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A queston

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sermonindex

Legend says that on the eve of the communist revolution in Russia the Russian Orthodox Church was having a debate. It was said they were debating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. I don't know who won the debate. The communist were too busy killing Russian Orthodox Christians.

So what, you say, just a story. As we debate which is the most pure translation of scripture or is God 2 persons, do you hear that call to prayer 5 times a day? Do you perhaps see a mineret out your window? Just a question.

E
enid

martyr,

I see, hear and feel your question. And you know, even with you saying that, it will stir up others to begin a debate here. Don't ask me how that happens, but it does.

As for the threads which you refer to, I don't even bother to read them myself. What for? Where is the edification, or the challenge to lead a godly life?

God bless.

S
sermonindex

Well said, my sister. Still I hope that little post may cause sone, inuding myself to think. Blessings to you. Blaine

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I know there are some threads that build up and edify. We just have to hunt for them. Some of the Devotional threads have been good. Lord willing. I will keep my own post short, sweet, and simple. Blessings to you, Enid.

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sermonindex

Enid,

The manner of your questioning is pleasing, at least here.

As far as whether God is two persons,currently the vagueness remains until the conclusion of that matter. . .if there can ever be one; but, it's like jimp says, "if you are able to define God, your God is too small."

That thread was intended to encourage readers to take active interest in searching scripture to better acquaint themselves with the true character and nature of God.

It was not designed to make anybody mad or outraged; but, rather to help with a clearer picture about God's revelation of Himself as revealed through the scripture.

Personally, i have only been able to go so far in this understanding, then step back in awe and worship.

Currently the purpose of this thread is to tear down illegitimate conceptions and replace them wih a scriptural basis.

After that mission is accomplished, it's hoped all of us together can move towards a clearer revelation from God's word greater tahn any of us individually has come to.


The responses to your Q,from personal perspective of many threads participated in seem to indicate two things most recognizably:
--many come here with the intent of this being an entertainment forum or to be bibbed and spoon-fed.

There is no wrong in this as long as we share in what we have walked in along the way. Sure there may be rebuke and correction; but there is also encouragement and exhortation.
Anybody who chooses one over the other has a lopsided perspective of this faith(fulness) in our Lord Jesus.

Still remaining a bit vague:
No God is not two persons and he certainly is not three. God is one (in both senses of the Hebrew words for one).
(What was just stated will probably confuse, so check it out in your local Bible and find what was just meant.)

That thread was intended to make us all (myself included)consider and recognize God for who He says He really is and not simply accept the machinations of theosophers whose assumptions step beyond the revelation of scripture.
(God calls such assumptions idolatry.)


God bless you all
in your quest
as long as you
sojourn this dirtball.
g'day!

Love, Hope, and Faithfulness,
gregg

S
sermonindex

martyr and Enid,

The manner of your questionings is pleasing, at least here.

As far as whether God is two persons,currently the vagueness remains until the conclusion of that matter. . .if there can ever be one; but, it's like jimp says, "if you are able to define God, your God is too small."

That thread was intended to encourage readers to take active interest in searching scripture to better acquaint themselves with the true character and nature of God.

It was not designed to make anybody mad or outraged; but, rather to help with a clearer picture about God's revelation of Himself as revealed through the scripture.

Personally, i have only been able to go so far in this understanding, then step back in awe and worship.

Currently the purpose of this thread is to tear down illegitimate conceptions and replace them wih a scriptural basis.

After that mission is accomplished, it's hoped all of us together can move towards a clearer revelation from God's word greater tahn any of us individually has come to.


The responses to your Q,from personal perspective of many threads participated in seem to indicate two things most recognizably:
--many come here with the intent of this being an entertainment forum or to be bibbed and spoon-fed.

There is no wrong in this as long as we share in what we have walked in along the way. Sure there may be rebuke and correction; but there is also encouragement and exhortation.
Anybody who chooses one over the other has a lopsided perspective of this faith(fulness) in our Lord Jesus.

Still remaining a bit vague:
No God is not two persons and he certainly is not three. God is one (in both senses of the Hebrew words for one).
(What was just stated will probably confuse, so check it out in your local Bible and find what was just meant.)

That thread was intended to make us all (myself included)consider and recognize God for who He says He really is and not simply accept the machinations of theosophers whose assumptions step beyond the revelation of scripture.
(God calls such assumptions idolatry.)


God bless you all
in your quest
as long as you
sojourn this dirtball.
God bless us everyone.
g'day!

Love, Hope, and Faithfulness,
gregg

S
sermonindex

Back in 2011 I posted this thread when I was new to the forum. Then my handle was Martyr. Now carried by soneone else. I opened up this thead with a story or parable if you will. I will tell it again on light of current events.

On the eve of the Bolshevik Revokution the Russian Orthodox Church was said to be debating a very important question. One in which the outcome of all eternity would hang on. The question was how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. I do not who won the debate. The next day many Russian Orthodox beluevers were spilling their blood for Jesus.

I ended the original OP as asking do you hear the Islamic call to prayer?

I see history repeating itself in this forum. While some of our brethren are debatimg that all important question. You oniw the one on which eternity hangs on. Has The Church Repkaced Israrl. I wonder who will win that debate?

Probably won't natter as believers are being martyred for their faith in Christ in Anerica.

But them probabky no one has any idea of what I write here.

My thoughts

Bearmaster

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Blaine

While I agree that the question of how many angels could dance on the head of a pin is of very important eschatological significance one may say that almost
all the other topics in this forum are of equal (and much less) significance when compared to believers being martyred.
And if that is the case then what would be the point of discussing anything else.

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sermonindex

Blaine, you may be surprised but I agree with the Rev. This is a discussion forum open to many topics. I know you aren't trying to appear spiritually snobby and the things happening in the world are really bothering you. I do understand.

With that said, I don't hear any major media mentioning that the party in San Bernadino was a CHRISTMAS party. HELLO!!

I may be wrong, if I am, I will be happy to stand corrected.

I think there were some Christians possibly martyred.

We need to really intercede for the President. Why? First because his soul is precious, and second because he has an incredible influence in the Muslim community and the Black community.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Tim 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

Paul wasn't gung-ho to be a martyr. He said intercede for "kings" and all who are in authority "SO THAT we may lead a quiet and peaceable life..."

Mr. Obama's influence is great and he sends clear messages to some and mixed messages to others. He ordered the space agency to take as a primary mission outreach to muslims. He refuses to recognize radical islamic terrorists. He said, "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam” and "The sweetest sound I know is the muslim call to prayer.” The FBI has called San Bernardino the second largest islamic terrorist massacre since 911 and our President refuses to call it what the FBI calls it. These are very bad signs and only bolster the radical islamic extremists and put many more Americans and Christians in danger of martyrdom.

I see where a another terrorist incident happened in the subway of England.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/624571/machete-attack-Leytonstone-Syria

These will continue to happen if mixed signals are sent out which enable these people to do heinous acts.

We should not have leaders implicitly encouraging bad actors by giving coded "shout-outs" to them or looking the other way or watering their actions down. This is not a good recipe for "leading a quiet and peaceable life".

P
proudpapa

Bear,

I think you relieze that most, if not all of the posters on this forum feel that the "Day of the Lord is drawing nearer"

How these end times events might play out is of much interest to many of us, and of much concern that many professing christians will be greatly decieved.

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sermonindex

That is exactly right, proudpapa.

Bear, the recent discussion on Israel, talks about serious ramifications and has far reaching consequences for the Christian church in these last days. Things that cannot be ignored and will cause many needless deaths if the church falls under the strong delusion of 2 Thess 2.

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sermonindex

Brothers my intention for resurrecting this thread was not to be as Julia said spiritually snobby. But to remind us that painful things are happening in the world. It is safer and less painful to discuss, and perhaps to argue theology.

Yes this is a discussion forum. And a forum that is to promote christ-centered revival. Yet when the tragedy occurred in Charleston South Carolina where 9 precious souls were martyred. Nothing was posted in the forum. Or at least nothing I could see on the board. When several students were martyred for their faith in Roseburg OR nothing was posted on the board.

I did see there were three post regarding the tragedy in California. But beyond that very little said. I simply make the above observations because the martyrdom of the saints in our nation should drive us to our knees and cry for a movement of God spirit.

But I say respectfully that it is far easier to debate theology. Then to face the painful martyrdom of our brothers and sisters in this land. And perhaps far easier to debate theology then a be on our knees crying for a movenent of God's Spirit acrosd America.

Again these are respectfully and simply my thoughts.

O
Oracio

Yes this is a discussion forum. And a forum that is to promote christ-centered revival. Yet when the tragedy occurred in Charleston South Carolina where 9 precious souls were martyred. Nothing was posted in the forum. Or at least nothing I could see on the board. When several students were martyred for their faith in Roseburg OR nothing was posted on the board.

Ok brother, I’ll be the brave one to speak on behalf of some of us here. I would suggest that the reason some of us refrain from posting about certain news events is because we are skeptical as to what is the actual truth behind those events. After finding that there have been many false flag attacks and/or plans of them we have come to a place where we question every "big” event like this. I think there is ample evidence to warrant such skepticism. We just do not know what to believe anymore. Here are just two examples of what I’m talking about, and these are examples of even the mainstream media admitting to some of these things after several years:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1aDciHCejA

I think some of us just don’t want to post our concerns about these "events” because we are afraid of being seen as misled conspiracy theorists.

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sermonindex

Oracio 9 believers slain inside of a church hardly constitutes conspiracy. The gunman was a racist. But he could have easily been a jihadist. Nonetheless the spiritual dynamic behind the attack was demonic. The end of Revelation 12 tells us that the enemy is making war against the followers of the Lamb. What occurred in Charleston South Carolina happens other parts of the world. Again brother nothing conspiratorial here.

Regarding Roseburg Oregon. Witnesses said the students were asked by the gunman what their religion was. If they profess to be a Christian they were executed. Again a demonic dynamic behind this attack. Again hardly conspiratorial.

If there is conspiracy. It is the ongoing war of Satan against the Bride of Christ.

My thoughts bro. Appreciate your response.

Bear

D
dohzman

Mat 5:43
\tYe have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.

Mat 5:44
\tBut I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite fully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45
\tThat ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46
\tFor if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 5:47
\tAnd if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 5:48
\tBe ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


I think some of us just don’t want to post our concerns about these "events” because we are afraid of being seen as misled conspiracy theorists. AMEN!


As the days got closer to the fulfillment of Jesus' prophesy over Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple it was said that one could not even go anywhere in the city without hearing warnings of impending doom, I think knowing history sometimes helps with the present.

No matter what Jesus gave us principles that would help instruct us regardless what was happening around us,We certainly know the end of the story, some day we will be back here and rule and reign with Him. I do think that the warnings will start to come more often, like birth pains. That would be consistent with God s pattern, He does nothing except first He reveals it to His servants the prophets, unfortunately in this country there are sOOOOoooo many prophetic ministries that are in it for the money that the truth is just plain hard to see.

O
Oracio

Brother bear, my reply would be, so the mainstream media has said, but whose to say they haven't lied, whether intentionally or unintentionally. When 9/11 first happened Bush Jr. and the media tried to claim that Hussain was behind it and that he had weapons of mass destruction. After the Iraqi invasion Bush and the media admitted that Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 and that there were no such weapons.

I would encourage you to look into the supposed Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, beginning with the CNN interview of Robbie Parker. And tell me if you think you'd be smiling and cracking jokes on TV (with no tears) the day after your 6 yr old little girl was brutally murdered.

Thanks for your respectful reply.

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sermonindex

Brother D. I agree. There are many so-called prophetic ministries that are in it for the money. And just to assure you brother I do not consider myself a profit. And my main source of income is Social Security Disability. & a modest retirement check from the state of Arkansas.

Thank you for your reply dear brother.

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sermonindex

Indeed a ratio. I would not be cracking jokes if I had lost a 6 year old daughter. Just as I'm not cracking jokes over those who have been slain in California. Brother let us keep these and others that have been so impacted by tragedy in our prayers.

O
Oracio

Bear, there are many discrepancies regarding this latest event in California as well as the event in Oregon, but I won't get into it right here. I do lean toward there being real victims in these two latest events but I do not buy what the media has said about them. Indeed, if there were indeed real victims my prayers go out for the families. Again, I don't think it's unreasonable to say "if" after so much corruption and lies coming from the government and mainstream media. What I do know for sure is that Christians are being martyred around the globe and that things are heating up in the west, and there seems to be a huge push for gun control/confiscation and Marshal Law. May we be prepared for whatever may come our way in the coming days.

T
TMK

Oracio-

You are throwing me for a bit of a loop. Are you suggesting that the recent terror attack in San Bernardino and the shooting at the Sandy Hook school never happened?

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sermonindex

Todd I don't think Oratio is denying the reality of these events occurring. But that the mainstream media is not telling us the truth of what really occurred in these tragic events.

It was reported that someone came to Smith Wigglesworth with a newspaper to visit him. This brother told the visitor you are welcome to come here in. But leave the pack of lies outside. He met the newspaper. :-)

Breaux Bear

T
TMK

Quote: "Indeed, if there were indeed real victims my prayers go out for the families. Again, I don't think it's unreasonable to say "if" after so much corruption and lies coming from the governnent"

I agree the media is corrupt but it would take more than the media to cover up that there were no victims of these shootings. That is extreme fringe conspiracy- ism.

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sermonindex

by Oracio on 2015/12/6 17:06:39

I would encourage you to look into the supposed Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, beginning with the CNN interview of Robbie Parker. And tell me if you think you'd be smiling and cracking jokes on TV (with no tears) the day after your 6 yr old little girl was brutally murdered.

Hmmmm, I see what you mean, Oracio. Robbie Parker does look disturbingly happy one day after his daughter's death.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robbie+parker

O
Oracio

TMK, the Sandy Hook event has all the marks of a straight up elaborate hoax. What makes you think your government couldn't have possibly staged such a thing and paid crisis actors and sent them into a protective program. It wasn't just Robbie Parker that showed no real grief when being interviewed though he was the most obvious one. There is so much of other types of evidence pointing to it being a hoax. Looking into Sandy Hook convinced me to be skeptical of these events, there was too much evidence to ignore.

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I think the forum and everyone on it should utterly refute the madness of Oracio's post. This gives an insight into the mind of the poster, wow. God help us all when Christians makes these kinds of statements publicly...........bro Frank

M
MaryJane


Having lived in CT at the time, and knowing people personally who lost loved ones and friends, I can sadly tell you Sandy Hook was all too real. Ocracio what you have posted is in very poor judgement on a Christian forum. I have no words to write more except to say I will be in prayer for you.

Maryjane

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Oracio I was taken aback by your last post. I have to agree with Mary Jane that Sandy Hook was all too real. There were real people that lost children in the midst of that tragedy. Again our prayers should go out to them.

Oratio I say this with love brother. Your last post was out of line. Particularly with those who lost children in that tragedy.

Blaine

O
Oracio

Wow, I guess faith in this government is stronger here than I thought. Will have to disagree with those sentiments. My undivided faith must be in Christ alone, not in the corrupt governments of this world system. I retain my stance re sandy hook until I am shown real evidence otherwise. God bless.

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sermonindex

Saints I brought this thread back on the board to inform us, to remind us that tragedies are taking place in this nation. To remind us that people's lives are being lost. To remind us that brothers and sisters are spilling their blood for Jesus even on our shores. To suggest that these tragedies are orchestrated by the government not only dishonors the victims. But frankly it's just something of the theatre of the absurd. That was not the intention of this thread.

I ask anyone with reason. The tragedy that befell 9 saints in a church in Charleston South Carolina. Was this a governmental hoax to remove our guns. Or was this some demonic crazy young man filled with hatred for blacks. Who wanted to start a race war. I believe if we are spiritually perceptive this young man was demonically crazed who wanted to take the lives of nine precious saints. After he had been welcomed into their church. I challenge anyone to tell the victims of those families that this is a governmental hoax. To their credit the families did extend forgiveness to the gunman who took the lives of their loved ones.

I ask anyone with reason. The tragedy that befell several young students in Roseburg Oregon. Some martyred for their faith in response to the gunman's question are you a Christian. I asked was this a governmental plot to take away our guns. Or was this another demonic crazed gunman who wanted to take the lives of believers for Jesus.

I ask anyone with reason. Was the tragedy that occurred last week in San Bernardino California a governmental hoax to take away our guns. Or was that tragedy the result of Islamic Jihadists who set out with the evil intention to take lives. Particularly those who follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I choose to believe that it was the latter.

Brothers and sisters let us be reasonable. These tragedies are not the result of a governmental hoax. I do not believe these tragedies were staged by the federal government. But Satan working in the lives of individuals to direct them to do evil.

These are simply my thoughts. But I believe thoughts that are shaped by the word of God.

Bearmaster


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Julius wrote to Oracio:

"Hmmmm, I see what you mean, Oracio. Robbie Parker does look disturbingly happy one day after his daughter's death."

So this is another conspiracy theory that these two agree on.
First the Jews and now this insanity. Tells you something about the spirit
they share in.

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sermonindex

Oracio. Brother with respect no one is putting their faith in the government. Or at least I am not. And I do believe even at their best that governments are corrupt. Because governments are composed of corruptible men.

But brother to suggest that Sandy Hook was a hoax. Or to suggest that 9/11 was a hoax. Or any other tragedy that resulted in the taking of humanlife was a governmental hoax stretches the imagination. It also stretches human reasoning. And I'm talking about reasoning by Spirit fiiled Christiane.

Brother it is far easier for me to accept as a Spirit-filled Christian that Sandy Hook or Columbine or Rosebud or any other tragedy that occurred where the result of demonic inspired or demonic possessed individuals.

Oracio you are a street preacher. Certainly brother you have seen people who have been possessed by demons as you preach the gospel on the streets. These I believe are the same demons that inspire and direct people to take the lives of others. Brother this is a spiritual war that we are involved in. The spiritual war can only be fought with the spiritual weapons of righteousness.

Again brother simply my thoughts.

M
MaryJane

by Oracio on 2015/12/7 8:45:15

Wow, I guess faith in this government is stronger here than I thought. Will have to disagree with those sentiments. My undivided faith must be in Christ alone, not in the corrupt governments of this world system. I retain my stance re sandy hook until I am shown real evidence otherwise. God bless.

________

I hold no faith in the government of any man. My faith is in Christ JESUS alone so please do not imply other wise with broad comments like the one written above...again I will be in prayer for you.

Maryjane

S
sermonindex

The "Fast and Furious", debacle was a government operation and they were caught red-handed, so there definitely are trust issues.

S
sermonindex

Oracio writes ( and this will be the last time I respond directly to Oracio)

"Wow, I guess faith in this government is stronger here than I thought. Will have to disagree with those sentiments."

The response from Oracio was not any kind of humble reply but a false accusation created from the confused mind to try and create some kind of straw man. Neither Mary Jane or Blaine or myself hold any faith in the Government and never have had, there are a thousand previous posts to affirm that. I am with my sister MaryJane, lets pray for this man to be delivered from the madness of delusion. One thing you cannot do is argue or reason with that level of conspiracy theory...........bro Frank

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sermonindex

I wish I had the authority to lock my thread here. However that rest with Greg alone. I will voluntarily refrain from responding on this thread. I do that out of respect of the victims of Sandy Hook and other tragedies. I would respectfully ask that this thread die and go back to the archives where it belongs.

I had no intention of dishonouring the victims of those tragedies by the post that came from Oracio. My intention was simply to remind us at these tragedies are occurring. And to bring some attention to those tragedies on the forum. By hopefully encouraging prayer for those so impacted by these tragedies. This was my intention.

But what is coming forrh was not my intention. Therefore I ask let this thread die. And let us not dishonor those who have been impacted by these tragedies by saying these tragedies were hoax.

I asked God forgive me for resurrecting this thread and dishonouring those who have been impacted by Sandy Hook and other tragedies.

Mary Jane I hope you realize what came forth from this thread was never my intention you.

Please let this thread die and be buried.

Respectfully.

Blaine

O
Oracio

But brother to suggest that Sandy Hook was a hoax. Or to suggest that 9/11 was a hoax. Or any other tragedy that resulted in the taking of humanlife was a governmental hoax stretches the imagination. It also stretches human reasoning. And I'm talking about reasoning by Spirit fiiled Christiane.

Bear, I’m sure you didn’t deliberately intend to but you put words on my fingers. I never suggested that 9/11 was a hoax. That would indeed be wacko to do so. Everyone saw the planes hit the towers and saw them collapse and saw many people jumping out of windows to escape the fire and there were thousands of casualties and eye-witnesses. But I’m suggesting that Sandy Hook is way different and that there is not enough proof or evidence (from what I’ve seen so far) to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it wasn’t a hoax. The evidence seem to strongly point in the other direction.

In my first post here I shared two links which give undeniable proof of even the mainstream media admitting to corruption from this government several years after the fact. In case certain brethren did not even look at those links I will share briefly here concerning one of them and repost the link/s:

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

True story also available here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Honest question: does the above sound familiar? Plans of hijacking planes, etc. I understand that President Kennedy was assassinated not too long after he rejected that proposed false flag attack.

Now, if this government would be that willing go to such great lengths of corruption back in the 60s, do you really suppose they would or could never go to such great lengths in our day?

O
Oracio

I am deeply saddened by your comments about me but cannot be too surprised I guess.

add: especially Frank.

O
Oracio

One more thing; from my perspective, many of us do not seek to use much needed discernment when it comes to the things the mainstream media throws at us and the things going on in this evil world in which we live. We are too quick to believe everything we see and hear on the mainstream TV news. After all, they could never lie, right? It’s much easier to go with the flow and not question anything the mainstream news says. Then you’re considered to be "normal” by society at large. But you better not start using discernment and questioning certain things lest you suffer the consequence of being accused of being an extreme conspiracy theorist. I guess in this case, ignorance is bliss to a certain extent. So in the end, I guess I do have to understand why many would be so outraged at certain things being questioned.

S
sermonindex

This is what I was referring to, earlier.

The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public
http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5?op=1

"If the NDAA goes into effect in its current form, the State Department and Pentagon can go beyond manipulating mainstream media outlets and directly disseminate campaigns of misinformation to the U.S. public."

(I believe it did go into effect in it's "current form").

Even Henry Kissinger supports the United States becoming part of the international system. "social upheaval and mass civil unrest are to be used as a means of merging the US into an "international system”.

Kissinger, in an interview with Charlie Rose, "cited the chaos being wrought across the globe by the financial crisis and the spread of terrorism as an opportunity to bolster a new global order. I think that when the new administration assesses the position in which it finds itself it will see a huge crisis and terrible problems, but I can see that it could see a glimmer in which it could construct an international system out of it.”, Kissinger told Rose.

Kissinger's comments are ominously similar to Alexander Wendt's paper.

WHY A WORLD STATE IS INEVITABLE: TELEOLOGY AND THE LOGIC OF ANARCHY
Alexander Wendt
University of Chicago
http://www.comw.org/qdr/fulltext/03wendt.pdf

A quote from this paper:
"Nationalist struggles for recognition are by no means over, and more new states- "more anarchy”- may yet be created. But while further fragmentation is in one sense a step back, it is also a precondition for moving forward, since it is only when difference is recognized that a larger identity can be stable. (…) Far from suppressing nationalism, a world state will only be possible if it embraces it.”

Along with the NDAA authorization to propagandize the American people (such as Pravda does to the Russian people), this is all very eery.

At least we know their goals and that they will use any propaganda they deem fit. I don't think the Defense Dept. has ever worried about the Smith-Mundt act, anyway. The amount of propaganda released upon the American people since 1913 is staggering.

S
sermonindex

Only the Spirit of God and the Word of God can be trusted.

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes." (Psa_118:8)

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against HIS ANOINTED, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." (Psa 2:1-4)

O
Oracio

Only the Spirit of God and the Word of God can be trusted.

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes." (Psa_118:8)

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against HIS ANOINTED, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." (Psa 2:1-4)


Amen, thanks for that encouragement and reminder from the Scriptures.

S
sermonindex

Oracio,

I am in a specific engineering field and I can tell you everything can be manipulated coming through the screen whether it is TV or Internet. This you know, very well. No one really knows what is true today unless they were there, themselves or had trusted friends/family, there.

To act like we know what happened just because we saw it on the screen is, well, I'll let the audience fill in the blank.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Oracio,

In what ways do you think that this was a hoax? I know someone who had a relative who died at Sandy Hook Elementary. Do you suggest that the killings did not take place or are you suggesting that individuals in the government killed those people? Upon what evidence do you base your theory?

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sermonindex

Then Julius go to the third page of this thread. Scroll down to Mary Jane's post. She lived in Connecticut at the time of Sandy Hook. She knew people who had lost loved ones there. To those people Sandy Hook was a real event.


Blaine

T
TMK

You can go on Wikipedia and other sources to read all about the sandy hook conspiracy theories and their debunking.

I suggest we let that discussion die here as bear requested.

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sermonindex

by bearmaster on 2015/12/7 15:42:01

Then Julius go to the third page of this thread. Scroll down to Mary Jane's post. She lived in Connecticut at the time of Sandy Hook. She knew people who had lost loved ones there. To those people Sandy Hook was a real event.

Bear, I don't know if you caught it or not, but I said, unless you were there or someone you trust was there, you really don't know what happened by looking at a screen. I did not weigh in on Sandy Hook for or against. I just so the video on Robbie Parker and was mystified at his jovialness and then when the cameras were on him, he went immediately into a somber mood. That seemed weird to me. But, it came through the screen so maybe it was doctored to make Robbie look bad. Who knows?

add: I don't know Mary or Chris.

O
Oracio

Regarding Maryjane’s friends, the first thing I’d be interested to know is exactly how many friends were talking about. The second thing is if they were born again Christians. Like I stated, I am open to changing my mind on Sandy Hook if I can see enough evidence, especially from born again believers.

O
Oracio

Also, what was the exact relation between them?

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sermonindex

Ooracio respectfulky Mary Jane has far more knowledge about Sandy Hook then either you or I or Julius or anybody else in this forum.

Blaine

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Oratio and Julus. Just curious bros. Are y'all cessationists.

Bear

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sermonindex

On the contrary!

Didn't you already ask that question?

By the way, excellent article on the role and power of television.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038788_Sandy_Hook_questions_skepticism.html

You can't blame people for being skeptical with some of these television performances.

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sermonindex

Oops! Double post, sorry.

O
Oracio

Exactly Julius. I would compare this government and the media to the boy who cried wolf. After so much corruption and lies, the default mindset of many of us when it comes to certain events is, guilty until proven innocent, and rightly so I believe.

P
proudpapa

Did the CIA secretly dose people with LSD?
Author
Evan Andrews

The hippies and other counterculture movements weren’t the only groups to experiment with mind-altering substances. Starting in 1953, the Central Intelligence Agency conducted research on psychedelic drugs as part of a top-secret behavior modification program codenamed MKULTRA. This bizarre project saw the CIA undertake an extensive””and ethically dubious””series of psychological experiments involving hypnosis, shock therapy, interrogation and hallucinogens like LSD.

MKULTRA’s LSD experiments were initially done on willing volunteers””novelist Ken Kesey was a famous participant””but they later took a more sinister turn. The CIA believed that a tasteless, odorless compound like LSD might be used as a truth serum or psychological weapon in the cloak-and-dagger operations of the Cold War, and they even concocted schemes to dose Cuban leader Fidel Castro. To observe the effects of the drug on unwitting subjects, they secretly administered LSD to hundreds of mental patients, prisoners, foreign nationals and private American citizens without their consent. In one particularly audacious eight-year program called "Operation Midnight Climax,” the agency set up a string of brothels in San Francisco. Prostitutes would dose their unsuspecting clients, and CIA agents would then monitor the men’s behavior from behind two-way mirrors. These government acid tests would continue through most of the 1950s and early 1960s, but the mind-bending effects of LSD were ultimately deemed too unpredictable and unwieldy for use in the field. Many of the test subjects experienced adverse psychological reactions, and at least one””a biochemist named Frank Olson””died under mysterious circumstances only days after ingesting the drug.

Project MKULTRA was scaled back extensively and then terminated in the late 1960s, but the CIA later destroyed most of the program’s records in 1973. A cache of surviving documents relating to the agency’s "mind control” program was eventually discovered and revealed to the public in 1977, but the full extent of the government’s psychedelic experimentation remains uncertain.

http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/did-the-cia-secretly-dose-people-with-lsd


C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Oracio,


....guilty until proven innocent, and rightly so I believe.

I'll ask these questions again:

In what ways do you think that this was a hoax?

Do you suggest that the killings did not take place or are you suggesting that individuals in the government killed those people?

Upon what evidence do you base this theory?

S
sermonindex

by Oracio on 2015/12/7 18:53:19

Exactly Julius. I would compare this government and the media to the boy who cried wolf. After so much corruption and lies, the default mindset of many of us when it comes to certain events is, guilty until proven innocent, and rightly so I believe.

Oh man, you put it so well.

My "flesh" has the following fatigues:

media fatigue
government "alerts" fatigue
melodramatic fatigue
sensational TV fatigue
insincerity fatigue
duplicity fatigue
dissimulation fatigue
protests fatigue
Political Correctness fatigue
"we must protect you" fatigue
"gun control" fatigue

The Enemy uses the world to fatigue you into submission/compliance.

But our spirits can be strong in the Lord. Thank God there is an antidote for all of this. Truth, Grace, Peace and REST in Christ.

P
proudpapa

The Reichstag Fire

On February 27, 1933, the German parliament (Reichstag) building burned down due to arson. The government falsely portrayed the fire as part of a Communist effort to overthrow the state.

Using emergency constitutional powers, Adolf Hitler’s cabinet had issued a Decree for the Protection of the German People on February 4, 1933. This decree placed constraints on the press and authorized the police to ban political meetings and marches, effectively hindering electoral campaigning. A temporary measure, it was followed by a more dramatic and permanent suspension of civil rights following the February 27 burning of the parliament building.

Though the origins of the fire are still unclear, in a propaganda maneuver, the coalition government (Nazis and the German Nationalist People's Party) blamed the Communists. They exploited the Reichstag fire to secure President von Hindenburg’s approval for an emergency decree, the Decree for the Protection of the People and the State of February 28. Popularly known as the Reichstag Fire Decree, the regulations suspended the right to assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and other constitutional protections, including all restraints on police investigations.

Justified on the false premise that the Communists were planning an uprising to overthrow the state, the Reichstag Fire Decree permitted the regime to arrest and incarcerate political opponents without specific charge, dissolve political organizations, and to suppress publications. It also gave the central government the authority to overrule state and local laws and overthrow state and local governments.

The Nazi press described the Reichstag fire as the work of the Communists and a signal for their planned uprising. Even the US independent Fox Movie Tones newsreel reflected the German government version. Although the Communists had not, in fact, developed any plans for an uprising, the impact of propaganda and terror on existing fears of a Communist takeover convinced many Germans that Hitler’s decisive action had saved the nation from "Bolshevism.”

Within months, for example, the Nazi regime destroyed Germany’s previously vigorous free press. By 1941, the Nazi Party’s Eher publishing house had become the largest ever in German history, and its main daily newspaper, the Völkischer Beobachter (The National Observer) had reached a circulation of over 1,000,000.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007657

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Oracio

Chris, I do not have the time to start posting all kinds of links to all kinds of evidence at this moment, or to get into lengthy details. If you want you can email me and when I get a chance I'll share with you in more detail my reasons for questioning this event. I think for starters Robbie Parkers interview is a valid reason to be skeptical. I didn't mention that on the very evening of the event he also gave a lengthy speech at a Mormon church. I don't know about you but I can't see how anyone could give a speech like that on the very same day that their 6 yr old daughter is murdered. I would be devastated to say the least.

add: and then to go on TV the next day and be smiling and cracking jokes; come on man, what's up with that?

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Oracio,

Thanks for the reply. Still, I am interested in just what way you think that the Sandy Hook shootings was a hoax (i.e., Do you think that it actually happened or do you think that the government killed the victims?).

Like I said, I know someone who had a relative killed in that shooting. I have no reason to doubt this person either.

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sermonindex

If you want to see how the legal, business, faith-based and cultural foundations of the U.S. are methodically being destroyed, no one uncovers conspiracies and proves them as fact better than Judicial Watch.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/

Scroll through a few pages and fasten your emotional seatbelt.

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sermonindex

Oracio and Julius.

There was a reason I asked if you all were cessationists. I did not get a clear answer on that. But I would like to draw some parallels.

You meet a former Muslim who has come to Christ through a vision of the Lord Jesus Christ. This brother is convinced that he has had a credible experience, an encounter with the living God. This encounter has had an impact on his life. However you hold to a theology of cessationism. You are convinced that this man is the victim of a hoax. You try hard to convince him that his experience was a delusion. You keep telling him that he is the victim of a hoax. Yet this man knows that event he experienced is true.It happened in time and space. Nothing can convince him otherwise. The burden of proof rest on you to prove this man's experience to be false. Yet you have no credible evidence to prove his experience to be false.

This is the same with Sandy Hook. The event actually happened in time and space. The event impacted the lives of people. The testimony of people confirm this event happen. People's lives were impacted. But they were impacted in the most grievous horrible way. Two people in this forum have testified that they knew people who were impacted by this tragic event. I believe it is very shameful to the victims of this tragedy to suggest that the grief that they experience was a result of a governmental hoax. This I think this is taken conspiracy theory to the lowest denominator.

If anybody in this forum had lost a child at Sandy Hook or any other tragic event. Imagine how they would feel to hear someone say their child was actually the victim of a hoax.

I challenge anybody in this forum to call Sandy Hook. For that matter call their parents. And if you have the guts tell them that really what occurred. That what they went through was some hoax orchestrated by the government. And then come back to this forum and report the results.

If anybody has any decency in this forum. This discussion should be put the rest out of respect for those that have lost loved ones. But then maybe decency of something this forum does not have.

I have tried to be conciliatory in my responses. But I believe that this conspiracy theory has been taken to an extreme. And it is disrespecting those who have lost loved ones.

Is that this discussion be put the rest. About the memory of those who have lost loved ones not be tarnished are disrespected by the lies of a hoax.

I am also writing Greg and ask him that he lock this thread down.

Blaine Scogin


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Oracio

Chris, I'm on my phone out and about but I'll try to briefly answer your question. From what I gathered back when I looked into it it seemed like there were likely no deaths, bottom line. Again, I'm open to changing my mind if I see enough evidence. My concern is with this sentiment of outrage against me, as if I have no valid reasons for being skeptical.

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sermonindex

by bearmaster on 2015/12/7 20:59:18

Oracio and Julius.

There was a reason I asked if you all were cessationists. I did not get a clear answer on that. But I would like to draw some parallels.

You meet a former Muslim who has come to Christ through a vision of the Lord Jesus Christ. This brother is convinced that he has had a credible experience, an encounter with the living God. This encounter has had an impact on his life. However you hold to a theology of cessationism. You are convinced that this man is the victim of a hoax. You try hard to convince him that his experience was a delusion. You keep telling him that he is the victim of a hoax. Yet this man knows that event he experienced is true.It happened in time and space. Nothing can convince him otherwise. The burden of proof rest on you to prove this man's experience to be false. Yet you have no credible evidence to prove his experience to be false.

What do you think my response communicates? I said, "on the contrary."

Surely, you know what that means. "Just the opposite!"

Respectfully, your parallel is not very good. You just came back here so you have not seen where I have spoken about the dreams and visions Muslims are having or being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Don't be so quick to judge, my brother.

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sermonindex

Sorry Julius. I apologize. You and a Oratio seem to be an agreement on SandyHook and other issues. I assumeed you both were Calvinistic and cessationists. I was quick to judge. Again I apologize.

But I think the analogy holds. I believe Ravenhill said that the person with an experience is not at the mercy of the one who has an argument. There are those who were tragically impacted by Sandy Hook. There are those who lost loved ones particular children in that tragedy. I doubt very seriously if anybody can convince them that Sandy Hook was a hoax.

Blaine

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sermonindex

I thought there was something in the Sermonindex Guidelines about posting conspiracy theories. If so. Then the direction of this thread has really gone out of line of the guidelines.

Blaine

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sermonindex

by Oracio on 2015/12/7 21:13:09

My concern is with this sentiment of outrage against me, as if I have no valid reasons for being skeptical.

Blane, I never said it was a hoax, I am just wondering why it seems to be wrong to have questions and doubts?

The outrage does seem "over the top." What is the explanation for it?

The world bullies people into not disagreeing with them. Christians should not engage in this same activity. There is something wrong with that.

I am not saying it did or did not happen. I am commenting on the lack of grace lately in wanting to shut people up whenever some disagree. Christians of all people should be forbearing and patient and let others make their case or have their doubts and never, ever attack anyone verbally or physically.

That's all I'm going to say. Close this thread if you wish.

P
proudpapa

Manhattan Project

a weapon that atomic scientists had nicknamed "Gadget." The nuclear age began on July 16, 1945, when it was detonated in the New Mexico desert.Early in 1939, the world's scientific community discovered that German physicists had learned the secrets of splitting a uranium atom. Fears soon spread over the possibility of Nazi scientists utilizing that energy to produce a bomb capable of unspeakable destruction.

Scientists Albert Einstein, who fled Nazi persecution, and Enrico Fermi, who escaped Fascist Italy, were now living in the United States. They agreed that the President must be informed of the dangers of atomic technology in the hands of the Axis powers. Fermi traveled to Washington in March to express his concerns on government officials. But few shared his uneasiness.


Leaving nothing to chance, Los Alamos atomic scientists conducted a pre-test test in May 1945 to check the monitoring instruments. A 100-ton bomb was exploded some 800 yards from the Trinity site where Gadget would be detonated a few weeks later.Einstein penned a letter to President Roosevelt urging the development of an atomic research program later that year. Roosevelt saw neither the necessity nor the utility for such a project, but agreed to proceed slowly. In late 1941, the American effort to design and build an atomic bomb received its code name ”” the Manhattan Project.

At first the research was based at only a few universities ”” Columbia University, the University of Chicago and the University of California at Berkeley. A breakthrough occurred in December 1942 when Fermi led a group of physicists to produce the first controlled nuclear chain reaction under the grandstands of Stagg Field at the University of Chicago.


Enrico Fermi, a physicist who left fascist Italy for America, encouraged the U.S. to begin atomic research. The result was the top-secret "Manhattan Project."After this milestone, funds were allocated more freely, and the project advanced at breakneck speed. Nuclear facilities were built at Oak Ridge, Tennessee and Hanford, Washington. The main assembly plant was built at Los Alamos, New Mexico. Robert Oppenheimer was put in charge of putting the pieces together at Los Alamos. After the final bill was tallied, nearly $2 billion had been spent on research and development of the atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project employed over 120,000 Americans.

Secrecy was paramount. Neither the Germans nor the Japanese could learn of the project. Roosevelt and Churchill also agreed that the Stalin would be kept in the dark. Consequently, there was no public awareness or debate. Keeping 120,000 people quiet would be impossible; therefore only a small privileged cadre of inner scientists and officials knew about the atomic bomb's development. In fact, Vice-President Truman had never heard of the Manhattan Project until he became President Truman.

Although the Axis powers remained unaware of the efforts at Los Alamos, American leaders later learned that a Soviet spy named Klaus Fuchs had penetrated the inner circle of scientists.


This crater in the Nevada desert was created a 104 kiloton nuclear bomb buried 635 feet beneath the surface. It is the result of a 1962 test investigating whether nuclear weapons could be used to excavate canals and harbors.By the summer of 1945, Oppenheimer was ready to test the first bomb. On July 16, 1945, at Trinity Site near Alamogordo, New Mexico, scientists of the Manhattan Project readied themselves to watch the detonation of the world's first atomic bomb. The device was affixed to a 100-foot tower and discharged just before dawn. No one was properly prepared for the result.

A blinding flash visible for 200 miles lit up the morning sky. A mushroom cloud reached 40,000 feet, blowing out windows of civilian homes up to 100 miles away. When the cloud returned to earth it created a half-mile wide crater metamorphosing sand into glass. A bogus cover-up story was quickly released, explaining that a huge ammunition dump had just exploded in the desert. Soon word reached President Truman in Potsdam, Germany that the project was successful.

The world had entered the nuclear age.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/51f.asp

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sermonindex

Good article but it misses an important link, the connection with the Bohemian Grove and the demonic powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salf-D33zmM (1min. 20)

God and prayer are our only hope against satanic forces.

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sermonindex

Saints,

I believe it is fair that a request to see this thread locked is honoured. We also ask that saints do not perpetuate or focus on conspiracy theories on this website which in the end are not fruitful nor promote biblical thinking or edification of believers in Jesus Christ in the Church.

This thread is now locked.

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