I heard something interesting last night...

Last night while driving home from church I heard John MacArthur on the radio and he was wrapping up the program and he said something very saddening to my amazement. He was talking about hearing God and He made the statement that anyone who says they have are basically being misled and that it is some sort of mystism. and then stated that he has never heard the voice of the Lord and the only way God has spoken is through Holy Scriptures.

My immidate thought was John 10. IMO, this man has a Huge influence and has studied the scriptures for years and years and has come to that conclusion. What then for the Spirit of God?

yeah I ve been praying for him. I understand why he would respond so radically against the charismatic movement but he went to the other extreme!

the path is narrow and if we go to far to the left or right we will miss it!

it really just confuses me because he has some really good teachings but then he sorta just dismisses other parts of scripture...

on the other hand the critique of the charismatic movement to people like John MacArthur is that he is unbelieving and a Pharisee but they are on the other side of the spectrum...

Interesting. However, it is where cessationistism must always end up at.

Given his belief on this matter I do then have a question for John MacArthur.
My question is this.

EXACTLY WHY did he enter the ministry then? By his own words and admission it CAN NOT be because God spoke to him and called him to the ministry. The Bible certainly does not say "John McArthur is called to ministry". The only option we are left with then is that John himself just decided one day that he wanted to enter the ministry as his "vocation" in life. No other reason... John just chose to. Same as just choosing vanilla ice cream over strawberry ice cream for dessert.

To admit God called him would be acknowledging extra Biblical revelation. And by his own words (on many occasions) that is in error and mislead.

Interesting... but by a cessationist's own words and definitions it is impossible for God to call them to ministry. Unless there is a specific chapter and verse that specifically says God called that specific person to ministry it is unacceptable in their theological view.

Just some food for thought.

Blessings!

Excellent points Brothers. How would he know he was called? For that matter, how would he "know" he was even saved? Is the Witness of the Spirit "mysticism" too?

"Is the Witness of the Spirit "mysticism" too?"

Great question dietolive. Some of the religious believe so. It amazes me how many preachers you can listen to who speak about Father and Jesus, but rarely if ever speak about the Holy Spirit. Why is that? At times I believe it is because we are afraid of what we might be shown from the Holy Spirit.

I think that those who are comfortable in the written Word sometimes fail at walking in the living Word. I am not above this and can do this myself at times.

QUOTE:
"Excellent points Brothers. How would he know he was called? For that matter, how would he "know" he was even saved? Is the Witness of the Spirit "mysticism" too?"

This is profound! Thanks for sharing this insight!

This kind of speaking is the danger of "confidence". A statement made without full consideration of it's end. We are "all" in danger of making statements similar.

Our Lord Jesus was amazing. He never spoke "from Himself". Our danger is esteeming our own thoughts too highly and speaking from "self" confidence rather than according to the measure of faith we have been granted.

Nearly all of the great kings in Judah, fell from the same careless confidence once their place was secure.

I am reminded not only that teachers will incur a stricter judgment, but that "anyone" who considers himself religious and does not keep a tight rein upon his tongue deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

McArthur's comments are highly public, but may our own prayer be that "all" the words of our mouths and the meditations of our hearts" be acceptable in Thy sight O Lord.

We are in great need to "weigh" what we say carefully - both before and after - it is the heart of the righteous to do so.

makrothumia

Solomon101 wrote:
To admit God called him would be acknowledging extra Biblical revelation. And by his own words (on many occasions) that is in error and mislead.

Interesting... but by a cessationist's own words and definitions it is impossible for God to call them to ministry. Unless there is a specific chapter and verse that specifically says God called that specific person to ministry it is unacceptable in their theological view.

I do not know much about cessationism(?) (see I don’t even know how to spell it!!), just because I don’t study theology and know my ‘ism’s’ doesn’t mean I that don’t appreciate those who do and can state them with clarity. You have opened my eyes with the logic of your post!

God bless you and the others,
Lisa

Excellent points Brothers. How would he know he was called? For that matter, how would he "know" he was even saved? Is the Witness of the Spirit "mysticism" too?

Dear makrothumia,

What "kind of speaking" are you referring to? What "statement" are you referring to?

When responding to others, please give the Reader the courtesy of addressing the person or persons you are responding to directly. This Reader (at least), would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts. As usual, they appear measured and circumspect.

Be well dear Brother, and thank you for your consideration.
Doug

Dear makrothumia,

What "kind of speaking" are you referring to? What "statement" are you referring to?

I apologize for the confusion. I was refering to McArthur's statements, "the type of speaking" that can come from years of successfull ministry or apparent success. A person who speaks from the "confidence" in his or her own understanding rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Successful men are particularly vulnerable to this. The Kings of Judah, Solomon, Rehoboam, Asa, Uzziah, Hezekiah, were different in the days of their utter dependency upon the Lord. Once they became established, their confidence became their downfall.

So if we think we stand firm take heed lest we fall.

Thank you for your help Doug in allowing me to clarify what I was attempting to say.

For all the readers, let us take heed to our ask the Lord to set a watch upon our mouths and keep the door of our lips. Let us guard our hearts with all diligence, for self confidence allowed to live in the heart will most likely find its way through the door of our lips.

makrothumia

it just seemed to me that it was dead theology of the Living God... Our God is an expierential God.

I can certainly understand why gators52.

It just blows ones mind to think where his cessationist beliefs have taken him. However, it is where that train always goes to. Which by the way.... I would never say a word about except that he gets on that topic, loses all ability to exegete scripture, and spews it across the airwaves for others to be infected by. He is so solid in other areas.. I have enjoyed several of his messages..but then he just quits using what he knows about scripture interpretation when it comes to this one area. WHY???

Clearly..the Bible DOES NOT tell you exactly what city to live in, job to work at, person to date, church to attend, if you are called to ministry, or any of thousands of issues we all must deal with. Those specific answers to those questions must be received by direct revelation from God. If that is not possible then there is NO WAY to be obedient to Him in those areas. OF COURSE there is extra Biblical revelation... as I stated earlier, without it John McArthur, or anyone else for that matter, can not even know they are called into ministry! It was just a "choice" like choosing what shoes to wear.

It is a ridiculous thought from a Biblical perspective as well. As a simple example.....

Jesus said to, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature..." in Mark 16.

However, did you ever notice this in Acts 16:6-7? Speaking of Paul right before his Macedonian vision it states , " Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been KEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM PREACHING THE WORD in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the SPIRIT OF JESUS WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO".

AMAZING! Jesus had spoken the word in Mark 16 many years before....they were now going into all the world... the fields were white unto harvest.... now The Holy Spirit is FORBIDDING (kjv) them from obeying it in Asia! Now, we know that from the rest of the story it was because The Holy Spirit wanted them to go to Macedonia at that time. Do you see that?!?! The Holy Spirit is forbidding them from obeying Mark 16... it appears. In essence it seems that The Holy Spirit is forbidding them to obey scripture!

THAT is why we must not only be strong people of THE WORD but also of THE SPIRIT! We must be BOTH to accurately hear and fulfill God's plan in our lives!

In the example in Acts I mentioned.. John McArthur, and any cessationist for that matter, would have absolutely and totally missed the plan of God. They would have continued into Asia saying.."Well..it is what the Word says..go into all the world..and we are going". However, in this case it WAS NOT the will of the Holy Spirit to go anywhere but Macedonia for them. You can never get that revelation unless you allow for extra Biblical revelation. They could not..... and neither can we.

God in Heaven... make us people who know your word deeply. Father, also make us into a people who can hear the voice of The Holy Spirit and respond to His leading to fulfill the call on our lives in even the smallest details.

Blessings Friends!

CAPS only used to bring emphasis to certain words. No yelling was intended.

Very well said dear Brother.

It is truly both the Word and the Spirit together.

We endeavor to obey what the Word actually says, and it is the Spirit that teaches us how to do it.

BE WELL!
Doug

The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. I think it may be good to have a reference for "those words" he stated, like a specific link to that particular radio broadcast. Anyway of finding that out?

And, I'd like to add that I also think that this very topic here discussed can bring an evil snare with it - although the man maybe theologically incorrect in this one point, he has brought more people to Christ than I have - and that's one fact. Another fact is this - that it is only by the grace of God that I do also believe that "those that are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God", not of my own works lest I should boast, and let any knowleadge that I have of Christ puff me up, and therefore not display Christ-like love to any brother, I would end up sounding like a clanging gong. I would humbly ask that all saints pray for Mr MacAurther, and if allowed by providence to point out his error to him in humility, to do it in a spirit of meekness.

Hi Gator, thanks for your post. As you said about John 10, it says in verse 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

So if he has never heard His voice, how then can he follow Him or be His sheep?

I read his book Charismatic Chaos and was very saddened by it.

I have listened to John MacArthur for atleast ten years and have known that he has always been against charismatic Christianity, which I don't blame him. I also know how he is a TRUE defender of the Gospel. My point is in light of all that being said, where does the Holy Spirit fit in? I too have said MANY things in error, we all have. This is love in addressing such a statement as he made. Which is one in a long line of statements he has made. I'm sure if we had the opportunity to speak to mr. MacArthur he would defend his theology on these matters, as well as the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yes I agree with Yeshuasboy
John Maccarthur is a brother that we need to pray for.
From the fruit of his ministry we know that he is doing somethings right and I find it hard to believe that his material is not the function of the Holy Spirit working in him as a teacher to the body. So I woud say that he does speak life but I guess he speaks death sometimes too.

This shows the grace of God working through someone despite their imperfections (to His glory)
It also shows the importance of being a pure vessel unto the Lord. If we are not then we will at simultaneously give out life (from Christ in us) and death (from ourselves) Its like giving out bread with poison in it or more like YEAST. We defeat ourselvesobtruct and harm the work God in us and through us. And the people under the minister grow up with some sort of spiritual handicap and do not receive the fullness of what Christ died for in their Lives!

The verses brought to mind are:
9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be
Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water? Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh. James 3:9-11

The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, but the mouth of the wicked conceals violence. Prob 10:11

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. Prob 18:31

Though much division in the body has been caused because of cessationalism. I believe that this is all sovreignly of God for His glory so that when He brings His body together into unity no one can say someone did it but all will have to acknowledge it was God!

So dear Brothers and Sisters let us PRAY! We have been divided for too long and the times call for us to be united so that the world will know that we are His disciples!

i think you gys are misrepresenting john

what he is talking about is the adable voice of god ,,being led by that is the contex

also i noticed he preached at one of the bibgests carasmatic churches ,,pasted by greg lauri,in america

the carsamatic greg lauri concidered john and a great man of god ,,,,,,,

men like jonathen edwared believe much the same but are both led by the holy spirit ,in the contex of what the spirt has taught them through scripture ,ilumnation of the scripture ,and then the practical aplication of it as the spirit leds ,is what he is talking about

you brothers and sisters are verry quick to judge with out have a full understanding of the matter

john was well excepted by carasmatics in some circules

and he excepted them as brotrhers in christs ,he preached to them as tho they were brethern

google greg laurrie ,and find is web site ,you may be able to find the sermon he preached in this fully carsmatic church

verry christ centerd sermon ,,probably the best iv seen my self from john

having said that ,,,,i defenity dont agree on all of john views

but brothers we shouldent be so hasty in condeming men like paull washer ,and macarther , or weasly ,or edwared ,,who are all concidered cesasinists