neemia
Do you still believe in the speaking in tongues?
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Speaking in tongues
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sermonindex
I do, I do not see anything in scripture to suggest it ceased with the apostles. However, the writings of the church leaders in the 2md & 3rd centuries do suggest there was a dramatic decrease in tongues.
Now, I believe most of what we see in the church especially in America and other western countries in regards to tongues is foolishness. But I believe there is a legitimate gift of tongues. I do not believe in a "heavenly prayer language" because that is not found in scripture.
Tongues are not given to every believer, and tongues are not the initial sign of being "baptised by the Holy Spirit". Paul, when arguing that there are different gifts for different purposes, all given by the Holy Spirit according to His purposes… he says “Do all speak in tongues?”, and contextually the answer is obviously “No.”
Those Christians who claim to speak in tongues are not more spiritual or mature or special than those who do not. I’ve known of some very hideous people who “speak in tongues” (Benny Hinn and Todd Bentley), and I’ve known of some saintly people who never have. (Billy Graham has never spoken in tongues, neither did Charles Spurgeon)
Some are going to want to argue with me on these points. Don’t waste your time, I know all the arguments back and forth… this is where I landed on this topic, and there is grace enough for other thoughts on it. I could be completely wrong about this, and so could you.
So there ya go.
Krispy
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mguldner
Speaking in tongues is an active gift of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is not a Sign of Holy Spirit baptism as many Pentecostal claim but it is a gift given to some. The signs of the Holy Spirit should be the Fruits of the Spirit.
I take a fairly strong stance on this because growing up as a Pentecostal I fell victim to the social pressure of "Speaking in tongues" and so gave simply spoke jibberish to be accepted. This still goes on today and people fail to look at the inner man. Now I don't ask, do I speak in tongues of men and angels? but Do I speak with a controled tongue of faith, hope and love. This is not to say that everyone that speaks is tongues is doing it out of social obligation or falsity because I have meet many who spoke in tongues and their life was full of the fruits of the Spirit. Likewise I have met many who didn't speak in tongues yet still showed the same fruits of the Spirit without the speaking in tongues experience.
Should the Lord bless me with the gift I would take it gratefully but the Lord has blessed me with other things which He has me use for His Glory.
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sermonindex
Amen, bro... good word.
Krispy
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mguldner
Amen to you too bro,
When I came to this conclusion I came under fire for saying such craziness that was "unbiblical." I was really uncertain if I was right or wrong but the more I studied the Word the more I couldn't deny this belief. Brother Zac Poonen was somebody I really enjoyed listening to on the subject because I finally found someone who was greatly experienced in the scripture that taught the same thing. For a while it was like I was the one on crazy pills and everyone else was normal, but God also taught me in that time He is not always in the "normal way of things" that society and tradition push on us.
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Enochh
mgulder......being on crazy pills aint always a bad thing...:)
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neemia
Yes. A person who is filled with God's spirit will have the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
In the Eastern countries, I had seen the speaking in tongues more than in the western side. Most of those people are Godly people.
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Lysa
I believe in all the gifts of the Spirit in operation in the church today! I use this gift when I pray and when I lay hands on and pray for other people.
Allowing the gift of tongues to operate in my life is like breathing air, it comes naturally! And I praise God for every bit it. To God all the glory!!
*How do I see it?*
God gave the gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) to the church before they could make a theology of it; and today man gets so caught up in the theology of it all that they won't accept the gifts that God has given them.
God bless,
Lisa
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Sree
Speaking in tongues is a gift of Holy Spirit. It is true but it has to be used in public only if there is an interpreter. Else use it in your private prayers. You get gifts when you purchase something worthy from a shop. The same way the holyspirit gives you gifts when you receive it. The gift is not the main thing but what you purchased is the main thing. So the filling of spirit which should be reflected in a godly life is more important than the free gift that you get with it. Also the presence of a gift does not mean a person is still filled. God does not take back his gifts just like how we do not take the gifts that we give to others. A true man of women of God will never advertise their gifts if they did they either lost their anointing or they have fake gift.
So simply saying that I pray in tongues in front of others by laying hands is not tongues at all.
Gifts are given to people who are parts of a body of Christ. If you are not a part of a body and you have an unsubmitting spirit then I wont believe that you speak in tongues.
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mikey2
The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the doorway to the "deeper life." It is the beginning not the "END."
People camp out there and never move on, but it is given so that you will be Jesus' disciples with bold conviction and real love for others.
Don't waste it.
Mike
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sermonindex
Yes. A person who is filled with God's spirit will have the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Umm... there is a difference between the "fruits of the Spirit" and "spiritual gifts".
God gave the gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) to the church before they could make a theology of it; and today man gets so caught up in the theology of it all that they won't accept the gifts that God has given them.
I believe it was the Apostle Paul who delivered the theology of it... just sayin'...
You make it sound like anyone who loves and studies theology is incapable of exercising spiritual gifts or is against them, and that simply is not the case. Thats a mischaracterization.
It's not theology that quenches the Spirit. If that were true then Paul was a Spirit quencher.
People confuse theology with legalism.
The reason why the "church" is in the shape it's in is NOT because of too much theology, but because of a lack of theology and sound doctrine.
Krispy
Krispy
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twayneb
Given the topic of the thread I thought I would include an account of a recent event. The 14 year old daughter of a friend of mine recently went on a missions trip to the Dominican Republic. She had previously received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. She is somewhat shy about social interactions where she does not know the people she is talking to as most 14 year old girls seem to be. She was on the street with her group when they encountered a man in need of healing in his back. Many bilingual teens were following them hoping to be paid to interpret so she asked one of them to interpret and, against her own human nature, laid hands on the man to pray for him. She said she had not prayed a sentence or two when she felt the anointing of the Holy Spirit and began to pray in tongues. When she finished she opened her eyes and saw the man and the interpreter staring at her wide eyed. She asked what was the matter. The interpreter told her, "You just prayed for this man's back to be healed in perfect, fluent Spanish and we both understood every word you said." She had no clue what she said and knows almost no Spanish at all.
Praise God for the gifts of the Spirit.
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neemia
Great example. Same thing happened to my grandfather. After a prayer, someone approached him and told him, "You prayed so beautiful in the German language." He had no idea he prayed in German.
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neemia
@KrispyKrittr
I know. I didn't say they are the same :)
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dietolive
I would agree dear Brother
The same Spirit that inspired Paul's theology inspires the Spiritual Gifts too. They are always in complete agreement, (Theology and Spiritual Gifts), because the Author of both is the one and the same Spirit.
Consider the apostle:
I recall that Paul was a brilliant intellect; from a rich and cosmopolitan city. His father must have been wealthy, and he was evidently brought up well-to-do, as is evident from his being "born" with the privileged status of "Roman Citizenship."
Furthermore, with is family's connections, he must have received the best education available, both from the Greeks and from the Jews.
And then, when Jesus got a hold of him, he had to give up all of his attainments and every bit of his prestige. But one thing he did keep was his mind, and God would use every bit of it in Paul's later ministry.
The same apostle who was mighty in word, who was mighty in theology, was mighty also in the Gifts. And he taught us that the gifts are given to all believers, individually, as the Holy Spirit chooses:
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"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." I Corinthians 12:12-13
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From I Corinthians 12:12-13, we see that all true believers have already been baptized by the Spirit, and yet the Scripture above prove that all do not speak with tongues:
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"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." I Corinthians 12:7-11
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The apostle tells us all to first desire the "more excellent way", which is "LOVE", or as it is elsewhere called: "the Fruits of the Spirit", (for we are promised every one of them), and rather submissively wait upon the Lord, and accept whatever Gift He may decide to give us, trusting in His infinite and benign wisdom to give what is best suited for each of us.
Be well,
Doug
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rufnrust
Amen Lisa
Ruf
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sermonindex
I beg to differ. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. The church abandoned the Holy Spirit when they turned to men called the 'church fathers' for their life. The church became an organization, not the organism she was in Acts. The living, dynamic church became a dead institution of religion. Ecept for a few bright spots which were snuffed out the church was dead.
We see in other parts of the world a vibrant faith that burns bright for Christ. What we have in America is a dead church that theology has killed. What do you think cessation is? A desd theology to kill the Spirit. We got correct theology and doctrine coming out the wazoo. But ain't got no power.
Blaine
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sermonindex
Twayneb… excellent account. I have read of similar accounts from missionaries around the world. That is the gift of tongues that we see in Acts 2. We also see it elsewhere when they “spoke in tongues and prophesied”, which simply means that they declared the truth… the word. They were not standing there prophesying the future or something like that, that would not make any sense. No, they were declaring the truth about Jesus in an earthly language.
Krispy
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sermonindex
We see in other parts of the world a vibrant faith that burns bright for Christ. What we have in America is a dead church that theology has killed. What do you think cessation is? A desd theology to kill the Spirit. We got correct theology and doctrine coming out the wazoo. But ain't got no power.
Acutally... with Biblical illiteracy at an all time high, and Biblical ignorance at an all time high... how you can believe that the church is dead because of an over emphasis on theology is beyond my comprehension.
One of the gifts of the Spirit that Paul says is much more important than tongues is "teaching". And all of Pauls letters were theological thesis.
Granted and agreed, knowledge without love is dead. No argument there. But the church is dead because it's full of so-called "love"... but no truth!
With commands such as "study to show thyself approved" all over the NT I dont know how we can ignore it and say theology and sound doctrine is not important. Read 1&2 Timothy and Titus.
Read Romans...
Krispy
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dietolive
Amen Brother Krispy. This is wisdom.
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sermonindex
This from Monergism.com:
Why is Biblical Theology Important?
Biblical theology is an important discipline for several reasons; first, it helps us to determine what themes and truths of scriptures are really important, and why. As we seek to understand how the scriptures naturally unfold, and how its themes are developed and grow ever more mature, we start to realize what's truly being emphasized. If we relied on systematic theology alone, we might come to know many truths about angels and men and sin and redemption, but which of those truths are the most important? Which are the most emphasized and developed in the history of special revelation? Is it as important to know about cherubim and seraphim as it is to know about justification and redemption?
Second, biblical theology gives us the “big picture,” and shows us how all the truths of the bible cohere and relate to each other, and make sense as a whole. The bible was not given to us as a handbook of various truths and doctrines, but fundamentally as an epic story, in which all truths exist to portray the glory of one great Hero, promised, foreshadowed, and prepared for in the Old Testament, and finally coming to accomplish his magnificent and many-faceted work in the New Testament. Systematic Theology alone does not give this epic, Christ-centered sense of the bible as one great unified whole, testifying to the mighty work of God's redemption through his eternal Son, the triumphant Christ.
Third, biblical theology can be helpful in demanding the application of a rigorous historical-grammatical hermeneutic in exegesis. Biblical theology, by its very nature, must take into account the history and context of special revelation, and answer the questions of why a particular book was written at a particular time, what problems it addressed, how it further prepared the world and the people of God for the coming of Christ, and so on; and for this reason, it can be a healthy corrective to any tendency toward careless “proof-texting”.
Monergism Copyright © 2008
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sermonindex
Now comes the cutting and pasting.
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sermonindex
lol... you know how much I hate cutting and pasting... at least this was short. I dont have time this morning to try to elaborate that, much easier to paste.
Sorry!
Krispy
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sermonindex
Oooookaassy.
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sermonindex
Have to continue this some other time Krispy. You know daily chores call.
Blaine
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sermonindex
I think what brother Blaine may be referring to, and correct me if I am wrong brother, is, to use some theologicaly sounding words, Bibliocetric or Christocentric. When there is an improper balance, then death can follow. I would argue that if you are Christocentric, then you would also be bibliocentric, but, you can be bibliocentric without having your eyes on Jesus which would pruduce phariseeism and dead religion.
John 5:39-40 ..You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Jesus is clearly stating that there is no life in the Scriptures. It does not matter whether it is in the Old or the New Testament, there is no life in the Scriptures. If there was life in the words themselves and the knowledge of these words then the Pharisees would be men full of life. Yet what did Jesus say about these men? They were full of dead men’s bones, whitewashed tombs. They knew the word but they did not know God.
Words are vehicles for communicating. The word itself is a symbol of what is real. You may read about the truth or even hear about the truth and they may be precursors to life, but they are not life itself. Life comes to those who willingly come to Jesus and meet Him personally. And so the word without Jesus is empty and meaningless to the readers. It is in the person of Jesus that we are saved, and then He illuminates the word. The word of God must never be worshipped, how silly to worship the description rather that what is described. All of the word of God is useful to point us towards God, but it is only in His presence that anything is achieved. A man could read the sermon on the mount and rightly conclude that this was a masterpiece of teaching. Yet, outside of Gods presence, outside of His Spirit, all those who try and live by these commands will fail miserably or have some success and become self-righteous. The Bible is a treasure from God, but it is Jesus Himself, of whom the whole Bible testifies, who is the Word. Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. Heaven and earth will pass away but the Word, Jesus, is eternal.
I was saved knowing virtually nothing of Scripture. Men were saved in the first three hundred years of the church by the declaration of Truth, Jesus being the truth, by the Holy Spirit of the living God. After I was saved I devoured the Scriptures and as I read it I saw my own story in it. All the promises, the new heart, the love, the joy, my Jesus, it testified to in all of the word. The Spirit had laid it all on my heart and every page was a confirmation and it was exciting. I had no intellectual battles. My spirit witnessed with the word of God. I read many parts that I did not understand but there was no resisting in my spirit, just a sense that somewhere down the line, if it pleased my Lord, I would understand.
So to have life we must come to Jesus. The word “come ,” does not mean one time just as the word “abide,” is a continuous action verb better stated “keep abiding.” So we ought to keep coming to Jesus. Not keep getting saved, but keep seeking Him out. He is a treasure to be sought after, just “as the deer panteth for the water brooks,” then so my soul continually panteths after Him. He is my light and I detest the darkness. He is perfect light and I live in shades of gray at best. How could it be otherwise for in my flesh there is no good thing. Until it is raised in incorruption I can only know Him in measure. That is an agony and a despair that can be hard to live with. The only thing that makes it bearable is the measure I receive from Him daily, His blessings are new every morning and His steadfast love never ceases and His grace is sufficient to keep me wanting more. And every so often I am enraptured and filled to capacity, a continual baptism of the Holy Spirit if you like. And I am strengthened and encouraged and changed in the fire of His manifest presence and I move to a different level. Gratefulness and thankfulness keeps me in this place. I have found eternal life in the person and the manifest presence of Jesus and the Scriptures testify to that and there is unity……………………....brother Frank
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sermonindex
Frank... I agree with that. Absolutely.
Krispy
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Lysa
Lisa wrote:
God gave the gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) to the church before they could make a theology of it; and today man gets so caught up in the theology of it all that they won't accept the gifts that God has given them.
Krispy wrote:
I believe it was the Apostle Paul who delivered the theology of it... just sayin'...
Did Paul’s words come before the baptism of the Holy Spirit? No. I was just stating that God gave the baptism BEFORE anything was said about it.
Yes, Paul stated what the Lord showed him but in what… 4 to 6 chapters?? How many books have on written on those chapters to form theology? THAT’S what I’m talking about brother.
You make it sound like anyone who loves and studies theology is incapable of exercising spiritual gifts or is against them, and that simply is not the case. Thats a mischaracterization.
No, I didn’t make it sound like anything you just stated… pure and simple, I made a statement and you interpreted it according to your love of theology. And you end up mischaracterizing what I said!!! How ironic!
But I love you brother in Christ.
God bless,
Lisa
PS: Got to get ready for work, so I will not be ignoring anyone! God bless us all!!
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neemia
Can we please not deviate from the subject of the speaking in tongues? :)
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sermonindex
Be blessed at work Lysa!
Krispy
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sermonindex
Can we please not deviate from the subject of the speaking in tongues? :)
We didnt. Go back and look at the trillion of other threads on here about tongues and you will see they all pretty much have the same ebb and flow. Nothing new.
Krispy
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neemia
I was talking about this topic though. Still, I appreciate your comments. :)
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sermonindex
What can be said about speaking in tongues? You believe the gift is valid for today and practice or you don't. Other topics may arise which flow from this. Such as doctrine verses the Spirit. Actually this thread and the Holy Spirit thread run pretty close together. So if other topics arise that is good. The thread is generating discussion.
I think Krispy is correct that the scriptures need to keep us in check. I was having a spirited discussion with him to put some life into his Calvinism. But hey bro still love you for your committment to truth.
I think Brother Frank balanced it for us with his excellent post in staying focussed on Jesus. Bottom line that is where it should be. Stayed on Jesus.
Personally I do speak on tongues. But only do so rarely. I probably read my New Testament more than I pray in tongues. As our sister Lisa would say, my 2 cents worth.
Blaine
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sermonindex
I think Krispy is correct that the scriptures need to keep us in check. I was having a spirited discussion with him to put some life into his Calvinism. But hey bro still love you for your committment to truth.
This "Calvinist" believes the gifts are valid and active today... surprise surprise! I just dont always agree with what some people think the gifts are.
And I love you too bro... I love that we can get at it and still come out brothers.
Krispy
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sermonindex
At the risk of deviating from the topic, I don't really think it is, isn't it interesting that on the head-covering thread, it was strongly emphasied by many that even the smallest commandment could not be ignored and if you did, you did
at peril. Yet, if one talks about tongues it is immediatly pointed out that this is a lesser gift and you should not focus on it and if you do focus on it then it is unhealthy. Just thought I would point out that inconsistancy :). I am a proud tongue speaker, a gift from the Lord and His gifts are good and ...........brother Frank
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mikey2
Amen, brother Frank. Any gift from the Lord is a good gift. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is what He commanded His disciples to wait for on Pentecost. There was a reason for that.
Mike
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twayneb
Franks point is well made I think. Every one of us comes from a background that has shaped the core of our beliefs. It is part of our human nature to try to warp everything just a little bit to fit what we already think is true. This always leads us to inconsistencies of one sort or another. It is a hard thing for any of us to abandon our own ideas about what scripture teaches and simply accept what scripture teaches. When faced with our own inconsistencies we often bow up and go into defense mode to try to hold together our own structure. I am guilty of this and I am pretty certain everyone on this forum is guilty of it as well. Jesus has a way of cutting to the quick and dealing with these things if we will allow Him to do so. It is difficult to stay humble and teachable in all things. I struggle with this, do any of you? I think this forum is a good thing in that it often has forced me to reconsider what I believe and face inconsistencies in my own thinking. The same can be said about this "controversial" topic. I think we can all agree on a few things. First that speaking in tongues is a real gift of the Spirit for that is plainly spelled out in scripture. Second that it is only one of at least nine gifts. Third that there are instances of this gift in operation in the modern church. Fourth that one of the primary doctrines of the New Testament is that Jesus was leaving but was sending the Holy Spirit to empower believers. I suggest laying all of these things before the Lord, keeping our eyes on Jesus, and committing to allowing our apple cart to be upset and reloaded with oranges if that is what God wants to do. In other words, in any of these topics we need to focus intently on Jesus and do our best to remain humble before both God and our brothers and be OK with abandoning what we might have always thought about whatever the topic. I really believe there will come a greater unity in doctrine in these last days than there has been since the first 100 years of the church.
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Christinyou
I have what you say everybody is guilty of.
Unknown tongues or with understanding?
Rather 3 words with understanding than 10,000 in any verbalization without understanding?
There is only one way my mind can get around this, quit thinking about tongues and seek understanding and revelation of the Christ that is in us. This is all that Paul taught, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", Jesus Christ and HIm crucified. This is the greatest Gift of all. If tongues are needed in Gods plan for someones salvation, He will take care of it. Even I might speak in Hungarian.
In Christ: Phillip
quilty
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Lysa
Christinyou wrote:
I have what you say everybody is guilty of.Unknown tongues or with understanding?
Rather 3 words with understanding than 10,000 in any verbalization without understanding?
It's not really one or the other. Let’s read the correct context of what you said…..
Paul says, “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:” v18. (So he is THANKFUL that he has the gift of tongues!!)
And he continues with, “Yet *IN THE CHURCH* I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.” v19
(It is only “in the church” that he would rather speak words of understanding that men may know and hear and grow. Because in verse 28 he gives explicit instructions that if there is an interpreter IT IS OK to speak in tongues in the church! Wow! So in our prayer life there is no bridle on speaking in tongues!)
Christinyou, when we read the Scriptures as Paul wrote them, we see that Paul does not forbid speaking in tongues at all as some would have you believe and he rejoices in the gift of tongues in his own life. And remember that Paul did say, “Follow me as I follow Christ!”
God bless you brother,
Lisa
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sermonindex
I am a proud tongue speaker
Hmmm... watch out for that pride! It'll getcha.
Whats there to be proud of? If you have the gift of tongues it's not because of anything you did. Just like salvation: It's all of grace.
Krispy
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Joyful_Heart
To be honest I pray in tongues a lot all through the day and in the night watch. For me it is an awesome gift from the Lord as there are so many words I could pray but when I pray in tongues on a subject I know it His heart I am praying. And when in deep intercession it just comes, it flows, in warfare and when worshiping, I sing in tongues. Have for years. Some more than others but lately it has just been a flow as the Holy Spirit. Of course I pray with my words as well. PTL.
My heart is to see God move and He moves through prayer. Also, so very important is to keep our hearts pure before Him. When the Holy Spirit comes and convicts to quickly go to Him and repent.
Like the Pastor said Sunday. We have to look at ourselves and see if there be any fruit in our lives and if there is an area that is not bearing fruit ask the Holy Spirit to show us and help us. He is so faithful and longs to help make us Holy unto Himself. We cant do it on our own at all.
Also, ask. Do we really want Truth or are we bound and determined to not budge because we think this way or that.
One thing I can say is I have made poor choices at times in my walk with the Lord - now walking in complete repentance and forgiveness - All glory to His Name, But even before the scales were lifted from my eyes and I saw Him for who He is, I asked Him for TRUTH no matter what it was, no matter what religion. I just didn't care. I just wanted the Truth about which religion was His - there were so many. Of course, He didn't take me to a denomination, He took me straight to JESUS! I am forever thankful for this.
So, about anything I pray and ask God to show me TRUTH. I dont want to be deceived. So, you too can ask Him about praying in tongues. It is a powerful gift from the Lord. I never pray in public, it is a gift for me to use to pray and to worship in the closet.
It was on my knees I prayed and asked the Holy Spirit for this gift and He gave it to me. I think I asked several times. That was many years ago. I dont look down on anyone who doesn't - but I do pray you will ask Him for it and be blessed. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. And if it doesn't happen right when you want - wait on Him. It will come.
I pray as Paul, that all would seek and have this awesome gift from God and use it to His glory.
My testimony ~
Love & blessings to all,
Sheri
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narrowpath
When God gives a gift it is not a luxury but it must be put to use. No use in believing in the gift and not practising it.
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sermonindex
I dont recall seeing where anyone suggested you dont use it... as long as it's used Biblically, just like any other gift. It's just that this one is particularly abused far above any of the others.
Krispy
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MaryJane
I do believe that God does give the gift of tongues to whom HE chooses but I do not have this gift. I did at one time ask for and obsess over this gift but now I am just content to walk with HIM and desire to love HIM and know HIM.
Thank you all for sharing what the LORD has done in your life.
God bless
maryjane
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Lysa
Krispy wrote:
I dont recall seeing where anyone suggested you dont use it... as long as it's used Biblically, just like any other gift. It's just that this one is particularly abused far above any of the others.
I’m not trying to be argumentative but I would like to know who is to decide when God’s gifts are being used Biblically? Will it be the Baptist’s who decide what is Biblical when the majority don’t even believe the gifts are for today, let alone be used in the church? Presbyterian Church? Catholics maybe? Or will it be the Pentecostal’s to decide what it Biblical? And there's 1000's of doctrines. God knows exactly what His doctrine is on the gifts! It seems to me that God couldn't hardly wait for the new covenant to get here and just poured out His gifts on men and said “here, use them! Build my church.” It has been “man” who has created different doctrines about what, why, when, where, and how we can use them.
I would like to say that since the gifts of divers tongues *is* the most common gift among Christians, it would seem logically that it would be considered “abused far above” the rest.
What is abuse 'far above the rest'? I would like, if I may, to give a descriptive story that may or may not help to make my point…. We give vehicles to 16 year olds and when they ding it some parents go nuts thinking they’re abusing it and not taking care of it. Kids run it out of gas and we’ve got to get up at 1 o’clock in the morning and go get them; drink and drive; they run them into ditches; they drive above the speed limit; they take corners too fast; they drive with no seatbelts; they drive with their friends hanging out the windows yelling to the top of their lungs!! Think about the first vehicles we've each owned! How did we treat them? Did we handle each vehicle perfectly and uprightly? I know that I didn’t.
There are mature 16 year olds and then there are immature 16 year olds and it’s the same with Christians and the gifts that God gives them; but parents are still giving cars/trucks to 16 year olds and God is still giving gifts to his people! We trust our children with 2,000 lb vehicles and God STILL trusts His children with His precious Holy Spirit and His gifts! Praise God, any way we look at it, we are still better off for it!
I'm sure that there is outright abuse but we need to trust that God knows what He is doing.
Just my two cents!
God bless you Krispy and anyone else who took the time to read all of this! I hope my heart came across for this topic and for God.
Lisa
edited for clarity
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sermonindex
"I am a proud tongue speaker
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Meaning Krispy, I am not pretending to be something I am not, I am not ashamed of this gift even although there is a tremendous amount of pressure against it. As Lysa said, so many denoninations, outside of pentecostalism, do not even accept it but just dont have the guts to say what they really think, although I have heard a few saying its of the devil. The church I wennt to for eight years was pastored by a man who was kicked out of his Southern Baptist church after he got " baptized in the Holy Spirit."
Bottom line Krispy, my heavenly Father gave me a gift which many people do not accept or outright object to, and amongst that group of people, I am " proud," of what the Lord gave me and use it. Like I said in a previous post, some folks will go the inth degree when it comes to being Biblical in regard to headcoverings and so on, but when it comes to tongues, you begin to hear the crickets chirping :) Be blessed brother, I am sure you knew that I did not mean proud in that sense, as someone who has been a Christian for 21 years, I know well the dangers of pride from actual experience :( .........brother Frank
G
gators52
brother frank my spirit witnesses to you. You seem like a man whose life is hidden with Christ in God. God Bless you brother.
S
sermonindex
There is a danger of " theologizing," ( if there is such a word) Scripture so much that we lose the simple and plainest meaning. This definately applies to the sign gifts of the Spirit. One example from my personal life. IN Bible college ( Baptist seminary) one of my classes was "Premillenial dispensationalism." Now, how many think I should have gotton an A just for being able to say it and spell it ( still not sure about the spelling) I liked the prof who was teacihng the class, he was a good man. He only ever read Scriptures in Hebrew or Greek. For his own thesis, he wrote on Matthew 24. Now, we all know that this is not a particularly long chapter. HIs thesis was 324 pages long. Now, should I read that, or just read Matthew 24 and ask the Holy Spirit to open it up to me? Below is a quote from Tozer, I particulalry like the last sentence. It is taken from the book " Living as a Christian." Cessasionists should read :) ...........
" I have been to Bible conferences and heard teachers of many schools of religious Christian interpretation give the impression that they were proud of their ability to bring things out, both old and new, particularly new. And after they had settled the hash of the ordinary. simple interpretation of the thing, they give some curious interpretation. They had enjoyed theology from a curious standpoint.
I believe that this typpe of thing will lead us astray. As soon as we accpet the doctrine or the idea that the Bible is a book of theological toys to be played with by tender saintlings, we have missed the purpose of the Scripture and face the danger of slipping into false doctrine before very long. For the Bible was given to us not to satisfy our curiosity but to sanctify our personality. "
Schoolmen beware............brother Frank
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sermonindex
Thank you gators, I appreciate that thought, it is my life's desire to be hidden with Christ........brother Frank
S
sermonindex
1 I speak in tongues.
2 I use the NIV New Testament.
3 I stand with the persecuted chutch.
So come,and get me. For I have been honest with you. I could probably share some other things but my honesty nay scare you. So cone and get me.
Blaine
D
dietolive
Dear Brother,
I don't see anyone threatening you. Please, by all means;
speak in your tongues,
read your NIV,
and stand with the persecuted Church.
As surely as night follows day, so shall the God of all Creation be your Final Judge on the "last day." In that day, He will judge you, your heart, and all your works by Holy Fire.
Neither the praise, nor the scorn of man need be regarded in the meantime. Only let your heart be steadfast; to obey with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength the words of the Lord and His apostles, and in the end your praise will be, not of men, but of GOD Himself.
Be well dear Brother,
Doug
J
jrmoore59
Having grown up in a deeply religious family, I have witnessed people during church service speaking "true" tongues as I like to say and not that gibberish you see on TV or hear from a want-to-be-filled-with-the-Holy-Spirit wanna be's. Each time it happened, the atmosphere in church completely changed to a hushed feeling of complete peace. It was never the same person doing the speaking or translating the Angel's words. Just saying the person was saying words as we understand speech is incorrect, the sound never stopped or even paused, it began and ended. It was a sound that was mesmerizing and soothing and the best analogy is water running in a stream. After the Angel finished the message, another Angel would use another person to translate and the translation always started with the Angel identifying themselves and delivering the message. We moved away and never found another church filled with the Holy Spirti. I was about 17 years old the last time I heard an Angel and I'm now 52 years old, but I do know that Angel's do speak through the holy spirit. I promise you, if you ever hear an Angel, THERE WILL BE NO DOUBT AT ALL.
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