Can Love For God be Separated from Obedience ?

"Can Love be Separated from Obedience?"

No.

Love is a command. Therefore, you cannot separate the two.

Anymore thoughts?

faith and love cannot be separated from obedience.faith which worketh by love...faith is hearing a word from God,noah ,iwant you to build an ark... believing the word and obeying the word.noah built an ark to the saving of his family.he heard a lot of grief from his nieghbors but he loved his family and loved God.

Another question to be purposed for discussion, if love and obedience can't be seperate does this mean when one disobeys they don't love God?

Oh, if it were so simple or as black and white as we have made it out to be in this thread!!

As I look back on raising my children and how disobedient they were at times, I know they loved me and their father. I also look back on my walk with the Lord and how disobedient I have been at times and I know I have loved the Lord.

God created us with the ability to choose right from wrong, obedience from disobedience AND He also gave us the mind to submit to His authority or not. Sadly, some of us learn faster than others.

God bless,
Lisa

mguldner ,,,,,,,bro i think that proves one thing that is verry humbleing and convicting ,,the we dont love god the way he should be loved all the time ,,our love is not perfect like jesus love ,,he loved the lord his god with all his mind soul strength all the time every seconed of every day ,and his perfect obedance to his law proved that with out any doubt ,,we fall short of that type of perfection,,,,and the only reason why we god is because he first loved us ,and shead abroad that love into our hearts changing us in to new creations in jesus christ ,created for good works which god befor prepared that we should walk in them
taking out the old heart of stone and replaceing it with a heart of fleash and writing his laws of that new heart making it possable to love and obeay accoring to the spirit which he as givern us through the plan and practical nature of regenration ,which was by faith through grace that not being of our selvs ,but being the gift of god

as im sure you alreay no bro

i have a lot to thank him for
so much to praise him for
and yet i still dont love him any where near what he derserves ,

but the reality of that casue a contrite spirit and a morning ,and then god goes and blesses that that morn with evalasting confert ,and sets them freethrough his son indeed, a slow but sure perfecting of our soul ,and a comformety to the image of his son,which he predestined befor the foundation of the world , for with out which no one would see the lord ,,his election is efectual toward his sheep ,who are evedent in there efectal heraing of his voice ,and there following of him , for he knows them
and he gives to all of them eturnal life , and none of them shale perish by the way side , nor shal the perish on the rocky ground , nor shall and hated bird devour them ,neither shall any many pluck them out of his hand

god is greater

neither height ,nor debth
neither any created thing be able to seperate them from

THE LOVE OF GOD

but they kepeth them selfs and the evil one can not touch them

how power full is the love of god

im sure most of you know this power

ohh he is worth prasing all day long

ohh lord pour out on us more of the spirit of prayer and suplecation ,and let your spirit prayth for us with grones that cannot be uttered

and interseed for us where you sit at the right hand of the magesty on high ,as the high preist that you are accoring to the order of mekeseldek

bless you all brethern with mutiplyed grace and mercy

gazzer

brenda if you think you can love god in the same way christ loved god evy miniute of the day ,then your the greatses christ i know

even in scripture we see lak of love towards god at time ,by the apostals

showing they were not perfect and sinless , but stilll made quite big mistakes

Whenever I hear the word 'obedience' a red flag goes off in my mind.

Even the title: Can Love For God be Separated from Obedience? 'Begs the Question' obedient to what?

Let's rephrase the question to:

Can Love For God be Separated from Obedience TO GOD?

It still begs the question, specifically what does God want us to obey?

Now let us speculate what that 'WHAT' is.

a. Keep the Mosaic Laws. Yet no one but Jesus ever kept the entire Mosaic laws. Everyone else fails to keep, including Moses whom this Contract of keeping the Laws bears his name.
And this is as true today as it was in before Jesus Christ. God told Moses that the peoples entering the promised land would never be obedient to the Mosaic Laws that they just agreed to obey them all.

b. Keep the Laws of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ? How many Christians actually even know what they are?

C. Obedience means keeping the 7 sacraments by the Catholic Church to the extent permissible by their rules, which are held by a few other similar denominations?

Back to the question: Can Love For God be Separated from Obedience?

I sure hope so, because every sin we commit is an act of disobedience, and we all sin continually. As Pointed out by the Apostle John:

1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 IF WE SAY WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US. NASU

WOULD ALL HERE AGREE THAT each of our sins is is an act of disobedience?

And yet, we do love God. We are just not perfect. God knows this, and all He ask is that we confess our sins to Him, and He is faithful forgive all our sins and He will also cleanse us from unrighteousness. That is not our job, it is His. He gave us the indwelling Holy Spirit, God-in-me, to change our nature that we may do the good He created us to do.

The Royal Law of Love, to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and to love our neighbor as much as we love ourselves. The more we try, the better we get at Loving.

We should wisely consider the Law of Liberty: that as we measure unto others, so shall it be measured to us. As we judge others, so shall we be judged. MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGEMENT. Love and forgive. Love and forgive.

And do not quench the indwelling Holy Spirit by whom we are sealed as God's children, and whom works in us daily to change our very nature that we may do the good that God created us to do. And KNOW that God will succeed in completing the work He started in us when we accepted Jesus as our Savior.

So, what I view as God's - soon to be completed - work in us, which you may call obedience, but will be easy because of Love. Love is all important, we need to love, love, love, and God will perfect us in love

1 Co 16:14 Let all that you do be done in love.

Eph 3:14-19
I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in LOVE, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the LOVE of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

1 Th 3:11-13
Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you; and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in LOVE for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you; so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

1 Jn 4:15-21
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the LOVE which God has for us.

God is LOVE, and the one who abides in LOVE abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, LOVE is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

There is no fear in LOVE; but perfect LOVE casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

We LOVE, because He first loved us.

20 If someone says, "I LOVE God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not LOVE his brother whom he has seen, cannot LOVE God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who LOVES God should LOVE his brother also.

LOVE LOVE LOVE!

It is my opinion that true LOVE of God and of one another leads to true obedience to God without any effort whatsoever, but is pure joy. For God is Love.

when peter comitted the sin of hipocracy for how long we dont no for sure , it was a big mistake for him not to teach the truth and teach the gentiles to live as jews especicaly when he was living like a gentile regarding diet ect
he sined against god , and wile he was doing this his love was wavering , in fear ,,when one is in fear ,he canot be expressing the love of god at this precice time ,
he wansnt expressing love properly toward his neibour ,or to god at this time he was expressing fear ,and paull saw through it and rebuked him

i know he loved god ,but he still struggeld to express it in is actions ,,,,,and love is not just a feeling ,but actions ,when we perform actions contrary to actions of love , we are not loving god with all our heart mind soul and strength ,peters mind was captured by fear and hiporcacy

that was all i was saying

i wasnt saying we should all go around sinning god forbid

i believe in the fruit of the spirit , it must be evedent

even sleaping in in the morning for half an hour is sin for me ,, i should be up praying to god becasue he deservs it , im not saying im really willing to not pray ,, but the flesh still trys to stop me , a wrectcerd man that i am who will delievrd me from the body of death

im a cheif of sinners

i wont say im the presedent of sinneres , i dont think paull was teaching that
but it is a worthy saying as paull said worty of all excepettation ,, i except it

bless you sis

i like you name

my lovely wifes name is brenda as well

you seem verry strong and firery like her lol

but i dont expect anyone to except my theological point of view

Amen brother Art, I asked the question to stir up deeper thought than the black and white, and you gave a well balanced answer that I agree with and view as biblical and lining up with the Word of God.

We are dark but He finds us lovely, We are saved not because our Love is so amazing but we are saved because His love is amazing. True Love will lead to Obedience as others have said but in no way shape or form are we perfect Lovers of God, BUT if Christ be in us then we have True Love residing in Us, I don't believe we can Love God with our Love but we are empowered to Love God with God's Love that He gives us through the Holy Spirit.

My personal view of God is that of a Father who will discipline his child but He disciplines out of Love so we will quit hurting ourselves with sin, which is something I think many seem to forget, SIN Hurts. God wants us free not only to freely Love Him but also because He doesn't enjoy seeing His children hurting. We do disobey but as you said if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins.

Something that I find interesting Jesus says in John 4 paraphrased "It won't matter where we worship but God's worshipers will worship in Spirit and Truth." Can we operate in the Spirit of God? Yes, its a Spirit of Humility, Love, Holiness and What Truth? I believe their are two truths to consider, 1 the Truth about God Christ Jesus, and 2 the Truth about us, ie meaning honesty with ourselves that Yes we fail and fall and need a Saviour and Lord. BUT all in all Its Christ doing everything in us and so its nothing we can boast or brag about because without Christ we are the heathens so many religious christians like to turn up their noses to.

Amen mguldner, my brother in Jesus Christ!

So Jesus-is-God you then Love God, by being 100% obedient? If obedience and Love are synonomous, then hate and disobedience would be as well, would it not?

So in order to love God we must be 100% obedient all the time? I am not asking to be a wise guy, I truly am curious as to your thoughts on this.

Is it the striving that God looks at in the heart ie the attitude or the 100% follow through of obedience?

From all of this though you could look at someones life and say they love Jesus less than you granted your obedience is more, correct?

Where does obedience come into play on Salvation? Is 100% obedience required to be saved?

what does 100 percent obedent mean ,was peter 100 percent obedent when he acted the hipocret

who in this thread fears obedence , was that directed at us

who is slicing the the word of god up ,can you plese be direct so i know who you are talking to please

what the men james alowed in his fellowship ,who were false brethern , teaching men must be circumsised

this was sin

what about paull talking a vow geting his head shaved

he taught that if you did somthing like this you were obligated to continue under the whole mosaik law

the bible even teaches we all stumble in many things ,the toung being one of those things

no man can tame the toung

i dont see 100 percent sinlesness being taught here

neither in example by the apostals

art i do believe we are to keep the new testament laws that jesus taught paul taught that

he said to timothy i believe.even the words of the lord jesus christ

but that is not to say that is imposable to fall back in to sin ,, scripture shows that some do fall back into sin

but are brought back to repentence

just the exortation ,by paul

let eveyone who names the name of christ
depart from eniquity

this shows at least some of who he was refurng to where christians ,and were called to repentance

revalations ,some had left there first love and where called to repentance

were called to do there first works

the bible has many exortations to the christan who might have fallen in to temtation ,to repent

some where temted to go back to the law of moses

some were tempted to sit at the table with demons

people were exorted not to complain
there must have been some christans that where complaining for paull to exort for this

woulden it be grate
if we never had to exort our brethern and warn them

well we would not have to unless it were posable for them to STUMBLE IN MANY THINGS,as the apostal said

Would you except Paul's words in Philippians chpt 3 as an answer?

Yes Sister I would, thank you :)

"Back to the question: Can Love For God be Separated from Obedience?

I sure hope so, because every sin we commit is an act of disobedience, and we all sin continually. As
Pointed out by the Apostle John:

1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him
there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we
have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say
that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He
is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 IF WE
SAY WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US. NASU"

_________________________________________________________

For some of us, love is not a topic we understand well, much less the expression and feeling of it, or the receiving of it, or giving of it.

I know what the Word says of love...

Matthew 22:36-40

36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Even though I am bidden to love Adonai with all my heart, I do not know how to do this. Many of you are so passionate in your feelings, your obedience follows your passion, but I do not understand this.

I do not feel love, nor does my heart reach out to YHWH in the way you speak of, and yet I prefer Him above all things. My time is spent in seeking Him, and learning about Him, and speaking to and hearing from our Abba.

My soul does seek Him first in the mornings, and last at night, and throughout the day, for there is rarely a time when I do not discuss my every action with Him, thank Him for all that happens, and take pleasure in my closeness to Him.

My mind is full of Him, and I have no wish to be other than this. YHWH is my favorite topic, my subject of praise and thanks all the day, and yet I do not feel the passion for God that you all speak of, so I cannot think love, as you speak it, and obedience are always the same.

I do not love my neighbor, nor my brethren, nor myself, that I know of. Such things were not taught to me. I know little of filial love, nor unconditional love, except that I know I receive love from Adonai, because He has said so, and does not lie.

Mostly, my mind goes to How YWVH spoke of Esau and Jacob. He loved Jacob, and hated Esau, but I see no sign of Abba's hate toward Esau. I see only a preference for
Jacob.

I sometimes prefer my wishes for myself above Yeshua's wishes for me, so this is not love, but disobedience.

I also often prefer myself, and my wishes, and my good above that of my neighbor, or my brethren, yet it is merely a preference, when I choose between my good, and theirs. I do not choose their ill to gain my good.

I am allowed to choose, who I am to prefer, and when, at least with my neighbor and my brother. I do not seek my benefit at their expense and cost, but merely prefer my wishes first before I consider theirs. This makes me selfish indeed, but I do not sin in this, or at least, not all the time.

I do not love myself particularly well, either, never having been taught to, and am having a difficult time finding ways to be good to myself that is not in opposition to Adonai, but in obedience to him.

And yet, I know what love should be, as it is expressed in scripture, and I practice these things to the best of my ability.

1 Corinthians 13:1-7

1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.
3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
4. Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5. Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6. Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7. Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

These actions of love are what I am trying to do, what I pray we all do, thought by thought through the day, yet I know I fail at it. But this is what I do know how to do, though I do not necessarily feel it. I do, however do it a good deal of the time, and if I seem to boast, I boast only in the Ruach haKodesh working in me.

Romans 12:9-21

9. Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
10. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
11. Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
12. Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
13. Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
14. Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
15. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
16. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

These things I can do, and accomplish to the best of my ability, Yeshua and the Ruach haKodesh helping me, but I have much to learn to do.

1 John 2:1-6

1. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Do I keep the commandments of Adonai as placed upon my heart by the Ruach haKodesh? I hope so, even as I hope in Yeshua, and trust in Him, and lean upon Him, yet
I know I do obedience so poorly, and only in part, but I do seek to obey.

And I hope one day, with all my heart and soul, that I will show that I have learned to love in my obedience.

I would also like to feel it one day, but that is as Adonai chooses. Pray for me, that I might obey, and thus show my love, and one day know that love in myself even as I know it in Yeshua.

Q

amen questor

god will soon ,he must be teaching you somthing important

have you done much fasting with you prayers

Amen Krispy Amen

hi brenda ,,,well thats you opinoin sis when it comes to paul and james weather what they did was sin as well

i remember paull also have an argument with m was it barnabus and then they never spoke again

that was also sin

but that is my opinion i sopose

paull saif i am the cheif of sinners ,he said this is a worthy saying ,and should excepted by his readers

im not saying he is yeach that we should continue to practic that grae may aboud some how

we must repent from all sin fornacation steelling lieing
idolarty ,

i doubt in most cases if you are living a life of say fornacation ,that you are a christan

i believe that we must produce the fruit of the spirit

well the spirit must produce it

but the bible teaches also we stumble in many things

and then gives an example of our toung

the bible exorts us
to confess our falts to one another
and pray for one another that we maby healed
and then says it the efual feverent prayer of the righeous man avalis much under these circumstances

jesus him self exorts us in his prayer to ask the father to for give us of our sins ,as we are continualy forgiving others

i sinned this morning ,i slept in to five o clock

i should hane been up at four o clock

that is my prayer time

in now insted of prayeing ,im typing

god is more important yet i would rather type

im glad he has grace to forgive me

i sinned last night i think i ate more then i should have

iwith out doubt could have givern more to missions this week ,,,,,even 20 dolars , i know ican afford it

its true i didnt pray last night

my broken finger was to sore ,,,but when i think now ,you know i should have prayed any way

i wintessee to an ex jehova witness yestaday ,,i could have asked him over for a coffie ,and more witnessing ,but i didnt ,,i must have been thinking more of my self and my broken finger

i have a day of from work to day

i should give the lord 3 hours of prayer out of my nine hours that i wont be at work ,what would be better then that ,,,,,,,,,,sister it is more then likly iwill only pray for an hour and a half half as much ,and the same as a would even if i spent 9 hours at work

sorry sister ,,, im with paull

iam the chief of sinner

how do you see that verse and what do you think jesus is teaching

iknoww great men of god like john piper ,paul washer ,george whitfield took on the mantle and even tho they are verry holy man in there words and deeds ,saw them self as cheif of sinneres

does god not show you your weekness ,and how you stumble in many things ,,, he does to me

i will humbley admit it i need more of his grace daily

krisspy ,,you are a reformed brother ,
what doest it mean to keep his commanments,,

lol maby you should have read a little more lol

or is it that you have not sinned scince conversion

by KrispyKrittr on 2011/8/17 5:14:32

"I'm late to this conversation and have not read thru all of this...

Let me answer the title question: NO.

"If you love Me you will keep My commands."

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Krispy"

Okay, Jesus did say that. But His commandments are those of the the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, that we have in Jesus, and not those of the Mosaic Covenant.

Heb 7:11-21

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 1for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. And inasmuch as it was not without an oath, for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

Heb 7:21-22

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'";

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. NASU

So from the above, it is clear that the Mosaic Laws have been replaced the Laws of Jesus Christ under a new Covenant. Just as it was clearly prophesied in Zechariah Chapter 11.

Vs 1-3 prophesy the destruction of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem.

Zec 11:7-14 Prophesy the God annihilating the Mosaic Covenant.

7 So I pastured the flock doomed to slaughter, hence the afflicted of the flock. And I took for myself two staffs: the one I called Favor and the other I called Union; so I pastured the flock. Then I annihilated the three shepherds in one month, for my soul was impatient with them, and their soul also was weary of me. Then I said, "I will not pasture you. What is to die, let it die, and what is to be annihilated, let it be annihilated; and let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. So it was broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of YHWH. I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

14 Then I cut in pieces my second staff Union, to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. NASU

There is only one bilateral Contract that God made with the peoples. The Mosaic Covenant with it's 613 laws, and the punishments for by breaking any of those commandments that applied. Some only for the Levitical priests, some for women, some for men, some for both sexes. They were annihilated when Jesus, having kept the Mosaic Laws till his death, died on the cross in our place, suffering the penalty that we deserved for our sins. Upon the moment of His death. The Heavy Curtain that separated humankind from God was torn asunder.

So I have no idea what Jesus-is-God is obedient to? Does he no longer sin? What Laws of Moses does he feel compelled to keep, in order to receive eternal life and the life abundantly good. (Addressed only to 'Jesus is God', no one should answer for him, and answering is his choice.)

The Greek word 'hupakoe' in the KJV literally means "To Listen to attentively." KJV used the word 'obedience'. Jesus Listen attentively to His Father, and He Kept the Mosaic Laws perfectly until His death, and upon his death He became the perfect Lamb of God whose blood is a covering for all my sins - past, present, and future. I have listened attentively to Jesus words and the prophesy of Zechariah, and accepted the New Covenant with New Laws by accepting gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus is not a cheerleader cheering for us to keep the whole Mosaic Law, He welcomed us into a New Covenant by which WE ARE SAVED through Him and His atoning Blood shed on the cross. If someone wants to call this obedience, then I am indeed fully obedient through Jesus finished work on the cross on my behalf. I am saved. I have no fear of ever losing my salvation. God dwells in me. I love Him and He loves me.

Ro 5:18-21

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. NASU

JOY JOY, I am saved by Jesus.

And my obedience is that I have listened attentively to Jesus words, and those of His disciples, and I do believe Him and them, and in context. I am saved by His finished work on the cross. I know He loves me and I know I love Him with all my mind, heart, strength, and soul (The Father and Holy Spirit too). And I am trying to love all those whom I get to know.

NO!

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/8/17 20:07:22

"ArtB, show me where anyone on this thread said that we must follow the O.T. Laws besides those that Jesus preached in the N.T..

Are you really claiming that Jesus abolished portions of the Mosaic Covenant and endorsed only a portion of the Mosaic Covenant prior to His crucifixion?

Please enlighten me on what portions He erased during His ministry prior to His Crucifixion, and which portions he kept in the New Covenant after His resurrection?.

And I am not setting you up. I'll make it clear:

Mt 5:17-19 Jesus speaking:

17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." NASU

And of course, Jesus is talking about the Laws of the Mosaic Covenant. And He is not talking just about the 10 commandments, He is talking about all 613 Laws along with all the blessings of keeping these laws as written down in the Mosaic Covenant, and as well as all the punishments for failure to keep the Laws Mosaic Covenant, as written down by Moses, who received it from God. When Moses even gave the people the Mosaic Laws, before they had a chance to break the Law of the Covenant, God told Moses that this is a stiff-necked people who will not keep this covenant they agreed to keep.

Jesus-is-God asked me:

"ArtB, show me where anyone on this thread said that we must follow the O.T. Laws besides those that Jesus preached in the N.T."

Jesus did not preach the New Covenant at all prior to His crucifixion. At most, He only hinted of a New Covenant to His disciples, but even then they did not know it until after Jesus resurrection. Had Jesus preached the New Covenant prior to His crucifixion, Jesus would have violated the Mosaic Covenant. At best, Jesus occasionally hinted a New Covenant was coming.

Jesus only preached to His fellow descendants of Israel (Jacob) during His entire ministry. He never once preached the gospel to gentiles. Had He done so, He would been in violation of the Mosaic Covenant, and that is sin, and this would have disqualified Him fulfilling the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant. And this sin would have disqualified Jesus from being the unblemished Lamb of God, and His death on the cross would not have washed away all our sins by His blood to all who accept His blood as atonement for their sins (thus no Christians).

Jesus never preached directly to gentiles during His ministry. He referred to them as dogs who were unworthy of the bread that God has for His Children, the descendants of Israel.

Jesus never preached the New Covenant prior to His crucifixion. Upon His death on the cross, God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant. Upon His resurrection, The New Covenant was established. Jesus began to talk to His disciples plainly about the New Covenant, explaining to them from Scriptures the fulfillment of God's plan from the Mosaic Covenant to the New Covenant of His blood, that all who accept His shed blood on the cross as atonement of all their sins for all time, are saved. Not by works of the Mosaic Law, but by faith in accepting the atoning Blood of Jesus and believing Him with regards to their salvation, and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit who works all these to the good who have put their trust in Jesus atoning blood shed on the cross.

Thus we now have fellowship with God daily, and we can walk with Him, and talk with Him, and He works in us to transform our very nature so that we do the good He created us to do.

The Mosaic Covenant is dead to those who are in Jesus Christ, and alive to all who reject the atoning blood of Jesus, by doing so moving themselves back under the Mosaic Law, if that be possible.

Jesus-is-God, do not ignore the Book of Hebrews:

Heb 7:11-22

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant." NASU

Heb 8:7-9:1

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; 9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 11 "AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,'FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 12 "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE."

13 When He said, " A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. NASU

See: For there to be a New Covenant, God had to make the first Covenant (i.e. the Mosaic Covenant)obsolete.

Jesus-is-God writes: "You are not only twisting His Words - you are misrepresenting ours."

"No big repercussions for what you do to our words, but Major responibility for what you do to HIS."

I will let God be the judge of that. I believe I portray His words and His plan for our salvation correctly. All was accomplished when Jesus died on the cross. Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ.

Ro 8:1-8

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
NASU

Words mean something. I believe the Scriptures I have quoted. Our salvation is truly a gift from God to us who believe Him and accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and through His atoning Blood shed on the cross. My confidence for my salvation is in God working in me, The indwelling Holy Spirit and I have faith that He will complete the good work He has begun in me.

BTW, Jesus-is-God, I regret that I have offended you. Perhaps if I were wiser, I may have been capable to express things in a better way that would not be offensive. But I am a flawed person and regret that I do not do better.

Hello ArtB,

Peace in Christ

I just wanted to encourage you in the simplicity and pure
devotion of Jesus. After reading some of your posts I saw that you spoke of Love. By loving Jesus fervently we are filled with such joy that it flows like rivers. These rivers of love flow to where the Holy Spirit wants to go, where Jesus wants to bring life, to all the fading lives that need this water. This is a very deep well, this fountain of life that is Christ. Continue to Draw deeply from him Brother and your love of others will increase as Christ increases in you.

Love in Christ Jesus,

Travis

Travis,

I truly appreciate your kind and and encouraging words.

ArtB

hi there art

bro are you saying that everthing jesus preached was old covernt and not realy for us

becasue i recal paull exorting in one of his letters

if some didnt consent to sound doctrine even the words of our lord jesus christ

that they were proud

if jesus was and old couvernt teacher he would have concented to the death of the womman caught in adultry

he seemed to abolish the puishment of his old covent law regarding adulrty

how do you explain that bro

and one other thing

when you were quoting jesus saying anyone breaking one of these comands was concidered the least in the kingdom ,but who ever does them and teaches them shall be called great

can i submit with all humility

he was talking about the the following commands begining in the next verse continuing on for around two chapters , in his great sermon on the mount

that i believe is the contex

tho others present may not have undestood it like that

he even changed comands like eye for an eye
to love your enemy

that shows in his sermon on the mount he abolished that comand and brought in the new covernt comand

i noticed that you said early that he never did that

he also abolished the law of making oaths

and forbid those lisening to obey that old law

so i humbly call your corection in what you said brother

yea i agree brenda that we are not to continue in sin
for gods seed is in him and we cannot sinn in that manner

i wasnt trying to indorse that

but imperfectings
lak of striving

weakness in prayer

and just a general not being as goos a christian as we probable could be

there is allways room for improvment

paull said he didint think he had atained
but this one thing he did he pressed toward the mark
for the high callin of god in jesus christ

it is a pressing on to perfection

sis it is also interestiong to note

the john weasly said we should vere go far from the doctrine that his brother whitfield taught

and whitfield was an exponent of still falling short of the mark

yet at whitfield funeral he said that he believed that scince the apostal paul there has been no preacher like george whitfield

toward the end of hi life ,he learnt to except georgees doctrines as being close to his

and that true gosple was around both of what they taught

bar slight differnce in there doctrine

have you ever read weaslys sermon at whitfield funaral

butafull . to see the love those two man had and the respect verry warming

yes the rightgeous man who has slid like peter did, was the same righeous man after he repented ,

in those cases he shows his righeousness through repentance

it wasnt that peter was a righteous men
sinned ,became unrigheous
and then became a righeousman again

roms says that god righeousness was imputed to peter through faith
he never lost his faith ,,he just fell in fear and acted upon it

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/8/18 4:59:39

[quote Art]Are you really claiming that Jesus abolished portions of the Mosaic Covenant and endorsed only a portion of the Mosaic Covenant prior to His crucifixion?

Please enlighten me on what portions He erased during His ministry prior to His Crucifixion, and which portions he kept in the New Covenant after His resurrection?.

[quote Jesus-is-God]Again, putting words in other's mouths/posts is wrong, Art.

First of all, you should speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves. Facts are never established by majority vote. They are established or falsified by hard facts.

As for putting words in your mouth, It would be wrong if that is what I did.

My comment was based on the actual words that you wrote to me with respect to the OT [Mosaic] Laws. Let's look at your words that my comment was based on.

[by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/8/17 20:07:22]

[quote Jesus-is-God]ArtB, show me where anyone on this thread said that we must follow the O.T. Laws besides those that Jesus preached in the N.T..

This is exactly what you wrote, that the only Mosaic Laws we must keep are the ones that Jesus preached in the NT.

And here is what I wrote:

Are you really claiming that Jesus abolished portions of the Mosaic Covenant and endorsed only a portion of the Mosaic Covenant to be kept prior to His crucifixion?

Please enlighten me on what portions of the Mosaic Laws He erased during His ministry prior to His Crucifixion, and which portions he kept in the New Covenant after His resurrection?.

How is my statement on what you said any different than what I stated you said? It matches what you said. You even answered my question as to which laws of the Mosaic Covenant Jesus still wants us to keep: In your words: "those that Jesus preached in the N.T.".

Jesus-is-God writes:

"You are not only twisting His Words - you are misrepresenting ours.

No big repercussions for what you do to our words, but Major responibility for what you do to HIS."

You have failed to establish that I twisted your words or HIS words. And I certainly had no intent to do so. And now I explained why I believe that I have not twisted your words at all.

I'm asking you to retract these charges you accused me of.

Whether you do or not, I forgive you.

Jesus, IMO, was the actual Chief Rabbi of Israel. He was born while the entire Mosaic Covenant was still in effect. Jesus, like all Jews, was required to keep all of the Laws of the Mosaic Covenant all the days of their life. And Jesus did so.

As Chief Rabbi, not appointed so by men, but by God, Jesus had to teach His fellow Jews to Keep the whole Mosaic Law, Just as He actually kept it Himself. Teaching another covenant, a New Covenant, would have been a direct violation of the Mosaic Covenant. The New Covenant of Jesus Christ could not come into existence until the Mosaic Covenant was annihilated by God, as prophesied in Zechariah 11: 7-14.

Jesus Sermon on the Mount was a brilliant approach to keeping the entire Mosaic Law. The Beatitudes are a brilliant expose of the right characteristics required to acquire the right attitude to have for keeping the Mosaic Laws, and even more so for accepting the GIFT of eternal life, the abundantly good life, that will be offered to all through the Gospel of Jesus after His death as the perfect Paschal Lamb whose blood atones for, washes away all the sins of all who believe in Him, and His resurrection from the dead.

Jesus was required, as all Jews, to keep the entire Mosaic Covenant. That means He could not teach the New Covenant until the the Mosaic Covenant was kept by Jesus up to His death by crucifixion, at which moment God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant. And as it was when Joseph was placed in Charge of Egypt by the Pharaoh, the gentiles were saved first, and the last to be saved were the Jews. See Romans Chapter 11.

So Brothergary, Jesus preached only to the Jews until His death, teaching and encouraging them to Keep the Mosaic Covenant. Teaching any other Covenant would have violated the the Mosaic Covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the Mosaic Law on our behalf, and at His death and resurrection, the New Covenant was establish and the Mosaic Covenant was annihilated. Gentiles first were saved first, and the Jews will be saved last when He takes the blind off their eyes.

This is what the Scriptures declare and is sound doctrine.

As for the Woman who committed adultery, Let's look at that.

Jn 8:2-11
3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, " He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, " I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."] NASU

I'm sure Jesus knew she committed adultery. But note that they could have stone her without taking her to Jesus. All that was required by the Law were two witnesses. But they wanted to drag Jesus into stoning Her to discredit Jesus.

But notice that Jesus said 'Let He who is without sin throw the first stone.' Jesus continued writing in the sand, and as He wrote, the accusers were walking away, on by one. The Scripture does not say what Jesus wrote, but I believe He was writing down hints of each of their sins they committed that would bring shame and require a punishment under the Mosaic laws. And as each recognized Jesus knew their secret sin, they walked away.

And since the Mosaic Law requires two witnesses, by the Mosaic law, Jesus could not stone Her to death, which He did not want to do anyway.

Brothergary writes: "he even changed comands like eye for an eye to love your enemy that shows in his sermon on the mount he abolished that comand and brought in the new covernt comand."

Jesus did not change the commands like 'Eye for Eye' to love your enemy. Eye for Eye is still prominent in our Judicial System. Eye for Eye simply means Equal compensation for equal loss. What Jesus is saying is that we should stop hating and bickering with our enemies, and to love then instead, and work to end the enmity and build up friendship. The Law is the Law, but we have the right to waive our rights for a better goal, such as making friends and helping others. To Love is the best choice we can make.

'Life for Life', 'Tooth for Tooth', 'Eye for Eye' was figurative speech back then as it is now when used as a legal term. It simply means that compensation for injury or loss has to be equivalent to the actual loss. Our Courts work this way today.

Please note that the Mosaic Laws did not allow a person who lost their eye to rip out the eye of the person who damaged his eye. All legal issues were brought to an official Judge
who officiated over the damage inflicted and what just equal compensation is required due to the person harmed.

Back then, only in a murder conviction legally required the convicted murderer loses his life. Nobody legally lost his hand or eye as punishment meted out by those ancient Jewish judges.

You write "he also abolished the law of making oaths.'

Jesus did not abolish making oaths, He simply said it is best for us not to make oaths. Oaths usually meant swearing to God that you will do so and so. And when you do not carry through, you profane God's name and thereby dishonor Him. The option is to make a contract with the person if it is something major, with reasonable options in case of failure.

You also write: "he even changed comands like eye for an eye
to love your enemy."

I explained what 'eye for eye' actually meant above. It was never literal.

And yes, you are right Brothergary in trusting in the Laws of Christ of the New Covenant. And I love your New Covenant attitude.

The laws of the New Covenant are:

'The Law of Liberty' As we judge others, so shall we be judged, as we measure others, so shall we be measured. Mercy triumphs over Judgement.

The Royal Law of Love.'Love God with all your Heart, might, Strength and Soul, and your neighbor as your self.

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus:

Ro 8:1-11
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 1If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
NASU

ArtB

i dont know how you can say that artb

jesus said you have herd that is was said you shal love your neibour and hate your enemy

this was the law of moses ,then he changed it and said not i say love your enemy

he didy say whay you said ,quote ,it would be best not to swear oaths

he said dont do it dont sware by anything

yournot quoting scripture art

your changing what he said to suit ,your doctrine

dont expect me to take that serious

jesus taught new covernet teaching wile the old was still in place
that doesnt mean he sinned he supaseeded ,and supassed the old law with even more higher moral laws

oh i love you zeal art and i agree with your last statment about the laws of the spirit and the greatests comands

Corrections made. ArtB

by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/8/18 11:41:25

"...Whosoever Believeth in Me...shall have Everlasting Life..." "this is my Body - this is my blood" - etc..

Lk 22:19-23
"This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. " But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table. 22 "For indeed, the Son of Man is going as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!" NASU

LOL, Nice try, and I do love you as my brother in Christ, I do not want these discussions to separate us in anyway. I know you are my brother in Christ and that you and most here love Jesus, and we can all be certainly glad that we are not saved by the accuracy of our knowledge.

But when Jesus said this, His apostles had no clue what He was talking about. They focused in on who was going to betray Jesus.

The Gospel of John gives a long lengthy passage on what Jesus told His disciples, they had no clue He was about to become THE PASCHAL LAMB OF GOD WHOSE BLOOD WILL WASH AWAY THE SINS OF ALL WHO ACCEPTS HIM AS THEIR SAVIOR.

The only person who knew before this who Jesus is, was John the Baptist, from Jn 1:29-31
"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He on behalf of whom I said, ' After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me." NASU

Jesus revealed the New Covenant and what really happened in full after His resurrection. Here is one example, but there are more detailing how he opened their minds to the true Gospel
Lk 24:44-49

44 Now He said to them, " These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, " Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 "You are witnesses of these things. 49 "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high." NASU

Later they would have the indwelling Holy Spirit that would reveal to the Apostles and other Christians the fullness of the New Covenant. Here is another example of Jesus, after His resurrection explaining to His followers what is happened:

Lk 24:13-27

And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him.

And He said to them, "What are these words that you are exchanging with one another as you are walking?" And they stood still, looking sad. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, "Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?"

19 And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened. But also some women among us amazed us. When they were at the tomb early in the morning, and did not find His body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that He was alive. Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but Him they did not see."

25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. NASU

Jesus was now explaining plainly to His followers what He could only hint about prior to His death.

I think this is my last post for today if not for awhile. My mind is weak and it is not easy for me to continue. I will read all replies. God bless everyone here.

"by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/8/18 15:55:36

P.S.

If you had read all of our other posts, you would have seen on page 3 my one liner post and in mguldner's reply, that I'm a female. Not that it matters here, but just in case it makes you feel any easier."

So you are not my brother in Christ, veeery interesting. :)

That's Okay. It has been my view that we are truly spirits. Only our bodies are male and female machines. Our bodies age, we do not.

Most pleased to make your acquaintance on this forum.

by jimp on 2011/8/14 22:04:16, wrote:

"faith and love cannot be separated from obedience.faith which worketh by love...faith is hearing a word from God,noah ,iwant you to build an ark... believing the word and obeying the word.noah built an ark to the saving of his family.he heard a lot of grief from his nieghbors but he loved his family and loved God."

If that is true, why has no one been obedient enough to Keep the Mosaic Laws?

Why do we all sin, continually?

Does this mean that no one has faith? no one loves?

Brother Art I am not sure where these questions are coming from. No one is fully obedient, that has been covered, but those who are in Christ are IN Christ and His Righteousness covers and replaces ours. This is why no one keeps the Mosaic Laws Christ already fulfilled it.

When Christ died He died Infinitely, Once and For all. Trying to complete the Mosaic Law is like adding 1 to infinity it just doesn't make any sense.

We are also dependant on Christ and His Love, no one can Love God without Christ and so we are dependant on Christ Love FULLY to Love God fully.

I am sure you have read Romans 3 before No one seeks after God, there is none Righteous No NOT ONE. This is why we have Christ Only He is Righteous and Faithful, and Loving and Commited to God and THROUGH Him the impossible can be done ie We as we die with Christ are risen with Christ and have access to the Father WHO is a miracle working God giving US grace to seek Him and Mercy to faulter, the important thing isn't are we perfect but is Christ in Us perfecting us.

Ultimately my point is this We are all helplessly lost and in need of a Saviour and Lord, we must die with Chirst daily being obedient to the death of the Cross Cruxifing the Flesh, to be risen with Christ. May I ask what righteousness a dead man has? What ambition does a dead man have? What will does a dead man have? No we are new in Christ because HE is the new source of Life in us and the old man is passed away.

Does the old man rear its ugly head? YES he does but we now have the option to submit to HIM or Submit to Our Lord Jesus Christ. Is it our work? Never! but Christ who is working in us. AMAZING GRACE!! :) I put my hope in nothing LESS than JESUS' BLOOD and HIS Righteousness.

The real question is not do you sin my brother but have you made war on your sin, if SO believe Christ has won the victory and enter into that victory with Christ.

ididnt say he changed his doctrine to whitfields ,,but said to his hearers that they stay close to his doctrine

and esteemed him as one of the greatest preachers

whitfield was not weasly enemey

i dont want to post the sermon in here it might seem rude

but i can say one thing ,if he thought he was his enemy he woudnt have compared him to paul,and said that surly there was no one greater then him scince paul

i spose we can all have our opinions on who preaching milk and whos preaching meat

if he was an enemy of the cross of christ then i dont think any christian would compare withfield with an apostal ,, and if he is not an enemy of the cross ,then he is no enemey at all

but a fellow worker

he who is not against me is for me

weasly was aquainted with the words of christ i believe

whifield wasnt againsts the full preaching of the cross

maby you should cheak out 30 or 40 sermons of his berfor you make your mind

he planted and weasly watered

he was an evangelest that was his gifting

what i cant understand jesus is god
is that your againsts us quoting other saints

but you say its ok to quote your owns thoughts as some how they are better then quoting others thoughts and words

how is that what you say is more imortant then them are you saying you are mush wiser then weasly and others ike that

and can you give scripture to suport that we should not learn from others

i dont see any scripture to suport that line of thinking

about the new topics i haven look at them yet except for the communion topic

wher does it say in the new covernent to studdy the letters of the newstament and the old scripture ,and disregard teachers and pasters

that is what you are saying ,where is this writtern