2 Thesalonians 2 The coming of Jesus and our gathering to him

2Th 2:1 And, brothers, we entreat you, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 for you not to be quickly shaken in the mind, nor to be disturbed, neither through a spirit, nor through speech, nor through letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ has come.
2Th 2:3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that I told you these things, I yet being with you?
2Th 2:6 And now you know what is holding back, for him to be revealed in his time.

(Paul said that we now know what is holding back the coming of Jesus is because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2 )

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until he comes out of the midst.
Paul has just clearly identified who the person is that is holding back in verse 3 and 4 and said in verse 6 now you know who is holding back as Paul has just told the reader
When Paul wrote the letter it was easily understood by the reader, and Paul had told them of the same before and he says to them now you know, Paul said do not be deceived .Paul’s Letter was to be simply read and understood, you do not write a letter to confuse or to be made a mystery.

( Even after Paul has clearly identified who the person (he) is there appears to still be confusion today with who this he is and some say that the he is the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in these verses and also when you open the scripture at any point in the Bible and there is a he word used this is a pronoun and a pronoun is always referring to the person that has been clearly identified in the preceeding verse or verses exactly the same with our English grammar an example is as follows;)
Also in the old King James the he word is not used in Capital Letters but as small print.

Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Luk 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
Luk 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
Luk 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

(Having this in mind the he that Paul is referring to is (the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,) as this was the last person being spoken about before the statement he)

2Th 2:3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that I told you these things, I yet being with you?
2Th 2:6 And now you know the thing holding back, for him to be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken G1096 out of the way.G3319

There has also been a large misunderstanding with the words TAKEN and THE WAY
The TAKEN word does not mean to remove or to take away, quite the opposite
The taken word in the Greek is G1096

γίνομαι
gínomai; fut. genḗsomai, 2d aor. egenómēn, perf. part. gegenēménos, 2d perf. gégona, 2d pluperf. egegónein, aor. pass. egenḗthēn for egenómēn.

This verb is mid. deponent intrans. primarily meaning to begin to be, that is, to come into existence or into any state; and in the aor. and 2d perf. to have come into existence or simply to be.

This same Taken word is also used in other verses is scripture such as
1Th 1:5 For our gospel cameG1096 not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we wereG1096 among you for your sake.

Mat 1:22 Now all this was done,G1096 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,

And the word WAY
WAY
G3319

μέσος
mésos; fem. mésē, neut. méson, adj. Middle, in the midst.
from, meaning from the midst, from among, away (Mat_13:49; Act_17:33; Act_23:10; 1Co_5:2; 2Co_6:17; Col_2:14; 2Th_2:7)

With all of the above in mind the verses are read like this

2Th 2:1 And, brothers, we entreat you, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 for you not to be quickly shaken in the mind, nor to be disturbed, neither through a spirit, nor through speech, nor through letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ has come.
2Th 2:3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that I told you these things, I yet being with you?
2Th 2:6 And now you know the falling away, and the man of sin the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2
Is what is holding back, for him the Son of perdition to be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only the son of perdition is holding back now, until he comes into existence out of the midst of the peoples.
2Th 2:8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4
2Th 2:9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved.
2Th 2:11 And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie,
2Th 2:12 that all may be judged, those not believing the truth, but who have delighted in unrighteousness.

Let us surrender all to our saviour knowing no matter what may come we will meet him in the air, and be with him forever more, Let us all be watching and ready.

Budgie, you write:

"2Th 2:6 And now you know the falling away, and the man of sin the son of perdition,

(2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2 )

Is the thing holding back, for him the Son of perdition to be revealed in his time. "

But verse 6 is not talking about someone or something holding (himself) back, but rather about the one who is holding him back, or restraining him.

Restrain is katechō G2722. It is not a reflexive verb, but active. There is something holding him back - the subject, and there is someone being held back - the object. Your understanding makes katecho a reflexive verb as if he was holding himself back, and this is not how the verb is used here.

I am not too conversant with the greek, but I believe "what witholds" in verse 6 is a neuter noun, (your version indeed says "the thing holding back") ; whereas there is a "him" also in verse 6 "for him to be revealed ", which is a masculine pronoun. So there are decidedly two parties being spoken of in this verse, the restrainer and the restrained.

David

Thanks for your reply

Paul started his letter by saying that Jesus cannot return until the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed, in this sense what and who is holding back the coming of Jesus has been clearly identified and must happen to fullfill prophecy.And Jesus stated that this person would be revealed and that Jesus would destroy him at his coming.

In that sense what is written in verse 6 is the person that Paul said is holding back the coming of Christ 'is the son of perdition as the subject' holding back the object Jesus, this keeps the verb as active and then the subject the son of perdition who is holding back will be revealed when he comes into existence out of the midst keeping him as a masculine pronoun, the son of perdition is waiting for the right time, the same as when he waited for when Jesus was born.
God is always in control, however prophecy must be fullfilled as Jesus has stated. The same as when Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him but allowed it to happen to fulfill prophecy
Do you agree that at any place that you open in scripture the person has been clearly identified before a pronoun such as he is used and that the 2nd person has been clearly identified when the person being referred to as a he has changed

Budgie, you say that "Paul started his letter by saying that Jesus cannot return until the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed." But that is not what the scripture says.

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, BY the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and BY our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.(or, is come). 2 Thess 2:1-2 (KJV)

Verse 1 is a common way of Paul's writing. He beseeches them by....It is the motive for what follows in verse 2; that they should not be troubled as if they were to be included in the judgments which the day of the Lord would usher in. They would be with Him before that day. When He is revealed from heaven on that day of judgement, the saints will have rest ch1 v7.

Paul is re-empasising what he had already taught in the first letter, that the coming of our Lord for his saints (our gathering to Him), and the coming of the Lord with his saints (The day of the Lord) are seperate events. We are to look look earnestly for the former, and not be troubled about the latter.

As to a pronoun identifying the last person named; I accept it as generally to be true, but I am not sure which specific verse you are talking about.
.
Phanetheus,

I understand the sense in which the Holy Spirit is being spoken of here, and especially in the church. But I can also accept that God has instituted governments as the powers that be, ordained by God to restrain evil, and hold back the wicked one until his time.

David

Phanetheus, thank you for your comments

In verse 6 of the chapter, "what withholdeth" is "το κατεχον ", which is neuter.

I have looked in the context of the surrounding verses, and, except for one, all the other nouns are masculine or feminine.

The only neuter noun in the context is "mystery" - "μυστηριον"; as in "the mystery of iniquity does already work."

A study of all the mysteries of the new testament is always beneficial. Perhaps you know of a site where this mystery of iniquity is expounded.

So, if the thing which withholdeth is the mystery of iniquity, does this help our understanding of the passage? Or does the mystery of iniquity include an understanding of all the reference to the wicked one, the antichrist, the believing the lie, the falling away and the Day of the Lord?

David

Twin?

"I" don't believe so.

John 14:23-26 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love ((me,)) he will keep ((my)) words: and **my** Father will love him, and ((we)) will come unto him, and make ((our)) abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, ((but the Father's which sent me.)) These things have I spoken unto you, being yet (who's presence?) present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

All three, Trin; Jesus, The Father, The Comforter Holy Spirit.

About 2 Thess, Do we really believe that the timing of the end times is up to Satan, man, Nations or any thing else that puts itself above God. Sounds like giving satan the credit for Gods timing and Christs Cross. "The unpardonable sin"?

Twin takes away the birthing of Christ in the believer, the incorruptable Seed of the Father, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". "New Creature, New Creation life".

In Christ: Phillip

(Having this in mind the he that Paul is referring to is (the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,) as this was the last person being spoken about before the statement he) 2Th 2:3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2Th 2:4 the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2 2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that I told you these things, I yet being with you? 2Th 2:6 And now you know the thing holding back, for him to be revealed in his time. 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken G1096 out of the way.G3319

The pronoun "he" confuses some people. in verse 4&6 he refers to the anti-Christ, while in verse 7 he refers to the Church.

2:8 And then ( after the taking away of the church, the Rapture) shall that Wicked ( The anti Christ) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This verse proves the Rapture of the church takes place before the Great tribulation(Matthew 24: 21)

Great job on your study. I will have to spend some time with your post (notes) and re-study 2Th. Again great job.

Krautfrau, you write among other things

"The man of sin, or the old man, is revealed when the curtain in the temple, or the veil in our hearts, is torn in two by the coming again of Jesus when He baptises in the Spirit."

This seems to me, my friend, to show clearly the way you understand, or should I say misunderstand the scriptures.

By completely spiritualising the"man of sin", you are denying the literal fulfillment. By making this man of sin the same as "the old man" (which it is not), you are denying that Christ has put to death our old man on the cross.

By spiritualising the second coming of Christ and making it equivalent to the baptism in the Holy Ghost, you are denying the truth of His actual physical second coming.

Sorry, but in no way can I go along with what you write.

David

Christ alive in the flesh body made for Him, 1st coming to this earth.

Christ alive in the Born again, 1st coming of His 2nd coming to this earth in the Spirit of the believers the Father has given Jesus Christ for His Body the Church.

Christ in the resurrected, glorified body come to this earth, and touch down where He disapeared into heaven, coming in the clouds with the saints His body the whole Chruch, the 2nd part of His 2nd coming or His third coming of total.

Do we believe He came in the flesh as the only begotten Son of God by Holy Spirit birth through His mother Mary?

Do we believe He is come in the flesh of the believers, which is also the temple of the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory in this flesh temple quickened to contain the Whole of God nature as sons' of God.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

"Is Come"; Strong's Greek Dictionary
2064. erchomai
Search for G2064 in KJVSL
ercomai erchomai er'-khom-ahee
middle voice of a primary verb

(used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred (middle voice)

eleuthomai el-yoo'-thom-ahee, or (active) eltho el'-tho,

which do not otherwise occur)

to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively):--accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

Is He come? Yes, Amen.

Galatians 2:17-21 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Are we made perfect in Christ to the Father now?

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Perfect; Strong's Greek Dictionary
5046. teleios
Search for G5046 in KJVSL
teleioV teleios tel'-i-os
from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.

See Greek 5056Strong's Greek Dictionary
5056. telos
Search for G5056 in KJVSL
teloV telos tel'-os
from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):--+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5411. phoros
Search for G5411 in KJVSL
joroV phoros for'-os
from 5342; a load (as borne), i.e. (figuratively) a tax (properly, an individual assessment on persons or property; whereas 5056 is usually a general toll on goods or travel):--tribute.

Only Paul knew how the human being works when it comes to salvation and perfection in Christ, not the old man mind which we still wrestle with, but the new creation life in Christ Jesus our Lord and new Life in God by Christ Jesus.
Body quickened to contain the whole of God, The Father and Jesus Christ making their abode with us and the Holy Spirit in us forever.

In Christ: Phillip

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The day of Christ (day of the Lord) that Paul is referring to in this scripture is also the coming judgment of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (KJV) 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Paul does not want them to be troubled about this Day of the Lord being at hand because it is darkness and not light and we are children of light so that that day will not overtake us.

Notice 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

They were supposed to be ready for the rapture because the rapture will take place before His wrath is poured out because He has not appointed His children to wrath.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When the rapture takes place those who are born of God will meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I believe this will take place before He comes in flaming fire taking vengeance on them who know not God and did not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul was not telling them in Thessalonica not to worry that the rapture was at hand because that is the Christians hope of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to rapture His church.. He did not want them to be troubled that the horrible day of the Lord was at hand. He let them know that -that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

The rapture will be a meeting in the air before the wrath of God is revealed on the day of the Lord. The destruction that takes place on the day of the Lord will not be directed toward the church of the first born. The blood bought church will meet Jesus in the air before He destroys the wicked. We are His body the fullness of Him who fills all in all. The body will be with their head (the Lord Jesus Christ) and they will meet Him in the air when He comes. Those who are saved during the great tribulation were not a part of the blood bought church to be able to meet Him in the air.

Colossians 3:3-4 (KJV) 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

There will be a meeting in the air before their will be a meeting of destruction on earth. One thing I believe the scriptures clearly teach is that the church will be delivered from the wrath to come. I cannot tell for sure when the rapture will take place but I know he has not appointed His children to wrath.

Blessings to all!

So Jesus is coming back two more times? Once to meet us in the air and once at the very end? With respect, I don't see that in my bible.

So Jesus is coming back two more times? Once to meet us in the air and once at the very end? With respect, I don't see that in my bible.

I don't believe the bible teaches that he is coming back 2 more times either. He is only coming back to earth one time to destroy the wicked. The rapture is a meeting in the air because when Christ who is our life shall appear then shall we who's life is hid with Christ in God shall appear with Him in glory.

The main reason of his coming back is not just to destroy the wicked but to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all them that believed.

As I live saith the Lord the whole earth shall be filled with my glory.

His saints are seated with Him in heavenly places and when Christ who is our life appears then shall we also appear with Him in Glory. When Jesus comes back to earth His saints will be with Him. Those who are in Christ Jesus will be with Him when he returns to earth because He is our life.

Just as a human body can't live separated from its head neither can Christ body live apart from Christ. Wherever He is we will be with him. Jesus is not visible in the clouds nor on earth right now only the Holy Spirit is on earth in Christ body. As soon as Christ becomes visible in the air His body will be caught up to meet Him and so shall we ever be with the Lord. When He comes back to earth His body of saints will be with Him.

Praise God for ever! I'm not looking for the undertaker but I'm looking for the uppertaker.

Even so, come Lord Jesus, your bride waits.

It still amazes me that there is no mention of the church in 2 Thess 7 but there is an assumption that it is the church being spoken of as because of 'The Taken out of the Way', but this taken word does not mean to remove quite the opposite it means to come into existence.

Also in Revelation 20 It speaks of the coming of Jesus and Satan being bound and the Beast and False Prophet being cast into the Lake of Fire at his coming and in verse 5 that this is the First Resurrection and that those that are in the first resurrection will not have to fear the second death and that the second resurrection will be after the 1000 year reign.

This clearly states that this is the first resurrection.

It says in Corinthians 15;20 that Jesus is risen from the dead and he is the first fruits of them that slept and in verse 23 that everyone in his order Christ the first fruits and (afterward they that are Christs at his coming).

The above verse clearly that Jesus is the First risen from the dead in the incorruptible body and that all of the rest will be risen at his coming.

It also says in 51 to 54 that we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet and the dead shall be raised incorruptible.

The above in Revelations clearly shows that the First resurrection does not take place until when Jesus comes and destroys the Beast and False Prophet and Binds Satan and in Corinthians that the resurrection happens in a twinkling of an eye not over a period of time also in 1 Peter we read of our resurrection

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, He according to His great mercy having regenerated us to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in Heaven for you
1Pe 1:5 the ones in the power of God being guarded through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time;
1Pe 1:6 in which you exult; yet a little while, if need be, grieving in manifold trials,
1Pe 1:7 so that the proving of your faith, much more precious than perishing gold, but having been proved through fire, may be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

All of the above verses ties in with the Books of Revelation, Daniel, Joel, Matthew as well as various other Books.

Romans 11 speaks of us Gentiles being of a wild olive tree being grafted into the Pure Olive Tree because of some of the branches of Israel being being broken off because of their unbelief, Jesus made the new covenant with Israel after he fullfilled all of the handwritten requirements and he came firstly to Israel, I am so thankfull that we have been grafted in, we are part of the new covenant promise, Jesus still loves Israel.

This clearly states that this is the first resurrection.

Of course this is the first resurrection because the second resurrection is for all the unrighteous that refused to be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

The bible says blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. Those who have part in the first resurrection the second death will have no power because they have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

Revelation 19:6-16 (KJV) 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Notice what it says in Rev 19.6-16 about the marriage of the Lamb and how she (the lambs wife) is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. Then look at verse 11 and see heaven is opened, and behold a white horse and notice who is sitting on that white horse and notice his eyes as a flame of fire and notice how great he is and why he is coming to the earth. Notice also that there are armies on white horses following him. Praise God: notice their clothing, notice that they are clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Who are they brother, look at verse 8 and I will shout all by myself, hallelujah and praise the Lord it is His saints. Praise God brother I am looking to be in that number of those armies in chapter 19 following my Lord and Savior. When you get to chapter 20 those who also have part in the first resurrection are those who were saved out of the great tribulation. Notice in 20:4 it says “and they lived” to also reign with Christ because they didn’t receive the mark of the beast. The rest of the dead didn’t get to live and reign with Christ because they received the mark. The marriage of the Lamb has already taken place in chapter 19 and the bride is seen riding on white horses following the Lord Jesus Christ. Notice also brother it says nothing about those dead in chapter 20 living to also to reign with Christ as having been caught up to meet him in the air and neither does it mention those who never died as being change in a moment and caught up to meet him in the air. The true blood bought church who are faithful will be raptured to meet the Lord in the air before Rev, 20 because they are seen in chapter 19.

Blessings to you

rbanks wrote, Quote: """Notice what it says in Rev 19.6-16 about the marriage of the Lamb and how she (the lambs wife) is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. Then look at verse 11 and see heaven is opened, and behold a white horse and notice who is sitting on that white horse and notice his eyes as a flame of fire and notice how great he is and why he is coming to the earth. Notice also that there are armies on white horses following him. Praise God: notice their clothing, notice that they are clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Who are they brother, look at verse 8 and I will shout all by myself, hallelujah and praise the Lord it is His saints. Praise God brother I am looking to be in that number of those armies in chapter 19 following my Lord and Savior. When you get to chapter 20 those who also have part in the first resurrection are those who were saved out of the great tribulation. Notice in 20:4 it says “and they lived” to also reign with Christ because they didn’t receive the mark of the beast. The rest of the dead didn’t get to live and reign with Christ because they received the mark. The marriage of the Lamb has already taken place in chapter 19 and the bride is seen riding on white horses following the Lord Jesus Christ. Notice also brother it says nothing about those dead in chapter 20 living to also to reign with Christ as having been caught up to meet him in the air and neither does it mention those who never died as being change in a moment and caught up to meet him in the air. The true blood bought church who are faithful will be raptured to meet the Lord in the air before Rev, 20 because they are seen in chapter 19.

Blessings to you"""

Amen, Therefore comfort each other with these words 1 Thess4:17&18.

What comfort in Christ: Phillip

by Christinyou
When you get to chapter 20 those who also have part in the first resurrection are those who were saved out of the great tribulation. Notice in 20:4 it says “and they lived” to also reign with Christ because they didn’t receive the mark of the beast.

I'm sorry but the Word doesn't expressly state that those who have a part in the first resurrection were saved out of the great tribulation - anywhere in Rev 20 (or in the Bible). In verse 4, it states:

*** And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them

1. That were "beheaded" for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God
2. Those who had NOT worshipped the beast, neither his image
3. Neither who had received "his" mark on their foreheads or hands.

(These) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ***

To me, being beheaded in verse 4 means - ALL those who who loved not their lives unto death (throughout the ages) who were martyred.

We see that Scripture here does not mention "the great tribulation," maybe it's just me but I humbly submit that man has made a doctrine out of it to support what HE BELIEVES and not what the Scripture says. Please know that this topic is my understanding of the Scriptures and subjective, you are free to agree or disagree!!

God bless you,
Lisa

PS: Edited for clarity (hopefully!!)

by rbanks
Of course this is the first resurrection because the second resurrection is for all the unrighteous that refused to be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

I submit (humbly) to you brother that scripture does not expressly state this. My understanding (it's subjective, I know so anyone is free to disagree), is that the second resurrection and the second death are NOT synonymous.

Here is the order of the second resurrection (Rev 20.12):
1. The dead - great and small stand before the throne
2. The book(S) are opened.
3. The book of Life is opened.
4. The dead are judged according to what was recorded in the books
5. The dead come from every 4 corners (Rev 20.13)
6. Any name NOT found written in the book of life is thrown into the lake of fire.

I believe (from the Scriptures) that the first resurrection are those who walked perfect before the Lord, Old Testament and New; these have no fear of the second death because they have already been judged. Their reward is that they will rule and reign with Christ during the 1000 years and after.

The second resurrection are those who did not walk perfectly before the Lord, did not overcome in their life (even with the Overcomer inside them), they will not rule and reign with Christ BUT THEY will be judged according to what is written in the books. AND those whose names are not found written in the book of Life, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Why do I go against the grain of dogma and believe this?

1. It does not make sense (logical) to pull out the book of life at the second resurrection judgment if there is no one in it.
A. Which begs the question: Why isn't the book of life pulled out at the first resurrection? (I ask this because most Christians believe that every born-again person is going in the first resurrection, correct?)

2. If every person that going to hell is damned then logically they have no good works - zip, nada, nothing that requires ANY book to be pulled out for them.

3. The verse Rev 20.15 states "whosoever is not found in the book of life," and this verse has direct implication that there WILL BE those who are found "IN" the book of life.

Finally, brethen, I humbly add sadly that we, Christians, have a VESTED INTEREST in believing that each of us are going in the first resurrection, so how could God possibly dole out anything less to those ruling and reigning with Him!! (Matthew 20:16, Mark 9:35, Luke 12.48)

We need to strive to enter in at the strait gate and strive to overcome to be in the first resurrection. If we have the Overcomer in us (speaking for myself as well), and we do not overcome; whose fault is that? It's definitely not the Holy Spirit's; it would be ours for not believing that all things are possible to those who believe!

These are my (subjective) short quick reasons for believing that the second resurrection and the second death are NOT synonymous.

God bless us all as we reason together, my friend!
Sister Lisa

(Edited a few words for clarity)

Mat 13:30 LET BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Same at verse below)

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the END OF THE WORLD: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things?

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Looks like we all grow up until the end of the world and then the Lord comes and separates the wheat from the tares.

After the tribulation He will gather His elect and we will see Him coming in the clouds.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

He only comes once... at The End!

With love,
Sarah

Here is the order of the second resurrection (Rev 20.12): 1. The dead - great and small stand before the throne 2. The book(S) are opened. 3. The book of Life is opened. 4. The dead are judged according to what was recorded in the books 5. The dead come from every 4 corners (Rev 20.13) 6. Any name NOT found written in the book of life is thrown into the lake of fire. I believe (from the Scriptures) that the first resurrection are those who walked perfect before the Lord, Old Testament and New; these have no fear of the second death because they have already been judged. Their reward is that they will rule and reign with Christ during the 1000 years and after. The second resurrection are those who did not walk perfectly before the Lord, did not overcome in their life (even with the Overcomer inside them), they will not rule and reign with Christ BUT THEY will be judged according to what is written in the books. AND those whose names are not found written in the book of Life, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Dear Lysa,

This is amazing because your understanding is similar to my understanding in believing that there are overcomers who will rule and reign with Him as well as there will be others who didn’t overcome all things but will still be saved from eternal damnation.

This is also similar to the belief that there will be a bride within the Church who are considered to be the overcomers.

I do believe that the first resurrection will be all the truly saved and the last resurrection will be all the damned. I don’t believe any saved people will be judged at the white throne judgment because all the saved will be at the judgment seat of Christ.

Lets look at Revelation 20:11 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Notice who is sitting on the throne here and notice from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away and that there was found no place for them

Looking at Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Notice the dead are the rest of the dead from verse 5 because the dead that are in Christ are already raised from the dead to live having eternal life because the second death has no power over them.

Notice also John 5:28-29 (KJV) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This shows two separate resurrections, one of the just and one of the wicked. In vs, 12 again they were to stand before God and the books are opened because God is just and He always does what is right He is giving them their just due because they did not except the righteousness he offered them through his Son Jesus. The books record all their works not being good enough and all there sins not being atoned for nor able to be erased. The book of life has to be there to show them that there name was not there because it could only be there by the blood of the lamb. There is no place for them in God’s kingdom because it is reserved only for those in the Lambs book of Life and because there was no place for them they were cast in the Lake of Fire. Now John said that at this great white throne in verse 11 that all the dead that stood before it that there was no place for them and after the judgment they were all cast into the lake of Fire.

I will stop for now. God Bless you my sister in the Lord.

rbanks!!! This is truly interesting but I have to go to jail and do not have time to formulate a response but I will get back with you brother sometime tonight!!

God bless you,
Lisa

Brother Banks,

This is wild that we believe almost the same thing but come to such contrasting views about it!! LOL This is good, let's get started!!!

Lets look at Revelation 20:11

Notice who is sitting on the throne here and notice from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away and that there was found no place for them

Looking at Revelation 20:12

Notice the dead are the rest of the dead from verse 5 because the dead that are in Christ are already raised from the dead to live having eternal life because the second death has no power over them.

Notice also John 5:28-29
This shows two separate resurrections, one of the just and one of the wicked. In vs, 12 again they were to stand before God and the books are opened because God is just and He always does what is right He is giving them their just due because they did not except the righteousness he offered them through his Son Jesus. The books record all their works not being good enough and all there sins not being atoned for nor able to be erased. The book of life has to be there to show them that there name was not there because it could only be there by the blood of the lamb. There is no place for them in God’s kingdom because it is reserved only for those in the Lambs book of Life and because there was no place for them they were cast in the Lake of Fire. Now John said that at this great white throne in verse 11 that all the dead that stood before it that there was no place for them and after the judgment they were all cast into the lake of Fire.

1. For an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out
2. those who have done good to the resurrection of life AND those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Yes, if you choose to believe that they are two separate resurrections, I can see why you are saying what you are saying!

God bless you my friend!!
Lisa

Dear Lysa,

Also notice Revelation 20:6-10 (NKJV) 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Notice Satan is released from his prison after a thousand years and will go out to deceive the nations. This also shows that those who were deceived that fire came down from heaven and devoured them. The devil was cast into the Lake of Fire and those that were deceived will be cast into the Lake of Fire after the great white throne judgment.

Notice it says in Revelation 20:14 (NKJV) Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This is clear that the last judgment is reserved only for death and hell (Hades) because it is the second death for those who were never redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. The last judgment is the great white throne and I don’t see any indication in scripture that any saints will be there.

I believe that according to the bible that all saints must be somewhat of an overcomer because it says in 1 John 5:4 (NKJV) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

And also in Revelation 21:7-8 (NKJV) 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

I can’t find anywhere in scripture that the rest of the dead would also include anyone born of God because it says death and hell was cast into the lake of Fire. This also includes all those deceived by Satan after the 1000 year reign but it never mentions anyone living in the last judgment and where they go because we know anyone having not the Spirit of Christ is none of His and all those in Christ have His life in them.

Maybe you can give me some scripture or some other inkling in the passages besides the book of Life because the only thing I see concerning the Book of Life in this passage is that there names were not there. God is just and if there names had of been in the Book of Life they wouldn’t be there because they would have been in the first resurrection.

Blessings to you sister.
rbanks

Quote: """

Lets look at Revelation 20:11

Notice who is sitting on the throne here and notice from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away and that there was found no place for them

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne , and him that sat on it , from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away ; and there was found no place for them .

"earth" Strong's Greek Dictionary
1093. ge
Search for G1093 in KJVSL
gh ge ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

Seems to include all the people on the earth also.

"Them" would seem to include the multitudes of them that no place was found. Strong's Greek Dictionary
846. autos
Search for G846 in KJVSL
autoV autos ow-tos'
from the particle au (perhaps akin to the base of 109 through the idea of a baffling wind) (backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the comparative 1438) of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons:--her, it(-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, (self-), the) same, ((him-, my-, thy- )self, (your-)selves, she, that, their(-s), them(-selves), there(-at, - by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with), they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare 848.

Quote: """ (Edit: Let me clarify that all those among the qualifiers in verse 4 are obviously 'in Christ;' but the Word does not state that all those 'in Christ' (down through the ages) are going in the first resurrection. Whew, I hope I adverted a heretic hunt!!)"""

The ones to Judge with Christ are those that were in the Rapture and returning, with His saints. Then the souls of them that came out of the tribulation.
\\
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones , and they sat upon them , and judgment was given unto them : and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus , and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast , neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads , or in their hands ; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years .

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Revelation 19:1

CHAPTERS 19-20:6

The Manifestation of the King and the Millennium

1. Heavenly hallelujahs and the marriage of the Lamb (19:1-6)

The whole redeemed company, Old and New Testament saints, add their amen and hallelujah to the outburst of praise on account of the execution of the righteous judgment. And they worship God, for it is of the righteousness which accomplished the destruction of the great whore. In the midst of this wonderful and impressive worship-scene the throne begins to be heard. A voice from the throne said: "Give Praise unto God all ye His servants and ye that fear Him both small and great." And the command is at once obeyed. John hears the fourth hallelujah and it is the greatest, the most magnificent. It is the great hallelujah-chorus of heaven. Like the voice of many roaring waters, like the voice of mighty thunderings, a great multitude saith, "Hallelujah for the Lord our God Omnipotent reigneth."

Who is this great multitude? In the first verse we heard the Hallelujah of the martyred companies. The twenty-four elders and four living creatures did not join in this first hallelujah. Their hallelujah followed. And now the great outburst of a great multitude. This multitude includes all the redeemed in glory. And they rejoice and give glory for an additional reason which is made known for the first time in this book. The marriage of the Lamb is about to be consummated. "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife has made herself ready." The harlot, which claimed to be the bride, being judged, the true bride of Christ is seen in glory. And it is the marriage of the Lamb. His joy is now filled full for He receives her, who is bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh. The second Man, the last Adam, is joined to her who is to rule and reign with Him.

But who is the bride about to become the Lamb's wife? Some teach that it is Israel to be united with the Lord in the closest bonds. But these expositors forget that the scene is a heavenly one. This marriage does not take place on earth where the faithful remnant looks up, expecting Him to appear for their deliverance, but this marriage is in glory. It is true such relationship is declared to be Israel's in the Old Testament. She was married to Jehovah in a legal covenant and on account of her faithless condition, because Jerusalem played the harlot (Eze 16:35), she was put away. For a time Israel was the wife of Jehovah (Isa 54:1) and then on account of her wickedness became divorced. She will be taken back in the day of her national repentance when the Lord comes. But as one who had been divorced she cannot be a bride again. The bride of Christ to become the Lamb's wife is the Church of the New Testament.

In Christ: Phillip

Had an amazing time in prayer and in the Word last night reading both the 1st and 2nd Book of Thessalonians.
Crying out for mercy for the Church today, we need Jesus to be real in our lives, will he really find faith when he comes?
Let us search our hearts today and allow him true reign in all areas, let us be a bride that is ready.
It is very interesting to note in both Letters it can be seen that the body of church in Thessalonia were under great affliction, tribulations and worries, you get a real insight into Pauls heart for the church and what the church is going through by what Paul is writin, however Paul reminds them of what Jesus has done for them and he is always as in a lot of his letters talking about the coming of Jesus and to not lose sight of the fact, no matter what comes our way, Trust in Jesus.
Paul suffered so much in the flesh but counted it all joy.
Thessalonians is a book that inspires us to be patient, live holy, draw close to our saviour, and to be aware that there will come difficult times, But run the race set before us, and Paul states as well as Jesus in the book of Matthew to be aware of the times and seasons, BUT be comforted, be ready, be alert, do not be decieved by all of the things that can draw our attention and focus away from Jesus,do not fear.
Jesus has restored to us what was lost in the garden of Eden,
We can walk with our Lord and saviour and God our father at every moment of the day.
There is no shame, no guilt, no lies, God sees us as we are and sees us through his precious Son Jesus

It is not so much always looking ahead but being ready now, our life is but a flicker of a flame, if you died today can you say I will be with Christ?
Can you say I know Jesus and most importantly will Jesus say I know You?
Keep short accounts with God.
Let us be Holy as he is Holy, If we walk in the Light as he is in the Light we have fellowship with one another and the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL sin.
Praise GOD
We are right now seated with Jesus in the Heavenly place as Ephesians 2;4-6 states
Die today so that Jesus may live in your heart and life, let us all be in one accord.
As Paul states in the 2nd Letter of Thessalonians, BE PATIENT.

JESUS WILL COME HE WILL NOT LEAVE US AS ORPHANS

I encourage you all to read both the Letters of Thessalonians with only one focus in mind (HIS ONE SINGULAR COMING)

Rbanks,
Brother, first let me apologize for taking a couple of days to get back to you. My life has been busy but I've been seeking the Lord about what I believe and how I came to believe it. For those who want a scholarly response may want to move on!! LOL

by rbanks:
Maybe you can give me some scripture or some other inkling in the passages besides the book of Life because the only thing I see concerning the Book of Life in this passage is that there names were not there. God is just and if there names had of been in the Book of Life they wouldn’t be there because they would have been in the first resurrection.

Romans 14:10 – But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Cor 5.10 – For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Lisa here. I did a search of the KJV and found that there are two references to the judgment seat of Christ and only one reference to the great white throne (Rev 20.11) – I’m just asking here but where does the Bible stipulate that these are two different judgments? Or “who” said they were different judgments? Or is it the traditions of men that have been passed down through time? Just wondering out loud...

Mt 25:31-46 and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Lisa here. This seems to me that He is talking to the sheep and the goats at the same time not at different judgments and/or resurrections.

Acts 24.14-15 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: and have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

This speaks of “A” resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain A BETTER RESURRECTION:

Lisa again. Now back to Rev 20.11-14 – Christ has justified us by faith BUT we will judged by our deeds if we do not obtain a better resurrection (the first one).

Now brother, I hope I can show the honesty of my heart to you on this... that I do NOT think that I know or understand every little nuance about the last judgment, far from it; this is just my simplistic understanding of the scriptures from my belief system of the end times. If the Lord tells me to chuck it all, I will b/c I have to count everything as dung that I might gain Christ! Love you in Christ brother rbanks!

God bless you brother,
Lisa

Lisa,

Thank you for your kind reply. I just noticed you had posted and sorry I hadn’t seen this before now.

It is obvious to me when one notices the great white throne judgment as being the last judgment of those who didn’t make it in the first resurrection and also this will be the second death where as those in the first resurrection will not be affected by it.

Notice that in the 19th chapter the marriage supper of the Lamb has already taken place because the wife had made herself ready. I have to believe that the judgment seat of Christ has already taken place before the marriage supper because Paul said that we must all appear at this judgment seat to receive according to what we have done in the body-good or bad.
Also in chapter 20 there are thrones for those who are reigning with Christ so this must be after the judgment seat of Christ because the last judgment is after the 1000 year reign.

Also when the apostle mentions that we must all appear at the judgment seat of Christ. He is talking to the “all” as all Christians.

Another thing is, why would God judge the wicked along with the just. He even says he puts a difference between those who serve God and those who do not.

I will stop for now to see if this is making any sense to you.

Blessings to you Lisa!