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Women Preachers are SINFUL!

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The Sin of Women Preachers!

By David J. Stewart

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." —1st Timothy 2:11-12

Feminism is of the Devil. One subject you'll never hear a woman preacher preach about is feminism. As with the Homosexual Movement, the Feminist Movement has changed the Word of God into a lie, "Who changed the truth of God into a lie..." (Romans 1:25). Feminists have even fabricated their own Feminist Theology. This is rebellion against God.

Here are some words of warning, likening harmful lodges to WOMEN PREACHERS, from the mighty evangelist and founder of the Sword of the Lord, Dr. John R. Rice...

“The lodges, I know, teach men to subdue their passions, to exercise brotherly love, to help each other in trouble. The lodges have helped some men to live better moral lives, and I have known rare cases in which the lodge ties were used to win souls. Many, many earnest, upright men strive to help themselves and to help others to a higher, nobler life by the lodges. Yet many Scriptures expressly forbid Christians to yoke up with unbelievers in the lodges. And the lodges, I have no doubt, as a general thing, deny the deity of Christ, deny the need for a new birth, and deceive millions of people who think they are saved without being born again. The lodges do good, but they do infinitely more harm.

So it is with women preachers. They do good, but how much harm they do! First, the rise of women preachers has meant the rise of multiplies sects of people with false doctrines of every kind. The Fox sisters and Spiritism, Mrs. White and Seventh Day Adventism, Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science, Mrs. Filmore and Unity, Mrs. Aimee Semple McPherson and the so-called 'Foursquare Gospel,' Pentecostalism and its vast majority of women preachers with the blight of sinless perfection doctrine, radical emotionalism, 'speaking in tongues' and trances, its overemphasis on healing that leads thousands to despair after false pretenses of healing—these things surely should warn us that there is infinite harm in women preaching.”

SOURCE: Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers; by Dr. John R. Rice; pg. 58; Sword of the Lord Publishers, P.O. Box 1099, Murfreesboro, TN, 37133; copyright 1941; ISBN: 0-87398-065-4

Amen! Women preachers do some good, but the harm they do far outweighs the good. The Bible plainly teaches for women to keep silent in the Church. 1st Timothy 2:12, “But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” The best way to win souls is to obey God, and to do things God's way.

Women are Scripturally forbidden to be pastors, preachers or leaders over men in any capacity. The average woman today is a feminist in her philosophies. This is tragic and a curse upon America. This is why the sin of abortion is commonplace. This is why the sin of divorce is so prevalent. One sin begets another. Women preachers and feminism are synonymous.

Women have equal human rights, are of equal worth, and are not inferior to men in any way; BUT, woman do not have a right to usurp authority over men. Feminism DEMANDS equality in the area of authority, and cries "inequality" if they don't get it. This is what Lucifer said in Isaiah 14:14... "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Lucifer just wanted EQUALITY, wanting to be "like" the most high.

Feminists claim they are simply asking for equality, to be "like" men in authority. Today, America is infested with women in authoritative power positions, and America is going to Hell because of it. Homosexuality is commonplace, abortion has become completely shameless, pornography is considered normal, divorce is highly encouraged nowadays, etc. Sin! Sin! Sin! Feminism is a Trojan Horse sin, that brings with it a slew of godlessness and woeful evils. Feminism and the Word of God are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to each other!

Meet Carter Heyward—an Episcopalian priest, a militant feminist, a lesbian who performs same-sex marriages, and a promoter of child sacrifice through abortion...

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."

SOURCE: Carter Heyward, Massacre of Innocence, from a newsletter published by the National Abortion Federation.

Do you see what happens when women enter the pulpit? It was Solomon's wives who turned his heart away from the Lord, and introduced child-sacrifice to the pagan god Molech again in Israel (1st Kings 11:4-8).


Catherine Booth was an Avowed Feminist Rebel

One of the best worst examples of Christian Feministhood is Catherine Booth (wife of Salvation Army founder, William Booth). According to her biography, Catherine Booth was an avowed feminist. The Bible says, "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft..." (1st Samuel 15:23). Feminism is a horrible sin! Catherine Booth objected to the idea that women are the "weaker sex," which according to the Holy Bible they are (1st Peter 3:7). Booth was a staunch feminist, who publicly criticized her husband, yoked together with unbelievers, and shamed the name of Christ. She was a disgrace to the name of Christ.

It was not until 1860 that Catherine first started to preach. One day in Gateshead Bethseda Chapel, a strange compulsion seized her and she felt she must rise and speak. Later she recalled how an inner voice taunted her: "You will look like a fool and have nothing to say". Catherine decided that this was the Devil's voice: "That's just the point," she retorted, "I have never yet been willing to be a fool for Christ. Now I will be one." It was the Devil's voice alright, that seized her and compelled her to rise and speak, because the Bible states... "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1st Timothy 2:12). Catherine Booth, and rebellious women preachers today like Melissa Scott, have twisted the Scriptures in an attempt to justify their rebellion. God calls men to preach, NOT women.

Women are not to "usurp authority" over men in any capacity, at any time or in any place. Also, the word "church" is not mentioned in 1st Timothy chapter two. Thus, 1st Timothy 2:11-12 applies in the home, and in society in general. Women are to take a back seat and let the men drive. Meddling feminists are destroying churches, marriages and homes all across America. Say what you will, feminism is rebellion of the Devil, and it has infested many of our churches and homes today. Feminism is more deadly than arsenic, the AIDS virus and the Bubonic Plague all combined. The same fool that will laugh at what I just said is likely also a supporter of abortion rights. Abortion has killed far more people than arsenic, the AIDS virus and the Bubonic Plague ever have. It is estimated worldwide that 400,000,000 children have been murdered by abortion!!! Woe unto the wicked!


Women are to Keep Silent in Matters of Authority

What is meant by: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection"?

It simply means that women have different roles than men in the church, in the home and in society. Men and women are inherently equal in worth and dignity; but we do not have the same roles. Even the men in the church do not have equal roles. All are commanded to submit to the rule of the church elders.

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

"Silence" or "quietly" is the Greek word Hesuchia, which means...

"To rest, to cease from labor. To lead a quiet life, said of those who are not running hither and thither, but stay at home and mind their business."

Thayer’s English Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

The same Greek word "Hesuchia" is also used in 2nd Thessalonians 3:12...

"Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread."

Paul is simply saying that while we're at work, we are not the boss, we are the employees. That puts us into a submissive role. At work we are equal with others as human beings, having equal rights; but we don’t possess an equal role with the boss. The boss is in charge, and we are to submit. This is an excellent illustration of the women's role in marriage, the church and society. There is nothing inferior or demeaning about a wife obeying her husband, anymore than an employee obeying a boss to keep his or her job. The same is true in a church.


Feminist Paranoia, Hatred of Masculine Authority and Insane Laws

The Biblical teaching of womanly submission is vastly different than the monstrous image that feminists paint of authoritative husbands and pastors. If you don't do your job at work, you are going to get written up or fired. It should be no different in the home. A husband who is married to a rebellious wife has no recourse of action nowadays, because society has gone insane with "Domestic Abuse" laws. A husband legally can't rebuke, scold or discipline his wife in any manner, except to beg her to do her job at home.

So then who is going to correct her when she fails to care for the children? ... when she fails to clean the house? ... when she doesn't care about the children's safety? Child Protection Services? A psychologist? A shrink will just send a struggling wife to a psychiatrist for drugs that'll totally debilitate her. Good luck finding a church that'll care about your family. Despite the thousands of excellent churches in America, many people are finding it increasingly difficult to find a decent church that believes the King James Bible, isn't money-hungry, and a church that believes in goes soulwinning. Most pastors today are simply interested in making a living, and continually pressure their members for more money.

Men are prohibited in America from commanding their homes anymore. In most places in America today, police are required by law to remove the husband from the home, by force if need be, merely based on an accusation by the wife that he was abusive towards her. After the O.J. Simpson murder trials, feminists used the event to make wide-sweeping changes to our nation's laws, now commonly referred to as the "O.J. laws."

If you removed women from the Satanic Charismatic Movement, it would disappear overnight. Wouldn't that be a great thing! Women preachers are notorious for demonic speaking-in-tongues, fraudulent faith healing, and greed. God likens rebellion to witchcraft in 1st Samuel 15:23. Women who enter the pulpit are disobeying God, openly and shamelessly, which puts them in the same boat as demonic witches.

How does all this fit in with women preachers? In many ways. As America has turned apostate, feminism has crept into our churches. As a consequence, woman have entered the pulpit in alarming numbers, bringing lesbianism and a host of other sins into the church. The sin of rebellion is a Trojan Horse sin. In other words, when a woman rebels against God by usurping authority over men, a host of other sins follow. Women must accept their role in the Body of Christ as those who learn "in silence (quietness) with all subjection." Women preachers are repulsive. It's just not right, ethically or Biblical. Wherever you find a church with a woman in the pulpit, you'll find a liberal-minded church that is infested with doctrinal heresies. This is why God told women to shut-up, and for men to do the preaching. So shut up!

The following information is by Wayne Wells:

Eve Was Deceived; Not Adam

Does the fact that Satan chose Eve for this first temptation imply that women as such are spiritually weaker than men? Do they have some kind of inherent weakness that makes them more vulnerable to temptation and sin, as some think 1st Peter 3:7 is suggesting? (being the weaker vessel)

Why Did Satan Choose Eve?

The question of why Satan chose Eve as the object of his temptation is made all the more relevant by Paul’s remark that "it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression" (1 Tim. 2:14) This text does mean something.

Does it mean that Eve was chosen because Satan considered her more deceivable, more vulnerable than Adam? Was Eve the "weaker vessel" - emotionally or intellectually?

The Bible does not reveal Satan’s motive for beginning with Eve. It just records the fact that Eve was the first to be tempted and deceived, and the first to sin. We are not told whether it was part of a deliberate strategy of Satan, or if his choice was just random. But the fact that we do not know for sure why Satan chose Eve does not negate the force of 1st Timothy 2:14, which says that Eve’s being the one who was deceived does have something to do with women’s being prohibited from teaching men and having authority over men in the New Testament church.

The really significant point is that (according to 1st Timothy 2:14) it is not the transgression itself, but the deception that is being held against Eve. The fact that Eve was deceived by the Devil is in some way related to the fact that women are not permitted to teach men and have authority over men in the church. We simply cannot deny this connection. The problem, though, is to explain it. Exactly what is the connection?

It is possible that there is something inherent in women’s nature that somehow makes them more vulnerable to deception concerning spiritual matters and; therefore, less qualified to teach men and have authority over men in the context of the church. This would be consistent with Peter’s description of woman as the "weaker vessel" (1st Peter 3:7). Peter does not explain the nature of this "weakness," nor does he suggest that it constitutes some kind of flaw or fault in women. Whatever it is, it would be consistent with the role for which God created woman in the first place. That is to say, the characteristics that make a woman more strongly suited for her intended role in the family and church, make her weaker with reference to what is required for duties of headship and leadership. Such characteristics probably have to do more with her emotional rather than her intellectual nature.

Whatever this "weaker" nature may be, it is possible, if not likely, that this is what Paul has in mind as underlying the fact that Eve was deceived by Satan whereas Adam was not, and that this is the very same thing that disqualifies women from teaching men and having authority over men. If this is so, then the reason for this disqualification is not Eve’s sin at all. Neither is the disqualification some kind of penalty, either for her sin or for allowing herself to be deceived.

It is simply some inherent, created female characteristic that manifests itself in susceptibility to this kind of deception.

1st Timothy 2:13 gives as the primary reason for the prohibition the fact that Adam was first created, then Eve. In other words, the prohibition is grounded in creation, not in some aspect of the Fall. To say that what is true because of creation is also a part of the penalty for the Fall seems inconsistent. But if the prohibition is related to some inherent female characteristic which itself is related to vulnerability to deception, as the first explanation suggests, then 2:14 is also basing the prohibition on human nature as created, and not on the Fall as such.

The New Testament teaches a difference in the roles of men and women. The differences of roles are based on God’s choice of creation. God chose to make men and women different and they have different responsibilities as they work together to serve God.

1 Corinthians 11:3-9

But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man... For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14

Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Feminism has been one of the most successful social movements in our nation.
Although there have been some legitimate goals, one of the results of this movement is to influence our culture to ignore the fact that there is a difference in the roles of men and women.

When we study the Bible, the issue is not one of equality, but of roles.

The Bible teaches an equality of men and women. Both men and women:

Are made in the image of God
Have dominion over the earth
Are joint heirs in Christ.
The Bible clearly teaches a distinction in the roles of men and women.

The early leaders in the feminist movement recognized this.

After their views became more accepted, others have tried to interpret the Bible to fit their views.

This is similar to what happened with the issue of evolution. Before Charles Darwin and Charles Lyell, no one ever thought that the Bible taught any evolutionary origins of life. After Evolution became accepted by many in society, religious people tried to bend and twist the Bible to fit evolution rather than allow the Bible to mean what it says. Result - the acceptance of the day-age theory and the gap theory. Neither of these ideas come from a careful reading of Genesis, but they are an effort to force Genesis to match the beliefs of the world.

The same has happened with the roles of men and women. Much of what is being promoted today does not come from a careful reading of the Bible, but is an effort to make the Bible to fit the views of the culture in which we live.

END

Biblical Conclusion

The Word of God is abundantly clear that women are to be "silent," not only in the church, but in public as well. We read in 1st Peter 3:1-5... "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." A woman is to have a "meek and quiet spirit" at all times.

There is nothing "meek" about feminism. The dictionary defines "meek" as being "Humble in spirit or manner; suggesting retiring mildness or even cowed submissiveness; very docile." Feminism is not humble in any way; but is clamorous and demanding... "A foolish woman is clamourous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing" (Proverb 9:13). The dictionary defines "clamorous" as "Conspicuously and offensively loud; given to vehement outcry." Is there a more offensive group given to vehement outcry than feminists? I think not. The National Organization of Women (NOW) ought to be called The National Organization of Witches, because 1st Samuel 15:23 equates rebellion with the sin of witchcraft. Feminism is an act of rebellion against a Holy God. Women are commanded to submit to, and obey, their own husband.

Women preachers are ALL false prophets! A woman preacher cannot obey 1st Peter 3:5, i.e., to have a meek and QUIET spirit, when she is preaching with authority from a pulpit. Melissa Scott is a false prophet and is a good example of why women shouldn't be preachers. Boy, she can dazzle the crowds with her profound knowledge (so it seems), but the audience has no idea what she's talking about because she's rambling on incoherently. To watch her preach such utter nonsense with a man's authority is repulsive.

Don't forget that Eve was the one who was deceived; not Adam. We read in 1st Timothy 2:11-14, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." The Bible gives 2 reasons why women are not to preach, teach or lead men. The fact that God created Adam first is significant. The woman was created FOR the man. Like it or not, no woman will be happy until she is serving a man, i.e., her husband. Thus, men cannot lead if women are getting in the way. The modern idea of a husband and wife both working jobs, and hiring a stranger to raise their kids is insanity. 1st Timothy 5:14 stresses the importance of women being at home. A woman's place is in the home.

The Bible makes an issue of the fact that Eve, the first woman, was deceived by Satan. This is significant. Say what you will, women are more vulnerable to Satanic deceptions than are men. Do you know why there are over one billion hellbound Roman Catholics in this world? It's because of mamas! Do you know why Muslim kids strap dynamite on themselves to go blow up dozens of people? It's because of mamas!

"The spiritual life of a nation, city, town, school, church, or home never rises any higher than the spiritual life of women."

SOURCE: Dr. R.G. Lee (Payday Someday)

It's time for women to get back to raising children for the Lord, and to leave the preaching to God's men. Women possess the greatest power in this world, the power of influence; but when women usurp authority over men to do so, their influence becomes one of evil feminism and rebellion.

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." —2nd Thessalonians 1:8

Ye Must Be Born Again! | You Need HIS Righteousness!

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sermonindex

I just read an abominable article written by a proud and stubborn woman attempting to justify rebellious women doing what only God has ordained men to do: preach from the pulpit as ordained ministers.

NONE of the examples given proved her points and actually proved just the opposite. Sharing dominion over nature, Creation, is not the same as who has the right to preach. That is non sequitur and a dangerous leap in logic!

God ordained men to be the head of the household and of the household of faith. It does not mean women are stupid or unable to be eloquent or a spiritual leader -- it's simply not their place and they're trespassing when they follow deceived Eve and try and teach Adam (who wimply went along, abdicating his God-ordained role).

Yeshua doesn't try and usurp the authority of the Father! (1 Cor. 15:24). Neither should women vainly attempt to usurp the God-given authority of men, any more than children ought to disobey their parents (Ephes. 6:1, Col. 3:19-21). Fathers are told not to unnecessarily provoke their children, and the same could be said about husbands concerning their wives, otherwise they'll become discouraged. God does have government structure and family order according to His purpose, even as He has called Israel before other nations -- not because we're better, but because He has chosen it to be that way in His infinite wisdom and Father knows best (Amos 3:2).

Satan is the one who coveted "equality" -- actually supremacy -- with and over the Father! He is the wicked one who thought he was being unfairly controlled by a domineering God, restrained, repressed, oppressed, held down and cruelly kept in his place (Isa. 14:12-15).

Sympathy for the devil? Never! Such bitter attitudes and warped way of thinking cost him everything as he will ultimately be destroyed in the Lake of Fire "and the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, [God] has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day" (Jude 6).

Korah, Dathan and Abiram tried to force themselves into an office that God hadn't given them under the guise of "we're all equal." They added insult before their injury, accusing Moses and Aaron of being on a power-trip like misguided feminists today falsely accuse men who stand up for the biblical law and order as having big egos and wanting to "lord" it over women: "They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, "You take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them [chanting the mantra of "we're all equal"], and the LORD is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?" (Numbers 16:3).

An earthquake swallowed their pride and their rebellion went down in history; The Beast will soon trespass on "the holy place" upon the Temple Mount and install some abomination in the Temple, besides being inducted into office there (Matt. 24:15, 2 Thess. 2:4). Both examples reflect Satan's discontent and idolatrous mindset, his "covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col. 3:5, Rev. 21:8).

Deborah wasn't a spiritual preacher -- she was a political Margaret Thatcher (Judges 4:4-5). Regardless, exceptions are not to be twisted as the rule. Huldah was consulted in private, she didn't preach or take the stand (2 Kings 22:13-20). Phoebe was a deaconess and served as such -- not as a minister (Rom. 16:1-2). Anna praised God and didn't preach in any official capacity, any ordained office (Luke 2:36-37). Same goes for Miriam leading the women (only) in praise - no official capacity, especially over men.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Ephesians 5:22-23
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Titus 2:5
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

The Word of God has been clear on this matter for centuries. It is only due to the spirit of rebellion in this degenerate time that this ungodly leaven has begun to rise again among some. Don't be misled like Eve who fell for the serpent's lies (Gen. 3:13, 1 Tim. 2:14). Don't let the plain and simple Scriptures be twisted to your self-destruction (2 Cor. 11:3).

Everybody has their God-ordained place now and in the Kingdom-Family of God and we should praise God for what He has given us to do within that holy place - - not trespass on another's responsibility.

A deaconess shouldn't think she's an elder or a deacon think he's an apostle, or a Levite think he's a priest or an angel think he's God, or children think they're the head of household or employees think they're the employer, but all must remain subject to the Word of God and maintain humility and grace and grow in our proper office, our God-given station in life, so help us God (Rom. 12:3).

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itg3712

OT and NT instruct us concerning a woman named Jezebel:

In the New Testament...

Unto the angel of the church in Thyatira...

"... I have a few things against you, because you are allowing that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to TEACH..." (Revelation 2:20)

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sermonindex

Acts 2:17
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and your daughters will prophesy.

Acts 2:18
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 21:9
He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, make nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jrsus.

Sobmitted in Christ by Blaine Scogin

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cryinthenite

Man is head of woman.

We are all one in the body but all are not the foot.

The order in the home does not go out the door in Christs church.

Then again most homes are out of order.

Peter stood with 11 men on that day.

Women was apart but the men were doing the speaking.

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HeartSong

Google "David J. Stewart Paul Washer" and see what you find.

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Trekker

Repentperish, i agree with your post about female preachers, etc. I dont like seeing women in the pulpit, and that includes people like Ann Graham Lotz, Elizabeth Elliot, and others. I have gained some blessing from listening at times to Nancy Leigh Demoss, but never know what to make of her role. Is it made ok if they are only preaching to women?

I myself respect men more in general, but i could never submit to a husband/man unless he has wisdom and proved himself trustworthy, proved himself worthy of my respect. When a man fails to be all that a man is 'spose to be then that is when women take up the slack and fill the pants meant only for men. That is what happened in this country. And first it happened in homes across America.

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El-Bethel

Bro Zac poonen has spoken about prophecy on four titles. Anyone can hear from the below site.

1. Introduction to prophecy

2. Prophecy in the old testament

3. Prophecy in the New testament

4. Clarifications about prophecy.

Your views about prophecy will be changed for sure.

http://www.mannaforyou.org/zac_poonen_bible_studies_play.html

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sermonindex

"Google "David J. Stewart Paul Washer" and see what you find."

I did. I found some wacky stuff.

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sermonindex

Women have very important roles in the church, but one of them is not elder/pastor. It is confusion, especially for children, to teach that men are the head of the home... and then have those men go and submit to a woman pastor. Frankly tho, most people in a church with a woman pastor have that order screwed up in the home too. It's called liberalism.

There are times and places where it is fine for a woman to teach, but that is generally to other women (older shall teach the younger).

The problem in the church today is there are not enough real men with real backbones. The problem is with the men.

Krispy

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Lysa


“The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.” Luke 10.2

And this is all we have to talk about with the harvest being so great?


God bless,
Lisa

PS: Who is to say that God can't send "women" labors into the field? Maybe God has to send a few women into the garden because the men are standing around the edges of it arguing about who can go in? Just saying...

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sermonindex

Lysa... so which parts of the Bible are important, and which parts are not? Please enlighten us. :-)

Krispy

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sermonindex


Another woman hater thread!!

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Seriously, Approved...?

Krispy

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sermonindex

"Seriously...?"

Yeppers!

Women do have their place in the Church and one of them is not to teach men. That is the subject to which Paul was referring.

If he had of expounded on the subject further he would have said that a woman can teach other women and children, but not to men. There should be a distinction in this thread regarding that because it shouldn't be an all purpose general thing that women should not teach period.

Women are good teachers and in the Church teaching the spiritual truths of the word of God should be left to the men, not the women.

If she is subjected to that, she can take what the man has said and repeat it. She is not to establish new teachings and we know where that leads to, a Jezebel spirit.

A Jezebel is one who is not subject to the authority. Ahab was king but Jezebel was usurping over him, sneaking around, coniving, whispering behind tapestries and the like, undermining every scheme the king had set in motion and probably sleeping with any soldier that was willing to be advanced.

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sermonindex

ummm... isnt that what I said?

Krispy

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sermonindex

ROFL

Ahem, *cough cough* I must confess I never read your post. And yes, you did say that. hehehe

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sermonindex

Ok... thought I missed something! lol

Krispy

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Lysa


With all due respect brother Krispy, you gave your opinion on Scripture and I gave mine and guess what? We disagree! LOL Imagine that! So, I’m not sure that either one of us could be enlightened to the other’s side! I will explain why I think that…

I stated in another thread (about being against tongues)… all arguments cease on my part when I receive the gift of divers tongues! So applying that to this thread … all arguments about women preaching cease on my part when I have been the beneficiary of the Lord using Godly women to minister (preach) and I have, so my arguments have ceased! (huge grin)

God bless you abundantly brother!( I think you know that I mean no harm and that I am not aggravated in the least!!)
Lisa

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sermonindex

Lysa... of course we can disagree and still love one another. Unfortunately there are those on SI who cant do that, and that truly is sad. There are some on here recently who personally attack me and then call me unloving. Comical at best, sad at worst.

So, here we go: what do you do with Pauls writings about women being silent in the church? What do you do with the qualifications for elders/pastors? Can a woman be the husband of one wife? Every instance in which Paul was declaring the order of church government concerning elder/pastors it was always always always in the masculine tense.

Paul even goes on to explain that if a MAN can not rule over his own home how can he rule over the house of God? Surely you and I agree that the husband is to be the head of the home, correct?

It matters not to me what your experience is... scripture is the final authority. And many say "that was a different culture!" But scripture says God never changes. Paul's writings are God's words. God has spoken.

What do you do with scripture?

Krispy

A
AbideinHim

"Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." (Galatians 3: 23-29).


"And one of the most wonderful things in Christ's household where guests become family members is that our own racial, social and sexual status does not make us any more or less than child and heir. Verse 28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female." Woe to the presumptuous guest who thinks that his Jewishness or free status or maleness has won his admission to the Lord's house, or merits a greater share of the inheritance. Ephesians 2:19 says that Jews and Gentiles in Christ are "fellow citizens … and members of the household of God." Ephesians 6:9 says that masters and slaves have but one master in heaven who shows no partiality. And 1 Peter 3:7 says that husbands and wives are joint-heirs of the grace of life in Christ. When Christ admits us into his protection and care by faith alone ("May I be your guest?") every possible ground for boasting is removed, whether racial, social or sexual. We are all utterly dependent on the honor of Christ not the value of our distinctives. And nothing is more secure than the honor of Christ." - John Piper

S
Sree

"With all due respect brother Krispy, you gave your opinion on Scripture and I gave mine and guess what? "

Lysa, if my assumption is correct about your identity, then it is sad that a person from CFC is having a wrong understanding of scripture. I am talking about accepting some part of scripture and rejecting another which brother Zac always hates. There is nothing wrong in misunderstanding a scripture, we all do but rejecting some scripture is a serious thing.
Yes an women can be used for harvest by God by making her prophesy but not make her preach for men. Reason begin simple, women can be easily decived and the last thing God will need is a decived preacher for harvest.
Let God's word alone be true and every men a lier. So if a women has to keep silent according to God's word then let her be.

L
Lysa

Sree wrote:
Lysa, if my assumption is correct about your identity, then it is sad that a person from CFC is having a wrong understanding of scripture. I am talking about accepting some part of scripture and rejecting another which brother Zac always hates.

Maybe I read your post wrong… yes, I am a woman but no, I do not attend CFC, (I listen to Zac's sermons and recommend them) but I live in the US; so perhaps your assumption is wrong about my identity. My real name is Lisa and I try to always sign with my real name as in…

God bless you,
Lisa

D
DEADn

I haven't read every single post on this thread but I did skim some of them and I didn't find a piece of information that I am curious about.

What is the role of women within the church?

If they cannot be pastors or elders, can they be sunday school teachers?

Also, If man is the head of the woman, how many households, in American Christianity are really run by the wife? That is just a side thought.

I actually want to use bits and pieces of this thread, HOPEFULLY, as a teaching I need to do in my women's studies class on religion. Religion and women.

J
JB1968

They are? Very slanted... What about Paul telling the women who prophesied that they must cover their head? So it must have happened in Bible days...

H
HeartSong


If the head is in the right place, the rest of the body will follow.

L
luke673

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


enough said

L
Lysa

IF you are not going to have a logical conversation. I can't either.

God bless you,
Lisa

L
luke673

these are not my words. this is straight from paul. i dont think a man should lord over a woman. the woman was taken from the rib. not the foot. and not the head. but in between. weman are to be loved and cherished. not lorded over. but in the church. to have no authority over a man. weman are to be subjective to men. does that mean they cant have an opinion of corse not. and men should listen to there opinion in the home. not in church. men should lead the church and only the men. would christ bride (the church) tell him what should be. i think not.

S
Sree

yes, I am a woman but no, I do not attend CFC, (I listen to Zac's sermons and recommend them) but I live in the US

I know that you live in US. Have you been to the pennsylvania conference of brother Zac?

S
Sree

Brother Zac once said that he respects the word so much that if the word had said that Husbands should submit to wives then he will go straight to his wife and say 'darling what do you want me to do next, please give your orders'.

The key here is to be obident to the word of GOd and not pride of being men.

I seriously believe that women should cover their heads in Church. But if someone is not willing to do that they are just showing their spirit of unsubmision. They will suffer loss and will never be able to inherit God's perfect plan for them. God can still use such women by showing their spirit of rebelion and humbling them. But that is not God's perfect plan for them.

L
Lysa

Sree:
I know that you live in US. Have you been to the pennsylvania conference of brother Zac?

No, I've never been to any of his conferences.

God bless,
lisa

G
ginnyrose

"1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

How do the verses above relate to 1Corinthians 11:1-16?

Thank-you.

ginnyrose

L
luke673

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.


"1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

i think they relate very close.

S
sermonindex

The role for women in the church are many. They can be deaconesses, teachers of other women and the children, etc. But they can not lead the flock or teach/preach from the pulpit to a mixed adult crowd.

Now someone always brings up women missionaries. I will tell you that if the men will not stand up and be obedient to the Lord, then yes... He will send women. But it is to the shame of the spineless men.

To answer the question about roles in the homes of Americans, no the roles are screwed up in the homes for the most part too. Men do not lead, the wives do. Men are lazy and wives are generally naggers. If men were not lazy and loved their wives as Christ loves the church... women would tend not to have to nag.

The reason women want to be in control and have the power (even passive aggressively) is because of rebellion against God. That is the root cause. Submission is the giving up of that rebellion.

It's also the same reason most "men" are lazy and spineless. Rebellion against God.

Krispy

D
DEADn

When it comes to the bible is it safe to say that women should not expect equality as a result of Eve and the temptation?
-And that her desire would be for her husband, which becomes the quest authority she longs for but is not supposed to have it as a result of what God decree in Genesis?


Also, a previous post mentioned something about a preacher saying that if the bible had said that the husband should obey his wife he would ask his wife what she wanted him to do. This strikes as ridiculous because that is not how a marriage is built- is it? It should be more subtle then that. Isn't a marriage one that is fluid in which we have our roles and we do them without having be asked to do them? My wife and I share things near equally. I know things that she doesn't and vice versa and we blend well together. We help each other in our weaknesses. She doesn't ask me what I want her to do- for me to hear that from her means there is no marriage. It tells me that she is near some type of slave and that isn't right. She thinks for herself and in the end we don't make decisions unless we talk it out and then I am the one who makes the move. She expects me to do that without coming out and saying such. I think if marriage isn't in a similiar fashion then it isn't marriage but looks similiar to marriages in Islamic countries. Just something to think about.

S
sermonindex

We are to submit one to another in marriage. And we are to do so in love. The wife is not subservient to the husband. But the husband is responsible to lead. And when he leads in a godly way... the godly wife will happily follow.

My wife is much better than me in many areas, and I would be a fool not to take her advice on different issues. We truly have a partnership. But when it comes to making final decisions on things, or leading the family spiritually... if falls on my shoulders. I love, protect and guard over her... and she helps, supports and loves me.

Does that make sense?

Krispy

D
DEADn

KK

Your thoughts are my thoughts exactly yet the way I see it get stated in these conversations they seem really perverse to me or just maybe way overstated? Kind of like emphasizing the law forcefully without emphasizing that love brings it all together. I think it is a reason why fundamentalist views are often attacked because of the seemingly in your face thoughts.

Funny thing, Sunday evening wife and I went to this church we are attending to get into a 'life group' For a number of weeks. We always hold hands and we were stopped by one of the leaders and he complimented us on the very act. He said he doesn't see that happen alot anymore in life or in church. Then he proceed to recite a poem to us about it. Funny how people notice things about you when what you do only becomes natural. I think the same thing can be said of the christian life.

S
sermonindex

Amen brother... keep holding your bride's hand!

Krispy

G
ginnyrose

At first glance and a casual perusing this thread appears to be quite intimidating. However, after a careful reading I hear the concern expressed about females in formal leadership over a mixed group. This is I understand and agree because the scripture teaches that a woman cannot be "the husband of one wife".

The question rose about female missionaries...I have an testimony to share about this...

When I was hired in to work at the Crises Pregnancy Center 24 years ago we were told that we are not to counsel males. If males come in we are to call the director (who was a male) to take over. In his absence we are to call a local pastor whose church was nearby to come in to takeover.

The day came when these well laid plans were challenged. I was alone at the center. I got a call and knew from the conversation a male was coming in - with who or why I do not remember - and the director was gone. The pastor who was supposed to be on call did not answer the phone...I could not find another male to come in to take care of this one. I almost panicked! What am I going to do??

Then the Holy Spirit so gently asked me a few questions, "would you refuse to give a cup of water to a thirsty person because he is a male?"

"No." Oh. OH. Never thought of that.

"Sandra, you have the symbol of power and authority on your head, now use it!"

"Yes, Lord."

And I did. Problem solved.

Whenever I meet up with someone who needs an encouraging word, someone who needs to be challenged to live closer to the LORD or whatever, I am to use the power and authority invested in me by the Holy Spirit to give that 'cup of water' to a thirsty soul. And there are plenty of folks out there that are thirsty - and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, ages, but limited to two genders! :-)

S
sermonindex

And I can testify to what Ginny is saying... because she has been not only an encouragement to me at times, but also very challenging to me too. She will tell me plainly sometimes when I am wrong, etc.

There is nothing wrong with that. We read of Priscilla and Aquilla encouraging Paul in his ministry.

Scipture is very clear tho about women not being pastors... and why.

Krispy

G
ginnyrose

If we females are alert to the needs about us, we will find so many opportunities to encourage, challenge, help that we would not have time to hanker after formal leadership of a mixed group.

In being able to render assistance it is imperative that we know the LORD intimately, that we know the scriptures well so we can handle whatever challenges are thrown our way. Just because we are not called to pastor a church does not mean we are to remain ignorant of God's WORD, or doctrine. Scripture is clear that we should seek the best gifts, namely that of prophesying. This we all need to do. When this is operational you will find lots of opportunities to exercise this gift. And it can get wearisome, and discouraging when you invest so much into this person and they spurn God's call. This is one reason why males are better qualified to lead a larger group because of their emotional stamina - females are too weak, we would break down too easily.

Regardless of your gender, let us work to fulfill Isaiah 61:1-3:

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
Because the LORD has anointed me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;

2 To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

3 To grant those who mourn in Zion,
Giving them a garland instead of ashes,
The oil of gladness instead of mourning,
The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting.
So they will be called oaks of righteousness,
The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.

My opinion...

L
Leeza

Amen GinnyRose!

D
DEADn

"This is one reason why males are better qualified to lead a larger group because of their emotional stamina - females are too weak, we would break down too easily. "

Ginnyrose

This is an interesting comment you make here. How do you figure that females are emotionally weak vs males? I am just wondering.

J
JB1968

"Catherine Booth was an Avowed Feminist Rebel

One of the best worst examples of Christian Feministhood is Catherine Booth (wife of Salvation Army founder, William Booth). According to her biography, Catherine Booth was an avowed feminist. The Bible says, "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft..." (1st Samuel 15:23). Feminism is a horrible sin! Catherine Booth objected to the idea that women are the "weaker sex," which according to the Holy Bible they are (1st Peter 3:7). Booth was a staunch feminist, who publicly criticized her husband, yoked together with unbelievers, and shamed the name of Christ. She was a disgrace to the name of Christ.

It was not until 1860 that Catherine first started to preach. One day in Gateshead Bethseda Chapel, a strange compulsion seized her and she felt she must rise and speak. Later she recalled how an inner voice taunted her: "You will look like a fool and have nothing to say". Catherine decided that this was the Devil's voice: "That's just the point," she retorted, "I have never yet been willing to be a fool for Christ. Now I will be one." It was the Devil's voice alright, that seized her and compelled her to rise and speak, because the Bible states... "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1st Timothy 2:12). Catherine Booth, and rebellious women preachers today like Melissa Scott, have twisted the Scriptures in an attempt to justify their rebellion. God calls men to preach, NOT women."

This seems like slander on the character of someone you have never met. She has done more to reach others with the gospel than you and me combined. 1800's feminism is nothing compared to the feminism of the 1970's to today. She did not advocate what feminists today advocate- lesbianism, homosexuality, women as head of households, etc. You need to get your facts straight.

How did she yoke together with unbelievers? At least she went to the "least of these." Most Christians today are too good to get their hands dirty for Christ. She wasn't ashamed to help a prostitute, drunkard, or gambler. She did what Jesus did. Is that wrong? Did not Jesus do that for us?
Is it wrong for her to stand up and speak for Christ? I don't recall her being a pastor. Was it wrong for Pricilla to labor with Aquilla? Was it wrong for Philip the evangelist's four daughters to prophesy (Acts 21:8-9)? I do not believe it is the woman's responsiblity to pastor, but in these cases they preached or prophesied.
Catherine Booth did follow I Cor. 11:5 and have her head covered. She did wear a Salvation Army bonnet. Paul would not have mentioned this if some women did not prophesy. We do notice in the Bible there were some exceptions to the rule; for the Bible does give some examples of women who did speak publicly for Christ.
Is it totally accurate to say God does not call women to preach when he called Philip's four daughters? Something to think about. Many an exception to the rule?

S
sermonindex

What about women who lead in the persecuted church. Often times the husband may be jailed or martyred and the wife has to lead the house church. Mainly because there are no mature males to lead.

In thep current issue of the VOM magazine Tom White writes about a young woman in Columbia who stepped forth to preach at the funeral of a young man who was killed by FARC guerrilas. The pastor was afraid to preach. She did.

Blaine

B
berakot

What about female missionaries since they are bound to preach gospel, they are sinful,so should be called back home!
Many of female missionaries are singles because there are not enough men who are willing to go to that hard places with them and preach there.

S
sermonindex

To the last two questions... we already answered that.

We all agree there are situations where God will raise up women. If the men are all jailed He will raise up a woman to go forth. I dont think there is any question about that.

Where the men are spineless He will raise up a woman to the shame of the men.

But these are cases that should always be the exception and not the rule. And there really is no reason for this to happen here in the west, and especially in America. Women pastors in America are not in those positions because there are no men. Generally speaking they are in those positions because that is what THEY aspired to... in direct disobedience to God.

I know 3 women pastors personally (related to one of them). All have a very rebellious spirit, all are extremely liberal in their theology and politics, all are pro-gay marriage, and 2 of the 3 are pro-abortion.

But these exceptions in different places around the world do not give a reason for people to ignore the Word of God where that is not the case. But lately I've noticed a trend here on SI where people are looking for any way possible NOT to obey the clear teaching of the Word of God.

"How far can we stray from the Bible and still be Christians" seems to be the popular uncurrent of the SI forums lately.

How about this answer: NONE AT ALL! If we purpose to do something that is clearly spelled out as not allowed by scripture... we sin. Even if we dont purpose and we do so out of ignorance... we sin.

The Bible says what it says and we ignore it to our own ruin. If the Bible says it, do it. If it says dont do it, dont do it! Period.

It's really that simple. And in the case of women pastos the Bible is plain.

Krispy

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Lysa

Krispy wrote:
We all agree there are situations where God will raise up women.

I ask this in all humbleness… You say that we “all” agree that there are exceptions but why are there exceptions? I ask this because logically speaking if it is disobedient for a woman to preach in America then logically it would have to be disobedient everywhere else in the world.

I'm not asking the following to be cantankerous (sp?) but... Is the Bible only true in America? (I do know the answer :) ) Is God not God of all the earth or only God of part of the earth?

I ask this b/c if God has exceptions say, in the Congo then there he must have exceptions in America. You can’t have your cake (it’s ok elsewhere b/c of exceptions) and eat it too (but no exceptions in America).

Would you please state (for the record) these exceptions that are in the Bible? I would personally like to know what we “all” are agreeing to scripturally. Thank you Krispy.

God bless you,
Lisa

S
sermonindex

Someone mentioned that in China there might be a house church where all the men are in jail... what then? Keep in mind NO examples were given, and this is purely hypothetical.

It's hard to deal in hypotheticals.

Suppose that were the case tho. Well, there is no forbidding of women to teach women... after all, all the men are in jail, correct?

In the OT it states in one passage that "women shall have rule over them". This is not meant as a good thing, but as a sign of God's judgement upon them (the men).

Can women be missionaries on their own to set up churches and preach? Well, if the men wont go, then I think God does use women in those cases. Bear this in mind tho concerning missionaries... Paul did NOT forbid or restrict women from evangelising! And that is the answer to the missionary question. The restrictions are on CHURCH LEADERSHIP... not evangelism such as missionary work.

Does this mean that God's Word doesnt go out? No... it does, but because it is God's Word, not because of the messenger.

I think we have to allow for certain situations in the world for God to use an available vessel to carry forth His Word. At the same time, He demands obedience to His Word.

Generally speaking tho... woman can not pastor a church, or be an elder, and should not teach or hold authority over men in the church. Period.

Krispy

L
Lysa


I am not trying to be a harp here but I truly believe that there is nothing logical whatsoever in this so-called “exception” rule.

Someone mentioned that in China there might be a house church where all the men are in jail... what then?

I just find it hard to believe that a woman missionary will not be teaching men, any men. I will give you that all the Christian men may be in jail but what about the unbelieving men in the village? Ah ha, this brings in whole OTHER perspective to the so-called “exception.”

Krispy, TRULY I’m not trying to deal in hypothetical’s, I’m trying to figure out why you (and the others) believe in this exception that women can be God’s messenger in teaching Christian or unchristian men in other countries but not in America.

I think we have to allow for certain situations in the world for God to use an available vessel to carry forth His Word. At the same time, He demands obedience to His Word.

How can we, brother, allow for certain situations in other countries if His word is so strict here, if he demands such obedience here? What Scriptural evidence you (and the others) have to support this exception?

God bless you,
Lisa

PS: I will not pursue this further, either you can provide the Scripture or you cannot. It’s ok either way. I still love you as a brother in the Lord!! God bless ya...

S
sermonindex


Some of us would like to know, what this thread is doing in the "SermonIndex Announcements".


If this unsecured, fading-in-and-out connection holds up until I post, I'd like to say something to the person who disparged Elisabeth Elliot and on this topic as well.

She was my mentor on a woman's role. She taught against "woman pastors or heads over the church". She taught that men lead the Church. She would never speak in a morning service when invited by a Pastor to do so, because she felt the morning service was for the men to break The Bread of Life, so she'd agree to speak, at the Pastor's invitation, but only in an evening meeting. She taught submission of wives - even to unsaved husbands and backslidden husbands, as long as what the husband wanted was not sinful. Her ministry was to "Women Only" but many many men enjoyed hearing her speak and her books yet didn't lose their roles nor maculinity. She was as "old fashioned", so to speak, as any woman in ministry that you'll ever find. She did not believe in women in leadership over men At All, and neither do I.
A woman can help give words to a 'leaderless' church, as in the cases that Brother martyr brought up. Deborah was a prophetess besides a GOD chosen judge - if you read the whole of her story and prefered the men go out to war without her - but Barak asked her to go with them.

In all of my travels, in countless type Born-Again Churches, I've only met one Pastor that rejected the words of a prophetess and it wasn't many years later that he was thrown out of the denomination for molesting young ladies - causing not only that Church hardship but breaking the hearts of his wife and 5 children.

Also - I've never yet met a Pastor that did not respect the words of an older woman in the Church - as Paul said to treat them as Mothers. We do listen to our mothers - don't we? That doesn't mean that [prophetesses or older Godly motherly type women] are usurping 'authority' over men at all - but their words are weighed first and then merely taken as Godly counsel - counsel from GOD or a direct prophetic word to HIS church - for the men are secure enough in their headship roles and know that if GOD can use a donkey, then He can surely use even a woman to speak directly to HIS church.
Many churches or members have averted spiritual or other types of disasters, by listening, at one time or another, to a female that The LORD may have spoken through, without them fearing of loss of the male-headship over the church.

The "silence in the church" was because the "new found freedom for women" after Christ, was being taken avantage of and women went from having to sit behind a veil in the synagogue, seperate from the men, to being able to "pray and prophecy" [open their mouths] during meetings and they were asking questions 'during' the meeting, causing disruption.

Even if a woman prophesies in the Church - if it's from GOD, it will not disrupt the service, but will be at an appropriate time and many of the mature Saints will bear witness to whether the message that she brings forth is/was from HIM or not.

There is an anti-woman spirit out there and we've seen it pass through here before, in 2008 and it was/is an ugly spirit and one that I know for certain that Jesus would not back. Remember, after His resurrection, He first appeared to Mary and told her to go tell the Brothers, 'He is risen.'

Sometimes, when you dig deep enough, you'll find that many who post anti-woman comments, didn't have the greatest Mom on earth, and/or they just didn't/don't honor her, as He's commanded.

S
sermonindex

I dont have all the answers, but I do know that I can not sit in judgement over someone like Corrie Ten Boom.

A clown like Joyce Meyer... yes. She is a heretic in both doctrine and practice. Corrie Ten Boom... No.

Here in a America there are two factors at work that have resulted in women pastors: Men not doing as they are commanded, and women doing what they are commanded not to do. Both have a root in rebellion.

Going around in circles over hypotheticals is a waste of time. Evangelising and missionary work IS NOT the same as being an elder in a local assembly.

I've known many missionaries over the years, including some women... and one of the very first things they do is exactly what Paul did... establish local (male) elders in local churches.

Paul never addresses women sharing the gospel with unsaved men. In fact, as noted before, Paul was taught by Priscilla and Aquilla (a husband and wife duo). But she was NOT an elder or pastor, and the teaching did not take place in the local assembly.

What I do know is that women are not to be elders or pastors and are not to have teaching positions in the local assembly where men are sitting under their authority.

Period.

I also know that if we do not speak the gospel that the very rocks will cry out.

Bottom line... Christian men need to either get on the ball, or stop calling themselves Christians.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Jesus-is-GOD...!!

Thank you!! That is exactly what I have been trying so unsuccessfully to say, but couldnt get it out in an understandable way!

And by the way, I was going to mention something to the person who said that about Elizabeth Elliott. Obviously that person's statements show how ignorant they are about her.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

What I havel posted is not a hypothetical reality but real. While you debate this issue some women are leading house churches in Vietnam, Cuba, China, etc. I have read their stories in Open Doors and Voice if the Martyrs. As posted previously, in the current issue of the VOM magazine a woman stepped forward to preach at a funeral while the pastor was afraid to do so. Was this Biblical. In our mindset probably not. But since we are not spilling our blood for Christ in this country it is so easy to debate what is correct doctrine.

Blaine

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sermonindex

Like I said, Blaine, I'm not going to sit in judgement over someone in VietNam. Here in the west, in the church I am a part of, we will obey the clear teaching of scripture. It's not a "mindset" or an "opinion", it's what the Bible says. Period. It says what it says. No interpretation necessary, it's plain.

As for this woman in VietNam... none of us really know the full context of what took place, so none of us are really in a position to speak one way or the other about it.

We are responsible for what happens in our sphere of influence and fellowship.

I dont have to answer to God for what happens in VietNam in at a funeral. I do have to answer to God for what I do here in my corner of the world.

The Bible clearly states that women are not to teach or have authority over the men of a local assembly. Period. There is no debate about this, that is what it says.

By the way, I do not consider a funeral to be a gathernig of the local assembly.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

I did not start this thread, by the way.

Krispy

C
Creation7

Blaine, you need to remember that God's Word transcends ALL cultures and situations. Also, sometimes things can happen that are not God's perfect will; they are simply his permissive will. A perfect example would be Deborah, as well as these woman elders in the persecuted church.

S
sermonindex

Found this, thought it applied well to what I was saying about women missionaries:

"Scripture establishes the norm. As Christians we apply what we learn from the word, to the situations at hand. So, what about the situation where a woman missionary has converted a group of people, say in the jungle somewhere, and she has established a church? In that church, she is then functioning as a pastor and teacher having authority over men in the church. Should she not do this?

"First of all, she should not be out there alone. She should be with her husband or, at the very least, under the oversight of a church body in the presence of other women and men. Missionary work is not a lone endeavor to be handled by single women.

"Second, if in some highly unusual set of circumstances there is a woman in a lone situation, it is far more important that the word of God be preached and the gospel of salvation go forth to the lost than not. Whether it be male or female, let the gospel be spoken. However, I would say that as soon as there is/are males mature enough to handle eldership, that she should then establish the proper order of the church as revealed in scripture and thereby, show her submission to it."

Krispy

J
JB1968

I don't agree that women should be pastors, but I thought about the missionary movement into southeast asia in the 1800's. Many sending organizations would not send male missionaries who were not married, or would only send single female missionaries. THe reason was because of the sexual temptations the men faced with the nude/semi-nude native females; and their falling into sin with them.

Also, what about the scripture that says there is no male nor female in Him (Gal. 3:28)? How would this apply to women preaching, teaching, and evangelizing?

Some one earlier said all the female pastors they knew were liberals...etc. Though I do not agree with women pastors, I know of one, who along with her husband (she was the preacher), have started missions and churches. Souls were saved and they are conservative Bible believing Christians. Something to think about.

I'm still saddened by the slander on Catherine Booth. Still waiting to hear the response to my earlier comments concerning her.

S
sermonindex


The title has me a bit confused. By "preachers", do we just mean "pastors" or anyone that preaches?

Amen to Corrie Ten Boom being mentioned.

Are these phenomenal messages by Corrie considered 'preaching'?

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=14

J
JB1968

Where is repentperish?

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