Rodney Howard-Brown movement early 1990s

Did any of you sit under this ministry? I did receive the "joy" myself, and I know it was very real for me. He had to work with me a little bit though. I didn't just go right down. I think I understand now what the river of life is. There was pure joy just flowing up and down my body from head to toe. It didn't move fast, bur rather slowly. I didn't laugh like a lot of people do. I just layed there with such peace and joy. And, please understand, I'm not trying to be vulgar, but the joy was very similar to a sexual climax, but it just didn't end. And it was in total purity without any self-centeredness to it at all. It kept on going for a few minutes.

I'll tell you something. When we get to heaven, we aren't going to care who wronged us or whatever. The joy of it is going to be unbelievable.

Doesn't sound like "Joy UNSPEAKABLE and FULL of GLORY" and NOWHERE in Scripture is "The Joy of the Lord" explained in such a manner.

I'm sorry... I'm NOT impressed.

Yes, but I once owned a 1997 Buick Regal. NOWHERE in Scripture is transportation described in such a manner. Does that mean my 1997 Buick Regal was all just my imagination and didn't exist?

I'll tell you something. When we get to heaven, we aren't going to care who wronged us or whatever. The joy of it is going to be unbelievable.

I strongly encourage you listen to this prophetic word from a wonderful man of God. He is just sharing pure scripture.

Another Gospel by David Wilkerson
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=2

strongly encourage you listen to this prophetic word from a wonderful man of God. He is just sharing pure scripture.

Another Gospel by David Wilkerson
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=2

Thank you brother, the audio quality is really bad, so I didn't make it through the whole thing. But it wasn't on the subject of joy, but it was on the subject of false preachers in the church. I also have some problems with prosperity preachers. In fact I believe it is a false gospel. But, I'm guessing you also think Rodney Howard-Brown is a false minister? I think this is kind of like Christians and demonic spirits. If you have never had an experience with it, you tend to believe it isn't real or that those guys are just whacked out Christians.

Biblical JOY has NOTHING to do with "physical feeling"....

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I don't think any of us know exactly what is physical, emotional and spiritual. For instance if a believer is being oppressed by a demonic spirit of anger, and he explodes on somebody. Is that anger spiritual, emotional or physical?

But this experience I had, the source of it was a spirit of joy. To have the experience of joy flowing up and down your entire body is not a normal emotional or physical function. It was a spritual function. Do you think Satan and demonic spirits have the spirit of joy?

"Scripture" (God's perspective) vs "Experience" (Man's perspective)

"Scripture" (God's perspective) wins over "Experience" (Man's perspective) every time!!!

In this case, your interpretation of scripture is a loser. You're abusing scripture to justify something you don't believe in. In fact, those versus you quoted have no relevance to what we are even discussing.

Another thing about this experience. I went everyday for about a week. I noticed that my ability to resist sin and stay away from temptation was much stronger.

One day Rodney Howard-Brown asked, "Are you finding that your ability to resist sin and temptation is much easier now?"

I had to agree, it really was. Nobody was more familiar with sin and temptation than I was--if you know my history.

Would this be a strategy of Satan and his minions? Would Satan try to make our temptation to sin more bearable? Heck no he wouldn't. He wants us in bondage to sin as much as possible.

This is in plain language:

Reinhart Bonnke was clearly a prime mover in the Holy Laughter Movement. He passed "The Power" to Rodney Howard Browne, and we now know that Browne was, until that day, a drop out and academic reject from the Rhema Movement. Browne got his prima donna debut, and he became the "bar tender" of Satan in the drunken orgies of Holy Laughter, from which thousands of Charismatics have fled in fear and embarrassment. Have you?

Really a vicious and judgmental attack on another believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. But I've said it before, there are a lot of religious spirits hanging out on this board. I wish the moderators would delete your vicous and scathing attack. You could state your disbelief in this movement without the hatred.

I've got a verse for you chief. "Any man that hateth his brother is a murderer and we know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

You love to quote scripture. How did you like that one?

Hey chief, I never even said I got the "Holy Laughter". If you would bother to read my post you would see that isn't what I said at all. No sir, I never got the holy laughter. It didn't manifest in my life that way. In a lot of other folks, yes it did.

Now here is part of my testimony when I was sitting in the back of this same church about 3 years later in 1995. I hope you will understand that I'm not a "Holy Laughter" fanatic:

In 1995 I was sitting in the back of Calvary Cathedral International church in downtown Ft. Worth, and I prayed as earnestly as ever, "Lord I wish a tornado would come through here and destroy all this". I prayed that because I believed that the "laughter movement" from when Rodney Howard-Brown was there 3 years before had just gotten out of control. I don't question however that it was a very real movement of God and a blessing to the church. Also, the acoustics in that round building were horrible because of so much reverberation. Well, five years later that is what happened. A tornado touched down and stayed over the church for 2.5 minutes. The building was destroyed, but not a single person was hurt. The church was fully staffed at the time. They bought another church about 3 miles away that used to be Midtown Church of Christ.

HI Endzone,

You wrote this to brother Greg...........

"Thank you brother, the audio quality is really bad, so I didn't make it through the whole thing. But it wasn't on the subject of joy, but it was on the subject of false preachers in the church."

If the subjct was joy, then why did you entitle the thread "The Rodney Howard Brown movement?" Why not talk about joy instead of invoking the name of a man? You asked about the movement and Greg gave you a sermon by David Wilkerson that speaks to that and other movements. You may disagree with brother David , and of course that is fine.

I have no idea what the source of your joy was on that particular occasion brother, but it neither authenitcates it or invalidates it, only Scripture has the power to do that. As someone who lived through the Holy laughter movement, and saw it destroy a large pentecostal church I attended, I can only speak of my own experience. This church had been around for 20 years. It had started when a Baptist preacher got baptized in the Holy Spirit and was kicked out of the Baptist church. He started it in his basement and it grew to become one of the early mega-churches, there was about 5000 folks. Its total focus was soul winning. Every single week for years and years the church witnessed dramatic conversions which only strenghtened the church. It was a free church in the sense that if you had a word you could stand up and give it. If you had a tongue you could stand up and deliver it and they would wait upon the interpretation. It was also focussed on missionaries and sent many out, indeed they supported about 55 different missionary familes.

Shortly after Toronto happened, Rodney Howard Brown was invited. The " service," consisted of about an hour and a half of " testimony," from Mr Brown on what had happened at other churches, talking about manifestations of laughter and writhing on the floor and making animal noises like lions and so on. He talked about how most of the time preaching could not be carried out because it was interuppted by laughing. After that he said okay, who wants the fire? And the conclusion of the service was a long line of people having hands laid upon them with the shout of " fire." If they did not fall down a louder shout of " fire," came.

Some amongst the congregation were horrified, many were excited. The church became an insular place where folks came seeking an experience. The focus on reaching souls was lost, the emphasis shifted from missionary work to " experience." Now remember, this was a church that moved in the sign gifts of the Lord as noted in Scripture. Fast forward three years. The pastor, a small balding overweight man, had run off with the sercratary and a large amnount of money. The church lay in shambles. The people who could not stomoch what had been going on left one after the other. The church was left to its " desires." That church now exists under a different name with a few hundred members.

I did have an interesting multiple e-mail exchange with Mr Brown. I found him to be very pleasant. The reason that I had contacted him back in the 90s was because he was claiming that revival had broken out in Scotland. I come from Scotland and its a very small country, you can fit it into Kansas three times. I e-mailed him and asked him why he was telling people that revival had broken out in Scotland when that was blatanly not true. And so went our e-mails back and forward where we spoke of " laughter," and other such issues.

Just one final point endzone. There is counterfiet and the enemy does use it. There are many " pagan," movements who experience "ecstacy." But, I also believe that if God wanted to reach and touch a man, whether it was at a Rodney Howard Brown service, or Benny Hinn or any other man that I would consider to not be Biblical, I believe that He could, He is soveriegn. The way for me personally to tell if what someone has experienced is genuine is that when someone has a genuine experience with God, they magnify God, not any man. God is elevated, not the church, not the leader, not the movement. The work of the Holy Spirit is to magnify Jesus in the hearts of believers. They would never attribute their experience to a man or a movement, but to God alone, He would get all of the praise and all of the glory, but thats just my own way of discerning.............brother Frank

Some amongst the congregation were horrified, many were excited. The church became an insular place where folks came seeking an experience. The focus on reaching souls was lost, the emphasis shifted from missionary work to " experience." Now remember, this was a church that moved in the sign gifts of the Lord as noted in Scripture. Fast forward three years. The pastor, a small balding overweight man, had run off with the sercratary and a large amnount of money. The church lay in shambles. The people who could not stomoch what had been going on left one after the other. The church was left to its " desires." That church now exists under a different name with a few hundred members.

Brother Frank, thank you for your very civil and humble response. Reading your quote above, let me ask you something. How long did Rodney Howard-Brown stick around? Wasn't it just a couple of weeks or less? After he leaves, isn't it the church leadership that decides that want to make a doctrine out of this experience? And, you are right, it was just an experience--nothing more. It wasn't suppossed to be anything more. Was it Rodney Howard-Brown's fault that the pastor ran off with the church secretary and the money? Isn't Rodney Howard-Brown just a convenient excuse for this man's actions? If Rodney Howard-Brown was working in the power of the demonic as the other poster suggest, didn't the pastor of this Toronto church have the authority and ability to break the power of Satan and his demons?

See, basing a church movement on this experience of Rodney Howard-Brown's ministry is where the error comes in. This is exactly what happened at Calvary Cathedral International in Ft. Worth, TX. Rodney Howard-Brown stayed for weeks. I don't fault Brown for that, but I do believe it was the pastor of the church that made a demonination out of this short experience. The whole purpose of Brown's ministry was a taste of what is to come. It wasn't meant to be something that you make a church doctrine out of. This is why I prayed that day at the back of the church 3 years later, "Lord I wish a tornado would come thorugh here and destroy all this". I mean that was one of the reasons I prayed that. Maybe you can say my praying that prayer and the tornado coming 5 years later is just coincidence. That's fine. But I think you want to attribute the failing of the church leadership in that Toronto church to the Rodney Howard-Browne movement being Satantic. Maybe in that sense it was Rodney Howard-Brown's failure to warm church leadership not to make a whole new church movement out of something that was only suppossed to be an experience in the Lord. We all have experiences in the Lord you know--that one time the Lord spoke to us audibly, that one time the Lord showed us a vision, that one time the Lord did this amazing miraculous thing in your life--do you know what I mean?

So here is my one final point brother. This ministry was indeed of the Holy Spirit. At Calvary Cathedral International, when RHB yelled "fire", some people fell down and some didn't. If they didn't fall down, RHB might give it a second try or else he would go on. He sometimes put his hand on someone and sometimes he didn't. Most people got the laughter, and some people like myself got the wave of Holy Spirit water that seemed like a river flowing up and down of pure joy. I never saw anybody bark like dogs and carry on swarming around on the ground as you describe about the experienc in Toronto. BTW, I was a catcher guy at every meeting. Back then I was still very strong physically. I saw it all up close. In fact one time RHB rebuked me and said brother dont twist to the side when you catch people because I was dumping into other folks that were falling. He told me to just let people fall staright back, and he was right. Later he told me "very nicely done" after I caught one of the biggest guys there. This is something you don't see too much anymore either--catchers standing behind people.

DON'T ATTRIBUTE THIS MINISTRY TO THE WORK OF SATAN BECAUSE OF THE FAILURE OF YOUR CHURCH LEADERHSHIP. And if RHB sent you emails saying revival broke out in Scotland, that should have been your first clue--revival is a temporary thing--not a church doctrine. If RHB was encouraging church pastors to make a doctrine or a new movement out of this experience, I believe he was very wrong to do that, but I have no knowledge of that.

Thanks,
Endzone

PS just thinking of some of the stuff he said that was funny:

1. First church of the frigidaire
2. The story about the time he received 2 boxes of asparagus after teacing and preaching in a church in South africa all week.
3. Making fun of folks who were trying to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit by saying "Rhondo Shandi, tie my bow tie".

I actually met RHB and was in a church that had him come for a series of meetings back in the day.

I dont know where RHB is today, but I can safely say that what he was teaching back then was false doctrine through and through. At least back then he was a false teacher, and no, I disagree that what he was doing had anything to do with the Holy Spirit even though I was convinced back then that it did.

The reason I was there back in the day was because I was immature, ignorant of the Bible... and very deceived.

Like I said, I have no idea where or what RHB is doing or at these days. I truly hope he has repented of his former foolishness.

Reinhart Bonnke... dont get me started on this guy. He claims to have raised people from the dead... but apparently they wander off or something afterwards because he has never been able to produce one person who he raised from the dead. Pretty easy to get lost in those remote African locations... which is conveniently where these resurrections always seem to take place. It's never in Chicago or Kansas.

Sorry, you voiced your thoughts on the matter. These are mine, brother EndZone.

Krispy

HI Endzone,

The failure of the church leadership where I attended and the whole "Toronto blessing," is two different subjects. RHB came once, but it was never about him, it was about people who were bored with their " Christianity,' and were looking for an experience. I just used RHB as a good example of that movement. He only came to our church once. But the "Toronto blessing,' so called was a movement that was hitting just about every penetecostal church to one degree or another. Typically it was someone or a group of people going to Toronto and " bringing it back." This whole movement was what brother David Wilkerson was talking about in this and other sermons. I have a video of him on my website, weeping because of these so called manifestations. I also attended a home group for five years. I left for a year to go to Scotland to share the Gospel, and when I came back I was shocked at what had happened to the home-group. We used to start out with some worship, then Bible study, then prayer. When I came back, it had been taken over by the laughing thing. The meeting consisted of someone putting in a video of RHB or others, and then just basicly start laughing, only to me it sounded more like mocking. It was anything but spiritual brother. I did not go back, although I have remained friends with many in the group even till this day. The people who really pushed this in the home-group, I had to wacth their marriage deterioate and them both finally quit going to church, very sad. To listen to them now you would think they were athiests, or new agers.

When I think of the fruit of the Welsh revival or the fruit of the Lewis revival I think of transformed lifes, pubs closing down, crime rates falling, missionaries being called, men entering the minsitries. The fruit of these revivals transformed communities. When I see what has happened to the American church in the last 20 years, it is the exact opposite. The spiritual landscape is barren today. There is a famine in the land. Young folks are leaving the churches in droves, the spiritual climate of this country is at its lowest ebb. According to Barna, this is the most Biblicaly illiterate generation in 300 years. This, I believe, is part of the fruit produced by an insular group of people who traveled from meeting to meeting seeking the next " experience." The Word of God was not preached, and Calvary lost its central place in worship. Thats how I see it brother, we may disagree, we probably will, but that is what I have seen right here in the middle of the Bible belt. God bless you endzone........brother Frank

I would recommend looking up some sermons by Jacob Prasch on this subject. Many can be found here on this website. Some of the soundest doctrine I've come across.

Here;

http://media.sermonindex.net/17/SID17729.mp3

Listen to it and consider what's being said. Just a warning though, make sure very well that your standard is God's Word and not your own experience before you listen to this.

Just a broad sermon on true Biblical revival in general.

How tragic, DEADn. That breaks my heart.

The problem is your cousin was never regenerated by the hand of God. All of those "manifestations"... but missed the important part. That's the problem with these so-called "revivals".

The revivals of the past revolved sound Biblical teaching and SALVATION... actual regeneration! Conviction of SIN.

Today's revivals are all about "me"... gimme more more! I want more!

What many are getting are devils.

What got me out of that mess was reading the Word of God and studying and sound teaching and preaching.

Krispy

Another tragic aspect of these so called movements, and I believe that this was the primary purpose of the enemy in the first place, was that many conservative pentecostal churches " threw out the baby with the bathwater," so to speak. They were so paranoid about these weird manifestations that they shut down the " freedom,' of the Holy Spirit to move. And people who were biased against the genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit were only bolstered in there error as they witnessed the chaos of these so called movements. ..........brother Frank

I would agree with that... thats a good observation, frank.

Krispy

I actually met RHB and was in a church that had him come for a series of meetings back in the day.

I dont know where RHB is today, but I can safely say that what he was teaching back then was false doctrine through and through. At least back then he was a false teacher, and no, I disagree that what he was doing had anything to do with the Holy Spirit even though I was convinced back then that it did.

The reason I was there back in the day was because I was immature, ignorant of the Bible... and very deceived.

Like I said, I have no idea where or what RHB is doing or at these days. I truly hope he has repented of his former foolishness.

Reinhart Bonnke... dont get me started on this guy. He claims to have raised people from the dead... but apparently they wander off or something afterwards because he has never been able to produce one person who he raised from the dead. Pretty easy to get lost in those remote African locations... which is conveniently where these resurrections always seem to take place. It's never in Chicago or Kansas.

Sorry, you voiced your thoughts on the matter. These are mine, brother EndZone.

Krispy

So, did you go stand in line to get "filled" at the end of the service? Did you go down? Did you just stand there? Did you just stay in your seat?

Brother Frank I did hear about that Toronto thing. I think you are saying RHB was just a small part of it? As far as people howing like dogs and swimming around on the ground like snakes, those are symptoms of people getting delivered from demons. I sure don't believe they are manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

I'd like to ask you the same thing I did KK. Did you stand in line for RHB to do the "filling" at the end of the service? Is so, what was your experience? Or did you just dismiss it outright?

Blessings to you,
EZ

DEADn, that story would be funny if it wasn't so sad. So sorry to hear about your cousin's son being killed at such a young age. So sad, and so sad to hear when young people are taken from us so very early. I want every teen to grow and mature and be whole in the Lord Jesus Christ. Sad story about your cousin too.

If you weren't getting anything out of the RHB meeting though, why did you go for 6 weeks? And BTW, I don't think what happened to your cousin was the working of the Holy Spirit.

Endzone,

I completely agree with EverestoSama about looking into some sermons by Jacob Prasch on this movement.

But even more so I urge you to pray and fast so that the Lord may speak to you on the subject. He alone can have an absolutely unbiased opinion. Yes, it is good that you have sought out advice from your other brothers in the faith, and I believe this site is one of the best places to do that, but more than anything your focus should be to seek discernment from the Lord.

James 1:5 says "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him." (ESV)

So brother if you are truly seeking discernment on this issue, as to whether or not RHB was truly sent by God, then I believe that the best source to go to would be God himself to seek this answer. If a man believes something to be true (as it seems you believe about this movement) then no man's opinion will reveal to you that it is false. The Holy Spirit must be the one to enlighten you to whether this movement was false or valid.

I truly hope that you consider what I have said Endzone as this is so important an issue that we, true believers, face in America today. False gospels are springing up every where one looks, and if we have not sought the Lord for discernment then we will easily be decieved.

Mathew 24:24 says this, "For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." (ESV)

Seek the Lord for wisdom on this issue, and He will answer you if you truely desire an answer.

God bless you brother, and may He open your eyes to truth of this situation.

givensdj, I just respectuflly disagree with you interpretation of RHB's ministry. The problem I have is that due to the sinful addiction I had in my life, no one will believe that I was lead by the Holy Spirit. I guess even after reading my testimony, people wont believe it.

I'll ask you the same question I asked KK and DEADn. Did you go to one of RHB's meetings and stand in line to get the "filling" or anointing or joy or whatever you want to call it? Were you too afraid to? Did you think that if you didn't get it, you would think you were as "spiritual" as everybody else? I'll tell you this, I would have been one of the guys just standing in line, it wouldn't of happened to me. RHB had to work with me a little bit. He always prayed for all the catchers at the very end of the service. We got some extra attention.

But again, given my history, people don't think I could of had the strong presence of the Lord in my life and the Holy Spirit. But people don't understand how much time I spent in prayer and much I sought the Lord in my life.

How tragic, DEADn. That breaks my heart.

The problem is your cousin was never regenerated by the hand of God. All of those "manifestations"... but missed the important part. That's the problem with these so-called "revivals".

The revivals of the past revolved sound Biblical teaching and SALVATION... actual regeneration! Conviction of SIN.

Today's revivals are all about "me"... gimme more more! I want more!

What many are getting are devils.

What got me out of that mess was reading the Word of God and studying and sound teaching and preaching.

Krispy

How did you get out of the mess if you never got into it? You didn't even go up and stand in line? A tought football guy like yourself?

There sure are a lot of video clips on youtube. And if you read the comments, a lot of folks sure disagree with ya'll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZ45w_9t5U

I watched the youtube clip...

Someone has to say it:

And if you read the Bible, a lot of verses sure disagree with this nonsense. (just a couple below)

1Pe 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."

1Pe 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

1Co 14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

Just a simple word study of "sober" negates this youtube clip.

Definition of sober:

1) to be of sound mind
1a) to be in one's right mind
1b) to exercise self control
1b1) to put a moderate estimate upon one's self, think of one's self soberly
1b2) to curb one's passions

Nah, you're just jealous that you didn't get this anointing. That's why you're so defensive about it

So ole Endzone, as sinful as he was, is the only guy on Semon Index to have received the joy in the RHB meetings in the early 90s?

Something you can be proud of. :)

(An addition to your Sermon Index profile!)

Oh, I'm not proud of it. It was just a foretaste of what heaven is going to be like. I sure don't consider myself to be more spiritual than someone who didn't receive it.

Hi Endzone,

In answer to your question, I did not line up. The Holy Spirit would not let me brother. I am a tongue speaking believer in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Lord speaks to me through the word and into my heart. I follow His leading to the best of my ability. I have poured over Scripture and drank it in since the day that I was saved. I love the Word of God. I have seen God perform miracles, I have seen possesed people dispossesed. And so, there is an inner witness and there is the Word of God, both line up against me lining up to be " slain in the Spirit."

I have a good brother who is a missionary in Nepal, he is a pentecostal brother. He was preaching outdoors one day and suddenly two men fell down and began to shake and cry out in ecstasy. The crowd leaned forward, impressed by the " power of God." This brother ran down with a few others into the crowd and cried out to them " this is not of God." They stopped the men and had them removed. He began again to preach and suddenly the Holy Spirit fell upon the crowd, the Holy Spirit of conviciton, there was weeping and hands raised to heaven and men were saved and experienced great joy. Now endzone, the point is this, it was only a matter of this good brother exercising discernment, thats all it took. He could do that because he was genuinly baptized in the Holy Spirit and had that wisdom. He knew and had expereinced the power of God and he knew what he was witnessing was not the power of God, oh yes it was a power, but not THE power. .........brother Frank

Hi Endzone,

In answer to your question, I did not line up. The Holy Spirit would not let me brother. I am a tongue speaking believer in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Lord speaks to me through the word and into my heart. I follow His leading to the best of my ability. I have poured over Scripture and drank it in since the day that I was saved. I love the Word of God. I have seen God perform miracles, I have seen possesed people dispossesed. And so, there is an inner witness and there is the Word of God, both line up against me lining up to be " slain in the Spirit."

I have a good brother who is a missionary in Nepal, he is a pentecostal brother. He was preaching outdoors one day and suddenly two men fell down and began to shake and cry out in ecstasy. The crowd leaned forward, impressed by the " power of God." This brother ran down with a few others into the crowd and cried out to them " this is not of God." They stopped the men and had them removed. He began again to preach and suddenly the Holy Spirit fell upon the crowd, the Holy Spirit of conviciton, there was weeping and hands raised to heaven and men were saved and experienced great joy. Now endzone, the point is this, it was only a matter of this good brother exercising discernment, thats all it took. He could do that because he was genuinly baptized in the Holy Spirit and had that wisdom. He knew and had expereinced the power of God and he knew what he was witnessing was not the power of God, oh yes it was a power, but not THE power. .........brother Frank

Well brother you missed it. It's hard to come to Jesus as a little trusting child. We are afraid we might embarasses ourselves. Believe me, there were pastors there that were afraid. Nobody wants to look foolish or not be the one to "get it". I don't think it had much to do with your discernment--you just didn't want to take the risk.

As far as the story, they say that in Africa when people do that they know immediately that they are getting delivered from a demon.

"I don't think it had much to do with your discernment--you just didn't want to take the risk."

It seems like you have made up your mind endzone.All I can do is assure you that I know the small still voice of the Lord that has been leading and guiding me for 21 years, that voice has never led me astray and has always been in line with Scripture. The sheep knows the masters voice, we are led by the good shepherd and we are led by the word of God. Should I follow what you say or RHB or what the Lord speaks to my heart and what the word of God says? Shall I give account to men for my life here on earth or am I accountable to the Lord and His word? Is it a light unto my path, or should I follow the voice of another? It seems that you would have me abandon all of that, to experience being " slain in the spirit, ' something not even in the Scriptures.

At the risk of being judged by others endzone, can I tell you that I have experienced the presence of God, many times over the last 21 years. It has ruined me for all of this life. The majesty and the glory of being in His presence is beyond all words. You compare some man shouting fire to the glorious majesty of the presence of the living God where mouths are hushed, voices are silenced as the King of Glory comes in. Lives are never the same, never the same after a genuine encounter with the living God. You pray more, you love more, you forgive more you devour the word of God more. Your love and desire for Jesus and to follow Him and Him alone increase. The only name you care about after a genuine encounter with God is Jesus. He is the one who is elevated, not men or movements. I have knelt before men in the presence of God, I have lay prostrate on the floor because of God in front of men. I was not pushed over, no man gets the glory, I simply assumed the only position that is right and proper before a mighty God. My hands are raised to heaven because that is what comes naturaly to me in the presence of God. Brother, by not following the men that you like, I have missed nothing. I will never follow or ascribe to men what rightfully belongs to God. He leads and guides me and I answer to Him.

Endzone, you are free to follow whomever you like. I respect your free will. If you want to follow RHB and spend lots of time talking about him, I have no problem with that. Once a man has genuinly encountered the Lord, he wont give much time to men. He will be caught up in the great love of His soul, Jesus, and spend his time lifting that name up. It becomes a grand obsession. It has been my observations over the years that men who have genuinly encountered the Lord come out of that and want to speak, not about the particulars of their experience, but want to tell others of the majesty and the glory of the living God, they are simply undone. Compare that to some of the crass descriptions we hear from people who want to tell you how they felt and mention little or anything about the God of wonder............brother Frank

hi, i find it very hard to comment on this subject for i have very negative experiences that i did not think were of the Lord while many dear brothers in the church were very involved.to comment on it without being there annoys me to no end.for some it was the first experience with what seemed to be miraculous moves of God.i was on staff ( involvewd in the homeless ministry) in a growing,giving Christ centered church with a powerful ministry to the city.and rhb came and my pastor became drunk in the spirit as did most all the staff. these were great people who were dear friends(and golf buddies)who started a church with a high school prayer group and built it through hundreds of salvations to a large church.it is better to have felt then tellt.we would bring 50 homeless to service and the pastor would sometimes not even preach the gospel. the crazies in the church became crazier and were thought to be in the spirit. there was no order.there was laughing in the middle of preaching or invitations that were so out of order.i left the church because i did not get a clear witness that this was of the Lord. since this time things in that church settled down and they turned their emphases back to winning souls and are doing quite well.i love these people and spent years of joy with them and still love them.they are the greatest influence for God in a very wicked and evil large city and arerecognized as such.

Brother your church sounds what Calvary Cathedral International become. For at least 3 years after RHB left, there was the laughter thing. To this day I don't really believe that was the ministry that the Lord gave to RHB. His ministry was the touch of joy and the ability to resist sin much easier. It was really a glimpse into what heaven is going to be like. But, I don't think it was suppossed to become a movement or a form of worship. So who was wrong? Was it RHB who said this should become the form in your services from now on, or was it the pastors who didn't know when to move on. I think it was on the pastors of the churches where this went on and on and on.

BUT, I'm not going to say this move wasn't very real and very anointed because of that. The experience itself was very real and very much of the Holy Spirit. Did you go down to get "filled"? Or were you too afraid to go down? Were you left standing when he went down the line? Does that mean you're not favored of God or not spiritual? I sure don't think it does brother. You must live in either Vancouver, BC, New Orleans, San Francisco or Las Vegas.

BTW, can you email your pastor and ask him if he still thinks the joy was real? Can you ask him if he still thinks that he was "drunk in the spirit"? Would you post his comments? Thanks.

Brother Frank I spoke of some of things about this movement I didn't like. And, I'm not a RHB follower. How could anybody pull this off if it wasn't real? It would be humanly impossible. You and I will just have to disagree about what spirit was behind it.

I didn't start this thread to just talk about RHB. I just simply wanted to know if anyone got the experience of the joy under his ministry. So far, it looks like I'm the only one on Sermon Index that has. If you watch the youtube videos, most of the comments there are quite positive and affirming of this particular ministry. And, it was a very unique ministry. It's not going to bother me if you think it was from Satan--alright? Please don't let it bother you if I believe it was from the Lord. Fair enough?

How could anybody pull this off if it wasn't real?

If this is your opinion, good luck discerning the man of lawlessness when he enters the scene.

Totally sincere question, did you find that after being filled with this "climactic joy", that it helped free you from sexual sin long term?

If this is your opinion, good luck discerning the man of lawlessness when he enters the scene.

Totally sincere question, did you find that after being filled with this "climactic joy", that it helped free you from sexual sin long term?

Well, as I said before, it was like a river of water flowing inside my body from head to toe. I understand now somewhat what "living water" is. It was a very euphoric feeling, but it was also very holy.

No, it didn't help with my sexual problem, but that wasn't really the purpose of it. The purpose of it was to experience a foretaste of what is to come.

Isn't this little girl cute? This was taken by a lady who lives in Dallas and she post on my photo share site. This was at the Dallas Arboretum.

http://www.pbase.com/craig_c/image/138449889/large

Endzone, you write......

"You and I will just have to disagree about what spirit was behind it."

"Please don't let it bother you if I believe it was from the Lord. Fair enough?"

I can certainly agree to that brother. It does not bother me in the sense of agitation :) I have a shepherds heart and when I see the wolves encircling the sheep, I tend to run to it. Lets pray for each other and let the Lord lead us and guide us in all things. I love you brother and I will be praying for you ( take that in a positive way:) ..........brother Frank

Nevermind.

How can people still possible believe that this Holy Ghost Bartender rubbish has anything at all to do with God!?

Where's the discernment?

Welcome to the last days my friend.

Well, as I said before, it was like a river of water flowing inside my body from head to toe. I understand now somewhat what "living water" is. It was a very euphoric feeling, but it was also very holy.

This is not what Jesus meant by "living water".

Jesus uses the phrase "living water" two times. The first time was during his encounter with the woman at the well in John 4. The second time was in John 7 in the temple when He told the people "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers and seals them for salvation (Ephesians 1:13–14). It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit, flowing out of a heart redeemed and regenerated by God, that brings life and joy to the believers life, and thus becomes a light to the world.

He was not referring to some kind of feeling or goosebump experience. While we do experience joy, it is a lasting permanent joy... not a rush we get at a church service.

Thats one thing that irks me about these "experience-centered" movements. They take phrases from the Bible... completely out of context... and then make them mean something else.

A simple exegete of scripture is usually all it takes to correct the error, but no one either knows how to exegete scripture... or no one cares to be bothered.

Krispy

KK it is ridiculous to say that because some experience that happened in the 20th centry isn't described in the Bible, that it can't really be God. For instance the guy that was driving down the road and going to have a head on collision with another car, but either an angel or the Lord Himself lifted the car above the oncoming car to avoid the collision. Well, that isn't in the Bible is it? So, using your logic it can't possibly be God! What about the others millions of miracles the Lord has probably done for people in the 20th century? Using your logic you could say miracles can't happen that involve anything to do with cars because they didn't have cars in the Bible and Jesus never did a miracle that involved moving a car one way or the other or warning a driver that a collision was about to happen and he should slow down.

There are the religous people on this site and there are the real people on this site. This site attracts a huge amount of religious people for some reason.

KK it is ridiculous to say that because some experience that happened in the 20th centry isn't described in the Bible, that it can't really be God. For instance the guy that was driving down the road and going to have a head on collision with another car, but either an angel or the Lord Himself lifted the car above the oncoming car to avoid the collision. Well, that isn't in the Bible is it? So, using your logic it can't possibly be God! What about the others millions of miracles the Lord has probably done for people in the 20th century? Using your logic you could say miracles can't happen that involve anything to do with cars because they didn't have cars in the Bible and Jesus never did a miracle that involved moving a car one way or the other or warning a driver that a collision was about to happen and he should slow down.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

There are the religous people on this site and there are the real people on this site. This site attracts a huge amount of religious people for some reason.

So because I dont agree with you on something then you resort to name calling and false accusations? Why?

Everyone who doesnt agree with you is "religious"?

If you're going to discuss, and even debate things with other people please learn to discuss and debate. Trying to manipulate people with name calling and accusations shows that you can't articulate for us WHY what these revivals are bringing to the table are scriptural.

Try doing that instead of calling people who challenge you "religious" or "pharisees". It's getting boring and old.

Krispy

Over the years I have disagreed with other brothers and sisters on SI on much deeper matters of doctrine... and I dont think I ever considered them to be "religious" or "pharisees".

I considered them "wrong", but thats ok. Actually in some instances as I grew in the Lord I realized that they were not wrong... I was.

Krispy

Alright, all you religious and self-righteous types on this board just didn't get it then. I thank the Lord that I received this special anointing. No, it didn't change my life, but it did just confirm to me how wonderful a place heaven is going to be. Sorry all you stuffed shirts didn't get it, but you were afraid you would look silly--I know. I was the same way. Oh well.... It's no big deal really. I mean look how well you're doing and how tough the going is for me right now.

Pandarus, you do indeed. The types of judgments you're making have a way of coming back on your own head--even in your little gold coast town there.

I thank the Lord that I received this special anointing.

No, it didn't change my life,

I don't see how these two statements are compatible to be honest.

Endzone,

You said, "Alright, all you religious and self-righteous types on this board just didn't get it then. I thank the Lord that I received this special anointing. No, it didn't change my life, but it did just confirm to me how wonderful a place heaven is going to be. Sorry all you stuffed shirts didn't get it, but you were afraid you would look silly--I know. I was the same way. Oh well...."

I am very saddened by that comment. There is no love in it. It seems rather proud and boastful, although I honestly don't see what there is to be proud about. Endzone, if you think you are right, you shouldn't have to call names and spit at people. You should be able to defend your position from God's Word, provided God is really on your side.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-6)

Please reconsider your sinful attitude, whether you are right about Browne or not. Regardless of who's right, you are sinning. You must repent. I tell you this in love.

Now, I have more that I would like to share with you, but I need to know that you are actually willing to hear. Otherwise, it would be like casting pearls at swine.
I beg you, in love and grace, can you please listen? Let me know what your decision is.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Come on brother, it's not that big of a deal is it? I'm just trying to lighten the mood a little bit, because so many people on this board take themselves way way way too seriously IMHO. Is it really that big of a deal? I'm glad I got the answer to my question. Nobody on Sermon Index got the Holy Spirit touch of joy under RHBs ministry. I know we don't like to come to Jesus as little children. It's hard for me too. Thanks, but it really isn't that big of a deal IMHO. There are a lot tougher things in life to deal with. This isn't really even a problem. Like I told Appolous, if you think it was from Satan, that's fine with me. If I think it was from the Holy Spirit I hope that is OK with you. Why don't we just agree to disagree? Look outside, it's a beautiful day, and I thank the Lord that He has everything under control. Thanks.

Endzone,

Actually, I do think this is a serious matter. This is about the eternal destiny of men and women's souls.

Do you believe in a personal devil and what the Bible says about the devil prowling around looking for whomever he might devour? Do you believe what the Bible says about wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets/teachers, and how they will lead many people to hell who think they are following God?

I believe what God says, and I see the destruction these people cause day after day. Countless people will go to hell because of them. Out of love for the eternal souls of men, I must at least try to snatch them from the fire. Jude 1:23 - "Save others by snatching them out of the fire."

If this was just about doctrine or the law, I wouldn't make so much of it. But, this one is serious. So many people are blinded and are on their way to eternal torment. Because of these false prophets, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, even among those who think they are saved. (Matthew 7:15-23) There will be no end to their pain and suffering. Out of love for them, I cannot just sit back and look at the carnage.

Would you let a friend drive up to see you if you knew that a category 5 hurricane was on the way, or would you warn him to find cover until the storm has passed by? Well, there is a much fiercer storm ahead. It would be irresponsible and unloving of me to be silent, out of complacency.

This is not a game. This is about eternal life, and eternal death.

I have more to say, but until you are willing to hear, it is pointless for me to say anything. In love and mercy, I beg you to reconsider. Please let me know if you decide that you want to hear.

Love in Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Renoncer, I don't think whether you got the "touch" at the RHB meetings or didn't, is going to determine your eternal destiny. A lot of posters on here said they thought it was crazy, and they didn't want anything to do with it. OK, that's fine, did they lose their salvation because of it?

Some people including jimp's pastor got the "touch". They made the mistake of trying to make a movement out of this experience, but did they lose their salvation because of that? Of course not. And to use a example from KK's doctrine, there isn't anything in the Bible that says if you go to a RHB meeting in the 1990s, you will lose your salvation, so since it isn't in the Bible I wouldn't worry about it.

To suggest that brothers that went to a RHB meeting and got the "touch" are going to hell is just beyond ridiculous.

Have you considered that you and others may be dangerously close to blaspheme against the HOly Spirit by lashing out at this man's ministry? To lash out at RHB and say, "This guy is posssed by Satan, and that is how he is able to deceive people and persuade people to do crazy things" is a dangerous judgment IMHO. If you were to say, "I'm not convinced that he was doing it by the power of the Holy Spirit and it isn't for me" would be a much safer thing to say--wouldn't it?

Sorry all you stuffed shirts didn't get it, but you were afraid you would look silly--I know.

No one in real life has ever accused me of being a stuff shirt... lol. I almost spewed my coffee when I read that.

Whats with all the name calling and personal attacks?

Krispy

And to use a example from KK's doctrine, there isn't anything in the Bible that says if you go to a RHB meeting in the 1990s, you will lose your salvation, so since it isn't in the Bible I wouldn't worry about it.

MY doctrine?? According to "MY" doctrine if someone are chasing after blatently false teachings and doctrines that person may not be saved to begin with.

But thats not "MY" doctrine... thats the Bible's doctrine. Particularly 1 John.

1 John 2:18-19 "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

By the way, I've never fully clarified on here exactly what "my" doctrine or theology is... so really you are making assumptions about things that you know very little about.

You would do well to heed Proverbs 17:28 sometimes when you feel compelled to declare your assumptions about people and what they believe and what they are (i.e. stuff shirts)

Proverbs 17:28 "Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent."

Or... as Abraham Lincoln put it: "Better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

Krispy