Christians and mental illness...

Sis, do you truly believe that mental "illness" is a physiological problem - as in, a brain chemistry or other physical type of disorder?

I've posted antipsychiatry.org elsewhere, with their many links at the bottom of their page. It's a secular site but that's what we need to disprove the secular theory of what causes one to behave abnormally/irrationally.

I believe the help for her - if she's truly a Christian - is no different than what you and your husband are already quite acquainted with.

You'll recognize these links and I felt to post them before the entourage of replies come and opens that door again.
Once that topic is re-opened - there are few that care to involve themselves to untangle the web that can cause the young or vulnerable in Christ to get tangled up in - ie. 'deceived and debilitated by'.

The second link is from a link off of the first link -

http://inerrantword.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/contending-with-the-devil-jude-9/#more-164

http://www.spiritualwarfaredeliverance.com/html/christian-demon-possessed-no.html

I understand that you believe in pre-trib, but nonetheless - we're living in very dangerous times that will only get worse spiritually and we surely don't need to feed the vulnerable any more of the nonsense that we've seen within this year here.

As things get worse in the world and lies are perpetuated as fast as technology can move - Unless a person is solidly grounded in The Word and where they stand in Christ - the future will be very dismal for them. Deceptions could over-take, victories lost through fears and lies being fed into their minds by the enemy of their souls, etc.
As long as one believes either lie - 1- that Christians can be demon indwelt and 2- the myth of mental "illness", the future indeed will not find them in a victorious state because both beliefs are from the father-of-lies to begin with. To believe a lie is to sink - as you well know.
To believe a lie is to be accountable before GOD for lessening the work that Christ did upon the cross. Once a person has lessened His Word on our behalf, they are wide open to attacks of lies from the enemy or the secularists of this world. Fear sets in and they have problems being delivered after a while. The whole of our warfare is not believing any lies against His Word. The "imagination" itself is a mighty powerful force, once a person believes any of these lies.

"Behavioral" problems are no different than what people go through in these false revivals. The way to deliverance from these behavioral problems is no different than what you are familiar with, as far as how to be set free from that deception.

If the person who has behavioral problems is told that it is because there is something physically wrong with their mind and they need meds to stop their irrational behavior - they'll 'buy that lie' rather than get GODLY counsel, as those who have come out of the false-revival movement have received.

Once a person buys the mental-illness lie that was cooked up by secularists and worse - they have 'believed a lie' and are now subject to not having to truly deal with their behavior and the lies that they are now increasingly buying on a daily basis with this 'label'/diagnosis is setting them up for the ultimate fall eventually or soon enough.
Error breeds more error, and you know the rest.

Unless the person has been exposed to some bacterial, viral or fungal infection of the brain that causes a form of encephalopathy or a brain injury, the causes are not physical. The line between sanity and insanity is in how a person 'chooses' to "cope" with what life throws at us.

If the person is a Christian, they need counseling to un-believe the lie of mental "illness" first. If it's a case of PTSD, the healing comes about the same way, by renewing the mind by The Word, prayer and working through faith, with obedience. The rest is dealing directly with the irrational, un-Biblically based thoughts that precede the unscriptural behavior or 'acting out'.
The thoughts need to be renewed by The Word of GOD and prayer and a desire toward 'willing to do the will of the Father' -- so free-will is the issue in this, very much so. Many times we find that the root of such problems is unforgiveness, self-pity, the desire for attention, or hatred or resentment toward someone in their lives.

Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and that word in the Greek that's translated as witchcraft is "pharmakeia" - where we get our word "pharmaceuticals and pharmacy" from.

There is no condemnation for those who have believed a lie and forgiveness is full and free to those who have given into to unscriptural behavior, of course. They need to begin to un-believe the lie and take responsibility for all of their actions and will to do the will of GOD - being transformed by the renewing of their minds by The Word, prayer and obedience. Taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. The same process that those who believe any lie would have to go through, except for the fact that their body now needs to be weaned from the pharmakeia. All of this can be called a process of 'healing', as a person sets their face as a flint toward Him - He is faithful to move on their behalf, once the lie is renounced and responsibility for ones behavior is received back by the person.

Loving the them, fasting and praying for them and taking them down the road of responsibility for their own actions, according to His Word and by the Word, is the path to freedom. Irrational or sinful behavior will always be something that we are and will be accountable for, before GOD. Even the unsaved. I know that sounds 'hard', but I see nothing less than that in The Word. Only those who teach that we have no free will would say otherwise.
Even those who were abused as infants can be healed by the same means - as unbelievable as that might sound. Our GOD is a mighty powerful Creator and knows exactly how to heal those that He's known from before the foundation of the world. There are many potential super Saints / Overcomers out there, just needing to un-believe a lie or two.

I understand that what I've written goes against the tide of what we've heard since Freud, etc - but being sola-scriptura will always be against the tide.

His Love & Grace to you & yours.

You've brought up some really good points Renouncer.

Those in the other camp of psychiatry found in 'their' testing of individuals that the "thoughts and behavior" started first and 'then' the brain chemistry was affected.

Made Biblical sense to me. We read about the affects of anger and hatred and bitterness and unforgiveness and there's no doubt in my mind that those sinful feelings, if left unchecked for lengths of time would have affects on the body's chemistry. We know that 'stress' is a killer - just for one and these same negative feelings listed above is also a form of 'stress'.

Short term medicating is alright. But there's so much to all of this, that some is medical wisdom and we being Christians depend so much on the Holy Spirit to discern what is going on with a person. Like I've said before on another thread - I studied and was going into psychology/psychiatry until I got saved and also began to study William Glasser's work. His one book "Reality Therapy" was an eye opener in that he doesn't go over and over people's pasts and childhoods, he just makes them take charge of the here and now behaviors. It's much more complex than that - but a long story short - what he came up with back in the 60's until present, turns out to be Scriptural, though he titled his other book "Choice Theory" as it turns out - that lines up with His Word and with the research done by others found on that Antipsychiatry.org site.
As I said, I use the secular psychiatrists that debunk the slip-shod practices of today, where a patient is paying a psychiatrist the same amount for what would be a talk session and all they get now is the prescription pad and refills or higher doses or another added.
If I could remember the name of the forum that I used to visit and talk with these poor people, they were all saying the same thing. No more talking with their shrink - just the same or changed or added prescriptions.

I loved your testimony. Demon possession is definitely on the rise with the unsaved. These people need Christians that are truly not fearful and Know where they stand protected in Christ, to help them.

Amen, Bless GOD he gave you the Word to give this man and the leading to pray. Bless The LORD. May we all grow in Him and in the knowledge of His leading and where 'we' stand with Him in order to help set the captive free.

Blessings!!

I see no difference between physical illnesses treated with medication and mental illnesses treated with medication. To paint mental illness with such a broad brush and suggest that one needing medication is "buying into a lie” is dangerous advice and a disservice to those suffering from various forms of mental illness.
Would you give a person suffering physically the same advice to "not believe the lie" that they are physically ill.
Medication would not be necessary at all in any case if I follow your logic.

Hi DesertRose,

"Mental" illness is different than say, diabetes.

Sis, what does the Word say about "the mind" or our "thoughts"? The verses are plenty. Just a quick check on the word "mind" in the KJV and the mind is mentioned 56 times.

Would GOD commmand anyone to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ - or "let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus" --- but only if your mind is not "sick" [with an illness]?

Sis, I've studied this for more yrs than I've even been into the Bible and I've been into the Bible for 35 yrs, [I'm a 'Senior citizen' now] so this one field was my burden from a very young age and I still read the latest findings and the opposing view points from the other psychiatric researchers and practicing 'professionals' in this field.

There are two schools of thought. I once was into the traditional school - the one that you are speaking from.
Later I was introduced to a group of psychiatrists that have given their lives to research mental "illness" and these were secular as well as Christian psychologists, psychiatrists and bio-researchers.

Those into psycho-pharmacology have done more harm to human beings than any newer branch of 'medicine' than any others.

I said in my second post that medication was meant to be a temporary help - just as you mentioned - until the person can be worked with and that's something that the other school of secular psychiatrists would also say - nonetheless Christian researchers.

There is ample evidence that the mind is not "sick" - but the person's 'thinking' is what's sick and that their minds need someone to see if the person is willing to reprogram their old methods of thinking [to put it in the simplest form]. But even in the secular methods of psycho-therapy - even that has been replaced by psycho-pharmacology.

There is ample evidence that proves out that any chemistry imbalance, etc comes after long-term "sick thinking" - UNLESS there has been some actual physical damage to the brain.

Again - What does The Word of GOD say about our minds and what we're to do with them? How could GOD just give flat out commands on what we're to do with our minds, if there are "Christians" out there that are "unable to".

Where in the Word do we see any Born-Again Christian as being "sick in their minds"?

Psycho-pharmacology is a newer form of treating "sick thinking & behavior". What was used in Bible times?

We're people of The Word and if there IS another large group of even secular psychiatrists that have researched and come to the conclusion, years ago, until this present day - that mental "illness" is a misnomer - are you open to that research?

I think you gave my post a quick read and fell back on what you know of the more prevelant view that's being pushed on the world and reacted from that one view point soley, without the research into the other researchers in this field - but more importantly - as Christians - how do we apply The Word to these type situations, where a mind is thinking irrationally and causing irrational 'behavior' as well?

Deception or "false thinking" begins in the mind. Whether it's self-generated or demonically instigated - The Word of GOD and His Spirit does not desire that any true Regenerated child of His, have false-irrational-thinking but a sound mind.

We as mature Christians need to learn to operate in His Spirit and by His Word and bring those who desire a sound mind, into that sound mind that Christ has promised to deliver us into.

That takes one on one ministry but cannot happen when one is being taught that they have an incurable "illness" and I find that so very sad because I've seen so many go down that path and it's not a path of Victory or "life and life more abundant" that He died to give them - but mental anguish that in many cases is a "choice".

Countless books would be needed to back up the evidence of the lies coming out of psychiatry but I did give that one secular site www.antipsychiatry.org if anyone is open to hearing from those secular Drs that are struggling to set people free from a big industry called pharma, for short.

But more importantly, please pray and read His Word and see if He would speak to this issue of sick minds. Thank you, Sis!

Twice I mentioned that medical conditions can affect the brain.

'That' is a topic outside of what this thread is about.

What "christian scientists" have to do with this discussion, I haven't a clue, but I also mentioned that these people who are wanting help from their irrational thoughts need one-on-one ministry and not to "just believe they are well".

At the least, on this forum, we should actually read the full posts of those we are opposing and not misrepresent a brother or sister in Christ.

The reason it is advisable to not make a person dependent on drugs is the side affects that are even worse than the problem the person is taking the drugs for.

There are large law-suits against two anti-depressant drugs presently for women who gave birth to deformed babies.

There has also been enough news of the violence and suicide that these anti-depressants have been responisible for.

There are also law suits for 'tardive dyskinesia' a hell on earth side affect from anti-psychotic drugs and neuroleptics that are being handed out so generously in this generation.

The list goes on for side affects and I ask - Is This GOD's perfect will for His Creation? Man's solution of experimental drugs? The newer drugs have no long term research behind them. And one by one these newer drugs that big pharma give Drs perks to prescribe are winding up in court for the damage done. "Death" is a damage that is incurable.

The answer to this is found in The Word of GOD.

A Christian should be so filled with His Word and His Spirit that they'd be able to minister to anyone that truly wants His help.

I wouldn't post on these things unless I had "tried Him" on these things for so many years and everytime, HE is Faithful to every Word that He has written. Praise our LORD! Our Creator and Great Physician is Real. He knows our hearts and how we are formed. He knows how to lead with and for, each individual by His Spirit.
We can experience a Book of Acts / N.T. Church with confidence.
His Word and His Spirit are True, Alive and Trustworthy.
It is all Very much amazing to me even still. We can walk in confidence that He whom the Son sets Free, is Free indeed. We all go through daily battles and will until we see Him Face to face - but He is Faithful and to His Word.

The Peace that passes All understanding is for all of His Sheep. ~ Isaiah 53 ~

His Blessings and revelation of His Glory to you dear Brother.

I once read that we should not go into a territory to minister "unless we have been through the situation or trial already ourselves".

I have zero confidence in the flesh - but have learned to only Trust in His Word and His Spirit alone through a life that has been tested to the extreme on this very issue, from birth until right up unto this day and have the medical records and more to prove this.

Rom 8:37-39 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We all will be tested by the world, the flesh and the devil.
His Blessed Hope for us is that we will trust Him and His Word with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength because He Loves us.
HE is Trust-worthy and a Great Deliverer. O, Alleluia to The Lamb!

Sherid, I found a book I read when it came out and just found it now as an e-book.

It was endorsed by Leonard Ravenhill, plus - and helped a lot of folks get on track - with not a few other books that followed, of how to truly help folks as a ministry.

This was the first of a series.

http://www.pamweb.org/e-books/PH-ebkn.pdf

Bless you & yours!

Hi and Welcome Hopeful!

So Blessed that you said - "I'm a Christian". Amen!

Secondly - you recognise that the "fear of not really being a Christian seems to be at the heart of it."

There's many questions that should be asked but the solution is always the same - Thank GOD only!

Some questions would be -

How long have you been Saved?

What type ministries have you sat under and what type books have you read?

What type people do you live with or associate with?

Do you feel convicted of some terrible and particular, obvious to you only, sin?

Is your homelife peaceful?

Is there anyone in your life, presently, that makes you feel anxious?

Can you pin point when this started and have you ever experienced the Peace of GOD and the joy of your salvation since you've known Him?

Have you been used by GOD since you've known Him?

Would you consider yourself a person that knows His Word?

Have you experienced good times in prayer since you've known Him?

How do you feel that you have failed Him, enough to no longer be Saved?

Do you still pray for others and feel faith that GOD will answer for these people?

You don't have to answer these on here, but they may give you an idea about yourself and if you may just be under attack from the outside by the enemy - the accuser of the brethren. Rev 12:17

The Blessings of His Sweet Peace to you and Rest.
Rest for as long as you need to, but read His Word as much as you can while you're resting.

If you're in an environment where it's difficult to get rest - we can pray about that also.

The LORD Jesus Bless you and He'll keep you - even if your faith is thinner than a hair's breath.

Shalom and don't ever give up the fight!