the Cross. I walk every day in Him, He leads me and by faith we are overcomers. I believe satan was defeated at the Cross and the only way he can get at me is through Gods permission, as Job, then I must be in faith and know all that God does in my life is for my good and His glory."

Paul exhorts the believers who are in Christ of this...

Eph 4:13\ttill we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Eph 4:14\tthat we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

What is missing in a believer whom Paul identifies as "children"?

What is missing in a believer whom Paul identifies as "children"?

It seems like Paul explains it properly. "to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;"

What do you think is missing?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"It seems like Paul explains it properly. "to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;""

Have those who Paul calls "children" come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Paul in another place says this of those who have received all things in Christ....

1Cr 3:1\tAnd I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual [people] but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

1Cr 3:2\tI fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able [to receive it], and even now you are still not able;

What is missing?

Phillip wrote:

"By The Christ in me that overcame the wicked one on the Cross. I walk every day in Him, He leads me and by faith we are overcomers. I believe satan was defeated at the Cross and the only way he can get at me is through Gods permission, as Job, then I must be in faith and know all that God does in my life is for my good and His glory."

Paul declares this to the Corinthian church...

1Cr 1:4\tI thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,

1Cr 1:5\tthat you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,

1Cr 1:6\teven as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,

1Cr 1:7\tso that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Cr 1:8\twho will also confirm you to the end, [that you may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 1:9\tGod [is] faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yet Paul also declares this to the Corinthian church...

1Cr 3:1\tAnd I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual [people] but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

1Cr 3:2\tI fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able [to receive it], and even now you are still not able;

Then Paul declares this to the Corinthian church....

2Cr 6:12\tYou are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your [own] affections.

2Cr 6:13\tNow in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.

2Cr 6:14\tDo not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

2Cr 6:15\tAnd what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?

2Cr 6:16\tAnd what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you [fn] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among [them]. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." [fn]

2Cr 6:17\tTherefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." [fn]

2Cr 6:18\t"I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." [fn]

How does your statement above align with the Scripture?

Hebrews 5:11-14 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

This is going on from milk to strong meat.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

What does this Romans 16:25-27 mean to you?

Romans 16:25-27 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

Written to who? From where?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip asks:

"What does this Romans 16:25-27 mean to you?"

" But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

"The scriptures of the prophets," reveal the everlasting commandments of God so that all may know Him whom He sent. And for what reason? So that man might learn obedience through the "rhema" of God.

Phillip quoted...

"Hebrews 5:11-14 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God;"

In this section of Scripture we find that those who can not be fed meat are those whom the writer of Hebrews identifies..."seeing ye are dull of hearing". These who are dull of hearing are not yet able....

" But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Why is it so important for the believer "to discern both good and evil"?

I can see the work of Jesus Christ in me, I can see the work of Satan from about me.

This discernment is not what makes me pleasing to God, Nothing I do makes me pleasing to God, only the work of Jesus Christ in me is pleasing to God. This discernment is for the upbuilding of the Body of Christ His Church.

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Jesus Christ in me is my only perfection, that is pleasing to God our Father.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"This discernment is not what makes me pleasing to God, Nothing I do makes me pleasing to God, only the work of Jesus Christ in me is pleasing to God."

Col 1:9\tFor this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Col 1:10\tthat you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [Him], being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Why does Paul pray continually for the believer to grow...

"with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;..."

so that the believer can...

"walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [Him], being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;"

Does your understanding of doctrine align with Paul's teaching?

Quote:

"""Why does Paul pray continually for the believer to grow...

"with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;..."

so that the believer can...

"walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [Him], being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;"

Does your understanding of doctrine align with Paul's teaching?"""

Paul is not praying to the believer, but to God for the believer. It is God's answering of Paul's prayer that Makes the Believer Perfect in Christ Jesus, the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. Paul's teaching is direct from Jesus Christ giving Paul for the first time in scripture, the knowledge of, "Mystery", how the body, soul and spirit work in the Plan of God for salvation. If we don't hear Paul's Gospel we won't understand who we are in Christ, "sons of God".

Colossians 1:11-13 Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The finish of the work of God in the believer; Perfection.

Colossians 1:23-29 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Don't go back into condemnation from bondage.

Ga 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Ga 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Even so Christ has separated the soul, from the spirit, the Holy Spirit keeping the body quickened to be able to be the temple which contains and gives rebirth to the Spirit of Christ, which is, "Christ in you the hope of Glory" and The Holy Spirit giving this truth to the soul, bring us into the glorious position of the sons of God our Father through the Incorruptable Seed born again in us, which is Jesus Christ. Jesus saying it to the highest Jew in the land, Nicodemus, "you must be born again" even before it was possible, that being the Cross, and resurrection and Assention and they Christ coming back being born again in the believers the Father gives Him.

Hebrews 4:9-13 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

That is rest is not in my works but the perfect completed work of Christ on the Cross.

In Him that is now my spirit, Christ in you: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Paul is not praying to the believer, but to God for the believer."

Scripture teaches that Paul is praying to God for the believer. Why would he feel the need to do so if he believed what you believe?

What do you think I believe?

To reveal the answer to the mystery given Paul by Jesus Christ, that He Jesus Christ is in the believers Spirit making him a new creature.

So all who Paul is praying for knows; "Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote...

"This discernment is not what makes me pleasing to God, Nothing I do makes me pleasing to God, only the work of Jesus Christ in me is pleasing to God."

"...do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Col 1:10\tthat you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [Him], being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Paul prays that God fills the believer with knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding so that the believer can "walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him."

How does Christ teach you so that you can please Him?

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

My Teacher; John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

How he manifests Himself to us; John 14:23-26 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

His labor in me makes me pleasing to God our Father;

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

I am pleasing to God the Father because He is pleasing to the Father; Mt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mr 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mr 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Lu 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Lu 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Lu 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

He, Jesus Christ is my all and in all I do. The Holy Spirit teaches us this.

2 Peter 1:18-21 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

As it is today, the Parakleet Teacher Holy Spirit who reveals all things that Jesus said and even things we don't understand.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"His labor in me makes me pleasing to God our Father;"

and

"I am pleasing to God the Father because He is pleasing to the Father; Mt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

This view does not seem to be in line with Scripture, for we have this testimony of Christ to the Ephesian church...

Rev 2:4 "Nevertheless I have [this] against you, that you have left your first love.

Rev 2:5 "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

And Paul's testimony to these churches...

2Cr 6:11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open.
2Cr 6:12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your [own] affections.
2Cr 6:13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.
2Cr 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
2Cr 6:15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
2Cr 6:16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you [fn] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among [them]. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." [fn]
2Cr 6:17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." [fn]

and...

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, [fn] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you [fn] as crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

These churches received the same gospel, yet they have strayed, is it Christ's fault that they are not pleasing to God the Father?

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, [fn] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you [fn] as crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

These foolish Galatians were listening to the circumcission and being tempted by the Law to go back into bondage.

Paul is admonishing them that they might not be carried away by the temptation of the flesh to make works their salvation and not Grace.

Of course this is not the fault of Jesus Christ, that is why Paul is admonishing these foolish Galatians, they must return to their first love, which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip,

Of all your posts that I have read, the picture that I get of you (and please don't take this the wrong way), is that Jesus Christ inhabits you by His Spirit and does everything for you and there is really nothing for you to do.

Is this correct?

You say, "I am pleasing to God the Father because He is pleasing to the Father;"

Do you not think that God the Father still sees you and your individuality and whether you are loving His Son by your various actions?

Do you see that you have a part to play? If you do, how would you articulate what your responsibility is, in this daily walk with Jesus?

Maybe this could be an opportunity to clarify yourself, because it seems to me, at least, that Jesus just occupies you like a ghost and then you are not responsible for anything and Jesus just does it all for you.

Let me know where I am offbase and interpreting your posts, wrongly.

Mike

Colossians 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is my labor, striving according to His working, which workfare in me mightily. If my labor is my own works to make me pleasing to God, I am lost. If my labor is according to His works in me, to God that is the perfection God sees. "Every man perfect in Christ". Without Christ I am nothing, with Christ in me I am a son of God our Father.

Milky wrote, Quote:

"""Phillip,

Of all your posts that I have read, the picture that I get of you (and please don't take this the wrong way), is that Jesus Christ inhabits you by His Spirit and does everything for you and there is really nothing for you to do."""

What a complement, Thank you.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Ro 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
2Co 4:15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

May my works never be of myself, but always in all things may the works I do be through the works He does in me. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me". The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God."

What works would you have me do to be pleasing to the Father?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"These foolish Galatians were listening to the circumcission and being tempted by the Law to go back into bondage."

According to Paul they had the mind of Christ, so why did they stumble?

They were subtly deceived in believing another gospel when they thought it was the Gospel.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

They received a spirit of legalism, rejoicing in it and thinking it was the same thing as the spirit of liberty.

In Christ,
Sarah

Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The Law is the hardest thing our minds must get around, we have lived all our lives under Law, and we don't know how to accept freedom and Grace, That is what is missing in the Galatians, even when they have the mind of Christ, they don't know how to be free.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Not only to the things of this world but to the bondage of the Law, which Christ has set us free by His finished work on the Cross, no more bondage.

We must learn that we have the Mind of Christ and by faith act upon our renewed minds to the Mind of Christ.

Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Ro 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Is He revealed to you by the revealer?

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

In Christ: Phillip

"by sarahsdream on 2011/9/6 17:22:50

They were subtly deceived in believing another gospel when they thought it was the Gospel.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. "

In the Scripture above, who was responsible for deceiving those who had received the Holy Spirit?

Phillip wrote...

"Not only to the things of this world but to the bondage of the Law, which Christ has set us free by His finished work on the Cross, no more bondage.

We must learn that we have the Mind of Christ and by faith act upon our renewed minds to the Mind of Christ"

With all the Scripture and what you said above...what is the bottom line problem that led to the Galatian church problem?

2 Corinthians 4:3-7 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 2:14-17 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Bottome line; Lack of knowledge of the Truth and unbelief in those that are Lost, Let us pray the God and Father of the only begotten Son would reveal the only life we can receive for salvation, would reveal the glorious Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in us, that we might live in and through Him, which Paul preaches always in all His epistles, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". 146 times, "IN CHRIST".

There is only one hope of Glory. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ, not lost: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Bottome line; Lack of knowledge of the Truth and unbelief in those that are Lost, Let us pray the God and Father of the only begotten Son would reveal the only life we can receive for salvation, would reveal the glorious Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in us, that we might live in and through Him, which Paul preaches always in all His epistles, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". 146 times, "IN CHRIST"."

Not quite the bottom line, concerning the Galatian church...

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

The Galatians chose to walk according to the flesh. They rejected God's rhema.

Gal 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Do you believe Paul's analysis of the Galatian church?

Quote:

"""Do you believe Paul's analysis of the Galatian church?"""

Yes.

Keep the Law die in the Law.

Continue in sin and die in sin.

Live by the Spirit of Christ in you and have eternal Life.

Galatians 6:11-18 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand. As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. Unto the Galatians written from Rome.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

In Christ a new creature walking in peace and mercy: Phillip

The End.

Phillip wrote:

"Yes.

Keep the Law die in the Law.

Continue in sin and die in sin.

Live by the Spirit of Christ in you and have eternal Life."

Yes, this is according to Scripture.

Gal 3:2\tThis only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3\tAre you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Now Paul teaches above that the Galatians received the Spirit. Paul teaches us that we who received the Spirit like the Galatians must make a choice whether to continue in following the flesh or the Spirit of God.

Do you agree with this?

I received the Spirit by the hearing of faith, not by works of the Law and I will believe nothing else.

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

By the hearing of faith.

Galatians 3:21-22 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

In Christ: Phillip

Learn hence, that although the gifts and graces of God's Holy Spirit are conveyed to the hearers of the gospel by the ministry of the Word Himself, which is CHrist in you the Hope of Glory, yet God is the author, the minister, and dispenser of them, and the gospel only the instrument and mean of their conveyance: He ministereth to you the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:18-24 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

The Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, the Logos of God is our glory, faith and hope also, by Him the incorruptable Seed of the Father making us sons of God also.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I received the Spirit by the hearing of faith, not by works of the Law and I will believe nothing else."

You side stepped the question about what Paul wrote to the Galatians...

I wrote.....

Now Paul teaches above that the Galatians received the Spirit. Paul teaches us that we who received the Spirit like the Galatians must make a choice whether to continue in following the flesh or the Spirit of God.

Do you agree with this?

This Paul wrote to the Galatians;

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. From henceforth let no man trouble me:

I will not glory in a choice, but knowing that God does not make mistakes, my glory is in knowing who I am in Christ, walking in the Spirit. Paul is teaching the Galatians that they have received the Spirit of Christ and not to let anyone deceive you into believing they must do works also, circumcission and all that pertains to make me pleasing to God by what I do, instead of What Christ did on the Cross.

I am pleasing to God for one reason and one reason only;
Christ in me.

IN Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I will not glory in a choice, but knowing that God does not make mistakes, my glory is in knowing who I am in Christ, walking in the Spirit."

The example given to us of the Galatian church focuses on the choice to serve man or to serve God. In another example, given to us by Paul, we are given again an insight into another way that believers stumble when they make the wrong choice.

2Cr 6:11\tO Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open.
2Cr 6:12\tYou are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your [own] affections.
2Cr 6:13\tNow in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.
2Cr 6:14\tDo not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
2Cr 6:15\tAnd what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
2Cr 6:16\tAnd what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you [fn] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among [them]. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." [fn]
2Cr 6:17\tTherefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." [fn]
2Cr 6:18\t"I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." [fn]

What is Paul teaching us about the choices the Corinthian church made?

"What is Paul teaching us about the choices the Corinthian church made?"

That's a good question. Some people will take the content of this sentence :

1 Cor 6:12  All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

But don't mix it with faith of the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and end up going to prostitutes, thinking they are free to make that choice. To what Paul says:

1 Cor 6:15  Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

What does 'God forbid' mean? Someone said, it means it's against God's will. Someone else said it means "How could you probably be so reprobate to think so?"

It's not in line with the righteousness of Jesus Christ, but we still have to believe him to make that choice, or our disobedience would be synonymous to unbelief.

Paul is teaching them who they are in Christ;

2 Corinthians 6:15-18 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

God did not save me to make me a better person, if He did He sure would have done a better job. God saved me by putting another Person in me. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus, I am not a better person by what I do or don't do, for I can never measure up to the Holiness of God. That is why God has put a new life in me, Jesus Christ the incorruptable Seed of the Father which was His plan before the foundation of ther world. Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This does not make me a new person, this makes me a completely different person, The Godly Seed of the only begotten Son birthed in me a new creature. Not the old man of flesh but the new man in the Spirit of Christ who now is my life. Paul speaks of this many times. Gal 2:20 Col 1:27 ETC, AND many other places Paul speaks of us in Christ.

This new creature in Christ by His Spirit and life now can be pleasing to God by the new Law of Life in Christ Jesus, The Law of Love and the Law of Liberty.

The moral law and the Mosiac Law are gone. I now live by the Faith of the Son of God who lives in me and gave His life for me that I might be a new creature in Christ a whole different person, the old man is dead, the new man in Christ is life and love in Christ for all eternity..

In Christ: Phillip

by rookie on 2011/9/9 8:19:05

"Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Now Paul teaches above that the Galatians received the Spirit. Paul teaches us that we who received the Spirit like the Galatians must make a choice whether to continue in following the flesh or the Spirit of God.

Do you agree with this?"

Hello Rookie.

Yes I do agree with Gal 3:2-4

Gal 3:1-5
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? NASU

Paul is admonishing the Galatians for embracing the works of the Mosaic Law, thereby in danger of abandoning their salvation through hearing and believing the gospel of Jesus by faith by putting themselves back under the Mosaic Laws and embracing the works of the Mosaic Law.

In the New Covenant, we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, God in each Christian, transforming our very nature as we walk and fellowship with Him daily. This is a work that God accomplishes in us.

Paul is warning them that if they continue in the flesh (i.e. By embracing the Mosaic Laws), by doing so they are forfeiting their salvation by putting themselves back under the Mosaic Covenant by seeking doing the works of the Law, thereby forfeiting God's Grace. Rather than walking by faith in hearing and being made perfect by the indwelling Holy Spirit, they choose to perfect themselves.

Specifically, Paul states: Are you so foolish? Having begun by the (Holy) Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh (i.e. the Mosaic Laws)? Did you suffer so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law (of Moses}, or by hearing with faith? (in the gospel of Jesus our Lord)"

The answer is clear, "By hearing with Faith." And definitely not by seeking to do the works of the [Mosaic] Laws. This is the theme of Galatians. Paul has clearly described that being in the flesh = being under the Mosaic Covenant wit its' 613 Laws. And that hearing the gospel of Jesus and having the indwelling Holy Spirit is part and parcel of the New Covenant. It is impossible to miss this when one reads Galatians.

For example: Gal 5:16-19

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. NASU

In the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, we have the indwelling Holy Spirit Whom transforms our very nature, as Paul described Gal 5:16.

But those who place themselves back under the Mosaic Law do not receive the Holy Spirit. Gal 5:18. You can not mix these two separate Covenants.

As Paul writes in Hebrews: The Mosaic Laws were worthless and useless in that it could never perfect anyone, so why would anyone want to be under the the Mosaic Laws.

HEBREWS tells us: The priesthood of the Mosaic Covenant is the inferior temporary Leviticus Priesthood. The Priesthood of the New Covenant is the far superior Everlasting Priesthood of Melchizedek, and Jesus is the High Priest according to Melchizedek. And where there is a change of Priesthood, there is a change of Law. So anyone who places themselves back under the Mosaic Laws, forfeits the salvation of Jesus Christ, the free gift, which is Paul's argument in Galatians.

The purpose of the Mosaic Covenant was to cause sin to increase, exposing our weaknesses, whereby God gives us the gift of Jesus Christ through His Son who kept the Mosaic Laws on the behalf of all of us who put our faith in Jesus finished work on the cross.

Paul writes: Ro 5:20-21
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. NASU

Eph 2:1-10
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, BEING RICH IN MERCY, BECAUSE OF HIS GREAT LOVE WITH WHICH HE LOVED US, EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, MADE US ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. NASU

by Christinyou on 2011/9/11 19:31:43

"Paul is teaching them who they are in Christ;

2 Corinthians 6:15-18 "And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

etc.

Very good post Christinyou.

Our Faith is not in our ability to be perfect, but rather, Our Faith is in what God has already done for us through His Son Jesus Christ, and that He will accomplish His will for us to do the good He created us to do by means of the Indwelling Holy Spirit we receive when we accept Jesus atoning blood that takes away all our sins, and our walk in faith with Him, knowing that what God says He will accomplish His will in us, will happen. And we now have a daily relationship with God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

ArtB wrote:

"But those who place themselves back under the Mosaic Law do not receive the Holy Spirit. Gal 5:18. You can not mix these two separate Covenants."

Gal 3:1-5
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Paul states that they already received the Holy Spirit and then chose to go back to walking in the flesh.

Art you wrote above that one will reject the Holy Spirit by walking in the flesh and that one cannot mix the two covenants. This is true.

With that understanding established, why would Paul need to warn the Galatians of there error since they already received the Holy Spirit?

Jesus didn't try and justify his message or who he was, he simply said words like this "blessed are your eyes if they see" but those that are without are NOT given to understand the mysteries of the Gospel. And then simply walked away from the crowd. fullstop/period. Like it... lump it... or resent the words spoken. That's what he said. And Who am i to argue with the master? however this is my view and may not be yours, nor answer the question, or resolve the issue. That said: the masters words carry more clout than ours do. And best to leave it - at that. Amen !!!

And people love to revive old calvinistic/ slash arminian views. And why? because (a) they are theological in nature and (b) they stir up debate amongst us! but realistically who is edified?? Mmmm i wonder?? Yes i wonder.

sonofthunder wrote:

"Jesus didn't try and justify his message or who he was, he simply said words like this "blessed are your eyes if they see" but those that are without are NOT given to understand the mysteries of the Gospel."

This would not be an applicable illustration for the Holy Spirit had not been given yet...

So I ask this question again...

With that understanding established, why would Paul need to warn the Galatians of their error since they already received the Holy Spirit?

by rookie on 2011/9/13 4:11:50

ArtB wrote:

"But those who place themselves back under the Mosaic Law do not receive the Holy Spirit. Gal 5:18. You can not mix these two separate Covenants."

Gal 3:1-5
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Paul states that they already received the Holy Spirit and then chose to go back to walking in the flesh."

Rookie replied:

"Art you wrote above that one will reject the Holy Spirit by walking in the flesh and that one cannot mix the two covenants. This is true.

With that understanding established, why would Paul need to warn the Galatians of there error since they already received the Holy Spirit?"

Because they simply did not own a copy of the New Testament, In fact some of the books we have were not even written yet. Their Faith was not complete, they had uncertainty between the two Covenants, and somehow they became confused? Paul wrote Galatians to get these Jews back on track.

In fact, Paul had to similarly chastise Peter for mixing the two covenants, and we know that Peter is a Christian despite his similar error that Paul had to address in both instances.

Gal 2:11-21
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith of Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith of Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." NASU

In my view, the Holy Spirit did correct the Galatians through Paul's timely letter.

ArtB wrote:

"In my view, the Holy Spirit did correct the Galatians through Paul's timely letter."

I agree. Yet it still remained that the Galatian church needed to return to following the Holy Spirit. The illustration that you gave of Peter is a good one. In this illustration....

" For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy."

We know from Scripture that Peter lived powerfully in the Holy Spirit. We know that God gave him visions which few men of other generations ever experienced. Yet what do we find in the Scripture above? Peter and others began to live in hypocrisy.

Peter, empowered with the Holy Spirit, still stumbled due to the fear of men. Both Peter and the Galatian church stumbled for the fear of men. These situations are common to all Christians are they not?

Jesus in the parable of the sower warns us of this of those who experience this and do not continue...

Mat 13:20\t"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

Mat 13:21\t"yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

ArtB, according to Scripture, from where does tribulation and persecution arise? Who is the source?

" For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy."

In the Galatian church we see that 'hypocrisy' exists. In this case those who received the Holy Spirit are swayed by the fear of men. In the Corinthian church we also see this hypocrisy. Again Paul warns those who received the Holy Spirit...

2Cr 6:17\tTherefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." [fn]

2Cr 6:18\t"I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." [fn]

In another place we find this about how God views 'hypocrisy.'

Job 36:7\tHe does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous; But [they are] on the throne with kings, For He has seated them forever, And they are exalted.

Job 36:8\tAnd if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,

Job 36:9\tThen He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.

Job 36:10\tHe also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Job 36:11\tIf they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

Job 36:12\tBut if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge. [fn]

Job 36:13\t"But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath; They do not cry for help when He binds them.

Job 36:14\tThey die in youth, And their life [ends] among the perverted persons. [fn]

In the above Scripture we find that God through the Holy Spirit...He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity. Paul is teaching this same precept to the Corinthian church. And what if the Corinthians do not follow the Holy Spirit's instructions?

Job 36:13\t"But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath; They do not cry for help when He binds them.

Job 36:14\tThey die in youth, And their life [ends] among the perverted persons. [fn]

These are they who received the word with joy, yet they stumbled when temptation or persecution arose...these are they where the word did not take root in themselves, they did not receive the love of the truth.

ArtB wrote a few post back...

"Our Faith is not in our ability to be perfect, but rather, Our Faith is in what God has already done for us through His Son Jesus Christ, and that He will accomplish His will for us to do the good He created us to do by means of the Indwelling Holy Spirit we receive when we accept Jesus atoning blood that takes away all our sins, and our walk in faith with Him, knowing that what God says He will accomplish His will in us, will happen. And we now have a daily relationship with God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

How does your thought above align with these two sections of Scriptures....

Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous; But [they are] on the throne with kings, For He has seated them forever, And they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge. [fn]
Job 36:13 "But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath; They do not cry for help when He binds them.
Job 36:14 They die in youth, And their life [ends] among the perverted persons. [fn]

And...

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

And Paul writes of this promise...

2Cr 6:17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." [fn]

2Cr 6:18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." [fn]

What does Paul mean... "but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

How do you do this?

Quote:

"""What does Paul mean... "but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

How do you do this?"""

For we now have the Spirit of Christ in us and our soul can come to the obeying of the Spirit, making decisions to put off the flesh. Without the Spirit of Christ in us all we have is the Law to make us righteous, which none can come to. Even if we could come to the righteousness of the Law, it still has no power in it to give eternal life.

John 5: 1-12 "He who has the Son has life". Only the Life Of the Son can give eternal life to the soul, which by the power of The Spirit of Christ in you the hope of Glory, delegated by the Comforter Teacher the indwelling Holy Spirit by the renewing of our minds to the MInd of Christ can we overcome the flesh. John 14,15,16,17, give testimony to Who the Holy Spirit is and what He will do when He comes, "bring to mind all that Jesus has said", Renewing our minds to the Mind of Christ, and sealing us into Christ, the living Seed of the Father in us giving us eternal life.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"For we now have the Spirit of Christ in us and our soul can come to the obeying of the Spirit, making decisions to put off the flesh. Without the Spirit of Christ in us all we have is the Law to make us righteous, which none can come to. Even if we could come to the righteousness of the Law, it still has no power in it to give eternal life."

To be more precise, is this what Paul teaches...

Job 36:8 And if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Is this the work of the Holy Spirit?

Quote:

"""To be more precise, is this what Paul teaches...

Job 36:8 And if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Is this the work of the Holy Spirit?"""

This is more work of the Law, the commandments of God.
This is not Grace that leads to salvation in Christ.

We must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God first, to take away the believing a lie by Adam who became all mankinds venue and appropraiting the setting aside of the Spirit of God and claiming self as the top dog, with satan as our father.

This Grace by faith that has come through Jesus Christ leads to being born again by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ in you the mystery hid from all time and every person until revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ in Him, the truth of the mystery, which is "Christ in you the hope of glory". There is no salvation without this birthing by God our Father, which leads us to all else that Paul teaches in how to live a Godly life in Christ Jesus.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"This is more work of the Law, the commandments of God.
This is not Grace that leads to salvation in Christ"

There are many who confuse God's mercy from grace. God's grace is the means by which man's life grows in the image of Christ. The effect of God's grace can be witnessed by others. Here is an example...

Act 11:22\tThen news of these things came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent out Barnabas to go as far as Antioch.
Act 11:23\tWhen he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.

You said that the Scriptures I posted is of the Law. So I ask you to look more closely to what the Scripture say...

Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

By what means does God "tell" and "open their ears" to remove the "fetters" of those whom are spoken of in the book of Job?

Mercy came by the Law and animal sacrifice.

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ

Phillip answered:

"Mercy came by the Law and animal sacrifice.

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ"

I asked...

By what means does God "tell" and "open their ears" to remove the "fetters" of those whom are spoken of in the book of Job?

Are you truly not able to answer or are you not willing to hear what the Word says?

Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible
Job 36:10
Ver. 10. i.e. He enableth and inclineth them to hearken to what God speaks by the rod, who would not hear in the time of their prosperity; like them Jer 22:21.
To discipline; or, to instruction, i.e. to receive instruction; or, to chastening, i.e. to hear the rod, and who hath appointed it, as is said, Mic 6:9.

Commandeth, either by his word or Spirit accompanying the affliction, and discovering the mind and will of God in this dispensation.

That they return from iniquity, which is the chief cause of their calamity.

By the Spirit coming upon them God enableth and inclines them to harken to what God is speaking to their breaking of the Law and return from their iniquity. The Spirit upon them bringing them to the understanding of their sin.

This is Gods mercy in action.

The New testament believer would have the Holy Spirit in them not just with them and by the life Of The Spirit of Christ in them they can overcome and confess their sin and He will cleanse them from all unrighteousness, Jesus being our Mediator and propitiation and our cleansing by His Blood.

This is God's Grace and by the Faith which has come by Jesus Christ that we might believe.

Galatians 3:19-29 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Even though we are of Abraham's Seed we are not Jews or Gentiles. WE are Christ Ones, born again in the Father's Seed Jesus Christ Himself birthed in us.

He is our Mediator; 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

God opens our eyes by His Spirit in us and by the Word of God Himself renewing our minds by the Holy Spirit to the Mind of Christ which Job did not even know, because the Mystery had not been revealed yet, it was secret, now revealed to Paul The Gospel Paul calls "MY Gospel", Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

"Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible
Job 36:10
Ver. 10. i.e. He enableth and inclineth them to hearken to what God speaks by the rod, who would not hear in the time of their prosperity; like them Jer 22:21.
To discipline; or, to instruction, i.e. to receive instruction; or, to chastening, i.e. to hear the rod, and who hath appointed it, as is said, Mic 6:9.

Commandeth, either by his word or Spirit accompanying the affliction, and discovering the mind and will of God in this dispensation.

That they return from iniquity, which is the chief cause of their calamity.

By the Spirit coming upon them God enableth and inclines them to harken to what God is speaking to their breaking of the Law and return from their iniquity. The Spirit upon them bringing them to the understanding of their sin."

So Matthew Poole confirms that it is by the power of the Holy Spirit that man learns of God's will for their lives. The only thing that seems incorrect in Poole's commentary is that the Law given on Mount Sinai was still in the future of some 430 years.

To add to what Poole says about correction we have this in the book of Hebrews...

Hbr 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
Hbr 12:6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." [fn]
Hbr 12:7 If [fn] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
Hbr 12:8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
Hbr 12:9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected [us], and we paid [them] respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
Hbr 12:10 For they indeed for a few days chastened [us] as seemed [best] to them, but He for [our] profit, that [we] may be partakers of His holiness.
Hbr 12:11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

This spiritual precept is of course found in the book of Job....

Job 5:17 "Behold, happy [is] the man whom God corrects; Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty.

Phillip wrote:

"God opens our eyes by His Spirit in us and by the Word of God Himself renewing our minds by the Holy Spirit to the Mind of Christ which Job did not even know,"

Job says this of Christ...

Job 19:25 For I know [that] my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this [I know], That in my flesh I shall see God,

Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. [How] my heart yearns within me!

So do you believe that God opens the ears of man by His Spirit in all generations?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit has always been the revealer of Gods will and purpose, in the old testament, with and upon, and in the New Testament with and in. How much more the revelation by the indwelling Holy Spirit, of the Christ in us than by the Holy Spirit in us.

The Revelation of the Mystery;

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"The Holy Spirit has always been the revealer of Gods will and purpose, in the old testament, with and upon, and in the New Testament with and in. How much more the revelation by the indwelling Holy Spirit, of the Christ in us than by the Holy Spirit in us."

So then does this section of Scripture...

Job 36:8 And if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,

Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.

Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

an accurate commentary on what Paul teaches us in the book of Romans.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Is this an example of what it means to be "led by the Spirit"?

"""an accurate commentary on what Paul teaches us in the book of Romans."""

In Job they are under the Law of Gods commands.

Paul is teaching in the dispensation of Grace by a new commandment and baptism into One Spirit.

Different Gov contract.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

"""Is this an example of what it means to be "led by the Spirit"?"""

Who He is and what He is to do;
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Being led brings us to be named children of God, sons and daughters of the Living God by the Seed of the Father, the literal word is sperma of God, Jesus Christ in you the hope of Glory.

Romans 8:8-17 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

This walking in the Spirit is His direct leading that we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ in us.

Led by the Spirit; If you have the Spirit of Christ, so also we are led by the Holy Spirit of God. The Spirit is life. Amen

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"This walking in the Spirit is His direct leading that we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ in us."

In this section of Scripture we find that God speaks to man.

Job 36:9\tThen He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.

Job 36:10\tHe also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

According to Scripture, who is it that is heard by man?

"""According to Scripture, who is it that is heard by man?""
Job 35:1 Elihu spake moreover, and said,

Job hears God through Elihu;

God

Phillip wrote:

"Job hears God through Elihu;

God"

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Would it be, based on the Scripture above, Christ who opens the ears of man and speaks to him?

Quote:

"""Would it be, based on the Scripture above, Christ who opens the ears of man and speaks to him?"""

Yes

AND: Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Giving Rest: Hebrews 4:2-3 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Faith comes by Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:23-26 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Yes

AND: Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Giving Rest: Hebrews 4:2-3 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

So now in the book of Job we have this commentary on the work of God...

Job 36:7\tHe does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous; But [they are] on the throne with kings, For He has seated them forever, And they are exalted.
Job 36:8\tAnd if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9\tThen He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10\tHe also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11\tIf they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

According to the Scripture above, do all generations benefit from the grace of God?

Quote:

"""Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous; But [they are] on the throne with kings, For He has seated them forever, And they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

According to the Scripture above, do all generations benefit from the grace of God? """

Yes, but in the old testament, grace was ministered by the Law and Gods mercy.

In The New testament, Grace is ministered by Jesus Christ, Grace upon Grace.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2-9 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Job could not call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit was upon him, not in him as in the believer since the Cross, by the indwelling Spirit come at Pentecost.

Paul specifically speaks of New Creatures in Christ, which Jesus Christ gave Paul to preach and chose Paul from his mothers womb to fulfill the Word of God, which is the mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, which Job could not have at the time of your posted scriptures. Jesus may have gone into the lower parts of the earth to proclaim the Kingdom of God is at hand and I (Jesus) am the Kingdom. It may be in the millennium that Job is Justified and Sanctified as Israel will rule on this earth. My Speculation from studying the Parousia.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

WE are NOW by Christ being made unto us by the Father our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, which Job could only have had by faith looking forward, of which faith had not come as faith has come by Jesus Christ NOW.

Galatians 3:25-29 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Not seeds, but Seed as in Jesus Christ.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Yes, but in the old testament, grace was ministered by the Law and Gods mercy.

In The New testament, Grace is ministered by Jesus Christ, Grace upon Grace.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Job nor Abraham lived under the law given to Moses. What grace did they receive?

I did not specify Moses Law, any command of God is a Law.

Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

Who can obey and serve Him? None, no not one, except those that are after the Cross with Christ in them, "New Creatures In Christ".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Given to Moses, by God. Without law there is no recognition of sin, so for Job and Abraham Gods commands are Law.

Grace and truth for the new covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ still stands in Jesus Christ. A specific fulfillment of the Word of God given to Paul, which "is Christ in you the hope of glory". Col 1: 27-28

What is the fulfillment of the Word of God?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"I did not specify Moses Law, any command of God is a Law."

Jhn 14:21\t"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

So for those who hear Jesus's commands and does them, are they living according to the law and thus not able to please God?

Phillip asked:

"What is the fulfillment of the Word of God?"

Rev 5:9\tAnd they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Rev 5:10\tAnd have made us [fn] kings [fn] and priests to our God; And we [fn] shall reign on the earth."

Rev 5:11\tThen I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,

Rev 5:12\tsaying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"

Rev 5:13\tAnd every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power [Be] to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!" [fn]

Rev 5:14\tThen the four living creatures said, "Amen!" And the twenty-four [fn] elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever. [fn]

Quote:

"""So for those who hear Jesus's commands and does them, are they living according to the law and thus not able to please God?"""

That would depend on ones motives. If we are pleasing God by keeping the Law, we of all men are most miserable, for even if we could keep the Law, there is no life in the Law.

If we are keeping His commandments because we love Him and want to please Him for what He has done on the Cross, then we are doing the same labor by His power in us, that He did in pleasing the Father, in whom Jesus Christ is the only one The Father is pleased with.

Ro 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Ro 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Ro 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Ro 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

To walk in the Spirit is to love as He loved and hear as He heard, "to do nothing unless it is of the Father, through Him".

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"That would depend on ones motives. If we are pleasing God by keeping the Law, we of all men are most miserable, for even if we could keep the Law, there is no life in the Law."

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The written word of God condemns those who live according to the flesh. It is only through the Spirit that one is delivered from the law of condemnation.

So your answer above concerning motive should be based on what?

by rookie on 2011/9/26 18:01:05

"Phillip wrote:

"I did not specify Moses Law, any command of God is a Law."

"Jhn 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

So for those who hear Jesus's commands and does them, are they living according to the law and thus not able to please God?"

My reply to Rookie, NO!

Here is why:

God Annihilated the entire Mosaic Law when Jesus died on the cross. See Zecariah 11: 7-13" Therefore the Mosaic Law is not applicable to us at all. Scripture is very clear on this.

Zec 1-6 foretells the destruction of the Temple built by King Herod. Even the Jewish Rabbis realize this.

When Jesus was raised from the dead, The New Covenant of Jesus Christ was established, replacing the Covenant of Moses. Note that Covenant means 'Contract'.

Here are the Laws of Christ.

THE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE: Love God with all your might, strength, and Soul, And love your neighbor as yourself.

The Law of Liberty: Mercy Triumphs over Judgement. As you measure unto others, so shall you be measured, as you judge others, so shall you be judged.

The Law of the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. See Romans 7 & 8. We have fellowship with God via the indwelling Holy Spirit, through whom GOD changes our very nature as we walk and talk with Him daily. The Holy Spirit abides in each Christian, and we in Him. Even when we do not know what to pray for, the Holy Spirit prays for us.

I live, I am alive, under these Laws of Christ, and I am dead to the entire Mosaic Laws, I've thrown them into the garbage Bin where it belongs. To understand why, read Hebrews Chapter 7. In fact, read the whole book of Hebrews and you will know that the Mosaic Covenant was annihilated by God because:

Heb 7:11-22

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. NASU

So, in light of the scriptures, how can it be that anyone here is even thinking about the Mosaic Covenant? It is our death certificate. Believe God, accept His Son for all He has accomplished for us, be aware of the indwelling Holy Spirit and acknowledge and actuate the changes He is making in you and the role The Holy Spirit plays in your life, accept this free gift of eternal life you received from the Father through the finished work on the cross, and live.

Quote: Rookie wrote;

"""So your answer above concerning motive should be based on what?"""

Romans 8:1-14 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

This is the motive, by the Christ in us, to be after the things of the Spirit, not by the works of the Law, but by the works of Christ in us.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Perfect in Christ:

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is my motive; Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ, by the Christ in me: Phillip

Quote:

"""So, in light of the scriptures, how can it be that anyone here is even thinking about the Mosaic Covenant? It is our death certificate. Believe God, accept His Son for all He has accomplished for us, be aware of the indwelling Holy Spirit and acknowledge and actuate the changes He is making in you and the role The Holy Spirit plays in your life, accept this free gift of eternal life you received from the Father through the finished work on the cross, and live."""

Amen Art. Colossians 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

"His working": Strong's Greek Dictionary
1753. energeia
Search for G1753 in KJVSL
energeia energeia en-erg'-i-ah
from 1756; efficiency ("energy"):--operation, strong, (effectual) working.

"Which workfare": Strong's Greek Dictionary
1754. energeo
Search for G1754 in KJVSL
energew energeo en-erg-eh'-o
from 1756; to be active, efficient:--do, (be) effectual (fervent), be mighty in, shew forth self, work (effectually in).

In Him, who workfare in me mightily: Phillip

Nice post Phillip (2011/9/29 11:34).

I would have liked to believe all Christians actual understood this. The Laws of Moses are death for me. The Laws of Jesus Christ is God's gift of eternal life who believe Him, and thereby we walk by faith with God, and He will transform our very nature to the point where we will naturally do the good we ought to be doing.

Art: Wrote

"""I would have liked to believe all Christians actual understood this. The Laws of Moses are death for me. The Laws of Jesus Christ is God's gift of eternal life who believe Him, and thereby we walk by faith with God, and He will transform our very nature to the point where we will naturally do the good we ought to be doing."""

Amen, according to His plan: Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Blessings in Him Art: Phillip

Art B wrote:

"My reply to Rookie, NO!

Here is why:

God Annihilated the entire Mosaic Law when Jesus died on the cross. See Zecariah 11: 7-13" Therefore the Mosaic Law is not applicable to us at all. Scripture is very clear on this."

You may have misunderstood the question put to Phillip, at least as I intended it to be...

A few posts prior to the one you responded to, I stated that neither Job or Abraham lived under the Mosaic Covenant. And that Scripture testifies that God reveals His will to these men through the power of the Holy Spirit.

So when Phillip posted this thought...

"I did not specify Moses Law, any command of God is a Law."

I responded with this verse...

"Jhn 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

So ArtB... if Jesus asks you to do something and you obey, are you in bondage to the law and thus unable to please God, or are you being led by the Spirit of God?

Quote: Rookie wrote;

""" Re:
Phillip wrote:

"That would depend on ones motives. If we are pleasing God by keeping the Law, we of all men are most miserable, for even if we could keep the Law, there is no life in the Law."

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The written word of God condemns those who live according to the flesh. It is only through the Spirit that one is delivered from the law of condemnation.

So your answer above concerning motive should be based on what?"""

Answer:

Jesus Christ and His completed work on the Cross and His return in the Flesh of Men by His Spirit, flesh quickened by the Holy Spirit and sealed into Christ being baptized into One Spirit, making us born again of the incorruptable Seed of the Father; "sons of God"

In Christ: Phillip

Aren't you guys going around in circles? I am getting dizzy.

If we walk in the Spirit, this is all that matters.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
John 15:14

WHATSOEVER...

Do we hear His voice...

sarahsdream wrote:

" Re:
Aren't you guys going around in circles? I am getting dizzy.

If we walk in the Spirit, this is all that matters.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
John 15:14

WHATSOEVER...

Do we hear His voice...

Yes this has been a drawn out process, but sometimes the word of God takes time to penetrate the minds of those who for one reason or another choose not to hear....

Your question is also my question...

"Do we hear His voice..."

I am still waiting for ArtB and Phillip to recognize this in Scripture...

Amo 3:3\tCan two walk together, unless they are agreed?

This is for ArtB and Phillip...

Can man walk with God without knowing His voice?

Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mr 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Lu 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, (Gentiles)which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

It is not up to me to hear God, it is only up to me to listen. God is the One that must speak and give us ears to hear and eyes to see.

Acts 28:24-28 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, (Jesus Christ and Him crucified) Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Do we Hear Him? "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, "Hear ye Him."

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

By whom do we Hear? By Him that is in us, The Spirit of Jesus Christ by rebirth giving us new life, past, present and future, sending the Holy Spirit to tell us all things that Jesus says, has said and will say. Jesus has said things to me in the past, He says things now and He will certainly say things to me tomorrow and until He comes and we are face to face.

In Him: Phillip a sheep. Then; De 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Now, "they will hear it" Acts 28-28
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"It is not up to me to hear God, it is only up to me to listen. God is the One that must speak and give us ears to hear and eyes to see."

There are many examples in the Holy Scripture which teach that men fail to hear...

Hbr 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Hbr 5:10 called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"

Hbr 5:11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

Whether it is the Corinthian, Galatian, Hebrew, or Ephesian church, there are those who are dull of hearing...

Why?

Quote:

"""Whether it is the Corinthian, Galatian, Hebrew, or Ephesian church, there are those who are dull of hearing...

Why?"""

Because of the hardness of mans heart.

Who is dull of hearing?

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Israel is dull of hearing.

The Gentiles could not hear at all.

Romans 10:14-21 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Only by God making manifest who He is by His Grace and mercy through faith can Jew or Gentile come to the knowledge of God through the foolishness of the preaching of the Word of God.

I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Unless ye are born again no one can understand the things of God, it is God who gives rebirth, by Jesus Christ the Incorruptable Seed of the Father born again in those that now believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now by the Christ from above birthed in us we can hear with ears from above given to us in Christ.

All mankind are incapable of Hearing God unless He gives the ears to hear and and by hearing believe the Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, the mystery hidden from all ages now manifest to His saints, which is the fulfillment of the Word of God.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Now by the Christ from above birthed in us we can hear with ears from above given to us in Christ."

The Corinthian, Galatian, Hebrew, and Ephesian church all had Christ, yet many were dull of hearing...

why?

Galatians 3:1-3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The Jewish Church trying to bring them back under the LAW. Obey the Law and you will please God. NOT! Paul is admonishing them to hear by the faith that is come. No dull of hearing, just plain wrong teaching crept
in. "bewitched"
Pleasing God has nothing to do with keeping the Law or not keeping the Law, that is false representation of what Christ did and makes the Cross of no avail. God looks at the Cross and sees me, God looks at me and sees Christ.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
940. baskaino
Search for G940 in KJVSL
baskainw baskaino bas-kah'-ee-no
akin to 5335; to malign, i.e. (by extension) to fascinate (by false representations):--bewitch.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"The Jewish Church trying to bring them back under the LAW. Obey the Law and you will please God. NOT! Paul is admonishing them to hear by the faith that is come. No dull of hearing, just plain wrong teaching crept
in. "bewitched""

Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

So is this an example where the church who had received the Spirit can choose to follow a different doctrine?

If so are they not dull of hearing?

Quote:

"""If so are they not dull of hearing?"""

I guess you could say that. This is mostly an example of the Holy Spirit sending Paul to correct wrong doctrine about the mystery of the final Gospel, which Paul calls "MY GOSPEL" the final fulfillment of Gods plan from before the foundation of the world, Eph 1 Col 1, "Christ In you", revealed to Paul first for the Body of Christ His Church. Also keeping from returning to the condemnation of the Law.

In Christ: Phillip

by rookie on 2011/9/29 17:49:08 wrotte:

You may have misunderstood the question put to Phillip, at least as I intended it to be...

A few posts prior to the one you responded to, I stated that neither Job or Abraham lived under the Mosaic Covenant. And that Scripture testifies that God reveals His will to these men through the power of the Holy Spirit.

So when Phillip posted this thought...

"I did not specify Moses Law, any command of God is a Law."

I responded with this verse...

"Jhn 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

So ArtB... if Jesus asks you to do something and you obey, are you in bondage to the law and thus unable to please God, or are you being led by the Spirit of God?"

Yes, Rookie

Yes, I am led by the Holy Spirit, and I keep the Laws of Jesus Christ, or better put, I am kept by the Laws of Jesus Christ. For it is not a burden to keep them.

But in order to keep the Laws of Jesus Christ, one needs to know them:

There are Three Laws of Christ in the NT.

I. THE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE

James 2:8-9 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

Jesus stated it partially in His Sermon on the Mount:

Mt 5:43-45
YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Jesus states it in full as His earthly ministry is nearing His crucifixion:

Mt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him,

36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 " On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

The 2nd Law of Jesus Christ is called the Perfect Law,

II. THE LAW OF LIBERTY:

Jas 1:25
But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the Law of Liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Here are the axioms of the Law of Liberty:

Mt 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." Jesus

Jas 2:11-13
"Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGEMENT."

If you want God to forgive your sins, and yes - we all sin throughout our life, then believe Jesus and be kind and forgive others of their sins, and God will mercifully forgive you of your sins.

Jesus says this too:

Lk 6:37-38

37 " Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure — pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
NASU

III. THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS.

ROMANS 1 THROUGH 7 IS ONE LONG ARGUMENT LEADING UP TO CHAPTER 8. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IS THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT WHO IS OUR HELPER, THROUGH WHOM GOD TRANSFORMS OUR VERY NATURE SO THAT WE MAY DO THE GOOD THAT GOD CREATED US TO DO.

Ro 8:1-8
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS 3RD LAW GOES ON THROUGH CHAPTER 8.

When Jesus died on the cross, the Thick Heavy veil in the Jewish Temple was torn asunder. That Veil separated Man from God. Through the Finished Work of Jesus we are once again in full fellowship with God via the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Indwelling Holy Spirit that transforms our very nature over time as we walk with God and talk with God.

50 Days after Passover, Moses received on Mt. Sinai THE LAW that bears his name. 50 days after Jesus rose from the dead, Christians received the HELPER, the INDWELLING Holy Spirit.

It is as if we are back in the Garden of Eden, only better. The Mosaic Covenant was annihilated per Zec,: 11:7-14. Zec 11:1-6 Prophecies the burning of Herod's rebuilt Jewish Temple.

The Laws of Jesus Christ of the New Covenant.

The amazing thing about these three laws is they do not burden us, but rather, they are fun and most profitable to keep. By them, God keeps us. These are the Laws of Jesus Christ and the New Covenant.

I. The Royal Law of Love.

II. The Law of Liberty.

III. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

Embracing these LAWS is my obedience. And they are not burdensome in any way. But pure joy to keep. And we Christians know that joy and can say:

He walks with me,
and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own.
And the joy we share,
As we tarry there,
none other has ever Known.

ArtB quoted:

"37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 " On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.""

This has always, from the foundations of the world, been God's requirement of man.

ArtB quoted:

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Why is "mind" of man "not even able" to please God?

Phillip wrote:

"This is mostly an example of the Holy Spirit sending Paul to correct wrong doctrine about the mystery of the final Gospel,"

So those whom Paul had already taught, those whom had aready received the Holy Spirit, strayed from what Paul taught.

Are you saying then that those whom have received the Holy Spirit, have to continue to grow in understanding so that they can attain the "final Gospel" of which you believe the Scriptures teach?

Galatians 1:1-12 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What Gospel do you think Rookie?

In Christ: Phillip

On 2011/10/7 3:14:26, Rookie wrote:

"ArtB quoted:

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Why is "mind" of man "not even able" to please God?"

I just discovered, or rediscovered, this question from you.

I believe that as God transforms over very nature through the work of the Holy Spirit over a period of time, our minds will please Him.

But I would like you to answer your own question so i may know how you see it.

Phillip asks:

"What Gospel do you think Rookie?"

The gospel that Jesus teaches of in the following verse is the same as the gospel mentioned in Galatians 1:1-12.

Luk 4:18\t"The Spirit of the LORD [is] upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to [the] poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, [fn] To proclaim liberty to [the] captives And recovery of sight to [the] blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

Likewise the gospel that Jesus speaks of is the same as the one Paul sites in the following verse...

Rom 15:15\tNevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on [some] points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God,

Rom 15:16\tthat I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 15:17\tTherefore I have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the things [which pertain] to God.

Rom 15:18\tFor I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient--

Rom 15:19\tin mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

The "gospel of Christ" which Paul has "fully preached" is the same gospel that Paul writes of in the following verse...

Rom 10:15\tAnd how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, [fn] Who bring glad tidings of good things!" [fn]

Rom 10:16\tBut they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "LORD, who has believed our report?" [fn]

Rom 10:17\tSo then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The stewardship of the gospel given by God to Paul is that he would go to the gentiles. This "mystery" of how God would also reach out to the Gentiles is in the following verse...

Isa 60:1\tArise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.

Isa 60:2\tFor behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, And deep darkness the people; But the LORD will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you.

Isa 60:3\tThe Gentiles shall come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isa 60:4\t"Lift up your eyes all around, and see: They all gather together, they come to you; Your sons shall come from afar, And your daughters shall be nursed at [your] side.

God used Paul mightly to reach out to us the gentile...

ArtB wrote:

"I believe that as God transforms over very nature through the work of the Holy Spirit over a period of time, our minds will please Him.

But I would like you to answer your own question so i may know how you see it."

I do not believe as you. Our mind according to the flesh is not able to "subject itself to the law of God."

This is the reason according to Scripture...

Isa 55:8\t"For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, Nor [are] your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9\t"For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts

We can never know how to please God according to our own imagination of our mind of flesh. As long as we try according to our mind of the flesh we remain in bondage to the law of God. It is only through "hearing" the word of God do we enter into liberty. We cannot make ourselves better over time. God does not expect us to know how to please Him, that is why He has given us the "counselor." His work in us is that we should believe in Him whom He sent.

Quote:

"""We can never know how to please God according to our own imagination of our mind of flesh. As long as we try according to our mind of the flesh we remain in bondage to the law of God. It is only through "hearing" the word of God do we enter into liberty. We cannot make ourselves better over time. God does not expect us to know how to please Him, that is why He has given us the "counselor." His work in us is that we should believe in Him whom He sent."""

Yes, as with Paul, chosen from his mothers womb to reveal His Son in Paul. This is the Mystery, we must understand.
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory", and the Holy Spirit Comforter sent also to teach us this fulfillment of the Gospel, which was give to Paul and no one else, again and again; "Christ in you the hope of Glory". Eph 1-3, Gal 1, Col 1-2, all Paul's epistles that is his whole message, "in Christ" and "Christ in you", for without the Spirit of Christ in us we are none of His.

In Christ: Phillip

ArtB wrote:

"I believe that as God transforms over very nature through the work of the Holy Spirit over a period of time, our minds will please Him.

But I would like you to answer your own question so i may know how you see it."

by rookie on 2011/10/9 19:50:49 responded:

"I do not believe as you. Our mind according to the flesh is not able to "subject itself to the law of God."

This is the reason according to Scripture...

"Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, Nor [are] your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts

We can never know how to please God according to our own imagination of our mind of flesh. As long as we try according to our mind of the flesh we remain in bondage to the law of God. It is only through "hearing" the word of God do we enter into liberty. We cannot make ourselves better over time. God does not expect us to know how to please Him, that is why He has given us the "counselor." His work in us is that we should believe in Him whom He sent."

I agree with you Rookie, just with the one exception, I do know how to please God. I please God by believing Him by faith. And I agree with you on the role of the Holy Spirit as our counselor, and He is also our prayer partner.

I please God by accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and live by the Laws of Jesus Christ. I confess my known sins and I know He will cleanse me of all unrighteousness. And I walk with Him daily, by faith, with full confidence in His promises. And have accepted the fact that God does love me. I'm quite happy and full of joy with my relationship with God. He has been good to me.

I had a stroke in September of 2005. I am mentally handicapped by it. My car is a beat up 11 year old gas guzzler, I've been through Bankruptcy. my home will probably be sold my mortgage Company in the near future. My chances of being homeless in the near future seems to be high. But I am very happy with, and thankful for, my relationship with God and that which He has done for me. I trust Him in all things. I do not allow my imperfections to separate me from Him.

Yet I'm happy, and for good cause.

Is there circumcission or non-circumcission in Christ? Scripture says no. So it does not matter to God whether we do the law or don't do the law.

If we are born from above, by the Spirit of Christ in us, in essence we now have Christ in us. Scripture says we have the mind of Christ, and His mind did nothing unless the Father said what He should do, "I do nothing of myself". Why are we admonished to renew our minds to the mind of Christ? So it seems we are to do nothing unless it comes from the Father through the mind of Christ. "His working in me". Col 1: 29.

So unless we give our minds to Christ, He has nothing to do with our works in any accomplishments we do. We must give Christ our minds or He is mindless when it comes to us as believers. Have this mind in you which was in Christ Jesus. The Mind of Christ is the only mind that is pleasing to our Father and we must depend on the mind of Christ, then our accomplishment come from the Father through the Mind of Christ that we have, if we give Him our minds.

Let us not be deceived into believing we are serving God by being good or even being evil as the King of Egypt was used to set His people free, unless we are led by the Spirit of God through the Mind of Christ we have nothing in Him, "Without me you can do nothing".

IN Christ: Phillip

Art wrote:
"And I walk with Him daily, by faith, with full confidence in His promises."

This is good...

Phillip wrote:

"Scripture says we have the mind of Christ, and His mind did nothing unless the Father said what He should do, "I do nothing of myself"."

Jhn 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Jesus declares that it is necessary that He first must "hear" before He does. In this way He modeled for us the way.

So the Corinthian church was blessed in all things pretaining to Christ, yet Paul writes this...

1Cr 4:14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn [you].

1Cr 4:15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [you do] not [have] many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

What prevents the Corinthians who have the mind of Christ from growing in maturity?

Quote: """What prevents the Corinthians who have the mind of Christ from growing in maturity?"""

That is why Paul is teaching them "MY GOSPEL", in Christ, all they had was the old Jewish religion of Law and self judgement in seeking their own will. They had to have their minds renewed to the Mind of Christ and His judgement which is the will of God in Christ for you.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"That is why Paul is teaching them "MY GOSPEL", in Christ, all they had was the old Jewish religion of Law and self judgement in seeking their own will. They had to have their minds renewed to the Mind of Christ and His judgement which is the will of God in Christ for you."

1Cr 1:1 Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother,
1Cr 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Cr 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,
1Cr 1:5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,
1Cr 1:6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,
1Cr 1:7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 1:8 who will also confirm you to the end, [that you may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

According to Paul the Corinthians had already received the Gospel and Christ was confirmed in them. So they knew "Paul's gospel" inside and out.

Yet they have fallen short...again why?

What are you trying to get me to say with all the same type questions? That my salvation depends on me and what I do? Sorry, I don't see it any other way, It is all of God and what He has done. My responsibility is to labor by His working in me. Col 1:28-29

Quote: """According to Paul the Corinthians had already received the Gospel and Christ was confirmed in them. So they knew "Paul's gospel" inside and out."""

Not as I see it or Paul would not have to reconfirm and correct their Theology.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"What are you trying to get me to say with all the same type questions? That my salvation depends on me and what I do? Sorry, I don't see it any other way, It is all of God and what He has done."

I have been laboring through the use of Scripture to see if you would chose to "hear" and then you would "see".

Pro 9:1\tWisdom has built her house, She has hewn out her seven pillars;

Pro 9:2\tShe has slaughtered her meat, She has mixed her wine, She has also furnished her table.

Pro 9:3\tShe has sent out her maidens, She cries out from the highest places of the city,

Pro 9:4\t"Whoever [is] simple, let him turn in here!" [As for] him who lacks understanding, she says to him,

Pro 9:5\t"Come, eat of my bread And drink of the wine I have mixed.

Pro 9:6\tForsake foolishness and live, And go in the way of understanding.

It is my hope that you are a "wise man".

Pro 9:9\tGive [instruction] to a wise [man], and he will be still wiser; Teach a just [man], and he will increase in learning.

Pro 9:10\t"The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One [is] understanding.

So that you would grow in "knowledge of the Holy One." That Holy One is Jesus.

My knowledge of the Holy One comes from the Holy One Himself, for God has made Him unto me wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 1 Cor 1:30

I don't see where I can go wrong if it is Jesus I seek in all my labor, for His life is imparted to me by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ rebirthed in me unto new life unto God our Father. Sealed and guided by the Holy Spirit through the Only One that makes God happy, His Son in me.

Where do you see I am going wrong?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip asks:

"Where do you see I am going wrong?"

You will not hear the Scripture because of your keen desire to hold onto a belief that Paul teaches something superior to all other men who were inspired by the same Holy Spirit.

Rookie wrote: "You will not hear the Scripture because of your keen desire to hold onto a belief that Paul teaches something superior to all other men who were inspired by the same Holy Spirit."

Amen, that keen desire to believe what Paul teaches will stay until the day of Jesus Christ on this earth. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", for now.

All of Paul by the revelation of Jesus Christ to him for usward to fulfill the Word of God, Paul speaking of the revelation in Christ, 146 times.

Here is a small sampling of which Paul speaks in all his epistles, "My Gospel"

Colossians 1:24-29 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

New nature: Romans 2:14-17 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
"My Gospel"

The revelation of the mystery, new nature in Christ:
"My Gospel" Romans 16:24-27 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Phillip wrote:

"Amen, that keen desire to believe what Paul teaches will stay until the day of Jesus Christ on this earth. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", for now."

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

So what Paul wrote to Timothy has no bearing on your understanding of Scripture?

"""So what Paul wrote to Timothy has no bearing on your understanding of Scripture?"""

Oh, yes it does, to me, for God has revealed His son in me also.

Like Paul; Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

This does not make me any better than any other born again believer, it only gives me understanding of who the Christ that has been birthed in me is what makes God my Father. It takes a Father to produce a son, and without being a son their could be no Father.

No matter what I say or what scripture I produce to the truth of Christ being born again of incorruptable Seed of the Father, Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to believers, but if you ask for bread, He won't give us a stone.

In Christ, the Bread of Life: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"This does not make me any better than any other born again believer, it only gives me understanding of who the Christ that has been birthed in me is what makes God my Father. It takes a Father to produce a son, and without being a son their could be no Father."

Jhn 14:19\t"A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.

Jhn 14:20\t"At that day you will know that I [am] in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Jhn 14:21\t"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Your doctrine of Paul having a superior gospel, does the Scripture above found in the book of John speak of the same thing that Paul teaches?

If they are the same gospel, what does God require of the believer?

Quote: """Your doctrine of Paul having a superior gospel, does the Scripture above found in the book of John speak of the same thing that Paul teaches?

If they are the same gospel, what does God require of the believer?"""

John had the words of Jesus Christ, Paul had the revelation of Christ in Him. Same Gospel, John; "Believe on Jesus Christ the Son of God" and "you must be born again". Paul, dead "crucified" with Christ and resurrected to new life by the Christ in you the hope of glory.

God requires 1 John 5: 11,12,13 John; Believe

Paul: New life, by the Christ of God our Father, Jesus birthed in us, New Creatures in Christ by Him that is born again by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, in us.

In Christ: Phillip

Edit: John received the mind of Christ, when Christ was born again in him but this mystery was revealed to Paul first, then Peter understood by Pauls preaaching, 1 Peter 1: 23, and witnessed by Peters statement in 2 Peter 3: 15-16.

Phillip wrote:

"Same gospel"

Jhn 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

So this gospel is conditional based on what Jesus said. "He who has My commandments and keeps them" then "I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

When Jesus speaks of "manifest Myself to him" is this what Paul writes of when he talks about revealing Christ in him?

John 14:21 He that (((((hath ))))) my commandments , and keepeth them , he it is that loveth me : and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father , and I will love him , and will manifest myself to him .

Has or hath: Strong's Greek Dictionary
2192. echo
Search for G2192 in KJVSL
ecw echo ekh'-o or scheo skheh'-o; (alternate form, used in certain tenses only)
a primary verb; to hold (used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote; such as possession; ability, contiuity, relation, or condition):--be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany, + begin to amend, can(+ -not), X conceive, count, diseased, do + eat, + enjoy, + fear, following, have, hold, keep, + lack, + go to law, lie, + must needs, + of necessity, + need, next, + recover, + reign, + rest, + return, X sick, take for, + tremble, + uncircumcised, use.

These commandments are not the Law but are the Love commandments, which we get, "has", when we are born again and "have" the Spirit of Christ.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh , but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you . Now if any man (((((have )))))) not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of his .

Have, same word: echo; Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh , but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you . Now if any man (((((have ))))) not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of his .

Also the word Keepeth, is not keeping the Law, but is maintaining the knowledge of these commandments which have come by Jesus Christ to those who believe and are renewing their minds to the His mind.

Keepeth: Strong's Greek Dictionary
5083. tereo
Search for G5083 in KJVSL
threw tereo tay-reh'-o
from teros (a watch; perhaps akin to 2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from 5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from 2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), i.e. to note (a prophecy; figuratively, to fulfil a command); by implication, to detain (in custody; figuratively, to maintain); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried):--hold fast, keep(- er), (pre-, re-)serve, watch.

See Greek 2334
See Greek 5442
See Greek 2892

These commandments are not by keeping to atain or maintain salvation, they are a remembrance of the Love Christ gave when He shed His blood for those the Father has given Him.

These commandment are the Love commandments and I will keep them in my heart and Jesus manifests Himself to me in this Love, "we love Him because He first loved us.

Answer: Yes this is what Paul speaks of in all his epistles, Christ in you the hope of glory. 1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

All of the love chapter 1 Chorinthians 13

The Law was nailed to the Cross, but Love poured out to the Last drop, The Blood of Jesus Christ the greatest Love testimony ever shown. Now He is in me and His Love constrains me to Love Him and Keep His Commandments.

2 Corinthians 5:14-19 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (Not by keeping the Law, but by Love Himself who is in us.)

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip writes:

"These commandments are not the Law but are the Love commandments, which we get, "has", when we are born again and "have" the Spirit of Christ."

Luk 10:26\tHe said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading [of it]?"

Luk 10:27\tSo he answered and said, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' [fn] and 'your neighbor as yourself.' " [fn]

Luk 10:28\tAnd He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

God has always required of man to love Him and one another.

Paul writes this of Abraham...

Gal 3:28\tThere is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29\tAnd if you [are] Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Please see, "And if you {are} Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed..."

Now how does Abraham love God, is it according to the law given to Moses, or by faith?

To be more precise, where in the law given to Moses is this commandment?

Gen 22:2\tThen He said, "Take now your son, your only [son] Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

We find this according to Scripture...

Jam 2:20\tBut do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? [fn]

Jam 2:21\tWas not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Jam 2:22\tDo you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Jam 2:23\tAnd the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." [fn] And he was called the friend of God.

Jam 2:24\tYou see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Please hear this...

Jam 2:22\tDo you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Gal 3:29\tAnd if you [are] Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Abraham obeyed His voice, and God perfected Abraham's love for God.

Do you see how God enabled Abraham to love Him?

No man can love God without His enablement, now after the Cross this enablement is birthed in us, Jesus Christ the Son of God, without the Spirit of Christ in us, "we are none of His.

Edit: Yes I do see how the Spirit of God was glorious upon Abraham, I also see how the Spirit of Christ is glorious in Paul. This is the mystery Paul speaks of in all his epistles, Christ in you the hope of glory, In Christ 146 times.

Do you believe Paul?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip asks:

"Do you believe Paul?"

Yes, God used him mightily to reach out to the gentiles and happily you and I, in this generation, benefit from his ministry.

Paul, in his stewardship to the gentiles, explains to us the way in which we must travel to find salvation. This path is based on faith and not works. Historically, in various generations, men have tried to save themselves through the creation of there own religion. Today, we have the Catholic church as our example which was similar to the Jewish congregation in the days of Paul. The Catholic church has created a set of rules for its members. If one follows these rules...ie, baptise a baby at birth, partake in first holy communion at the age of seven, attend Sunday mass 52 times a year,...one can 'know' that he or she is saved.

According to Paul, the keeping of these rules will not be of any benefit to fallen man. The way of faith, demonstrated by Abraham, is the only way in which man can find salvation through Christ.

Yes, I believe Paul's message.

Paul writes:

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if you [are] Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So those who are heirs according to the promise, belong to Christ. Paul writes this of Abraham whom he uses as our example....

Rom 4:13\tFor the promise that he would be the heir of the world [was] not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Paul makes this distinction about how God enabled Abraham to love Him....

Rom 4:16\tTherefore [it is] of faith that [it might be] according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

The grace of God is the means by which man is conformed into the image of His Son. Jesus declares this precept in the following Scripture...

Jhn 8:37\t"I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

Jhn 8:38\t"I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with [fn] your father."

Jhn 8:39\tThey answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Jhn 8:40\t"But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Jesus is conversing with the religious leaders of His day. Jesus acknowledges that the men before Him are decendants of Abraham. Then Jesus makes this distinction between those who have the promise and those who do not.

"If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Jhn 8:40\t"But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Those who are heirs of the promise will differ from those who seek to obey the law without the promise. Jesus says to them...

Jhn 8:42\tJesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

Jhn 8:43\t"Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

" because My word has no place in you."

Throughout the testimony of Abraham in Scriptures, we find that Abraham heard the words of God, and even in old age God continued to perfect Abraham's faith.

The words of Jesus had a place in Abraham, therefore Abraham loved Him.

Do we cut and paste the word of God according to our own imagination and earthly doctrine or do we allow the word of God to cut and paste our doctrine?

I am returning to Genesis and the testimony of Abraham. Paul writes this of Abraham's testimony...

Rom 4:16\tTherefore [it is] of faith that [it might be] according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Rom 4:17\t(as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations" [fn]) in the presence of Him whom he believed--God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

Rom 4:18\twho, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, "So shall your descendants be." [fn]

Rom 4:19\tAnd not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb.

Rom 4:20\tHe did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,

Rom 4:21\tand being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.

Rom 4:22\tAnd therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness." [fn]

I will backtrack to again establish God's work in Abraham. In the above verses, Paul declares that Abraham "did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith..."

We are going to continue to see how God "strengthened" Abraham's faith. Paul declares that this grace of God enabled Abraham in this way...

"and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform."

We will see how God worked to "fully convince" Abraham "that what He had promised He was also able to perform."

Then Paul declares that, only after Abraham received this grace, Abraham was then declared righteous because he believed that God was able to "perform" what He had promised.

Rom 4:22\tAnd therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness." [fn]

And so it has always been...

Eph 2:8\tFor by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

Grace and faith not faith alone....

I have gone back in the thread to re-establish the testimony of Abraham...

Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent
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Beginning in chapter 12 of Genesis, we are introduced to Abram and his family. This introduction begins with God speaking to Abram...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12:2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

The Lord instructs Abram to begin a journey which requires that he leave his family and home. With this command, the Lord also promises to take care of Abram. This is the important part of this introduction to the relationship between God and Abram.

God gives instructions coupled with promise. What is God's purpose?

God's purpose is the outworking of his plan, and He just recruited Abram to be part of that. God was hiring Abram. After explaining the project goal and first steps of how to get started He includes a promise to Abram as part of the proposed relationship. Possibly to help Abram to understand what his part in that relationship will be and how it will benefit not only him, but everyone he will relate to along the way. So Abram was 'briefed' on God's 'great nation' project.

a-servant wrote:

So Abram was 'briefed' on God's 'great nation' project.

Yes, the plan from beginnning to end, from Genesis to Revelation, from Alpha to Omega....

Just one thought, Abram was not hired, but he volunteered to be apart of His plan.

God gives instructions coupled with promise. What is God's purpose for revealing the components of the promise to Abram?
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Paul writes this of the promise...

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

and...

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

The righteousness of God is revealed, this is the grace that God extends to men in the hope that they would believe in Him whom He sent. As we read the testimony of Scripture concerning God's work in Abraham one will see various examples of God's grace. And this grace flows to those who live by faith.

By grace through faith.

Can faith exist without grace?

Can faith exist without grace?

The obvious answer is No, of course not !

Romans 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Psalms 84:11  For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly

Proverbs 3:34  Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Exodus 33:17  And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

Hebrews 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

reading all of Hebrews we can identify the repeating sequence of: 1) grace given -> 2 ) received by faith -> 3) response -> 4) saved

if we take any step out of that, the outcome will be different. That's the reason all these faith examples are given in the book of Hebrews, like Abraham, Abel and Lot.

So of course "grace alone" or "faith alone" is something of a half-truth or actually even less than that, we should not use as the complete model of explaining saving faith in the context of salvation.

Grace of God the everlasting Father Jesus has a history and a foundation. Now why would His grace in our time be any different?

a-servant wrote:

So of course "grace alone" or "faith alone" is something of a half-truth or actually even less than that, we should not use as the complete model of explaining saving faith in the context of salvation.

For some it may be a half truth, for others, they have not searched the Scriptures which testify of the Father's work that they might know Him whom He sent.

Deu 30:14\t"But the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Rom 10:11\tFor the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." [fn]

Rom 10:12\tFor there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

"The Lord instructs Abram to begin a journey which requires that he leave his family and home. With this command, the Lord also promises to take care of Abram. This is the important part of this introduction to the relationship between God and Abram."

Even before Abram's encounter with God in Haran we are told this by Scripture in the book of Acts...

Act 7:2\tAnd he said, "Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran,

Act 7:3\t"and said to him, 'Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.' [fn]

Act 7:4\t"Then he came out of the land of the Chaldeans and dwelt in Haran. And from there, when his father was dead, He moved him to this land in which you now dwell.

"The God of glory"..."said to him", "Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you."

When God spoke to Abram, He both gave a command and a promise. Basically, do this, so I can show you this...(Get out of your country)and (come to a land that I will show you.)

By grace through faith is the means by which God has chosen to redeem fallen man. The carnal man, the carnal mind cannot fathom what God is willing to show those who hear His voice and obey His commands. Jesus says this...

Mat 11:28\t"Come to Me, all [you] who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29\t"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Mat 11:30\t"For My yoke [is] easy and My burden is light."

Jesus does not carry the yoke, He directs those who choose to wear His yoke, in paths of righteousness.

"By grace through faith is the means by which God has chosen to redeem fallen man. The carnal man, the carnal mind cannot fathom what God is willing to show those who hear His voice and obey His commands."

Amen.

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

"God gives instructions coupled with promise. What is God's purpose?"

Paul writes this of the promise...

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

and...

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]

The righteousness of God is revealed, this is the grace that God extends to men in the hope that they would believe in Him whom He sent. As we read the testimony of Scripture concerning God's work in Abraham one will see various examples of God's grace. And this grace flows to those who live by faith.

"The righteousness of God is revealed, this is the grace that God extends to men in the hope that they would believe in Him whom He sent. As we read the testimony of Scripture concerning God's work in Abraham one will see various examples of God's grace. And this grace flows to those who live by faith."

The first testimony given to us in Scripture of the grace given to Abram is found in the book of Acts...

Act 7:2 And he said, "Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran,

Act 7:3 "and said to him, 'Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.' [fn]

We are told that "The God of glory...said to him..." Through out the Scriptures we find this precept. God speaks to man.

Can man know God if He is silent?

Nicodemus, do you know where the wind is coming from or where it is going? So is the New Birth in Christ Jesus, being born again of incorruptable Seed of the Word of God who is Jesus Christ in you, the Hope of Glroy. Paul the final gospel given to the meanest man on earth, killing and percuting Christians. If you want to see Grace by Jesus Christ in a man, look to Paul. Abraham did not have Jesus Christ born again in him, Abraham was under the mercy of God, not the Grace of God in Christ Jesus by His finished work on the Cross. "Dispensation of Grace"

Man cannot know God until He speaks and now being our Father also gives us new birth in Christ, New Creatures.

In Christ: Phillip

Eph 2:8\tFor by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,

The grace of God is a gift to fallen man. God is not willing that any should perish. His work is to have us believe in Him whom He sent. So let's identify the grace which was given to Abraham.

Gen 12:1\tNow the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 12:2\tI will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
Gen 12:3\tI will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Gen 12:7\tThen the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

Gen 13:14\tAnd the LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are--northward, southward, eastward, and westward;
Gen 13:15\t"for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants [fn] forever.
Gen 13:16\t"And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, [then] your descendants also could be numbered.
Gen 13:17\t"Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you."

Gen 14:18\tThen Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he [was] the priest of God Most High.
Gen 14:19\tAnd he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;
Gen 14:20\tAnd blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all.

Gen 15:1\tAfter these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not be afraid, Abram. I [am] your shield, your exceedingly great reward."
Gen 15:2\tBut Abram said, "Lord GOD, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house [is] Eliezer of Damascus?"
Gen 15:3\tThen Abram said, "Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!"
Gen 15:4\tAnd behold, the word of the LORD [came] to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
Gen 15:5\tThen He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

God spoke through the power of the Holy Spirit five times in the process of time. And then the Scriptures say...

Gen 15:6\tAnd he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Can man believe without the grace of God?

John 1:29-34 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 1:12-17 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Did Abraham receive Jesus Christ? Did Abraham even believe on His name? How could Jesus have been born again in Abraham? Abraham was a great man of God and because he believed God, how did he believe, by God Himself and it was counted to him as righteousness, not made righteousn by Christ in Him. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. I will not glory in anything that Abraham did, just like I will not glory in anything I do. The only One that I glory in is the One that as it is written, My Glory is in God my Father and God my Savior, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of God, in whom all Three are now in me and my life is now made conformable to Him who gave Himself for me. Not Abraham.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Did Abraham receive Jesus Christ? Did Abraham even believe on His name?"

According to Scripture we have this testimony...

Neh 9:6\tYou alone [are] the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.

Paul confirms this to the Colossians...

Col 1:15\tHe is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Col 1:16\tFor by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Col 1:17\tAnd He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

The Lord of Nehemiah and the Lord of the Colossians is the same....Paul provided the commentary on who is the Lord God of the Old Testament.

Next we are told this in Nehemiah...

Neh 9:7\t"You [are] the LORD God, Who chose Abram, And brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans, And gave him the name Abraham;

Neh 9:8\tYou found his heart faithful before You, And made a covenant with him To give the land of the Canaanites, The Hittites, the Amorites, The Perizzites, the Jebusites, And the Girgashites--To give [it] to his descendants. You have performed Your words, For You [are] righteous.

The Lord God chose Abram. He found his heart faithful.

Now Jesus also provides commentary on Nehemiah 9:7...

Jhn 8:56\t"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw [it] and was glad."

Jhn 8:58\tJesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Why do you reject the God of the Old Testament?

How could I reject the God of the Old Testament and believe in His Son? 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 5:19-21 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God was in the world in Abrahams time showing us by whom He was going to reconcile the world to Himself. Now He is reconciling us to Himself, by the Son. There is no life in Abraham, only a forshadowing of the Seed, which is Jesus Christ.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

We are now not justified by works, we are justified by Grace through Faith, which is Jesus Christ the Son of God, by whom God now speaks to us.

Ro 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I will see Abraham some day and he would point me to Jesus Christ if he was the first thing in heaven I see, which he does by his life with God in the Old Testament. My life now is in Christ, He is the first One I will see.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In Christ: Phillip

Neh 9:6 You alone [are] the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Who are Nehemiah and Paul refering to in the Scriptures above?

This is who Nehemiah was speaking to. The all powerful creator of the universe who was God, The Son and the Holy Spirit and He, being the Three in One Created all things through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, all Three, being One God.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in ((our)) image, after ((our)) likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

This is who Paul was refering to.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Now!!! Ephesians 1:3-13 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

"who first trusted in Christ", Abraham showed how God would sacrifice His own Son, even unto death of the Cross, by His Blood we are saved, Through the praise of Gods glory that we first trusted in Christ for Salvation, which is the Gospel preached to us by Paul. Even Abraham believed God and put his own human flesh son on the altar, God providing the shadow of His Own Son as the sacrifice for those after the Cross, the Ram in the thicket, thus alowing Issac to live in the flesh. This was counted to Abraham for righteousness, not making him righteous, which we now have by Christ being born again in us, but showing through Abraham even the truth of the Gospel of our Salvation, "Christ in you the hope of Glory", of which Abraham could not avail himself of this righteousness for Christ had not come and be born, live, minister to Israel who received Him not, die on the Cross, be resurrected, Seen in His resurrected body and ascend into Heaven and come back in the Spirit of the Born Again giving new creation life to those He our new Father has given to the Son, That we might become the sons of God, plus the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit who now is in us forever.

We must see Abraham of who he was and how God provided types and shadows of the One Who would Save all of Gods birthed children. Not in Abraham but In Christ.

A birthed child of God, in Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"We must see Abraham of who he was and how God provided types and shadows of the One Who would Save all of Gods birthed children. Not in Abraham but In Christ."

When the Scripture's state...

Act 7:2\tAnd he said, "Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran,

Act 7:3\t"and said to him, 'Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.' [fn]

Is this event in Abraham's life a "shadow" to him or did "The God of glory" appear to him?

If you accept what the Scripture says, then who in the Trinity appeared to Abraham?

To Abraham;
Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Ps 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

Nehemiah 9:7 Thou art the LORD (JEHOVAH)the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

To Paul;
Joh 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

Ac 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Ac 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Ac 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Do you see the difference, yet One God. The mystery not revealed to Abraham, but to Paul.

Romans 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Who is establishing us? By what mystery? Abraham did not know this mystery.

Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 3:4-5 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Revealed to Paul not Abraham or anyone else.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

My prayer always, for you also: Phillip Colossians 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

This is our reconcilliation and perfection Gospel we should be preaching: Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This truly is the purpose of the Son of man, The Son of God revealing Himself with the Holy Spirit in the believer.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip quoted:

Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

I do not understand the point of this Scripture. The only thing I can say is that for the most part,El Shaddai, is used to describe God as one who blesses. In the book of Job, we see how God blesses Job by giving him greater understanding of Himself.

With that said, who in Scripture appeared to Abraham?

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

LORD:
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3068. Y@hovah
Search for H3068 in KJVSL
hwhy Y@hovah yeh-ho-vaw'
from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

This is not the incarnate, resurrected Jesus Christ the Son of God who appeared to Paul.

Jesus
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2424. Iesous
Search for G2424 in KJVSL
IhsouV Iesous ee-ay-sooce'
of Hebrew origin (3091); Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:--Jesus.

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3091. Y@howshuwa`
Search for H3091 in KJVSL
ewvwhy Y@howshuwa` yeh-ho-shoo'-ah
or Yhowshua {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah}; from 3068 and 3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader:--Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare 1954, 3442.

This the only begotten Son of God by whom "God-saved" His own born again son's of God, Who is the express image of the Father.

He who even the Father speaks to us now by Him.

Hebrews 1:2-3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The Son of God by whom we now live.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

You may not believe Paul, but some day we all have to deal with this mystery; "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"This is not the incarnate, resurrected Jesus Christ the Son of God who appeared to Paul."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, [fn] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him].

How does this Scripture above confirm or deny your doctrine?

This passage is not meant to deny that men had witnessed manifestations of God, the burning bush, backside from the cleft of the rock, etc. as when he appeared to Moses, Abraham and the prophets (comp. Nu 12:8; Isa 6); but it is meant that no one has seen the essence of God, or has fully known God. The prophets delivered what they heard God speak; Jesus what he knew of God as his equal, and as understanding fully his nature.

No man hath seen God at any time. This declaration is made to show the superiority of the revelation of Jesus above that of any previous dispensation. It is said, therefore, that Jesus had an intimate knowledge of God, which neither Moses nor any of the ancient prophets had possessed. God is invisible; no human eyes have seen him; but Christ had a knowledge of God which might be expressed to our apprehension by saying that he saw him intimately and completely, and was therefore fitted to make a fuller manifestation of him. See Joh 5:37; 6:46; 1Jo 4:12; Ex 33:20; Joh 14:9. Albert Barnes;;;

Ex 33:20; 1Tim 6:16

Jesus Christ did not appear to Abraham, only in the bosom of the Father until Jesus appeared in the flesh, we had no exact image of God our Father, in whom we now have by the Son.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"No man hath seen God at any time. This declaration is made to show the superiority of the revelation of Jesus above that of any previous dispensation"

Jhn 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. [fn]

How does your understanding confirm or deny this Scripture...

Confirms it.

Do you deny it?

1 Jn. 3:8

`For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, ( in us and made real to us.) ,that He might distroy (get rid of .. ..do away with )the works, (evil works ) ,of the
devil.'

Evil works /Works of the devil

VS.

Works of God

*The work the devil wants/trys to work in us:

All that is aginst what God says in His WORD.

There is so much more, But I must go for now.

To us all ,

Lovingly ,
Elizabeth

Phillip wrote:

"No man hath seen God at any time. This declaration is made to show the superiority of the revelation of Jesus above that of any previous dispensation"

Jhn 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. [fn]

To be more specific...does your idea of "dispensation" deny this..."the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world."

What does "every man coming into the world" mean to you and how does this support or deny your thought on dispensation?

Elizabeth wrote:

Evil works /Works of the devil

VS.

Works of God

*The work the devil wants/trys to work in us:

All that is aginst what God says in His WORD.

Yes, sister this is where the rubber meets the road.

God Bless

What do I say.. and how do I say it ?
It is not easy for me to put into words.

I really don't know what the word dispensation means.
I'm sorry.,
But will try to talk of some of what I believe you are talking about:

God is the Spirit WORD. He is : He that speaketh..Voice,..Breath
His Spirit is full of all His Atributes.
His WORD is Light.,guiding us, how to walk ,. ...path,..way,that is narrow.

Jesus' Father is : the Spirit WORD ( `The WORD became flesh ).

You are right Rookie,God is invisable .As He passes by we see His backside. (we can see what He has done).

Paul said ,Acts 17:27`That they should seek after the Lord,if perhaps
they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He is not far from
every one of us;
*So,God is everywhere.

God Bless,as we study together,

Lovingly ,
Elizabeth

EDITED:

* But Rookie,Every man does not want/recieve this Light.
But some would choose darkness.

Elibeth wrote:

"* But Rookie,Every man does not want/recieve this Light.
But some would choose darkness."

Yes, near the beginning of this thread I covered the first example of this precept given to us in Scripture. The testimony of Abel and Cain declare your thought. Even though God was not pleased with Cain's sacrifice, God still spoke to Cain and encouraged him to repent, and promised him that if he did God would accept him. Yet we know from the Scripture in 1 John that Cain chose to follow Satan.

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1Jo 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor [is] he who does not love his brother.

1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,

1Jo 3:12 not as Cain [who] was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

God Bless
Jeff

martyr asks:

"Is not our growth in Christ not a series of choices? "

Yes.

The "series of choices" are given to us by the Holy Spirit. If we choose to obey we find that God is able to do what He promises for those who believe Him. In obedience to His word, whether by rhema or logos or the combination of both, we discover His love for us. Only through obedience can we learn to trust Him. And it is this trust, which is from His grace, that we grow from faith to faith.

Scripture teaches that we all make mistakes. The source of these mistakes are based on our carnal mind. These mistakes also prove to be a teaching moment for our Lord. We are able to compare the results of doing things according to our own imagination with the results of following the Holy Spirit. The grace of God always gives increase. The carnal mind always disappoints.

As we grow in love towards our Father we discover the love of Christ for the Father because we are being conformed into the image of His very own Son. We become co-heirs with Christ. Those who are in Christ will love the Father because we love Him because He first loved us.

This love cannot be experienced by those who do not walk the ancient path. Can two walk together unless they agree?

Quote:

"""This love cannot be experienced by those who do not walk the ancient path. Can two walk together unless they agree?""

What is the "ancient path"?

This love must be expierenced by the new born in Christ. None walk a path that is pleasing to the Father except the Son. That is why the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and brings the one the Holy Spirit speaks to and gives the Faith of The Son of God, to those that will believe.
If I have the Life of the Son in me, I have the Faith of the Son of God in me. His life, His faith.

Then we can agree, for two are One.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip asks:

What is the "ancient path"?

Job 24:13\t"There are those who rebel against the light; They do not know its ways Nor abide in its paths.

Job 24:14\tThe murderer rises with the light; He kills the poor and needy; And in the night he is like a thief.

Job 24:15\tThe eye of the adulterer waits for the twilight, Saying, 'No eye will see me'; And he disguises [his] face.

Job 24:16\tIn the dark they break into houses Which they marked for themselves in the daytime; They do not know the light.

These do not know the light, therefore,"They do not know its ways Nor abide in its paths."

But there are those who have found the "old paths" because of the light...

Psa 23:3\tHe restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake.

Psa 25:4\tShow me Your ways, O LORD; Teach me Your paths.

Psa 119:105\tNUN. Your word [is] a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

Pro 12:28\tIn the way of righteousness [is] life, And in [its] pathway [there is] no death.

Jer 6:16\tThus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way [is], And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls...

Psa 65:11\tYou crown the year with Your goodness, And Your paths drip [with] abundance.

Your word is a lamp unto my feet, Your paths drip with abundance.

Why the new testament and the mystery revealed to Paul and the fulfillment of the Word of God which is those chosen in Christ before the world began and being crucified with Christ and becoming new creatures in Christ if we can be saved by the old. The old did not know the new that was coming, only in parts and pieces that did not fit, shadows of "the mystery hidden from the foundation of the world not revealed to His saints. What is the mystery now revealed in the New Testament given to Paul by Jesus Christ Himself?

Every scripture you posted is old and pointing to the new.
Which Paul says is the mystery, "Christ in you the hope of glory". Is Christ in you, what is your hope of glory?

In Christ a new created race of Gods children, son's by His Son that is born again in us by the incorruptable Seed of the Father.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ , he is a new creature : old things are passed away ; behold , all things are become new .

Creation race, new creature, a new original formation in Christ; Strong's Greek Dictionary
2937. ktisis
Search for G2937 in KJVSL
ktisiV ktisis ktis'-is
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance.

See Greek 2936 In Christ, In Christ.

Galatians 6:14-16 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Creature: Same word in the Greek, New creation.

In Christ a new creature, a son of God, the Israel of God:

Not old Israel, YET. But because of Christ in us, the mystery, The Israel of God.

Phillip, with a white rock waiting in glory with my new name which no man knows but revealed to me. Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

1 John 4:2-4 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Is He come in your flesh, the temple?

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip continues to ask:

"Is He come in your flesh, the temple?"

Maybe I am missing something. Could you please tell me specifics of how you know Christ is in you?

One word came into my life after 25 years of salvation in my own self righteousness being pleasing to God by my works.
I loved the old testament and still do, but I could not make pleasing the Old Testament God of all power in creation and perfect in His judgement and condemnation of sin in all of humanity, work and kept having to neal before the altar in the Baptist Church continuously and keep redeadicating my life for fear of loosing my salvation. I still could not be pleasing to God.

I hated the the one word when it first came into my life, "birthing". I could not rap my mind around the word and could not understand why it was so in my mind and I could not get it out, it consumned my every thought.

I decided to do a study in the Word that had to do with this word, "birthing". The Old Testament made good sense to me, if I did what was right God would save me and I would be pleasing to Him. Well of course that did not get me anywhere except to my own self righteousness. The gospels all made sense except John and some how it was different. I had always heard the statement "born again" which worked well with the five spiritual laws in the little booklet I used for evangelism. That statement led me to Pauls writings. I stayed in Eph 1&3, Col 1, Gal 2, for 5 years. Then by revelation of the Word which I know came by the Holy Spirit Teacher, I came to the knowledge of The Christ that was in me. When I began to understand what "birthing" really meant, now that word means everything to me. Peter even confirmed it in 1 Peter, the incorruptable Seed of the Father, John confirmed it also, "being born from above".

But Paul from what is present in me gives the revelation of Jesus Christ of what the mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory is all about. I love the whole Word of God, but Paul teaches nothing except Christ and Him crucified and has the only fulfillment of the Gospel that brings me to the place of assurance that Jesus Christ the Son of God has been birthed in me, "birthing" and I am a new creature in Him and He in me.

All glory is to God, for it is He who gave me new life in the Son and put His incorruptable Seed in me and gave me the Holy Spirit to reveal and confirm it in me.

I had nothing to do with it, it is all of God. But, I know Christ is in me. This is my conformation; "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me" "As He is in this world so are we".

Edit: Now that I know He and I are one, He is the One that is pleasing to the Father, "by His works that worketh in me mightily." Col 1:29

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"Then by revelation of the Word which I know came by the Holy Spirit Teacher, I came to the knowledge of The Christ that was in me. When I began to understand what "birthing" really meant,"

Col 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

Col 2:7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it [fn] with thanksgiving.

When you say, "When I began to understand what "birthing" really meant,"" Did you gain this understanding through Paul's exhortation in the Scripture above?

Quote: """When you say, "When I began to understand what "birthing" really meant,"" Did you gain this understanding through Paul's exhortation in the Scripture above?"""

Yes, but the two foundational scriptures for me from Paul for all the rest were Col 1:25-29 and Gal 2: 16-20

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip wrote:

"When I began to understand what "birthing" really meant,""

When you say, "I began to understand," what was the nature of God's grace that enabled you to understand "birthing". We know that the carnal mind is incapable of "knowing" the things of God. So how did God give you understanding?

You sighted this Scripture as part of what God did to make you aware of Christ in you...

Col 1:29\t \tWhereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

How does God work mightily in you?

Quote: """When you say, "I began to understand," what was the nature of God's grace that enabled you to understand "birthing". We know that the carnal mind is incapable of "knowing" the things of God. So how did God give you understanding?"""

By the renewing of my mind to the Mind of Christ, through faith. I was like Nicodemus and could not understand how I could be born again. The birth of Christ began to be formost in my mind, if Mary could become with child by the Spirit, so could I become a son of God by the same spirit in placing the same Incorruptable Seed in me by faith. This is the faith of the Son of God which God says without this faith nothing is pleasing to God our Father. By "Faith of the Son of God", through faith I am a child of God. My Spirit is now the spirit of Jesus Christ a new creature in Him. The Holy Spirit sent from the Father through my soul/mind is still becoming more Christ like and the person in the mirror is getting clearer and clearer, it is Christ in me the hope of glory. "As He is in this world so are we", is becoming line upon line and precept upon precept truth by "His working in me". Col 1:29

In Christ: Phillip