Anyone who can tell me of their experience of their struggle with the Holy Spirit being silent

I went though the same thing a few years ago. The secret to bring Him back is fasting and prayer and seek the Lord with all your heart you will find Him. Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face continually. Worship Him in Spirit by praying and singing in tounges. Pray in the Spirit and pray with your mind.

Try dry fasting, I believe its more effective. Start with 2 days of only liquid, and then break the fast. Then 2 days dry (no liquid or water) break fast. 3 days dry fast and then break fast. 4 days dry fast. During the fast pray, read your bible, mediate on His goodness and crying to Him. I gurantee you the Holy Spirit will come to you like a flood. This always works for me. I even have dreams and visions. God bless you my friend.

Brother I was in the same stage as you once and felt like I lost my calling totally and God has lost interest in me. Then when I cried and prayed and asked him to show me a verse to know that I am still in his elect. He showed me John 14:1. Where Jesus says there is room for me in his kingdom. I felt like he was talking directly to me.

The fact that you are still crying after every unrighteous act (as I did) tells me that you still have the spirit of God in you that is showing you that it is grieved by this act of yours. One day I suddenly understood how weak my flesh is and understood the true meaning of being poor in spirit. I heard about poor in spirit so many times but I understood them only after hitting the rock bottom. Once i understood that I am poor in spirit and my flesh is weak I kept obeying every single thing that the Holy Spirit told me because I know that I am weak. THE REASON WE FAIL IN BIG THINGS IS BECAUSE WE IGNORE THE VOICE OF SPIRIT IN SMALL THINGS, LIKE WHAT KIND OF PROGRAMS WE WATCH. When we do as we wish and corrupt our heart with these legal but spiritually unbeneficial things we also fail in big things that are actually Sin like adultery. So please pray that God will break your flesh though these tough times.

When we sin we are getting cold for the voice of Spirit and the more we sin we are getting colder and colder which also freezes us hard like ice. THe more we move away from him the less we hear him.

Other believers please do not answer this thread by just quoting Bible verses and thinking that you are encouraging him. Even if you tell just 1 verse just tell how it helped you (with a personal testimony) rather than copy pasting 100s of verses.

Hi brother

This has happened to me a number of times. I will get deeper with God and then will come times that I feel Him slipping away over months and even years. During this time I am in full knowledge that I can feel God slipping away even though I pray and fast. Eventually I will be very discouraged. After a long time God will suddenly manifest Himself to me again and I will feel his presence but more importantly I experience great victory over sin.

I have come to a few conclusions regarding these experiences.

1. Many people are experiencing Christian life in this same way but are pretending that they never feel this way because it would be too hard on their pride to admit their sinfulness. Thank God that he has given you grace to be honest. Deceitfulness is the scourge of the church today.

2. God is showing us our sinfulness by this and how we can do nothing on our own. In the day we live in if people do not feel many, many times that they are falling short of the mark they are deluding themselves.

Having said this, I would just like to say that if you continue to cry after God even though you are discouraged at times; YOU WILL FIND HIM. Even if you have less and less power over sin keep crying out for deliverance. HE WILL SAVE YOU.

3. God has shown me that my biggest struggle is with unbelief. I naturally feel that I can figure out God's way on my own. I find God when I accept that God comes in His own time, not mine.

4. The most important thing I have learned is that when I am going through these times it is for my growth NOT my destruction. God loves me so much that he will prune the sin from my life because this is necessary for my salvation. Going through this experience makes you feel like a miserable sinner. THIS IS THE TRUTH. In many areas we will always fall short of the glory of God. But I know that there never yet was a person who kept trying to find God honestly, even though failing because of sin, and was lost in the end.

On a different note, Are you in a church that preaches only from the bible and not traditions of men? Do the leaders preach repentance, first of all for themselves? You must have fellowship with believers who hold only to the word of God.

I hope this helps and if it doesn't it may not be for you at this time.

Praying that you will hold on,
Andrew

you say wow God wants us back and he does forgive us, but why this tormented struggle of the soul, why can't we come back and rest in the Lord again. I want the lord i don't want to be who i am and who i have been.

Then forgive yourself and move on. I know its easier said than done, but I have been in a pit somewhat like yours. I finally came to a point where i knew God had forgiven me, but I still hated myself for being so evil, no less evil than I am now i assume, but I just let go. I let go of it all, who I was or who I was going to be and said ok God you love me I know and have forgiven me I know so I won't hold on to this sin that you have already put behind you. At that point I was brought, note not by me, God brought me out of the pit I was in because I let go and He was all that was left. I'm not telling you to do this or that. Pray certain number or hours, not that thats bad, but ust forgive. That's what God wants, forgiveness, love, but do these things to yourself. How are you to see God's goodness if your blinded by hatred of self? He loves you so love yourself, in a godly way.

In my experience sin will keep you in the pit your in. Further more I had a dream I believe was from God. In it a friend told me something like that sin blocks the Word of God. Not the word of the bible, but The Word. So try to start anew knowing God has forgiven you, you don't have to go back. Hope is before you, will you choose to open your eyes and look back? I'm not saying its easy, but you don't need easy, you need possible and it is.

I pray this will help, but know there is a way out. The devil just wants us to give up, thats the only way he can win. Psalms 51 is my prayer when I'm blind and i know it was because of sin. Let me know if you would like to talk or anything like that.

In Love,
Joe

*edited

Bible4life:

I would have to agree and disagree with Krispy. First if all I think he is right in one very important respect, that being the need to go to the word of God for the answer to the struggle. While other's experience can be helpful, they are after all other's experience.

It seemed there was a great struggle with your own sense of righteousness and a whole lot of condemnation. You have not, unless I have missed it, mentioned that you had turned from God or were entertaining sin, but rather that you have been struggling and feeling more and more estranged and wicked. I know at times we go through times when we feel one way or another but our feelings are fickle, fallen, corrupt, and are not usually any indication of the truth of the matter. They are also easily manipulated by the enemy. When we are focused on our feelings we are focused on the flesh or in other words we are walking after the flesh and not after the spirit. What does the Word of God say about you as a born again believer?

Rom 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 4:4-9 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Rom 14:17-18 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (18) For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2Co 5:17-21 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Php 3:7-9 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. (8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, (9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

And on and on we can go. The point being that you have been made righteous by the blood of the Lamb of God. You did not do anything but repent and receive Christ to earn this righteousness and you are not going to arbitrarily lose it. (I am not talking about whether one can lose salvation at some point. That is not my point.) You are righteous whether you feel like it or not.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit is another thing. I gather that you are southern baptist. Names have long ceased to mean much to me but I am aware that there might be some doctrinal differences but I think this important enough to say anyway. There is a communion with God through the Holy Spirit through salvation and a seal until the day of redemption Eph. 4:30, and there is, I believe, a subsequent baptism in the Holy Spirit made plain in scripture. See Acts 2, Acts 19:1-6. The reason I mention this is that this subsequent baptism has been a source of invaluable strength, empowerment, and grace to me for the last 22 years. It is a source of inestimable joy and abiding Presence and peace.

However God desires to commune with you and to speak to you. I feel from your description that it sounds as if you are experiencing a time of great attack of the enemy. War with the word and with the Holy Spirit.

I have to disagree with Krispy in that the nature of the thorn Paul bore is plainly stated by Paul himself so that the opinion of theologians is not needed in my opinion. Paul says, "2Co 12:7-8 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." Messenger is the Greek for angel. Paul plainly states it was a demon or demonic messenger who battled and buffeted him. He besought the Lord three times saying make it leave but God did not do this. Instead He allowed Paul to walk in His grace and have victory over this thing.
So lean in on God's grace. Accept His righteousness. Stand strong in the Word. God will give you victory over this enemy. His Grace is sufficient for you.

Endzone, What kind, or kinds, of music do you hear?

The sex stuff you felt may have been simply from your sex hormones, starting in adolescence. They are very powerful, and designed by God to lead us to a mate, and to make sex enjoyable.

One of the problems today (besides the mass media using sex to sell things, including songs and movies) is marriage was suppose to occur shortly after puberty.

In the 1800's, youth were reaching puberty between 15 to 18 years of age, and they usually married between 16 and 20. And most were good faithful marriages, marrying your childhood sweetheart with no previous experience. An unmarried female at age 23 was considered an old maid.

Today, our youth are reaching puberty as early as 11 and 12, and they are not expected to marry until they graduate college or serve in the army. Yet they are subject to an enormous amount of sex via the Mass Media, constantly stirring their hormones.

The sexual revolution occurred in the late 1960's when you were a mere young preteen. I'm guessing you turned 13 around 1970. 1966-67 was the turning point.

Telling someone to go 4 days without water or liquids is very dangerous. I should know, cuz i did it once. That is not good advice. When i went that long without food and water/liquids i slightly damaged my heart, experienced muscle breakdown and ketones (seeing red spots is a sign of ketones in the blood), and a very dangerous all-encompassing headache that descended even into my neck. I also became quite sick when i broke the fast. I was not raised in a Christian home and i dont know if i was a Christian at the time but i didn't know anything much about spiritual matters so i either was not or else just had very little understanding.
To conduct such a fast without the direction of the Holy Ghost, which he already says he doesnt think he has with him, is not good. Such a fast should only be done under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Also, telling him/her to pray in tongues doesnt really make sense when he said his problem is that the Spirit is not with him to begin with (or so he feels), so how could he speak in tongues?

Endzone and bible4life: Don't forget about Samson. The Holy Spirit left him too due to disobedience, but eventually came back. This should give some hope. And remember, Samson had been disobedient in more ways than one, before the final disobedience which drove God away. He had been touching dead bodies, laying with a woman (pagan woman as well!), etc. He had been playing with fire for quite a while.

QUOTE: "Even if the Lord takes us through a lot of pain, He still loves us. Even if the Lord just flat out punishes us for our sin, He still loves us. He still is up to something good. So, don't give up. Something good will work out."--Endzone.

Very encouraging words, Endzone, thank you for all of us. Also, i really appreciate the honesty in all your posts and in bible4life's. Very refreshing. I would say a vast majority of Christians are experiencing the absence of the presence of God but just won't admit it because they would not appear spiritual otherwise.

bible4life, have you ever contacted anyone to conduct a deliverance on you then? Could the hatred you are feeling be rooted in bitterness by any chance, or does it just come out of nowhere and make no sense?

I think too many Christians give way to much credit to the devil.

Agreed Krispy, even brother Zac said that many times. As a Christian we need to be threat to Devil and not Devil a threat to us.
Every poster who talked about devil tormenting them if they think peacefully about every situation in which they slipped badly, there will be case of them trusting their strength rather than the power of holy spirit.

"I would say a vast majority of Christians are experiencing the absence of the presence of God but just won't admit it because they would not appear spiritual otherwise."

I don't agree with this. I don't care what vast majority of Christians go though. Even if 100% of Christians are struggling with sexual sin, I will still believe that it is not normal for a man to struggle and Jesus came to deliver us all.
Brothers please understand the difference, you need to encourage someone who is struggling with a particular sin by saying how God took you out of it. But the posters here encourage others saying I am going though the same so dont worry. And also saying majority of believers are struggling so let us also struggle.
Please come out of this attitude. If you cannot atleast do not advice others to think like you. God did not intend us to be a struggling person but to be an overcomer.
Why do you posters take old testament men as an example to explain that Sin is normal? We are in new testament, our example should be from it. God has set you much higher standard than what he has set for Samson. So dont even compare yourself with him.
I am not saying this projecting that I am perfect, no am not and am far from it. But I will never say that struggling with same sin is NORMAL. IT IS NOT AND IT IS A CHEAP CHRISTAINITY THAT MOST OF THE BELIEVERS HAVE LEARNT TO ACCEPT DUE TO THEIR CONTINUOUSLY DEFEATED LIFE.

Dont be discouraged Krispy. Sometimes I dont agree with your posts but I agree with everything you have said about Devil. The scenario of Paul speaking on thorn is not a devil distrubing him. There is no way a devil can even upset a man like Paul to whom Jesus gave all authority over devil (Jesus gave this authority over evil spirits to every desciple of his, LUke 11).
A thorn in flesh should be the physical flesh and hence a problem with his body like Stomach Pain. Which God did not remove just to keep Paul Humble. In old testament God saved people when they were put on fire (Daniel) but in new testament, God did not save his belivers most of the time from physical tortures (eg Stephen), because in this new life God has given us so much Grace even to take these tortures with Joy for his name.

well i have had bitterness and anger and a lack of acceptance in the spirit, my issue is i have tried repenting and confessing all of that but i end up going right back to those sins.

Brother that adds a little bit more to the equation. I struggled at one time with lack of acceptance. It can be quite debilitating. Keeps your focus on yourself all of the time. In my case I came to a place where I recognized that I was self centered and that I had held the opinions of man and the acceptance of man as an idol in my life. I repented of it and that began a process through which God set me free from that bondage. At times the enemy still tries to bring it back. I have to recognize it and resist it steadfast.

Bitterness and anger are an open door to all sorts of evil. Where envying and strife is there is confusion and every evil work. Beware lest a root of bitterness springing up in you trouble you and defile many. It has been my experience that people who harbor these things find it hard to hear from God and often experience great inroads of the enemy into their life. I once knew a man who left his wife and ran off with another woman. After he was restored I asked him if it was pornography or lust that motivated him. He said no. He had become offended at a brother and it eventually led to adultery. I would have bet dollars to doughnuts that it was the former, but it was not. Bitterness and anger are a huge open door. I personally think it is because they are rooted in unforgiveness. When we walk in unforgiveness we take ourselves out of the grace of God. If you are carrying these things you need to forgive and release these things. You must forgive, totally, completely, forever.

It is not easy to do. In fact, I would say it is impossible for you to do by yourself. You can recognize that you have been angry and bitter and you can confess anger and bitterness. You can even be sorry that you were angry and bitter but you can still hold onto the offense. You must let go of the offense. Only through the power of the Holy Spirit, not your own effort, and probably only through the ministry of other believers can you do this. But it must be done. The person(s) who offended you must be released from all expectation. You must forgive. I encourage you to find some mature men around you who can pray with you and minister to you as you forgive and let go of the anger and bitterness. You will need their help and support.

hi, as a younger man i was blessed to hear from God all the time. i was used in ministry in a great way and ministered with len ravenhill and many other men of that ilk.i got caught up in pride thinking about the worldwide ministry of jimp.instead of Jesus. all of the annointing left and it was years before i heard from God again. He will share His power and His love but Hwill not share His glory with man.

Quote: "well i have had bitterness and anger and a lack of acceptance in the spirit, my issue is i have tried repenting and confessing all of that but i end up going right back to those sins."

Bible3life: I think that is the whole crux of the matter. The Word says that if we hold onto unforgiveness and bitterness we will be handed over to the tormenter. When i look back on my life, i can see how bitterness in my teen years caused me to be negative towards everything and the negative stuff that left my mouth created an atmosphere no one wanted to be around. In addition, anger was always festering inside me. Jesus said that if we do not forgive others then God will not forgive us. I think twayneb hit it on the head there. So what is the solution? Well, first off, don't expect things to get better over night, the devil does not give up easily and since he has had success previously in getting you in bondage to hate, bitterness, and anger he is going to keep trying to keep you there or get you back in chains. In my experience, he keeps trying for years and years, bringing every wicked, nasty, unreasonable person available into a person's life to keep that root of bitterness from dying off. You just have to keep praying from your heart, "Lord, i dont know how to forgive this person, please help me to forgive. And please forgive me for my unforgiveness and cleanse me of it". An excellant sermon to help you out (which i always keep in my favorites list in case i will need it again for my own self) is "How Do I Forgive", by Dr. Jim Binney. Found at sermonaudio.com
The link is: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=821029331.

It is my guess that a spirit or root of bitterness is causing the hate you often feel. Bitterness is the equivalent of a wound which never heals, and can sometimes be open and festering. Recovering from bondage to bitterness is a very difficult and long process, and holding onto a grudge often feels like a soothing drug (which creates chemical pathways in the brain). The goal of a bitter person is often to create a fortress around self so he/she cannot be hurt again in the future by the behavior of the other. But the longterm effect is to lock one's own self in prison.
I can say this NOW, but i am by no means immune to bitterness. The way i figure it, the devil is always looking for an opportunity.

QUOTE: "all of the annointing left and it was years before i heard from God again. He will share His power and His love but He will not share His glory with man."

That is a great warning for all of us, and yet also gives hope that God might not remain silent forever. As it was with Samson, the Spirit returned.

Quote : "I wouldn't mind dying if I could take a few of the enemy with me. I would love to have seen that colesium fall down." Endzone

lol, i hear ya. I would have loved to see it fall too. Because they were worshiping their demon (dagon), aka false god. And i entirely agree with you, i would have wanted to die also, under the circumstances Samson was in. When i read about Samson I always feel sorry for him--he was human. And how frightening: he never knew that God had left him (until he was captured). But yet it seems that God doesnt dwell on that; Hebrews refers only to Samson as a man of faith and accomplishment, not dwelling on his sins. Even Samson was restored in his relationship with God.

The Lord will sometimes withdraw His tangible presence for a season to teach us valuable spiritual lessons that would otherwise be impossible to learn. The most valuable lesson taught during these times is faith. To teach us the principle of walking by faith and not by sight, He will often strip away many things we have been accustomed to hang on to: namely, His felt presence and voice. We "see" these things in the spiritual; they are the beacons of security and safety in the midst of storms. When we pray, we sense God near to us. We attune ourselves to the "still, small voice" that speaks so faithfully into our anxieties, and suddenly our confidence grows and all our worries are forgotten.

We have learnt over the years how to "stir" ourselves into the presence of God through meditation upon the Word, through prayer, through praising the Lord, corporate worship, heated and anointed preaching, et cetera. A spiritual "cause and effect" in many cases; and indeed, we are often exhorted and taught through the Word of God to do just this.

But sometimes - a season comes. A season where the brook dries up, where the food-bearing ravens fail to return, where all heaven seems shut above you like a brass coffer. Months go by without you experiencing one touch from God. The Bible is lifeless; soul-hot prayer an impossibility. What do you do? God has seemingly departed from you, and to make matters worse the "cause" methods to summon His Spirit no longer work as well! You are in a real quandary.

Sometimes these dry seasons are precipitated by a period of sin and backsliding - though not all the time. Sometimes, God in His infinite wisdom and goodness, simply deems it time to teach His beloved child the meaning of "sightless" faith and trust. During these seasons, I believe we get a miniscule glimpe of what Christ Himself dreaded as he went through the pre-mortum agony in Gethsamane. He didn't dread the physiological terror of going through death itself; no, far worse was the prospect of God forsaking Him! We know we are growing heathily in grace when we can truly say to our souls, "I'd rather die than to go on living in this sin without God." Didn't you think this very thing when God withdrew from you? When you were crushed and broken and helpless? This was how our Lord felt, and what caused Him to groan in the garden. The forsaking of God. We share in a certain solidarity with Christ as we go through these times; though His was infinitely blacker and deeper and, unlike ours, totally undeserved.

Dear saints, it is during these times where prayers for brokeness are answered! When we are young and immature in the faith, we often pray for God to break us. We pray these prayers when we are strong and vibrant and God is near. But when God answers the prayer for brokeness, it usually comes through a falling into sin or failing and backsliding...and then a period of dreadful dryness. The Lord withdraws His Spirit from our senses and all we are left with is a hope in His grace. It is during these dark moments where we learn of the power of blood of Jesus Christ, of the bitter truth of Romans 7:18, and how glorious His utterance of "It is Finished" is. May God give us an ever-deepening revelation and light upon the significance of that utterance!

Some practical advice for going through these seasons is to never doubt God's love for you - no matter what you've done, how deeply you've fallen, or how many times you've fallen. Always, always have faith in God's love for you and keep Romans 8:28 ever so close to your heart. Also, do not try to rehabilitate yourself, as this will only cause a temporary false reprieve before you find yourself plunging into even greater depths. Let go, like Jonah, and just sink. Trust Psalm 27:14 in the pitch-darkness of the whale's belly.

My prayer is that this post will help someone. I've just gone though a very long period myself, so I can commiserate with everyone experiencing God's seasons of withdrawl. It can drive you to the brink of despair if you are not well-grounded in the fundamentals of God's grace, God's love and the power of the blood of Jesus Christ (i.e. I John 1:7;9). Try to regard these times as mega-chambers of growth for your walk. When you come out of them, you will be a much more mature saint than you were before entering.

Sustained wholly by the grace of God,

Brother Paul

I read your reply to me, endzone. It was a little more info than I asked for. But I can help you and answer some questions by others about their relationship with the indwelling Holy Spitit..

To begin with, part of the definition of being a Christian is that every Christian has the indwelling Holy Spirit at all times. No Christian lacks the Holy Spirit. All Christians are SEALED by the Holy Spirit, as belonging to God.

Jn 14:25-28 [Jesus speaking:]
"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful."

For any reading this right now, answer this: Have you ever said that "Jesus is Lord"? If you really do mean it, then take a moment to say right now: "Jesus is Lord." That is, if you really do believe He is Lord.

Now, Here is a surefire test to know whether you do, or do not, have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you right now.

Now read this:

1 Co 12:3
"No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. NASU

SETTLED!

So know that the Holy Spirit dwells in you, in all who are Christians. What is the Holy Spirit doing in you?

Ro 8:26-30

In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. NASU

As for anyone with addictive sin, Let It Go! To be clear, I did not say, 'stop doing it', I said 'let it go'.

How?

Tell God you tried to stop, but you just can not stop, no matter how much you want to, no matter how hard you try, you can not stop. Tell Him how much you love Him, and place yourself at His mercy. Trust God by believing these versus from the Apostle John are true for you:

1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins AND to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. NASU

Just confess your sins to God, AND KNOW He will forgive your sins and He will cleanse you from all unrighteousness. And KNOW that as long as you live, you will sin. And as God forgives you of your sins, you should be equally willing to forgive all who sin against you.

1. The Law of Liberty: As you measure others, so God will use your measure to measure you. If you will not forgive others of their sins against you, then he will similarly not forgive yours. So forgive others of their sins, just as you would like to be forgiven your sins.

2. The Royal Law of Love: Love God with all your might, mind, and Power; and Your neighbor as you love yourself.

3. The Law of of the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN ChrisT Jesus:

Ro 8:1-8
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
NASU

The Power of sin is in the Law. Law focuses the mind on sin. It is well known that where we look is where we go. anyone who drives a bicycle or motorcycle, or even a car, that each of these type vehicles go where you look. This is why cops make people walk away from the highway when they pull someone over or assist them in accident, so they do not get hit by people who are looking at the cop action while turning their car towards them, often hitting the car parked on the side of the row.

And do not marry your addictive sins. They are not worth your attention. You already given them too much of your mind. Know God has forgiven you no matter how addictive they have been, you must forgive yourself and move on, GOD loves you, Know this, and move your mind on to better things:

Php 4:8-9
whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
NASU

dear bible4life,these sins do not disqualify you for anything except a happy life. be sure your sins will find you out is a reality but so is grace and mercy. grace and mercy takes care of the spiritual condition but the sins of the flesh have penalties in the flesh. if you would quit striving and learn to wallow in the finished work of Christ and all it provides because of His love for us.labor to enter into rest...take His yoke upon yourself and learn how easy He makes it... we needed a redeemer and God sent His son to die for us and purchased us with His blood. the wrath of the Father was poured out on Him,so we will not have any condemnation on us(judgement).you can not do anything to impress God or male yourself holy...He has done it for you...it is finished.

Brother Paul,

Appreciate you sharing these insights, and the things of the heart. What you wrote about the dry times being the answer to our former prayers for brokenness- makes a lot of sense. It's funny how dry times can be the answer 'to anything', but in God's economy, they can. I guess this is true, both in our personal lives, and as it applies to what's going on, on the world stage, these days.

I think as well during the barren times, sometimes all we see is the barrenness that seems to color our lives, but even at this stage, God can see a fruitfulness, and I think others can as well.

In Jesus,
John

Dear PaulWest,

What a blessing it was to read your post. I have a question about what we are to do during that time; you said God might withdraw His presence because of our sin and to not try to rehab ourself. Are you saying that if we have backslidden into some sin or have some besetting sin that we are NOT suppose to try to stop this sin? Just need to clarify for my own understanding.

ArtB: About the whole "Jesus is Lord" thing...

I used to think so. But i found out that Mormons can easily say "Jesus is Lord"; it's not foolproof. I've also tested people using the question, "Who do you say Jesus Christ is" and found that even a heretic was able to say He is God in the flesh.

Also, you have the verse wrong. It does not say "Jesus is Lord" it says "Jesus is THE Lord". see below...

1Cor.12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Maybe that is the mistake i made when i tried to test the Mormon. Cuz if you just say he is lord, well that could mean he is just one among many...

Quote by Trekker: "What a blessing it was to read your post. I have a question about what we are to do during that time; you said God might withdraw His presence because of our sin and to not try to rehab ourself. Are you saying that if we have backslidden into some sin or have some besetting sin that we are NOT suppose to try to stop this sin? Just need to clarify for my own understanding."

First, let me say that I am glad the post was a blessing to you. I prayed it would be for some people.

Regarding not attempting to "rehabilitate" yourself from a besetting sin, I meant that during these dark seasons we should not try to work up willpower to refrain from sinning. If we in our own efforts of rehabilitation succeed for a time, it will only be our continual burden to keep that particular sin at bay. This may well work for a time - sometimes quite a stretch of time - before, inevitably, our strength will give out and we will fall prey to it once again. And the tragic thing is that the more willpower we exerted at the onset, the deeper the depression we sink into when we at last realise it was all for nothing.

Instead, we should allow God to rehabilitate us. This means we stop trying to be good in our own power, because our trying to be good and fix ourselves only impedes the Holy Spirit's process of teaching us the futility of God's sanctification through human willpower. Anyone who struggles with internet pornography, for instance, knows the process. Willpower to rehabilitate ourselves from it and abstain may satisfy the conscience for a season, but the beast is ultimately being kept on a leash which we hold - not God. All it takes is a sudden incitement to awaken the beast and the leash is suddenly ripped from our hands and we see who was in control all along.

No man or woman who is truly converted and born again of God wants to defile themselves with impure images and thoughts. Nobody who loves God and who has tasted of His majesty and grace wants their conscience defiled and communion with Him compromised - even temporarily. But to people who are unconverted and dead in sin, this is their normal, fretless state (blissfully unaware of their separation from God) and they indulge in these vices with voracity and glee. If they want to finally "kick" a shameful habit (because of job security or saving a marriage, et cetera), there are rehabilitation programs for this purpose engineered by psychologists. But God's children have a different way out.

The Lord knows your frame, He remembers you are made of dust (Psalm 104:14). He is fully cognizant of our base weaknesses and inclination to yield to temptation on account of our adamic nature, and though He never condones sin in any shape or form, He is full of indescribable mercy and Fatherly wisdom for those who cry out to Him night and day for deliverance. He ultimately takes our sins and failings and turns them around for our good (Romans 8:28). If we will not attempt to rehabilitate ourselves, we will eventually see God's method of divine rehabilitation predicated upon replacement and overpowerment. The principle of light banishing darkness. If you wait upon the Lord in darkness, He will one day so flood your being with His loveliness and fragrance of light that the power of our base lusts will be be diluted and hold no more conquering allurement. Once He does this, he shows us how to stay right with Him and how to protect our minds, through "girding it up" (I Pet. 1:13); "renewing it" (Eph 4:23); and the thoughts we should occupy our minds with to keep it pure and undefiled (Phil: 4:8). All throughout this journey, His grace will sustain us, we need not even lift a finger, though we trust Him for our daily bread of continual empowerment to abide in Jesus Christ and the impartation of His divine nature by faith.

Yours sustained wholly by God's grace,

Brother Paul

Thank you brother Paul. The Lord has answered your prayer, more then you'll ever know while on this earth.

It's amazing how the Holy Spirit works in His church. We are blessed beyong anything we can ever imagine.

John, sorry to hear about your back. I have two questions for you:

1. have you received continuing chiropractic care?

2. what is the Gospel to you; are you able to tell me the Gospel or way to salvation in just one sentence?

PaulWest: Thank you Brother Paul for clarifying for me on that question. I think i understand better now. : )

Quote by Krautfrau: "What bible4life is doing however, is speaking the words of Satan having believed them himself, which is not to be tolerated without rebuke on a Christain board."

Actually, it is not your place to rebuke anyone on this board. You cannot possibly presume to know what a person believes in his or her heart, especially one in an anonymous online forum such as this. The site moderators ask you before you post that you consider praying and ask the Lord if you have the right spirit to serve others in the body of Christ. Please also look at these scriptures: Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6.

Jesus-is-God, the same thing applies. Jesus Christ would not have posted in the spirit that you did. Sometimes - especially when we are vexed - it is rather best to remain silent and be counted wise than to flex our finger and hit "submit" and remove all doubt. I understand many of the points you were trying to make; my advice, dear friend, is this: Let whosoever will come and glean what good they can from this thread, and let God handle the reproofing, if reproofing is in order. For he alone knows the heart. There is a way to express ourselves that does not strip away the dignity of another human being. If we count oursevles mature enough to give spiritual advice in the name of God in a public forum such as this, we must also be able to discern our own spirits. Otherwise everything we are trying to say gets automatically cancelled out. May God bless you as you consider these things before responding.

Brother Paul

"Paul West, you don't Know the spirit or heart that went into my post. Neither do you know the tears that went with it. When you love people - I mean truly love them and have appealed to them In that love for years - you then find that all that comes to your mind is Scripture after Scripture from our New Testaments of the danger that person is in and that is what you read."

This maybe so, but neither do you know the heart of the poster whose salvation you publically judged as phony. As with Krautfrau, it is not your place to rebuke people in this forum, no matter what you feel you have discerned in the Lord. If you truly loved this person as you claim, you would preserve his or her dignity and save such a rebuke for private correspondence. This is a public forum, and people are encouraged to come and share their issues and failings without fear of rebukes and judgments upon their salvation as you have done. Issuing rebukes is also breach of forum etiquette and violation of SI guidelines. You are a guest here, please remember.

"After reading your last post on this previous page, I now understand why the atmosphere has been opened up to where now posters may literally use curse words here and boast of 30 yrs of sinful exploits - something that was Not permitted here in the past."

I think this is a pretty unfair accusation, as I put much prayer and scriptural contemplation into my posts and always endeavor to seek the heart of God and be an example here. I will let God defend my ministry and my posts, as He knows my heart. You are urged to usher no more rebukes to any other user of this forum. Thank you for complying.

Paul

Thank you, dear sister, for understanding and acknowledging that we have families and lives outside of these forum walls! We can't possibly catch every single thread, but we certainly try. I take my ministry here very seriously, as though it be charge from God (as it is). Speaking for myself, I am far from perfect, and as a result I don't expect others using this forum to be perfect. But one thing we can all work on (and must, if God is to lend our posts any measure of authority) is a careful understanding and gentleness on how to converse over this medium.

Dealing with each other in this forum is different than speaking to each other face-to-face. We are all at the mercy of this cold, expressionless keyboard font. Knowing this, we must pray for extra wisdom in gettting our ideas across without demeaning and humiliating others. I well understand the frustration that can entail being misunderstood, or even worse, thinking someone is toying with your sincerity as you heartfully attempt to minister into their situation. But we need to have self-restraint and always look to the Lord in prayerful meekness before seeking to reply in a venting fashion. We need to ask ourselves: "What if I judged the situation wrong, not fully knowing the heart of my reader? How will my words come off sounding? Will it provoke him or her to thirst for holiness and a greater desire to be more like Jesus, or will it just make them want to save face and challenge me?"

These are real principles we as moderators especially have to deal with. The deal with my post being misunderstood, for example. Anyone who knows me knows I do not in any way, shape or form condone sin, or encourage believers to continue in deliberate, premeditative sin. In fact, many people have left the forum over the years because of a correction I brought in regard to their sin. On the other hand, like the Apostle Paul in Romans 3:8, I too have been slanderously accused of teaching believers "to do evil so good may come", simply because people have not taken the time to read the post slowly and with discernment. To them, a graceful, compassionate approach to a child of God who is struggling with sin is heretical. These people get offended, and because their pet doctrines are challenged and their limited understanding of God's grace for the backslidden in Christ is exposed, they pick a sentence out from your post and go on the attack. But usually such people have issues to begin with, a bone to pick, and they've come into this forum with an agenda and are looking for a confrontation.

If you read Hudson Taylor, or Chambers or Watchman Nee or Octavius Winslow, you will basically hear them all say the same things I expressed in my previous post. But those with ears to hear and a heart to judge (and not an agenda to fulfill) can make the determination themselves. Test all spirits, hold onto what is good.

Brother Paul

Krautfrau, i'm sorry maybe i missed something but i do not see where he spoke "the words of satan" or how he is "casting doubt into the minds of the weak and babes". I consider myself among the weakest and he has not cast any doubts about God into my mind at all. I think he is struggling and desperate (chronic pain and suffering can do that to people). He sounds confused and bewildered. For many years i was every bit as confused as him and desperately asking anyone and everyone for help and advice, never getting a concrete answer or solution but always receiving condemnation and judgementalism freely. It is important to gather all facts before arriving at a conclusion.

Jesus-is_God/Krautfrau:

The rebuke may have been well intended and justified. However, it did come off as just a bit harsh in the way it was said, regardless of how you felt or meant it. Especially in reference to his salvation. The verse "speak the truth in love" comes to mind. It IS "loving" to speak the truth but HOW we express it can make all the difference in the world.
An exception would be in rebuking people who are arrogant and proud such as scorners and Pharisees (as Jesus rebuked them) or someone who *stubbornly* refuses to leave a certain sinful lifestyle though they know it is wrong.

Yes, sometimes God IS silent with a lot of us. Comforting words there, codek. When one is suffering a great deal he/she needs to be reassured of God's love in the midst of it quite often before he/she can praise God. Sometimes it is hard to believe God still loves us, that He might have had enough and left. Well how can you praise God if you cant feel His presence and think He has left? It is very difficult and sometimes impossible (to do so genuinely).

John, I notice you have not answered a lot of my questions. I am left with the impression that you are avoiding them(?). When that happens i am not inclined to pray for a person because i dont feel he is making real effort in arriving at a solution, etc. I asked if you had ever seen a chiropractor or received continuing care from one and i asked if you are able to give me the Gospel in one sentence. I asked these questions as a matter of fact gathering in order to better be able to figure out what is really going on, rather than jumping to conclusions without all facts.

Hi Codek,

There are ways you've expressed yourself that are not appropriate for this forum (When you used the 'pi…" word.) I believe that there is hope for you, friend. My advice is to come to God with a thankful heart. Read Psalm 78 about how God had provided for the people of Israel and he was looking for a response from them of thankfulness. Reading about what you've experienced in your childhood, you have experienced very difficult things. Yet it's important that you look at all the great mercies God is giving you in your life. Someone else wrote recently that if in this life we only have Salvation, provided by Christ for us on the cross, then we are rich beyond words. We don't deserve this salvation, but it is provided for us freely. "Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

In Christ's love,
John

Jesus-is-God: I understand your frustration and the points you have made. You do have some valid points.

Bible4life/John: You seem to have the Gospel down, for the most part. Except i notice there is nothing in there about repentance. Another way of stating the Gospel in one sentence is this: Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Now, i'm no expert on repentance and i got my own sins to fight so i dont want to go any further on that lest i sound self-righteous to you. Just stating the facts.

About your back: i have suffered from back pain issues for 18 years now and i can tell you that medical doctors are of little help with that and they know very little. They proudly look down on chiropractors but chiropractors have done me a load of good and kept me functioning. There have been times when i could not get out of bed and had to be taken to ER by ambulance. xrays show nothing, mri not much either. But an experienced chiropractor can palpitate the muscles and FEEL with his hands if a vertebrae is out of place because through experience and training his hands have knowledge that a regular medical doctor's don't. Not all chiropractors are good, some are downright terrible (i have been to at least a dozen and you have to shop around, go by word of mouth) I have one that handles sports injuries and he knows his stuff. I always have ribs popping out of place, my tibia twisted in the joint, my hips torque and rotate unnaturally, my atlas and neck off kilter, my shoulder out of joint, etc. When a chiropractor adjusts me i feel immediate relief and can function again, so no one can tell me that chiropractors are just quacks. Plus they cost a whole lot less than a regular medical doctor (a.k.a pill pusher). Have there been times when i thought maybe my problem was demonic? Sure. Maybe a spirit of infirmity, i thought. Whatever the case, it is no match for my chiropractor. So while you are working on trying to fight a possible demon i urge you to shop around and find a decent chiro. You might be surprised. Because we live in a fallen world and our bodies are frail, not everything bad results strictly from demons but from the curse of sin on the earth.
If you are desperate enough i think you will eventually consider trying chiropractic care, one visit. I advise looking for one certified in sports injuries. A chiropractor can be God's tool to help people in pain. Again, not all chiropractors use the same methods of spinal adjustment. Stick with the one that you feel best with and if one hurts you then start looking elsewhere.

John/bible4life, i understand what you are saying. Yes, that is the core of the matter in that you are listening to your feelings (and like you said, probably the devil's lies too). I have a close friend who does pretty much the same thing: he is sensible and fine when things are normal but when a crisis comes or he feels anxiety he only seems to listen to his feelings, rather than common sense, and he regrets it every time. So i am very familiar with how feelings and fears can take a person over and direct all their choices and actions. Not a good way to live or operate, my friend.

Again, the key is to sharpen your Sword (study and memorize specific scriptures related to these fears) and use it. Speak the verses OUT LOUD. Write them on yellow index cards and tape them around your house. When these attacks on your mind come it might also help to praise the Lord OUT LOUD, for it is written, The Lord dwells in the praises of His people. satan the Slanderer has been very successful in harassing the sheep. Harass him back with praise to the Lord! Don't let him pray upon your fears anymore. It can be an uphill trek but you are still growing and all of us grow at different paces, and we all begin at a different spot in the journey. Take heart.