divorce and remarry?

I know everybody believes that Matt. 19:9 says "except for sex immorality" is exempted in commiting adultery.. but remember Deut. 24:4 the woman or wife was "defiled".

Do God's commandment(standard) not permission(human standard or hardness of people's heart) about divorce and remarry... If we are really serious about marriage we will understand God doesn't really like divorce and remarry.. just try to understand all the passages about marriage, divorce and remarry. Not only one verse.

Remember also Pharaoh, God "hardened" his heart.. it is the same with people(hardness of their hearts) about marriage, no matter what God's commandment people will still do divorce and remarry even without the permission. Hardness of their heart is sin, Pharaohs hardened heart is sin, both God allowed it. therefore remarry is sin. Matthew 19:5 "they are no more twain but one flesh",therefore what GOD hath joined together let NOT MAN put asunder.

Responding to endzone's joke about "really hot".

It is common knowledge that many that are involved in pornography have very attractive wives. This is a spiritual problem and not a physical one. Even though Tiger Woods is not a Christian, he is a prominent example of this. Jimmy Swaggart is a Christian example. And, I am sure you can name many more.

Attractive wives (physically) are not the answer to stem this epidemic. It is complete surrender to Jesus Christ. Buddha cannot help and Tiger will find this out and hopefully it will be part of his path to Jesus.

Sarah

Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

But I would say that if the Lord gives you a release to be involved with somebody that has been divorced, that we should certainly accept His grace for that situation

Will He go beyond His Word? That is dangerous to think. Be careful.
God will not change His Word for any man. However, God will give grace beyond measure to serve Him in sincerity and truth.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So, what does man do? He changes God's Word to fit his lusts.

The printed edition may be changed, but it does not change the eternal edtion.
Psa 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Paul wasnt speaking to the divorced when he said better marry than burn. That was for virgins and widows. He already said we must remain single if divorced because we are still bound to our spouse as long as they are alive...1cor7:39

This is confirmed by Jesus who says EVERYONE who divorces and marries another commits adultery and anyone who marries a divorced person commits adultery. They would both have to be schizophrenics to then say if you do marry you have not sinned. Romans 7 says it all...

But like Jesus said most wont accept the truth or the narrow way. This argument is already settled when God commands us to keep our unconditional vows and not call them a mistake...eccl 5. That verse has a pretty strong warning its sad how easily people thumb their nose at these verses while calling Him Lord.

Its very telling when a church teaching results in a divorce rate that is no different than the world. We should stand apart and our lives should be a light that reflects Christs love and mercy the same way the Father loved His prodigal son with a love that really believes hopes and endures ALL things...cor 13.

Husbands love your wives the way Christ loves the church...eph 5. Are you really willing to argue with that statement?

Amen, keepingfaith.

So, let's get you on the record here. Are you willing to write letters to every mainstream church in America and tell them that their pastors should not perform marriages for people who have once been married? Are you willing to write to every JP and tell them that what they are doing is wrong in this regard?

Is this a reasonable request? These pastors can read the Bible, right?

Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:"

Do divorced people suddenly have their sex drives disappear? What about the woman who is divorced and her husband has remarried? Now there is no possibility of being reconciled to her husband as Paul puts it. Or what about the man whose wife has remarried? Is he condemned to a life of burning with lust or will God change his desires somehow?

Doesn't God have overcoming grace?
Rom. 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid."
There may be struggles, but God has grace for every trial. God is not limited by human sinfulness and sex drives. Right?

You asked why pastors allow divorced remarried people in their church and perform these sinful ceremonies. I guess for the same reason some let same sex couples in...they ignore scripture. God tells us that most are false teachers and few are true. The sad hypocrisy is most who approve of remarriage do not approve of homosexuality and would turn them away or tell them to repent.

Titus 1 gives the reason... it says they teach things they should not teach and tear apart families for the sake of sordid gain. They love those unscriptural tithes.

You asked why pastors allow divorced remarried people in their church and perform these sinful ceremonies. I guess for the same reason some let same sex couples in...they ignore scripture. God tells us that most are false teachers and few are true. The sad hypocrisy is most who approve of remarriage do not approve of homosexuality and would turn them away or tell them to repent.

Titus 1 gives the reason... it says they teach things they should not teach and tear apart families for the sake of sordid gain. They love those unscriptural tithes.

Sorry for duplicate post my phone is messing up and I cant figure out how to delete a post

Sad...

As to the original post, part of the problem lies in that it was started by a one post Charlie (agitator) (probably someone we all know and love but has underlying issues about divorce and remarriage).

Read the second paragraph:

---“Do God's commandment(standard) not permission(human standard or hardness of people's heart) about divorce and remarry...” ---

It starts off as an innocent question but meanders off into statement against it… (And by the way, where are all you died in the wool grammar folks when you need them?!! LOL)

--"Remember also Pharaoh, God "hardened" his heart.. it is the same with people(hardness of their hearts) about marriage, no matter what God's commandment people will still do divorce and remarry even without the permission. Hardness of their heart is sin, Pharaohs hardened heart is sin, both God allowed it. therefore remarry is sin."--

I believe that a hard heart is what causes divorce. But I’m trying to understand your logic… let me see if I have this straight… since God caused (let’s say), your spouse to have a hard heart and not you and a divorce ensued, God will punish you as well as the hard hearted one? I definitely do not agree with your logic of the Scriptures at all.

But God bless you anyway, whoever you are!
Lisa

you know I'm gonna throw my two cents in here. First off

Endzone...you may be 54 but your actin like a 12 year old..."are they hot"..."you holier than thous"...get a grip guy repent of your proud heart. as to your link 'Divorce Hope' they said "This Scripture could not be talking about forbidding to marry in general. Nobody would listen to such nonsense preached." They must have never heard of the Shaker's. I don't really care what you or they have to say. I care what the Lord says.
Now I'm in a situation where divorce is going to be the outcome. She filed, her heart is hardened. But the sad part is not her leaving me its her hardness of heart to the Lord.
Jesus said "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Ok so how do you justify marriage to a divorced person. Its adultery.

Oh and as for the escape clause "saving for the cause of fornication"....married people do not commit fornication. They commit adultery. This was talking about the time between "engagement" until marriage. Remember Joseph when he found out Mary was with child? He being a just man sought to put her away (divorce)privately. But the Lord directed him other wise. What God has joined together let no man seperate....not judges, lawyers, hard hearted spouses. If thats they biggest cross I have to bear in this life I feel blessed. Hey I could be some place where they took my children, my home , my life. He who does not take up his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me....Its not about our happiness. Its about Him

What does believing the Word of God have to do with being “holier than thou?” Trust me I know what a hard pill it is to swallow, but who am I to argue with God? Isn’t that what “believing” means?

The Pharisees were the ones who wanted to use the law to divorce…they were the ones who wanted to stone the adulteress. Not my position.

Those who divorce (or endorse it) appear “holier than thou” when they judge a spouse for their short-comings, and show no mercy. This takes an extremely prideful (not to mention hard-hearted) heart. It is the epitome of hypocrisy for a divorced person to say “don’t judge me for judging my spouse.”

We “holier than thou’s” believe in forgiveness and redemption. We don’t believe adultery is the “unforgivable sin” and we can divorce for that reason and use someone else’s sin to justify our own. True humility sees the person through God’s eyes and loves them with hope, the way Hosea loved Gomer even after all her harlotry. Didn’t Jesus say not to cast stones unless we are without sin?

I’m sure you’ve heard of the Apostle Paul who was Saul… no one is beyond redemption and no marriage is beyond redemption when at least one spouse is willing to remain faithful and obedient. Paul says “how do you know o wife whether you will save your husband?” True faith believes “with God all things are possible” and “nothing is too hard for Him.”

It shouldn’t be too much to ask for us to lay down our lives for our spouse if they are in rebellion, after what Jesus did for us…

1 John 3:16
“We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.”
Matt 16:25
“Whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.”

Lisa said:
"since God caused (let’s say), your spouse to have a hard heart and not you and a divorce ensued, God will punish you as well as the hard hearted one? I definitely do not agree with your logic of the Scriptures at all."

Did God not predestine that Jesus would be crucified? Did He not MAKE His OWN SON suffer and cause all those people to turn against Him?

The Bible is full of righteous people suffering at the hands of the wicked. What does God mean when He says it is better to suffer for doing what is right than to suffer for doing what is wrong?

1 Peter 2
"For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH..."

Job lost everything but his life was restored even more. It says the Lord brought all that evil upon him. There is a purpose in suffering...the Bible has lots to say about it. It is not God "punishing" the innocent party.

The true prophets in scripture were all hated and rejected, their lives were not peachy, they endured much tribulation. Was God punishing them?

I've heard this quote more than once.

"God is more concerned with our holiness, than our happiness."

EndZone,
Do you really desire to know what the Bible says?
Here was my answer:

Is this a reasonable request? These pastors can read the Bible, right?

Why would someone say they cannot come to church, where they can get help for the soul?

How about answering my question from earlier?

Doesn't God have overcoming grace? Rom. 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid."
There may be struggles, but God has grace for every trial. God is not limited by human sinfulness and sex drives. Right?

Well, you really didn't answer my question JB1968. Are you willing to ask couples who come into church as couples (and one has already been divorced) to please not come to church? Are you willing to counsel them that they should break up? Are you willing to ask pastors not to marry couples where one has already been married and divorced? Do you really believe what you are saying? Thanks, EZ.

I will answer your ridiculous query EZ.
Are you willing to confront any and ALL sin or just the ones you find personally objectionable? Jesus said "that which is highly esteemed among men is an ABOMINATION to GOD!!"
You are giving honor to adultery by your comments.

The apostle John stated " all unrighteousness is sin".
So if someone is committing ADULTERY -EVEN IF IT IN A REMARRIAGE- then it falls into the category of SIN. Why do you want to continue to minimize THE SIN OF committing adultery, as Jesus HIMSELF DEFINED it in the gospels SEVEN TIMES?

Matthew 5:32
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity

( FORNICATION- PREMARITAL SEX DURING BETROTHAL- this "exception was only included in Matthew but conspicuously absent in both MARK AND LUKE BECAUSE of the betrothal custom which was not applicable to gentiles who were the main recipients of Mark and Luke's gospels),

1. makes her commit adultery;

and
2. whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and

3. marries another woman commits adultery .”

Mark 10:11
And He *said to them,
“ Whoever divorces his wife

and
4. marries another woman commits adultery against her;

Mark 10:12
and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man,

5. she is committing adultery.”

Luke 16:18
“ Everyone Everyone Everyone Everyone Everyone Everyone
Everyone Everyone

( I am curious- Does everyone actually mean no one? because as many christians that are divorced and remarried people sure seem to act like NONE OF THEM ARE COMMITTING ADULTERY!!!)
6. who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery,

and

7. he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

YOU HAVE 7 OCCURRENCES OF THE WORD COMMIT WHICH PLAINLY DENOTES AN ACTION. PASTORS EITHER CANNOT READ OR THEY ARE THE GREEDY SELF-SERVING LIARS PAUL DESCRIBES THEM AS IN TITUS 1.

Just because christians remarry does not make their sexual uncleanness any less offensive in God's eyes as any other kind of perversion. In fact strictly speaking from a biblical standpoint, re-marital adultery is even more of an abomination to God than sodomy (homosexuality). If you want a detailed analysis of how that is scripturally sound, go to my pastor's website and listen to the covenant warrior's interview #2 that can be found on his blog. Search believerx at wordpress and you will find a wealth of information on adultery divorce and remarriage.

Endzone. Do you have a bible you read or do you get your theology from ESPN? ....And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,....Matt. 10:29. Why the mention of wife? Why would someone be required to forsake a wife for Jesus?

Endzone,

I honestly do not think that Natan4Jesus stalks you in these threads! To me, I’m thinking his “Oh no,” statement was, “Oh no, not the divorce thread again!” but I could be wrong! Just like martyr posted in the KJV thread, “Here we go again.” LOL Same type of response, different thread!

To anyone else,

These threads keep popping up and usually by ‘one hit wonders’ type of people who register a new name so no one knows who they are to start Trouble (yes, Trouble with a capital “T”!).

I will just say that I’m not responding to keepingfaith’s response to me because I was writing to jhtg (unless he is jhtg?!), its truly beating a dead horse to get involved AGAIN. Anyone can go back through all the past divorce/remarriage threads and see what has been written since 2004 on this subject!

I will say that I’m quite sure that God doesn’t get near as bent out of shape about the topic as you people seem to get! (huge grin)

God bless us all!
Lisa

Am I reading you right keepingfaith,by understanding your post to be saying that you believe all remarriages to be no less than adulterous relationships? Moreover that such relationships are even worse and more abominable 'than sodomy(homosexuality)', and others who practice any other type of sexual perversion?

If so,what would your counsel be to such persons?

Also,why do you call them christians?

You said, "Just because christians remarry...".

Awaiting your reply.

Many times threads explode between brothers and sisters, many times these threads have been "hit and run" threads, by that i meen a new member comes on the forums and creates a thread on a controversial subject. It may be on a truth they discovered or a conviction they feel an urge to share or something else, they may be very sincere in their motives.

I see this thread has all the potential to go into a sad discussion that will shame christians worldwide and the testimony of Jesus. Or if those that chose to participate would try by Gods grace to communicate their wisdom and zeal in love and fear of God. This thread could be very fruitful to perhaps thousands of readers.

So i urge all who have a burden for this topic to kindly meditate some on what you are posting and judge every word carefully.

I don't know if you read me right, but it doesn't appear so though. But, you don't have to read anything I say- I posted several scriptures from the first 3 gospels that are usually printed in red, did I not?
The real question would be:
Did you read those scriptures that I posted at all? What was ambiguous about what Jesus Himself said?
7 TIMES! HE LINKED DIVORCE, THAT WAS THEN FOLLOWED BY A SUBSEQUENT "REMARRIAGE" with the ACT OR COMMISSION OF ADULTERY ( a sexual act of defrauding another married person's spouse).

How do you counsel anyone who is committing a sexual sin? What do say to a pedophile who anally rapes a small child?- do you sugar coat it, and justify why it would be inappropriate to confront something so blatantly evil?
No because remarriage is esteemed by christians (fake ones) but pedophilia and sodomy are looked at as somehow different because of the warped standard of righteousness that people in churches use.

Look at Luke 16:18 where Jesus said EVERYONE WHO DIVORCES in context

Luke 16: 14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable (HATED, ABOMINABLE) in the sight of God.

16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

christians -self proclaimed,...

(I call them christians because they call themselves that not because they are actually following or serving Him- they are of their father the devil)-
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:

(These people are obviously "practicing" adultery which is sin therefore making them satan's children.)

anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.)

...divorce their spouses by COVENANT:

Gal. 3:15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.

THEN ENTER INTO ILLICIT UNIONS BEFORE AN ASSEMBLY OF WITNESSES IN A CHURCH BUILDING. These "unions" are highly esteemed and honored BUT JESUS SAYS THAT GOD HATES THEM AND THEY ARE ABOMINABLE TO HIM.
Now if you want truth go and listen to the interview I directed you to listen to, to find out on your own why God is not sanctifying a single remarriage where a covenant spouse ( first marriage for both parties) is still living.

These people are not believers they are rebels and adulterous whores and whore-mongers according to the scriptures they emptily profess to believe.
Hope that clears that up for you, Savannah
It's 100% true.
Now I am waiting to see if you will acknowledge what Jesus plainly stated about everyone who does such and such...
or instead, I will see your reply filled with scriptures that refute me, thereby proving that what He said really doesn't mean what I have so horribly misapplied.
yeah, this just another trivial (adultery) matter that doesn't merit any real consensus among people who name Christ as Lord. Would we be having this discussion on whether or not sodomy is sinful?- No we wouldn't, but here is something else to ponder:
Jesus did not mention a man lying with another man even once in the gospels, but I just showed you where He gave more material on the topic of divorce AND REMARRIAGE BEING ADULTEROUS, than there is on the virgin birth! Believing the truth on marriage will cost you everything- believing Jesus was born of a virgin will cost you nothing!

Listen to the interview - I cannot do it justice by summarizing it on this forum.