god

codek: Brother, it may be that you took it upon yourself to do in the flesh what God has commanded us to do in our spirit. Let me explain.

When Jesus said to forsake all you have He did not mean that each one of these man was to give away all of his material possessions. Peter for example still had a wife and a home. We find that the remaining disciples traveled with Jesus, we find that the Son of Man had no where to lay His head, but we do not find that the disciples had no where to lay their heads. What they had done was to say goodbye to anything that they were holding on to.

If I have forsaken all then the things I own have not eternal or lasting significance to me. I will be willing and obedient to do with them whatever God tells me to do. It is a relinquishing of my right to control any aspect of my life to God so that He might be the one who rules and reigns. You see, if He has my heart he has my possessions as well.

There is another side to this thing as well. When I was trying to please God in my flesh I put a lot of stock in the value of my own works. "If I do this then God is obligated to do that." or "If I am really good then I can please God and He will see that I am so righteous." Of course these attitudes are filthy in the sight of God. I give up my right to think that I can do it on my own and submit to the righteousness of faith without works.

But in all of this I was not called Biblically to sell all my possessions and give it all away to the poor. I was called to relinquish my right to control my own life and my own possessions. If God leads me to give it all away then I will be obedient because I have forsaken all. But God does not lead everyone to do this. Actually He leads very few to do this.

As to having expectations that other brothers are going to do this in the way that you see that it should be done, would dying to self not also include giving up your right to think that the other brother should have done it one way or another? You will answer to God for what you have done and he for what he has done. But we cannot expect out of our brothers, we can only love them and do to them as Christ would do.

Just some practical advice brother. Be wise about your finances. Do not allow others to take advantage of you financially. Use what you have to meet your needs and give as you are able and as you determine in your heart according to 2 Cor. 9:7. If you cannot give because you must meet your obligations, do not be discouraged or condemned. There is not enough room in the post to go into it, but the tithes is not the new covenant way of giving. God does not demand a tenth. He demands that we be submitted to Him and motivated by His love and heart in giving. Continue to beat the streets for a job. Take whatever you can and continue to seek for something better. Continue to believe God for His help in finding a job but not because you have done something to earn it. You and I have not and cannot earn a thing. He will do it for you simply out of love. Develop intimacy with Him. Spend a lot of time in prayers of praise and thanksgiving and speak with Him often. It sounds like you have placed yourself in a position of now needing the help of others. If you know of any places where you live that give monetary or practical assistance through food, clothing, or other things you desperately need, take advantage of the service. You can always do the same for others when you are financially able down the road. Don't allow yourself to get your eyes on man and be offended at him. Remember in surrendering to Christ you gave up the right to be offended or to retain hurts. You will need to lay these before the Lord and allow Him to remove them. It might mean taking the time to "pray through" as the old timers said it. It simply means I will get before God and pray until I know the thing is done and I am free of hurt and offense and full of the love of God.

I am praying for you now. Blessings codek.

Codek,
My heart goes out to you. So, you decided to give everything to the Lord. I think that's great! But now that you are losing everything, you are getting upset about it... It makes me wonder, did you actually give everything to the Lord? Perhaps God is testing you. Are you really willing to give up everything, even if it means LOSING everything? Think of Job...

Here is a promise that you can hold on to: God knows that you need to eat, drink, and be clothed, and if you really seek His kingdom and His righteousness, He will make sure that you are looked after.

"Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."
(Matthew 6:31-34)

Notice that God doesn't say you will keep your car, your house, your loved ones, your retirement fund, your savings... No. He says that He will look after your basic needs. But, you may just lose EVERYTHING. However, if you truly have Christ, what is that to you?

Meditate on this passage:
"But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-- that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead."
(Philippians 3:7-11)

Also meditate on Psalm 73.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

"I heard someone say actually Paul Washer once say something that I think was very helpful, In my own words he said everybody is worried about doing something instead of worried about becoming like someone (Christ)."

that is the point, well said,the church would not be in the condition it is in if it understood this.
what we have now is what I believe is well stated in scripture for today's church

Isaiah 36:17. Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord.
18. We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.

It cost me nothing, He paid the price in full.

As Paul says, everything Paul was or is, is nothing but dung, Paul counted everything nothing for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ:

As we should be also. Nothing I have is of value to God except the Christ that is in me, now I am considered a son of God by His working in me.

In Christ: Phillip

Dear Codek,
Thank you for your honesty in expressing these hard things. You are grappling with some very hard things, and living in the reality of the harshness of the world.
I know, and so understand your frustration. I am guessing you are relatively young, and I am relatively old, but not so wise myself.
Recently, my dear husband was laid off, after many years, and quite a bit of financial loss (the company he worked for went bankrupt, and the retirement benefits were affected severely. Now, we are starting again, much as we did as a young couple 40 years ago). He too was very generous with what he did have, never refusing the needs of others, and now we are facing a little of what you are too. Interestingly, friends do seem to run for the hills in such times, and sometimes that can provoke some hurt and a sense of rejection. I understand that that is probably the toughest thing for you right now.
It is interesting, we say, the Lord gives, and the Lord takes away, but when He does, we are surprised. This is where I hope I can be of some comfort too you.
Our gracious Father does have a plan for you. His greatest affection can be wrapped in our greatest losses. He longs for intimacy with you, as He had with Moses, who He called His friend. Do you know, you must be precious to Him, He is providing an opportunity for you to come to the end of your resources, and there, find Him? Job lost everything, and he gained more, He saw God, as He is.
Matthew 16:25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it...hang on, He has real life for you. There was much wisdom in the previous posts, heed those words. But also know, that He is working in you to form real freedom from this world, and there you will find peace.

Mat 19:21, 27-30:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me...Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."

Hey codek,

Wow,what a testimony! Now you need to be patient,because actually there is success in many counselors.

What you are missing is the counsel of the elders.Older brothers that have "been there,done that"

God was glad for your heart,not your possessions.
He did say "if your eye offends,pluck it out" but that is also a heart issue.

It could be your answer is found in the story of Abraham and Issac.Remember that Abraham was only required to be WILLLING,to give up his son,then the "required" sacrifice was provided by God.

Well,you showed your willingness.So now what to do?

You must contact several pastors in your area and get counsel.God will confirm one or more of their advice.

In the meantime,your action did not accompany faith alongside. In the future,when you "bake a cake" read the directions.

Read hebrws 11.It is the faith chapter.From now on,recognize you almost zero faith,and get your faith activated before you venture out again.

When you are destitute and have nothing,that is when God works.But you won't let him,because you are "noisy" in your spirit.

The man of faith can sell all,give it to the poor and be happy.But he better be sure the TIMING is Gods and not his.

Another thing to consider,is a MARRIED MAN has a different walk than a single man.You must PROVIDE for them.So selling all for a married man is different than just putting yourself in the "press".

BTW,welcome to the "press".You entered prematurely into what advanced christians go through.

Should you actually activate faith,you will position yourself for the greatest adventure in God you will possibly ever have.

Do you want the 4th man to come into the furnace with you?

Then read carefully what they SAID,and do like all those in Heb 11

Nobody,but a man of faith can guide you at this point.
........and of course your ability to hear heaven for yourself.

Stop acting like you are alone.So what if every single "believer" abandons you.(They haven't) God is for you,and he is with you.Thats good enough.

God bless,
David

Codek: The scriptures to which you refer are not instruction to every believer to sell all he has and give to the poor. Jesus was making a very strong point to the young man. The man was convinced of his own righteousness by his seeming ability to keep the law so perfectly. The young man said, "I have kept the law perfectly from my youth." Jesus had to show this young man that he was deceiving himself. So Jesus said, "Ok then, if you will be perfect then sell all you have and give it to the poor and come follow me." The young man realized in that moment that he had broken the first commandment. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me." The young man had great wealth and this wealth was an idol to him. He was totally unwilling to give up the thing he served, money. What had a moment before been spiritual pride suddenly was seen for what it was and the young man went away sad. The point is not that all believers need to sell out and live on the street. The point is that we should not allow money to be an idol in our lives.

Well spoken, codek! I have experienced the same from the churches i have been in--and worse. The way it is here, if a Christian gives you help they judge you for needing it.

If you were anywhere near me i would do all i could to help you find a job. I'm assuming you don't want to relocate out of your state. I will pray for you also. This is a very hard trial you are going through.

As for bankruptcy, don't feel too bad; there is life after bankruptcy, it is not the end of the world. Millions go thru it every day and some come out better than they ever were before.

Also, twayneb (and others) have given some excellant and sound wisdom and advice on this thread. So glad to have been blessed myself in reading it!

by codek on 2011/9/14 21:59:35 writes:

"Giggles, those verses to me tell me that I should say all that I have literally and give to the poor, no?

How else can you interpret that verse?"

The answer is NO!

I know these verses well, and if taken in context with Jesus full discourse with the young rich Jewish man and Jesus apostles, leads to a very profound statement. It is painful when people quote scripture devoid of context. This happens too often on this forum.

I will post the verse in context in a separate thread. I did post it back in 2004. "Jesus and The Young Rich Man."

codek: God does desire that you burn for Him. But that burning takes place inside our hearts. If He has my heart, if I am burning up for Him, then the physical stuff will be His as well as He leads me. If my heart is His I will be willing to do with my money as He directs me to do. It is the heart He wants.

As for other people, they are often misguided and sometimes deceitful. I am afraid that as a human I have been both. My realization of this allows me to have more grace for my brother. But in the midst of that hurt and pain come to me. I must get before God and give Him all of the hurt and pain. Remember what it means to burn up for Him. It means that I give Him ALL of my heart including my right to bear hurt, pain, offence, etc. I can tell you this is often the most difficult place to give it all up. To many of us releasing this stuff is harder than it was for the rich young ruler to face his love of his money.

I want to encourage you not to withdraw from God and also don't withdraw from people in His body. You can get all kinds of advice and some support here on SI but it does not compare to having brothers to walk with where you live. Find a good fellowship of believers in the LA area and fellowship with them. Get to know some men who are mature in the Lord and solid in the word and seek them for counsel and advice. Don't be afraid to put some trust in these men although it makes you somewhat vulnerable. Do you know of such men in your area? If not I will pray you find them.

hey again Codek,
could you tell the story of what you were thinking when you were in the process of giving away your worldly possessions and what you expected to be the outcome?

thanks for sharing this Codek, I am sort of new here and did not know your whole story. I am thinking about it and praying, and understand quite a bit of what you are sharing. We are in a similar place, interestingly, one of my friends came by yesterday, she needed about 500 dollars, but mu hubby was laid off in June, and I had to say no. She went away a bit tiffed with me. We have helped her quite a bit in the past. It does hurt, I know. But, I am growing to understand that some relationships, ones based on you helping quite a bit, are not the relationships you will get encouragement from when you are in need. This does not happen because of God, or what the bible teaches. In fact, the new testament model for the church was really designed to develop a mutual one another approach. So, you may have been involved in a church that did not follow God's model, but had an imbalance in how they approached scripture.
We too are feeling a bit isolated in our church since Hubby's lay off. so, what do we do with that?
I do believe that God is working in us right now. He wants to use this time to form in us a firm foundation, a wiser understanding of His word. A love that is His love for other people, not based on their response to us, but based on His mercy towards us and them. I do believe that sometimes isolation it the place where He forms in us that settled longing for Him alone.
I know you are seeking God, and I would suggest you do a bible study on His nature, His attributes. It is when we embrace (in faith that He alone bestows) the God who revealed Himself in the word, that we find our hiding place in Him. I agree, if you have spent many years in a church that has misrepresented God, then the verses you have read about giving all you own, etc, will be seen through these lenses. It sounds like your church was teaching its own unique form of legalism.
I dont mean to equate my situation with you, and I claim no prophetic understanding, but I do know God has an answer for you. Wait on Him.