What percentage of false doctrine does a speaker have to have to be considered a false prophet? If a speaker is deemed a false prophet because he speaks 1% false doctrine, then wouldn't EVERY pastor and speaker be deemed a false prophet? I mean, EVERYBODY has said SOMETHING ignorantly (false) at least once in their ministry, haven't they? (Except for Jesus, of course!)
An honest error - one made in ignorance is vastly different from one that is explained and taught.
My understanding....
hi, why on these forums do people always speak to the negative? they look down their sinfull,proud noses at others who are not perfect and listen to every word just waiting for the misstatement that is bound to happen and opine on it;somewhat reminding me of the accuser of the brethren.we need to be known by our love for one another and not our perfection in doctrine and speech. len ravenhill told me not to listen to him without checking what he said by the word because he said he was as dumb as any other preacher.a conduit is a conduit and should not be praised or put down. God is the only annointed One and he uses conduits to bless people. we are all sinners who without Jesus would be destined for a eternity in hell.jimp
False prophets are known by their FRUIT, we have all done things in ignorance, and until we receive light on it, we will continue to do so..So let us seek Him while He may be found..For we are all unrighteous without His guiding arm..
Though if it is not done in ignorance, but knowingly leading the sheep astray then this I think would be considered a false prophet, a wolf.
Your hunger for truth is commendable. I am interested also in some of the questions you asked denem.
Hi denem777 I too sense that you ask an honest question, although you seemed to have been rebuked for it :) Consider this ....
Gal 2:4 But because of those false brothers stealing in, who stole in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus; they desiring to enslave us;
Gal 2:5 to whom not even for an hour did we yield in subjection, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
It is good to use discernment. Paul did not rest, night and day for three years warning the Body of wolves in sheeps clothing that would come in to scatter the flock. There was obviously a reason why he spent so much of his time warning the folks. A very obvious example would be Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. There were warnings about this man but sadly they were mostly ignored by the people who attended his church and they paid the ultimate price.
There is a very real difference from a preacher and a prophet, they are different offices although at Gods good pleasure He can overlap it. And so many preachers hold to different doctrines, so many of which have been thrashed out here on this very site. Holding to a different interpretation does not make someone a false Prophet. Here is a pretty good rule of thumb brother, if someone tells you that they are are a Prophet, in other words, a self proclaimed Prophet, you can pretty much be sure that they are not...........brother Frank
hi, i perceive you are a true prophet. i did not rebuke the writer,as i have seen more and more watchmen with no walls and no sheep and no commision to watch.paul was responsible for the sheep he apostled.if you are a pastor you have every right to protect your sheep as God leads.self appointed watchmen who do not weep and pray for those they blog about being false teahers and false prophets without having to face these men and women face to face and offer biblical discipine is gossip at best.i know a lot of the men who have been demeaned as heretics and liars and know a lot of them are off the track in a lot of different areas but for the most they love the Lord and are decieved of satan .have mercy on stupidity and pray and avoid those whose fruit do not add up to christian living .we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
what I don't understand on these threads is why certain ones feel the need to constantly correct the rest of us with personal attacks instead of answering the question. I think this is a legit question and have pondered it myself. I feel this example from experience is a good one. Once while at a sidewalk cafe with a pastor friend we discussed the way many misuse scripture. I mentioned the way many use "good measured,pressed down,shaken together and running over will men give into your bosom' as a money scripture. When in context it follows a discourse of Jesus' on loving your enemies, forgiveness and judging. He agreed. two weeks later while visiting his church I heard this same man use this scripture to extract a bigger "offering" from "his people".
This to me is a false teacher/prophet. one who has seen but refuses to walk in the light while also hindering or forbiding others from walking in the light. I as a Pastor taught things in the past (WOF) that were false doctrine.I did this because I was blind, deceived. But when the light came I refused to teach those things any longer. had i continued the I as well would have been a false teacher.
Enochh wrote:
"I as a Pastor taught things in the past (WOF) that were false doctrine.I did this because I was blind, deceived. But when the light came I refused to teach those things any longer. had i continued the I as well would have been a false teacher."
Enochh, what you did is rare. Many false teachers will get angry when confronted, will work to defend their 'doctrine'. For a preacher to be teachable by another or a lesser is rare. God bless you, brother. Your testimony is an encouragement...you see I do not know of any false teachers who have repented of their apostasy.
ginnyrose
jimp...hi, why on these forums do people always speak to the negative? they look down their sinfull,proud noses at others who are not perfect and listen to every word just waiting for the misstatement that is bound to happen and opine on it;somewhat reminding me of the accuser of the brethren.
My only "guess" would be even some Christians like drama.
Enochh wrote.........
" I as a Pastor taught things in the past (WOF) that were false doctrine.I did this because I was blind, deceived. But when the light came I refused to teach those things any longer. had i continued the I as well would have been a false teacher."
Well that was a breath of fresh air, God bless you brother for your humility. It reminds me of Peters reaction to Paul who rebuked him publicly. Peter calls a council to see if he may be wrong, awesome, especially when you consider what kind of personality Peter had. Truly a work of the Spirit to change the very naturE of a man.....brother Frank
Satan needs a few good men to transmit false doctrine. Much of the time they are very sincere and believe what they are teaching. That is why it is called "deception".
Peter was sincere and God sent Paul to straighten him out.
Julius
Peter was not teaching false doctrine. He was teaching one thing and acting another. He was a hypocrite, not a false teacher.
Krispy
Removed by poster
(The Holy Spirit compelled me to...)
"Peter was not teaching false doctrine. He was teaching one thing and acting another. He was a hypocrite, not a false teacher."
The comment on Peter was in regard to Enoch's humility in admitting that he was wrong. Peter was rebuked, publicly, and responded in a way that could only have been directed by the Spirit, especially when you consider Pater's nature. Just as an aside Krispy, it was a doctrinal matter, but this is not what this thread is about.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they did not walk uprightly with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before all, If you, being a Jew, live as a Gentile, and not as the Jews, why do you compel the nations to judaize?
In the context of Galatians 2 and especially Gal 2:4 , this was certainly a doctrinal matter, enough to call a council over it, the first council ever. Yet again, and back to the original posters question, there is a difference between doctrinal differences, interpretations and a false prophet. One can be wrong doctrinally and not be a false prophet, which is what Enoch so humbly alluded too................brother Frank
You are correct that it was a doctrinal matter. Peter had taught the proper doctrine, but he failed to live it out 100%. With one group of people he taught it and lived it, but with another group of people he hid it and lived opposite.
:-)
There is a difference between a pastor who teaches something that can be debated, and has been debated for centuries... and a pastor who preaches against orthodoxy. And we all change in our theology over time. Thats called growth and sanctification.
As for so-called "prophets"; if you presume to speak for God with a "thus says the Lord" then what comes out of your mouth had better be 100%.
Krispy
hi krispy, you hit it on the head... i had a couple weird things the Lord led me to speak and one took 25 years to come to pass. i repented of this for many of those years for it had no logic to it at all.i told a pastor of a small church that if he would continue to send people out to bless other churches around the city.God would bless him with a church in the south and inthe west.that was 40 years ago when multi campuses was unheard of.it has come to pass.
Well, thats not really what I was talking about.
I'm saying that my theology evolved and grew over the past 10 years. When we're babes in Christ we say all kinds of ignorant things... and as time goes by and we grow up in the Lord and gain more understanding into scripture we begin to speak from knowledge and not from ignorance.
I wasnt speaking of prophecy. People come here and lay out these loooong prophecies that the Lord is supposed to have given them... "things will wax worse and worse" and so on and so forth... and I bite my tongue because my usual reaction is "Duh! Thats what the Bible says! We're already told that!"
Krispy
Sherid,
I read your testimony...all I can say is that God was/is merciful to you and for that we can praise the LORD!
"When I first heard a Christian warn me, I laughed them off, thinking to myself that they were a Pharisee and judgemental and so I opened myself up to the teaching that I was warned about."
Nothing new about this...
"I guess what I am trying to say is that there are many who judge others for trying to discern when it is a necessary gift to use."
Absolutely true.
If we would only take heed to the red flags that pop up, we could spare ourselves a lot of grief. Too many times we argue with the voice that is within and go our own way to our own hurt.
God bless you for sharing, Sherid.
ginnyrose
Sherid,
I am going to be praying for you. Please pray for me as well. I live by Redding and was also caught up in what Bethel had to offer. I was delivered from it by God. Praise his name. We must be discerning. These are perilous times. I am so thankful that Jesus is coming back soon to establish his everlasting kingdom that will smash Satan's kingdom of darkness, like a Rock smashes a brittle clay statue.
Peace in Christ,
Travis
Only if it pertains to the CORE doctrines of the faith, such as those concerning the deity of Christ, salvation, redemption, the Trinity, etc. If a person is teaching ANYTHING false on ANY of the CORE doctrines upon which salvation rests then it does not matter if it is only 1%, that person is a false teacher. A false teacher is someone who teaches damnable heresies; teaching which can damn a soul.
However, if it is merely a matter of doctrines concerning FOR EXAMPLE whether the spiritual gifts operate today or not, that is a different story. A person is NOT a heretic if they disagree on these more minor doctrines upon which salvation does NOT rest.
Amen Sister Sherid. Read your testimony some time ago and know The LORD allowed that experience so that you can come out from it and witness to those who may be drawn that way or are in it now. He 'foreknew' that you'd come out from it and He also stengthened your husband's resolve toward "truth" through it all.
I've known Ed Tarkowski through the internet since I first came online in 2002. Thanking GOD that his message was on M'kayla's site for you to find.
This last evening I was on the phone with a sister who was forced by her church to attend meetings with some of those that you mentioned in your testimony and saw horrendous things in Toronto that were all recorded on videos.
The LORD allows some to go in and come out to help others.
If everyone that tries to reach others that have been deceived, yet were never touched personally by the deception themselves - those who are deceived could say - "How would you know or understand what is wrong with all of this? - Have you tried these things?"
I have rejoiced since you first put your blog into your signature and also for when I first read your blog some time ago.
Your husband and you have done well. We need more articles like those on the net.
The LORD Bless & protect Ed T's and the Carters' ministries and any others like them out there. Amen.
The question really is not about false prophets. Thats not what people are addressing here. Anyone who gives a "prophecy" and it doesnt come true is declared a false prophet by scripture and we are not to be afraid of such a man. I dont care what these WOF or pentecostal "prophets" say... if they give a false prophecy they are by definition a false prophet.
What most folks here seem to be addressing is false teachers. There is room for grace in issues not pertaining to salvation or who Jesus is. But scripture warns of those who preach "another Jesus" or salvation. We can debate tongues or Bible versions all day... it doesnt make one a false teacher (except for those who claim you're not saved if you have never spoken in tongues or read a version of the Bible they dont like. Then the issue is not tongues or the Bible, but legalism and works righteousness).
Krispy
Hi CyAn, you wrote..........
"However, if it is merely a matter of doctrines concerning FOR EXAMPLE whether the spiritual gifts operate today or not, that is a different story. A person is NOT a heretic if they disagree on these more minor doctrines upon which salvation does NOT rest."
I would have to disagree on that point. Not that a person is a heretic, but that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is a minor issue, I believe it to be a huge issue.Obviously, in comparison to someone's actual salvation then everything would be minor. An example for me of a minor issue would be one's opinion on the end times, pre-trib and so on........brother Frank
Good points.
Sadly, most people who fancy themselves as "prophets" are just not the real deal.
This is unfortunately true of most people who operate under the belief that they are uttering words under the inspiration of God and those who declare as certainties the often controversial yet minor doctrinal views that they hold and present them as "fundamentals" of the faith. They often subsequently treat those who disagree (or hesitate to believe by testing their words) as lesser believers, immature, closed-minded or even as if they are unsaved.
Leonard Ravenhill used to say that a prophet doesn't need to announce to everyone that he operates in such a calling or by such a gift. People will know.
I agree that there is a difference between a believer or minister who is simply and sincerely incorrect in his doctrine and those who are eager to loudly proclaim certain things or use those things as a prerequisite for fellowship. Many times, it is reflected by the attitude by which they present such things...or the manner by which they approach those who either disagree or aren't willing to accept offhand. And, as Frank says, there are minor issues that are more or less differences of opinions rather than issues that should serve to divide the Church along sectarian grounds.
Regardless, I think that we should ALWAYS test the things that we hear or are taught. I think that a true prophet would welcome such Biblical scrutiny. Moreover, if a person who claims to be a prophet is found to be false or perpetually incorrect (especially in regard to major doctrines, repetitious ambiguities or supernatural claims [such as dates for specific disasters]), then it is probably wise for that person to sit down and remain quiet for a while lest they bring reproach to the Body of Christ.
Unfortunately, the gift and calling of real prophets are often difficult to recognize. It is like a worker who is hired to find perfect jelly beans. A trained eye might find them quickly. However, if that perfect jelly bean is located in a barrel of slightly flawed jelly beans, it is difficult to tell the difference.
My wife and I recently toured the Jelly Belly factory in Fairfield, California. The jelly beans that are flawed or imperfect are packed into bags and sold as "Belly Flops." The tour guide admitted that many good jelly beans are packaged with them, because it would be too difficult to find and separate good ones from the many bad ones in a batch. So, the company will often discard entire batches as flawed -- even when many near-perfect beans are present in that batch.
As silly an anecdote that this may be, it reminded me how a few bad examples or false teachers reflect upon the Church as a whole. It is easier for the world to lump all such individuals into one batch.
I pray that true prophets can be easily distinguished from the mundane who only fancy themselves in such a position, gift and/or calling.
Mmmm... Jelly Belly's!
We'll shall call that Jelly Belly Theology!
Krispy
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