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Voices from the Early Church: Cyprian, to the Unmarried Sisters

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For God neither made the sheep scarlet or purple, nor taught the juices of herbs and shellfish to dye and color wool. Neither did He arrange necklaces with stones set in gold, and with pearls woven together or clustered, wherewith you would hide the neck which He made.

Has God willed that wounds should be made in the ears, so that innocent childhood—unconscious of worldly evil—may be put to pain, that subsequently from the scars and holes of the ears precious beads may hang, heavy, if not by their weight, still by the amount of their cost? These are things that sinning and apostate angels put forth by their arts, when, lowered to the contagions of earth, they forsook their heavenly vigor. These angels taught them also to paint the eyes with blackness drawn round them in a circle, and to stain the cheeks with a deceitful red, and to change the hair with false colors, and to change the reality of both facial features and the head, by assaulting them with changes.

God says, “Let us make man in our image and likeness,” and does anyone dare to alter and to change what God has made?
For the sake of the fear which faith suggests to me, for the sake of the love which brotherhood requires, I think that not virgins only and widows, but married women also, should be admonished that the work of God and His fashioning and formation ought in no manner to be adulterated. This should not happen either with the application of yellow color, or with black dust or rouge, or with any kind of makeup which can change the natural look. God says, “Let us make man in our image and likeness,” and does anyone dare to alter and to change what God has made? They are laying hands on God when they try to reform that which He formed, and to transfigure it, not knowing that everything which comes into being is God’s work, and everything that is changed is the devil’s.

If any artist were to paint a beautiful portrait of anyone; and once finished another person were to lay hands on it, as if he, being more skilled, could amend it, a serious wrong and a just cause of indignation would seem natural to the former artist. And do you think you can commit such a wicked boldness without impunity, an offence to God the Maker? For although you may not be immodest among men, and are not unchaste with your seducing dyes, yet when those things which belong to God are degraded and violated, you are engaged in a worse adultery. That you think yourself to be adorned, that you think your hair to be dressed, is an assault upon the divine work, a distortion of the truth.

The voice of the warning apostle is, “Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened; for even Christ our passover is sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.” But are sincerity and truth preserved, when what is genuine is polluted by adulterous colors, and what is true is changed into a lie by the deceitful dyes of makeup? Your Lord says, “Thou canst not make one hair white or black,” and you, in order to overcome the word of your Lord, will be more mighty than He, and stain your hair with a daring endeavor and with profane contempt.

Are you not afraid, I entreat you, being such as you are, that when the day of resurrection comes, your Maker may not recognize you again, and may turn you away when you come to His rewards and promises, and may exclude you, rebuking you with the vigor of a Censor and Judge, and say: “This is not my work, nor is this our image. You have polluted your skin with a false makeup, you have changed your hair with an adulterous color, your face is violently taken possession of by a lie, your figure is corrupted, your countenance is another’s. You cannot see God, since your eyes are not those which God made, but those which the devil has spoiled. You have followed him, you have imitated the red and painted eyes of the serpent. As you are adorned in the fashion of your enemy, with him also you shall burn by and by.”

Are not these, I beg, matters to be reflected on by God’s servants? Are they not always to be dreaded day and night? Let married women consider whether they are deceiving themselves concerning the solace of their husbands with the desire of pleasing them. While they put them forward indeed as their excuse, they make them partners in the association of guilty consent. Virgins—to whom this address is intended to appeal—who have adorned themselves with arts of this kind, I should think ought not to be counted among virgins, but, like infected sheep and diseased cattle be driven from the holy and pure flock of virginity, lest by living together they should pollute the rest with their contagion; lest they ruin others even as they have perished themselves.

Since we are seeking the benefits of continency, let us also avoid everything that is pernicious and hostile to it.~

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Sometimes words fail me.......

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To me it is very interesting that the early church had a great aversion from being conformed to the world in anyway. As for us in our day we need to find the balance of taking this heart and applying it as the Spirit leads us in our day. We must be open to learn from the early church in this way, maybe not to fully endorse to copy some of their standards but to at least learn from their burdens and adjust partially in our lives.

As Ravenhill has said too many times about the church in our day: "The world is too much with us..."

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EverestoSama,

Yes brother, sometimes words fail me as well. As most church history scholers would know, Cyprian helped build the foundations of the Roman Catholic Church and preached that there was no salvation outside of it. Oh how that cruel teaching caused untold misery down through the centuries. Cyprian was a wealthy man. This is important because when persecution came to the church in Africa, it was mostly the wealthy that " lapsed." They either sacrificed to idols or handed over their Scriptures to the authorities. Cyprian himself fled although he greatly critisised those who lasped, from afar. At this point we see the rise of the Novationsist and later the Donatists's.

Novationists called themselves "Kathoroi," meaning Puritans, so we see that they were the earliest Puritans. They were declared heritics by Cyprian and the church of Rome, for they would not submit to the "Bishop of Rome." Total obedience was required by the Catholic Church. The Novationsists also denied " Absolution."

For those interested , please find some quotes from Cyprian below...........brother Frank

In "De unitate ecclesiae," Cyptian writes " "He can no longer have God for His Father who has not the Church for his mother;....he who gathereth elsewhere than in the Church, scatters the Church of Christ; nor is there any home to believers but the one Church."

"Our Lord, whose commands we ought to fear and observe, says in the Gospel, by way of assigning the episcopal dignity and settling the plan of His Church...[quotes Matthew 16:18f]...From that time the ordination of bishops and the plan of the Church flows on through the changes of times and successions; for the Church is founded upon the bishops, and every act of the Church is controlled by these same rulers. Since this has indeed been established by divine law, I marvel at the rash boldness of certain persons who have desired to write to me as if they were writing their letters in the name of the Church, 'since the Church is established upon the bishop and upon the clergy and upon all who stand firm in the faith.'" (Cyprian, Letter 33 (27), 1 to the Lapsed, c. AD 250)

"They who have not peace themselves now offer peace to others. They who have withdrawn from the Church promise to lead back and to recall the lapsed to the Church. There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one Chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewehre is scattering." (Cyprian, Letter 43 (40), 5, c. AD 251)

"With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the chair of Peter and to the principal Church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source; nor did they take thought that these are Romans, whose faith was praised by the preaching Apostle, and among whom it is not possible for perfidy to have entrance." (Cyprian, Letter 59 (55), 14 to Cornelius of Rome, c. AD 252)

"There speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are secretly in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is One and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another." (Cyprian, Letter 66 (69), 8 to Florentius Pupianus, c. AD 254)

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We might protest Cyprian himself or some things written but the honest fact is the world is sinning the young sisters to itself. The fashions, ways of the world are winning them. They are desiring to look like fashion models and other worldly idols and examples and they are wearing makeup and dresses to make them look attractive and thereby attracting men of baser softs who defile them.

fornication is rampant in the church in north america. We think it is normal now but it is a grief to the living God. The only way to steam and stop this is to take steps now to protect "Unmarried Sisters" in the church.

I believe the heart that this article comes from is a heart to actually care and safe these dear sisters from much harm.

Oh how we need such radical changes in the church. The church of our day has been defiled so much that we cannot tell what is holy or profane anymore.

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Greg writes.....

"Oh how we need such radical changes in the church. The church of our day has been defiled so much that we cannot tell what is holy or profane anymore"

And on this Greg, as I am sure you know ( per our many private conversations) we agree. Now, how to bring about this change? On that we definately disagree. Enforcing rules of dress code, making men swear absolute obedience to other men, hating money, none of these will bring about changes in a world that loves money, loves lording it over others it, hates Lordship and loves the attention of others.

There is but one solution, the Lord Jesus Christ and a genuine conversion. When a man and a woman genuinly become new creatures in Christ, they are led by the Holy Spirt into truth. Its the Holy Spirit that leads and guides. For men to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit as laid down by Scripture, and then expect to see Holiness and virtuous living is like expecting blind men to lead other blind men and not fall down into a ditch.

If you know the history of the Pharisitical movement, you will know that it started out with great intentions, shocked and dismayed at the behaviour of those coming out of exile and still living Babylonian lifestyles. We know the end results of that movement, driven by a love of rules and not of men and crucifying Jesus. Think about why the Lord Jesus performed so many miracles on the Sabbath, to expose the fact that the rulers of the day were more interested in their rules than people..........brother Frank

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MaryJane

by appolus on 2011/10/4 5:45:28

Greg writes.....

"Oh how we need such radical changes in the church. The church of our day has been defiled so much that we cannot tell what is holy or profane anymore"

And on this Greg, as I am sure you know ( per our many private conversations) we agree. Now, how to bring about this change? On that we definately disagree. Enforcing rules of dress code, making men swear absolute obedience to other men, hating money, none of these will bring about changes in a world that loves money, loves lording it over others it, hates Lordship and loves the attention of others.

There is but one solution, the Lord Jesus Christ and a genuine conversion. When a man and a woman genuinly become new creatures in Christ, they are led by the Holy Spirt into truth. Its the Holy Spirit that leads and guides. For men to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit as laid down by Scripture, and then expect to see Holiness and virtuous living is like expecting blind men to lead other blind men and not fall down into a ditch.

If you know the history of the Pharisitical movement, you will know that it started out with great intentions, shocked and dismayed at the behaviour of those coming out of exile and still living Babylonian lifestyles. We know the end results of that movement, driven by a love of rules and not of men and crucifying Jesus. Think about why the Lord Jesus performed so many miracles on the Sabbath, to expose the fact that the rulers of the day were more interested in their rules than people..........brother Frank

___________

I agree with what you shared here Frank. I have read this article over a few times now and was not really sure what to say about it.

Thank you and God Bless
mj

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Jeremy221

This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing this Greg.

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UntoBabes

I think the key here is to know whom the author is addressing . Is he addressing the unsaved world, or the church. I do not dare to think he is addressing the lost world.
From the title, It seems he is addressing sisters( the church). When the church repents the world is saved.
Both the leading of the Holy Spirit and the expounding of the Word are needed to bring the church to repentance. If the Holy Spirit alone was sufficient, then Paul the Apostle would not have needed to write to the church of Corinth who recieved the Holy Spirit or any church for that matter. And if the Word alone was sufficient, then the modern American church must be considered the most Holy church since it possesses the greatest amount of teaching and expounding of the Word than any other church in the international community.

So, Greg is right in leading a move to prayer and seeking the Lord's face in revival and awakeing of the church, bringing down the Holy Spirit back to the church, along with expounding the Word to show her where she falls short in following the footsteps of saints of the past and the teachings of the Lord Jesus.

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Hi Untobabes,

Good post. I agree with expounding the Word and clearly the Corinthian church did not have 1st and 2nd Corinthians to read prior to it being written :)

I am not sure if you can be part of bringing the Holy Spirit back to the church if you are a cessasionist, quite frankly that does not make sense.

As for the author of the piece, my point was he was part of the Roman Catholic church, the kings of the legalists. There were voices in that time who spoke against these men, the Novationsists being one voice and the Donatists later being another.

Greg and I have came to this point before, if the church is as bad as he says it is, and I believe that he is correct, then can that church be reformed? Should Luther have broken away from the Catholic church? Should he not just have prayed for a revival? Should the Novationsists have broken away? Should the Donatists have broken way? The Hussites, the Waldenisans, the Puritans, the ana-baptists, the Moravians, any of the countless break-aways from the Roman Catholic church or any other State church.

What these guys of old had in common, was their passion for the cause of what they considered to be the actual Church. They were willing to make a stand and be seperate, we do not have such a generation right now. For to make a stand and be seperate and come out from amongst her, makes you no friends. You cannot have it all ways. And when one makes a stand against what is established, that very establishment will come after you with all their might because you threaten their very existence. This has been proven down through the centuries and it is from these ranks that we have our martyrs. Men who were willing to lay down their lives and everything they had, including their reputations, for the cause which burned in their bones. Most of these martyrs, were martyred by the church that Cyprian represented...........brother Frank

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UntoBabes

"quote" And when one makes a stand against what is established, that very establishment will come after you with all their might because you threaten their very existence. "quote"


I must agree with you there, brother.
I think the question is: Has the church become completely beyond redemption?
That is where some good Christians may disagree.

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"I think the question is: Has the church become completely beyond redemption?
That is where some good Christians may disagree"

And on that we agree brother :) ........ brother Frank

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Matthew 13:24, 25 "Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way."

John 9:4 "I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day..."

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

The early church was immersed in the power of the Holy Spirit because they were awake and children of light and of the day. They were sober, they were vigilant, they were watching at the watchtower. The majority of the church today is beyond lulled and beyond sleeping... they're dead (1 Timothy 5:6). They're too busy watching TV and movies than watching the sheep and for the enemy.

Men slept...

The enemy plants hypocrites (false prophets) in the world to fool the saved and the unsaved - they're actors, fooling you is what they do best. He is able to do this because appointed men of God are passed out asleep, drunk with worldliness. We're exposed like Noah was, our shame is so evident. And our enemy laughs and is able to plant religious workers of iniquity. The name of God is blasphemed in the world because of this (Romans 2:24). Do you have areas in your life where you are lax and lulled and comfortable with worldliness that leads to sin and death?

Ephesians 5:14-18 "Wherefore He saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit..."

while it's day...

The early church followed our Lord. He was urgent and quick with obedience, ever inclined to the Father. He was under the authority of His Father. He knew the night was coming soon and He was compelled to watch and pray and listen and act while He could, while it was still day. If you're still alive, you have the day! Let us follow our Lord's example. The early church was sober and vigilant during their day and see what they accomplished. See the outpouring of the Spirit and His prevailing power, delivering the captives!

We still have time, you're alive, it's still day. The revival starts in YOU. Submit to each other and be clothed with humility... humble yourself under the mighty hand of God... THEN will He exalt YOU... thus the church! Please allow revival to begin in YOU.

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ArtB

Appolus.

I am saddened that our Church had devolved to this low level as early as 250 AD. It had long been my view that the corruption of the Pristine Christian Church occurred when Emperor Constantine legalized Christianity, and banned paganism, took over and looted the Pagan temples, and turned many into Churches.

I call the early Church 'PRISTINE' because there existed no earthly rewards for being a Christian, except for God's grace upon them. Christians were constantly severely persecuted. Thus the only reason to be a Christian is true faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross.

When Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, pagans converted en masse to Christianity simply because that was where the power and money was to be found. In place of their Gods and Goddesses, they brought into Christianity their paganism, disguised as being Christian. They introduced praying the to dead male and female saints, with each saint representing a different want that they desired. And they made Rome to be the seat of Peter, there never was a seat of Peter, it can not be found in the Bible.

But now you reveal to me that Christians in circa 250 AD was not at all pristine, they were killing fellow Christians, albeit claimed to be apostates. THERE IS NO AUTHORIZATION IN THE NT FOR CHRISTIANS TO MURDER OTHER CHRISTIANS OR EVEN APOSTATES because of their beliefs..

There was no Catholic Church in 260 AD. It slowly evolved into existence from the time Constantine Declared Christianity as the official Religion of the Roman Empire, up to Pope Leo who made it official that only the Bishop of Rome could be THE LEADER, the POPE of the Christian Church, and He was a Bishop of Rome.

BTW, The Mediterranean area were not the only places where Christianity existed. There were Christians throughout Africa and Asia that were not associated with the Church of Rome.

As for young girls piercing their ears, I'm not for it. If they choose to pierce their ears in their latter teens, it is their choice. Their Christianity will not depend on not wearing earrings, but of their acceptance and relationship with Jesus Christ, and their heart condition.

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MyVeryHeart

deedandtruth wrote:

"Matthew 13:24, 25 "Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way."

John 9:4 "I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day..."

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

The early church was immersed in the power of the Holy Spirit because they were awake and children of light and of the day. They were sober, they were vigilant, they were watching at the watchtower. The majority of the church today is beyond lulled and beyond sleeping... they're dead (1 Timothy 5:6). They're too busy watching TV and movies than watching the sheep and for the enemy.

Men slept...

The enemy plants hypocrites (false prophets) in the world to fool the saved and the unsaved - they're actors, fooling you is what they do best. He is able to do this because appointed men of God are passed out asleep, drunk with worldliness. We're exposed like Noah was, our shame is so evident. And our enemy laughs and is able to plant religious workers of iniquity. The name of God is blasphemed in the world because of this (Romans 2:24). Do you have areas in your life where you are lax and lulled and comfortable with worldliness that leads to sin and death?

Ephesians 5:14-18 "Wherefore He saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit..."

while it's day...

The early church followed our Lord. He was urgent and quick with obedience, ever inclined to the Father. He was under the authority of His Father. He knew the night was coming soon and He was compelled to watch and pray and listen and act while He could, while it was still day. If you're still alive, you have the day! Let us follow our Lord's example. The early church was sober and vigilant during their day and see what they accomplished. See the outpouring of the Spirit and His prevailing power, delivering the captives!

We still have time, you're alive, it's still day. The revival starts in YOU. Submit to each other and be clothed with humility... humble yourself under the mighty hand of God... THEN will He exalt YOU... thus the church! Please allow revival to begin in YOU. "


Amen!!!

God Bless you!!

- Travis

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ArtB

deedandtruth, I will join Travis in saying 'Amen' to your post.

You'll be glad to hear that in my circles where I live, the Church is alive and well and bearing fruit.

"The enemy plants hypocrites (false prophets) in the world to fool the saved and the unsaved - they're actors, fooling you is what they do best. He is able to do this because appointed men of God are passed out asleep, drunk with worldliness. We're exposed like Noah was, our shame is so evident. And our enemy laughs and is able to plant religious workers of iniquity. The name of God is blasphemed in the world because of this (Romans 2:24). Do you have areas in your life where you are lax and lulled and comfortable with worldliness that leads to sin and death?"

Could you expand on this paragraph as to:

Who is the 'we' and 'our' that you are talking about?

Surely you are not talking about yourself?

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1 Samuel 16:7

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at...

...whether or not we have pierced ears, or dyed hair, or things like hair length, makeup, and necklaces. According to the initial post at least.

Somehow I remember God actually wording it a bit different than that though.

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dietolive

[Edit: I corrected the misspellings.]

Thank you for posting Brother Greg. The spirit of the writing is pure; the author, I know, later sealing his testimony with his own blood...

A true Christian, (one at peace with God, through faith in His dear Son), strives to obey every commandment of his Lord and Master. He strives therefore to excel in being a shining light to the lost and benighted mass of people on every side.

It is no light thing then, dear Brothers, to be a representative of the Creator God to this wicked world. No my friends, it is a GREAT thing, an AWESOME responsibility. Our public walk, the life we live, has ETERNAL consequences...

Sisters: You are precious in God's sight and one of the mightiest weapons in God's arsenal. A chaste, holy, Godly woman stops the mouth of the wicked; she devastates the spiritually wicked strongholds, pounding their walls to dust...

Knowing the great good that is in your power to fight for the Kingdom of God, you have a responsibility to act. If you are doing everything in your power,(everything that can reasonably be done), to stop wicked men from committing spiritual adultery with you, you are doing well. But if the Spirit convicts otherwise, prayerfully search the Scriptures to find out what you must now do.

In the end, those of us who know God, who have Christ dwelling within, are free. We are free from Pharaseeism on one side, and we are free from Reactionism on the other. We are free to love God with all our hearts; we are free to love everyone, yes, even laying down our lives for them, if need be.

Now let us go forth in this glorious liberty and shock the world again. Let us go forth in the beauty of holiness and in the brilliance of God's reflected light.

Be well in Christ,
Doug

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Thank you bro. Travis, I receive that! Much grace to you!!

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That report is an encouragement to me bro. ArtB. In what I've been witnessing, it seems to be very rare for local body's to be alive and bearing fruit unfortunately. I'm greatly grieved by this and am constantly praying and remaining hopeful by bearing, believing the best and enduring all things (1 Corinthians 13:7). Only through His love can we do this so we must continue to beg for more of Him and less of us.

To answer your question, I believe we're in this together. There was a time when I was deceived, whirling round and round in the world's system. My job at one point took so much of my thoughts, energy and time. I know first hand what's its like to feel trapped as a sincere Christian, feeling that you can't escape yourself and the worldliness that's ever so present. I know shame and I know guilt... I know what it is to be appointed but feeling trapped in the world and stuck in the mire of sin. I WAS apart of the 'we' and 'our' at one point in my walk but God got in the pit and rescued me as I truly repented! The pit can't touch Him! Greater is He that is in me than He that is in this world! I identify and suffer with any 'sinner' desperately wanting out of the mire and worldliness. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. We must humble ourselves and seek repentance wrought forth by godly sorrow, not a worldly sorrow that is proud. Truly sit still and think of the magnitude of ONE sin. ONE sin led to what we're dealing with now in 2011. How much more vast and greater is ONE deliberate sin today in our bodies, the temple of God? He will destroy us (1 Corinthians 3:16,17). We need light on the magnitude of sin; yet where sin abounded, grace did much more abound (Romans 5:20). He knows us and extends His mercy but take heed, He judges righteously.

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"But now you reveal to me that Christians in circa 250 AD was not at all pristine"

Hi ArtB, can I suggest the book "The Pilgrim Church." It will give you good insight into early church history.

"BTW, The Mediterranean area were not the only places where Christianity existed. There were Christians throughout Africa and Asia that were not associated with the Church of Rome."

That is not correct, in fact Cyprian himself was from north Africa and reported to the Bishop of Rome...........brother Frank

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dietolive

Dear brother Frank-

You said:
"That is not correct, in fact Cyprian himself was from north Africa and reported to the Bishop of Rome...........brother Frank"

Having read your writings and having come to the conclusion that you are a spirit who desires the truth, (as it is in Jesus), at all costs, I offer the following for you to peruse.

Cyprian did in fact withstand and reject the authority of the bishop of Rome. This with regard to their opposing views on the re-baptism of schismatics, (they who were then entering the Church, who had previously already been baptized in a schismatic assembly.)

Ironically, it was Stephen, then the bishop of Rome, that held the milder view under debate. He said that schismatics did NOT need to be re-baptized, so long as they had been baptized according to the words of Scripture, and so long as they were found sincere in their faith.

It was Cyprian who held that a schismatic baptism was no baptism at all...

They then both broke off fellowship one with the other!

Now who was the schismatic!? One could say one, one could say the other, but I would say,

In this case: both!

Read the full story here:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc2.v.vii.xvi.html

And be well my friend,
Doug

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followthelamb

Going back to the original post for a moment, and though my spirit does not bear witness to every detail of Cyprian's interpretations, there is much good to be found in having a reference point for just how far we have fallen away from even the Scriptures of truth in regard to many such things including even modesty, etc.

If we speak, dress, and live just as sensuously and thoughtlessly as the world, delighting in all the same things this fallen world does...how then can we be shining the love and light of His holy Word and Spirit into the darkness of these days?

Are we beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and being transformed into His image, as it is written?

Or we being seduced and distracted and lulled to sleep...beholding as in a mirror the spirit of this world and being conformed to it rather than Christ?

Below is another angle on what the ordinal post was touching on and it was written by Watchman Nee:

"There is, then, an ordered system, "the world," which is governed from behind the scenes by a ruler, Satan. . .Indeed, unless we look at the unseen powers behind the material things we may readily be deceived.

This consideration may help us to understand better the passage in 1 Peter 3 alluded to above. There the apostle sets "the outward adorning (cosmos) of plaiting the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel" in deliberate contrast with "the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." By inference, therefore, the former are corrupt and worthless to God. We may or may not be ready at once to accept Peter'sevaluation, depending upon whether we see the true import of his words. Here is what he is implying. In the background behind these matters of wearing apparel and jewelry and make-up, there is a power at work for its own ends. Do notlet that power grip you.

What, we have to ask ourselves, is the motive that activates us in relation to these things? It may be nothing sensuous but altogether innocent, aiming by the use of tone and harmony and perfect matching merely to gain an effect that is aesthetically pleasing. There may be nothing intrinsically wrong in doing this; but do you and I see what we are touching here? We are touching that harmonious system behind the things seen, a system that is controlled by God's enemy. So let us be wary. . .

There is a spiritual force behind this world scene which, by means of "the things that are in the world," is seeking to enmesh men in its system. It is not merely against sin therefore that the saints of God need to be on their guard, but against the ruler of this world. God is building up his Church to its consummation in the universal reign of Christ. Simultainneously his rival is building up this world system to its vain climax in the reign of antichrist. How watchful we need to be lest at any time we be found helping Satan in the construction of that ill-fated kingdom."

Lord Jesus, revive us with the supply of your Holy Spirit of truth in these last days, so that we may awaken from our slumber and follow wherever your Spirit leads.

S
sermonindex

Hey brother Doug,

It is good to be acknowledged and someone who desires truth, thank you brother, I appreciate the warmth of that statement. Can I just expand on where I am coming from with Cyprian? Let me say first and foremost that I was born and raised a Catholic in a Catholic community in the west coast of Scotland. The whole of my education was Catholic. The cmmunity that I was raised in were " staunch," Catholics, much like Irish Catholics. At the age of 27 I encountered the Lord Jesus Christ who radically changed my world, delivering me from the ravages of alcohol and drugs, praise His holy name.

Cyprian was in every sense a Catholic. The sacramental system by 250ad was already firmly in place. When persecution came to north Africa, Carthage to be precise, Cyprian fled. Many refused to sacrifice to idols and were killed, many more relented or " lapsed." If you relented or lapsed, you were given a reciept by the authorities saving you from persecution, it was called a libellus.

The controvery came later. Would those who had lapsed be allowed re-entry into the " church," a church that Cyprian asserted that there was no salvation to be found outside of.( a believe that holds until this very day within the Catholic church)

It is important to know that the Roman government could care less whether you were " catholic," or otherwise and killed, during persecution, anyone with the title christian. What is interesting is that there were brothers and sisters, 1250 years before Luther and the reformation, who recognized and refused to bow the knee to the sacramental system of religion. This group was known as Novationsists, later followed by Donantists.

I think one of the key things that we learn of genuine Christianity down through the ages is that no matter what, they refused to deny their Lord and Saviour Jesus, and paid the ultimate price. This is why there was such an objection to those who relented or lapsed and took the " libellus.'

It seems obvious that there has always been two opposing groups within Christianity, broadly speaking, whether it be the wheat and the tares, or the sheep and the goats, or the ten virgins and so on. To think that the first several centuries was free from that is simply idealistic. We know that right from the beginning there were wolves in sheeps clothing. For three years Paul did not cease, night and day, to warn of the wolves that would come and scatter the flock, it was that important to Paul, he could see it coming. This was certainly the case in 250ad. And as in most cases, persecution would seperate what was real from what was religious. The real is always in the minority, always the remnant............brother Frank

D
dietolive

Brother Frank -

Yes, I am familiar with the history. I see you are well-read.

Yes, that system, the anti-christ system, had its roots even in New Testament times, and I agree with you that it is diabolical.

I grew up in a Catholic community and attended Roman Catholic churches too. Boy, what they would make of me now! A full-fledged Protestant!

Be well Bro :O)
Doug

S
sermonindex

Greg,
whats going on?
love, neil

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