jesus

I'm not going to argue or debate scripture with you. I just wanted you to know I will be in prayer for you.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Like a small child I simply choose to believe God is who HE says HE is and does what HE says HE will. I believe my FATHER!!

God Bless
maryjane

Not sure how old this is but I disagree with you. I really am neither Amerinian or Calvinist, I take an open stance on the matter.

We have all been offered Salvation, its our option to take it or leave it. We must come to God on His terms rather than ours. I agree no amount of prayer, bible study, etc will save us, its Only by Faith we are Saved not by works that any man should boast. Who is saved? those that have faith. And it is Faith that is counted as Righteousness. For me personally Calvinism makes little sense to me in this aspect dear brother, do you have assurance of Salvation? If no this is a error of doctrine, we can know we are saved according to 1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God SO THAT you may KNOW that you have eternal life."

Do you believe Christ died for you? Do you believe He rose again? Do you by faith identify with this fact of Christ? IF so the 1 John was written so you can have confidence in approaching God.

Yet another flaw I see with Calvinism and the usual TULIP model is Limited Atonement, if God has specifically chosen people as you have stated then John 3:16 would read For God so loved his chosen people, that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever of his chosen people believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. But it doesn't say His Chosen People but The World, Christ atoned for the Whole World, should they step into the cleansing blood of the lamb by faith.

I also seem to pick up frustation from you dear brother, God not answering you? Not getting anything out of your studies? We all go through seasons like this. As for those that seek and are never satisfied GOOD! I never want to be satisfied with where I am I want to press in deeper and harder and further as far as this ole bag of bones will take me all the way to Glory. Stop trying to hard and rest in the Lord brother, He loves you and He knows your heart and frustration, God is trying to teach you His way, submit to his discipline and don't despite it.

"For the last two years, I've been busting my butt to find out, talk to Him, understand Him, and salvation and everything but it's all meaningless, I made no progress in the last two years and all my effort for Christ in my life was worthless."
I have not visited this site for a long time and it so happened that I came across your post.
You are right in saying that unless God opens the door, unless He opens our eyes, we cannot see. But the good news is that He does want to open our eyes, He longs to help us and bring us to Him.
I want to share a few thoughts and pray that God will use it to encourage you.
I have gone in circles in my thoughts many times and I have tried to analyse as well and it has been a harrowing experience. Till I came to a point where, I was a total failure and I had to tell the Lord that I am in a mess and I need help and I cant do it on my own. I have repented a million times only to go and live the same way, that I have no courage to say "I repent" because I think it would just be a lie.
But the good thing was that I still new that Jesus was the only way and He died for me and that the Bible was God's word. This lead me to turn back to Him.
So it was like telling the Lord, I am at an end of my resource, I dont deserve to be saved, so if You in Your mercy wants to save me, You can. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, and immediately what came to my mind was that there was one, in the Gospel (I am not writing references here, but if you want I can come back and give you the references - so that you know it is from God's word.)who had possed the same question, if you want, you can heal me. And Jesus reply to Him was, that He did and He reached out and healed Him. So I knew in my heart that this was His answer to me as well.
What next ...
I said I cant look at tomorrow, I will start looking one day at a time ... as He had said, do not worry about tomorrow.
And I am going to start trusting His word in simple faith one day at a time.
So I am with you on this Codek and let us take this one step at a time, putting a simple child like faith on what Jesus has said. "Lord You said it and so I believ it."
It is true that at this point of time, you will forced to think of all those verses that will condemn you. But remember the Lord said in john 3:17 that He has not come to condemn but to save. So you can be sure that the condemnation is not from God.
God will start showing you the areas you have fallen, both with others as well as with God.
Acknowledge and confess your sin to God, where you feel you need to go and apologise go and do it, where you need to make restititution go do it. There may be cases that you may find hard to do, put it before God and God will give you the boldness, in some cases you may need to do across time, God will show you how to plan it out.
When we confess and repent, we can reach out to Him and say, yes Lord I believe that you died for my sins and I receive the forgiveness that you bought for me.
We need to learn to stand on His word and not on our feelings or reason. We can ask the Lord to teach us this ... again in simple faith because He said if we ask Him, He will do it.
Have this attitude in yourself as the early disciples. When Jesus asked them if they too wanted to leave Him, they said where else can we go, You have the words of eternal life. Cling to Him in simple trust like a babe.
And tell the Lord, I want to enter into that personal relationship with You.
Our greatest hope is that Jesus came to save sinners and so, where as our failures would have brought us low, we now see that it is for people like us, that Jesus has come.
I want to point you to a book that will help you in establishing the fundamentals of the Christian faith - http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/book_window.php?book=a_good_foundation
Coming back to my small story :-) .... I started trusting the Lord one step at a time and I started seeing that I was growing in the Lord. But then again there were times that the Lord was real and times He was not. I had been greatly challenged by Enoch who had walked with God, and I was telling myself, if Enoch in the OT could walk with God, then I too in the NT should be able to. I asked the Lord, is it possible that He can be as real to me as the people I see around. My prayer was, Lord I want you to be more real. In my heart the thought came, "I can be either real or not real ... there is no 'more' real." I changed my prayer and said, Lord I want you to be real in my life. The immediate word that came in my heart was, "I am with you till the end of age." and I was able to accept that fact in all simplicity and my eyes were opened to the continued presence of God. (Today I seem to have drifted form there and I belive together with you He wants to bring me back to that place once again.)
In simple faith taking Him at His word let go ahead and get hold of Him.

I beleive that we all have freedom of choice. We choose to except Christ or not to. If we except him it has to come from our heart, true repentance comes from the heart, the inward man, the soul.

One question. If Christ only chooses certain people and they are the only ones saved then why would he have to establish the great commission to send those souls out to spread the gospel, it had to be a choice of theres if they beleived or not. its all about freedom of choice. Does God know who will accept him or not? Sure he does since the beginning of time.He is Omniscience he knows all.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(KJV)

It takes time to grow and feel the Lord, to listen to his voice.

Prayers going up for you dont give up.

God Bless

Codek,
You're right. No one can assure you of your salvation but God Himself.

Romans 8v9, '...now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.'

Only you know if God's Holy Spirit resides in you. This is because God is the One 'who has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.', 2 Cor 1v22.

Let's hope this thread does not degenerate into futile debate, but rather for edification and the hope of God in your life.

Take care.

This is an important topic and one where there is much confusion. We know that no man can be saved without the work of the convicting power and drawing of the Holy Spirit.

We also know that it is not the will of God that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance and the knowledge of the truth.

Man is without excuse when it comes to salvation. All of the ways of God are just and true.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. Notice the word (whosoever). Men are lost because they reject the truth of the gospel, because they love the darkness and will not come to the light.

Mike

Does God have two will? Answer No, no He doesn't.

Are His ways Mysterious and unknown to man? Yes in that His Thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways higher than our ways. and NO He reveals Himself and His will in His Word.

God answers prayers according to His will, imagine a world where everyone's prayers are answered with a Yes. It just wouldn't work especially seeing as many of my selfish prayers, fame, fortune, etc ALL would have ruined me and eventually destroyed me. He knows better than I do and He knows what's for the better. I would suggest getting that Childlike faith back btw, You really won't have a relationship with the Father without it.

I do also believe on biblical synergism, in which the sinner has also responsibility to respond to God's wooing, yet I listened a lot to other reformed preachers. I think what John Macarthur said about assurance of salvation and doubt really makes sense. He said that when we are examining ourselves regarding salvation we should not look at our doubts, rather, to our desires-- if we desire to grow in holiness,hating sin, loving His word, loving the brethren etc.. Then the Spirit of God is in us. He said something like that. Anyway, Codek, you'll be in my prayers!:)

"And I got the short end of the stick because I don't see anyone in my life seeking God and his kingdom more than I am in my life. I'm not suffering the most in the world but among my peers, I definitely am and I'M GOING NOWHERE.

I RAN OUT OF MONEY. I WILL MOST LIKELY LOSE MY CAR, HAVE TO DECLARE BANKRUPTCY, HAVE NO REAL CHRISTIAN FRIENDS IN MY REAL LIFE AND MANY MORE CRAP. I'M ALSO UMEMPLOYED RIGHT NOW. MY LAST BOSS MADE EMPLOYEES WORK 24 HOUR SHIFTS AND MADE US KISS HIS ASS OR HE MADE SURE HE FIRED US."

Why are you looking at your peers? You know that is covenanting the things of your neighbor? And I am sure you are also aware that there are many in much worse situation than you who rejoice in the Lord despite the stress and persecution of this life. They are happy because their faith is solely in the Lord, they aren't scratching around wondering where their next meal will come (if indeed they get one) but trust the Lord will provide for them. The Lord is trying to teach you something very important Complete and utter dependance on Him. May I ask you did you ask for this? Did you pray a radical prayer of a changed life when you came to the Lord? If so brother you are getting what you asked for. Stop comparing yourselves to others its awefully prideful to say you are seeking God more than others around you. God directly opposes the Proud.

Codek,
Mind your language. I don't doubt most already have to hear godless profane language daily. I don't want to come on here and see it, regardless of what you are going through.

All that i can say is that it sounds like you are going through some tough times in your life. I dont know you personally but i can say that He never promised us a life at the top. There are going to be some tough times ahead. look at the early church life, many where beatin and myrtered.Dont lose your faith and your trust in Christ. stay strong fight the good fight. it'll all be worth it in the end. Remember Job and Paul. God told Ananuas in Acts 9:16 about paul.For I will shew him how many things he must suffer for my name’s sake.

God Bless

Codek after reading through some of your replies I realize there is little I can say to you right now, you seem determine in your heart and attitude towards GOD so again I will just pray for you. Some of my darkest times in my life, some of my deepest struggles, some of the times I have felt the most alone have been when my focus was on "self" and not on JESUS...

I will be in prayer for you
Maryjane

Forgive me for anything i have said that may have upset you. I love you with a Christ like love. I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. I hope that it all works out for you. Remember Jesus loves you. sorry if i did more harm than good.

I understand I have been where you are at more than once.
I think from your discussion we must live fairly close to each other. I have one question for you coming from what I have read of your postings, Do you hear God's voice speaking to you? For me it is down in my chest or to my spirit so to speak. If you don't then ask Him to speak to you. Remember the Word if you ask Him for bread He will not give you a stone.
You need to hear His voice in this day and age that we live in to be able to endure until the end.
On the matter of "None of them are saved." That is for God to decide. We are to judge but for one thing and that is whether or not someone is going to hell.

Remember also it is much tribulation that we shall enter into the Kingdom.

Please don't give up you are not alone you can contact me offline if need be. I've been walking with Him for over 30 years and have experienced that same things you are going through. I've been down to one cardboard box, I've been locked out of the house by my own family members. I understand the IHOP situation and concur and there are many others just like them.

If you truly want to be follower of Jesus this is going to be that hardest thing you will ever do, don't let anyone tell you the path is easy and the road is wide.

codek there was a point in my life where things were very low. I will not bother with all the details because in all truth they don't matter, what does matter is that I can tell you in that moment JESUS met me there. I was lost, completely in darkness and HE came for me. Now perhaps JESUS is stripping you of every thing, every single thing in your life so that all that will remain is you and HIM...how will you respond? I do not ask you this to make lite of what you are going through. I ask to give you something to think about, if at the end of today all you have left is the shirt on your back, you find yourself sitting on the street with out even a card board box to shelter you, iF you find yourself completely abandoned by all around you and you are cut off, alone and yet you still have CHRIST...is HE enough for you? IF at the end of this day all you have is JESUS is that enough for you? How will you respond when there is nothing left but you and HIM?

I will pray that you will be able to focus on JESUS and not so much on self, HE truly is worthy!

God bless
maryjane

Codek,
You said you read the Bible? Ever read this?

Ephesians 6v16, 'above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the firey darts of the wicked one.'

Remeber him? The wicked one, satan?

He is just poisioning your mind against God. And don't think he hasn't done the same to many, if not all who visit this site.

Doesn't Jesus tell us he was a liar from the beginning? Doesn't Jesus also tell us, that he is a thief, and that
he comes to steal, kill and destroy? John 10v10.

And it began in Genesis 3 when the serpent got Eve to doubt God's word with one simple sentence, 'Has God indeed said?' And, as we know, she fell for it.

I hope and pray you don't do the same. How is it we can trust the words of men, but the word of God we seem to question?

If it's an emotional experience you want, it might not happen.

Regardless of feelings, cling to the word. There is hope.

Praying.

To the Codek,

There was a stage in my life when I hit the rock bottom of self esteem and I felt I am not called by him. Then I asked lord to tell me frankly whether I have a place in his kingdom or not. And then he showed me John 14-1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
So if there is no room for me in his kingdom Jesus would have told me straight to my face that there is no place. But there is that is why he dint tell me there is no room. Same is the case with you, there is place in God's Kingdom for you and that is why Jesus has not said no to you yet. After God showed me that verse I got so much encouraged that there is a place for me and I just need to live worthy of it.
Codek, this Christian life is not just for reaching heaven. If only reaching heaven and escaping hell is your goal you will never become like Christ. Instead focus on Christ and ask God to fill with Holy Spirit to reflect Christ's glory on earth. He will do it for sure. He did not do it till now to you because your interest to reach heaven is much higher than Christlikeness. Change your priorities and God will change you.
Calvinism is not a solution at all, it will only turn you away from God or make you wait indefinitely for load to change you.
See when Jesus converted water to Vine he first asked the servants to fill the jars with water and then he did the miracle of turning it to wine. So there is a small human element involved in our holy christian life which cannot be neglected. If you become a Calvanist you will never do that human task and God will never be able to convert an empty Jar to Jar filled with Vine.
Also you need to understand brokenness and that is what God is leading you now into. I can explain you about this if you are willing to know. Please email me at desitcs@gmail.com if you are interested to know about brokenness which is a wonderful gift that I see God giving you but you have not accepted it now.

Codek,

Sounds to me like you have been reading to many articles, too many sermons, hence your confusion.

May I suggest you take a fast from reading theological works; fast from listening to sermons; fast from listening and observing others. Then you just search out the WORD, the Scriptures only and see what happens. Read the scriptures on your knees...if God is telling you you need to repent of something, do it. There may be a besetting sin that is blocking your relationship with God. Paul writes about that - I will let you look up that verse, you need the exercise.

You will find if you persist and are obedient to what he tells you. Too many want to hold onto a pet sin, hence the dryness of soul.

Blessings.

As often as I am reminded, I am going to uphold you in prayer that you be assured of God's unchanging everlasting love for you.
God will come through, dont give up on Him because He has not given up on you.
Pour out your heart to Him, tell it as it is, tell Him that you may not be reacting the way you aught to but at the end of it all tell Him that though you dont understand it all, you are still going to trust Him because you know He loves you.
Listen to no thought that tells you otherwise.
Also maybe you could mention your location (no need to mention personal details) here and one of the brothers or sisters could suggest a fellowship nearest to where you live. Maybe there is a whole hearted brother who stays very near to where you stay.
What then shall we say, if God did not spare His own Son, wont He with HIM, give us all things.
There is always someone in the word of God who might have gone through similar circumstances as you have, and God has always come through. So let us take heart!
James 5:10, 11 As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.
Isaiah said there was no one left but him.
From Joseph all was taken away.
Job was ridiculed by his friends
Heb 12:1, 2 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Hi Codek,

I think that there is much wisdom in what sister GinnyRose is saying.

Sometimes, during periods of confusion where our mind is clouded by so many thoughts, it is best to lay aside every weight of confusion (including every notion about doctrine) and simply spend time with the Lord and His Word.

Brother, all of your fretting or agonizing worry cannot make the Sun go up or down. God set it in order...for His purpose and our benefit.

Like many, I think that we often concern ourselves with passages of Scripture and build mountainous doctrines out of ant hills.

I would suggest leaving all of the confusion behind. Lay down any books or sermons that you might be listening to...and focus upon the simplicity and clear truths from God's Word.

During His time on Earth, many children came to Jesus. They weren't concerned with doctrines of "predestination." They weren't worried about eschatology. They weren't even worried about any traditions (including theological ones). Instead, they focused on what was really important -- spending time with Jesus.

After all, HE is all that truly matters.

I suggest that you simply stop running around with preconceived notions that you gleaned from books, sermons or contemplation, and instead just pick up the New Testament (particularly the Gospels) and fall in love with Jesus all over again. I would even suggest that you start with the Book of Luke (because Luke was quite a thinker as well).

One thing that I can promise you: Jesus sees you, hears you and loves you more than words can ever say! He sees your concern and fears...and holds nothing but the purest form of love than can ever be imagined for you. When you study the Gospels, I suggest that you do it slowly...and talk with Him as you read (asking for clarity). And remember that the things that He spoke 2,000 years ago were spoken with you also in mind.

I will be praying for you, brother. The Lord understands you...and He has great compassion for you. He loves you as much as any president, king, child or preacher featured on this website. Be encouraged.

Codek,

What do you want from Jesus, exactly? A better life? A life without trouble?

Sadly, the modern "gospel" message claims that God wants you to be happy and to have a better life here and now. This is as bad as the message of cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses (pay attention...), who try to make you focus on improving this life, rather than setting your hope on the inheritance that is in Christ. Don't listen to this junk (modern gospel or JW), because they will surely perish along with this world (2 Peter 3:7).

The truth is that:

If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
(1 Corinthians 15:19)

For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His.
(Romans 6:5)

Why are you upset at God? He has given you all things in Christ... Do you not care for the riches that are in Christ? (Eternal life, no more pain, no more sin, no more hypocrisy, God comforting you and wiping all tears from your eyes, seeing God face-to-face, no longer as through a dark glass, no more confusion, etc.) The reason why you are upset is because you wanted something that God had not promised. You wanted comfort, now... whereas God promised tribulations and trials... comfort comes later. (Acts 14:22, John 16:33)

Keep your eyes on the goal of your faith: the salvation of your soul! (1 Peter 1:9) Maybe you came to Jesus for the wrong reasons...

NOW IS THE TIME TO ACCEPT WHAT GOD HAS REALLY PROVIDED IN CHRIST JESUS: THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOUL. He paid the price at the cross, He conquered death by the resurrection. Do you think that God will refuse you if you accept His offer on His terms? Come on! May the Lord give you faith to see what His promises REALLY ARE, and to lay hold of them.

Love in Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Codek,
If I have ever been thankful to the LORD for saving me, I am thankful that He made me to know the depths of Islam and the emptiness therein because it is all human philosophy and disjointed human reasoning laced with absurd spirit interjections. Now I know the LORD Jesus and I am so free from man's chains and shackles. All my days I will crave to know Jesus more and more - not Calvinism, not Armenian ism, not Moseism, not Elijaism and all what not. If any of them is worth devoting my attention to, I will only do so to the extent that they are able to point me to Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ, Christianity is blank, bland, epileptic religion. It has no meaning and will never bring meaning to anyone who practices it. Thank God, I know Jesus! Beloved, endeavour to know Jesus, open your heart and listen to Him.

Codek,

I have had you on my prayer list since I joined SI almost a year ago now....I am glad for this thread to remind me to be more fervent in my prayers for you. I have a 26-y/o son who has said almost identical things to what you are saying with just slightly different language. There is NOTHING a mother wants more than the salvation of her children, but I have been helpless to help my son in all my reasonings and quotings of Scripture to him. I am only saying this to let you know that to some level I hear and understand your pain and frustration. While it MUST be an act of God in your life, you also MUST keep on seeking.....I will be more in prayer for you.....

Codek,
I was reading Ray Comfort's book entitled "God has a wonderful plan for your life: The myth of the modern message", when I came across a passage that made me think about you. My heart was again very burdened for you... oh, how my heart aches for you!

"Christ was sent to heal the brokenhearted, to give peace to those that were troubled and humbled for sins, and to bring them to rest who were weary and heavy-laden, under the burden of guilt and corruption"

I want you to know that I am praying for you.

Listen to the words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life:
"I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich!) and the slander of those who say that they are Christians and are not, but are an assembly of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be TESTED, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who OVERCOMES will not be hurt by the second death."
(Revelation 2:8-11)

Greg (SI moderator),
Can we have a prayer call tonight for Codek? I really feel burdened for him. I don't know how to set that up (the call), so if anyone has the ability, they could set up a time and a number that we can call.

Sincerely in Christ,
Renoncer

codek,

I skimmed the replies, but didn't read them all so I apologize if this is redundant.
First of all, I will be praying for you.
Secondly, this is the theme that I keep getting out of your posts, here and else where:

to me. It's sad but really I don't care anymore. There is nothing more I can do. I've done all I can. If He wants to save me, He will. I'm sick and tired of reading the bible and getting nothing out of it. I listened to 8 hours of sermons while researching on the internet like crazy today. There is no hope. Jesus refuses to talk to me and He doesn't have to.

Now the next thing I will say, I say in love. Because I want to see you get through this. I say with the old puritan preachers...
You need to repent of your good deeds. Even of all your Bible reading. Why? Because it seems that you are doing all of this to prove that you are a real Christian and to get God's attention. It's won't work. GOD DOESN'T NEED YOU. He doesn't need your poverty or your evangelism or your obedience. Does He want it? Yes. Does he need it? NO!
Job 35:6-8 "6 If you sin, how does that affect him? If your sins are many, what does that do to him? 7 If you are righteous, what do you give to him, or what does he receive from your hand? 8 Your wickedness affects only a man like yourself, and your righteousness only the sons of men."
Romans 11:33-36 "33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."
1 Corinthians 4:7 "What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?"

The fact that you are at the end of yourself is very good. That's the only place you can be in. Because God can't use someone who thinks they can give something to God.

Since you seem to idolize Paul Washer, I will give you a few quotes from him just to make a point:
""All the religions of the world are saying, "Do this, do that and make yourself worthy before God. Make God your debtor. Live in such a way that God must save you because He owes you." That's what works is actually saying. And then there's a salvation by grace. It's a gift." - Paul Washer
"You think that when a preacher gets up and says, "Look, salvation is a gift! It's favor that's not merited!" That men would just jump at the chance to have such a thing. But they don't. You know why? Men are proud. "I don't need anything from anybody. I don't need anything from your God. I can do everything on my own." Sir you cannot breathe apart form the grace of God. And even the hardened atheist who clenches his fist and shakes it in the face of God cursing His name can only do so by the power of God. Everything is grace. Everything is God's unmerited favor." - Paul Washer

And I once heard him say that people would offer him these big ministries. Where he could preach and teach and do all kinds of spiritual things. Do you know what his answer was? "But then I won't have time to go fishing." You can glorify God while fishing just as much as you can reading your Bible. And if you disobey Him and go fishing or something instead of reading your Bible or praying, He still loves you the EXACT SAME AMOUNT if you are really His. Why? Because His love is UNCONDITIONAL. You can never be good enough. No good work you ever do will make Him love you more than He already loves you.
The fact that He seems distant could be that He is trying to get your attention, that He is disciplining you. Trying to show you that works don't mean anything and that you need to quit trusting in yourself.

Repent of ALL your good deeds and flee to Christ.

I'm praying for you.
In Christ,
Veronica

P.S. Why evangelize if God has already ordained/chosen who will be saved? Because God has also ordained that they be saved by hearing someone preach the gospel. Romans 10:13-14 "for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"
And secondly because Christ commanded it. Your sinning if you don't. I really don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp. You don't know who has been chosen! Therefore you are to preach the gospel to all the world LIKE YOU ARE COMMANDED TO. Sheesh.

Codek,

If you go to hell, its because of your unbelief. Don't allow the devil to cripple you with one of his deadly weapons which is doubting the power of God to save you through Jesus Christ! If you decide to believe what you wrote then the Bible will not be true!

God is pleased by a person who has faith (Heb. 11:6).

God will work miracles on behalf of a person who has faith (Matt. 9:22, Luke 18:42).

God limits or even refuses to work in a person’s life when that person’s faith is weakened by doubt or unbelief (Mark 6:5, James 1:7).

Need I go on....

kwamenat

First, you need to know that you are probably better off than the vast majority of people in the world (Many people in a third world country will love to have what you have). God has done a lot for you. you just fail to see it! + you are still alive!

You are looking for signs to validate that God loves you and is willing to save you instead of just believing or saying like the boy's father in Mark 9:24- Lord I believe but help my unbelief. You need to simply believe the word of God and leave the rest to God.

"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe." (John 4:48)

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29)

Codek, if you continued to believe and trust in God amidst your hardships you would have been truly blessed but now you are filled with doubt and unbelief. Not to late..You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.(Jeremiah 29:13)

I saw a different thread that you started about giving all of your money to the poor and now you are totally broke and no one is helping you. If God never talks to you then who told you to give all of your money away?

I see no need to answer the whole american dollar question you asked because God did not say that. If He did then i will believe!

My conversion story is simply this. I believed in Jesus Christ and I have not been the same since. I have peace through rough and good times. Even if the rest of my life goes downhill I will believe. I can do no other! He is all i have.

In Christ,
kwamenat

Codek,

I am willing to talk about my faith in Jesus with you if you would like to hear about it.

Travis

I grew up doing drugs with my family,

the person I was living with through me out of the house because I stole the last bit of his drugs, so I started walking down the mountain that we lived on and he offered me a ride, I refused saying "Jesus walked, so can I". I have been following him since then, That was about seven years ago.
I tried joining churches, but the Lord didn't want me in them. I was baptized in one of them though. I have been a pilgrim in this world. I know what it is to be thrown out of house and home for the sake of Jesus. The other day the police came to my door because many think that I am insane and dangerous so when I preach, the police are called. God always gives me the right words though, I have not been arrested yet. Through all this my heart is overflowing with joy and peace because Jesus says I am blessed!!! His love is wonderful.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the World!

Behold Him Codek.

He is Jesus.

He was slain and is risen again!

We are countered as sheep for the slaughter.

But he crowns us with life!

Hallelujah!

come Lord Jesus!

Couple questions:

What is your "conversion" story? How long ago did that take place? What do you understand the gospel to be? Is english your first language/do you have learning disabiities of any kind?

Regarding the first question, there need be no "experience" in the sense you have stated. Romans 10 here:

10:5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.” [fn1] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ [fn2] ” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ [fn3] ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” [fn4] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” [fn5] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” [fn6]

and lastly:

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

You are saved when you believe in the word of God with regards to the gospel. The bad news and then the good news. Your experience is simply to have someone preach the gospel or for you to read it and then to believe it, repenting of sin.

God does have to will to make you born again, and He has promised to do that in John 1:12-13. Whoever will receive Him (Jesus) God wills to give spiritual life to and indwell with His Holy Spirit.

The last question I ask is simply because you may have trouble understanding the king james version if you aren't english as first language (Calm down all y'all) or you may have a learning disability toward reading. You seem to listen to sermons alot and read online so I guess that there isn't really a problem there.

Finally, GOD DOES SPEAK TO YOU WHENEVER YOU OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND RECEIVE IT IN FAITH. Take small chunks, but in context, and meditate on them until God shows you the truth. You are approaching the Word with lack of faith it seems from the way you have written here. Read the gospels, especially John. I heard someone once say that it was deep enough for theologians to drown in and yet shallow enough for babes to wade in.

Lloyd

Codek, could you please give me your email address? You can send it to my email (savinggrace1611ATgmailDOTcom) if you don't wish to post it here. My pastor wants to talk with you about what you've been saying. Thank you very much.

Codek,

I also bought into false teaching and was going around trying to heal everyone about a year ago. God convicted me of my Sin that lead to my captivity. I played the harlot, I loved other things more than Him. God showed me that I sinned against Him. Then he showed me how my actions were actually scattering people from Him. I saw all the darkness of my sin I cried out to God to take all my sin away. Then I saw the Cross, and all my Sin was washed away.

God was faithful to keep me, to convict me, and to save me, even after I had played the Harlot. He can and is willing to do the same for you.

Codek,

If you don't understand the scriptures check out Luke 8, the parable of the sower as a place to "start over" Jesus says in verse 18 take heed how you hear. How are you hearing the word? With a heart that has been prepared to receive the word, or hardened like the ground by the roadside, where Satan snatches away the word before it can take root.

On another note, regarding trials and tribulations. I have not been through alot of persecution for His name's sake as some have, but I look at the example of Paul and Silas in the Philippian jail. They are being persecuted for doing exactly what God told them to go out and do. So, because they know they are in God's will and are suffereing for His name's sake and not because of sin in their lives, they rejoice and sing hymns. When the apostles were arrested and flogged for proclaiming Jesus in the beginning of Acts they rejoiced that they had been counted worthy to suffer for His names sake.
BUT MAKE SURE YOU AREN'T BLAMING GOD FOR TRIALS THAT YOU HAVE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN A LIFE OF SIN.
If you lost your job because of Jesus that's something to rejoice IN (not about), if you lost your job because you were checking out porn on the work computer then you are suffering for sin's sake and God is disciplining you.

Lloyd

Brother Codek, I understand you are upset but please you know this forum isn't the place for name calling or foul language, do it if you must but do it through private email respecting the rules brother Greg has placed here.

I will be sending you an email, because I really want to understand and I apologize for judging you to quickly without all the information.

My email is mguldner@hotmail.com expect and email from me.

Codek do you not see? GOD is and has been answering your prayers. You have come here and shared your burdens on more then one occasion and the body of CHRIST has been moved by the LORD to intercede for you. GOD has called HIS children to pray for you and you say HE does not answer you??? HIS love is being poured out upon you even now and you refuse to see it. Many have shared how GOD has spoken to them, laid a desire upon their hearts for you personally to know HIS love for you. GOD is moving but in your anger and bitterness you refuse to see. I am not saying this to attack you but to say plainly GOD has not abandon you. DO not let your focus on self or the enemy take away the out pouring of love GOD is demonstrating here for you through HIS children.

Will keep praying for you.Please know I am not trying to attack you or lessen what you are going through. My desire is to share with you the light of JESUS through the darkness you are now struggling with. There is much love for you here, don't let the enemy or self cause you to miss it...

GOD bless
maryjane

edited

Dear codek,

No man is predestinated to damnation. For it is written, that "everlasting fire prepared for the satan and his angels". (Mt 25,41)That means not for men! In God's plan noone is predestinated to hell, only the devil and his angels.

Only You have forgotten some truth of His Word, and now You are suffering from it.

Let me encourage You a bit: it is God's grace working in You, that You will not perish under delusion, but He wants You to search for the true life.
Would it be better if He let You be a famous praise band leader and yet You go to hell? Surely not! He loves You more, than let You be perished from lies.

Desertes are never comfortable, but listen:
Hos 2, 14 Therefore I am now going to allure her; I will lead her into the desert and speak tenderly to her.

Now I am over some of these deserts, when thought, this is the end of life, no God, no faith helps me.
And I am now here and I can proclaim, that He loves me, and the knowledge of His love in my heart is burning more than ever before. I have never before heard God's tender, gentle voice of love so strong like now!

I go a step further:I Kings 19: 11-12 tells the story, when Elijah wanted to trully know God's glory:
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

You will have earthquakes of Your life, windstorm, and burning fire in Your soul, if really want to know Him; want to know Him more, than others.
But be still: never forget, that God is never in the storm or in the fire; He comes after all these, if You are committed to wait for Him: by a gentle, tender whisper of love.

And what is necessary from You? Enough faith? No!
It is a false doctrine, that things only happen if You have enough(!) faith. Jesus never told us, that we have to have engough, large enough, much enough, etc. faith. Only to have faith. So have faith in Him, whether this faith is weak and broken. But still faith.

So hold on! You are not lost at all. You may need some essential change of lifestyle (work, health, finacial discipline, maybe brother Matthew can help You better in a longer e-mail conversation), but if You start it with pure heart, You will be succesfull in every ways of the Lord.

"They weren't concerned with doctrines of "predestination." They weren't worried about eschatology. They weren't even worried about any traditions (including theological ones). Instead, they focused on what was really important -- spending time with Jesus."

And most people that come to the LORD are just as ignorant.

It is absurd to think a body needs to understand the finer points of theology in order to connect with God. We serve a living person, not an ideology.

Excellent post, Chris. You said it well.

ginnyrose

by ginnyrose on 2011/9/8 2:33:15

"They weren't concerned with doctrines of "predestination." They weren't worried about eschatology. They weren't even worried about any traditions (including theological ones). Instead, they focused on what was really important -- spending time with Jesus."

And most people that come to the LORD are just as ignorant.

It is absurd to think a body needs to understand the finer points of theology in order to connect with God. We serve a living person, not an ideology.

Excellent post, Chris. You said it well.

ginnyrose

__________________

I just wanted to say another amen to this. This is a very good post.

God Bless
maryjane

codek,

As I read through your writings, you expressing your frustrations because God seems so far away after all you did to gain his approval... I thought of a few scriptures that might give you some insight.

2Thassalonians 3:6-

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,

8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you;

9 not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example.

10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.

12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.

13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Codek, this scripture contradicts WOF teachers, their lifestyle. If you choose to follow their teachings, you will experience some kind of consequences and you have found them to be devastating. If God would not love you, he would have allowed you to be comfortable there. As it is, He is permitting you to experience the end result of false teachings, forcing you to ask hard questions. This is not bad.

In conclusion, my mind goes to Habbakuk 3:17-18 NASB:

17 Though the fig tree should not blossom
And there be no fruit on the vines,
Though the yield of the olive should fail
And the fields produce no food,
Though the flock should be cut off from the fold
And there be no cattle in the stalls,

18 Yet I will exult in the LORD,
I will rejoice in the God of my salvation.

This scripture has ministered tome a lot...

(BTW: if you think you are alone in experiencing financial loss, you are not alone. We did, too. We farmed for several years and practically lost everything due to drought. This put us in a severe financial bind for many years and we had five children to support on top of that. My husband was forced into work that paid much less and we had to pay these bills, still. Bankruptcy was never an option for us...I,too, had to deal with anger and bitterness but this scripture in Habakkuk always came back to minister to me. God is still God regardless of circumstances. In my case I could guess God allowed this to happen to us to humble me.)

Job had a word for those that didn't under stand his situation & tried to minister unto him... ye are all physicians of no value. O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.
& In Ch 16
2I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all.
3Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest? 4I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.
5But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.

___This hymn also come to mind...

How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent Word!
What more can He say than to you He hath said,
You, who unto Jesus for refuge have fled?

In every condition, in sickness, in health;
In poverty’s vale, or abounding in wealth;
At home and abroad, on the land, on the sea,
As thy days may demand, shall thy strength ever be.

Fear not, I am with thee, O be not dismayed,
For I am thy God and will still give thee aid;
I’ll strengthen and help thee, and cause thee to stand
Upheld by My righteous, omnipotent hand.

When through the deep waters I call thee to go,
The rivers of woe shall not thee overflow;
For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,
And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.

When through fiery trials thy pathways shall lie,
My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply;
The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design
Thy dross to consume, and thy gold to refine.

Even down to old age all My people shall prove
My sovereign, eternal, unchangeable love;
And when hoary hairs shall their temples adorn,
Like lambs they shall still in My bosom be borne.

The soul that on Jesus has leaned for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to its foes;
That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,
I’ll never, no never, no never forsake.

_______

PS 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

If we are wrestling with this in the realm of human reasoning, we are probably doing what Job's counselors did. They sometimes accurately stated what God had revealed about Himself, but they always drew conclusions that were offensive to God, (Not saying that is happening here! much wisdom) and discouraging to Job. Clearly, God has said He has chosen, elected...clearly God has said that those who seek Him will find Him, whosoever will may come. To us, this seems a dichotomy, but in Him, there is no dichotomy, only integrity.
so the Bible's declaration of our election is not to be a source of discouragement, but wonder, and comfort. Unwrap your human reasoning from this for a moment, and comfort yourself with the goodness and mercy of God. Who is He, what is His nature? Who do you think is drawing you to Him? Does He will that any should perish? Will not God the judge of the earth do right?
God's sovereign will trumps all, our salvation is His to initiate and His to complete. This is a comfort. This is our hope. This is not a source of condemnation.
So why do we fear? I struggle with this too. My reasurance is found only in the nature of God. Put aside your salvation, and what you may be seeking, and camp on His nature, worship and adore His goodness. And He will be found.
I have never had a manifestation of His presence. Only a growing certainty of His goodness.

Hey, brothers, do not fear at all!
Let us see the Bible, what it sais about: there is no way to write too much, so I try to explain as simply I can.
Please read the whole chapters and all other verses, and You will find, I am right.

On one side, we read:
Róm 9:21-22 Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use?
But what if God, willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

BUT on other side, we find:
2Tim 2:21 So if someone cleanses himself of such behavior, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart, useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

SO what does it mean? I coult tell it, like:
In the kitchen we have 2 cupboards. On one, we have the cups for special purposes, and on the other, we have the cups for common purposes. You decide, on which cupboard You will take place (see 2. Tim) but it is God's election, which cup He wants to use, for what and in which time.

Second:
Jn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

That tells us everything about rebirth. The wind blows wherever it will. When He blows to some heart, it will born of the Spirit. That means not predestination, but this:
Only God can give us rebirth! He gives it, when He wants.
Salvation is not a gift, that only need to be recieved! God is active in this process, so He wants to give this gift to everyone, personally! So it is false, that he is passive, once He have left this gift here on earth through Jesus, and now everyone, who would like, can go and get it. No!
That is why we can tell: I have met with JEsus. For He has, personally given me His gift of rebirth.
So what to do? HE commands us to repent. Not to rebirth. He will do His job in me, to be able to get this gift. If a pastor tells You to tell a prayer, and You have got salvation, do not believe Him! For no man on earht has the right to give You salvation, or to guarantee, that on that moment God gives that to You.
Only evangelist can tell: Search for God! I show the way. When You have found Him, he will give You this gift. So be on the right place, near the wind, on the right cupboard. And if not now, but hours, days, or weeks later, He will find You. For He has promised:
Jak 4:8-9 Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and make your hearts pure, you double-minded.Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter into mourning and your joy into despair.

That's all:)

Hey again, I am so sorry too, did not mean to be preachy. Just have had similar stuff.

I thank God that He remains steadfast. I have felt that isolation, that silence. I do think, that as He lives outside of time, He can utilize that for His purpose to form a desperation for Him in us, which is His great kindness. I think I dont have a capacity within myself for that desire, I am so easily content with the "OKness" of life, the good enough, the simple comforts. Yet, He wants more for me, He wants me to have a heart after Him. He wants us to have so so much more, and the way to that is quite like despair sometimes.

http://tinyurl.com/HeWillCarryYou

HE WILL CARRY YOU
by Scott Wesley Brown

Their is no problem too big God cannot solve it
Their is no mountain too tall he cannot move it
Their is no storm too dark God cannot calm it
Their is no sorrow too deep he cannot sooth it

CHORUS:
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you

He said
Come unto me, all who are weary--y
And I will give you rest

Their is no problem too big God cannot solve it
Their is no mountain too tall he cannot move it
Their is no storm too dark God cannot calm it
Their is no sorrow too deep he cannot sooth it

CHORUS:
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you,

If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you,
he will carry you
he will carry you

Click here to hear the song:
http://tinyurl.com/HeWillCarryYou

http://tinyurl.com/BeStillSong

BE STILL
by Scott Wesley Brown
Performed by Angie Lewis

Verse 1
I want to hear you speak to me
The words I'm longing for.
'Cause sitting here in silence
Makes me cry.

I'm learning how to wait for you
And trust you with my life.
Your answers come so slowly, Lord,
Yet they always come on time.

Chorus
'Cause you hear me
Every breath I take.
You see me
Every move I make.
And you tell me to be still
And know that you are God.

Verse 2
Sometimes, my Lord, I wish that I
Could look into your eyes
Or feel you hold me in your arms
So tight.

'Cause I am weary running
For the answers that I seek
I need the comfort of your love
The stillness of your peace.

Repeat Chorus
'Cause you hear me
Every breath I take.
You see me
Every move I make.
And you tell me to be still
And know that you are God.

Click here to hear the song:
http://tinyurl.com/BeStillSong

Hi

Wow, you really misunderstood me on my last post Codek. But apology accepted from the subsequent post. I'm sorry if I am insensitive to your situation. I don't know your situation and can't know it unless I ask questions, and those questions have to be direct or we're wasting time here.

My point was that Paul and Silas trusted God and rejoiced in their suffering because they knew they were in His will so the suffering was for His name's sake and according to His will. But that we can also suffer because we are sinning, and plenty of people think they are suffering for God when its just God disciplining them as a loving Father. That's what I was trying to say.

The other thing I was trying to say was that Jesus Himself tells us that the parable of the sower is the key to understanding the other parables. How your heart is toward God's word will determine how it goes into your heart and produces fruit.

Given: some passages are difficult and must be considered for some time to get them, some must be weighed against other passages to get the context of the whole word. Some we may never get this side of eternity, but for the most part if we diligently seek Him in His word He will show Himself to us. Just keep up the reading and meditating (considering) of His word.

I'm sorry you are in the state you are in. If you are God's child through faith then, although you may feel lost and without understanding and don't know Him well, He knows you and is watching over you and keeping you through this time. God holds onto us more than we do Him.
Psalm 37:23
23 The steps of a man are established by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.
24 When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong,
Because the LORD is the One who holds his hand.

If you haven't trusted in Jesus as your Saviour and Lord then I pray you would do so. You say you fear God, that's good.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but fools despise wisdom and knowledge.
the name of the Lord is a strong tower, the righteous run into it and is safe. you run from the wrath of God's hatred of sin, but where can we go from His presence. the only place to run to is to Him, for forgiveness and cleansing. Run into the name of Jesus and be safe. You may have done this already, but I don't know.

Many people in other parts of the world have way less information about God than you show yourself to know here on this forum but are at peace because they have trusted in Him as far as they have read or heard about Him. Trust in the Lord that you have read about in the Word with all your heart Codek I pray!

Lloyd

hi, i respond as a calvinist for 47 years, this is a dumb question for the bible surely says that WHOSOEVER that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. are you a whosoever? who is not a whosoever and who knows?jimp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzR_LvCQ2CM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BeO-iCqxvI

Looking through this thread put tears in my eyes, but at the same time, it thrilled my heart. Saints, we are seeing the making of the next greatly used of God vessel of honor. It always happens this way. Many of the most greatly used of God men of God down through the centuries (like John Bunyan) have been those who dragged the deepest depths of despair in their quest for a relationship with God. In the process (as is happening in this thread) other saints get concerned, and send up intercession to God's throne, and then suddenly there is born a new vessel of honor used greatly in God's kingdom.

Psa 40:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
Psa 40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

LOOK OUT WORLD! HERE COMES CODEK!

Please be sure to inform us here on the forum when God brings about the completion of His work. Before any birth there is struggle and complication, but the end result is always a miracle!

I agree with Approved, though not his tone. Codek, think of the Israelites at the Red Sea, BEFORE they crossed over. What were they singing? Nothing! they were crying out to Moses saying "Weren't there enough graves in Egypt that you had to bring us out here to die" They only saw Pharoahs army coming one way and the impassable sea the other. And their faith and hope sank.

After God miraculously delivered them they stood on the far side jumping around, dancing and praising God. Two impossibilities were accomplished, Pharoahs army was crushed and the sea had opened before them to walk through.
Much to praise God for behid them and ahead.

But they should have been singing that song on the other side of the sea, when they were in that tight spot, knowing that if God had called them out of Egypt, surely He would care for them. And He will take care of you if you are His son, having called you out of this world into His kingdom.

Remember God wouldn't take them up by the Philistines in case they got scared and returned to Egypt. His plan and route were correct though it looked scary to the Israelites. And many more tests of their faith lay ahead of them, but the bible tells us sadly that they continually failed because the word of God wasn't mixed with faith (Heb 3). Had they moved ahead by faith the bible's account would have been one of a nation moving through the desert singing one long continous song and entering the promised land much sooner but not so, and not so in our lives too when we doubt God because of a fearful situation around us.

But God has a plan for His children which includes testing our faith to prove "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (1 Pet 1).

On a practical level to do with your work situation and what you posted in the cost you everything thread, what twayneb said in the first response to your initial post is wisdom I believe. Give away everything as a heart attitude and set your treasure in heaven. Then, through prayer and rightly dividing the word, give as you are led.

I pray that God will give you vision of His goodness and grace in the midst of this trial.

Lloyd

Jud 6:12 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
Jud 6:13 And Gideon said unto him, Oh my Lord, if the LORD be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where be all his miracles which our fathers told us of, saying, Did not the LORD bring us up from Egypt? but now the LORD hath forsaken us, and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites.
Jud 6:14 And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee?

Dear Codek,
It's true that all of these scriptures indicate that God is the one who saves. However I cant seem to find one example in the entire bible of someone crying out to God and not being saved. If you're in the wilderness dont be discouraged over two years because the children of Israel where there for fourty years. I have many friends that are in the same situation crying out to God but He has not answered. There sin is evident to everyone around them except themselves. Yet they wonder why God is silent. You might want to read 1st corinthians 10 and pray and meditate on those things found dealing with why the children of Israel died in the wilderness. Ask the Lord to search your heart. Isaiah 59:1 (NIV) Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short
to save, nor his ear too dull to hear.
Isaiah 59:2 (NIV) But your iniquities have separated you from
your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will
not hear.

Isaiah 59:1 Listen! The LORD is not too weak to save you,
and he is not becoming deaf. He can hear you when you call.
Isaiah 59:2 But there is a problem--your sins have cut you
off from God. Because of your sin, he has turned away and will not
listen anymore.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Your Brother,
Matt

do not let satan trick u into believing all the lies on the net. God put the cookies on the bottom shelf so that anyone can be saved. Jesus said I come NOT to condemn the world but that the world can be saved through Me.when you see a door and it says enter you go in and turn around and the sign says exit.Jesus is the door,and all you need to do is open your heart to Him and the spirit will birth you into the kingdom.it is all about Him and His grace and not about you and your performance.that is why it is called good news(gospel).

Love, serve, adore God because He is worthy, whether we go to Heaven or Hell at the end. You cannot do these things without being saved because THIS is the reason we are saved so that we can do these things.

Trust in God and He will do what glorifies Him this is all we can ask

Codek,

please just patiently and consistently continue reading your bible, believing what is written. That is God speaking to you. If you have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour then you have the Holy Spirit in you to enlighten those scriptures to you and to bring them to remembrance in certain situations. We need nothing more than this for a life of victory. 2 Peter 1:3 "as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue"

I am not implying that I am perfect or am even close, but this is the promise to you and me and all in Christ Jesus.

Lloyd

Not so much other passages to read, but a suggestion for reading the word.
Get a notebook and take notes on stuff that sticks out to you. Don't force anything, just what jumps out of the text. I've been journalling for a little while and some days I get something big, application for my life, other times its just the text and it doesn't seem to "speak" to me, but later, when i recall it in a particular situation it makes sense. Journalling helps you remember by using another method of learning (writing) and the bonus of going back when something comes up in your life and you can find that nugget of good application you got months ago.

I'm trying something I haven't done before which is to read OT in morning, NT in evening and a Psalm or Proverb somewhere in between. I'm a busy man with four kids so not everyday gets all those done, but it keeps balance in reading, so you don't get bogged down with some heavy OT passages.
Another trick is to go to blueletterbible.org and print out a chapter of the bible and take it with you through your day, that way, when you are in the line up at the till at the grocery store you can think about the word (and not what is on the cover of the National Enquirer!).

Lloyd

My I suggest buying the Bible on CD (35$s-89$s depending on where you shop) and playing it in the house, in your vehicle, or portable.

I play the same one over and over and then move on to another. Or have one in the vehicle and another in a player where-ever I'm at house, shop, or just outside doing something.
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."
One can get hours a day of being in God's Word.

Dearest Codek

I occasionally come to this website and happened to notice your cry out for help and it has haunted me for several days. Partly because I once was an Arminian and then became a Calvinist and though I believe in election I have wrestled with the issues you bring up in regards to evangelism. One thing that bothers me about Calvinism is that it causes some people to give up hope of being saved. In many ways you are blessed for you are not settling for some kind of intellectual decision type salvation, but are seeking true salvation by being born again and having the witness of the Holy Spirit as to your new birth. The advice to read your Bible over and over continuously in the time you have available is very good advice. Also to pray and cry out to God for mercy is very good advice. I want to recommend that you read a small book called "The Way of a Pilgrim and the Pilgrim Continues His Way". If this book and type of prayer appeals to you then give it a try. Focus on the prayer and avoid the conflict over whether this prayer is appropriate for Protestants. I can assure you it is based on the Bible and not man's reasoning. This is truly a wonderful way to come to know God intimately!!

I was saved when I was 57. Prior to this I had been praying and seeking God through false eastern religions for at least 4 hours early each morning for 8 years. When God finally began dealing with me He caused me to come into contact with this book in a very unusual way. It has been over 9 years since I was saved and I still practice this prayer every morning for many hours. I am blessed with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through His Spirit in me. He has opened up the scriptures to me and caused me to understand His grace in salvation.

I believe the prayer which this Pilgrim practiced would be very beneficial to you in attaining that which you desire. Do not despair. But be encouraged in that you have not settled for a false conversion with no evidence of the Holy Spirit. Continue to cry out to God and you will be truly saved.

May the Lamb that was slain receive the reward for His suffering!!

Terry

I occasionally come to this website and happened to notice your cry out for help and it has haunted me for several days. Partly because I once was an Arminian and then became a Calvinist and though I believe in election I have wrestled with the issues you bring up in regards to evangelism. One thing that bothers me about Calvinism is that it causes some people to give up hope of being saved. In many ways you are blessed for you are not settling for some kind of intellectual decision type salvation, but are seeking true salvation by being born again and having the witness of the Holy Spirit as to your new birth. The advice to read your Bible over and over continuously in the time you have available is very good advice. Also to pray and cry out to God for mercy is very good advice. I want to recommend that you read a small book called "The Way of a Pilgrim and the Pilgrim Continues His Way". If this book and type of prayer appeals to you then give it a try. Focus on the prayer and avoid the conflict over whether this prayer is appropriate for Protestants. I can assure you it is based on the Bible and not man's reasoning. This is truly a wonderful way to come to know God intimately!!

I was saved when I was 57. Prior to this I had been praying and seeking God through false eastern religions for at least 4 hours early each morning for 8 years. When God finally began dealing with me He caused me to come into contact with this book in a very unusual way. It has been over 9 years since I was saved and I still practice this prayer every morning for many hours. I am blessed with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through His Spirit in me. He has opened up the scriptures to me and caused me to understand His grace in salvation.

I believe the prayer which this Pilgrim practiced would be very beneficial to you in attaining that which you desire. Do not despair. But be encouraged in that you have not settled for a false conversion with no evidence of the Holy Spirit. Continue to cry out to God and you will be truly saved.

May the Lamb that was slain receive the reward for His suffering!!

Such incouraging words from a Brother in Christ! Thank you. I have also been haunted and have wrestled with this very issue. I'm still searching. To me it seems that all who hear the gospel or even hear the name of Jesus have the opportunity to be born again believers in Christ. Without Gods help it seems we wouldn't believe anyway. So if He has brought someone to believe in His Son, Jesus Christ then I would have to say He can and will save you.

Brother Codek,
Even Job had sin. For when he had an encounter with God he said "I abhor myself and repent with dust and ashes". If you are having a Job expierence and God is testing you, then He will eventually come in His own time, and that would make the whole point of this thread without point. Remember what I said about searching your heart, which David whom God said had a heart after his own cried to the Lord "search my heart and know me, try me and see if there be any wicked way in me." In a way grace in conditional because God gives grace to everyone...no, to the humble. And dear brother I know that if you would humble yourself before Him, He will lift you up. There is a lot of people that will tell you nice things and things that you want to hear about God, but the truth is that it always comes down to sin and more specifically the sin of self life. Ask yourself this one question, "am I seeking God in my way or on His terms and His timing?" "If my people would humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways, THEN I will hear them and heal their land." I say this only because I have been in the same expierence and not to condemn or cast doubt on the genuiness of your complaint. I know that what I am saying is extremely offensive and it should be, for the gospel is an offense to man. If I am wrong than atleast you can say that you went before God, asking Him if there is sin your life. If you dont than like so many brothers you remain in ignorance and in silence.
Love in the Lord,
Brother Matt

Just a comment on Job, yes, he like all of us had sin, but no, he was not experiencing what he was because of sin. It was God's sovereign choice to allow all that happened. And God Himself rebukes his counselors, some who conclude that it is sin that is causing Job's loss.
Then He reveals Himself to Job, taking Job from "My ears had heard of you" to "now my eyes have seen you."
In context, Job did not have the revelation of Gods word to rely on, and his vision of God was unique in that sense.
Job had more to do with revelation, not discipline.

And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

sometimes, things just dont add up the way we think.

All had sin and none could get rid of it until the Cross. Jesus did not have sin, He was born with God Seed, not created and chosen sin because Adam believed Satan instead of God. Adam could not have been born again unless it was in the Garden by the tree of Life, which God kicked him out lest he partake of the tree of life and live forever an eternal sinner.

None could be born again until the assention of Jesus Christ and come back in the incorruptable Seed of the Father being born again by the Spirit of Christ in us.

Only Jesus could be the One to fulfill the Law, no man can. In The fulfillment of the Law because He could keep the Law perfect because of the God Nature in Him, only He was able to destroy the works of the devil in us which was our nature by the choice of Adam, only He in us which takes the believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He and only He can set us free from the works of the Law which condemn us to death. WE are new creatures in Christ, the Law of Moses and the moral, is no longer our advisary, He has set us free, nailing the Law of Moses and the Moral Law to His cross setting us free to be under the new covenant in The Blood of Jesus Christ, The Law of liberty, the Law of Life in Christ Jesus and the Law of Love. These Laws we can accomplish because of He that is born again in us, Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Even Paul said the Mosiac Law and the Moral Law slew Him.
None can be set free unless it is by the Cross of Jesus Christ and He will set us free indeed.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Codek may I suggest a book that has improved my bible studying habits? Its called Living by the Book by I believe Howard Hendrickson. He goes of the basics and not just as an intellectual excerise but he also teaches the third step that I was missing completely and that is Application of the Word.

I use to run to commentaries and outside resources before but now I don't use many resources, also I invite you to Inspiration from Isaiah thread that has been started, its pretty simple we are all reading Isaiah together and then simply sharing what insight we pick up as we go. :) This may help sharpen you and help you grow because I know it and other threads similar to it have helped me grow greatly.

Codek my I suggest investing in a set of CD's of the entire Bible. That way you can listen at every opportunity whether at home on the road or using a portable when out on foot.
You may want to start with the New Testament.

Hi Codek,

Please here me on this. You don't need to read the whole bible in order to be saved. Salvation comes when one repents of his sins, and believes the gospel message. Do you know the gospel? It's not difficult to understand or long to hear. Paul told the Corinthians the gospel message in a few lines of chapter 15. If you think you have to do anything else besides believe than you have been sold a bill of goods worth nothing. No works!, Even reading the bible won't save you. Faith is all that is required. Don't misunderstand what has been written here. If you are saved then you will GROW in your faith and walk with the Lord as you read the bible and believe it and obey it, but if you aren't saved then you can read the bible till you are 90 and it won't do anything for you. Believe the gospel (which is found throughout the bible ), then read the word and obey faithfully. A berean was a jew who had some knowledge of the scriptures and when Paul preached the gospel to them they searched the scriptures to see if it were so, because they didn't want to take a man's word for it alone, but to see if the scriptures backed up what he said.

Do you repent of your sins and do you know the gospel message and do you believe it? That's where you need to start. If so, then read the whole bible. You must come in by the Door (Jesus) first and be saved, then you are a sheep that grows under His care.

Praying and hoping for you,

Lloyd

Codek, is that your real name?

What do you think you must do to be saved?

Salvation is not up to us. It is God who will make you a son of God, It takes a Father to give life to a son, and a son must be born to have a Father. We cannot birth ourselves.

This is not rocket science, if it were my rocket would fizzle.

John 3:15-18 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do what? "whosoever believeth in Him".

1 John 5:10-13 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Do what? "believe on the Name of the Son of God"

Quit, stop, rest, there is nothing you can do to be saved but believe and God will do the rest. It is when we try to help God that we get in the most trouble. When you eat to much you cannot keep eating. Wait upon Him until you are hungry again and He will fill you with Himself. I believe you are already saved but you don't want to give up your old life and turn it all over to Him, boy is that the hardest thing we have to do.

God loves you, I love you because He loves you and has birthed His Son in you and me.

In Christ: Phillip

Dear Codek, my heart goes out to you in your anguish. For many years I experienced similar struggles. I finally realized that my feelings were liars-God's promises were true regardless of how I felt. His Word promises us salvation when we repent of our sins and believe on the atoning work of Jesus Christ.
I have begun to loath terms like "Calvinism" or "Arminianism"-man tries to create a detailed picture of things which God only gives us glimpses of in His Word regarding His infinite ways. The result is man-made confusion, lame excuses to sin wilfully etc.etc. However, regarding our salvation, and how to live as believers the Scriptures are very clear; these are the things which ought to be our first concern.
Many years after I first became a believer I realized that those terrible times of doubt were direct attacks of the enemy to destroy both my faith and my life. Today I continue to experience most vicious attacks, but now I recognise their source and cling to the Lord by faith when my feelings fail. John Bunyon, who wrote Pilgrim's Progress tells of similar experiences in his own life in the book, Grace Extended To The Chiefest Of Sinners.
Codek,I long to see you at rest in your faith and will be glad to try to answer any questions you have for me.

beekpr

The last post really got me thinking. Many years ago, actually about 40, I was young, newly married, and seeking God. (note, why was I seeking God? He put that in my heart..but I digress.)
I had a problem, and no one I knew had an answer for it. I wanted to believe in God, but I had unsettled "intellectual" barriers. (I was not all that intellectual, actually.) So began a study of Schaeffer, and Lewis, and all the apologist of that day, and it did seem to make some sense, finally. BUT, I hit this wall. My dilemma, the gospel message that I had heard, simply, when I was a senior in High school, and my heart had sprung up and said "I want that!" was still far from me for some reason.
One evening, I spent some time with an old friend, talking, exploring what my problem was, when she stopped suddenly, and looked at me. She said, "you Know, it just occurred to me, I have just recently heard of something called spiritual oppression. I dont know much about it, but could I pray for you." I said, sure.
There are moments in our lives that are seared on our memories.
this one has remained with me.
I was in the living room, kneeling, and Patty prayed, quietly, briefly.
It is odd, the room seemed darkly lit before the prayer, and somehow was light afterwards. No emotion. no begging, just opened my eyes, and He has been with me ever since.
He was with me before. I was just blind. He had come that night when I first heard the gospel, but this night, the oppression lifted.
Now, this was not maturity, this was deliverance.
Codek, I dont know, God has not told me, but I pray, if this is similar, that He simply, quietly, lifts the oppression from you, in Jesus's holy name.

hi, i have been a calvinist since 1965 when i learned about the differences at NOBTS under clark pinnock a professor there. but i see a truth that belies both sides that if you are walking into a place the sign says enter and if you are walking out the same door says exit.should we argue for years about which is true? can a traffic signal be red and green at the same time?they are always red and green at the same time,but it depends on which way you are approaching it.everything in the future is whosoever will may come and in the past it is predestined from the foundations of the earth and today is your day of choice.that is why faith is NOW the substance...does your name fall under WHOSOEVER ?than call now upon the name of the Lord and be saved.jimp

One poster asks this question:

"In all sincerity (I am humbly asking), how is one regenerated or converted?"

Please go to the following link to watch Part 1 of the excellent 14 part series called "How God Converts the Human Soul" by Mark Kielar.

http://lighttheworldministry.org/?p=602

The ministry has produced many excellent Biblical teaching series' on a number of different subjects.

The name of the ministry is crosstv and can be found at the following link.

http://www.crosstv.com

nothing secret or code about the Philippian jailer's conversion:

"Sirs, What must I do to be saved?"
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.."

"And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house."

The word of the Lord being the bad news of sin and the good news of Who Jesus is what He did.

God made it simple for simple people like me, if it was complicated i wouldn't be saved, I'd be lost.

by codek on 2011/9/14 21:22:37

Not that simple buddy.

_________________

Codek you mentioned in a few posts back that you are "not" yet saved so I do not expect that you would see or understand yet that it is truly that easy. Just to let you know I have listen many times to Paul Washers teachings even the one you mentioned and I still know it to be that simple. Truth is that many who come along today make it much more complicated then it is. Yes we are called to repent, yes we are called to live in submission and obedience unto the LORD, and yes we are told to take up our cross and follow JESUS. These are all things HE asks of us but HE does not expect us to do so alone, HE gives us all that we need to do these things. If you mean that its not that easy as in how the modern day church teaches the gospel then I can agree with you on that. There is something required of us, a death, and there are many who are not willing to go there...

Codek you also wrote:"I know there has to be good people in prosperity church that believe Jesus died for their sins but they don't know anything about being regenerated or what is true repentance."

_____
The real reason you see so many around you who have happily excepted the water down, feel good teaching of salvation is because they want to. Many don't want to die to self, they don't want to live their lives daily in submission to the LORD, and they don't want HIM to be LORD of their lives. There are many who want GOD, but they want HIM only on their terms...they are lost because they would rather stay deceived then truly come to the LORD and die to self.
Even in my own family their are those who profess their love for the LORD but when it comes down to it, they want things their way and they reject HIS way...

I am still praying for you. I pray you will come to know the LORD, that you will repent of your sins, take up your cross, and daily live unto HIM as HE calls you to no matter what. There is work that needs to be done in each of our lives as we walk and grow in HIM. I am learning no matter what HE asks of me HE is so very worth it, just to be with HIM, it is all that matters.

I pray one day very soon you will be saved.

God bless
maryjane

It's easy to believe, but believe means more than mental assent to truth. We need to respond. Then it becomes faith.

John 5:38  And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

What is missing? - Faith or/and the Holy Spirit

James 1:22  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

What is missing? - Faith to respond, living faith

In Hebrews it's about the roots of faith, which is a faith like Abraham had. He didn't just believe and forget about it, he responded.

See, even the Holy Spirit comes only after some act of response or obedience.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him

What is usually termed as repentance. What is more than mental assent also, or feeling sorry about sin. It's all that and also linked to obedience that will follow.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

shows the sequence, we should start with 'repent' - and how can anyone repent without being convicted of anything?

I didn't repent before I basically came to the end of myself, only that humbled me enough to seek God. Can a proud person repent?

It appears you are right Codek, its not that simple, for you. You are making it difficult, not God. Salvation is a free gift. Gifts are not difficult to receive, they are meant to bless, not be a burden.

Sanctification is a process of burning away the dross in your life and that is more difficult.

Becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ is very costly, it will cost you your life. So one is a gift - eternal salvation, the other costs us something.

But Jim Elliot said it best at age 22 - He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. The dividends of discipleship are worth it. God rewards us openly who live out our faith in secret.

There is probably differing views on this I'm guessing, but salvation is clearly a free gift, no cost. Sanctification and discipleship are not, and cost you your life.

Lloyd

Codex-

Well I actually went through the 14 pages of posts here. I am waiting for some food to finish cooking and had the time.

It certainly seems you have a fair share of "Jobs Comforters" and other folks who have all the answers for someone elses life throwing in their 2 cents.
A couple of folks might be better served to take their own advice as opposed to shoving it out to someone else-IMHO. ;-)
I also saw a few very judicious and well thought out posts.

Codex, your "problem" is a simple one that many people deal with that are seeking after God. You aren't unique or alone in how you feel. There are a couple of things that I can see from your posts that would be helpful to you in my opinion.

However, let me begin here , cut through the clutter and slice to the very heart of the matter-

Codex-EXACTLY WHY do you think or feel you are "unsaved". I read your other posts but try to reduce those thoughts to a one sentence line, or lines if there is more than one reason.

Trust me, this is the road out of the turmoil going on in your mind and heart.

Blessings and I look forward to your thoughts.

Solomon101

hi code,study covenant...Jesus cut a covenant as very God and very man,for God and man.i am tired ofpeople not realizing that we are under a new a better covenant.study jonathan and david and mephibosheth. if anyone could perform to the expected level of salvation requirements we would not need a redeemer.jimp

Hey Codex-

I don't want to put words in your mouth or influence your responses. Therefor the following is true AS I UNDERSTAND your responses. Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood.

You doubt you are saved because-

1. The lifestyle you see other people living that profess to be Christians does not match what you read the scripture saying it should be. (That is the gist in 8 of your 10 paragraphs as I read it).

2. You are unable to sense God speaking to you.

It is because of these two things that you doubt God will come through for you or that Christianity may even be legit. That means from your input the two reasons you are struggling so boil down to-

1.The lifestyle you see other people living that profess to be Christians does not match what you read the scripture saying it should be.
2. You are unable to sense God speaking to you.

I don't see anything else in your responses. I am sure you could give more examples..and you have given several already. However, they all are a direct result of one of the two sentences I boiled your answers down to.

Do you agree with me on that or do I miss part of your feelings on this?

Blessings,

Solomon101

ps- believe it or not you really are in a good place at this point. I know it does not seem like it... but one day it will.

Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of the world will grow strangly dim
In the light of His glory and grace.

You are doubting God because of your circumstances. Its very simple Codek. When Peter took his eyes off Jesus he sank, but he cried out to Jesus and He reached out His hand and pulled him up. We get our eyes off the Lord and into trouble and cry out to Him and He lifts us up. But He does it on His time. To everything [there is] a season, A time for every purpose under heaven: God has a purpose for you in this season of life and its for your good if you trust in Him.

But I don't know that He will help you through me or anyone else here on this thread because you are hard hearted. You've come here to vent, not to receive counsel it appears.

Its apparent to others here but not yourself. The pain you are going through is real I don't doubt and I'm sorry you are going through it, but until you humble yourself and accept from God's hand even this, then how can anyone help you.

Lloyd

Practical before God:

James 4:6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Practical in getting a job:

You said you cannot find a job for 2 years. Ok, so why not work on commission basis? That's the path of least resistance to get the foot in the door of a company. They don't look so much for people that want a fix salary right now, but they never say no to getting more business, where you will get paid only after they get paid. So it costs them nothing up front to work with you. If you can talk with people you qualify. I did this myself for many years in a business to business setting, got product samples from distributors and got on the phone with retailers, or walked right into their store and started chatting.
Works best if you deal with free product samples or free trial service offers, so they can test it without commitment and only if it works for them they are convinced about the product or service and they will order. So you don't really have to sell anything, you just ask them to try something for free. The product or service must work as promised, that's the thing you must find out before you invest your time in it., so the chance that they will order is high or at least above average, and so you will get paid. Many still say no to free trials, but some will say yes, persistance works.

Have a look in your local papers or craigslist under keywords like freelance sales, or commission base sales reps. - if not walk right into a wholesaler or distributor and tell them you don't want a job, you want to increase their turnover. Same as above, some will turn you down, others will say "ok, we'll give it a try", persistance works.

The thieves next to Jesus on the cross had no time to evangelize, no time to deliver people from hell, no time to go about doing the work of the Lord.

Jesus wants you to receive His love. Maybe you are next to Him partaking in His sufferings and feeling the separation from God. Hear His voice. "Today you will be with me.." He is building a home for you with Him. He loves you. Trust Him. He knows the plans He has for you. Plans to prosper you and give you a future and a hope.
One believed, one didn't. Jesus wants to love you and be loved by you. We love Him because He first loved us. This is the work of God that you believe in Him who was sent.
Just love Him. Jesus loves you. God is love and He is the image of the invisible God. He did not come to condemn the world but to save it. When we are faithless He remains faithful.

Love Him. Lift up your hands and just say, "here I am, it's me - and this person lifting you up doesnt even feel like the words are of any sincerity or truth or validity - but I just want to praise You. Help me to receive Your love, help me to rest in Your love, help me to know Your love Jesus." Let the lifting of your hands be as the evening sacrifice. Give the sacrifice of praise. It is a sacrifice. And sometimes the hardest to give especially when emotions, our own condemning heart, screams from the world, terrors without and within would want to constrain us from giving a sacrifice of praise.

I needed to say that for myself too. Thank you for being honest.
I've had a really hard week and have grown dull. Thank you because I want to take the advice for myself the Lord gave me for you lest I too fall away.

His mercies are new every morning, may you wake up with a love song for Him.

Hey Codek-

I had written, "believe it or not you really are in a good place at this point. I know it does not seem like it... but one day it will.

You asked, "Can you elaborate on that phrase, thanks".

Yeah....I can. However, don't get sidetracked from the actual questions and answers we are working on. Just simply take it as an encouragement. I have been where you are. I read your frustrations..and understand them well. Just suffice it to say that ultimate betrayal by a few of those who were the very closest to me, those who I believed were called along side me at that time, led to the destruction of a movement of God that was affecting an entire geographic area. I spent basically the next 10 years in the wilderness unsure if I ever heard God at all..except twice. Yeah...I understand taking a risk, putting it on the line, and then feeling like God hung you out to dry. Like He set you up to take a fall...just because He could. I understand it well. Therefore I can truly say that 12 years down the road I see more of what happened than I could at the time. Just take it as an encouragement from a guy who has been there and leave it at that. Stay focused on whether the following is true---

The two reasons you are struggling so boil down to-

1.The lifestyle you see other people living that profess to be Christians does not match what you read the scripture saying it should be.
2. You are unable to sense God speaking to you.

If you agree with those two reasons then we can move on. However, it is important to make certain in your heart and mind that's all there is. If there is another reason then share SPECIFICALLY what it is. If it does boil down to those two then we will go a step farther.

Hang in there. No "Christianese" cliches from me. I know from experience how they just grate your emotions and soul at this time.

Blessings,

Solomon101

true and like that, Jeremiah, uh I mean codex. reminds me a lot of Lamentations.

I just have to also say (write) that this honesty has done soooo much for me!!!
I have been soooooooooooooo super discouraged lately - same stuff but around different situations- the body blesses me because by codex being honest and real, I prayed and got answers. maybe it didn't help codex but it helped me so much!! Here's what i've been reminded of:

- noah only saw 8 people get on that boat
- many prophets just saw God's judgement and people walking away from the Lord - but they faithfully preached even though in their lifetime they didn't see much change at all
- i am so thankful for the people in the bible that had enough faith to belive God and write the stuff down anyway nomatter what it looked like in the current situation and even throughout their life. they didn't get to know if anything they ever said was of any effect until after they died !
- the thief who believed what Jesus said on the cross saw a pretty defeated looking bloodied and beat up person promising him that he would be in paradise - it sounds and probably looked rediculous! But he believed and that faith has encouraged me so much.

I am encouraged that things might not ever look good around me - but that my reward is not here but in heaven and that I might not see any answers here - (although in truth I HAVE seen God answer prayer dramatically) - or right now. But I remember that before Jesus I was suicidal, hateful, and suuuuuuuuuuuuchhhhhhhhh a mess in sooooo many ways. He has done so much for me and He promises that He will see His seed and He will prolong His days (Is. 53) He will complete the work in me, and perfect that which concerns me. All I can do is be real and honest (like codex) before him and have faith to believe that I really am right with God through Jesus. For me to be in the moment, where I am is where I am but with Him, sit at His feet and receive His love...

Thank you so much codex!!

Jób 13:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
Jób 13:25 Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?

Dear Codek,

As well I have been in same situation as You, feeling all these, but I have understood some things, that helped me to get throught depression and bitterness:

1. God is Love. It is the truth. I had to understand, that I am ill-disposed and suspicious against God. When I saw the world around me, illness, violence, death, sin, immediately I accused God for it. But it is a lie that can truss us up.
God is never against us. He is never like men,- all of us had bad experienc with men- so there is no reason to be suspicious, and search for His faults.
Even Your father can be cruel and highly protectionist. Even sometimes for our own father, we try our best, but as a protectionist, nothing is good enough for him to love us! That is not God. That is man, brother!

The truth is that sin, death, illness was never His will. It is our will, and Satan's will. So the aim of Your anger should not bee God, but rather Satan, who makes this mess, and that accuses God for it.
If these things around You, hurt Your heart, be sure, that God's heart is much more hurted by them! God feels pain because of these, and angry. Not angry with us, but with sin, that kills us, and causes a lot of suffering!
Only do not be foolish to believe in lies!

2. If You may see christianity not to be like Christ, You are definitely right. But -according to my experiences- You do not have problem wiht christianity, but only with Yourself. If You could be able to follow Christ, You would not be so bitter.
But, my friend, there is a way, that will kill Your bitterness: Do not see the others. They may be lost, but be the man, who is worthy to God, and be the one, who will show, what is christianity. God does not need megachurches, but praying men, and there are so few of them, who are willing to take responsibility and fight for God's will to be done on earth.

Ézs 50:2 Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver?

Do not wait for the others, and be lost with them. Do not waist Your precious time, but start immediately to pray and help God to pour mercy on the wounded hearts.

3. God does not want You to be lost with the others. As in my first comment, I have told to You, that You are lucky. For the fog broke up, and You do not think that You go to heaven, while going to hell. Christianity today is under great delusion. Some of them has a feeling, that he is cheating himself, and starts to think, but afraid of these thoughts, for they are covard. Christianity is not a brain washing, but reality. I encourage You to think. With clear mind, surely find it real.
We must have solid basement, not feelings, and well-learned thoughts of other man! It is better to restart construction, than to lose the building at the day of the judgement!(Mat 7)

4. Prayer works. Only have You just once in Your lifetime prayed like what the Bible tells:

Lk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Lk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I am sure, You have never heard of this. And never seen in the church around You. True christians, in other parts of the world, pray until they get, what they want! For they have faith, and trust in the Lord! It is not an option, that prayer will not reach the aim, (if it is God's will) only we are lazy to pray hours, days, until we reach the goal! They pray, because they trust God and not suspicious, that He will not work for us! They know, that He is perfect, loving father.

4. It is not true, that a new-born christian does not do any sin. It is written in Roma, that it is a fight between flesh and spirit. Before got saved, sin had never been a problem for us. We loved to do sin, only may have been sad because of its consequences. Now, as new-born, our spirit wants to do God's will, that is why we have this cruel fight in our heart. Learn about it.

That was a great response Kono, thank you!

Codek,

Just in case you are still checking this thread i just listened to a good sermon today that might help you. Its entitled What's Wrong With Jesus Anyway: He Offended Me. Check it out here: www.activeword.org/media.cfm

Lloyd

codek
amen, a lesson I'm sure you will never forget
andy

Amen, Codex, me too.

Just who is the Potter and who is the clay?

In Christ: Phillip

Hi codex I'm a new member so I've just read all your posts. I've pastored for a number of years and have meet several people like you.i would like to ask you a question ,I hope it doesn't offend you . so here goes ( are you running from a calling maybe) many time we seek God to our end and not His. Salvation is a beginning of a new walk that he leads us on and not a stroll in the park with Him. My email address is in my profile if you would like to answer privately

Hi Codek I read some of your threads and they are filled with questions & doubts. This is where you are & i believe you are still searching the truth and not happy at all with your past experiences and where you are now.

Im not better than you, even though intellectually speaking I never had any serious doubts after I was saved about God's goodness, character or even his existence. I had my share as a prodigal son runing away from God to live for my own peasures.

I dont know if you ever had saving faith or genuinly were born again in your past? May be the word of God was planted in your heart but did not ever bear fruit? The most important question is where you are now? Im sure you know your are not in Christ, otherwise you will not let doubt reign in your heart. In Hebrews it says, "without faith it is impossible to please God", you may say I dont have faith because its a gift from God and he has not granted it to me? Or I am not chosen from God before the foundation of the world to be saved in Jesus Christ? So since you cant figure out if you are predestined for salvation, it makes you desperate I guess.

You can go on and on with reasoning and not come to a conclusion. The truth is that by nature our hearts are deceitful and we are very smart to justify our sins. God is just and holy as he is love and merciful too. Outside Christ there is no safety for us but a just retribution for our sins.

My advice is don't put your trust in man-made theologies, and systems. God cannot be put in a box. The only thing that saves us is the Word of God not the opinions of men, even godly men.

1 Timothy 2:4 it says that God, "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth." It is clear from this bible verse that God desires the salvation of sinners.He made hell for fallen angels and not men, the Father sent his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

You may have read , heard the gosple alot of times but your remedy is only in the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for you. Will you believe by simple faith the sacrifice of the Lamp of God, Jesus Christ on the cross or continue in you unbelief?

There is the solution of your problem - the CROSS - Jesus died for you and rose again from the dead the third day and has been ascended at the right hand of the Father and very soon will come back for his Bride and to reign on this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Are you willing to come to the cross and believe Him from the heart? In Romans 10:9 says, "if we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved"

Are you willing my friend to bow on your knees today and pray from the heart to God to save your soul in Jesus Name or do you wanna continue in your own way and keep the heavy burden of sin over your shoulders?

My opinions are worthless but God's word is what matters. I hope and pray you will make the right decision from the heart to have full confidence in what Jesus has done for you on the cross and accept Him today not tomorow as your Lord & Savior.

Just remember Jesus Christ is an ever-flowing fountain of grace and He is willing to save a poor sinner who repents of his sin and comes to Him by faith.

Someone said that," divine mercy is an ocean that is ever full & ever flowing." There is boundless mercy from God if you repent and a fountain of grace to save you if you believe Jesus.

Shalom,
Redi

Edited

Dear Codek,

As I saw Your reply, I can tell You, it is important to do those things. However, our job is not to help the poor only, but to do the will of God. And it is another dimension.

You are a bit confused about christianity, for YOu have seen a religious group who called herself church. Do not worry, God will show YOu the best way of living practical christianity.
Noone is christian, who is not similar to Christ. You are absolutely right.

As I see, You are an unsettled must. In some month You will be a good wine. It is the Spirit's work in You.

If You do not mind, allow me an advice:
Do not forget, that God calld us not to do things for Him, but to be in the correct relationship with Him. Noone can serve to Him without a strong relationship with God. The more stronger the realtionship is, the more YOu know how to serve Him.

I have seen several times, that brothers helped to homeless guys, I did so. But I do not help to anyone except I speak to hm/her first (homeless).
But I have seen several times much more glorious sevice.

There is a lady in our church. She is gipsy, but faithful to God, since was saved.
Before she got saved, she made abortion, addicted to cigarettes, alcohol, had bad mouth. Now she is one of the most lovely members of our church. When first came to church, YOu could hardly find teeth in her mouth, but someone took her to her own dentist to make a denture.
It was really hard to find her a job, but finally the church found her one. With a low, but sure salary. She has been working there for almost 10 years now. As she earns very little, had to rent small flats in very bad state. Finaly, someone bought her a small flat. It is not finished yet, only structurally. We, the church will finish it.

The priority is important: the church, as the family of Christ is much more important, then comes the others.
Because if You help the homeless with a house, but could not change his way of living, You have thrown out money on windows. If YOu help to born-again people in their (real) needs, surely find the best place.

Keep in mind, that first is our relationship to God, and second is our relation to His family. And from the remaining energy and money, You can support all the others.

Codek,

Thanks for your honest reply. I am not better than you and there have been times when I have been backsliding and im not proud of it, especially recently when I was seperated my seperated spouse chose to divorce me for know biblical reasons. I was angry and bitter and went back to the world. But God in His mercy allowed my mom to have a second stroke and she survived it thx God and she is gradually getting better. This thing shook me up and brought me to my senses to repent of my sin and seek God with my heart till I find Him.

I have shown genuine love in my past for other people because the Holy Spirit produced that in me and even had to give money as young christian to a man who was not sincere because i wanted to share the word with Him. As I have loved genuinely people from my heart when walking close with God as christian, I have also been hypocrite and selfish, indiferent or unloving too when I had been backsliding.

You see its not about me but about Jesus Christ, if we believe Him and let his life live in us we will be in the light and love others because the Holy Spirit will give us a supernatural love but if a christian lives in the flesh, for the world and in sin he is can't love unconditionally because he is in darkness.

All I can say now is that God is cleansing my heart and sanctifying my heart by his Spirit and i'm being revived and finding again a new joy in Jesus.

Codek I know that there are many hypocrites in the church today but that does not justify you or give you any excuse before God. God's word and character does not change and if we dont believe God we make him a liar. He offers a full salvation in his Son, to you and me too. I chose to believe and I pray God to increase my little faith. Do you want to believe that's the question? You have a free choice to accept or not the gosple invitation that God offers to you thru his Son.

What others do is their responsibility before God, not yours. You and me will be held acount with our choises we make in life and if we believed and obeyed the gosple.

You are a smart person and know alot from the bible, we can go on day and night arguing about scripture but that does not avail anything if the will is stubborn. God alone can soften the heart but we can resist his grace if we continue in unbelief and rebellion.

I pray you seek God will with all your heart and if you search for Him diligently you will find Him and he will give you peace.

hi, i am old and have been saved for almost50 years. the bible says that whosoeer that will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. do not make it harder than God makes it. His yoke is EASY and His burden is LIGHT. peformance has nothing to do with it for if it did we would not have needed a redeemer to redeem us.jesus said that He came not to condemn the world but to save it. if you think i am going to send my son to cut a covenant for man that i would let man walk away from this provision as a mere human than how much more your heavenly father keep those who call upon His name. you must have problems with your dad or as a dad not to understand this.

Dear Codek,

You must listen to what we tell, if two of us told the same, before You have told us anything about Your father.

Remember?:"Even Your father can be cruel and highly protectionist. Even sometimes for our own father, we try our best, but as a protectionist, nothing is good enough for him to love us! That is not God. That is man, brother!"

I was born again when I was 18 years old and I never doubted my regeneration, it was a real experience to me. By burden rolled away and i felt light like a feather. after I had prayed on my knees and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I knew someone or "something" had come in my heart and it was the Holy Spirit.

I have doubted the assurance of my salvation when I have been backsliding but I have learned a great deal about God's unconditional love during those times when I was walking in my own ways. I have deserved hell so often in my life but God has been patient and merciful with me.

Codek, satan is the one who always discourages someone who seeks the truth and plants doubts in his mind to question the love of God. And the sad truth is that you had a father who abused your mom and that you reflect that unfortunately in your understanding of God's nature and character.

Its true there are too many hypocrital christians in the church today, we are living the last days and the love of many is growing cold and many also are deceived by doctrines of the devil and go to church to hear a preacher who will make them feel good and give them a false hope and assurance of their salvation when they are living to please their flesh, who love the ways of the world and bear no fruit of the Spirit or live a godly life.

I have had this problem myself since I was a young christian, its not easy to find a church where christians love each other and live honest lives for God. But these are the very last days before the second coming of Jesus and he predicted the apostasy of the last days. Most of the churches we see today are worldly and living in babylonian captivity. Many have made a shipwreck of their faith and have forgotten the mercies of God in their past.

Here in SI, im sure there are some honest christians who want to see you come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I am not even worthy to share the gosple with someone else, when i look back in my past I really made a mess of my life, to the point that I lost hope that God will restore me again and forgive my sins and even doubted whether God still loved me. But I have discovered that when I search for Him diligently from my heart, he may tarry but sonner or later will show me mercy and give me grace.

You find it very hard to believe but even when you cant there is still hope for you, you can pray God to give you the desire to look with your whole heart for Him and that he will enable you by the Holy Spirit to believe in his Son. God will not resist an honest man who is willing and puts his heart to come to the cross for forgiveness of his sins but will assist Him and draw him by his Spirit to Jesus Christ.

What else can I say but repeat to you the simple but yet profound gosple of Jesus Christ, may God grant you the saving knowledge of his Son.

Edited

Codek,

All I can see in your many posts is your feeling of being lost and rejected by YHVH.

There is much I would say, many questions I would answer, but feel that an open forum is not quite the place for this in your situation.

If you would like to, contact me at questor@earthlink.net, and we can begin to talk about your situation in depth.

I am only a believer with a Bible, but I have some experience with what you are going through and would glad to share your struggle, and help you if I can.

Q.

I understand your panic and the fear you feel, but I have the time, and I am willing to share it with you, regularly, daily, (or evenly), as our schedules allow.

You will not be lost if you are seeking YHVH so strongly...only by His call upon you would you even care about being saved. You sense of not reaching Adonai is because of the fear that the Adversary is shedding into your mind and heart.

Stop freaking out, and take a deep breath, and then contact me!

Q.

hi,the joy of the Lord is your strength... you have none because you have enjoyed the attention you get in your pity party so you remain weak and sad ,but with attention. the only enemy you have is yourself and you must not live just to draw attention to yourself. it is egomania at the highest level. a person must give their lives to Jesus to have eternal life and be Christ centered and not self centered...some people are going to go to eternal torment( with nonone to listen. do not choose to do this. nobody wants to be around a negative cry baby and that is what you have chosen to be. do not blame anyone else.you must choose to follow Jesus and His love,and joy will follow you all the days of your life.jimp and im done

several people now have explained to you that:

"the bible says that whosoeer that will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. do not make it harder than God makes it. His yoke is EASY and His burden is LIGHT. peformance has nothing to do with it for if it did we would not have needed a redeemer to redeem us."
(jimp's words)

Codek, salvation is easy, discipleship is not.

Elijah cried out, Lord, only I am left in all Israel (as righteous). God rebuked him gently saying, hey there are 7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

Jeremiah preached for 40? years and was dumped in a dungeon and treated rather poorly. He didn't shake his fist at God saying "How dare you treat one of your children this way."

Cornelius was told when sent to Paul "I will show him what things he must suffer for my name's sake" (Paraphrased).

So suffering isn't the issue, though you may see it as an issue. You compare yourself to Job. Codek, I lovingly tell you you are not like Job. He was righteous and was tested by God to prove to Satan that he would be righteous though not blessed. He passed that test. You (again in love I say this, and am not bitter in any way) "tore a strip" off me in an earlier post because of some things I said. You are not standing in a position of faith towards God despite trials as Job did, but are doubting God in your trial.

You say God doesn't speak to you. God speaks to you through the word primarily, go to His word for clarity. Be led by the Spirit, but expect to get things wrong sometimes. Even Paul wasn't sure about some things. They tried to go into Asia but the Spirit did not permit it. He had a vision and they CONCLUDED that they were to go into Macedonia. They didn't know for sure, but assumed that's what the Lord was indicating.

Psalm 34:7 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart. if you set the Lord, the One written of in the word, as your delight, then He will fill your heart with His desires. Your desires will be his. Not completely, you will still have to identify what is of your flesh and what is of His Spirit.
He is already doing this. Your desire for a right relationship with Him is His working in you. But have faith! Delight yourself in Him, though it has cost you everything. He has declared that it is to be so. Though I don't know, only God does, if it was the Lord's will that you give away all your possessions, here you are in the situation, what will you do with it. God will work with you in whatever situation you are if you will give yourself to Him again.

Lloyd

Codex, how many of us really know what it is to be born again? Jesus told Nicodemus, you must be born again, even to begin to understand the things of God. What does it mean, replyed Nicodemus? Jesus used the wind to give him an answer. Do you know where the wind is coming from? At that time the answer was, no. Do you know where it is going, no. We know where the wind is coming from and where it is going and can see the effects of it, because we now have a better understanding of meterology.

If God is our Father, what does it take to be a Father? It takes Seed, (sperma) of God for HIm to be a Father.

1 Peter 1:23, says we are born again of the incorruptable Seed of the Father which is Christ the Word. Paul was raised up from his mothers womb to bring this message direct from Jesus Christ Himself, in Paul, to fulfill the Word of God. This mystery by Pauls Gospel, "My Gospel", this mystery which is, ""Christ in you the hope of Glory"", which Paul speaks of in all his epistles, specifically, "In Christ", 146 times.

This is like the wind, or a woman being pregnant, some know immediatly they have new life in them, some it takes time until the life begins to move, some don't know until delivery.

Being born again of the incorruptable Seed of the Father is Pauls message. If you want to know what this new life means to those who have been born again, new creatures in Christ, new Life in us, then study Pauls epistles, especially Eph 1, which is highest of what God has to offer those who have been born again, chapter 3 is also in this catagory.

No matter what we do, we cannot make new life come to us, it takes the Life of the Father to give new life to present every man perfect in Christ JEsus. Col 1:26-27. This is our only labor. Even this labor is according to His labor, which works in us mightily. Col 1: 28. The harder we try the less we accomplish, the more we try to govern our life in accordance to what we think God wants the less is accomplished in our life for the Kingdom. We also must be very careful in all we do, thinking it is of God, because we have a liar and deceiver who wants to be our god, he only kills and destroys and us thinking we are doing what God wants, then comes joy of satan, he has gotten us to blame all our problems on God.

If Christ is born again in us, God will never take that away, Christ is in us and with us forever, our new life, if God would take away His Fatherhood, He would be an abortionist, God forbid.

We must enter His Rest, whom God says the wicked will never enter. But we that are His children by birth, have already entered that rest, most of us just don't believe it.

In Christ: Phillip

I've been read all the posts so far and i was just wondering too i've been seeking Jesus for 2 years maybe not as much as Codex for like 10 years or something but i've been seeking for 2 years and am a senior rite now in high school and it's pretty cool how ur korean-american Codex cuz i am too, not saying that your situation is cool but i can relate and it's an encouragment, Codex was discussing how he's been seeking for a decade but no help whatsoever and feels as if god isn't speaking to him, i'm just curious and please no judging but love and me too i'm not really convinced that i'm saved or born-again because i don't think that i believe in the gospel personally, but what i wanted to ask was why do people seek so hard and try different things yet they don't seem to come to that CRAZY PEACE that only comes from looking to Jesus and even trying to look to jesus for me nothing really happens and it's even harder because i have Satan whispering in my ear or myself telling myself about bringing condemnation...why do some people just get saved on the spot when they hear the gospel?

O and codex i hope this helps and i watched it but didn't really get any heart change but maybe when you watch it it'll help...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ-LZiF8NTc&feature=related

salvation experience is different for different people. Some have dramatic experiences and others, like myself, it wasn't particularly so. Some remember the day and events clearly, others can't peg down a specific day, or can't remember the events that well.

A few verses that have come to me for Codek, and you jezusppl is:

1Jo 4:9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We don't look for a demonstration of God's love except this: He sent His Son to die for us. Any other warming of the heart or other thing is insignificant compared to this. I don't say this to condemn you in anyway but to show you to look no further than this for your confirmation that God loves you!

Jhn 16:27 "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God

1Cr 8:3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

These verses show that when we put our faith in Him we come to know God.

Lloyd

yeah but when you're saved you know without a doubt because god gives you assurance

hey codek did you watch the vid? o yeah do you have a fb?

Please consider the following quote from the Scriptures (brace yourself, it isn't one of those nice feely passages!).

= = = =
Hebrews 6:1-6

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
= = = =

If there ever was a person who should go to Hell, it is myself. Born and raised in a Christian home, I became a backslider at the age of 12, to go my own way. --Forgot to mention, also became an Atheist-a real one. What is a real Atheist? Since this is a Christian site, perhaps you will understand what I say when I say that I was possessed with a spirit of unbelief.

I gave myself to it, so that I could go my own way.

Yet, because I was a backslider, I had an advantage that many others do not have: I started to realize that I really was missing something. You see, when you are saved you are a part of God's Universe: the world makes complete sense to you. He is your Father, and you can look up at the sky, and say, "That's a beautiful series of pastels, You are painting in the sky this evening, Father." You know Him, and that makes life truly worth living. In fact, if things go bad, (really bad) it only makes you look forward to one day leaving here, to be with Him--and then, amazingly, you find that you don't have to go to Him, He comes to you (Jn. 14:18). Anyway, to get back to what happened when I backslid.

I found that I couldn't come back.

Really, I prayed, and what have you, but couldn't make it back. What was wrong? I know that your situation is a little different from mine, because I actually have a text that logically locks me out (or, maybe it is similar, come to think of it--your pretext would be assuming you're not predestined . . .).

For me, the answer was in the text that says that the real backslider crucifies Christ afresh. (I know, some reading this will say, "You can't loose your salvation!!" --Forgive those of us who simply believe the Scriptures: read 2 Peter 2:21,22, and the implication of Rev. 3:5 --are you saying that Jesus was bluffing, in this passage? You don't know the Lord (excuse me, Don't understand Him - see Matt. 23:23 and meditate on it for a week or two . . . .))

So I had to "walk the aisle" again, and shame myself in public and RUN FOR MY LIFE! I mean that, I cut every bridge with the devil that I could think of. I let loose my girlfriend, you name it. I know, modern "churchianity" would seldom dares to tell you to be so radical. I'm just telling you what I went through.

--And the Lord was STILL way off, away up in Heaven!

What was going on????

It was not until receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit (another subject, altogether) that I started to realize that the assurance was there (Romans 8:12-16).

The Lord promises to give His Holy Spirit to all who will ask (Lk 11:13). I was so confounded in these issues (by contrary teachings) that I once felt the Spirit descend, and heard the wind, but resisted His coming. I had to be desperate enough to allow God to take control.

Now, I am NOT encouraging anyone to attend a particular type of church, etc. There is mess out there, in all of them (if not, when I attend, it arrives):)

No, the answer is deeper than that. I do believe that the Lord had a definite reason for standing back, while I sought Him. HE didn't want for me to even consider sliding back again (this thought comes to me, when hearing of those who go forward to be saved, after slipping back into sin, week-after-week-after week).

I have been walking with the Lord, past that return to Him for over 30 years now, and I have seen Him do things that, if I weren't there, I wouldn't believe it was possible. So, don't give up, my brother. He has something special for you--but it is probably on a road less traveled.

OK. You want to know what I mean, in plain English. If you have read any of my earlier posts, you may notice my bent towards Bible prophecy. It's not a bent. We are heading into the Tribulation. The church in the US is largely a Laodicean church: rich and prosperous, but short of spiritual substance. The Lord may be preparing you for what is ahead. This can only be done when you are truly desperate enough to totally, and absolutely, surrender to Him (Prov. 27:7).

Try secret (emphasis: secret -- Matt. 6:1-6) prayer and fasting. God is real. He will answer you (Jer. 29:13, 14). When He does, remember to walk humbly with your God (Micah 6:8).

Be blessed in Jesus.

my website: TheUPlook.com

So your telling us to be desperate, i just don't get it though if God says whosoever why in the world does it take SOOO long and very confusing walk to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? Could you mind telling me your testimony? Yes i found your words encouraging and reassuring! Thanks!

Yeah i know what true christianity is i've listened to those hell-fire preaching pastors and i know that it takes frekin heavy loads of sacrifice, and it ain't easy to enter into the kingdom of god, not saying it's done by works but saying that kind of like the rich man when Jesus told him to sell everything he had, but he left in sadness or whatever like anguish or something, and then later Jesus said that it was hard for rich people to enter into the kingdom of god! Yeah man, if you have anything that'll help me then please PLEASE encourage me with wise words and i'd be grateful...Jesus Bless!

im on yahoo messenger and are you on?

Codex, Do you believe in the Name of Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God? If you do what does scripture say? If you believe scripture, you must believe you are saved. If you are saved, where is Jesus Christ? Not seated at the right hand of the Father, which He is, not in this place, not walking beside you, and all the other worldly sayings when you are a born again son of the Father. Christ is in you. The Son of God Jesus Christ is in you. The Father sent the Holy Spirit at the request of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is in you also, Even the Father whom the Son has brought with Him and now make their abode with you.

In Christ: praying you receive the revelation of the Christ that is in you, as Paul states by his revelation, 146 times, in Christ.

In Christ: Phillip

codek,

I read parts of this thread a few days ago and it really disturbed me. I stopped coming to this site a while back but I check once in a while to see what is new. Anyhow, I was reading the Bible tonight and I feel the Lord would like me to share these verses with you...

Job 35:9-16

9 “ Because of the multitude of oppressions they cry out;
They cry out for help because of the arm of the mighty.

10 But no one says, ‘Where is God my Maker,
Who gives songs in the night,

11 Who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth,
And makes us wiser than the birds of heaven?’

12 There they cry out, but He does not answer,
Because of the pride of evil men.

13 Surely God will not listen to empty talk,
Nor will the Almighty regard it.

14 Although you say you do not see Him,
Yet justice is before Him, and you must wait for Him.

15 And now, because He has not punished in His anger,
Nor taken much notice of folly,

16 Therefore Job opens his mouth in vain;
He multiplies words without knowledge.”

- I hope His words are a blessing to you and that you realize that the enemy delights in the things you have said on this thread. You are either for Him or against Him...do not lay the blame on Him like Job did.

Blessings.

Dawn