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Not all recieve the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to recieve it!

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njhoover

Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism. When I became a Christian and read of the miracles of Jesus, the Acts of the Apostles and the promise of Christ that "whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do" made me realize I had no ability to do likewise. I began to pray and beg God to give me this Spirit of power. One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness. This is the Baptism of the Spirit.

Related scriptures include Luke 11:11-13:
"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ASK him!”

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice they heard the word and were baptized, but didn't receive the Spirit until the Apostles prayed and laid on hands.

Matthew 22:
"And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. Again he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.' But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.' And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' For many are called, but few are chosen."

I have come to believe the wedding garment is the Holy Spirit and those without it are not Christ's.

Romans 8:14
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THESE are sons of God."

Lastly 2 Corinthians 13:5 says
"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ IS IN YOU?—unless indeed you FAIL to meet the test!"

I hope this builds up. I appreciate any disagreements or criticism.

A
a-servant

Hi njhoover.

I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well.

Look how garment is used here:

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

It's a personal way of conduct, they have defiled their garments, to what the remedy is to overcome (sin) - and so their name will not be blotted out of the book of life. And He said this to them by first calling that church in general "dead". And then specifies that "a few" of them are not defiled. The Holy Spirit is always holy, He is not subject to defilement, so this cannot be the distinction here.

Here the Spirit is called the Comforter, a person that is given to those that love Jesus and are willing to do whatever he says:

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

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sermonindex

njhoover

`I began to pray and beg God to give me this Spirit of power.`

You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point.

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sermonindex

This is a very controversial topic... but let me say that EVERY believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit and recieves the Holy Spirit at conversion. There can be NO conversaion without the Holy Spirit.

Krispy

M
murrcolr

Quote:- Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism.

Are you sure

Quote:- One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness.

I rejoice with and remember the day where when I asked God to change me I wasn’t a Christian the very opposite, I didn’t go church, but I was fed up being violent and knew that if I didn’t get help I would end up killing someone… As I prayed the simple prayer God change me I fed up being like this and laid down on my bed..

What happened next was a wind left me after it left a wind blew into me (a physical wind one which I could feel) and I sat up in bed and spoke in tongues…

I cant deny what happened to me that night and I never will, but as I have gone on in my life I have come to a different way at looking being Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Well what is this different way of looking at it you may ask well there is a quote on this post:-

Quote:- You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point.

Look at what Peter says in Acts 15:8-9 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

God acknowledged them (1)by giving them the Holy Spirit (2)AND purifying there hearts..

So this violent man who was radically changed to a totally different person that later stage Christian walk comes to a different way of thinking after a time of fasting and prayer. That after that time of fasting and prayer God reveals to him that there still remains in him the remnant of Sin.

That SIN remains in the believer after conversion.

That this SIN is so rapped up in your personality and in who you are that you believe it to be you. God in his mercy also revealed that he has made provision to deal with that SIN that remains…

Look at the Corinthian church their internal squabbles and sexual immorality. Paul makes it very plain in his letter that the Corinthian Christians, though they had the gifts of the Spirit in operation in their church, were nevertheless "carnal" (3:1-4)

You see its not enough to say we can talk in tongues or can operate in the gifts, as we can talk in tongues until we are blue in the face and yet be “carnal” and when we have elevated to a place of importance that SIN that remains will destroy us and the name of Jesus will be mocked because our heart has not been clean and we have been deceived by the SIN that remains in us.

The church today needs to be Holy, believers today need to be Holy…its not enough to say I can talk in tongues I operate in the gifts of the spirit, I say this even though I talk in tongues and can operate in the gifts.

We must be able to say, the church must be able say that our hearts have been purified. Then you’ll see the church, Gods people move in ways we have only read or heard about…

Lord, make me as holy as a pardoned sinner can be made Quote :- Robert Murray McCheyne

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Christinyou

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

What promise, The Holy Spirit of promise. None of these ask for the Holy Spirit which God Poured out at Pentecost and in them to fulfill the statement in many different places; "He is with you and shall be in you".

In Christ: Phillip

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sermonindex

"...even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

That means EVERYONE that the Lord chooses to save!

Krispy

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njhoover

"There can be NO conversaion without the Holy Spirit."

True. No one can approach Christ unless the Father allows it. Conviction doesn't come without the Holy Spirit. The scripture does make a distinction between being called by the Spirit and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit. The verse I quoted in my first post is a perfect example.

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice the progression: Received the word (believed the word), baptized, THEN the Spirit fall on them after PRAYER for the Spirit.

"You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point."

Allow me to disagree:
2 Timothy 1:7
"for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of POWER and love and self-control."

Characterizing the Spirit as the "Spirit of power" is not at all unbiblical and just reflects one of its attributes.

"I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well."

I will concede on this point. Perhaps I am wrong. Though scripture does mention the Spirit in terms of clothing in one instance:

Luke 24:49
"And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are CLOTHED with power from on high."

I would encourage others to read past threads:
"You Need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Wilkerson"
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=24862&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go

And the sermon by Wilkerson:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15234&commentView=itemComments

Sermon by Tozer:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=62007205514

"This is a very controversial topic..."
I am in agreement with you here brother. I don't mean to stir up dissension, just to pass on the teaching entrusted to me.

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njhoover

David Wilkerson expounds on the reality and importance of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in his book The Cross and the Switchblade. He explains that at Teen Challenge, one of the keys to breaking heroin addiction was for the kids to seek this filling of the Holy Spirit.

Page 157:
"The Book of Acts tells us of five different times when people received this experience," I said, "and the early Pentecostals noticed four out of five of these times, the people who were baptized with the Holy Spirit began to speak in tongues."

Page 162:
"Roberto took one look at me and leaped to his feet; and my heart leaped with him. "I want everything God has for me," he said. "I want to make it through and never come back." Roberto fairly ran to the front of the chapel. He grabbed Nicky's hands and put them on his own head. Almost immediately the same thing happened to this boy that had happened to my Grandfather; he began to tremble as if a current were flowing through him. He fell to his knees, and the other boys stood around him, praying. It was like reliving a scene from the Book of Acts. In less than two minutes a new language was flowing from Roberto's lips."

In the related book Run Baby Run, Nicky Cruz describes his struggle to be filled with the Holy Spirit or to be Baptized with it.

Page 192:
"I didn't know how to pray except out loud and I got louder and louder. I would kneel at the altar and cry out to God, "Baptize me, baptize me, baptize me!" But nothing happened."

He gets baptized on page 196:
"Some thing moved in my soul. It was as though someone had turned on a faucet, slowly at first. Then I began to fill up."

Dwight L. Moody received the baptism years after becoming a minister (from the webpage: http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/holyspirit/baptism_spirit1.shtml):

"D.L. Moody was a successful minister but by his own admission later, he lacked the power in his ministry. One day two women came up to him after a service. They said,
"We have been praying for you."
"Why don't you pray for the people?" he asked.
"Because you need the power of the Spirit," they said.
"I need the power! Why," said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, "I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions.”

Moody also said that in a sense, he was satisfied. He was in a comfort zone. But these two praying women rocked the boat. They told him that they were praying for an anointing by the Holy Spirit for D.L. to have a special service to God. He could not get this off his mind and he said, “There came a great hunger in my soul. I did not know what it was and I began to cry out to God as never before. I felt I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service”.

After the great fire of Chicago, DL was working to raise money to rebuild a tabernacle. He said his heart was not into it because he kept crying out to God to fill him. He withdrew and prayed during a visit to New York to raise money and he cried that God would fill him with His Spirit. DL describes it this way:

“Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of the balance.”

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sermonindex

So are you saying that some Christians who have been truly regenerated and saved by the grace of God do not have the Holy Spirit in their lives? And that in order to have the Holy Spirit in their lives they must do so by way of works (asking for it and believing)? In other words they must earn it... by making the right decision, which would be deciding to ask God for it?

Does this not elevate man just a smidgen? In other words, if things are as you have interpretted scripture to say that they are... then you are a better child of God than someone else because you were smart enough to ask God for the Holy Spirit, and exercised more of your own conjured up faith in order to receive it.

Is this correct?

By the way, I'm not knocking The Cross and the Switchblade... but I'm only concerned about what the Bible says.

Krispy

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Christinyou

We don't receive salvation in parts and peaces. We get the whole at God's rebirthing His Son in us at conversion or if you like at regeneration by Justification. The only thing we receive in parts and peaces is the renewing of our mind to the Mind of Christ, Sanctification, to the wisdom God has made Christ unto us, 1 Cor 1:30,that is precept upon precept and line upon line. This is done by revelation of the Holy Spirit to the Mind of Christ which we "have" at salvation by believing God, that, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He died in our place and gives us new life in Himself, comforted and taught by revelation of the Holy Spirit "Parakleet"-Teacher. If we ask for more of the Holy Spirit, we are in error, we have all of Him, you cannot divide the person Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, in asking we are simply agreeing with the Word of God, that which we already have, it is like the garment we have in the closet, we have it, all we have to do is put it on.

In Christ: Phillip

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sermonindex

Well articulated, Phillip! Amen...

Krispy

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hmmhmm

God works it seems to me in scripture in different ways with different men (and women) some things are equal for all, salvation etc. But as for the Holy Spirit from my understanding some may receive "the fullness of the spirit" from their christian birth, some may "ask" for it later. By this i do not mean to separate christ from the holy spirit, I mean it as when we are saved we have christ, we have all of him and what he has done, yet there is a growing in him, growing of more christlike character and humility and love.

A greater separation from sin and worldliness. And from the word it seems many had a "second blessing" or whatever name we call it by, after salvation some had a second encounter that deepened their walk, their boldness in christ and their faith.

By this i also do not mean as some say that the second blessing means you will ALWAYS upon receiving this by faith speak in tongues or some other sure sign, you may if God gives you this gift or you may not. But still i am at this stage of my walk and understanding that there is available for all believers that has faith for a deeper work and this is Gods equipping us for his work through us in our lives.

God bless you and let us seek all to be more moved and filled with Him and His spirit.

brother christian

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twayneb

So are you saying that some Christians who have been truly regenerated and saved by the grace of God do not have the Holy Spirit in their lives? And that in order to have the Holy Spirit in their lives they must do so by way of works (asking for it and believing)? In other words they must earn it... by making the right decision, which would be deciding to ask God for it?

Does this not elevate man just a smidgen? In other words, if things are as you have interpretted scripture to say that they are... then you are a better child of God than someone else because you were smart enough to ask God for the Holy Spirit, and exercised more of your own conjured up faith in order to receive it.

Is this correct?

By the way, I'm not knocking The Cross and the Switchblade... but I'm only concerned about what the Bible says.

Krispy

Krispy: I can give you my best understanding on the issue. Someone mentioned that it is a controversial issue. Perhaps it can be.

I believe scripture clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is involved in the work of regeneration at salvation. I believe before salvation we are dead as far as our ability to relate to God spiritually. After regeneration we are now alive as far as our relationship with God through the Spirit is concerned. We have a lot of different terms we use in connection with this experience at salvation. We use terms such as "having the Holy Spirit" or "getting the Holy Spirit" or even "being filled with the Holy Spirit." I am not sure if all of our terminology really helps as there are often different meanings attached to these words according to different doctrinal leanings.

In the book of Acts we find 120 believers who spend nearly 50 days tarrying for some event during which they would be indued with power from on high. Now it is not as if the Holy Spirit had never been involved in the affairs of this earth before. The Holy Spirit of God was present at creation as He brooded over the waters and has been intimately involved with man ever since. So this is not the "coming to earth" of the third person of the Godhead for the very first time. We say the "outpouring of the Holy Spirit", but I am not sure that is really helpful terminology to some people.

We do find that these people were already believers, having put their faith in a dead, buried, and risen savior and His sacrifice for their righteousness. To me it begs the question, "If these people were already believers and if the Holy Spirit was not 'coming for the first time' then surely they were already 'filled' right?" Or is there something else going on here?

Paul asked a group of believers if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed. They were not sure what he was talking about but when he had laid hands on them they also received just as had happened in Acts 2. Again the question arises, "So did these people not "have the Holy Spirit" before this event? If not how is it that they are called believers?"

So you see the questions and the problems that certain phrases cause in the course of asking the questions.

Here is my understanding from scripture. There is a baptism in to Christ (salvation) in which there is a regeneration of the spirit and a opening of communion with God through the Holy Spirit. The person of the Holy Spirit is involved in this transaction absolutely. There is also a second baptism in the Holy Spirit. I agree with many that this baptism produces in the believer power, boldness, holiness, intimacy, gifts, etc. as we see in Acts, 1 Cor., etc. It seem scripturally to be subsequent to and separate from salvation as can be seen in the aforementioned examples from Acts. It was specifically promised by Jesus in John 14-17 or so.

Saying this does not demean Salvation, nor is it about man's effort. We repent and receive salvation not of our own works. We ask and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit not of our own works. But I can tell you from personal experience that this gift from God produces in a man such amazing things and that the Christian walk is attended to with so much more power and victory having received this baptism.

Don't know Krispy if that answers the question or not, but I hope it helps the discussion.

P
PassingThru

Phillip

Quote: We don't receive salvation in parts and peaces....If we ask for more of the Holy Spirit, we are in error, we have all of Him, you cannot divide the person Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit...

For that statement to be true it would mean that the Holy Spirit was absent from Jesus until the Holy Spirit descended upon him during his water baptism.

How could the Spirit refill that which was already full? I think the Holy Spirit can be received in different capacities. I expect the Holy Spirit was present in Jesus from birth, yet he received a specific anointing at the point of baptism which is probably linked to the His ministry that started at that point.

Personally I think anointing and spiritual gifts are linked directly to one's calling/ministry. If we are saved but not that interested in God's work (and the gifts that he provides for it) we cannot expect to hold an anointing equal to those that are.

I think it is important not to confuse salvation with specific Anointings, Spiritual Gifts, and Ministeries. The Holy Spirit is given to us upon salvation as a seal. That doesn't mean the same Spirit cannot 're-visit' us in a different capacity.

Note that in Acts the beginning of a Christian's ministry often began with the laying on of hands. God also intructed Moses to lay hands on Joshua to pass on the ministry.

1 Corinthians ch.12-14 deal with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many people write off the gifts using Chapter 13's conclusion that "Love is above all", however immediately after (14.1) Pauls instructs us to zealously seek after the the gifts with the aim of edifying the church. He is talking to believers here so there is obviously "something more".

On the topic of "Anointing by measure" also notice that Jesus stated that power had left him when the woman touched his cloak for healing.

PassingThru

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sermonindex

"This is a very controversial topic... but let me say that EVERY believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit and receives the Holy Spirit at conversion. There can be NO conversion without the Holy Spirit."

Yes, and what you just said above IS controversial.

Define conversion.

We always say that we should let the bible speak for itself. I have had conversations in the past about the very scripture that I am about to post. Many do everything they can to say it means something else or try to change the subject. Or they consult the Greek hoping it will say something other than what is being spoken.

We are KJV people, we put down most translations, yet when it comes to the wording in these verses, we are no different than those who read another translation/version, we don't like the wording, so lets consult the Greek.

Lets just accept it and repent of the fact that not all of our theology is as sound as we like to believe.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Acts 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

Here we have a people that have received the Gospel message HEARING and SEEING. The Gospel was believed, faith was ignited and miracles transformed lives.

Acts 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.

Ah conversion!?

Acts 8:12 when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

They had received the word of God.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet HE WAS FALLEN UPON NONE OF THEM: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon SAW that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given...

What did Simon see?

What did Simon see that convinced him that he should offer money for the power to which the Apostles possessed?

What did Simon see?

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Solomon101

May I humbly make a suggestion. Before more "opinions" are posted could I suggest actually doing a bit of research and then returning to the topic?

May I suggest going through the entirety of the New Testament and keep a log of each time these two phrases are mentioned-

1. The Spirit WITHIN
2. The Spirit UPON

You will find abundant references to each. However, you will also find that each has its own particular purpose and function. Both are critically important. However, to have water WITHIN me is not the same thing as having water UPON me.....but I do not wish to skew the research.

Also note the difference in FRUIT of the Spirit in contrast to GIFTS of the Spirit. Both are again critically important... but they are obviously NOT the same thing.

I challenge the SI posters to actually read the New Testament and do the research NOT looking to find scripture to defend a cherished point of view but rather to actually find truth... even if it contradicts your mostly deeply held beliefs. That is the only way to true knowledge, IMHO.

Blessings,

Solomon101

PS- the use of caps in this post is simply for emphasis on a particular thought. No "yelling" was intended

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sermonindex

After He rose, but before He ascended to Heaven ...

Joh 20:20-22 And saying this, He showed them His hands and side. Then seeing the Lord, the disciples rejoiced. Then Jesus said to them again, Peace to you. As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.
And saying this,
*He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.*

~~~

After He rose but before He ascended, He commands them to wait in Jerusalem until He send the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ...


Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send forth the promise of My Father on you. But you sit in the city of Jerusalem until you are clothed with power from on high.

Act 1:4,5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

~~~


After He Baptised them in the Holy Spirit - at Pentecost ...


Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


It looks like maybe just the title of the thread is confusing?

C
Christinyou

PassingThru wrote:

Quote: """For that statement to be true it would mean that the Holy Spirit was absent from Jesus until the Holy Spirit descended upon him during his water baptism."""

This baptism had nothing to do with the Spirit in Christ. This was to show that His righteousness was perfect and His Sonship true and Faithful to His Father who was God.

Matthew 3:15-17 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

"Upon" Him, not in Him. As witnessed by the rest of the Trinity, God the Holy Spirit like a dove and The Voice of God from heaven. """This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.""" Jesus did not have to ask for this.

This witness of His righteousness and His ability and capacity to begin His work on this earth, The Father had given Him before the foundation of the world. EPH 1:4. Slain before the foundation and from the foundation.
Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Cross, The Cross, Nothing I cling to but the Cross. As Paul said, "Preach nothing but Christ and Him Crucified.

In Christ: Phillip

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sermonindex

1. The Spirit WITHIN
2. The Spirit UPON

The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament would come UPON certain individuals to carry out whatever it was that He willed in their lives.

He was never in them because men were not yet cleansed until after the resurrection when Christ would ascend and enter that heavenly temple and make restitution for all things.

The Old Testament ended at the death of Jesus on the cross. Matthew Mark Luke and John and the biography of Jesus were still under the law.

The promise of the Holy Spirit being given in the New Testament is the promise that He would be IN them, not upon them.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Since Jesus is our God, here He was speaking of Himself (His Spirit) when He said, "for He dwelleth with you".

The declaration of this entering in is spoken of by Peter when he said concerning the promise that should come,

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The promise is the Holy Ghost which comes to those that ask Him for it.

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ASK him?

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

We need to stop looking at the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a Pentecostal/Charismatic phenomenon. True, they messed it up for a lot people who might have once looked into it.

But that shouldn't stop the eager seeker to seek on His own without being apart of that. We need people that are filled with the Holy Ghost.

Why?

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

Because the work of the Lord requires it. Within 40 years just a handful of men turned the known world upside down.

There is no sense in saying that we are filled with the Spirit when there is nothing to show for it.

We say the most important virtues is the fruit of the Spirit. That is true, but it's not our fruit, it's the fruit of the Spirit, it's His work shining out through us.

M
murrcolr

Quote:- We need people that are filled with the Holy Ghost.

Your right we do need people who have beend filled with the Holy Spirit. But those people need to have been brought to the place of death that HE might reign in His fullness so Jesus Christ is able to live and walk in you.

---------------------------------

Ten shekils and a Shirt by Paris Riedhead

But I feel a personal need and a personal lack, I need to be baptized of the Holy Ghost, I need to be filled with the Spirit, and someone told me God done something for you. And I wanted you to help me.”

I looked at the fellow and you know what he looked like? Me. Just looked like me. I just saw in him everything that was in me, you thought ... You thought I was going to say “me before”. No, listen to your heart. If you’ve ever seen yourself you’ll know that you’re never gonna be anything else than you were. For in me in my flesh, there is no good thing.

He's like a fellow driving up in a big Cadillac you know, to someone standing at a filling station saying “Fill her up, Bud, with the highest octane you got.” Well, that’s the way it looked, he wanted power for his program. And God is not going to be a means to anyone’s end.
I said, “I’m awfully sorry, I don’t think I can help you." He said “Why?” "I don’t think you’re ready.

Well suppose, you consider yourself coming up with a Cadillac, you’ve talked about your program, you’ve talked about your radio, you’ve talked about your Sunday school and church. Very good. You’ve done wonderfully well without the power of the Holy Spirit.” That’s what the Chinese Christian said you know when he got back to China. “What impressed you most about America?” He said, “The great things Americans can accomplish without God.”

And he’d accomplished a great deal, admittedly, without God. And now he’s wanting something, power, to accomplish his end even further. I said “No. No. You’re gonna, you're sitting behind the wheel and you’re saying to God, 'Give me power so I can go.' It won't work, you gotta slide over." But I knew that rascal, 'cause I knew me. I said, “No it’ll never do. You gotta get in the back seat.” And I could see him leaning over and grabbing the wheel. “No,” I said. “It’ll never do in the back seat.”

I said “Before God’ll do anything for you, you know what you gotta do?” And he said, “What?” I said, “You gotta get out of the car, take the keys around, open up the trunk lid, hand the keys to the Lord Jesus, get inside the trunk, slam the lid down, whisper through the keyhole, ‘Lord, look, fill her up with anything You want and You drive, it’s up to You from now on.’” That’s why so many people, you know, do not enter into the fullness of Christ because they want to become a Levite with ten shekels and a shirt. They’ve been serving Micah but they think if they had the power of the Holy Ghost they could serve the tribe of Dan. It will never work, never work.

There’s only one reason for God meeting you, and that’s to bring you to the place where, in repentance, you’ve been pardoned for His glory, and in victory, you’ve been brought to the place of death that He might reign and in His fullness Jesus Christ is able to live and walk in you. And your attitude is the attitude of the Lord Himself, who said, “I could do nothing of Myself." I can’t speak of myself. I don’t make plans for myself. My only reason for being is the glory of God in Jesus Christ.

L
Lysa

twayneb wrote 2011/10/17:
Saying this does not demean Salvation, nor is it about man's effort. We repent and receive salvation not of our own works. We ask and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit not of our own works. But I can tell you from personal experience that this gift from God produces in a man such amazing things and that the Christian walk is attended to with so much more power and victory having received this baptism.

Travis,

I'm just reading this excellent explanation that I hope everyone read even if they disagreed with it, it will surely give them a better understanding.

His post is on the 2nd page, 4th post from the top.

God bless you,
Lisa

S
sermonindex

Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son ask for a fish,will give him a snake instead? Or if be ask for an egg will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, kniw how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him.

It never ceases to amaze me how something so simple can be debated 9 days to Sunday. God has promised to give the Holy Spirit who will ask but with the faith of a child. John the Baptist testified that Jesus gives the Spirit without limit as he speaks the words of God. Paul asked the Galatians if they recieved the Spirit by believing what they heard or observing the law. The implication was one recieved the Spirit by faith.

In those parts of the world where God is moving the believers have child like faith to believe that God ei give his Spirit who will but ask him. But our theologocal and exegetical arrogance dismisses the work of the Spirit to a bygone era. Praise God the Cbineese, Iranians, Gypsies and other people groups have not gotten this message yet. For truly in their simplicity they believe that God is still doing great thongs.


Dear God with the faith of a child I ask for your Holy Spirit. Please baptize me afresh.with his power. For I pray this in Jesus name.

Blaine

S
Sree

The reason there is a confusion here is posters here are more concerned about going to heaven rather than living a Goldy life on earth. I dont know whether you need Holy spirit to go to heaven. But I know for sure that you need Holy spirit to experience heaven on this earth. The problem with most of the Christians today is their only goal is to go to heaven after death. So they accept Jesus as their savior and they believe that their past sins are cleansed. They again live a sinful life and whenever they get remained of their sins they pray for the blood of Jesus to cleanse their sins. More than 95% Christians are like this today. I don't know whether they will go to heaven, but I know for sure that they will never experience the power of Holy spirit because they don't want it and they don't want a over comer life.
The very first promise of New testament is 'Name this baby Jesus and he will save people from their sins'. This promise is true and should be the basis. But what sins does Jesus save us from? He saves us from 3 kinds of sin.
1. Past sins - by his blood ( by his death as a sacrifice for our sins).
2. Present sins (power of Sin) - by his life he saves us from this power of sin. He rose again after 3 days to be glorified and also send us the holy spirit to save us from power of Sin.
3. Presence of Sin - Jesus will save us from the presence of Sin when he returns to earth for 2nd coming.

So you don't need Holy spirit to save you from the 1st sin, which is your past sin. But if you want to experience heaven on this EARTH by living the life of Jesus then you need Holy spirit. The reason many don't have it because they don't need it. Simple.

LET US NOT HAVE ANY WORTHLESS ARGUMENT ON WHETHER A PERSON WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT WILL GO TO HEAVEN OR NOT. GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, BUT LIVING LIKE JESUS IS CHRISTIANITY. A PERSON WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE A LIFE OF JESUS.

N
njhoover

sree God has given you wisdom on this issue. Thanks for sharing it.

S
sermonindex

"Your right we do need people who have beend filled with the Holy Spirit. But those people need to have been brought to the place of death that HE might reign in His fullness so Jesus Christ is able to live and walk in you."

A process that is not done overnight. It would be nice if it was.

Paul tells us that we need to come to the realization that we are dead. We need to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God.

Everyone here longs for that, but God gives the Holy Spirit before all this takes place.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

If we have to wait until we are good enough, or dead enough then the cross is of no value to us. The cross tells us that we are dead because Christ was the man that should die, the second Adam thee man for all men everywhere died for all. All men are dead to sin. Some Christians know it, some Christians don't. Though the world has no light on the matter, the fact of the matter is that they have been crucified with Christ, they need an ear to hear the gospel for them to see what Christ has done and believe it.

The Holy Ghost is come to confirm the work of what Christ has done and bring it into an effect in a man's life and to bring forth the fruits thereof, thus pleasing God.

When the power of God descends (and it will), the debate whether He empowers man with the Holy Ghost after salvation or before will matter little.

S
sermonindex

sree... allow me to respond to what you wrote. I agree with some of it, but there are parts that I either have misunderstood what you were trying to say... or I simply dont agree:

The reason there is a confusion here is posters here are more concerned about going to heaven rather than living a Goldy life on earth.

Are you sure? How do you know this? Dont you think thats quite a judgemental thing to say about people you've never met.

They again live a sinful life and whenever they get remained of their sins they pray for the blood of Jesus to cleanse their sins. More than 95% Christians are like this today.

Actually, according to the Bible, the reason they continue to live a sinful lifestyle is because they were never truly saved to begin with... therefore they are not Christians. (There is a difference between a perpetually sinful lifestyle, and a true Christian who sins but struggles not to)

I don't know whether they will go to heaven...

I think I do! Why? Because the Bible tells me so. Start at 1 Corinthians 6 and chain reference your way around the New Testament. (The answer is "NO!" ... a "christian" who lives a perpetually sinful lifestyle with no signs of repentence in their life... will not go to heaven... because they are not saved!)

but I know for sure that they will never experience the power of Holy spirit because they don't want it and they don't want a over comer life.

True, they dont want it... I agree. But the reason they dont want it is because they are NOT saved, and therefore it is not theirs to have. They HATE God... why would they even desire the Holy Spirit?

The very first promise of New testament is 'Name this baby Jesus and he will save people from their sins'.

I need some clarification on this one... I think I know what you are saying, but just want to make sure you are NOT saying that the promise was "IF you name the baby Jesus... He will save people from their sins." They were commanded to name Him Jesus. He was going to save people, period. It wasnt contingent upon whether they named Him Jesus or not. I dont think thats what you are saying, but the way you worded that, I just want to make sure.

But what sins does Jesus save us from? He saves us from 3 kinds of sin.
1. Past sins - by his blood ( by his death as a sacrifice for our sins).
2. Present sins (power of Sin) - by his life he saves us from this power of sin. He rose again after 3 days to be glorified and also send us the holy spirit to save us from power of Sin.
3. Presence of Sin - Jesus will save us from the presence of Sin when he returns to earth for 2nd coming.

I agree with this.

So you don't need Holy spirit to save you from the 1st sin, which is your past sin.

The Holy Spirit does not save you from ANY of your sins, past, present or future... the BLOOD OF JESUS saves you. His sacrifice is what paid your price. You are incorrect on this point. The Holy Spirit empowers us to live the Christian life... but the BLOOD OF JESUS is what saves us. Not to be rude but you are waaaay off base here, if I understand you correctly.

The reason many don't have it because they don't need it. Simple.

No... the reason many dont have it is because they have never truly been saved. Oh they need it! But they are not saved, so they dont want it... and cant have it anyway. They need to repent and put their faith in Christ. THEN they will have the Holy Spirit.

LET US NOT HAVE ANY WORTHLESS ARGUMENT ON WHETHER A PERSON WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT WILL GO TO HEAVEN OR NOT.

Well, there is no argument... you are correct. This is like asking can a man get married without a bride? They cant go to heaven without the Holy Spirit because they need to get saved in order to have both! Get saved... and you have both!

GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, BUT LIVING LIKE JESUS IS CHRISTIANITY.

I dont get the point. Heaven is the end result of Christianity. Living the Christian life is called "sanctification"... we are being sanctified as we walk out our faith. Getting to heaven is called "glorification". BOTH are equal components in salvation.

A PERSON WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE A LIFE OF JESUS.

OK... correct, but let me finish this for you:

A PERSON WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE A LIFE OF JESUS... BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO JESUS IS... BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SAVED!

Krispy


M
murrcolr

Quote:- A process that is not done overnight. It would be nice if it was.

Paul tells us that we need to come to the realization that we are dead. We need to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God.

To have life in Himself is the prerogative of God alone, and of the Son, to whom the Father hath also given it. To seek life, not in itself, but in God, is the highest honour of the creature. To live in and to himself is the folly and guilt of sinful man; to live to God in Christ, the blessedness of the believer. To deny, to hate, to forsake, to lose his own life, such is the secret of the life of faith. "I live, yet NOT I, but Christ liveth in me"; "NOT I, but the grace of God which is with me": this is the testimony of each one who has found out what it is to give up his own life, and to receive instead the blessed life of Christ within us. There is no path to true life, to abiding in Christ, than that which our Lord went before us-through death.

At the first commencement of the Christian life, but few see this. In the joy of pardon, they feel constrained to live for Christ, and trust with the help of God to be enabled to do so. They are as yet ignorant of the terrible enmity of the flesh against God, and its absolute refusal in the believer to be subject to the law of God. They know not yet that nothing but death, the absolute surrender to death of all that is of nature, will suffice, if the life of God is to be manifested in them with power. But bitter experience of failure soon teaches them the insufficiency of what they have yet known of Christ's power to save, and deep bear t-longings are awakened to know Him better. He lovingly points them to His cross. He tells them that as there, in the faith of His death as their substitute, they found their title to life, so there they shall enter into its fuller experience too. He asks them if they are indeed willing to drink of the cup of which He drank-to be crucified and to die with Him. He teaches them that in Him they are indeed already crucified and deadall unknowing, at conversion they became partakers of His death. But what they need now is to give a full and intelligent consent to what they received ere they understood it, by an act of their own choice to will to die with Christ.

This demand of Christ's is one of unspeakable solemnity. Many a believer shrinks back from it. He can hardly understand it. He has become so accustomed to a low life of continual stumbling, that he hardly desires, and still less expects, deliverance. Holiness, perfect conformity to Jesus, unbroken fellowship with His love,can scarcely be counted distinct articles of his creed. Where there is not intense longing to be kept to the utmost from sinning, and to be brought into the closest possible union with the Saviour, the thought of being crucified with Him can find no entrance. The only impression it makes is that of suffering and shame: such a one is content that Jesus bore the cross, and so won for him the crown he hopes to wear. How different the light in which the believer who is really seeking to abide fully in Christ looks upon it. Bitter experience has taught him how, both in the matter of entire surrender and simple trust, his greatest enemy in the abiding life, is SELF. Now it refuses to give up its will; then again, by its working, it hinders God's work. Unless this life of self, with its willing and working, be displaced by the life of Christ, with His willing and working, to abide in Him will be impossible. And then comes the solemn question from Him who died on the cross: "Are you ready to give up self to the death?" You yourself, the living person born of God, are already in me dead to sin and alive to God; but are you ready now, in the power of this death, to mortify your members, to give up self entirely to its death of the cross, to be kept there until it be wholly destroyed? The question is a heart-searching one. Ain I prepared to say that the old self shall no longer have a word to say; that it shall not be allowed to have a single thought, however natural-not a single feeling, however gratifying-not a single wish or work, however right?

Is this in very deed what He requires? Is not our nature God's handiwork, and may not our natural powers be sanctified to His service? They may and must indeed. But perhaps you have not yet seen how the only way they can be sanctified is that they be taken from under the power of self, and brought under the power of the life of Christ. Think not that this is a work that you can do, because you earnestly desire it, and are indeed one of His redeemed ones. No, there is no way to the altar of consecration but through death. As you yielded yourself a sacrifice on God's altar as one alive from the dead (Rom.6:13, 7:1), so each power of your nature-each talent, gift, possession, that is really to be holiness to the Lord-must be separated from the power of sin and self, and laid on the altar to be consumed by the fire that is ever burning there. It is in the mortifying, the slaying of self, that the wonderful powers with which God has fitted you to serve Him, can be set free for a complete surrender to God, and offered to Him to be accepted, and sanctified, and used. And though, as long as you are in the flesh, there is no thought of being able to say that self is dead, yet when the life of Christ is allowed to take full possession, self can be so kept in its crucifixion place, and under its sentence of death, that it shall have ho dominion over you, not for a single moment. Jesus Christ becomes your second self.

Believer! would you truly and fully abide in Christ, prepare yourself to part for ever from self, and not to allow it, even for a single moment, to have aught to say in your inner life. If you are willing to come entirely away out of self, and to allow Jesus Christ to become your life within you, inspiring all your thinking, feeling, acting, in things temporal and spiritual, He is ready to undertake the charge. In the fullest and widest sense the word life ever can have, He will be your life, extending His interest and influence to each one, even the minutest, of the thousand things that make up your daily life. To do this He asks but one thing: Come away out of self and its life, abide in Christ and the Christ life, and Christ will be your life. The power of His holy presence will cast out the old life.

To this end give up self at once and for ever. If you have never yet dared to do it, for fear you might fail of your engagement, do it now, in view of the promise Christ gives you that His life will take the place of the old life. Try and realize that though self is not dead, you are indeed dead to self. Self is still strong and living, but it has no power over you. You, your renewed nature-you, your new self, begotten again in Jesus death in Christ has freed you completely from the control of self: it has no power over you, except as you, in ignorance, or unwatchfulness, or unbelief, consent to yield to its usurped authority. Come and accept by faith simply and heartily the glorious position you have in Christ. As one who, in Christ, has a life dead to self, as one who is freed from the dominion of self, and has received His divine life to take the place of self, to be the animating and inspiring principle of your life, venture boldly to plant the foot upon the neck of this enemy of yours and your Lord's. Be of good courage, only believe; fear not to take the irrevocable step, and to say that you have once for all given up self to the death for which it has been crucified in Christ (Rom.6:6). And trust Jesus the Crucified One to hold self to the cross, and to fill its place in you with His own blessed resurrection life.

In this faith, abide in Christ! Cling to Him; rest on Him; hope on Him. Daily renew your consecration; daily accept afresh your position as ransomed from your tyrant, and now in turn made a conqueror. Daily look with holy fear on the enemy, self, struggling to get free from the cross, seeking to allure you into giving it some little liberty, or else ready to deceive you by its profession of willingness now to do service to Christ. Remember, self seeking to serve God is more dangerous than self refusing obedience. Look upon it with holy fear, and hide yourself in Christ: in Him alone is your safety. Abide thus in Him; He has promised to abide in you. He will teach you to be humble and watchful. He will teach you to be happy and trustful. Bring every interest of your life, every power of your nature, all the unceasing flow of thought, and will, and feeling, that makes up life, and trust Him to take the place that self once filled so easily and so naturally. Jesus Christ will indeed take possession of you and dwell in you; and in the restfulness and peace and grace of the new life you shall have unceasing joy at the wondrous exchange that has been made-the corning out of self to abide in Christ alone.

NOTE

In his work on Sanctification, Marshall, in the twelfth chapter, on "Holiness through faith alone," puts with great force the danger in which the Christian is of seeking sanctification in the power of the flesh, with the help of Christ, instead of looking for it to Christ alone, and receiving it from Him by faith. He reminds us how there are two natures in the believer, and so two ways of seeking holiness, according as we allow the principles of the one or other nature to guide us. The one is the carnal way, in which we put forth our utmost efforts and resolutions, trusting Christ to help us in doing so. The other the spiritual way, in which, as those who have died, and can do nothing, our one care is to receive Christ day by day, and at every step to let Him live and work in us.

"Despair of purging the flesh or natural man of its sinful lusts and inclinations, and of practising holiness by your willing sand resolving to do the best that lieth in your own power, and trusting on the grace of God and Christ to help you in such resolutions and endeavours. Rather resolve to trust on Christ to work in you to will and to do by His own power according to His own good pleasure. They that are convinced of their own sin and misery do commonly first think to tame the flesh, and to subdue and root out its lusts, and to make their corrupt nature to be better-natured and inclined to holiness by theirstruggling and wrestling with it; and if they can but bring their hearts to a full purpose and resolution to do the best that lieth in them, they hope that by such a resolution they shall be able to achieve great enterprises in the conquests of their lusts and performance of the most difficult duties. It is the great work of some zealous divines in their preachings and writings to stir up people to this resolution, wherein they place the chiefest turningpoint from sin to godliness. And they think that this is not contrary to the life of faith, because they trust in the grace of God through Christ to help them in all such resolutions and endeavours. Thus they endeavour to reform their old state, and to be made perfect in the flesh, instead of putting it off and walking according to the new state in Christ. They trust on low carnal thins for holiness, and upon the acts of their own will, their purposes, resolutions, and endeavours, instead of Christ; and they trust to Christ to help them in this carnal way; whereas true faith would teach them that they are nothing, and that they do but labour in vain."

And not in Self Andrew Murrau


https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1766

S
Sree

Krispy,


So you don't need Holy spirit to save you from the 1st sin, which is your past sin.

The Holy Spirit does not save you from ANY of your sins, past, present or future... the BLOOD OF JESUS saves you. His sacrifice is what paid your price. You are incorrect on this point. The Holy Spirit empowers us to live the Christian life... but the BLOOD OF JESUS is what saves us. Not to be rude but you are waaaay off base here, if I understand you correctly.

I think the main difference between both of us is this, the power of the blood of Jesus. I believe that the blood of Jesus has power to cleanse all my sins. No doubt about it. But to prevent me from committing sins in future, I cannot rely on the power of his blood but I need to rely on Holy Spirit whom he has sent when he was glorified.
Revelation 12 -Verse 11-
They triumphed over him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
So it is not just the blood of Jesus but also the testimony of our life which comes from obedience to Holy Spirit only helps us to overcome Satan.
So when a person is born again by which I mean that
1. he/she accepts Jesus as lord
2. believes that his blood has cleansed all his/her sins
3. repented from old life
is justified by God. But to be saved from the power of Sin a person has to accept Holy Spirit and learn to be obedient to the spirit which comes from brokenness (poor in spirit).

I will answer you in subsequent messages.

S
Sree

The reason there is a confusion here is posters here are more concerned about going to heaven rather than living a Goldy life on earth.

Are you sure? How do you know this? Dont you think thats quite a judgemental thing to say about people you've never met.


I did not judge anyone, but I just felt that the conversation was more about the need of Holy spirit to go to heaven instead of real Christianity which is a way of life of Jesus. I meant that the main concern of posters in this thread (not in their personal life) was entering Heaven with or without Holy Spirit. I wanted them to think about the life of Jesus which is superior to any heaven we may enter. May be I did not put it right, my apology for them. I do not consider it wrong to be concerned about going to Heaven also. Each of us have different driving factors. Also I thank you for taking time to understand my post, I have great respect for your understand of scripture.

GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, BUT LIVING LIKE JESUS IS CHRISTIANITY.

I don't get the point. Heaven is the end result of Christianity. Living the Christian life is called "sanctification"... we are being sanctified as we walk out our faith. Getting to heaven is called "glorification". BOTH are equal components in salvation.

Again we differ here widely. To be clear, I do not reject the importance of Glorification, it is very important but personally I have accepted Jesus in my life not to be glorified after death but to do the will of God on this earth.
Jesus said Luke 17-21- the Kingdom of God is already within you. Which means you don't need to wait for entering it but you can start experiencing it here. I give more importance to experiencing heaven on this earth like Jesus did (sleeping in a boat caught in storm etc). I believe I can do that with the power of the same Holy Spirit that enabled Jesus to do that. Jesus was tempted in all areas like me and he did not fall but rejoiced because he had Holy Spirit (Hebrews) which is also promised to me.

S
sermonindex

sree... thanx for the clarification. I understand better where you are coming from and it makes more sense now. Thanx for not getting argumenative. Theres no reason why we cant just discuss it like we are! Love it...

I believe that the blood of Jesus has power to cleanse all my sins. No doubt about it. But to prevent me from committing sins in future, I cannot rely on the power of his blood but I need to rely on Holy Spirit whom he has sent when he was glorified.

I agree with that... I would add (and I am sure you agree) that your sins in the future were covered by the blood, correct? Yes, the Holy Spirit enables you to resist sin. But when you do fall and sin, your sins are already covered. We do have to confess it, and He is faithful to forgive... but it's already been covered.

Krispy

N
narrowpath

Everybody filled with the Holy Spirit understands what it means to be filled with the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Luke 24:49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


I can still recall how I got filled with Holy Spirit in 1984 a couple of days after they casted out a number of demons out of me.

They prayed for me to be filled with the Holy Spirit and laid hands on me. I was a babe in Christ and did not quite know what it was about, but this I wanted God to dwell in me and fill me after all these years of being the devil's slave. Not long after the I was filled with the Spirit.
It was the most overwhelming experience in my life. It was like a stream of holy golden oil poured out on me from above to the overflow. It was so strong that I asked God to spare me because I could not take more. At that time I understood that I was a child of God.
I had subsequent fillings in the next couple of days. Once I was standing in a bus when God's Spirit came over me again and someone standing next to me asked me how come that I was radiating light and that I most be a holy man.

The relevant scriptures were already quoted here.

Are you satisfied with your sins forgiven only or do you want to walk like Jesus walked on earth?

Are you fed up being defeated by sin and displaying ugly character traits?
Are you hungry for the reality of God's presence in your life?
Are you moaning your lack of grace in your daily conversation?
Are your prayers burdensome and scripture truths only head knowledge?
Are the blessings of God a mere drizzle rather than stream of living water?

P
PassingThru

Phillip responded:

"Upon" Him, not in Him. As witnessed by the rest of the Trinity, God the Holy Spirit like a dove and The Voice of God from heaven. """This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.""" Jesus did not have to ask for this.

A very valid point. I hadn't thought of the differences between 'upon' and 'in'. I will need to look at this with more time.

I would still hold there are dispensations of the Spirit other than the initial infilling though, regardless of whether they are 'upon' or 'within'.

Some examples:-

In Acts 8 born again, in-filled Christians received the Holy Spirit through the placing on of hands by the disciples.

Acts 14.1 urges born again Christians to seek for the gifts. The preceding chapters make it clear that it is the Spirit that distributes these. I expect this seeking also involves asking.

As someone already mentioned, Jesus breathed the Holy Ghost upon his disciplines ordering them to receive, and then told them to wait in Jerusalem for the power from above.

God bless
"PassingThru"

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