Counterfeit or Genuine Tongues?

Hey SI,

Can anybody tell me the difference between counterfeit tongues and genuine tongues? The thing is, I have been praying in tongues, but sometimes doubt comes in and just gets me to wonder "Is this real? Is this genuine? " I have seen the Holy Spirit work in my life and even others around me and that when I pray in tongues my spirit becomes stronger. It really helps me to get focused in prayer. The reason I ask this is because I don't want to grieve or even blaspheme the Holy Spirit, yet at the same time, I'm not sure about these things (whether it's real or not). It was only very recent that tongues just shot out of my mouth and at first I thought it was kinda weird, but then I continued praying with this gift. But many times I'm still in doubt, and my tongues became weaker, which kind of got me to think, did the Holy Spirit take it away from me because of my doubts?

If anyone can help me here please? I know this subject can spark a lot of controversy on this forum, but I just need some feedback on this. Please brethren, don't argue over this post, I just need some answers. Thank you all! And please keep me in your prayers over this subject, I need some spiritual discernment.

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Michael: From what you have said I would say the following:

1) What is happening fulfills a scriptural purpose of praying in tongues. When a man prays in tongues he edifies himself. You said you feel your spirit growing stronger through praying in tongues. Biblically that is what should be happening.

2) You focus in prayer is stronger. According to Paul's statements in 1 Cor. 2 the communion we have with the Holy Spirit should bring us to a place where we are more in tune to the Spirit of God. In fact, Paul is so strong as to say we have the very mind of Christ through communion with God through His Holy Spirit.

Praying in tongues is something that happens as most things in our walk with God, by faith. It is counter to human intuition to pray in tongues. We surrender ourselves in faith to the Holy Spirit dwelling in order for us to pray in tongues. So if I lack faith or have doubts, obviously there will be a weakness in me that causes me not to be able to receive the things of God as readily as I might.

So if I were you and had experienced what you described, and I have in the past, I would not worry about it. It sounds to me like you have received a genuine experience and the enemy is trying to make you doubt it and give up on it.

Brother,

How did you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? You recieved Him by faith. How did you receive the gift of tongues? The true gift of tongues is received by faith also.

"If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:11-13).

If you asked God for the gift of tongues then you do not have to fear that you have received a counterfeit. You said that as you pray in tongues that your spirit becomes stronger. This is the true gift of tongues because praying in the Spirit will strengthen and edify you.

"For one who speaks [prays] in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. . . He who speaks (prays) in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak (pray) in tongues, but even more to prophesy." (1 Corinthians 14:2–5)

"But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit." (Jude verse 20)

When you pray in tongues it is the Spirit that is giving you the utterance, and you are praying out of your spirit.

"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." (1 Corinthians 14:14).

Most of the false tongues that I have seen have been the result of man trying to force the issue. Like the brother who was coaching a seeker by having him repeat or mimic certain sounds.

Mike

I'm glad this thread is here because it's something I've been struggling with lately as well.

MichaelLiao wrote:
The reason I ask this is because I don't want to grieve or even blaspheme the Holy Spirit, yet at the same time, I'm not sure about these things (whether it's real or not). It was only very recent that tongues just shot out of my mouth and at first I thought it was kinda weird, but then I continued praying with this gift. But many times I'm still in doubt, and my tongues became weaker, which kind of got me to think, did the Holy Spirit take it away from me because of my doubts?

So brother, be confident and pray away!!!

God bless you!
Lisa

Counterfeit; me speaking in tontues. Genuine; The Holy Spirit speaking through me as He wills, which has not occured as of yet, but the top of the list of gifts for me is the revelation of the Son of God in me. As Paul teaches always, "Christ in you the hope of glory". Col 1:27 Gal 2:20

In Christ: Phillip

hi, the bible says that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave utterance so you do the speaking.a llot of the theology here sounds good but does not line up. who cares anyway...you answer for what you do and i the same...we are to flow together in love.jimp

thats how i feel too brother

i dont pray in toungs much ,it doesnt just come on

but i make my self then nomlay with in afew minutes

i start to feel edafied and like im flowing in prayer

most of the time i now what im praying for

maby becasue iv asked to interpreat my prayers

but i still doubt weather this is the gift of toungs

because iv herd of other descriptions of what toungs are

if it wasnt for the edafication i get when i pray like this , i would say with out doubt it is not real

i dont pray much maby 1 every 2,3 months

but i notice some thing going on in my spirit

and something in me refuses to reject my experance of edafictaion

Michael Liao,

You ask,

"If anyone can help me here please?"

Maybe I can, maybe I can't.

I'll try.

Can you please tell me what tongue(s)/language(s) you've spoken in when,as you put it,"tongues just shot out of my mouth"?

I ask this in the Light of His Word in Acts 2:4-11,

"And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed, and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how do we hear every man in our own language, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and Proselytes, Cretes and Arabians we hear them speak in our languages the wonderful works of God."

In the verses above note the word language(s)is used 4 times.

Adam Clarke comments on verse 4 thus,

"To speak with other tongues - At the building of Babel the language of the people was confounded; and, in consequence of this, they became scattered over the face of the earth: at this foundation of the Christian Church, the gift of various languages was given to the apostles, that the scattered nations might be gathered; and united under one shepherd and superintendent (επισκοπος) of all souls."

And A.T. Robertson comments on verse 4 thus,

"With other tongues (heterais glōssais). Other than their native tongues. Each one began to speak in a language that he had not acquired and yet it was a real language and understood by those from various lands familiar with them. It was not jargon, but intelligible language. Jesus had said that the gospel was to go to all the nations and here the various tongues of earth were spoken. One might conclude that this was the way in which the message was to be carried to the nations, but future developments disprove it. This is a third miracle (the sound, the tongues like fire, the untaught languages). There is no blinking the fact that Luke so pictures them. One need not be surprised if this occasion marks the fulfilment of the Promise of the Father. But one is not to confound these miraculous signs with the Holy Spirit. They are merely proof that he has come to carry on the work of his dispensation. The gift of tongues came also on the house of Cornelius at Caesarea (Acts 10:44-47; Acts 11:15-17), the disciples of John at Ephesus (Acts 19:6), the disciples at Corinth (1 Corinthians 14:1-33). It is possible that the gift appeared also at Samaria (Act 8:18). But it was not a general or a permanent gift. Paul explains in 1 Cor. 14:22 that “tongues” were a sign to unbelievers and were not to be exercised unless one was present who understood them and could translate them. This restriction disposes at once of the modern so-called tongues which are nothing but jargon and hysteria. It so happened that here on this occasion at Pentecost there were Jews from all parts of the world, so that some one would understand one tongue and some another without an interpreter such as was needed at Corinth. The experience is identical in all four instances and they are not for edification or instruction, but for adoration and wonder and worship.

So,again I ask,

In the Light of His Word in Acts 2:4-11 can you please tell me what tongue(s)/language(s) you've spoken in when,as you put it,"tongues just shot out of my mouth"?

Not to "spark a lot of controversy" but rather for "some spiritual discernment."

Thanks Michael.

hi, the problem here is that few if anyone who have not moved in this manner understand that there are two different things we talk about that are understood as one. there is a prayer language and then a gift of tongues;not the same... a dear friend who wrote a masters paper at a prominant baptist seminary on "tonges are not for today" which was accepted was called to pray for his mother who was dying not but a few months afer graduating from sem....he prayed and nothing changed and he went into another room and wept sore over his moms condition and asked God why we did not have the same power that the apostles had to lay hands on folks for healing and as he wept he began to speak in either the tongues of men or angels and went back into his moms room and prayed for her and god raised her up.this is a very misused item that brings confusion on the body as a whole.when you operate in the gift of tongues there must be an inturprtation or it is out of order. when you pray in tongues it is to be done privately so as not to confuse and always as everthing must be done in love,preferring one another.jimp

hi, it is NOT about tongues bro. approved it is about the Holy Spirit...Jesus told them to tarry in jerusalem until they were filled w/ the Holy Ghost after He breathed upon them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.the two words for power in the greek enter into this also;they were to tarry till they receive dynamic power rather then the authoritive power they had already. one word describes a police officer the other is the officer with a gun.jimp nowhere does it say you shall receive tongues after that the Holy Spiritcomes upon you...power...dunymos.

hi, it is NOT about tongues bro. approved it is about the Holy Spirit...Jesus told them to tarry in jerusalem until they were filled w/ the Holy Ghost after He breathed upon them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.the two words for power in the greek enter into this also;they were to tarry till they receive dynamic power rather then the authoritive power they had already. one word describes a police officer the other is the officer with a gun.jimp nowhere does it say you shall receive tongues after that the Holy Spiritcomes upon you...power...dunymos.

hi, it is NOT about tongues bro. approved it is about the Holy Spirit...Jesus told them to tarry in jerusalem until they were filled w/ the Holy Ghost after He breathed upon them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.the two words for power in the greek enter into this also;they were to tarry till they receive dynamic power rather then the authoritive power they had already. one word describes a police officer the other is the officer with a gun.jimp nowhere does it say you shall receive tongues after that the Holy Spiritcomes upon you...power...dunymos.

hi, it is NOT about tongues bro. approved it is about the Holy Spirit...Jesus told them to tarry in jerusalem until they were filled w/ the Holy Ghost after He breathed upon them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.the two words for power in the greek enter into this also;they were to tarry till they receive dynamic power rather then the authoritive power they had already. one word describes a police officer the other is the officer with a gun.jimp nowhere does it say you shall receive tongues after that the Holy Spiritcomes upon you...power...dunymos.

hi, it is NOT about tongues bro. approved it is about the Holy Spirit...Jesus told them to tarry in jerusalem until they were filled w/ the Holy Ghost after He breathed upon them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.the two words for power in the greek enter into this also;they were to tarry till they receive dynamic power rather then the authoritive power they had already. one word describes a police officer the other is the officer with a gun.jimp nowhere does it say you shall receive tongues after that the Holy Spiritcomes upon you...power...dunymos.

hi kk, i hope my computer doesnt go crazy again. 'i pray in the Spirit and pray in the understanding also.1cor.14... would someone who is not in their 70s delete the duplicated posts.

krispy wrote:
I wish just once someone would show me a scripture reference to this "prayer language". Praying tongues, obviously yes, but "prayer language"?

"If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays."

That is it; yes, my mind is unfruitful but let's go back to where Paul says, "For he who speaks in an unknown tongue is not speaking to men, but TO GOD; for no one understands him. Yet in the Spirit he is speaking secret truths (v2)...He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself...(v4)."

Brother, if anyone has ever been praying and then heard their tongue language come forth, they understand what is meant by "prayer language!" We use it mostly to pray and that is why I believe people call it a 'prayer language.'

I hope this helps, if I've confused you further, I'm sorry.

God bless brother,
Lisa

Can you please tell me what tongue(s)/language(s) you've spoken in when,as you put it,"tongues just shot out of my mouth"?

Hey savannah,

Well this is not a known language. The first time it happened I was just praying with a brother and a sister behind a plaza outside, and the Spirit in me just kept shouting "Hallelujah" while we were praying. We were just praying and praising God. All of a sudden, I just let it come out of my spirit (tongues). Usually out of my spirit came the "Hallelujahs" but when I sensed the tongues were coming, I just stopped it out of fear because I didn't know if it really was from God. It was as though I always had it, I just never used it. But when I let the tongues come out, it sounded Russian or Eastern European in the beginning, but then came a mixture of Middle Eastern sounds. Now I didn't understand it so I might need some interpretation. That's all I know right now...

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Krispy,

All I know to tell ya is to pray for the baptism of the Spirit (if you haven't) and see for yourself! See if it's a prayer language to you or not. Some things you just have to experience for yourself b/c no one can explain it enough to satisfy. (I'm off to work now!!)

God bless ya,
Lisa

Quote: Krispy wrote;

"""You can pray in the Spirit in a language you dont understand... such as Chinese. There is nothing here that says there is a "prayer language"."""

This is proved in Acts 2:7-11, They were not praying in any language, they were understanding the Gospel spoken by Peter and others that Jesus Christ was the Son of God.

They understood in their own Language, "how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"

This is where tongues started and it is for spreading the Gospel. I believe it can still be used in this day, but with very strict overseeing by the Holy Spirit.

Prayer language? "pray in this manner", ""Our Father"", this I understand.

In Christ: Phillip

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." (1 Corninthians 13:1).

What is Paul referring to in this verse when he speaks of praying in the tongue of angels? Could this possibly be a tongue that no human can comprehend or uderstand. My take on it is this, that if we are praying in the tongues of angels then it is to God and only God can understand it.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out at Azusa Street, many men and women that were called to be missionaries believed that the Holy Spirit was giving them the native language of the peoples that they were sent to evangelize.

I have been in meetings where in the gathering there were people there from other countries, and some of the messages that came forth were spoken in their native languages, and many of them were praises unto God.

Praying in the Spirit offends the human intellect. This is one of the reasons why it is resisted by so many men and women that see it as foolishness. Of course the enemy is behind all of the confusion and strife over the issue of praying in the spirit.

"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful."(1Corinthians 14:14).

Mike

Michael:

If you will examine closely 1 Cor. 12-14 you will notice that in chapter 14 Paul makes some very precise statements about tongues and interpretation. He says that in the context of the gift of tongues being in operation in order to bring a message to the assembly that an interpretation is required. Otherwise what good does the message do? If the purpose of God giving the gift in the context of the local body is for Him to speak to the body, then it makes sense that an interpretation is necessary otherwise nothing meaningful was communicated. But you will also notice several scriptures dealing with a prayer in tongues. Paul contrasts his own prayer life with the gift operating in an assembly. He says that he is thankful that he prays in tongues more than any of them, yet in the assembly he would rather speak with the understanding. Obviously from what he has said there was no interpretation required in the sense of praying in tongues. For when we pray in tongues, scripture says, our spirit prays but our understanding is unfruitful. But the point is not a message from God to the assembly but simply the ability to pray out of a place that surpasses my own limited intellect. Jesus is always interceding at the throne. I believe that when I pray in tongues I can enter into agreement with that intercession, praying the perfect wisdom of God in a situation. I believe 1 Cor. 2 bears this out.

hi, if you pray in chinese that you do not know than chinese is your prayer language.or prayer tongue...whatever you do,do it unto the Lord.

dear kk, it is hard to teach someone who knows from being in school and church and has learned. your right and the millions of us around the world are wrong.i conceed and respect what you have to say.because it aint important anyway and surely not meant to separate family.jimp

Lysa wrote:
All I know to tell ya is to pray for the baptism of the Spirit (if you haven't) and see for yourself! See if it's a prayer language to you or not. Some things you just have to experience for yourself b/c no one can explain it enough to satisfy. (I'm off to work now!!)

Krispy wrote:
Whoever said I dont pray in the Spirit? Who said I dont believe in praying in an unknown tongue?

I never said that.

I am saying there is nothing in scripture about some special "prayer language".

Brother Krispy, I know that the exact phrase “prayer language” is not in the Bible, but I did try to show you in another post, 1 Cor 14:14-15, where “I believe people” got the term “prayer language.” That was just my opinion; I do not know where the term came from.

God bless you brother,
Lisa

hi, one sunday morning at our church when it was about one twentieth of its size,we had a visiting preacher who stood up and started to speak in a language very strange to me. he went on for a while and as he stopped speaking , he said "sounds like jiberish doesn't it" then he explained that it was biblical greek and he was quoting john 1 and that just because it sounded stupid to us it was a real language and that we who had not yet learned it ought not to scoff but to study and pray and use the wisdom we were given from above to love the speaker. it was a good lessen for me.jimp it has nothing to do with God baptizing one in the Holy Spirit. who knows all the languages?john osteen told this to me . one day a message came forth in lakewood and he was sitting next to an african missionary who told him that this was the dialect from the tribe he ministered to and understood and when someone who did not know the language stood up and interpreted it was word for word.God is a great God and can do things beyond our understanding.jimp

jimp wrote:
john osteen told this to me . one day a message came forth in lakewood and he was sitting next to an african missionary who told him that this was the dialect from the tribe he ministered to and understood and when someone who did not know the language stood up and interpreted it was word for word.God is a great God and can do things beyond our understanding.

God bless you,
Lisa

I watched a testimony of a girl who was baptized with the Spirit. She went to her room and was led to go see her friend. She offered to pray with her friend and after they had finished she felt led to pray in tongues. She knew speaking in tongues wasn't permitted in the presence of someone who cannot understand but the Spirit was leading her so she did. After she was done speaking in tongues, her friend told her, "I know you were speaking in tongues, but I understood every word you said."

Video of the testimony for anyone interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjpKiFK_Q3w

Another thing: sometimes while praying in tongues I mentally pray with meaning. For instance my mouth will be going and in my mind I'm thinking, "Oh God I lift up ..."

It's more difficult than doing one or the other exclusively but helpful.

G'd is the Mighty Creator of all languages, so He is able to do extraordinary things when His children are in need of something far above our own power or ability.
I remember some 25 years ago, when I was sharing the gospel to a family. We did not speak each others language, so the Holy Spirit give me their language to speak at that very moment.
They responded and it was a wonderful to see the Lord working like that.
I believe the Lord is always looking for way’s to reach people and in this case He used to give me this.
It was not the last time something like this happened in my life, but I always try to be very careful in the area of spiritual things.
To walk in faith and be led by the Holy Spirit is living a life of miracles.
It is “stepping out in faith” and asking for wisdom to do so. The Lord wants us to act wisely in all we do.

Shalom,
browny

Michael, to me, speaking in tongues was not something that I had heard of, nor was it preached about to me, ever.

I was baptised in a church that expected tongues, however, to be given with the Ruach haKodesh. It was expected that I would come up out of the water literally speaking in this holy and sanctified manner. Unfortunately, not being raised in the church, I had no idea of this.

It didn't happen, and did not endear me to the church, or the church to me. I strayed very far from the faith, and churches of any kind for many years. Then, about fifteen years ago I heard Joyce Meyers on TBN speak about the subject, and that as a gift of the Ruach, you need to ask Adonai for the gifting in prayer, and believe that you receive it, just as any other gift of the Ruach, or any good thing that you might desire of Adonai.

I called the ministry, and asked to pray with someone for this gift, and once having prayed together, my prayer partner asked me to attempt the use of tongues. Oddly, it was a strain to search blindly out in a verbal manner. My tongue seemed rooted to the roof of my mouth, and all that came out at first was a gargling noise!

My prayer partner said not to be discouraged, but to continue to attempt the speaking of tongues on my own. After hanging up the phone, I did try again, and again, and after about fifteen minutes, the words of whatever language I was speaking slid easily out of my lips.

I found myself in odd moments remembering that I could speak so, and should, finding that I felt most comfortable singing in tongues, the music also being gifted to me as I sang, and changing from praise to anguish and back again as the Ruach willed, since I didn't understand a word or syllable that I spoke. I often used it as a way to pass the time when waiting in line, or waiting for a ride.

But after speaking and singing in tongues for many years, I have found that the experience is completely seperate from what I think about during the experience.

In fact, as I was reading this thread, I began to sing in accordance with familiar songs being played on Sirius 'the Message' on TV, using what words I didn't know, but keeping time with the songs and their changing tunes, and at the same time hearing the other words, and understanding what I was reading all at the same time!

I have demonstrated once to a friend who wanted to know what it sounded like, and she said that it sounded asian or eastern, and that I seemed like a little kid singing.

So much for public performance of what is to me a very private thing. I think the gifting of tongues can work more than one way, depending on what the Ruach desires, but
I have never been tempted or told to speak in public, and that when I sing in tongues, I sing under my breath so that no one hears me. I do not burst forth with tongues, so to speak, :), but have to make a conscious decision to speak so.

It is always easy, like turning on a switch, but seems to slip away if I don't concentrate on the music I am hearing, or if I speak, if I don't somehow feel as if I am reaching out and making a connection.

I have no doubt that if the Ruach needed me to make a statement in public, I could do so, and someone would understand, but on the other hand, I have never felt prompted to do so, just as I have no doubt that if a translation was needed somewhere, sometime, I could be used this way, but really don't anticipate the need.

I do, however know, once you have prayed for the infilling of this gift, there is no reason whatsoever for YHVH to refuse to gift the person praying, as it seems to be specifically for us to speak to Him privately, and for Him to speak though us as He desires.

Mark 16:15-17.
15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; (((they shall speak with new tongues;)))

Q

p.s. So far as I know, I never had the infilling of the Ruach haKodesh at my baptism, and though tied in trust to Yeshua, not having the Ruach working in me made my journey a very slow and painful one, while in the time since I received tongues my entire life has been reworked, and continues to astonish me with changes I had no idea were being worked in me. For anyone thinking they are moving towards Yeshua too slowly, or not at all, praying as I did with a partner, asking for all the gifts of the Ruach haKodesh, might be key to your spiritual progress.