Where do demons occupy?

Hi All,I have been thinking of this over the last few days and was wondering what do you think?Its an area that I am recovering again basically to do with christians and demons.
1.Where do demons occupy?
Man is made up of body,soul and spirit.When Jesus permitted the demons to go into the herd of pigs,no spirit was involved,so it had to be body or soul or both.Hadnt it?
2.Jesus explained what happens when an evil spirit comes out of a man
Matt 12.43 "When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order.
Does this mean that a spirit can return back into a christian?
Thanks Staff

Is Jesus statement here about the evil spirit bringing seven friends supposed to be about the evil spirit? Or is Jesus using this to illustrate a bigger point? If so, what is that bigger point?

staff: I do not think it so critical that we understand exactly what part of man is inhabited or influenced or controlled or oppressed or possessed and etc. I do think it critical that we understand scriptures such as Rom 6:16-18.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

There have been a plethora of books written about demonization that range from "there is no such thing" to "look for a demon on every doorknob." The reality is that there is a spirit realm where demons can have influence on mankind. A believer can, through sin or sometimes through other influences, be influenced himself by demons. What is important is that the influence is broken by the power of God in the name of Jesus. I certainly don't want to put myself in a position where I open myself up to the demonic realm. And if I walk in the Spirit and continue in obedience and submission to Christ, I have nothing to worry about as I stand in a place where I can exercise the authority of Christ whose I am and who I trust in.

Hi Endzone,I am Irish.Thank you for your reply and everyone else as well.The reasons I want to know are:
The meetings I attended first when I was saved were healing and deliverance meetings.Many things have been said about this topic over the years and I felt during the week that I should revisit the topic and sort out a few things in my mind.A couple of things came to mind during the week and I feel like if I focus on the technical details of the subject that I will get answers.
For instance where do demons occupy?When you say the brain you are talking about the body,similar to the pigs.I am questioning whether demons can occupy a mans spirit whether he is saved or not saved.I am trying to look at it technically and scripturally.Yours Staff

Hi Everesttosama,
I think that you are right about the Holy Spirit not been roommates with demons.
What I am questioning is whether a demon can occupy a part of the body while the Holy Spirit is occupying the Spirit of a man,at least in the short term,yours Staff

Hi Twayneb,
I do think that you are right in saying that we must consider ourselves dead to sin and servants of righteousness and I am trying to understand my own experiences and how those verses marry up with demon controlled or oppressed areas etc
The whole area has got such a bad name,I feel we may have thrown out the baby with the bathwater,yours Staff

Hi Alreadymind,
I dont know what the bigger point is!but i'l have another look.yours staff

Question: "Can a Christian be demon possessed? Can a Christian be demonized?"

Answer:
While the Bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon, related biblical truths make it abundantly clear that Christians cannot be demon possessed. There is a distinct difference between being possessed by a demon and being oppressed or influenced by a demon. Demon possession involves a demon having direct/complete control over the thoughts and/or actions of a person (Matthew 17:14-18; Luke 4:33-35; 8:27-33). Demon oppression or influence involves a demon or demons attacking a person spiritually and/or encouraging him/her into sinful behavior. Notice that in all the New Testament passages dealing with spiritual warfare, there are no instructions to cast a demon out of a believer (Ephesians 6:10-18). Believers are told to resist the devil (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:8-9), not to cast him out.

Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19). Surely the Holy Spirit would not allow a demon to possess the same person He is indwelling. It is unthinkable that God would allow one of His children, whom He purchased with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19) and made into a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), to be possessed and controlled by a demon. Yes, as believers, we wage war with Satan and his demons, but not from within ourselves. The apostle John declares, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4). Who is the One in us? The Holy Spirit. Who is the one in the world? Satan and his demons. Therefore, the believer has overcome the world of demons, and the case for demon possession of a believer cannot be made scripturally.

With the strong biblical evidence that a Christian cannot be demon possessed in view, some Bible teachers use the term “demonization” to refer to a demon having control over a Christian. Some argue that while a Christian cannot be demon possessed, a Christian can be demonized. Typically, the description of demonization is virtually identical to the description of demon possession. So, the same issue results. Changing the terminology does not change the fact that a demon cannot inhabit or take full control of a Christian. Demonic influence and oppression are realities for Christians, no doubt, but it is simply not biblical to say that a Christian can be possessed by a demon or demonized.

Much of the reasoning behind the demonization concept is the personal experience of seeing someone who was “definitely” a Christian exhibiting evidence of being controlled by a demon. It is crucially important, though, that we do not allow personal experience to influence our interpretation of Scripture. Rather, we must filter our personal experiences through the truth of Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Seeing someone whom we thought to be a Christian exhibiting the behavior of being demonized should cause us to question the genuineness of his/her faith. It should not cause us alter our viewpoint on whether a Christian can be demon possessed / demonized. Perhaps the person truly is a Christian but is severely demon oppressed and/or suffering from severe psychological problems. But again, our experiences must meet the test of Scripture, not the other way around.

From www.gotquestions.org

Can the opposite question be asked, also?

What part of man does the Holy Spirit inhabit?

Body, Soul or Spirit or all 3?

In Christ,
Sarah

I am hesitant in posting this teaching by Frank Hammond because I know that many of you disagree with his ministry and do not believe that it is scriptural to cast demons out of Christians. However, I am much more concerned about Christians getting help and being set free than being opposed by those that reject this ministry.

Mike

AN INTRODUCTION TO DELIVERANCE FROM EVIL SPIRITS
by Frank Hammond

The term "deliverance" as used here encompasses both the process and the result of one's liberation from demonic bondage. Deliverance is achieved by driving out evil spirits, using the authority of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "In my name they [believers in Him] will drive out demons" Mark 16:17.

Since some who read this article may not be familiar with the scriptural grounds for deliverance, we wish to acquaint them with the basic tenets of deliverance. We also recommend several books that we and others have published on various aspects of deliverance. A list of these books, which can be ordered via postal mail, is given at the end of this article.

Deliverance Basics

The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke abound with accounts of Jesus casting demons out of people. A major part of His earthly ministry, perhaps as much as one-third, was devoted to deliverance. His purpose in becoming man, dying on the cross and conquering the grave was to defeat Satan in our behalf. "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work" I John 3:8.

Jewish religious leaders were amazed at the authority Jesus exercised over demons. They said, "He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him" Mark 1:27. He did not use incantations or any sort of paraphernalia; He merely spoke to these real yet invisible beings and they obeyed Him. "He drove out the spirits with a word..." Matt. 8.16 Furthermore, Jesus trained The Twelve plus seventy-two other disciples and commissioned them to cast out demons.

Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits...The Lord appointed seventy-two others...The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." Matt. 10:1; Luke 10:1, 17

Prior to His ascension into heaven, Jesus commissioned His Church to preach the Gospel throughout the world, confirming the Word with signs following. The first sign mentioned is deliverance: forcing demons to depart from a person in the Name of Jesus. "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons" Mark 16:15-20.

The Believer's Authority

Believers in Christ have been entrusted with a spiritual "power of attorney": authority to act in the absence and interests of Another. All authority in heaven and on earth belongs to Jesus (Matt. 28:18), and He has given us complete power over Satan and the demonic kingdom. Even though we cast out demons, the devil has no power to retaliate or harm us in any way. Jesus said: "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions, and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you" Luke 10:1

Deliverance Is For God's People

When a Gentile woman requested deliverance for her little daughter, Jesus refused her and declared that deliverance is "the children's bread" Matt. 15:26. Only after she expressed faith in Him did He comply with her request, saying, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted" Matt. 15:28. Likewise, all others, who through faith in Christ become God's children, are qualified to receive "the children's bread".

A person who has not acknowledge Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, rarely seeks or submits to deliverance. He has no interest in the provisions of the Cross. His eyes are blinded and his heart hardened. He is dead in trespasses and sins, following the ways of Satan through, "the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air" Eph. 2:1. He cannot benefit from deliverance because, without filling himself with the virtues of the Holy Spirit, the evil spirits could come back seven times stronger than before. "When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first" Matt. 12:43-45.

Can A Christian Have A Demon?

No distinction is warranted between Christians and non-Christians having demons; the New Testament makes no such distinction. Our hearts are grieved by those who contend that Christians cannot have demons, thus robbing believers of a valid ministry purchased for us by the blood of Jesus.

Can a Christian be demon possessed? Herein lies much of the confusion. "Having" demons and being "possessed" by demons are entirely different matters. Possession denotes ownership. A Christian belongs to Christ. He has been purchased by the precious blood of Jesus (I Cor. 6:19, 20).

The King James Bible, and a few other versions, have translated the Greek word daimonizomai as "demon possessed", whereas the word specifically means "to act under the control of demons". "Those who were thus afflicted expressed the mind and consciousness of the demon or demons indwelling them" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words). Christians can be influenced and controlled by demons who indwell them, but demons cannot "possess" (own) a Christian. Demons dwelling in Christians are trespassers without ownership rights; therefore, they are subject to eviction in the authority of the Name of the One who has redeemed such believers unto Himself by His blood (I Pet. 1:18).

Some have questioned, "How can an evil spirit dwell in a person who has the Holy Spirit within him?" The answer is made clear by remembering that "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" I Cor. 6:19. The Temple in Jerusalem had three parts: Outer Court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies. The presence of God dwelt solely in the Holy of Holies. The three compartments in the Temple correspond to man's tripartite being: body, soul and spirit. For the Christian, the human spirit corresponds to the Holy of Holies, which is the dwelling place of The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit desires us to submit every area of our "temple" to His control. Other temple areas include the mind, the emotions, the will and the physical body.

Jesus found defilement in the Jerusalem temple; however, the money changers and the merchants with doves and cattle were not in the Holy of Holies, but in the outer courts of the temple. Jesus proceeded to "cast out" all who defiled the temple (Matt. 21:12). This is a perfect analogy to deliverance.

Defilement is not in the spirit of a Christian but in the "outer courts" of his mind, emotions and body. There can be defilement in the Outer Court while the presence of the Lord remains in the Holy of Holies. Jesus is highly displeased with such a condition. He wants His temple cleansed and every defiling demon cast out.

Balance Is A Key Factor

Not every problem is demonic. For example, Jesus healed people without casting out demons. Not every demonic problem is exclusively demonic; there are also fleshly attitudes and activities which must be crucified. Corrupt flesh and unclean spirits are companions; you rarely find one without the other. Any one who receives valid deliverance cannot expect to retain his deliverance apart from disciplined living. His tongue, mind, emotions, will, physical appetites, finances and his spirit-man must remain rigorously disciplined. "Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control" Prov. 25:28. The enemy has ready access to the life of one whose walls of discipline are not solidly constructed.

Why Seek Deliverance?

Why should a person want deliverance for himself? Is needing relief from torment, defilement, addiction or compulsive behavior a valid motivation? We know our Lord wants us to be free from every oppressive bondage, but seeking to be conformed to Christ's likeness is always the highest motivation. We should hate everything in us that detracts from this process and gives advantage to the devil.

Prerequisites for Deliverance

The Word of God lays down three absolute prerequisites for those who seek deliverance from oppressing evil spirits.

First, one must repent of all sin. Repentance is a firm resolve in the Lord to forsake sin and turn about to walk in the ways of God. Ongoing sin in one's life is an open invitation to demons. Yielding to sin is yielding to a "whom", a person: namely, the devil. "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are the one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?" Rom. 6:16

Second, there must be unqualified forgiveness toward all others no matter what they have done, how many times they have done it, or whether they continue to offend. Forgiveness of oneself is also mandatory. Anyone who has any reservation about forgiving any other person is turned over to tormenting demons until he pays the debt of love's forgiveness. "In anger his master turned him [the unforgiving servant] over to the jailers until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart" Matt. 18:21-35 (Brackets ours).

Third, there must be a complete separation from every association no matter how casual with the occult, cults and Eastern Religions. This separation includes the destruction of all books and paraphernalia associated therewith. (Deut. 7:25-26; 18:9-13; Acts 19: 19-21).

Judged By Its Fruit

One day a group of proud, pious Pharisees challenged the validity of Jesus' deliverance ministry. They accused Him saying, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons" Matt. 12:24. In the midst of a particularly pointed response, Jesus challenged His critics with these words: "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit" Matt. 12:33. Indeed, let deliverance be judged by its fruit! After three decades in deliverance ministry on four continents, we have found that deliverance is a VERY fruitful ministry. In the books we have written, we have shared many examples of persons who have been set free from bondage in their minds, emotions and physical bodies.

Some of the most dramatic and instantly recognizable fruit of deliverance has occurred in children to whom we have ministered. Many parents have said to us, "Our child is not responsive to training, discipline or love". It is not unusual for all such negative traits to be completely reversed after only one thorough session of deliverance. This change is tangible fruit of deliverance!

It is a tremendous benefit to children when, by casting out oppressing demons, those resistant to discipline become pliable; those who could not be cuddled are now receptive to touching love; the rebellious and stubborn become governable; the devious are made trainable in truthfulness and honesty, and the restless and agitated become peaceful. Consider the quality difference that deliverance can make in a person's life.

Parents, too, are greatly benefited by the changes that deliverance makes in a child, for many frustrations and hassles are terminated.

Each child that is born into this world is a unique individual. God has designed each one with a personality all his own. One of the greatest challenges parents face is training and nurturing each child so that the full potential of his special personality is developed and channeled in the ways of God. When evil spirits hinder or block this process, conscientious parents can become perplexed and discouraged.

Children are the most valuable assets that a family, church or society has. Our objective as Christian parents and ministers should always be to lead our children to love and serve Jesus Christ so that they will not be captured by the Antichrist system of this world.

If we expect to be free from the oppression of evil spirits, we must engage in spiritual warfare, utilizing every resource which God provides. He has counseled us, "Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes" Eph. 6:10-11.

We have been given three offensive weapons by which to cast out every oppressing spirit:

The name of Jesus. "Jesus" is the name of absolute authority. His name is above all other names. The authority of Jesus' name is given to every one who believes in Him for salvation through the forgiveness of sins. Thus, every believer has the right to say to demons, "Go! In the name of Jesus", and the demons must obey.

The power in His blood. The blood that Jesus shed on the cross is incorruptible - it never dies and never loses its power. To use the blood of Jesus as a weapon, tell the devil and his demons what His blood has done for you. It has ransomed, redeemed, atoned, justified and sanctified you.

The Word of God. His Word is called "the sword of the Spirit" Eph. 6:17. We use the Word in warfare when we read or quote aloud applicable scriptures to the devil This is what Jesus did in the time of His wilderness temptations. He said, "Satan, it is written...." In times of battle against the devil, the anointing of the Holy Spirit should be sought and anticipated. The power channels for the Holy Spirit's anointing are the gifts of the Spirit. Of special importance in spiritual warfare is the gift of "discerning of spirits". By means of this gift there comes a supernatural insight in the spiritual realm so that one is able to know the presence, nature and activities of evil spirits. The gift of discerning of spirits guides the deliverance minister in his work. He need not call upon lying spirits to identify themselves, for the Holy Spirit has already revealed to him who they are. (See: Acts 1:8; I Cor. 12:7-11).

Furthermore, the gift of "faith" arms one with strength to speak to evil spirits with absolute assurance of victory over them. Jesus taught that by speaking in faith one can remove a mountain. Demons indwelling a person represent a mountainous problem that demands removal. The Bible says, "Covet earnestly the best gifts" and "desire spiritual gifts" I Cor. 12:31; 14:1.

An effective way to begin a deliverance ministry is for the person seeking deliverance to verbalize specific prayers and confessions. Such prayers will affirm the candidates relationship with Jesus Christ, make definite request of God for deliverance and serve the forces of darkness their eviction notice.

Deliverance Prayers and Confessions

General Confession & Prayer
"Lord Jesus Christ, I believe that you are the Son of God. You are the Savior come in the flesh to destroy the works of the devil. You died on the cross for my sins and rose up from the dead. I now confess all of my sins, known and unknown, and repent of each one. I ask You to forgive me and cleanse me in Your blood. I do believe that Your blood cleanses me now from all sin. Thank You for redeeming me, cleansing me, and sanctifying me in Your blood."

Forgiveness Prayer
"Lord, others have trespassed against me, but in obedience to Your command I now forgive each person who has ever hurt me in any way. As an act of my will I now forgive (name them, both living and dead). Lord, bless each of these; I love them with Your love, and I ask You to forgive them also. And since You have forgiven me, I also forgive and accept myself in the name of Jesus Christ. The curse of unforgiveness has no more power in my life."

Occult Confession Prayer
"I confess as sin and seek Your forgiveness for every occult involvement. I confess having sought from Satan the help that should only come from God. I renounce every occult activity; I renounce Satan and all his works. I loose myself from him, and I take back all the ground I ever yielded to him. I choose the blessing and not the curse. I choose life and not death."

Loosing From Domination Prayer (Breaking Soul Ties)
"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I now renounce, break and loose myself from all demonic subjection to my mother, my father, my grandparents and any other human beings, living or dead, who have dominated and controlled me in any way. I thank You, Lord, for setting me free."

Psychic Heredity and Bondage Prayer
"In the name of Jesus Christ, I now renounce, break and loose myself and my family from all hereditary curses, and from all demonic bondage placed upon us as the result of sins, transgressions or iniquities through myself, my parents or any of my ancestors. I confess the sins of my forefathers."

Loosing From Witchcraft & Related Powers
"In the name of Jesus Christ I now rebuke, break and loose myself, and my family, from any and all evil curses operating through charms, vexes, hexes, spells, omens, jinxes, psychic powers, mind control, bewitchments, witchcraft or sorcery, that have been put upon me through any person, or from any cult or occult source. I command all such demonic powers to leave me in the name of Jesus. I am the head and not the tail. I am above and not beneath."

Come To Jesus, The Deliverer, Prayer
"I come to you, Jesus, as my Deliverer. You know all my problems -- the things that bind me, that torment me, that defile and harass me. I now loose myself from every dark spirit, from every evil influence, from every satanic bandage, from every spirit in me that is not the Spirit of God, and I command all such spirits to leave me now, in the name of Jesus Christ. I now confess that my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, redeemed, cleansed and sanctified by the blood of Jesus. Therefore, Satan has no place in me, and no power over me, through the blood of Jesus."

Breaking Curses Confession
"In the name of Jesus Christ I confess all the sins of my forefathers, and by the redemptive blood of Jesus, I now break the power of every curse passed down to me through my ancestral line. I confess and repent of each and every sin that I have committed, known or unknown, and accept Christ's forgiveness. He has redeemed me from the curse of the law. I choose the blessing and reject the curse. In the name of my Lord Jesus Christ, I break the power of every evil curse spoken against me. I cancel the force of every prediction spoken about me, whether intentionally or carelessly, that was not according to God's promised blessings. I bless those who have cursed me. I forgive each person who has ever wronged me or spoken evil of me. In the name of Jesus, I command every evil spirit of curse to leave me now."

Commitment to Christ
"Heavenly Father, I am your child, redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus. You have given me life, and I now give my life to you. My heart's desire is to glorify your Name. I am an ambassador for Christ and a minister of reconciliation. In Your strength I will love, obey and serve You all the days of my life. Amen!"

Back to the original post:

"Hi All,I have been thinking of this over the last few days and was wondering what do you think?Its an area that I am recovering again basically to do with christians and demons.
1.Where do demons occupy?
Man is made up of body,soul and spirit.When Jesus permitted the demons to go into the herd of pigs,no spirit was involved,so it had to be body or soul or both.Hadnt it?"

"Some have questioned, "How can an evil spirit dwell in a person who has the Holy Spirit within him?" The answer is made clear by remembering that "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" I Cor. 6:19. The Temple in Jerusalem had three parts: Outer Court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies. The presence of God dwelt solely in the Holy of Holies. The three compartments in the Temple correspond to man's tripartite being: body, soul and spirit. For the Christian, the human spirit corresponds to the Holy of Holies, which is the dwelling place of The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit desires us to submit every area of our "temple" to His control. Other temple areas include the mind, the emotions, the will and the physical body.

Jesus found defilement in the Jerusalem temple; however, the money changers and the merchants with doves and cattle were not in the Holy of Holies, but in the outer courts of the temple. Jesus proceeded to "cast out" all who defiled the temple (Matt. 21:12). This is a perfect analogy to deliverance.

Defilement is not in the spirit of a Christian but in the "outer courts" of his mind, emotions and body. There can be defilement in the Outer Court while the presence of the Lord remains in the Holy of Holies. Jesus is highly displeased with such a condition. He wants His temple cleansed and every defiling demon cast out."

Hi all,
Abideinhim this is what I have been basically believing,that the Holy Spirit is resident in the Spirit but also wants control of all areas of our life.
Some of the other posts are longer and I will take a while to look at them and ask some questions.
Sarahs reverse question sums it up as well,
thanks Staff

Just a question that has cropped up after reading an article.
If from Mark 9 we know a demon can cause deafness and dumbness;
Is their anyone out there who had this problem before being saved and was healed on the day they were saved ?
My point is shouldnt all illness or problems caused by demons cease on the day the persons are indwelt.It would be interesting to hear from anyone out there?
yours staff

I never looked at it that way.

Mar 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

then later,

Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

So, it looks like Jesus actually says that the man had a deaf and dumb spirit and He cast them out.

I also find it interesting that the people were aware of dumb spirits and Jesus confirmed it. The people said, "he hath a dumb spirit", Jesus says, "Thow deaf and dumb spirit".

It sounds spiritually reasonable to believe that if no demons can occupy any part of a Believer that once they are born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit that they should all be healed and delivered from spirits of infirmity. So, I see what you are saying.

But, I don't think that is the overall experience in the Body of Christ... so that must mean...

Mike

Hi Davym,
I think you also have raised valid points,
I have noticed that in recent years that to overcome the problem of peoples experiences including mine their has been a change in terminology from demon possession to oppression etc which as you said are so similar.
Also I agree with your statement about our experiences must meet the test of scripture,their are no ifs ,maybes or buts.
Through this thread,A question has arisen that I never thought before which is this.We see that often Jesus cast out spirits and their were manifestations as they were leaving.When Christians come to Jesus and have demons on the day they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit,how is that their are no manifestations?Is it because the indwelling process is different than taking authority externally?
Also to reiterate my earlier question.If a person with a deaf and dumb spirit that causes deafness and muteness comes to Christ and is indwelt with the Holy Spirit shouldnt that person hear and speak at that very moment?
What do you think?
Yours Staff

Hi Jesus is God,
Do you have an answer to the questions that I asked,Thanks Staff

An old Cherokee told his grandson, "My son, there's a battle between two wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It's anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies, and ego. The other is Good. It's joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy, and truth." The grandson thought about it and asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed.

His Jesus is God,
I think you have side stepped the question in my opinion.
In regards to your comment in brackets,of course not all folks that are deaf and dumb have those disabilities because of demons.The question only pertains to those that are deaf and dumb because of demons.
On the day that a deaf and dumb person who are deaf and dumb because of demons are saved and indwelt do they begin to hear and speak?
(To your last question - not all "deaf or dumb" folks have those disabilities due to demons.)
Yours Staff

Hi Jesus is God,
Do you have scriptures to show that in particular after Jesus had ascended.And are you saying all people with illnesses or infirmity that are caused by demons are healed when they are saved and indwelt immediately?
And can we take into account these missionary stories as that would only be experiential doctrine wouldnt it?
Yours and thanks Staff

Hi Again your not answering the questions asked,
Everyone knows Jesus ascended in Acts.Also it is clear that not all deseases or illnesses are not demonic as I said earlier myself
Even at the end you didnt answer the question clearly as the Mark 9.25 doesnt deal with salvation.
What I would like your opinion on is when a person with a demon is saved that demon has to leave all of the time?yes or no.
Also and more importantly you side stepped the issue of missionary stories of people being saved and demons coming out of the same time.Isnt that experiencal doctrine?
The account of demons being cast out are mainly to do with evangelism accounts that may be the reason it is not mentioned.If their were no accounts of the church expanding their would be no accounts of demons being cast out full stop.Yours Staff

Staff to JiG:
What I would like your opinion on is when a person with a demon is saved that demon has to leave all of the time? yes or no.

That is my take on it, so brother they just might feel (I'm presuming again) that you are not asking them the right question!

God bless us all as we try to walk together and find something to agree on!!!

Lisa

Hi Lysa,
I think that what Jig believes this as well but what I am asking is a little difficult to answer for some one with that belief.What happens to the demon and its effects at the moment of Salvation and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
And at that moment of salvation and indwelling are their demon manifestations for those that have a demon?
The answer to the first question seems to be just experiental doctrine to me.ie missionaries have seen it happen.
It is important because if they are wrong in their belief they are denying christians a valuable and life channging resource.
Yours Staff

There are more people today than Jesus' time, and more demon possessed people than Jesus' time, so why is this so hard to figure out.

We should be seeing miraculous manifestations all the time.

Unless, of course, something else is afoot.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Jesus is God,
You failed to comment again on your earlier comment
This comment below is basing your understanding at least in part on experiential docrine isnt it?
(Hi Brother Staff, according to the works of Jesus and His Apostles and seeing that I've always loved reading the stories of Missionaries, yes - we see numerous accounts of those who were saved and healed simutaneously, when their infirmity was demonic.)
If all the people that have demons are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit have demons expelled at that same time where are the demonic manifestations?And why are they not recorded in the scripture after the birth of the Church?
Of course only a portion of people saved may have a demonic affliction and perhaps even a percentage of that portion may manifest itself.But what about that portion where are the manifestations?
Also you keep raising non issues.
I also believe the Holy Spirit cannot be indwel with a demon as well and Job was touched only and not entered and yet again almost every Christian I know believe that only some illness are demonic not all.
Yours Staff

Ok, so just thinking aloud, through everything here.

Jesus says, don't clean someone's house (deliverance, casting out of demons) if you don't have something to replace them with (Holy Spirit) or else things will be worse for them than before.

But, as this thread is saying, the minute someone is saved all demons are expelled because the Holy Spirit will not let them stay in the body, even though the Holy Spirit is joined to our Spirit.

The conclusion would seem that when people are saved, if they have a deaf and dumb spirit or spirit of infirmity that they would be healed instantly.

Am I on track with all of your thinking?

So, it would seem that there is no need for casting out demons anymore. Right?

You don't want to cast out demons in an unbeliever because you have no assurance they will accept Christ. And if demons are automatically expelled at salvation, then this verse really does not apply anymore.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

New tongues apply but not the casting out of devils.

Not saying I agree, just trying to follow your logic.

In Christ,
Sarah

Where do demons occupy?

In unbelievers

Hi Sarah,
That is an expanded better version but thats the logic.Thank you for listening.May I just add that in some cases their would have to be manifestations of demons leaving at the point of indwelling by the Holy Spirit,
What do not agree on or are you mulling it over,
Yours Staff

Hi Jesus is God,
If you dont want or cannot answer my questions about your missionary comment that is ok but the comment by bownyknees is just unedifying to say the least.
I have genuinely tried to bring a different aspect to the discussion that hasnt been on other threads about the subject.And I welcome anyone out their to explain away my thoughts on the subject.Although Sarah doesnt say she believes either way what I am saying her post probably best represents what I am saying.I think anyone on this forum that believes that a christian cannot have a demon occupying in some way not nessacarily in the spirit should be able to answer my few simple questions.I think that is fair,yours staff

Because we live in a fallen world, that is influenced in "all areas" media, government, education etc., by satanic activity. We attribute everything to demonic activity. Most often, what we see is the fruit of a cursed humanity. Be assured, those same demons that Jesus cast out, over 2 thousand years ago, are still walking the earth today. More wise and more effective than ever before. They have had more time to perfect their destructive skills. Satan and his angels were active during the ministry of Christ, because God, in human flesh had appeared, and they knew full well who He was. Our culture is so entrenched in wickedness, by its own volition, satan can rest with this generation. I don't see in scripture, where believers are possessed, oppressed,yes. Paul was sent a buffer from satan. So God allows satan to "touch" his children, but not to take over their will and abide in their souls.

So God allows satan to "touch" his children, but not to take over their will and abide in their souls.

Chapter and verse, please on the second part of your statement.

It's not about what God allows or not. It is what man allows and who he gives himself to.

Read James 4.

In Christ,
Sarah

The people who were delivered from demonic activity, were not saved. They didnot have the ability to choose. That is the reason that we want to liberate people from satan's shackles. They must be free to hear the message of grace and choose of their own volition. Everyone that refuses to listen, isnot possessed by demons. They are simply blinded by the power of the devil. Some of the habits that the new convert will exhibit, may not shed immediately. But may carry over into christiandom, where the Holy Spirit will remove them, through the process of sanctification.

I beg to differ with you. We give too much credence to the power of man, while we detract from the power of God. 1Cor. 5:4 Paul admonished this church to deal with an immoral believer, by osticizing him and "handing him over to satan , so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord".All that satan was "allowed by God" to do to Job, He was not allowed to take his life or his will. Job still was given the ability to express pure emotions, inspite of his physical and spiritual attack by satan himself.

Thank you Sarah for the good dialogue. Have a blessed night.

And thank you, Sprinkle.

Perhaps it is also good to remember that sometimes God has to give us a revelation by way of experience before we actually "SEE" it in His Word.

We should not be so quick to always say, "IT'S NOT IN THE WORD".

Why?

Take the story of Peter and Cornelius. God had to give Peter a dream (experience) to explain to him what was already in His Word concerning the Gentiles. Something, Paul saw by the Holy Spirit and writes about in Galtians and other books.

“I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and ALL PEOPLES ON EARTH WILL BE BLESSED THROUGH YOU.” (Genesis 12:2-3)

Israel, a Light to the Gentiles

“I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.
(Isaiah 42:6)

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit UPON ALL FLESH; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Remember how adamant Peter was about not eating any of the unclean food that came down on a sheet out of heaven?

He was very dogmatic you could say about what he thought was "IN THE WORD" and what He thought was taught by God.

In Christ,
Sarah

We know very little and the little we know we have not even mastered.

Endzone are you saying that, when someone is delivered from possession they are saved i.e. born again?

There are numerous accounts of those who were healed, cured, and fed yet did not follow Jesus. They reaped His benefits but did not turn to Him in full faith and surrender, but instead left Him. John 6:66

Sorry staff you were offended and not edified by my answer to your question.
Truth is Truth.

Jesus-is-God,

Do you have a lot of experience in casting out demons? You sound as though you are an expert on this subject. Have you cast out demons from anyone and what happened afterwards?

Have you ever seen a spirit-filled Christian decide to cavort with unclean spirits? Of course many have and received dire consequences in the flesh and spirit for it.

We see Ted Haggard for one prominent example.

We are New Testament Christians as Peter was and I am just wondering what you base your solid belief on? Peter was convinced that he was basing his belief on the Word.

Is it possible that a Christian can choose to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but if he decides to be filled with an evil spirit, it just won't happen?

So far your answers don't really stand up and I have yet to see you answer staff's question about the missionaries you talked about.

Bless you,

In Christ,
Sarah

Jesus-is-God,

Just a follow-up.

I would be interested in knowing how you explain that when someone does give themselves over to unclean, evil spirits and if no measure of possession takes place in their body or soul (we definitely know it cannot happen in the spirit), how is it that they are seldom able to break away on their own from the sin and often it brings them into worse sin. Even, as some have testified that they cried heartfelt tears of repentance.

Is it just a simple struggle with sin and the flesh as you believe?

Just asking. I always asked questions as a little girl and I guess I have never stopped. Staff's thread has piqued my interest in this subject as I don't see what you see in the Bible.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Bowmyknees,Not offended but I asked a few simple questions and they were not at all answered.Truth is truth but it has to be backed up with answers.
I asked
1.Isnt quoting stories from missionaries experential doctrine?
2.The moment a person becomes a christian or indwelt a demon has to leave that body according to christians who believe that christians cant have demons.Yes or no?
3.If this is the case in percentage of these cases their must be demonic manifestations as a person becomes a christian?
4.Why are such manifestations not recorded in Scripture after the birth of the church?
Maybe you could have a go at answering,Thanks Staff

Hi Jesus is God,
With due respect you have not stayed on topic of the thread
I asked
1.Isnt quoting stories from missionaries experential doctrine?or someones countenance for that matter or the amount of years you have been looking at a subject.Yes or no

2.The moment a person becomes a christian or indwelt a demon has to leave that body according to christians who believe that christians cant have demons.Yes or no?

3.If this is the case in percentage of these cases their must be demonic manifestations as a person becomes a christian?(These are the ones that have a legion or a deaf and dumb spirit from birth)

4.Why are such manifestations not recorded in Scripture after the birth of the church?This is important because we are talking about christians not old testament saints

May I add what is the point of casting out demons at all if they are going to leave when a person becomes born again anyway?
Thanks Staff

Jesus-is-God,

I have many questions for you, but will withhold further ones so as to give you a chance to answer staff.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Martyr,

It is an interesting study to me.

btw, Sin Nature was non-existent until the NIV.

Also, consider this:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is defeated, no longer having the keys of death, but Paul says we still wrestle against him.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

If Satan is not to be overcome, then what does this mean?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame HIM by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Who is the "him"?

I think we can find out who "him" is in the previous verse.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

It's a great study. I am enjoying it. I have not arrived at a conclusion yet, but it is not glaringly obvious to me as it seems to be to everyone else, especially in the face of the current health of the church, today.

I would then have to conclude many who name the name of Jesus Christ as not saved. That would make many things for me quite tidy and convenient, but I am not yet convinced that the Devil is not able to get some kind of foothold, somewhere. What kind of foothold? I don't know, but it seems that if one opens up a door to sin, they are potentially opening up a door for him and what does he do with that open door? Just stand there?

We should probably bow out for now as Staff is awaiting an answer from Jesus-is-God.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi All,
My next question was going to be what part of a person did demons occupy in the old testament and is their any scriptures?Put in another way did demons occupy people in the old testament in the body soul or spirit or all three?

One other question about casting out demons nowadays in the western world in particular.How does a person (non christian)recognise they have a demon and have them cast out when nobody except christians believe demons exist?
If any one has insights .......Yours Staff

Each person must come to their own decisions on Biblical Doctrine. No one will change their minds if their minds are made up already.

Amen! Each person is bound to go with what the Spirit has shown them.

Sarah, I do feel that we all come to our own understanding by reading His Word and with prayer and by living the Life.

Thank you. I am trying to come to an understanding of His Word coupled with real life events.

as I've said so many times now. That's what "Living the Life" is. That's when it's just you and Him in that place where you would bank your life on what you believe is true.

I was hoping that you would share some of your experiences to back up what you say the Word says.

Hi Jesus-is-God,

Thank you for your reply and for "rooting" for us.

Sarah

Hi Sarah,
Feeling your pain and desperation.Addiction in my opinion of any kind can be demonic.I will pray for you and yours.
When I got saved the meetings I went to for a few months were healing and deliverance.The gentleman who held the meetings sold everything he owned including a very successful business and gave it to the needy when he became saved aged 65 or 70 approx.He walked the walk and talked the talk and made no profit whatsoever.I can only give my personal testimony but every week people would give testimony about how they were healed or delivered including addictions.This man had a very powerful ministry and I dont feel my prayers would have the effect that his had but I will pray.The Lord can heal and deliver directly without ministries or churches as well.
I honestly didnt think much about that time til the last week or so but I felt like I wanted to revisit it and understand it better.
Lord Jesus we pray for Jack for healing and for Sarah we pray for your direction and insight in her prayers.Amen
regards staff

JiG Wrote...
"Sad but very true Sis Star. This fact has always amazed me, in a sad way. I wonder how many have been touched by GOD in our day and have rejected Him when the going got tough."

Ya, puts a fear of God in me for sure! :)

QUOTE:
"I don't know how you could ever get him off of these drugs. The normal course of action with a willing patient is to wean them off - but 'willing' is the key word there".

Psychiatric drugs should not be aimed in bringing cure to mental illnesses, but they facilitate in bringing a psychological state where the desired behaviors could be learned.

So in the interim psychotherapy is instituted by psychiatrist and other related related professionals. For a christian who fell in to certain form of mental illness for example OCD, we introduce or re-introduce the gospel with the help of prayer and other related endeavors.

It is only when the gospel is realized by an individual and the caring persons that the true healing will occur.

A very meaningful realization of some aspects of the gospel could take years so that in cases like OCD patience both by the sufferer and caring persons is needed.

During those moments where the disturbing behaviors is most florid a prayer could make a person calm but then again without a clear grasp of the gospel those disturbing thoughts tend to recur.

Psychiatric drugs also help in making the sad ordeal of a mental illness bearable not only by the patient but also by his family and community.

Are those drugs really indispensable?

Let me me answer this way, how much do we really realize or want to realize these verses:

Jam 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jam 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Jam 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Jam 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The source of the problem has to be dealt with in order to obtain deliverance.

Sin has to be confessed and cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

The flesh must be crucified by appropriating Romans 6:6.

Demons must be cast out in the name of Jesus.

As EZ said in his post. Habitual sin, yielding to the flesh in any area repeatedly, opens the door to demons and will result in bondage.

Praise God that Jesus Christ not only paid the price for our sins. He also defeated the enemey and has given the Christian authority over the powers of darkness.

Mike

"Only The Holy Spirit can diagnose [so to speak] exactly 'what' we're dealing with. That dependence on GOD is so essential in these last days and the days to come.
There are no 'pat answers' when in the ministry. As in the Bible - Each Case is Different and only the Holy Spirit of GOD can give the right 'diagnosis' of what is troubling someone."

I agree with you on two main points that you made in your last post.

We need to be totally dependent on the Holy Spirit in helping people. Without trusting Him, and leaning to our own knowledge we are sure to miss it. Anyone who councils people should pray for wisdom and the gift of discernment.

When we go to the doctor, we want him to get the diagnosis right, because if he doesn't he could do more harm than good. Just as you made the point that if a Christian is not being oppressed by demons when there is some other root cause to his problems , and he believes wrongly that demonic oppression is the source, then he will not get any help or deliverance. On the other hand, if there is demonic oppression taking place, then the axe must be laid to the root. All of the counciling in the world will not help one that is being oppressed by evil spirits. Demons do understand the power of the blood and the name of Jesus, and the one that is oppressed must know his authority in Christ.

Mike

Hi Endzone,Your post brings me back to a question I had earlier below in brackets.

(One other question about casting out demons nowadays in the western world in particular.How does a person (non christian)recognise they have a demon and have them cast out when nobody except christians believe demons exist?)

The point being how can an unbelieving world come to have a demon cast out unless they are a minor brought by a gaurdian.Where does that leave casting out a demon out of a non christian?
Yours Staff

Hi All,

Thank you all so very much for the discussion and prayers.

Sarah

Jesus-isGod,

I'd rather not if you don't mind. We are able to travel, if need be.

Sarah

Thank you, Brenda.

I really believe only Christ can deliver and He will set free any man that wants to be set free. I had not realized until this thread how little experience the Church has in this area. I do appreciate all the good-hearted advice and prayers.

In Christ,
Sarah

Thank you very much for the book, EZ.

In Christ,
Sarah

In 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, the Apostle Paul refers to Christians as God's Temple. I submit to you that Ezekiel 8 gives the imagery of a person who claims to be a Christian but has never repented of sin - Luke 24:45 indicates repentence is necessary for forgiveness of sin. Without repentence, implying you refuse to welcome an evil spirit in your inner court (your thoughts), permanent deliverance will not occur. With repentence comes forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit will cleanse the Temple. An example of repentence that would lead to deliverance is as follows - at the start, you see nothing wrong with secretly toying with pornography in your mind (Ezekiel 8:16). Through reading and hearing the Word, and through the convinction of the Holy Spirit, in your heart you begin to consider that secret sin wrong and you confess it as wrong. Applying James 4:7, you then begin to submit to God (being in agreement with Him), and you resist the evil spirits who keep delivering the pornographic images to your brain. After a time, your faithful Creator takes care of business, and shuts the mouths of the evil spirits - driving them from the Temple (YOU). That is why the Lord includes repentence as leading to forgiveness of sin. Teach repentence as the Lord instructed in Luke 24, and deliverence will be an end result.

What I am trying to express is that if you cast a demon out of a person who has not repented, you will be casting the same demon out again and again - plus more - Matthew 12:43-45.
FIRST repentance, then effective deliverance. Repentance is what makes the deliverance remain in effect. Deliverance is certainly a ministry of those who believe - but the Lord is not limited to that.

Hi All,In fairness to Jesus is God you did make an effort to answer my question earlier but their must be more out there with a view that Christians cannot have demons.
So I will repeat the question for them.
If Christians cant have demons then at the moment of indwelling by the Holy Spirit the demons have to go immediately.
Shouldnt their be demonic manifestations in some cases as the demon leaves(not all cases some!)?
Yours Staff

I would think so. That would also agree with the NT (manifestations). Demons don't seem to go quietly. They are whiners and manipulators.

Also, I don't think the enemy respects a Christian that opens a door to him through habitual sin. Why should he?

Sarah

I have a simple question; How can a demon spirit and the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit live in the same temple?

It seems like mixing oil and water, it may seem the two mix, but wait 5 min and manifested, we see the two won't mix.

In Christ: Phillip

I have a few questions, too.

In the Bible, how could Israel's enemies invade their borders when their God was the Living God. Why would God let that happen?

Why did Jesus need to clean out the Temple and what were the different things He was He trying to tell us.

And, if a born-again Christian dies with unconfessed sin, will he be saved?

Sarah

Hi ,I think this was answered earlier when a poster described the temple with holy of holies as the spirit and the outer court a persons body.The demon cannot reside in the holy of holies or the spirit.
Yours Staff

Hi I want to put my question another way.
Jesus said that a certain kind of demons would leave only by prayer and fasting.If all demons have to leave when a person becomes indwelt with the Holy Spirit why didnt Jesus teach along these lines- that when a man becomes born again these demons leave.?
Also if you keep strictly to the text prayer and fasting should be nessacary for this kind of demon to leave before a person could become indwelt by the Holy Spirit or born again,that is if you believe that a christian cannot have a demon.

Matt 17.21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Yours Staff

There is a controversy regarding Matt 17:21, this is not found in manuscripts which are considered more reliable by many translators.

However, a similar passage is recorded in Mark 9:29 but the word 'fasting' is missing.

Some commentators note that the 'subject' is not about casting demons but how to increase one's faith, and that is by prayer.

Many times (or most of the times) a believer does not have amount of faith as demonstrated in this verse:

"Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly."

But to which the believers have a recourse of obtaining the desired results and that is through prayer.

Here are the complementary verses of Mat 17:18:

Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Mar 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

Mar 9:27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

Note this_..." and enter no more into him "...

Hi Passerby,
I think that is correct its about faith and the demon being cast out is only secondary.
In the verse below we see that the Spirit Cried and rent him sore.That would have to happen when this man became born again or indwelt by the Holy Spirit if a christian cannot have a demon.
Mar 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead
Are their any verses that say directly a demon possesses the spirit of a man other than using greek or hebrew concordance?
Yours Staff

Quote: Staff

"""Matt 17.21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."""

These were before the indwelling of the promised and prayed for Holy Spirit came. If a person is born again who had a demon, the demon must leave. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit will cancell out all demon posession. The Spirit of Christ in the believer takes the spirit of our old father and casts him out, we are posessed now by the Spirit of Christ who is our life and gives us His Father as our Father. "We will come and make our abode with you". Now satan and his followers can only stand of and throw firey darts at us. That is why we need the whole armour of God.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:4-7 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

Armour of Righteousness is Christ, whom God has made unto us. 1 Cor 1:30

Christ is the whole armour.

Ephesians 6:12-18 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth (Christ), and having on the breastplate of righteousness; (Christ) And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; (Christ)Above all, taking the shield of faith, (Christ) wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, (Christ)and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (Christ)Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, (Holy Spirit)and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

In Christ: Phillip

It is my understanding that demons in cases of demon possession occupies the body but in doing so it has to bind the human soul and spirit that the demoniacs present with a new personality and those bizarre psychological and physical manifestations.

The 'man' then has lost control over his mind and body though
it seems that those mental and physical manifestations are still subject to the physiological or neurochemical pathways so that we see that drugs for example can tranquilize these people.

I can not at the moment think or remember of any verse that directly tells that demons occupy the human spirit.

Hi Christ in you,
I agree with all the scriptures quoted but none say that a demon has to go but only that the Holy Spirit comes in and dwells.It doesnt either that a demon dwells in the spirit of an unsaved person.
Their is considerable examples of certain types of demon manifesting itself as it leaves when cast out their is no examples of this either in the word or by experience(that I know of) happening when a man becomes born again or indwelt.
Also why cast out a demon out of an unsaved person other than a minor under the authority of a gaurdian?They will end up 7 times worse than they were before.It would better to invite a man to become saved(because the demon has to leave according to that teaching) and if he didnt then leave him with the demon he has,
Yours Staff

(These were before the indwelling of the promised and prayed for Holy Spirit came. If a person is born again who had a demon, the demon must leave. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit will cancell out all demon posession. The Spirit of Christ in the believer takes the spirit of our old father and casts him out, we are posessed now by the Spirit of Christ who is our life and gives us His Father as our Father. "We will come and make our abode with you". Now satan and his followers can only stand of and throw firey darts at us. That is why we need the whole armour of God.)

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

If we are born of God, whose Seed is giving the rebirth that makes us sons'.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So Christ in us cannot commit sin? Correct?

If The Christ Seed is in us, He cannot commit sin? Correct?

But, if ""any man"" sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And (((if any man sin,))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So how do we reconcile the two? If Christ is in us and we are born from above and He cannot sin. How is it that He is our advocate with the Father? Even the Born Again can sin? Correct. So it is no longer I who live, But Christ who liveth in me. He is the One that cannot sin and that is who the Father trusts for my salvation, for how could Grace give me the Son and then trust in me to keep Him by not sinning? This won't work, I must trust Him and what He did on the Cross for my salvation by Grace through Faith, that I might be called a son of God.

It is the Christ Seed in us that cannot sin, He is our new life in Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is bringing new life to our soul/mind, by giving us the capability of renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ. So the old man mind can still sin, and some day it will be not in the flesh of the old man and the old man mind and flesh, but some day it will be just like His and we will never sin for we are as He is. Even now we can but most don't, even as He is in this world so are we.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

All the wicked one can do is throw firey darts at us, that is why we are told to put on the whole Armour of God, which we have in Christ. It is like a coat in the closet and we are freezing and won't put it on. It is there, we must use it and we won't freeze and by He that is in us we don't have to sin if we put Him on.

Every thought must be caught into captivity to the Spirit and Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which is a hard thing to do. But it is there.

The wicked one cannot touch the Son of God that is in us, we can allow by our own minds to believe satan can and his demons hurt us, Don't believe it and we won't serve satan ever again.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.

Where can satan hurt us? Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Only in our flesh when we serve other gods and believe they are more than Christ and what He did when He put down the god of this world.

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Christ in you,
That a nice verse but it doesnt answer the questions asked.
For instance I could take this verse to mean that if you sin you are not born of god and that the wicked one can touch such a person.Even though we know that all born again,indwelt believers sin but are born of God.So taken out of context this verse can say what is not meant and in no way proves or disproves that a christian can or cannot have a demon.
I still put it out there that if a christian cannot have a demon then why are no manifestations recorded when christans become indwelt?
Yours Staff

Re:
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

If we are born of God, whose Seed is giving the rebirth that makes us sons'.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So Christ in us cannot commit sin? Correct?

If The Christ Seed is in us, He cannot commit sin? Correct?

But, if ""any man"" sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And (((if any man sin,))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So how do we reconcile the two? If Christ is in us and we are born from above and He cannot sin. How is it that He is our advocate with the Father? Even the Born Again can sin? Correct. So it is no longer I who live, But Christ who liveth in me. He is the One that cannot sin and that is who the Father trusts for my salvation, for how could Grace give me the Son and then trust in me to keep Him by not sinning? This won't work, I must trust Him and what He did on the Cross for my salvation by Grace through Faith, that I might be called a son of God.

It is the Christ Seed in us that cannot sin, He is our new life in Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is bringing new life to our soul/mind, by giving us the capability of renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ. So the old man mind can still sin, and some day it will be not in the flesh of the old man and the old man mind and flesh, but some day it will be just like His and we will never sin for we are as He is. Even now we can but most don't, even as He is in this world so are we.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

All the wicked one can do is throw firey darts at us, that is why we are told to put on the whole Armour of God, which we have in Christ. It is like a coat in the closet and we are freezing and won't put it on. It is there, we must use it and we won't freeze and by He that is in us we don't have to sin if we put Him on.

Every thought must be caught into captivity to the Spirit and Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which is a hard thing to do. But it is there.

The wicked one cannot touch the Son of God that is in us, we can allow by our own minds to believe satan can and his demons hurt us, Don't believe it and we won't serve satan ever again.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.

Where can satan hurt us? Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Only in our flesh when we serve other gods and believe they are more than Christ and what He did when He put down the god of this world.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

"It is my understanding that demons in cases of demon possession occupies the body but in doing so it has to bind the human soul and spirit that the demoniacs present with a new personality and those bizarre psychological and physical manifestations."

This refers to 'demon possession'. I am aware that some believe that christians can be possessed and that they have rather different definition of demon possession.

Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods, unless first he binds the strong one, and then he will plunder his house.

Who is in control of one's body or self if he is not possessed?_ and unless the demon put that in bondage how can it manifest.

Even in cases of 'demonic oppression', there is a bondage whether through temptations, false accusations, confusion, fear, or deception.

"So, why would God lift a finger and keep the enemy out today if his child decides to have an adulterous affair?

Does his child who is in sin get to still enjoy the protection of the Holy Spirit? Is not the Holy Spirit then complicit in this man's sin. Protecting him while he enjoys his sin. Do we have no responsibility in protecting our body. The Holy Spirit is protecting our spirit but I don't think He will protect our body regardless of what we do."

I don't know if you have children, but will you easily give up your children just like that if they have offended you.

I know you don't mean any harm but these statements can misrepresent or be misrepresented.

I am sorry brother, I mean no offense, I am just bothered by what you said.

A christian who is in adulterous affair is in danger of losing his salvation unless he repents, and may receive severe discipline from the Lord to save him from hell.

Likewise a christian who abuses his body may incur sickness
and injuries because of his foolishness.

But these don't mean that he has lost protection from the Lord though this verse maybe made to effect:

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I have been concerned because we are talking about demonic bondage. Many christians who are in demonic oppression
especially those who are living in fear, anxiety, spiritual trauma, or panic are continually oppressed because they are confused about the lovingkindness or the gospel of God.

I know it could have started because of some sins they have committed and they got the full dose of them but now they long to go back to God but those demons won't just let them.

And we fast and pray, we rebuke, we preach the gospel, and rehabilitate the wounded.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Yes He will chasteneth His own children.

Deuteronomy 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Who's are we? In Christ and Christ in us to do the work in our lives that is God's will. He will do it. We have nothing to do with satan unless God uses him for our benifit and chastening bringing us into conformity with Jesus Christ.

How much does this mean to you, "IN CHRIST"?

In Him that has overcome the world: Phillip

We have nothing to do with satan unless God uses him for our benifit and chastening

We also have nothing to do with him unless we open doors to him through sin.

I believe that Satan has plenty to do with us if we open a door through rebellion to him. Not submitting to God is rebellion. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and it is what brought Lucifer down.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Christ in you,
I still havent seen your answer to my questions:
If demons have to leave at the point of Indwelling of the Holy Spirit,where are the demonic manifestations that would happen in some cases recorded in Scripture?or in experience?
What is the logic of casting out demons out of unsaved people?Christ and the disciples did it but the comforter had not come yet,so I can see why it happened before the cross but not after.

Also in regards to below where are the examples of scripture that say a demon could ever live in the spirit of an unsaved person?
(Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.)
Yours Staff

Demons do not leave us when we are indewelled with the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus was tempted by Satan right after John baptized him. Matthew 3:13; John 1:32 Jesus being tempted by Satan; Matthew 4:1-11. Satan entered into Judas while eating with Jesus. \tJohn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him; also read Luke 22:3; John 13:27. The indewelling of the Holy Spirit helps us to resist the temptations of Satan and his demons by the word of God. If a person that has not or does not except and believe in there heart in God and the one he sent Jesus Christ as a sacrifice for our sins for all the people that live in this world.
\tWhat is the logic of casting out demons out of unsaved people? You cannot unless they; 1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.\t\tChrist and the disciples did it but the comforter had not come yet,so I can see why it happened before the cross but not after. This may help: Luke 9:1 ¶ Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Matthew 10:1; Mark 3:13; Mark 6:7.
\tYour question where are the demonic manifestations that would happen in some cases recorded in Scripture?or in experience? I am not sure what you are asking.

Staff I really don't understand your questions.

Is satan spirit, are demons spirit? Where will they occupy?
If this flesh is the a temple or a clay pot, then I guess whoever is living in the temple is the controlling entity.

If Christ is now my spirit, how could light and darkness dwell in the same place, Christ and satan. If your question is why are there no demonstrations of satan and demons being kicked out of this temple when Christ comes to make His and the Fathers and the Holy Spirit abode, I don't know why we don't see it in the Word. It looks like it would be common sense that Christ and satan cannot live in the same temple. It would seem by simple deduction that demon possessed persons would be not born again. Demon oppression is something else. I don't know how far a demon can go in their profession, I would guess they can go only as far our God and Father allow them to go. I can only look at Job, never posession as far as I can understand, but outward oppression up to not taking Jobs life as God gave permission to the devil, withholding Jobs life as satans boundries.

I don't know how far satan and his demons can go, only what I see in scripture. Mostly outward physical oppression, I don't see spirit possession in the saved, only the unsaved, that is satans dwelling place before we are born again, which like God the Father sends His angels to help His children, satan can send his demon angels to do his dirty work.

What are you trying to say, by asking the questions, just come right out and say where you think we disagree, which is completely ok, for then I can take stock and study what you are saying and make a judgement for myself from the way I see scripture, that is where by revelation I can change my mind or stand firm in the truth.

In Christ: Phillip

Why Judas and not the other 11? Only to fulfill scripture.

Hi Christ in You,
Thats fine if you dont understand my question.My fault.I will try and say it a bit clearer and say what I think about it all.

I think now that a demon may not be able to possess a persons spirit unsaved or saved.This came to my mind because the demons asked to go into a herd of swine which have no spirit.
I think that a demon can attach or occupy some part of a persons body or soul whether saved or unsaved.
I think that if a christian cannot have a demon then all demons have to leave at the moment of indwelling by the Holy Spirit.
Some demons manifest themselves greatly when leaving,so I think that those demons would have to manifest themselves also just has the Holy Spirit is indwelling the new Christian.
I think the problems that that demon caused would have to dissapear at the moment of indwelling of the Holy Spirit in all cases.
e.g the deaf and dumb man could hear and talk
Their is no record of demonic manifestastion as a christian is being saved in scripture therefore I think that this greatly effects the view that a christian cannot have a demon attached to or occupying some part of a christians body or soul.(i said earlier that a demon may not be able to occupy a person saved or unsaved in their spirit)
Also their is no record as far I as I know of demonic manifestations for instance at Billy Graham crusades where large amount of people are being saved and indwelt.

I think both sides of the debate on whether a christian can or cannot have a demon have in some way to use experiential doctrine as I have with my Billy Graham comment.
To a certain extent casting out a demon of an unsaved person is pointless and has no logic as far as I can see.

To sum up I think that a christian can have a demon occupy or attach to the body and soul but not the Spirit because I dont think the demon can occupy an unsaved persons Spirit.
I hope that that makes my muddled up mind clearer on the subject,
Yours in Christ.
Staff
P.s After saying all that maybe I just asked a tricky question and someone has an answer to it.

Hi Dn326,
I didnt ignore your post but I think that my answer to Christ in You answers the last part of your post,Hi by the way Yours Staff

I don't think he had an agenda and so what if he did?

I think he brought out some important understanding.

Many here will post a topic wanting to "teach us something".

Haven't you Jesus-is-God? Look back at your one world order posts. Boy, those got very heated and you were accused of having an agenda. It's not a good feeling is it to be accused of having an agenda?

Cut staff some slack.

Just because you always say "it is not in the Word", doesn't mean it is not. It just means you are not seeing it for whatever reason. You are not the authority for what is in the Word or not in the Word. Did you know that you come off that way?

Let people converse and discuss without trying to shutdown their quest for truth.

Clearly, "It is not in the Word", is not a good enough answer for these people and they wish to search the scriptures some more. So let them.

Mike

Jesus-is-God,

What will we do? Have we forgotten that Jesus Christ is our Deliverer?

Could this be why so many are in "chains" today in the Church? Because the Church does not know how to minister in the Power of the Holy Spirit and the name of Jesus, to deliver one from bondage?

The Word shows that demon spirits seek a body (pigs), not a spirit, because they know that is off limits. It is the Holy of Holies.

But they are happy to dwell in the outer court. The entire Temple must be kept clean for the Lord.

I am standing on His Word, too.

We are the ones responsible for bringing the "idols" into the Temple. Easy to bring them in, not so easy to kick them out, but not impossible.

We all have much more to learn, don't we. I can confidently say, I don't know His whole Word. Can you confidently say that?

Mike

Many are in "chains" today in the Church because the church does not know HIS WORD nor it's Power, which is what His Spirit of Truth was given to us to learn the Truth of.

The Spirit without The Word of GOD is no more true Christianity than The Word without His Spirit.

So, you agree with me. Great!

Mike

I am in agreement with your statement.

Many are in "chains" today in the Church because the church does not know HIS WORD nor it's Power, which is what His Spirit of Truth was given to us to learn the Truth of.

The Spirit without The Word of GOD is no more true Christianity than The Word without His Spirit.

So back on topic. Jesus did not "die to set us Free" to leave demons in a body that has become His Temple.

Again, That is Not In His Word and none of us should feel intimadated by a human being to Not say that that is Not In His Word.

EDIT

I can agree with that. Jesus does not want demons in our body. That is not His will.

I also, believe that once a Christian is saved that he can open doors through sin to the enemy.

Mike

Jesus-is-God,

Nice try, but you are twisting the Word to fit your theology. This has never been the view of these scriptures. This man was being punished that he may repent and recover. We see later that Paul instructed the church to forgive and receive him.

That verse does not say that he was not saved at that time, but that he might be saved instead of lost in the day of the Lord Jesus. (lose his salvation).

Paul, was not in the habit of turning over unbelievers to Satan and the NT does not teach us to do that. That is ridiculous. At the least, he would have preached the gospel to that lost soul and cast that demon out of that man. Otherwise, if the man was lost and somehow been allowed in the fellowship of believers and rejected the gospel, Paul would have just said have no fellowship with him. Basically, kick him out.

I don't see believers going around and delivering unbelievers to Satan. They are already delivered to Satan!

This does not mean that the man was to die under the infliction of this punishment, for the object was to recover him if through his punishment he would repent; and it is evident that, whatever he suffered as the consequence of this, he survived it, and Paul again instructed the Corinthians to admit him to their fellowship, 2Co_2:7.

Mike

P.S. When Christians are partying with demons (living in sin as you say) through their sin, do they lose their salvation? You are setting yourself up as judge that they were never saved.

As I said, Paul never delivered the LOST to SATAN. He delivered Christians to Satan that were in gross, unrepentant sin, but it was always towards a view of repentance and recovery.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Paul was excluding these men from the fellowship of the Church and it was with a view to redemption.

How can any satanic force stand against God?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If God wants to save a person, and Jesus to be born again in that person and they have a demon, there is no necessity of outward appearance or any pomp or circumstance all Jesus has to say is "Go".

Even the devils know when Jesus is present, they will be cast out.

Matthew 8:31-32 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

Devils must yield in the presence of Jesus, they have no thought of how are we going to keep this person demon possessed, they must flee and be destroyed as the pigs.

No Christ born son of God can have a demon possession.

In Christ: Phillip

Will anyone answer my earlier question?

When the very presence of God (the ark of the covenant) was in Israel, why did God let Israel's enemies inside their borders to attack and ravage them? Why didn't He keep them out because His own presence was within Israel?

Thank you,
Sarah

It all comes down to; is God in control or man.

The will of man is not to choose God, no not one.

So God has to violate our will to save us and birth His Son in the believer. 1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

The Word of God is Christ. John 1 and Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Jesus is the Incorruptable Seed of God that He has birthed in us, He did not ask us if we wanted to be Born Again, He just did it. That violates my will, praise God. He chose me, I did not choose Him and all I have to do is believe Christ is in me and the Holy Spirit begins His work in our soul/mind to teach all that Jesus said in His Word, says and will say. Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Jesus is the true God and He is our eternal life, "Not my will but yours be done".
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

It is His will and work in us. Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip

Philip, God does not violate our will. We are not puppets.

Jesus-is-God, you are saying that God allows chastisement from Israel's enemies? That He allows Israel's enemies to invade them?

Did Israel do anything to open this door to chastisement by their enemies? If they are being chastised, they must have done something, right?

Thank you,
Sarah

Dear Sister,

You mean well but you are changing the discussion.

Contrary to the title of this report - A Spirit filled Christian who has their mind Filled with and renewed by The Word of GOD, DOES indeed have Him & His Word for a mental firewall.

We all agree about this, I am sure.

[qute] If we continue to believe that the enemy of our souls has access to us beyond what is written - we ourselves have punched a hole in that firewall and are open to believe even more lies that will deceive us further in the end.

We are exploring "what is written". We do not believe that the enemy has any access to us unless we allow it, or unless the Lord sovereignly allows it as in the case of Job.

What we are exploring is how much access the powers of darkness have to a Christian in willful, habitual sin. And nt to take away from staff's questions, either.

Thank you,
Sarah

Quote:
""Philip, God does not violate our will. We are not puppets.""

No we are just clay pots.

Quote: """What we are exploring is how much access the powers of darkness have to a Christian in willful, habitual sin. And nt to take away from staff's questions, either."""

None, it is all on me when I am carried away by my own lust. Which if you want, Satan is the author and perfector of my sin. I don't need a demon to sin, I handle that all on my own.

Romans 9:14-23 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The violated will of man is the only way we can be saved, Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

Again, Philip, we never said, "we need a demon to sin".

Thanks for your opinion.

In Christ,
Sarah

Jesus-is-GOD

You are right, I fear we are giving Satan what he loves, recognition.

Ephesians 6:12-18 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

This is my prayer that we all know where we stand, God having provided the whole Armour of God, Jesus Christ, as He stood, so do we. 1 John 4:17-19 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

The love of Christ casts out all fear, that includes demons

In Christ: Phillip

"In Christ,
Sarah"

Amen

Hi Jesus is God,
Whether I have an agenda or not is irrelevant,Jesus asked slick questions as well to help people think and understand.He had an agenda.
In fairness I was asked by Christ in you to say what was on my mind.
I have brought up points that you refuse to engage with.
Again I ask the question that I think all people who believe that a christian cannot have a demon should be able to answer.
When a person that has a type of demon that manifests itself like the deaf and dumb demon becomes indwelt by the Holy Spirit why do we not see these manifestations recorded in the word or even why do we not hear of such things happen at for instance at Billy Graham crusades?
Yours Staff

Quote: Will anyone answer my earlier question?

When the very presence of God (the ark of the covenant) was in Israel, why did God let Israel's enemies inside their borders to attack and ravage them? Why didn't He keep them out because His own presence was within Israel?

I think one answer lies in the Book of Judges:

Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?

Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.

King Saul also did that:

1Sa 15:9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

1Sa 15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,

1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

When we came to Christ we may need to forsake a lot of things; music, movies, friends, jobs, ideas, relationships, etc which can be be a big snare for us, they keep the door open for enemy attacks.

But like Saul we can make alibi or alibis and make them for example a sacrifice or instruments for the Lord.

You are right, I fear we are giving Satan what he loves, recognition.

We have nothing to fear. And one reason the Church has so many problems with seemingly no answers, is that they choose to remain ignorant about their adversary.

They have been falsely taught that if you study your adversary and how he works you are giving him glory.

That is complete... well, I won't say.

The problem with the church is that she has ignored the Enemy to her detriment.

Paul was not ignorant about the Adversary and counseled us not to be ignorant.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi passerby,

I did not see your post. Thank you for answering it. I think you are touching upon something that opens doors to the enemy. We are not to make any league or covenant with them and we are to throw down their altars in our heart and destroy all idols.

Nothing has changed in that respect. Only the place of the temple and the presence of God.

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Giving Satan recognition is like looking through a hole in the fence that says don't look.

In Christ: Phillip

Philip, does that mean I should cut out all the scriptures in the Bible that teach about Satan, now?

That would be a big part of the Bible. When you ignore Scripture, you have basically cut it out and that is what the Church has done. When you study and learn about the Adversary from the Bible you are not giving him recognition. That information was given to us by the Holy Spirit for a reason. You give him recognition when you receive a spirit of fear regarding him and are afraid of him. When you are paralyzed by fear and doubt is when you have given him recognition.

It is important that you understand the distinction.

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Endzone,

That is a great companion verse to:

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing IN me.

Jesus was begotten of God and He kept Himself (From Sin).

That is why He was able to say, "The prince of this world hath nothing IN me". Not with me or for me, but IN me.

And what happens if we don't keep ourselves from sin?

The Holy Spirit is trying to show us the LINK between keeping ourselves from sin and the enemy having nothing IN me, and vice-versa, if we don't keep ourselves from sin.

Let's find some more verses. :-)

In Christ,
Sarah

Quote:

Sarah wrote: ""Philip, does that mean I should cut out all the scriptures in the Bible that teach about Satan, now?""

We don't study satan to know satan, we put on the whole armour of God to keep him out.

We don't study the counterfit to know what is a lie that deceives, we study the real that is truth, Christ; to know the counterfit and lies and scheems of the devil.

"He whose mind is kept on me, I will keep him in perfect peace".

We don't study the thief when he come in to steal and destroy, we call on our protection and apply it however we are instructed.

Do we blame what we do wrong on satan. That is the deception.

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Christ In You,
Look at this Scripture
......................................................
22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons." 25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
........................................................
It is clear that Jesus learned/studyied from the scripture about Satan and demons.He also taught others about Satan and demons.So to say that we are not to study the whole bible every jot and tittle is not scriptural.If it is in it we can study,learn and teach about it as the Spirit leads.If he hadnt studied about the subject he wouldnt have been able to refute the lies that were thrown at him.

If as you say christians cant have demons may I ask again if this blind and mute man became indwelt at a Billy Graham meeting would he be able to talk and see, straight away?yes or no

Yours Staff

Christinyou,

I see no where in Scripture that says, "I cannot study anything but Christ". That would contradict the Scripture because it teaches us about many things in addition to Christ.

If you don't have any answers, that is ok. No big deal. But, don't revert to telling people what they can or cannot study just because you don't have any adequate answers.

Why was Paul "not ignorant of the Devil's devices"?

In Christ,
Sarah

Quote:

""If as you say christians cant have demons may I ask again if this blind and mute man became indwelt at a Billy Graham meeting would he be able to talk and see, straight away?yes or no""

I don't believe a demon possessed blind and mute man would come to a Billy Graham meeting unless someone bound him in chains and drug him to the meeting for salvation, then Yes there would be outward appearance of exorcism and if God allows, he would see speak and hear.

"He whose mind is kept on Thee, Christ will keep him in perfect peace."

opposit; He whose mind is kept on satan will be kept in termoil, depression and all the other scheems of the devil which the whole armour of God when our mind is kept on Christ will protect us from. Where is our mind to be kept?If we keep our mind being renewed to the Mind of Christ, He knew satan personally and even He when confronted with satan up front and personal gave all the answers needed to put satan to flight. example; man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

I know my Savior lives in me and the Holy Spirit will give me that life understanding to keep me in perfect peace. The only thing satan has to do with me is if God allows me to be confronted or have a thorn in the flesh, His Grace is sufficient and I rejoice even in this.

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Christ in you,
..........................................................
quote -I don't believe a demon possessed blind and mute man would come to a Billy Graham meeting unless someone bound him in chains and drug him to the meeting for salvation, then Yes there would be outward appearance of exorcism and if God allows, he would see speak and hear.
...........................................................
Thank you for answering straight.I do think this is has to be a "yes" answer for if you feel that a christian cannot have a demon.
The problem with this is obvious however thousands of thousands of people have been saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit in Billy Graham crusades and to my limited knowledge I have not seen any exorcism happen nor heard of them happen either at a Billy Graham crusade.(I stand corrected if their is anyone that has other information and I would welcome input)
I could then say
1None of the thousands maybe millions of people that came to the crusades that were saved had a type of demon that manifested itself--unlikely
2.Nobody ever really got saved and indwelt at a Billy Graham crusade----Highly Unlikely
3.The Holy Spirit does not nessacarily cast out a demon when he indwells a christian(most probably because the demon cannot reside in a persons spirit)
4.Therefore a christian can have a demon that resides in the body or soul

Yours Staff

Thank God, during Jesus' 3 year ministry on earth He did not just hold seminars and conferences and crusades and make people come to Him. He went to them.

He was a homeless man that went to people's homes and walked the streets. He went to the people that needed Him because they would not have been allowed into His seminars and conferences.

The establishment could not handle him. Certainly did not want to associate with somebody like Him. No education, not good looking, just very normal, was not born in a good town and may have even been considered a bastard. He owned nothing and had no place to sleep.

He was not ceremonially clean when He ate and He hung out with dirty people.

Jesus did not come to judge, but nevertheless He had harsh words for those that did judge.

And what really blew their minds was when He cast demons out of good, weekly, synagogue goers and Sabbath observers.

Are we all sure, we are following this same Jesus?

Even in the book of Revelation, do we still think of Him as the everyday man that comes to people, or are we thinking of Him as some big powerful Messiah who is about to get His vengeance as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah?

Well, I will tell you what. He has not changed. In Revelation 3:20, he is knocking on someone's door and saying, "Hey, let me in, I want to talk with you".

On the Emmaus Road, they did not recognize Him until He broke bread. It was this mark of hospitality and serving others that caused them to recognize Him. After He resurrected, He was found having a barbecue on the beach with His disciples. The disciples all knew about His love and care for them. He demonstrated it every day.

That's our Jesus. Never pleasing Himself (Romans 15), but always looking to please others and bring them closer to Him. He is always coming to us, He always takes the initiative.

Today's "leaders" are very insulated and not found amongst the common everyday people that need God. They are found at the Christian seminars, conferences and crusades which are mostly made up of "church" people.

You can make a living writing books and making DVDs on what is wrong with the church. I am tired of reading those books and listening to sermons from anyone that spends all their time insulated from the Lost. I don't care anymore to even read or listen to great revelation from someone that spends all their time to themselves, "praying and seeking" God.

Why are we (the Church) not found amongst the lost? For the same reasons that the Pharisees were not found amongst the lost.

Think about what that reason is.

Mike

Hi Mike,
What you say is probably all correct and greatly immportant but I am not sure of the relevance to the discussion but I stand corrected.
The questions I posted I believe also have great importance
and are very practical in nature to the church.If the doctrine that christans cannot have demons is inncorrect I think it has achieved a great win for the enemy.
Their is no other way except to disscuss the topic and see what the word of God says,
In your experience evangelizing among the lost have you seen a demonic manifestation as a person was excepting Christ and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit?
Yours Staff

Hi Staff,

I have evangelized amongst the lost and found demonic manifestations many times. Most of these manifestations were irrational and angry and vulgar and the people could not be reasoned or talked with.

I will say, however, that there have been some that received the good news of Jesus Christ and they manifested a deep whimpering turning into deep crying and that is a real and valid manifestation and a sign of deliverance taking place and I have experienced this several times, especially with alcoholics and drug addicts. The whimpering was strange and in retrospect I see it as a demon knowing that he is about to be kicked out of his home (body) and he whimpers in self-pity.

I have also come into contact with religious demons in the church (much the same that Jesus came into contact with in the Pharisees) and their manifestation is very aggressive and one of a spirit of hatred and murder. They want to cut you off as soon as they possibly can.

I am sure there are many testimonies of people coming to the Lord and being delivered from demons as they came to Him. I think you would just have to talk to people that go out on the streets. I have been to Mardi Gras and Gay Pride Week in San Francisco and most definitely you will see and hear demons and they don't go quietly when they know they are about to lose their habitation.

These experiences took place in our everyday world, not in a religious setting. Religious spirits are more quiet and calculating and not openly aggressive as sexual, fleshly demons. They always try to marginalize you by making you look foolish and stupid. They are very prideful and gravitate to control and greed.

This has been my experience.

Kindly,
Mike

Thanks Mike,I was hoping some one could tell me whether or not they have experienced some deliverance taking place when a person is just coming to Christ.I think that the Holy Spirit can obviously deliver people as he is indwelling.I am sure that their are testomnies as well of this but I am sure that their are testimonys of christians being delivered from demons also.
When I became saved the meeting I went to was a healing and deliverance meeting.That was in 1988 and since them I have more or less forgotten the experience.I felt prompted to revisit this time and learn what was actually said in the bible.What I have learned is that it doesnt actually say that a demon inhabits a persons spirit.Mark 9 the demons inhabited pigs that have no spirit.The pigs probably ran over the cliff because the demon caused blindness and they stampeded.
Also I noticed that every demon would have to leave a persons body the moment they became saved if you believe a christian cannot have a demon.If this were the case their should be alot of manifestations at Billy Graham Crusades which their is no evidence of.Nor other baptist evangelists.Nor even pentecostal meetings.I think that their are times that the Holy Spirit delivers people at the time of indwelling and there are times that he does not but does it later.
I therefore believe as I did in my ignorance in 1988 that a christian can have a demon but he does not occupy the spirit.
People will say that what both of us are talking about is just experiential which is true.However as the new testament doesnt show a demon being cast out of a believer it also doesnt show manifestation of demons as they get saved.I think from acts on casting out of demons is just shown in context of evangelizing,
Yours Staff

Hi Staff,

People will say what fits their theology even though they have no experience.

A demon in someone's body does not prevent them from being saved.

Being saved is an act of the will not the emotions and not the body. Unless a person's will is completely and totally passive and unuseable then they can exercise their will and believe on the Lord Jesus.

Once a person is saved, Jesus will begin to be their Deliverer in greater and greater degrees, just like with Israel.

A demon that may be causing some kind of physical sickness if not cast out at time of salvation, may be cast out afterwards, once it is recognized.

You have to remember that demons don't like to be found out. So they hide and they have various ways of hiding from people. One way, is to give us a theology that they don't exist in Christians.

Mike

Can a demon occupy in the presence of God? I don't believe a demon could occupy in the temple of God, physical or in spirit. If we are His temple, how can a demon occupy.

Are we not a brand plucked out of the Fire.

Zechariah 3:1-2 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

I don't have to rebuke Satan, the Lord has already done it.

In Christ, His temple: Phillip

I was set free when I became born again. Free in the spirit. My spirit is born new, and it is the Spirit of Christ, but my flesh is still the same old man, even as it has been quickened to be the temple of God. My spirit has eternal life but my body is still dying and rotting to the core and my old man mind can still want the pulls of the flesh, which are body pulls, they can be influenced by who I used to be as my father was Satan, I can as Paul says not do the things I should and the things I should do I don't. If you want to call these demonic or satanic oppression, I agree, but it is from my old man mind. Demons may be able to give suggestion to my old body pulls and I may sin, but even Peter when Satan wanted to sift him, before Peter was indwelt by the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit, Jesus said He had prayed and when Peter returned to Jesus, he was to strengthen his brethren. But now we are indwelt by the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit in our soul/mind, That is all I am trying to do here, is to know the the Christ in me is stronger than he that is in this world and with my mind I can defeat Satan at any turn because of the Christ in me, and the leading of the Holy Spirit. I may slip an waver at times and be carried away by my own lust and conceive sin, even if Satan does tempt, but we have an advocate with the Father who knows already what has happened and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness in our confession. That is what the Cross is all about, where Satan was defeated and I entered Gods Rest, which is Christ.

In Christ, In Christ, In Christ and He in me: Phillip

Correction: Demons can occupy what man allows, too.

Jesus-is-God is always pushing that Christians who believe that demons can establish strongholds within them are blaming demons on their sin. Yet, I have read time and time again, that these Christian say that is not the case. The truth is that Christians OPEN doors to the enemy to establish strongholds in their lives THROUGH SIN. I don't know how many times everyone has to keep saying this for Jesus-is-God to stop misrepresenting their statements.

Amen, Staff, Julius, Mikey and Approved.

Awesome post, Approved.

You see it is quite academic isn't it, whether you are demonized, demon oppressed, or demon possessed somewhere in your body? Does it really matter? No! The demon spirit has established a stronghold in you and this is a weak area of your life that is constantly causing you trouble. Don't stumble at terminology when the enemy has established a stronghold in you or on you. Many of you think that since the Holy Spirit is joined to your spirit that nothing else can come inside your body. Well then, why would the Holy Spirit let anything come ON your body? Say on the outside? You see, that won't hold up either. The fact of the matter is that Christians open doors to demon spirits through sin and their body is also attacked by spirits of infirmity.

So, the enemy needs to be cast out, cast off or cast away. Who cares what you want to call it. It is really academic, because the main thing is that you need to be delivered from it's hold on you and it's power over you.

Approved is right. As you pray and fast and draw close to the Lord, you will obtain freedom from the Lord concerning the stronghold in your life and many times you won't have any manifestation except the joy of the Lord will return to you as you are once again filled to overflowing with Spirit of God and His peace. Other times, there will be manifestations.

I really thought Christians knew about this sort of thing until I started reading this thread.

In Christ,
Sarah

It's already been done many, many times, Jesus-is-God.

You don't like our proof, or you just don't want to "see" it for some reason. It makes me wonder what happened in your life that prevents you from seeing the obvious.

In Christ,
Sarah

Jesus-is-God,

No, I am not blaming demons for our sin.

Again, just like Israel of old, we sin and rebel and this opens doors to the enemy and it is basically God's judgement, if you can handle that.

I stopped being impressed a long time ago at how much people studied or how many books they read. Real life and what works, is where the rubber meets the road and it either proves or disproves God's Word.

Going to bed, dear sister.

Sleep well,
Sarah

Where do demons occupy?

In unbelievers.

Be careful what you believe

Staff,

I am currently reading Arthur Zepp's E-book on Demon Activity In The Last Times.

It is one of the best books I have read on the subject.

Written in 1921. Many case histories in it.

http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/e-books/holiness/Zepp/Demon/DALindex.htm

And some of his other books.
http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/e-books/holiness/Authors/Arthur%20Zepp.htm

From Chapter 6

"Again for demons to gain possession, they must have ground, a point of entrance. Paul terms it giving place to the devil. "Neither give place to the devils." Disobedience is the great source of demons gaining entrance. "The God of this world has blinded the minds of them that obey not."

Much of the so-called backsliding is by the entering in again of the former evil spirit, accompanied by reinforcements of seven other evil spirits worse than himself, so that the last state is worse than the first. Yet the faithful Christ will rescue His own."

From Chapter 8

"But why should demons obsess, possess, and rule the personality of man? Is there any advantage to the demon? Evidently there is.

Possession by demons of the body, mind, or soul of man (for we conceive .they possess either separately or dominate all) relieves or rests the demon. Some unaccountable demon instinct is gratified thereby. Jesus' contact with the poor Gadarene demoniac shows the advantage to the demons of possessing or indwelling the human body.

Hear the demon's language: "I adjure thee by God, that thou torment est not." For Jesus said unto him, "Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit." See here double or dual personality, the second personality, the demon's usurping the man's normal personality, and dominating it, and speaking through his organs of articulation. See also the confession of the demon indirectly that he was resting from torment temporarily while he possessed the man and was undiscovered and that his discovery by Jesus and calling oat, or exorcising, was torment to him and the end of his rest! "I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not." How? By casting out.

That demons find rest by dwelling in men is shown by Jesus' account of the unclean spirit being cast out of a man. He, the unclean spirit, goeth about in dry places. What does the demon go about for? Jesus says, seeking rest. How? In the disembodied state? Nay! In the dry places? Nay! But by seeking some human being whom he can obsess or attack and deceive into giving him entrance, or possession.

Then he finds the coveted rest. And so insistent is the demon on finding the rest that he gets reinforcements from seven other spirits worse than himself, and beats down or overpowers the man's defenses, the man's unrest beginning at the same time with the demon's rest. Disembodiment, or casting out the demon from the man, reverses this state-it torments the demon, ends his rest, and rests his victim (e. g., the man who, after he was delivered, was found clothed, in his right mind, at rest at the feet of Jesus). By indwelling men demons gain temporary rest from torment before their time."

These are short and concise chapters.

Mike

Quote:

""If a backslidden person dies without repenting, they won't be saved.""

""If, as Paul did, a person's body is turned over to Satan that their spirit may be 'saved', all they need to do is repent - as the man who slept with his step-mother did. There's no record of demons being expelled from him, he only repented and was forgiven.""

Isn't this a contridiction? If the spirit is saved and the body is turned over to satan, and God to save the spirit, how can they not be saved.

If they are saved, they are saved. If sin is to much in a saved persons life, I believe God will take His child home.

In Christ: Phillip

Hi all,just had a really tiring day and want to catch up at the posts.
I was thinking about it on and off today and I cant get away from why at the likes of Billy Graham crusades that we see no demon manifestation which we should do according to scripture if a christian cannot have a demon.
I think but correct me if I am wrong but I think both sides of our discussion agree that their should be demon manifestation in some cases not all when a person becomes indwelt by the Holy Spirit if a christian cannot have a demon,
I will take a further look at what has been said,
Thanks Staff

No where in scripture, after Antioch where Saved Persons were first called Christians is there one instance of a Christian being Demon Possessed, maybe that is why there is no manifestations. Even if there were, the demon would have to confront the Spirit of Christ, no fanfare, "Go" the demon must leave. Now we are possessed with the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit and even God the Father with Christ makes their abode with us. Pretty good protection from the enemy.

In Christ: Phillip

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Hi Philip,
In fairness the subject is not covered in depth after Antioch full stop either non christian or christian.
I am not talking about manifestations in Christians but in People who are just at the moment of indwelling.Their is no scripture to say that demons stopped behaving differently(manifesting in some cases) than previously when confronted by Christ,unless you are saying Christ didnt have enough power and authority.
Also why at the likes of Billy Graham meetings do we not alone see no manifestations but we dont see blind seeing and deaf hearing and the mute talking as people are just coming to Christ and being indwelt?
...........................................................
Quote:No where in scripture, after Antioch where Saved Persons were first called Christians is there one instance of a Christian being Demon Possessed, maybe that is why there is no manifestations. Even if there were, the demon would have to confront the Spirit of Christ, no fanfare, "Go" the demon must leave. Now we are possessed with the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit and even God the Father with Christ makes their abode with us. Pretty good protection from the enemy.
...........................................................

Yours Staff

Staff,

Here is an example of delivering someone from demonic possession. Why doesn't it happen in America. Do we know that it does not happen? Maybe not in Billy Graham crusades but Billy Graham crusades are not the litmus test, necessarily.

http://www.spiritablaze.com/deliver.htm

Here is this Pastor's testimony.

Since childhood, the call to help those who are suffering from all kinds of sicknesses and diseases, those poor ones who were so desperate for help, stayed with me.

As a young pastor, I made the following statement that shocked some of the older and more mature pastors, “Unless God moves in power and confirms His Word by healing the sick whenever I pray, I will quit the ministry. I refuse to be in ministry unless God answers in power.” Their dissatisfaction of this young and immature man was obvious.

Read more...
http://www.spiritablaze.com/testimonies.htm#louw

In Christ,
Sarah

Hi Sarah,
I think thats exactly why Billy Graham crusades are the litmus.
The thing is he doesnt do casting out demons etc and thousands and thousands have been saved at his meetings.
It would be ridiculas to think that over all his meetings over all the years that not one person came to christ that didnt have a type of demon that manifests or not one person with demon that causes blindness,deafness or lack of speech at a Billy Graham crusade.Their must be thousands.
The only better litmus would be a successful evangelist that is totally anti a christian having a demon theology.
Are their any on sermonindex?
Your staff

Hi Jesus is God,
I didnt get to look at Sarahs link yet,so I wont comment on that.
I agree with you totally the last thing we want to do is confuse a move of demons with a move of God.
God is a God of order and the whole deliverance tv evangelist thing is a sick joke.
Even if I am right and christians can have demons,the whole process must be handled carefully and correctly,Yours Staff

Hi Approved,
I enjoyed that article thank you.
If I had a pleasure of talking to Billy Graham,I could ask him the question,
Mr Graham you have seen hundreds of thousands come to Christ in your life time,Have you seen thousands and thousands of demonic manifestations and people seeing,hearing and speaking after the demons leave?
What would his answer be?
Yours Staff

Quote:- I think but correct me if I am wrong but I think both sides of our discussion agree that their should be demon manifestation in some cases not all when a person becomes indwelt by the Holy Spirit if a christian cannot have a demon.

There are two different ways demons can work demonic possession and demonic influence.

Possession is where you are controled by a devil where as demonic influence is where you are influenced to act a ceratin way..

For example if there is an area of your life that is Unsanctified the Devil will see that area and he will attack you in that area. If you fall and sin you have manifested what you where being influnced to do..

Demonic influence operates through what you think, by what you hear, what you see and what you feel (your emotions)...

Hi Murrcolr,
Nice to hear from you,I am talking about demon possession that causes deaf,blindness and lack of speech and that manifests itself has it leaves yours staff

Question; Does anyone know of any angel of God possessing a person?

2nd Question; Why is it that we have demonic angelic possession?

3rd Question; If God the Father birthes His Son in us and exchanges our spirit from satan to Christ in the believer and the Holy Spirit also, who is in charge, God or satan?

Christ in you: Phillip