Christian Group arrested while spreading Christmas cheer at Calgary City Hall

CALGARY, Alberta, December 22, 2011

http://streetchurch.ca/index.php/20111223811/News/Media/Christian-Group-arrested-while-spreading-Christmas-cheer-at-Calgary-City-Hall.html

Members of a Christian group in Calgary were disrupted from Christmas caroling and reading the Bible in the City Hall’s atrium after police and security officials arrested a number of them, charging them with trespassing.

City officials say that the group had been warned when they held a similar event previously that they must apply for a permit to hold an organized event in City Hall’s atrium.

“They failed to apply and the police were notified after last week’s event,” said Owen Key, the city’s manager of corporate security to the Calgary Herald. “They repeated that today, again not submitting an application through the approved process, choosing to hold this service again in the atrium.”

However, Christian Pastor Artur Pawlowski told LSN that he would like to “follow all the rules and do the permits, but in the permit process there is stuff that is simply unconstitutional” adding that he and his group will not “sign a document that is breaking the law.”

Pawlowski pointed to the liability clause in the permit application process that he says requires everyone who gathers at the City Hall to have insurance. He thinks that this amounts to prohibiting the public from exercising their rights.

Describing his arrest, Pawlowski said: “I was approached by corporate security and was told that what we are doing here was illegal, that we were breaking a bylaw. I asked which bylaw? They refused to tell me which bylaw, probably because there is no such bylaw.”

On Tuesday, Pawlowski along with about 30 Christmas merry-makers entered the City Hall about noon during the lunch hour. “We brought Bibles, we brought a guitar and a bongo drum, so that with the rest of citizens, we would remind ourselves that this time of the year has been used for hundreds of years as a time to celebrate the birth of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ,” wrote Pawlowski on his blog.

The group of Christians, known as Street Church Ministries, maintain that their appearance was in response to the invitation of Mayor Naheed Nenshi, who said during the Three Things for Calgary launch on October 21st that “City Hall Atrium is Calgary’s living room.”

“I always call it that, and we need to make it open for people to be able to use in a more thoughtful way,” said the mayor at that time.

Pawlowski recounted that after preaching 15 minutes worth of the Christian message and singing their first hymn, members of the group were seized by about 10 police officers and 4 to 5 security personal and escorted out of the building.

Some members of the group, including Pawlowski, decided to bring the situation immediately to the mayor’s attention.

“We decided that the top man that runs this city should be made aware of this matter and that he should have a word with City Hall’s Corporate Security team. There seems to be a big misunderstanding in this city about what citizens rights truly are. Who best to clear this matter up than the very man that gave the invitation,” wrote Pawlowski on his blog.

As they approached the mayor’s office, security guards allegedly locked the mayor’s office door and told the Christian group that the mayor was not available. After refusing to leave the building as they waited for the mayor to become available, the group of 6 were arrested.

“One lady was handcuffed so tightly that she had tears in her eyes. She was saying to them, ‘why are you doing this so hard? There is no need for this. Please loosen them up a little bit.’ But they did not listen to her,” said Pawlowski, adding that there was “no need for such roughness.”

In the end, six members of the group were arrested and the rest were given trespassing notices. One young man who was arrested was allegedly taken into a police car, driven to the outskirts of the city, and left to find his own way home.

Pawlowski said that the police did not take him and his arrested companions to the waiting paddy wagon, but made them walk handcuffed through the LRT station to the police station.

Pawlowski, who lived under Communist rule as a child in Poland said that the actions of the police and security personal reminded him of threat tactics used by the nazis and communists to intimidate and embarrass people.

“Can you imagine being handcuffed like a criminal, taken to the LRT station with hundreds of people watching you?” he said.

The church members were each fined $287 with a note explaining that each “failed to leave land when directed.” Each was released with a summons to appear in court.

“At the end of the day,” wrote Pawlowski on his blog “if we do not push against this sick agenda of political correctness and this open silencing of people’s beliefs and convictions, as in the past generations, we will face ungodly rulers that will simply create a dictatorship out of our once free land.”

“At the end of the day,” wrote Pawlowski on his blog “if we do not push against this sick agenda of political correctness and this open silencing of people’s beliefs and convictions, as in the past generations, we will face ungodly rulers that will simply create a dictatorship out of our once free land.”

This statement confuses me. Is it our gospel mission – and purpose - to push against a perceived "sick agenda"?

EDIT PS: I wonder how persecuted Christianity would compare... Still I trust that God will use these efforts.

Diane

I kinda wonder if it was the Holy Spirit whom led them back to city hall; or, if it was the pastor himself, whom was guided by a different spirit - I wonder if his motivation was to prove some point, or only to share the Gospel in lowliness of mind, or "both"?
I'm kind of curious - not to judge the man; I'm just curious if it is out of a pure heart, or just "religious" zeal? I have friends in those parts.
I think what I'm more curious about is who will pay for their fines? - the individuals themselves, or the pastor that led them there?

Yeshuaboy, You can learn more about this group by visiting their website found here:
http://www.marchforjesus.ca/

This group is trying to raise money needed for advertizing and for their March for Jesus parade (over $100,000). Also, it seems that their aim is to preserve religious rights by making a LOUD statement about their presence. None of these aims stirs my sympathy. I suspect they are "persecuted" because they are unsubmissive in their attitudes towards the state.

I wonder if the energy, bright colors, chanting, and enormous zeal seen in the parade clips doesn't remind some observers of Gay Pride parades.

I would like to believe we aren't seeing merely a Christian Pride parade in the public square .... but for now, I will need some convincing.

I could be wrong.

Diane

Thanks Diane.
I'm wondering in myself right now as to why this topic is bringing a tear to my eye.
I recall back in the early 90s when a friend and I were strolling down Whyte Ave in Edmonton, AB - walking by this group of young adults pressed up against the wall of this building on the corner, preaching condemnation to sinners, and as I was walking by this pretty, young girl jumped out at me from among them and grabbed my jacket, and said, "stay with us!" Well, in my mind I freaked out - Her expression terrified me, and I thought girl, if you knew me, you wouldn't dare touch me, nor ask me such a thing. Anyway, I just kinda tore myself away from her in a split second. She had guts it seemed, but lacked wisdom. The group seemed militant to me. It all happened in 10 seconds or less.
My point is, I fear for people, especially young girls who are being led by such militant groups. The devil is cunning and works through many "religious"... (I'd even call them) cults, praying on young people living on our big city streets.
God help us. Blind leaders of the blind both about to fall into the ditch of blackness for all eternity. I do hope this group isn't such!

I'd rather let God tell you if you're right our wrong.
To me, it all depends on the spirit in which one does something - rememmber friend, many on that great and terrible Day of Judgment will be told, "I never knew you."

While we can agree about the increasing opposition to Christ's name, we would do well to remember these words:

"God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." Rom. 2:24

Contemporary conservative Christianity may have done well focusing on Romans 1, but we have been reluctant to move into Romans 2 and admit the log in our own eye (I speak collectively).

Far better, I believe, to face our own sins than to rise up against the "sins" of the state with smug self righteous indignation - which merely fuels their blasphemous attacks on the name of the Lord - and also their need to protect society from these "intolerant" religious zealots.

It is better to be persecuted for doing good, rather than for putting the name of God to shame - even through our efforts to defend his name.

Diane

Blaine, if you're looking for an argument you won't get it from me.
No one thus far on this thread has argued against you, but you seem to be just goin off on some tangent... So be it.
Be aware that a man reaps what he sows.
If you're arguing against what I said, just be straight up and say so. If it's Diane, or somebody else, just take their quote in its context of course, and I'm quite sure you'll get a debate happening.
I didn't say nothing wrong as far as I know; but if I did, then just point it out to me, or whoever did so.

I'll just add your quote Blaine from your previous post here on this thread:
"Yes I know you would prefer to debate your theology in this cyberspace."
Who does "you" refer to? Do you know any of the members here who have posted earlier in this thread? Do you know their own walk with Christ?

Again only God can judge the motive of men's hearts

This is true. God knows when persecution arises from prideful ambition (even if we don't). It is also true that any group of Christians comprises a mixture of motives. There will always be some going along for the “ride” ( the blessing), while some carry the vision. It was that way when Jesus fed the 5,000, and when the crowds sang “Hosanna”. Furthermore, today we cannot know who will persevere in times of real testing. Zeal gives no indication.

but even Paul said whether from false motives or true Christ is preached.

Yes, even preaching Christ is not a mark of godliness though God may use it! But surely Christians cannot hide behind that possibility to absolve themselves from the damage they have done, indisputably, to Christ’s name.

It seems we are branching out into diverse issues that really need separate treatment: the Romans 2 indictment… motives …. judging ….. persecution for right reasons…. for wrong reasons. (Ohhh... how do we manage to complicate simple themes?? )

Here's my "clever" thought for the day: If we can avoid being confrontational with each other - we can surly avoid the very predicament that our zealous Jesus-Marchers marched themselves into.

Diane

OOOOH boy what would you guys have to say about reckless hooligans like Paul, Barnabus, John, Mark, Luke,and the hundreds of others who entered into places they were told to stay out of and preached the gospel.
You are really treading on dangerous ground questioning the nature of the Spirit that motivates these witnesses. Seems to me that some posters here need to examine the spirit that moves them, as there are a couple here who continually trash talk against anyone who runs afoul of the "law" when sharing thier witness. REALLY no comparing what this group does with Phelps, really out of line. I have to wonder what efforts others here are doing to share thier faith, other than jumping on every chance to smear the efforts of others? Blessings Greg

Ya, it's a pretty touchy subject Greg.
I kinda don't know what to think about it at this time.
I know Christ Jesus was a gentleman. The only people He really let have it were the Scribes and Pharisees of His time.
When it came time to pay taxes though, He sent His disciple(s) to gather the coin from the fish's mouth, (if I recall) lest they would be offended.
There is a time for everything under the sun.
I believe it's also one thing to be persecuted for the sake of righteousness, and another for the sake of stupidity.
I'm generalizing here - as far as this movement goes, I really don't know; but, I'll be honest - I wouldn't partner with them unless the Lord told me to.
As far as what's in a man's heart goes, well, out of his own mouth proceeds that which is in his own heart.
If I don't discern a sense of humility behind it, then I don't go near it, nor take it on board.
I recall that pharisee in Acts, I believe, that said something like, "if it isn't of God, it will come to nothing; however, if it is of God, be careful lest you be fighting against the Lord."

Actually Paul, kept within the confines of the Law, if he didn't he never would have wrote Romans 13:1-3

"1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same."

Paul was falsely accused and arrested, these individuals failed to file for a permit the law and governing authorities required of them. Jesus didn't break the law of the governing authorities, Peter fished and received a fish with two gold coins in his mouth for taxes.

Bottonline is we are to respect the Laws of the Land, don't like the laws of the land? Then Move. But it hurts our Christian witness when we try to be above the law everyone else is under and then when the "law enforcement" officers go to do their job we yell discrimination. It's not like this group was unaware of getting a permit they had a whole year. As for the insurance thing, your playing the bongos and playing a guitar and singing what could you possibly need insurance for?

We are not above the law because ultimately God has established that Authority for whatever reason for His Glory. I work with Law Enforcement Officers and these guys are no nonsense personalities that just want to do their job which is enforce the law. If they wanted to meet with the mayor they should have schedule a meeting with him and if he felt it was a big issue they could have gone to their city council meeting and be added on their agenda because in truth the mayor has very little power in the politics of a city really its the city council that makes some of the major decisions in the city.

I am seeing a need to draw finer lines between what is truly done for God and what is not.

Jesus said, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s”. Romans expounds on this: “Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes …. If respect, then respect, if honor, then honor. Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another.” Rom. 13:7

When our state authorities are viewed, less as a recipient of our indebted honor and respect than as a means to advance our own interests - then we are violating God’s law in our hearts. That’s what I see as a problem with these Jesus Marchers – at least the quote I posted earlier. The apostle Paul was arrested for very different reasons.

Let’s admit, freedom of religious expression is not the same thing as freedom in Christ through salvation. We do not need the state to ensure our freedom in Christ. And we do not need freedom of religious expression in order to fulfill God's call on us.

If we can’t find a Jesus card in the store, we can write our own greetings on a blank card. Actually that exercise would do us good! It makes us think for ourselves.

If we can’t sing our Jesus songs and play bongos in the Town Hall, we can join a community choir and sing the Halleluiah Chorus and “Jesus, I want Jesus” in a legitimate concert venue. (I’m in Canada, and that happens here!) Besides, having to submit to a choir director does one’s musical aptitude a lot of good – if not their character.

If we can’t have a Jesus parade on the streets we can invite the town counselors to our homes for dinner and befriend them. That’s more effective anyway because then they can see who we really are - and hopefully meet Jesus through our character qualities. And we can always volunteer in a soup kitchen.

If we can’t have the Lord’s Prayer in school, we can pray in our “closets” – which is more effective anyway.

And on it goes…..

If God's people aren't striving to develop and use the freedoms they already have in Christ, why should the state to give them freedom of religious expression? You might merely end up having the Crusades all over again.

Diane

I thought I read on their blog, that they refused to get a permit because it required each in the group to have insurance. What kind? I don't know. I may of not read it right. They thought this was unconstitutional and decided to do it anyway. God knows the motives.

Whether we want to admit it or not, Christianity is more and more being discriminated against in the western world. It is sad, however we need to be witnesses for Christ (not fred phelps style(which isn't according to truth anyway) or angry preacher style, but show the love of Christ).

Great points Matt and Diane.
It is good to keep one's conscience void of offence with God and man.
I spent enough time in my past going contrary against the law of the land to my own shame, and to my own destruction.
Truly, we live in Canada here, and I don't see a need to get into someone's face about my own beliefs. I've seen blessings go onto others by just working behind the scenes and supporting my brothers and sisters in meek and lowly ways.

Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

I believe there might be a lesson here. It would be a good idea for those of us here who are Christians, and not athiests, mormons,jahova witnesses, and any other person here that intends to cause confusion, that you take a couple of hours and read the book of Acts again. Then you can give a proper response to those who would attempt to distort the truth.
It would be a good idea if the above mentioned people prayerfuly read the book of Acts to. It really can transform your life. Blessings Greg
ps. It may be a real shock to some of you, but not all who use this forum are Christians.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

i'm not talking about 'rebellion' in the sense of violence, division, screaming, protesting, sedition
.....i'm speaking of learning how to zig, when the sons of darkness expect you to zag...the Early Church knew how to operate like this; when the zealots, those violent rebels started to act up, most every follower of Jesus was OUT of Jerusalem, that was not a 'party' God told told them to attend, coz the end of that was the destruction of Jerusalem by the dread romans.

No one would question the foolishness of those Jews who fought against the Romans. But it wasn't their "violence, division, screaming, protesting, sedition..." that was the issue: It was their inability to distinguish God's kingdom from earthly kingdoms. Many Christians today are just as deceived about the kingdom of God - even if they do speak politely to government officials. The sin problem is their beliefs, not merely their behavior. They end up fighting for the wrong kingdom with the weapons of the flesh instead of the armor of God.

It's possible to march for the wrong Jesus - the same Jesus that many people wanted even in his day: A king with political clout, who would defend an earthy kingdom - and liberate his followers from oppressive occupation.

I do not question the possibility of persecution in the future. But I suspect that our persecutors will be those who are zealous to defend an earthly kind of Christianity. Some day, if I don't join their band wagon - I will be the infidel - the enemy of God. As has happened throughout history, it will be zealous professing Christians who stand against God's kingdom people. That's why Jesus was crucified.

If Jesus marchers (or any Christian group) do not take a serious look at this pervasive pattern in church history- and examine it in light of scriptures teaching on God's kingdom, they may some day find themselves marching down the very road they tried to avoid. They may even give cause for the government to crack down further and further on religious expression, thus putting God's own people at risk. It's happened over and over and over again. And it's already happening in our nations.

Diane

HazWelling
Are you a Jew who follows Jesus, or are you a Christian that happens to be of Jewish heritage. Do you continue to honor Jewish traditions and observe all the holidays and festivals with a little Jesus on the side. Or have you committed your life to Jesus as your savior, with no need to try and please God with strict observence of Jewish traditions.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Blessings Greg

Brothers, this is my two cents. I really feel a mild rebuke in love is in place here. For those of us who are critizing this group, I am not hearing anyone share how God has led them to evangelize the lost in a better way.

If we don't agree with the way they reach out to this lost and dying world with the message of Christ crucified and resurrected, can we share how God has led us to reach out to the lost, or is it all just theory?

We can critize these fellow believers all day and accuse them of being in the flesh in their methods. But the question remains, what are we doing to get the gospel out to people headed for hell?

Too many times I run into "Christians" on the streets who come up to us and tell us that we shouldn't be evangelizing or preaching to the lost the way we do. And when I ask them how they do it they say they don't, that they mostly let their life and actions speak for themselves. But that's not what my Bible tells me. My Bible says "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature", it tells me "cry aloud and spare not, lift up your voice like a trumpet, and declare to My people their transgression".

With regard to submitting to authority, I agree there is a time and place for that. But there is also a time to disobey. What did Peter say to the authorities when they told him not to preach Christ? He said he will obey God rather than men. And did he not go to the same location after he had been kicked out of it?

Bottom line is, if this group is preaching the true gospel, which it appears they are, let's not come against them but rather pray for them. Amen?

HazWelling
Brother: There is certainly no time like the early early morning to come into the presence of the LORD. Please know that I was not questioning your faith, I just felt a need for clarification of you statement about being a Jew who follows Jesus. I would hope to cause some concern myself if I called myself a Scottish Irish Canadian who followed Jesus.
We live in a world today where being a "Christian" has become something like a buffet of beliefs, where you can pick and choose some template that is the latest religious fad and it becomes a part of the service. The following scripture clearly tells us what we need to be about as the day draws closer.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
I have been wandering in a desert of indiffrence(?) and neglect to the needful things for a couple of years. In the past I have been part of a street mission, and a street evangelization team for years, but in the last couple of years I have let that all fall to the side as I had been involved in renovating some property I had purchased 300 miles away in another province. Not a bad thing in itself, however it required travelling back and forth on the weekend and slowly loosing contact with my church and growing reckless with my choices.
I share this with you all because it happens slowly, and one day you just come to the point that you do not even recognize yourself any more. I have no right to challenge anyone elses faith, however it is important for me to clarify where someone else is coming from with all the falsehood that has flooded our churches today.
Several years ago my wife and I lived in a little lake village called Alberta Beach. One day I was wondering about a distinctive name for internet forums. It just so happened that there was a huge forest fire burning near the small town of Flatbush where I had grown up, and the air was full of wood smoke, thus the name Smokey was born. Blessings to all. Greg

HezWelling wrote:
well Greg, the sad truth is Jews are very scared of "christians", i lower cased that, because they're scared of over 1700 years , sons of the darkness, who called themselves, 'christians' engaged in the worst sort of murder, and rape against the Jews,

God bless you,
Lisa

"We can criticize these fellow believers all day and accuse them of being in the flesh in their methods. But the question remains, what are we doing to get the gospel out to people headed for hell?"

Yes, God uses Jesus Marchers as much as he uses people in any branch of Christianity. We can’t accuse everyone of fleshly motives. But neither can we “pull that card” as a means of sidestepping a serious concern. If I recall, it was Art Katz who criticized the preponderance of fleshliness in our modern methods of evangelism, which has defiled the name of the Lord in the eyes of the unsaved. Katz uses the word “stench” or something like it. I believe Katz is perceptive in this regard. And I don’t think any of us are in the wrong because we are drawing attention to some red flags we see. In this regard, I concur with this earlier response:

I personally am not trying to highlight this particular group, but rather discussing, tweaking, sharping iron with iron and learning from all of you how we should conduct ourselves.

I apply the “sharpener” to Blaine’s comment here:

That being said let us not miss the dynamic that a hostility, dare I say hatred of Jesus Christ is being sown in Canadian and the United States.

This is surely evident! Yet we would not deny that a Christian's type of faith is going to determine how he or she responds to the threatening clouds. One type of Christian will respond with faith; the other with fear. The difference is huge! This is the fork in the road - dividing authentic faith in Christ from pseudo-faith. The later have a fleshly faith – reliance on man: self, the government, and methods. Because these Christians are fear driven, they will react to threats against the gospel in one of two typical ways: by “fight” or by “flight”. I believe that this explains why we see in the church evidence of rising militancy (fighters) and also of rising denial (flight-ers). Both reactions will intensify as opposition increases. Both "sides", though equally fear driven, will condemn the other. Those who are more combative in nature (often the religious right) will condemn those who are more "tolerant"-seeking (often the religious left) ... and vice versa. Regardless, both sides will cause the image of Christ to be distorted regardless of evangelistic methods - because the messengers are not faith-driven. Actually, any fear-driven kind of reaction, in the face of rising opposition, will ultimately resist authentic faith.

That's the way I see it.

Persecution will test the authenticity of our faith – even as it confronts all our fears and false reliances. Persecution has a place in God's kingdom purposes. We need not be driven by fear of it!

Diane

I've seen many people say in their lives that they will do this or that when the time comes - then, when it comes, they flop, they fail to do the very things that they said they would.
What's that old proverb - "Be careful if you think you're standing firm lest you fall"?
I've also seen the very people who talk the least about what they do usually do the most - kinda like "new money" or "old money" folk - the new brag about what they have, and what they buy, and what they do for others; the old... Well, they're pretty much "ordinary" folk.
Blaine, you speak about Canada's government - I say, who cares about what they may do, or may not do - I can't control that. If God makes allowance for the government to ban Christianity from public places, so be it, I'm not gonna fret about it.
If I end up losing everything for the sake of Christ, and I'm a christian - a christian will rejoice. Their mind is set on heavenly things, not earthly, being strangers and pilgrims, children of Abraham, and children of Christ.
But, this whole 'what will you do when "these things" happen?', and then to answer, "I will do this and that", to me, is just plain glorifying in my own righteousness, being presumptuous, I sense a sort of spiritual pride in it. If anything, only God can make me stand in any evil day, and how He enables me to stand is up to Him - without Him I can do nothing now, nor in the time to come.
I'd like to say though for the record, that I'm not against this group in Calgary - God may be using them, or not, I don't know; but I think He is allowing these things that they're doin to happen.
I feel the Lord just telling me - "Just never mind them; follow Me."
Anyway, no offense to no-one, but I've said enough myself on this issue, and I'm bowing out of this topic now. See you all in another thread, Lord willing.
To Him be the glory, and the honour, forever and ever, Amen.

To just add quickly - if one is going to begin worrying about what will happen when these things begin to take place, I would suggest grabbing your Strong's concordance and looking up the word "worry" and doing a study on it - especially what the Lord Himself spoke using the word "worry" - you will find it to be rooted in unbelief.
And be careful to read about what the spies said that brought back a false report to the people after spying out the land of promise. We must be of a different spirit - like Joshua, like Caleb; but really like new creatures in Christ.

What will you fo when the Canadian government declares the worship of Jesus illegal? What will you do when the Canadian government declares the Bible illegal? What eill you do when the Canadian government declares evangelism illegal?

Here’s my response: Opposition to our Christianity is not merely a future issue coming through some upcoming anti-Christian law. It comes in other ways – not just legislation. Values get embedded into people’s consciences and they then function as laws. These laws are formed, not by the state, but by social practice, by our education values, by peers, by media, and so forth. They may be implicit, unspoken, and even unconscious. We come to know the power of these laws when we violate them. In many social contexts we can be sure that raising the subject of “God” is going to be prohibitive – and anyone who tries is likely to experience some sense of shaming or shunning – even if very subtle. The collective conscience functions as a powerful law. Most people simply do not violate this "law", especially if their own consciences operate according to the law of social conformity.

So then – the court of law which believers must come to recognize is not the government, but the conscience – first of all, their own conscience.

What will you do when the Canadian government says it is supreme and it is to be worshipped?

The actual moral problem is not these institutions, but people’s reliance on them. If Christians (I use that term loosely) trust the state for their well being, then they will also expect the state to protect their religious interests (whatever version that is). The real area of concern then is not the state, but the consciences of the people. And really, this is where the state gains its power. Christians give the state power by depending on it for religious freedoms – along with the many other forms of security that it provides (or claims to).

I am assuming the Canadian constitution like the American one guarantees freedom of religion. Sister this is a myth. What once was freedom of religion is now being coopted.

There is an antichrist spirit that is making the state god.

The questions I have posted above will have to weigh on each saints mind. Will they worship Caesar or Christ. That is the question.

One more thought: State authorities must aim to keep civil peace. From their perspective, by conceding to radical Christians, they risk reprisals from a host of other interest groups - the radical Muslims, the Gay Pride camp, the atheists, etc. Why would Christians want to fuel these causes by insisting on special rights for themselves. It will simply work against them in the long run, and will do nothing for the cause of Christ. Remember, the issue is the conscience of each person we encounter each day – beginning with our own.

Diane

Maybe its time we put this issue to rest and move on to other things.

Maybe so. It’s a topic that will no doubt surface elsewhere. It’s barely begun.

Blessings,
Diane