Struggle with sin

I have seen a lot of posts concerning Romans 7 lately. This thread is really not about that.

I do want to say that as a born again Christian I did have a very hard and long strong struggle with sin in my life.

I want to know if you have experienced this struggle in the past or are now still struggling with sin.

Hello tuc

Yes I had a hard struggle with sin. No matter what, there was something within me that did not want to submit fully. Oh yes on most things I was willing but when it came to doing good to my enemies, I did not want to do it although I would do it but I did not want to. So that was merely an outward obedience. I found that in other things. I sometimes did not want to pray or read the scriptures, but I would do it. During these dry times, I knew my love for other thigs would compete with the love I had for Christ and sometimes I did not really love Him. Oh I feared Him and admired Him all right but I knew that if I loved Him with all my heart then other things would mean nothing. But I still liked my comfort, I still liked to have things go ok and something inside rebelled when things went bad. I did not want discipline or suffering.

It was the baptism of the Holy Spirit which put an end to all of this up and down Christianity.

I will say looking back, that even though my sins were deliberate, calculated, willful, and premeditated; these sins NEVER separated me from God. I did NOT loose my salvation.
God was never angry with me.

I am thinking that growth in Christ is the never ending increase of the awareness of what God has ALREADY done for me.

As my awareness grows the more I embrace what I now see. Then I can truly enjoy and experience what I have seen.

Then God opens my eyes even more to see more cleanly what he has accomplished for me.

This is a never ending cycle!!!!!!!!!!!

The more I see the more I grow. The more I grow the more I see.

If you are struggling with sin then ask God to open your eyes to what He has ALREADY done for you and then walk in that.

Just embrace and enjoy THE LIFE OF CHRIST that God has already given you and sin will no longer be your master.

God has made you dead and you are dead to sin, now embrace that and enjoy it!!!

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

We just need to be careful that we dont venture off into promoting "sinless prefection". There is no such thing. That is not taught in scripture either.

Show me a man who claims to be perfectly sinless, and I will show you a man who's sin is pride (and lying).

Krispy

Dear KrispyKrittr

Please would you give your definition of sinless perfection for clarity. Thanks

Brenda

Some refer to it as “Total Sanctification”, which means that a believer can reach such a state of sanctification in this life here on earth that they never have a sinful thought or action. This is clearly false, especially when you read the book of James. James writes, "For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body" (James 3:2).

So, is James not saying here that a man can indeed be perfect? No, because only a few verses later, he comments, "But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison" (James 3:8).

James is stating as a fact that no man can tame even the tongue to the point of perfection, not to mention his whole body. People who claim sinless perfection are calling James a liar and are calling the Scripture a lie.

Certainly we should strive to tame the tongue. We should strive to live holy and extract sin from our lives. But it is unrealistic to expect perfection when the Bible itself plainly says such perfection is impossible.

That's the whole point of the gospel!

1 John 1:8 states simply, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Think about this… if someone says they have reached sinless perfection in this life then it could be argued that they do not have the truth which is a light that exposes to us how dark and sinful we really are in our flesh. That is a dangerous place to be.

And what of humility? How can a man or woman claim they are perfect, and make that claim with humility? In my estimation a humble person would never claim such a thing even if it were true.

1 John 1:8-10 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

If we claim we have no sin in our life… but the truth is that we do… then we can not confess that sin. Without confession there is no forgiveness. If we say we have not sinned we call Christ a liar.

Some think this is referring to before we are saved. No, who is this being written to? The church, believers.

NOW… positionally spiritually, in Christ, we are made perfect. That happens when God saves us. When our hearts are regenerated. We are made clean and forgiven and justification makes us positionally holy. We take on Christ’s righteousness spiritually. This is clearly taught in the Bible… but sinless perfection in our flesh is never taught in the Bible. People have to mangle and do violence to scripture in order to smash “sinless perfection” into it.

Krispy

Krispy

I know that you do not believe it is then ok to sin, we must seek holiness. So you think that it is inevitable that man will fall occasionally. So what is his position between falls?

Of course we fall. When we fall He is faithful to forgive us, but we do not lose our salvation when we fall. We may strain our relationship with the Lord, just like any child who disobeys his natural parents... but we do not stop being His child.

The difference is living a lifestyle of sin and rebellion. A child of God, when they sin will hate their sin and run to the cross. But someone can not live in a rebellious willful lifestyle of sin and be a child of God.

In other words, a child of God will not live that type of lifestyle. The Spirit of God will not let them.

If someone claims to be a child of God, but lives a lifestyle contrary to God and has no desire to repent... that person has never been saved to begin with.

When you are saved God gives you a brand new heart (regeneration). With that heart comes a desire for the things of God, and not the things of the world.

Krispy

brodav9... thanx! I think you said it much better than I did.

Krispy

Krispy you say that we fall sometimes but what about the times inbetween? Are we sinning then or not?

kraut... is there a point to these questions? I'm sorry, but I dont really have time to answer a line of questioning, and I'm starting to think you are trying to make some sort of point. If so, make it.

Fact is I sin everyday... usually in my attitude or motives, sometimes in action... we all do. And I hate it.

Krispy

LearJet said: "At times in my life I've fasted for periods and noticed that the more that I fasted, the worse that I felt about my self so I would quit."

Yes, I do understand.

Though I fasted for probably the same reasons, I think that you agree that there were moments that you were refreshed during the fast, but what you were aiming at in conquering a certain sin or several sins that you had great freedom from it, but found out that later AFTER the fast that you felt miserable because you fell sway to the very thing that you were fasting against.

Well, if you haven't gone through that, I did. I realized that I can't hurry God's hand because I want it to go away, like now. I felt really great during the lengthy fast and I would love to do it again just for the sheer exhilaration of being so close to God. Food has a way of getting in the way.

God didn't take the "thorn" away, but He has a little here and a little there of other things. I am amazed at the work that He is currently doing and we are work in progress being fitted for good works.

The Lord told me some years ago that He wounded me that He may heal me and show forth His mercy through my life. I don't understand His ways, but they are certainly passed finding out.

Praise God!

Discussing the opposite of the original subject is surely not straying from it so unless the moderators intervene I will continue.

Krispy, my desire is to have a clear definition of your terms. You say that as Christians we are not to have sin as a lifestyle yet you say you are unable to stop sinning constantly which is surely a style of life. Or are you saying that it is not constant, just a few times a day?

Krispy, my desire is to have a clear definition of your terms. You say that as Christians we are not to have sin as a lifestyle yet you say you are unable to stop sinning constantly which is surely a style of life. Or are you saying that it is not constant, just a few times a day?

Wow... I find it humorous when people try to decipher what I am saying by putting it in their own words.

I dont know how many times a day we or I sin! It's really not even about how times we can sin, or any of that. The fact is the flesh is still flesh... and even tho spiritually we are justified and made holy because we have taken on the righteousness of Christ the moment we are saved, our flesh is still with us.

Thats the struggle Paul referred to.

You're asking how many times a day I sin, or if it's constant sin... thats not even the point. There are sins we do that we do not even know we do.

But when the Holy Spirit reveals some sin in your life, your reaction to Him will reveal where you are spiritually. Do you fall on your knees because you love the Saviour so much that you are crushed to your core that you sinned after all that He has done for you?

Do you fight and struggle to live holy and turn and run from sin when you recognize it?

Then you have the Spirit of God inside you.

Or... do you run to sin? Do you enjoy it? Do you go on your merry way and not worry about it because deep down inside you dont care? Do you live just like the world and not give a thought to it?

Then you do NOT have the Spirit of God inside you and you have never been saved... and need to be.

Thats the point.

You are focussed on the wrong things and have missed my whole point in this.

By the way, to the person who wants to get back to the original question, thats fine... but this topic will naturally arise from the original question. It's like asking a question to your mechanic and getting annoyed when he keeps talking about the engine.

Krispy

It is not all about sin

It seems that sin management is the main priority of many Christians that I think may fit under the category of "Idolatry." Some Christians talk and think more about sinning and sins than they do Jesus Christ Himself.

For over 20 years I tried to manage my sins. I found out that I could not even manage even one sin. If you have taken on this responsibility you will fail and all you will experience is grief and despair. Let me make this very clear, this is NOT your responsibility!!! God never intended that you manage your sins. That is impossible!! God has already dealt with the sin problem once and for all.

The Bible says that Jesus came to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. That's the reality we need to lock in on in life! Sin doesn't intimidate God. He defeated it, once and for all, on the cross. So why should we spend our time making sin the object of our attention? When He took all of our sin into Himself and said "it is finished", that's exactly what he meant. Now we are to focus on Jesus Christ, not ourselves, not our sins. We're to focus on Jesus Christ. The Bible says if you set your mind on the things of the flesh, you will reap the things of the flesh. So if we want to walk in victory over sins, we don't do that by focusing on the temptation to sin, we focus instead on Jesus.

"But don't we need to focus on overcoming our sins?" some may ask.

In Col.3, Paul said "If you are risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth, for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

As we focus upon Jesus Christ, we will find that the attraction toward that temptation that has us in its grip, will become weaker and weaker. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is our strength. I think of the old song that said "Turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim, in the light of his glory and grace."

The perfect sacrifice for sin has been given and the Bible says that because of that we can now live without sin-consciousness. (See Hebrews 10:1-2) Now we live with the consciousness of Christ, our Righteousness!

The primary project for most Christians in the modern church is to reduce the number or frequency of sins in their lives. It's a sin management program that they devote themselves to with great zeal and sincere commitment.

It all sounds so good on the surface. That's the subtlety with legalism. It sounds right to the religious ear despite the fact that it contradicts and ignores what the Bible teaches. It sounds so right to some that to become Godly requires that we work hard to change our bad behaviors and replace them with good ones. To them it's all about diminishing the number of sins that we commit and increasing the number of good things that we do. But Godliness doesn't come from that. Godliness is not the absence of sin.

The truth is this, the reason you're godly is because the Spirit of God lives in you. The Holy Spirit came into you. Jesus said, "it is necessary for me to go away, so that the Holy Spirit can come." And when the Holy Spirit came into you, He said: "I'll never leave you, or forsake you." Since the Holy Spirit came into your spirit, and your spirit is the core of your identity (and it is), then you are holy, you are Godly, because God's Spirit is inside you. It doesn't have to do with resisting sin, or giving into sin. The truth is, you're just as Godly whether you sin, or don't sin. Your identity isn't established by what you do. It is established by what He has done!

That fact scares the legalists, because it causes them to think "If you tell people that, they'll go out and sin!" No, to the contrary. When we understand who we are, and we know that we've been made godly through Jesus Christ, that activates - becomes a catalyst within us - to not want to go out and live a sinful lifestyle. Religious rules are to sins what gasoline is to a fire. (See Romans 7:5) Jesus, on the other hand, is our Fire Extinguisher.

The idea that if we resist sin, we become more Godly, that is a lie that will cause you to take your eyes off of Jesus Christ, and put them on your temptation. Remember, the Scripture says if you set your mind on the things of the flesh you'll reap the things of the flesh.

The truth is, we need to put our eyes on Jesus Christ, and know that we are already Godly in Him, and when we understand that, and we rest in Him and in the reality of our own righteousness in Him, then the godliness which is ours in Christ, will be reflected through our lifestyle and our actions, and the sins of our life will simply fall away because we're so consumed and obsessed with Jesus. Stop trying to stop sinning and start trusting in the One who has dealt with your sins in totality! You're not evil. You are holy. Deal with it :)

When Jesus died, He said, "It is finished." Now by faith we can experience that freedom. The gospel of the cross is that Jesus Christ has dealt with all of our sin. We are forgiven, righteous, and are now free to live out of Divine Life!

The authentic message of the gospel of grace is largely absent in the religious climate of the church world today. The gospel of grace is the proclamation that our God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit came down to this world, dealt with our sin once and for all and has reconciled us back to God. Now all of our sin has been dealt with and has been forgiven! That is the truth of the gospel!

Jesus came to put away your sin and He fully succeeded at that. (See Hebrews 9:26) We need to stop worshiping our sins by focusing on them and glory in the finished work of the cross. God's grace is bigger than our sins and He will use our lives for His glory. Let's just trust Him to do it!

One of the most commonly used words in the New Testament referring to the relationship that exists between Christians has the connotation of a party. It is the word "koinonia," usually translated in the 1611 KJV as "fellowship". An accurate twenty-first century paraphrase could be the word "party." Through the work of the cross the Trinity has dealt with the sin issue in our lives. Now, the Holy Spirit has been sent to invite us to enjoy the divine, supernatural party which will last for all eternity. Forever we will celebrate His life! Is your life characterized by an aura of celebration? On the night before His crucifixion, Jesus clearly said that He wants His joy to fill our lives (John 15:11).

I can now rest in God's finished work instead of attempting to fight my sins and failures. I now enjoy His Victory daily.

1 Corinthians 1:27-31 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

God our Father has chosen to put wisdom, righteousness sanctification and redemption, which is all Jesus Christ, chosen to put Him in us, "the foolish to confound the wise".

It is by Christ and Christ alone that makes us not of this world, but of citizenship in heaven by Christ who is born again in us. All sin is taken away in Christ, it is faith by Grace that makes us presentable to God our Father. Sin will take care of itself when we no longer have these flesh and blood flesh bodies to live in. If it were not for Christ in us we would all be Lost, with our without sin, but all have sinned and none seek God. It is only by the birthing of the Incorruptible Seed in us that we are God's children. I will learn obedience just as Christ did by the things I suffer. As Paul, who rejoiced in his suffering, because it brought Him to God, through Jesus Christ who will set us all who believe free and free indeed.

Tuc... that was beautiful!!!!!

I have nothing more to add. You stated it perfectly.

Krispy

WALKING IN THE FLESH

Romans 7:23

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

WALKING IN THE SPIRIT

Romans 8:2

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

We can see Paul is describing two opposing states of being, one of captivity and the other of freedom.

We are not to live a life(style) of sin and if we have been made free from sin we are free indeed.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

The point is that Christ was the PERFECT sacrifice does make one forever PERFECT!

Our sins are not covered!!! - they were REMOVED completely by Christ.

I do not insult Jesus and his precious Blood but embrace fully and enjoy what He has already done and accomplished for me.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Some of the posts here though are talking a different language to what the websites intentions are. Or have I got this wrong ?

I know it's good to speak about the grace of God in forgiving us daily but this subject started about the subject of repentance. Some of the replies are trying to dismiss the need for repentance and overcoming sins.

I dont think so... I think we misunderstand what people are saying because we all tend to write in snippets. So if you read snippets of things you are bound to draw wrong conclusions about what is being said.

Make no doubt about it, when we are saved Christ's righteousness is imputed to us and from that point on we are declared righteous in the sight of God.

Thats basic Biblical theology 101.

In the flesh, however we are still struggling because our flesh wars against our spirit, and vice versa. That is where we live in daily repentence. I know I do!

I dont think anyone is saying we live in grace therefore repentence is not necessary in our lives. Actually that would be what is termed "cheap grace", which is no grace at all.

Christ has freed us from the penalty of sin, and in so doing He enables us thru the Holy Spirit to live for Him. And when we sin... we confess our sins and He is able and just to forgive us. That was written to Christians, that was written to us.

Does that help?

There has been an influx of strange doctrines lately making their way onto this forum, there is no question about that. It happens from time to time. It's the ebb and flow of this forum. Some are strongly trying to push their agenda (false teaching), and they soon find themselves removed. Others discuss and reason and that is a good thing, as long as they (and all of us!) remain teachable.

Let me tell ya, I thought I had everything all figured out when I first came here in 2006. 5 or 6 years later I can tell you that I didnt know anything, and my theology has evolved a LOT. I have had my mind changed by the Word of God about particular doctrines, but not just by God's Word alone, but by partaking in many discussions here with people who challenged me. Was it always a pleasant discussion? Nope... but by God's grace a number of people here "got me" (understood me) and didnt give up on me.

And trust me... I have a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go.

Krispy

KrtispyKitter what is your definition of repentance ? I am just unsure about what you think.

Repentence is changing your mind about your sin (before salvation I loved my sin) and admitting that our sin is an affront to a holy God. Therefore we turn from our sin and seek after God.

I agree 100% with tuc that we can not do that without God enabling us to do it thru the work of the Holy Spirit.

Before you were saved you were "dead in your trespasses and sins"... and a dead man is unable to change his circumstances. When you were saved God regenerated your heart (gave you a heart of flesh... which simply means a soft heart toward God... and took away your "heart of stone") and gave you life everlasting.

When He saves you He also gives you His Holy Spirit. You dont receive the Holy Spirit some time after salvation for you can not even be saved unless He has given you the Holy Spirit!

We therefore are set free and enabled to live for Christ.

You therefore view sin differently, and instead of loving your sin and hating God... you now love God and hate sin! And because of that love for the Saviour and your hatred for sin you seek to turn from sin and run to the cross.

Thats repentence. We can not repent on our own... it is a work of Grace. God enables us to repent where before salvation we were unable to.

Krispy

Do not forget that it is God who gives repentance.

2 Tim 2:24-26, "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

I did not say that you can't overcome sin.

God has already dealt with the sin problem once and for all.
I walk in and enjoy the victory over sin that was accomplished for me by Christ Himself. This is not a struggle but a rest and joy.

Here is what I wrote

For over 20 years I tried to manage my sins. I found out that I could not even manage even one sin. If you have taken on this responsibility you will fail and all you will experience is grief and despair. Let me make this very clear, this is NOT your responsibility!!! God never intended that you manage your sins. That is impossible!! God has already dealt with the sin problem once and for all.

The Bible says that Jesus came to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. That's the reality we need to lock in on in life! Sin doesn't intimidate God. He defeated it, once and for all, on the cross. So why should we spend our time making sin the object of our attention? When He took all of our sin into Himself and said "it is finished", that's exactly what he meant. Now we are to focus on Jesus Christ, not ourselves, not our sins. We're to focus on Jesus Christ. The Bible says if you set your mind on the things of the flesh, you will reap the things of the flesh. So if we want to walk in victory over sins, we don't do that by focusing on the temptation to sin, we focus instead on Jesus.

Krispy I don't find that repentance is just changing your mind about your sin. Rather, it is leaving your sins behind with determined vigour not to go back to them.

Isnt that what I said? If I wasnt clear about that in my post, then I certainly have been in many many others over the past 6 years.

Krispy