An omniscient God foresees Christ yet establishes law 'forever'

In Leviticus 7, God is commanding Moses on His laws governing sacrifices and offerings. God stipulates which and how much of the oblations are to be for Aron and his sons, and in verse 36 says that this stipulation is to be 'for ever:'

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Lev 7:36 Which the LORD commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute for ever throughout their generations.
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My question is how does an omniscient God stipulate this command to be 'for ever' with the knowledge of Christ to come and take away 'the first' and establish 'the second' a la Hebrews 10:9-10?

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Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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The law is established forever by being fulfilled in Christ.

Yes of course. Yet, the law is established forever by the first being taken away and the second established.

The taking away of the first explicitly means that it was not established forever. It is Christ's work that is established forever. Indeed:

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Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
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or:

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Heb 10:8 ...Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
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So, my understanding is that God establishes the law (first) knowing:

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Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
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and yet says of the practices of giving a share to Aron and his sons that it is 'forever.' So my guess is that (maybe) this 'forever' is more akin to 'always.' So it is always to be this way (until the second is established).

Any other comments? I'll look into the original language. . .

Quote: """Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure."""

But! to this day Israel is preparing to implement the temple offerings and sacrifices. That is why we must separate the old from the new. In Christ all things have become New, but Israel still won't believe that their Messiah has already come.

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. In these last days God has spoken to us by His Son, not from behind the curtain that was torn from top to bottom to get to the Holy of Hollies, the Holy of Holies is now Christ and His Spirit that is in us.

In Christ: Phillip

God commanded it forever in Christ Jesus, at this time in Lev He was giving a picture of Him who would come. At least that is the way I understand. Hebrews talks as if the first was replaced, and in our sight in time it was. But the Law is a picture of Christ and all that He is and does.

First, Jesus Christ did not die for the Law... "He did not teach the law and died for it..." (sigh)

Leviticus points to Jesus Christ, not to itself. Jesus Christ is bigger then the five books of Moses as they speak of Him. He is eternal, everlasting. He was before the Leviticus Law, and He is going to be once all has passed away. His words remain forever. Yes, His commandments align with the Law because He gave Moses the Law. But we live by the Spirit, if not then we have not Jesus... Keeping the Law without the Spirit isn't what is to be taught friend.

We must bear in mind that we are dealing with a covenant concept. When we think about covenants we need to know that at death covenants are voided. Otherwise slavery would extend into eternity. There are numerous places (>600) in the OT where the word translated 'for ever' (AV olam) or forever (in other versions) is found. The simplest answer to this is found as we examine Exodus 21:6.

His master shall lead him to the tribunal of God, and then he shall lead him to the door at the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with a small awl, and he shall be subject to him forever. (Exodus 21:6)

Here forever is aion (LXX) and olam in Hebrew (MSS). The one desiring to remain in the home beyond his first obligation could opt for this ceremony that is said to make the slave subject to the slave master 'forever' (olam). Obviously this is impossible in the normal sense of 'forever' because these type contracts are off at death while others, such as a testament, go into force at death. In the same sense the Old Covenant ends at death.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (Romans 7:4)

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. (Galatians 2:19)

The law was 'added' because of transgressions until the Seed should come to whom the promises were made. That Seed is Jesus Christ. They that have been baptized into Jesus Christ by the Spirit experience both death to the Law and death to the Sin. This is what Paul explains to us. Moreover, it is worth pointing out that practicing Orthodox Jews (non-Karaite Jews) typically do not view the Law in a strict constructionism, but view it as a 'living document' in much the same way some view the Constitution of the USA as a living document. They have been making void the Law through their traditions wholesale for over 2000 years through a system of halaka.

Also bear in mind that the writer to the Hebrews told us before the Temple was destroyed that the First Covenant which had waxed old was ready to vanish away. It passed away in 70AD when Titus destroyed the Temple and the priesthood. From that time unto this there has been no way to service the covenant. Blood sacrifice is the only way to bring remission of sins under that First Covenant. The Titus Arch in Rome is one of the great reminders of the ending of the First Covenant. It was built in around AD 81 in part by some of the Jews that were taken captive by Titus when he took Jerusalem. The sobering aspect of this picture is the carrying away of the Golden Lampstand. It had stood to signify that Israel in the Land was to be a light to the nations. To a large degree they failed, and there was nothing left but to sweep the last vestiges of the Old Covenant system away to make way for the New Covenant. From this point forward there would be absolutely no way to maintenance the Covenant. By reason of death the Aaronic priesthood was not allowed to continue. The Ark was taken when they were carried to Babylon and the Sacred Fire was long extinguished. No Sacred Fire-no service. In Christ the Jews could then come under the New Covenant and its eternal Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. The Temple of God tabernacling among men was established through the Blood of Christ, His Priesthood, the baptism of Fire signified over the heads of the people, etc. were all signs of the Old vanishing and the New having come. etc. etc.

I have been told the term 'forever' refers to a long time. The term 'forever and ever' means indefinitely. Jimmy, you are a Bible scholar, what do you say?

theEphah, so unless I quote scripture then I'm silenced?

"The last time I checked, forever meant forever," did you really check or is that sarcasm? Can you give some scripture on that?

"you're advocating the pre-existence theory..." yeah, Jesus is eternal. Are you saying the Son of God wasn't given?

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain -from the creation of the world-. -Rev 13:8

So since He was slain from the creation of the world, it is safe to say that the Law is a shadow of things to come, which have now passed, we now live by the Spirit or we are dead in our sins.

Theephah:

Simple question; Do you believe that keeping the perfect and righteous Law of God will save you and keep you saved?

In Christ: Phillip

Friend I understand what you mean. However, this is something many people do and you know what? You are taking away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is GOOD NEWS, not bad news. God doesn't need you to dampen the Good News with threats of not keeping the Law. A child can understand that Jesus died for them and if they will respond to that, He will save them. God can do a much better job with conviction, through the writting of the Law on mans heart, and through the Holy Spirit then any of us.

Beware, if you intend on calling Jesus's bride wicked or a whore. I'm not going to stand by and let you speak to my wife in this manner, how much more is Jesus going to repay those who not only try to put His bride back under the weak law but also defame her with name calling and backbiting.

We have already, everyone of us, broken the Law. Period. That means death however Jesus died for you and me. He took that punishment we must put our trust in Him and believe that He did. When you recieve the Holy Spirit and have a firm grasp on what He did for you and me then you are not going to have to think of what you can and can't do but you will only want to please Him and walk in unity with Him. The Law is on our hearts!

ginnyrose wrote:

I have been told the term 'forever' refers to a long time. The term 'forever and ever' means indefinitely. Jimmy, you are a Bible scholar, what do you say?

Context, context, context. It depends. Sometimes "forever" is used as a hyperbolic literary device. Sometimes it is used as an indefinite period of time. Much as the word "day" can refer to an unspecified period of time, or a definite 24 hour period. Again, context is king.

There is a very striking image in the Old Testament that I think speaks to this issue of "fulfillment," and corresponds to what Christ has done in regard to "fulfilling" the Law. Under the old covenant, the Levitical priesthood was appointed to carry around the ark of the covenant. It was one of their primary ministerial functions, as the ark of the covenant resided in the Tabernacle, and was always "on the go." They had been charged to do this ministry, "forever."

However, the time came in which the pop-up portable Tabernacle was replaced with the immovable Temple building which was set in stone. When the Temple replaced the Tabernacle, the official function of the Levitical priesthood in regard to their sacred duty to be transporters of the ark of the covenant came to an end. The law that dictated they carry out this ministry function was still "on the books" so to say. But their ministry as the ark bearers had come to an end, because the erecting of the Temple structure "fulfilled" their duties, for something greater than the Tabernacle had come into being. The priests no longer had to carry the ark of the covenant, because the ark had finally come to a rest.

In the same way, Jesus Christ has fulfilled the requirements of the Law. For as he said, something greater than Solomon (and all that he represented) was now here. Christ fulfilled all the demands of the Law. And although all those laws are still "on the books," we are no longer obligated to them, because something greater than the Tabernacle has come. And as the Temple gave the ark of the covenant rest, so Christ has given us rest.

Therefore, let it be said that people who trouble you with keeping the laws of the Old Covenant, be it in tithing, circumcision, dietary restrictions, sabbath keeping, etc., while often sincere, are sincerely wrong in their perspectives. They have yet to have a revelation of the significance of the work of Christ on the cross, and what the New Covenvant represents. It is no wonder the apostle Paul was "troubled" by individuals, whether Jew or Greek, who insisted on observing the Old Covenant laws. For they have yet to see all 613 of those laws are "forever" fulfilled by Christ. Many of them have yet to realize that Christ has "kept" the law perfectly for them. And in His keeping of the law, we have kept it in full through Him.

Even should you keep the commandments 100% without flaw for the rest of the days of your life, this will by no means earn or otherwise secure and allow you to continue on in your salvation. It comes through trusting in "the obedience of the One" (Romans 5:19) that we are and stay saved.

Obedience to what? How do you show obedience friend?

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

He is my obedience. In Him, I have kept the Law perfectly. Christ fulfilled its every obligation and command for me and in me.

It's the only way! Deception is a choice. Choose life.

In Lev we see the love of God and His grace. Continually we see them returning to make sacrifices for sin. Continual covering of there sins through animal sacrifice. Even the High Priest, once a year, entered the Most Holy of places where the Spirit of God dwelled. If he had any sin, he would die. This is a picture of Jesus Christ our Lord. By one mans righteousness we can go to God because He is perfect.

You are going down the wrong path. Now you are wanting to teach others the wrong path. Beware! The sad part is you are saying the words you need to heed, "Deception is a choice."

theEphah

Do you keep all the commandments? If not who is your high Priest making atonement for sin? Under the Law there is no more animal sacrifice for Israel who were God's own chosen people, If Israel cannot make blood atonement anymore how are we the Gentiles supposed to Keep the Law of blood atonement. What is your standard of perfection? Col 1: 27-29

In Christ: Phillip

"through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men"

I don't agree with that, is that from the works rightheousness bible? Let me put in a word of His grace:

Romans 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now we have to see that the consequence of Adam's fall affected all, no matter what. Wherelse the rightheousness in Christ is not compulsory per se for all, it depended first on the obedience of Jesus, which is not my obedience, and then there is my obedience to Him, which is the only valid response of faith to the gift offered. This is salvation:

Hebrews 5:9  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Saved people don't need commandments. Only sinners do.

This is probably the clearest and most understandable article I have read on the Law of God. This article should liberate the confused. by James Fowler.

God instituted the Law with planned obsolescence. There was a divinely determined termination of the Law. There is Scriptural evidence for the finality of the Law and the awareness that "Christ is the end of the Law..." (Rom. 10:4).

Jesus was "born under the Law" (Gal. 4:4)

and circumcised according to the Law (Luke 2:21).

He went to the temple at twelve years of age (Luke 2:42), apparently to become a "son of the Law."

During His ministry He was agitated at the Jewish leaders and lawyers who "neglected the commandment" (Mark 7:8),

"set aside the commandment" (Mark 7:9),

"transgressed the commandment" (Matt. 15:3), and

"invalidated the word of God" (Mark 7:13; Matt. 15:6),

by setting their own religious traditions and interpretations ahead of the Law.

On the other hand, we observe Jesus disassociating Himself from the Law. When speaking to the Jews He referred to "your Law" (John 8:17; 10:34). When speaking to His disciples of the Jews, He refers to "their Law" (John 15:25).

On occasion He seems to reinterpret the Law. Repeatedly in Matthew 5:21-48 Jesus contrasts the statement of the Law and His own statement. "The Law says....., but I say.....," thereby reinterpreting the Law.

The relativity of the Law is indicated in Mark 10:2-12 when Jesus explained that it was "because of your hardness of heart that Moses wrote this commandment" granting the right of divorce.

Jesus violated the Law of the Sabbath repeatedly (Matt. 12:1-14), and explained that "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Despite the admonition not to "add to" commandments (Deut. 4:2; 12:32), Jesus does just that, saying, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another as I have loved you" (John 13:34).

Having disassociated Himself from the Law by referring to "your Law" in John 10:34, Jesus goes on to quote their Law from Psalms 82:6. In His explanation of the use of this quotation Jesus makes a parenthetical comment, "and the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). Those who assert the inviolability of the Law use this verse to affirm the continuation of the Law. It is more likely that Jesus is being somewhat facetious and sarcastic, throwing their superstitious hermeneutical attitudes about the Law right back into their faces. His intended meaning seems to be, "You want to take every detail of the Old Testament in a direct, physical, literal sense; and if you do so, using your hermeneutics, then you cannot object to My calling Myself, God." He was exposing how religion so often reveres the Law, deifies the Law, and uses it for its own purposes.

On another occasion just after explaining the historical parameters of the Law "until John" (Luke 16:16), Jesus goes on to say, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail" (Luke 16:17). Skirting around the contradiction with the preceding statement, some have used this verse as a proof-text for the continuation of the Law. The context, once again, lends itself to the understanding that Jesus was caricaturing the rigid religious hermeneutics of the Pharisees. "It is more likely that the sky will fall down in a cosmic melt-down, than that you fellows will give up on a single point of your traditional and invalid Law-interpretations, which you use for your own self-justification (vs. 15); and what you do with the Law is detestable in the sight of God (vs. 15)."

The most popular proof-text of those who argue for the continuity of the Old Testament Law is Matthew 5:17-20. A more prolonged explanation of these verses is therefore in order.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish,..." (Matt. 5:17). The Greek word for "abolish" is kataluo, which has a root meaning "to set loose." Jesus was fully aware than He was inaugurating a "new covenant," radically different from the old covenant and the purpose of the Old Testament Law. But neither was it His purpose to disconnect or detach the old from the new. The same God was acting perfectly from the beginning. Jesus did not come to be an iconoclast, a Law-basher! He did not come to set loose the Law from its moorings in the activity of God. He did not come to set the Law adrift as a meaningless "social experiment" in religion and morality from the past. He did not come to "trash" the Law, to denounce it derisively as God's disaster of the Old Testament. He did not come to discount and devalue and defame the Law of the Old Testament as a failure, a fiasco, a "dud," a "raw deal," a plan that did not work. He did not come to write the Law off as God's mistake, as wrong, useless, having no good purpose. He did not come to demolish and tear down the Law in contempt and disgust. He did not come to denigrate, deprecate, depreciate, or decimate the Old Testament Law with disdain and derision. Jesus knew that the Law had served God's good purposes historically, both essentially and instrumentally.

Jesus then continues, "I came to fulfill the Law" (Matt. 5:17). In other words, "I came to fill the Law full; to bring to full fruition all that the Law pointed to pictorially and custodially." "I came to fulfill the Law, by being the dynamic directive of God, the living Torah, in the lives of His People." To "fulfill" means more than just to fulfill the promises and the prophecies historically. It carries with it the theological meaning of completing, actualizing, consummating the Law by becoming its full intended content.

"Until heaven and earth pass away, not iota or even one stroke of the Law shall pass away..." (Matt. 5:18). God's purposes for the Law are as firmly positioned as the heaven and the earth. There is a definite purpose for how the earth turns in the heavens. There was a definite purpose for the Law. But they both "come around" (parerxomai) to a "new day."

The Law does not "pass away until all is accomplished." The Greek word for "accomplished" is ginomai meaning "to become, to happen, to take place, to come to pass." When did all that God intended for the restoration of His creation in mankind happen or take place? In the death, resurrection, ascension and Pentecostal outpouring of Jesus Christ. God's purposes for the Law were accomplished in Jesus Christ. God's purpose for the restoration of His life to man was accomplished.

"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:19). Christians are participants in the "kingdom of heaven." (Luke 17:21). A Christian who "sets loose" (same Greek word, kataluo, as was used in vs. 17) to the Law, who discounts, devalues, derides, denigrates or disconnects the Law from the perfect activity of God, shall be called "least" because he is doing a disservice in misrepresenting God's perfect activity in human history.

"...but whoever keeps and teaches the commandments of God shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:19). How are we as Christians going to keep the commandments? The essential intent of the commandments is kept as Jesus functions as the Law-keeper in and through the Christ, manifesting the character of God by the grace of God. Those who live by grace and teach grace shall be called "great" in the kingdom of heaven.

"For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:20). Righteousness does not come by the law (Rom. 3:20,28; 10:4; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:11; 5:4). Human efforts to keep the Law produce only pseudo-righteousness, self-righteousness, unrighteousness. Such was the religious striving of the scribes and Pharisees. The righteousness that God desires in the Christian "comes from God on the basis of faith" (Phil. 3:9). It is the result of Jesus Christ, "the Righteous One" (I John 2:1) living in us. Righteousness in Christian behavior is the fruit (Eph. 5:9) of the Spirit of Christ manifesting His divinely righteous character in our behavior, evidencing "good works" which "glorify the Father in heaven" (Matt. 5:16). Such righteousness certainly surpasses the so-called righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees and evidences that we are participants in the kingdom of heaven.

In this important passage Jesus has affirmed the historical purposes of the Law but has not necessarily "confirmed" the continued efficacy of the Law. Much of the misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the import of Jesus' words is due to mistranslation of key words such as "set loose" and "fulfill."

Continuing then, we shall consider the affirmation of the Law in other passages of the New Testament.

Writing to the Romans Paul rhetorically asks, "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary we establish the Law" (Rom 3:31). Those who advocate continued application of the Law are quick to affirm that "the Law is not nullified," rather "the Law is established." Paul uses the Greek word katargeo, which is here translated "nullified." At the root of this word are two other Greek words, a meaning "no," and ergeo meaning "work." Paul is asking, "Are we saying that the Law did not work, that it was a failure historically? Most definitely not. We establish that the law served God purposes. We affirm that the Law "stands" within its historic purposes and validate the Law as having fulfilled its purposes." Contextually, Paul seems to be making the point that the disengagement of the Law does not necessarily crate an antinomianism which would allow for behavioral chaos in lawlessness, as would have been the assumption of Jewish thinking.

In Romans 7 Paul affirms the Law and its purposes in several verses. "The Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good" (Rom. 7:12). "The Law is spiritual" (Rom. 7:14). "...I agree with the Law, ...that it is good" (Rom. 7:16). Obviously Paul is not equating God and the Law as some seem to do, and thus in effect deify the Law. God is good and holy and righteous. Nothing else can be said to be "good and holy and righteous, in the same sense that God is essentially good and holy and righteous. Attributes of God are not to be attributed to something else. The statement that Paul makes here in Romans 7 must mean that the Law serves a beneficial purpose that is good, holy and righteous. Contextually, Paul is making the point that the Law is not to be faulted for our sinfulness. "Is the Law sin? May it never be (Rom. 7:7). The Law is good. There is nothing wrong with the Law. It served an instrumental purpose to expose our indwelling sinfulness (7:17). The Law is "spiritual." Not that it provided the indwelling dynamic of the Spirit of Christ, but it was used by the Spirit of God to serve the purposes of God. It was used instrumentally for a spiritual purpose, so that the law-directive of God might be internalized in out spirits (Heb. 8:10; 10:16), rather than just externalized in directives for external behavioral activities.

In Romans 8:4 Paul explains that "the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Walking by the Spirit, allowing the Spirit of Christ (8:9) to live in and through us, allows the character of God in Christ to be expressed in our behavior. This is what the Law required, but it did not provide the necessary enabling to fulfill.

I Cor. 7:19 is another text which affirms the Law but is often used to confirm the continued application of the Law. "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God." Using the man-made categories of Law, some argue that the ceremonial Law does not matter, but what matters is keeping the commandments of the moral law. Such employment of arbitrary categories for Biblical exegesis is illegitimate. It is more contextually appropriate to recognize that Paul was combatting the legalism that was being introduced into the Corinthian congregation by false teachers in contradistinction to his gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. Why would Paul capitulate and say that we should keep some of the Law, but not all of the Law, when he notes the inconsistency of such elsewhere? (Gal. 3:10;5:3) Paul is eschewing the keeping of all law and indicating that since we are "joined in one spirit with the Lord Jesus Christ" (6:17), what really matters is allowing the divine directive of the Lord Jesus Christ to function in and through us to manifest the character of God.

"Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be!" (Gal. 3:21) Paul is arguing that the promises given by God to Abraham (3:16) 430 years prior to the giving of the Law to Moses (3:17), have precedence over the Law. This does not mean that the Law is to be disdained or discounted as contrary or contradictory to the promises of God. The Law simply served its historical, instrumental purpose "until the seed" (Jesus Christ) should come, concerning whom the promise had been made.

James writes, "...if you judge the Law, you are not a doer of the Law, but a judge of it" (James 4:11). Some have claimed that to teach the inefficacy of the Law for Christians today is to "judge the law" as invalid, and thus to violate the intent of God. James is writing to Christians within a new covenant context. He explains that when we set ourselves up as self-appointed arbiters to criticize, condemn, find fault and judge our Christian brother, we set ourselves up to "play God," to "play Holy Spirit" in the life of another. This is an attempt to usurp the role of the Lordship of Jesus Christ in the life of our brother. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the Savior, Jesus Christ. We must never set ourselves above Him, attempting to judge or criticize or find fault with how He wants to implement His activity and character in another Christian brother. Instead, we are responsible to allow the "royal law" (2:8) of God's love, the "perfect law" (1:25), to be expressed in our behavior.

Another favorite proof-text of those advocating continued efficacy of the Law is I John 2:3,4 - "We know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." "Keeping His commandments" is not synonymous with keeping all the commandments of the Old Testament Law. All that Jesus inculcated by way of commandment in all of His imperatives, carry with them the understanding that He, Himself, is the keeper of His own commands, the dynamic of His own demands. The behavioral outworking of the character of Christ evidences that we "know Him" in personal relationship, union, communion and intimacy with the Lord Jesus Christ, and that the personal Truth of Jesus Christ (John 14:6) dwells in us, which is the only way anyone can manifest the character of God.

John later writes, "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness" (I John 3:4). Those who advocate continued law-keeping usually define sin as the failure to keep the Old Testament Law, and that because they have effectively equated Law with God and deified the Law. Sin is not to be defined merely as violation of Law, but as that which violates and is contrary to the character of God, which the Law was used to reveal partially in its essential purpose. The "mark that is missed" in sin is not a Law target, but the character of God. This verse is set in the context of explaining the incongruity of sinful behavior in the Christian life, because it is misrepresentative of the character of the One who indwells the Christian.

Again in I John 5:2,3, John urges Christians to "love God and observe His commandments. This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." The keeping of God's commandments is fulfilled in the outworking of Christ's life in Christian behavior. Loving character is the fulfillment of the Law (Rom. 13:8,10; Gal. 5:14). The character of the "God who is love" (I John 4:8,16) is manifested in the Christian. The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom He has given us" (Rom. 5:5).

In the sequences of Scriptures we have quoted concerning the affirmation of the Law, we note that the Old Testament Law is affirmed throughout the New Testament by Jesus, Himself, and by the New Testament writers. The Old Testament Law is affirmed as having been enacted, and thus the activity of a perfect, righteous God. There is nothing wrong with the Law. The Law is not sinful (Rom. 7:7). The Law is not to be denigrated or deprecated. These verses affirm God's historical purpose in using the Law as His instrument. They affirm that God accomplished what He wanted to accomplish with the Old Testament Law. It was not a failure or a disaster. It is not to be denounced and discounted as having had no good purpose.

What these verses do not affirm is the necessity of the continued use of the Old Testament Law today. They do not confirm the contemporary and/or perpetual efficacy of the Old Testament Law. Those who insist on the continued implementation of the Old Testament Law so often wrest their proof-texts from the context of the Scripture passages where they are found. These interpreters reveal an inadequate understanding of the new covenant provision of the grace of God in the risen Lord Jesus.

The Old Testament Law is affirmed as having been used historically by God, but not confirmed as continually efficacious. The next series of Scripture references explain the abrogation of the Law, that the Law has been repealed, annulled, abolished and rescinded.

The Law was inadequate to restore God's intent for man. The Law did not have a vital or functional purpose. It could not impart life (Gal. 3:21), and could not make anyone righteous either in spiritual condition or behavioral expression (Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:11; 5:4).
The Law could not free man from that which held him in bondage. Paul refers to "all of the things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses" (Acts 13:39).

There was no perfection through the Levitical priesthood and the Law (Heb. 7:11), therefore "a change of law" was required (Heb. 7:12), which involved "setting aside the former commandment" (Heb. 7:18), the Old Testament Law, invalidating the Law because of it weakness and uselessness. "The Law made nothing perfect" (Heb. 7:19). It was unable, inadequate, deficient to bring about God's intended objective to restore mankind by the presence of God in the man.

The Law was inadequate. "If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second" (Heb. 8:7).

The Law was also temporary. It was not established as a permanent basis of relationship between God and man. The Law and the Levitical priesthood were temporary, whereas Jesus Christ "abides forever, and holds His priesthood permanently" (Heb. 7:24).

The temporality of the Law is explicitly revealed in Heb. 8:13 - "He made the first (covenant) obsolete." The writer of Hebrews explains the obsolescence of the Law by using the Greek word palaioo, meaning "to make old, antiquated, out-moded, out-dated, a thing of the past." It was growing old, decaying, falling apart, and ready to vanish, disappear, be abolished. The service of the Law "fades away" (II Cor. 3:11) and no longer has glory. God "takes away the first (covenant) in order to establish the second (covenant)" (Heb. 10:9). The old is rescinded, removed, repealed, revoked.

An important verse for our consideration is Romans 10:4 - "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." It has already been noted that the Law was not an end in itself, but an instrumental "means to an end." That "end" is Jesus Christ. The Greek word for "end" is telos. This word can mean terminal-end, objective-end, or completion-end; terminus, objective or fulfillment. It could be argued that in Christ Jesus God intended the termination of the law being used to try to establish religious righteousness. We know, of course, that the Law continues to be misused by religionists to establish righteousness. Jesus Christ was the end-objective of the Law, the One to whom the Law was pointing in its instrumental purpose. Jesus is therefore the fulfillment and completion of the divine objective for the Law, thereby terminating the purposes thereof. The temporality of the provisional purposes of the Law were fulfilled, so that Christ is seen as the end-objective of the Law.

The Scriptures also indicate the abolishing of the Law. Paul wrote to the Ephesian Christians of Jesus Christ "abolishing...the Law of commandment in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). Jesus idled the Law. He unemployed the Law. He "laid it off," terminated its work. He disengaged the services of the Law, discharged the Law. Its job, its purpose was abolished.

The occasion of Christ's negating the effectual employment of the Law is revealed in Colossians 2:13,14 where Paul refers to Christ's "having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us...", that on the cross. "Canceling out" translates the same word used in Heb. 7:18, "setting aside." The word was used as a legal term and meant to annul, to repeal, to revoke, to rescind. It implies that the Law was abrogated and invalidated. The behavioral requirements of the Old Testament Law were "set aside," "canceled out," made void, vacated, negated, terminated and displaced. Jesus "paid the price" and "redeemed us from the curse of the Law" (Gal. 3:13), "redeeming those who were under the law" (Gal. 4:5).

Disassociation from the Law is also evidenced in Romans 3:21, when Paul explains that "now apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been manifested, having been witnessed to by the Law and the prophets." Jesus Christ, "the righteousness of God," has been manifested by His incarnation. This was prophetically witnessed to be the Law and the prophets, but Jesus has come without any association with the Law to bring righteousness by God's grace.

The subjective implications of the abolishment of the Law's authority in the lives of Christians are explained in several New Testament passages.

In the beginning verses of Romans 7 Paul uses the analogy of a wife no longer subject to a dead husband, but subject to a new husband. The point he makes is that Christians are no longer subject to the Law. "You were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God" (Rom. 7:4). The Law no longer has jurisdiction in the Christian's life. We are spiritually joined to the Lord Jesus Christ who has all jurisdiction in our life. L.S. Chafer writes

"The Christian is now under obligation to Christ. He is 'inlawed' to Christ. He has only to fulfill 'the law of Christ.' Certainly it is most unreasonable to propose that a woman should try to be obligated to two husbands at the same time: yet this is the divine illustration of the error of co-mingling the teachings of law and the teachings of grace. Spiritual polyandry is offensive to God."9

Continuing his argument Paul writes, "We died to that (the Law) by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter (of the Law)" (Rom. 7:6). The Law binds people up in rule-keeping. Christians are no longer bound to the law regulations, but are free to serve "in newness of the Spirit," in the spontaneity of the activity of the Spirit of Christ operative in us. Paul contrasts Law and Spirit indicating that they are mutually exclusive. There can be no combination or integration of the two.

The same either/or distinction is seen in Galatians 2:19, "I died to the Law that I might live to God." If one has not died to the Law, then he cannot live to God. If a Christian has not rejected the Law as having any efficacy in his life as a Christian, then he cannot live to God. All faith must be in Jesus Christ with no allowance for faith in the Law. This is why there is so little "living unto God" in Christian lives today. They have not accepted that they have died to the Law, and that they must therefore abandon and forsake all law-keeping. When there is any continued adherence to the Law, the Christian will not understand what Paul writes in the next verse: "It is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me" (Gal. 2:20). Thus it is that we "live to God" (2:19) by the "grace of God" (2:21), as the dynamic of the Christ-life is lived out through us. To fail to put all faith in the efficacy of the life of the indwelling Christ is to nullify the grace of God (2:21). Grace is rejected, negated, invalidated whenever the Christian in any way accepts that righteousness has any relation to law-keeping.

James S. Stewart explains the alternative like this:

"Nothing could be more explicit than the clear-cut alternatives presented to the Galatians: either the law, or Christ -- you cannot have both. A Christianity cramped in its action by the accoutrements of legalism was as little fit to face the world as David in Saul's hampering armour was fit to face Goliath. And any Christianity which hankered after the law was virtually denying the finality of Jesus. Were men slow to realize this? Bluntly Paul would force on them the question, Has Christ done all, or has He left something undone? You say, He has done all: then go on and draw the obvious conclusion -- the law can add nothing."10

One other verse may pertain to "dying to the Law." In Colossians 2:20 Paul refers to the Christian "having died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world." The concept of "elementary principles" may correspond to the Old Testament Law in Paul's thinking. (Cf. 2:16)
Christians have also been "released from the Law." Rom. 7:6 - "We have been released from the Law." In a subjective way Christians have been discharged, disengaged, "laid off" from the operational effect of the Law. The Law is not our boss! We have been released, let go, from any employment of the Law. We must not "go to work" for the Law any more. Such would be to reject our Lord Jesus Christ.

Several Scriptures indicate that Christians are not "under the Law." They are not under the jurisdiction of the Law and therefore not subject to the Law.

Using the analogy of the paidagogos for instrumental purpose of the Law, Paul explains that "we are no longer under a paidagogos" (Gal. 3:25). Christians are no longer under the directives and disciplines of the Law serving as a child-leader. We have "come of age" as full-grown "sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26), and are subject only to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

In I Corinthians 9:20 Paul again indicates that he, himself is not "under the Law," but the Jews, who had not received Jesus Christ, were still in a self-imposed, religiously imposed subjection to the Law. Paul continues to explain that he is "under the law of Christ," subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

To the Romans Paul writes, "You are not under law, but under grace. Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be!" (Rom. 6:14,15). Christians are not subject to the Old Testament Law and its requirements. Does that mean that we become antinomian and revel in lawlessness, and run off into all sorts of sordid sin? No! Such would be to misunderstand "grace." Subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, Christians become "slaves of righteousness" (Rom. 6:16-22) as God activates His character of righteousness in our behavior by the dynamic of the life of the risen Lord Jesus. "Living under grace" will not lead to sin. The righteous character of God is contrary to all sin and will not manifest sinfulness in our behavior (I John 3:9).

Once again to the Galatians, Paul writes, "If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." To be "led by the Spirit of Christ" is to be living "under grace," subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. That dynamic of living is incompatible with being subject to the Law, and trying to keep the commandments of the Old Testament Law. Paul's argument here in Galatians chapter 5 is to explain the radical dichotomy of either being "under obligation to keep the whole Law" (5:3) or "walking in the Spirit" (5:16). He warns the Galatians Christians that they are mutually exclusive, entirely incompatible. There can be no merging, no integrating of Law and grace. It will be one or the other, and such will be evidenced either in "deeds of the flesh" (5:19-21) or the "fruit of the Spirit (5:22,23).

This sequence of Scriptural evidence seems to make abundantly clear that the Law has been abrogated and abolished for Christians. Though the Law if affirmed in its historic purposes, it is abrogated as God's means of relating to mankind.

Finally we must consider the application of the Law. Does the Law of the Old Testament have any application today? If it does apply, to whom does it apply, and what are its purposes?

What purpose would the Old Testament Law serve if it were still in effect? It might be said that the essential purpose of the Law is still served as the character of God is still revealed by the written Law. The essential purpose of the Law has been so far superseded by the superior revelation of the character of God by the Son, Jesus Christ, as to be severely limited and unnecessary. The "Son...reveals Him" (Matt. 11:27); "He has explained Him" (John 1:18); "Christ is the image of God" (Col. 1:15; II Cor. 4:4). If one wants to know about the character of God, he should look to Jesus, not to the Law.

The essential and instrumental purposes of the Law have both been served historically. Based upon the essential purpose of revealing the character of God, the Law served to reveal the sinfulness of man. Looking at the life of Jesus Christ serves as a far better revelation of God whereby man can recognize that sin is everything contrary to the character of God as revealed in the perfect life of Jesus Christ. The awareness of sinfulness is made in many other ways other than by the Old Testament Law. Self-centeredness, selfishness, narcissism, self-effort, inadequate performance, self-sufficiency, dysfunctionality, negativism, controlling tendencies, unlovingness, unhappiness, bitterness, resentment, anger, the inability to meet our own expectations, obsessions, compulsions, addictions, etc. are revealed to man over and over again by his own failures. It does not require Old Testament Law to reveal man's sinfulness today.

The preparational purpose of the Law has been completed. The pictures have become reality. The custodian is unemployed because the "people of God" have "come of age" in Jesus Christ. Only when the paidagogos is mistakenly cast in to the role of teacher or tutor does the misunderstanding of the analogy issue forth in the false projection of the Law as still having an educative, didactic or instructional purpose.

The Law never did have a behavioral or functional purpose, and it does not have such today. There is no dynamic for the doing of God's demands in the Law. The Law did not have a vital purpose. Life and righteousness and salvation are not a result of the Law. There is no valid purpose for the Old Testament Law to serve today.

To whom would the Old Testament Law apply if it did have a purpose?

Does the Law still apply to Jews? Is it still the basis of Judaism? The Law had a valid historical purpose for the Jewish people only from Moses until Jesus Christ. On the cross, Jesus exclaimed, "It is finished" (John 19:30). The preliminaries of the Law and of Judaism were terminated. The Jewish people, as an ethnic race, have disappeared. This is verified by the Encyclopedia Britannica: "The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race."11 The religion of Judaism is but the shell of an antiquated religion that was rendered useless from Jesus Christ onward. God loves the people who still call themselves "Jews," whether on the basis of race, religion or nationality, but the Law has no application for them, and they must receive Jesus Christ by faith in order to be "God's People," spiritual "Israel."
Does the Old Testament Law apply to non-Christians? The Old Testament Law was intended originally and historically only for the Hebrew people of the Old Testament era.

Throughout history, social moralists, politicians and religionists have attempted to use the Old Testament Law as a universal standard that can be held up before, and "held over," societies of natural, fallen, sinful men to attempt to regulate their behavior. The Old Testament Law is thus cast as a divinely given "natural law" to be imposed on natural men and utilized for social constraint. How often have you heard someone say: "If men would just live by the Ten Commandments, we would have a just society."? False. It will never work. Laws, no matter what they are, "are of no value against fleshly indulgence" (Col. 2:23). Morality may be legislated, but it will never produce righteousness.

Is it wrong then to "use" God's Law as the basis of a "natural law" to control a natural society of natural men? Should the Old Testament Law be used for purposes other than those for which the Law was originally intended? When the Law of God is not used supernaturally by God for His own divine purposes, then the use of the Law by any other is a "natural" use of the Law, rather than God's supernatural use of the Law. If God is not utilizing His divine Law by His supernatural activity for His divine purposes, then the natural use of the Law is a misuse and abuse of the Law. If God is not using the Law in accord with His revealed purposes, then any other use of the Law is not of God. If the use of the Law is not derived out of God, ek theos, then it is necessarily Satanic, diabolically motivated to "control" other people, to put people in bondage, to manipulate people, to make them feel guilty and condemned and shamed. So the "use" of God's Law as "natural law," whether utilized as church law, governmental law, parental law, moral law, etc. is an "abuse" of God's Law, for it does not serve God's intended purposes for the Old Testament Law. God's Law used apart from God's purpose and function will never produce God's intents. Jacques Ellul comments,

"The desire to create a universally binding law on the basis of the law of God or even on the basis of the Gospel is undeniably heretical. Such an attempt presupposes the possibility, for non-Christians, of accepting the will of God or of living a Christian life."12

Some would claim that to use the Old Testament Law for social behavioral constraint allows the Old Testament Law to continue to serve an instrumental purpose, an educative, tutorial, didactic, instructional teaching purpose to expose sinfulness and the inability of behavioral righteousness. This thesis is based, as we have noted, on a misunderstanding of paidagogos. It does not coincide with the historical purposes of the Law. It still suffers from the false premises of "natural law."

There is one New Testament passage that does seem to allow for the use of the Law as a basis for governmental law regulating social conduct. In I Timothy 1:8-10 Paul refers to "using the Law lawfully, realizing the fact that law is made for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murders and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnapers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching." It should still be noted though that political, social and religious usage of the Law does not necessarily serve the intended purposes of God for the Law.
The next question we must ask is whether the Old Testament Law has any application to Christians today? Remember, the historical parameters of God's purposes of the Law were from Moses to Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:19), pertaining to the Hebrew peoples.

Christians who develop their theology around the man-made behavioral categories of the Law, and fail to grasp the historic purposes of the Law, often end up with a misplaced reverence for the Law that quickly degenerates into a deification of the Law, and makes them liable to such labels as "law-lovers," philonomists or nomophiles. Outlandish assertions are often made which evidence that they regard the Old Testament Law to have both vital and behavioral contemporary purpose.
Walter J. Chantry asserts that

"the moral law and the gospel are the two major instruments in the arsenal of the Spirit...,"13

"grace and moral law walk hand in hand throughout Scripture."14

Greg J. Banhsen writes that

"the law displays the demand of God upon our lives as men...what is required of men if they are going to imitate their Creator...be like God."15

"The law guides the sanctification of the believer...sets down the pattern of God's holiness for our lives..."16

Kenneth L. Gentry Jr. concurs with their statements, saying,

"The Law guides sanctification (and)...provides an objective standard for the Christian so that he might know what God expects of him.17

"Paul...upheld the "Jewish" Mosaic Law as an ethical ideal for God's people.18

"God's Law outlines specific moral behavior, eliminating the guesswork from moral conduct.19

"Having a revealed and objective standard takes the guesswork out of righteous living."20

To thus advocate that the Law is the basis of righteous living is but a blatant denial of Paul's writings which indicate that the Law does not make us righteous.

Other writers hold an entirely different opinion of the application of the Law to Christians today, denying that the Old Testament Law is still applicable. D.R. De Lacey explains that

"..Paul does not ground his ethical imperatives in the statutes of the Old Testament, but in the fact of the indwelling Spirit." ...Paul saw an inappropriateness in appealing to the law in the context of the New Covenant."21

"Paul deals with the Christian's relation to sin. He refuses to discuss this in terms of obligation to the law, choosing rather to base his case on the new relationships found in Christ... Paul refuses to discuss Christian conduct in terms of obligation to (the Law)."22

In his article on the "Law" in the Dictionary of the Bible, James Denney asks,

"What is the relation of the Christian to the Law?...the Christian has nothing more to do with law in any way. ...law only enslaves to sin; but grace gives the quickening spirit and liberates. In the Christian religion, as St. Paul understood it, nothing statutory could have any place. To give a legal authority to any formal precept, ethical or ritual, is to shut the door of hope, and open again the door of despair. Legalism, in short, and Christianity (life in the Spirit) are to St. Paul mutually exclusive ideas. ...the idea that the existence of Christianity depended upon them (laws) could only have seemed to him a fatal contradiction of all that Christianity meant."23

Reginald E. Showers states very clearly that

"..Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. From the time that God met with Israel at Mount Sinai to the time of Christ's death on the cross, God employed the Mosaic Law as His way of administering His moral absolutes over Israel. But when Christ died, God stopped employing the Mosaic Law; He dissolved His relationship with it; He put the Law out of business. Since God stopped employing the Mosaic Law as His way of administering His moral absolutes over Israel when Christ died, believers since the cross have not been under the Mosaic Law even as a moral rule of life. ...Since Jesus abolished the Mosaic Law...it can be concluded that Christians today are not under the Mosaic Law. ...if a person places himself under the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law, he obligates himself to keep the entire Law (including the civil and ceremonial aspects). ..the Christian is not under any aspect of the Mosaic Law."24

In the book entitled Grace: The Glorious Theme, L.S. Chafer makes the following statements:

"Since law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life. ..the Scriptures...both assume and directly teach that the law is done away. Consequently, it is not in force in the present age in any sense whatsoever. The present nullification of the law applies not only to the legal code of the Mosaic system,...but to every possible application of the principle of law."25

"..the whole Mosaic system was fulfilled, superseded, and terminated in the first advent of Christ."26

"...it is both unscriptural and unreasonable to apply the teachings of the Mosaic system directly to the children of grace."27

"We may conclude, then, that every aspect of the reign of the law has ceased with the death of Christ and the introduction of the reign of grace. There is no longer any obligation to do the things which are written in the law... There is perfect liberty and victory in the priceless provisions of grace."28

In unison with these last authors, I must conclude that the Biblical evidence indicates that the Old Testament Law has no applicable purpose and no jurisdiction in the new covenant community of Christians. None of the categories and none of the purposes of the Law apply to Christians.

The Scripture passage most often used to justify continued application of the Law for Christians is Romans 7:7-14. Is this autobiographical passage to be taken as typical of every Christian's experience? Or is this passage just Paul's personal experience in that transitional period of early Christianity? Paul had been a Pharisaical Jew, totally committed to the Old Testament Torah. The Law had an effect on him that is not necessarily effected in every Christian in every age, although the repetitive patterns of sin, of the "flesh," that Paul mentions in 7:15-8:2 are generally experienced by all Christians.

Even though the Law does not apply to Christians, how should Christians view the Old Testament Law?

First, we must always recognize the historical connection of that preparatory period when the Law was employed by God in the Old Testament with the fulfillment of God's intent in Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament. The Old Testament and the New Testament, and the themes of law and grace, must never be disconnected or detached or disassociated. There is an indissoluble connection in the flow of God's dealings with man from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation. Christians must never seek to do away with the Old Testament, to cut it out, sever it from their Bible. Such would leave the New Testament hanging in mid-air without its essential historical foundation.

Secondly, Christians should appreciate God's preliminary dealings with the Jewish people in the Old Testament, using the Law to point to Jesus Christ. In Romans 3:2 Paul explains that the Jewish people "were entrusted with the oracles of God." There is a "heritage" that Christian peoples should appreciate as they look back at the Hebrew peoples and the Law of the Old Testament. Torah served the divine purposes that God intended as a prelude to Jesus Christ, and "is entitled to an honored emeritus status in the household of Christian faith."29 Christians should not denounce, disclaim, disdain, denigrate, deprecate or depreciate the Old Testament Law of God.
Christians should also constantly beware of the two extremes of de-emphasizing the Law and over-emphasizing the Law. It requires a delicate theological balance to keep the Old Testament Law in its Biblical perspective. Misemphases of the Law have led to such radical extremes as historical revisionism, legal recon-structionism and racial rejectionism.

In what ways is the Law of God fulfilled in Christians today?

God's intent has always been to restore mankind to His created intent so that the character of God could be displayed in the behavior of man by the grace of God unto the glory of God. The Law of God given to the Jewish people was a prelude to that over-arching salvific and sanctifying intent of God.

So it is that Paul can say in Romans 8:4 that "the requirement of the Law can be fulfilled" in Christians who "walk according to the Spirit." The character of God is expressed in our behavior by the grace of God, by the life of Jesus Christ lived out through us. More specifically, the character of God's Love is to be evidenced in the behavior of Christians. "God is love" (I John 4:8,16). Paul explains that the manifestation of God's Love is the fulfillment of the Law (Rom. 13:10). "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law" (Rom. 13:8). To the Galatians Paul writes, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'" (Gal. 5:14). In so loving our neighbor, we will "bear one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2).

By referring to "the Law of Christ," Paul brings the concept of Torah all the way around to its original meaning of "the divine directive." The living Lord Jesus who indwells Christian people is the Living Torah! Jesus Christ is the dynamic divine directive in the lives of God's People. Jesus Christ is Lord, implying the authoritative direction and guidance of God in the lives of Christians. The static written Law has come to the completion of its purposes so that the dynamic directive of God in Christ, "the law of Christ," may be operative in Christian behavior. Thus it is that Paul speaks of himself as being "under the law of Christ" (I Cor. 9:21), and exclaims with gratitude the Christian liberty of functioning by "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:2).

The writer of Hebrews quotes from Jeremiah, indicating that new covenant Christians have God's laws "put into their minds and written on their hearts" so as to become the People of God (Heb. 8:10; 10:16). Jesus Christ, the living Torah, does indeed live in the Christian to become the divine directive in his life and to manifest the divine character.

James writes in his epistle of "the perfect law" (James 1:25). The Greek word translated "perfect" is teleion derived from telos, the word used by Paul in Romans 10:4 to describe Christ as the "end" of the Law. The end-objective of God in the Old Testament Law has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, who now becomes the "perfect law," divine directive brought to its divine end, allowing God to function within man according to His created intent, God's perfect order restored. Christians can "fulfill the royal law" (James 2:8) as the King, Jesus, reigns in their hearts and manifests God's love toward others. What a privilege to not have to live by a law of bondage to external regulations but by "the law of liberty" (James 1:25; 2:12), enjoying the freedom to be and do all that God wants to be and do in us.

Full article: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/lawgod.html

theEphah wrote, quote;

"""Abraham didn't have a temple, I guess he didn't get that memo that he needed a temple to keep those commandments."""

We are Gods Temple, and Christ lives in His temple, He ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit also, and we are His temple also, so Jesus cannot sin or the Holy Spirit either.
Abraham did not have Christ in Him, but his faith and obedience were counted to him as righteosness. Our faith and obedience since the Cross, is in Christ Jesus who is now our Spirit and the Holy Spirit consumnes our soul, this body has been quickened to contain the whole bucket of Grace through Faith, that being our Law by Jesus Christs works in us. This is the perfect Law of the of liberty in Christ of whom I labour (works of the fulfilled Law) by the works of Jesus Christ who is the fulfillment of the Law in me, of whom His mighty works in me make me perfect and complete in the fulfillment of the Law in Christ Jesus.

Of my own self I cannot attain to the righteousness of the Law and either could all Israel. When God came to this earth they did not receive Him. We the Sheep of His pastures will hear His voice when He comes for His Bride, His body, the Church.

If you test yourself in the Law ourside of Jesus Christ born again in you, you cannot be saved. Selfrighteousness is not the plan of salvation, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is the only begotten Son of God and you will be saved".

The letter of the Law kills by judgement of the inability to keep the whole of it perfect. The Spirit of the Law in Christ in you the Hope of Glory and by His works which work in me mightily I am perfect before our Father.

These are my works of Labour in the Law of liberty in Christ where there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus our Lord. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. This is my Law.

Know this: The Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit will be going to the strip club in/with you, enjoy.

In Christ: Phillip

--Christinyou --
Quote:

Do you keep all the commandments?

Yes I keep it all. But Lovefirst has informed me that I'm on the wrong path so I have abandoned it for some hot chicks.

theEphah

I have been reading with some interest the exchange. You say that you keep the law and I believe you are sincere in thinking that you do keep the whole law. Unfortunately scripture plainly states that you and I are incapable of keeping the law. "For what the law could not do in that it was weak in the flesh, God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh..." Romans 7. You see, if you are relying on your ability to keep the law to enter into or to maintain right relationship with God you are unfortunately under a strong deception. The Jews were and still are under the same deception. The writer of Hebrews I believe it is (I am writing from memory this morning) says that to this day a veil is over their eyes at the reading of the law.

You see, if we keep the whole law and yet offend in one point we are guilty of the whole thing. So if you are trusting in your ability to keep the law to be righteous you are lost already with no hope of redemption because you have broken the law in some part. Now you might say that your initial righteousness comes by grace through faith, but after that you must keep the law. Paul wrote the entirety of the letter to the Galatian church to counter that argument, and his words are crystal clear and cannot easily be convoluted.

You implied by your response that to believe that we are no longer under the law is to cast off holiness and go after "some hot chicks". When one relates to God through their flesh rather than through the work of Jesus Christ, grace, and the Holy Spirit this is the only logical conclusion. The law served to restrain sin at a time when it was not possible for man to be regenerated in his Spirit and walk in the Spirit. But a man who has experienced the grace of God through Jesus Christ and walks in the Spirit has the law-giver dwelling within Himself and has been made new in the spirit. This is what Jeremiah meant when he prophecied that God would write his laws on our hearts. You see, I live a very holy life. Some would think it strange the way I live. I have never smoked a cigarette, never tasted alcohol, don't watch T.V., rarely read anything that is not authored by a believer and about the Lord, etc., etc.. But all this is worth NOTHING when it comes to being right in God's sight. It is simply the outflow of listening to the Holy Spirit and being obedient. It is the work of God in my life because I am born again, regenerated by the Spirit. It is not because I am keeping the law.

theEphah: I pray that you will not desire to defend a position that you have come to believe and to prevail in an argument to the extent that you will not prayerfully and carefully study the scriptures to see if what I and others here are saying is not true. It is a terrible strain to try to make Paul's writings say something other than what they say as the man was so crystal clear and consistent in his message. I know of people in the Hebrew roots movement who have now said that Paul was not inspired of God and that have thrown out his writings as not in the canon because they could not reconcile what they had chosen to believe with what the Bible clearly teaches. They would not let the Bible stand in the way of what they believed. Please study it carefully and ask God to reveal truth to you. The consequences of relating to God by law are eternal.

Law-keeping will damn your soul. Which is why you must be led by the Spirit. Romans 7 makes this abundantly clear. If you live by the Law, you shall die by the same. But if you live by the Spirit, you will never be an obligor to the flesh.

DEAR pilgrim777

QUOTE-
This is probably the clearest and most understandable article I have read on the Law of God. This article should liberate the confused. by James Fowler.
END QUOTE-

SWEET!

THANKS FOR POSTING THIS.

Christians are not under the law. --- We get it.
Christians are saved by grace. ------ We get it.

No. You don't.

why are you upset?

I'm actually not upset in the slightest. Quite calm.

I wrote the following as part of a larger article on Romans 6-8. It describes, in brief, the relationship of the Christian to the law, and what it means to "keep" and "obey" the law today.

Read the following link for the full essay: http://www.iamadisciple.com/articles/freedominchrist.php

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Romans 7: Freedom from the Law

Do you know what it’s like to have that one vice that you just can’t seem to get over? You resolve to quit. You swear to yourself, to your family, and to God that you are going to stop. Yet for all your resolutions, for all your willing, and all your swearing, you still find yourself doing the same thing over and over again. You really want to stop, but you just can’t bring yourself to do it! If this is you, then I believe if you rightly understand Romans 7, you will come to understand why it is you are in such a rut, and as a result, will learn how to escape from this never ending cycle of stumbling.

In Romans 7, Paul continues his discussion on sin as it relates to the believer. Thus far in Romans, Paul has established all men everywhere have sinned, and deserve to be punished for those sins. But through God’s grace and the power of the cross, those who believe in the Lord have been liberated from the power of sin. Indeed, the believer is said to have died with Christ to sin, and is said to have been freed from its power.

But if that is all that Paul would’ve told us, he would’ve only told us half the story. For in Romans 7, we learn that when we died with Christ, not only did we die to sin, but we died to something else altogether. And what else did we as believers die to? Not only did we die to sin, but we also died to the Law of God! And this death to the Law of God was necessary if we as believers are to walk in the freedom that Christ has called us to walk in. Otherwise, as we shall see, we would still be in bondage, and slaves to sin. For sin gains its power through the Law. (7:11)

It comes as a shocker for many Christians to hear this very thing. It almost sounds blasphemous and heretical. Not only have you died to sin itself, but through the death of Christ, you have also been made to die to the very Law of God. And by this Paul isn’t merely talking about the ceremonial aspects of the Law, or its dietary restrictions. Rather, he is talking about the entire body of God’s Law, not only as revealed through universal and natural law, but as also revealed in the very Ten Commandments given to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

Paul opens up with an illustration. In Romans 7:1-3, he asks us to consider marriage. As long as one is living, a woman who is married is bound by the law to be faithful to her husband, and to have sexual relations to him alone. But, if her husband should die, the law no longer has jurisdiction over her life, and she is free to marry whomever she wants without being considered an adulteress. But so long as her husband remains alive, the law has jurisdiction over her life, and should she have sexual relations with another person, then the law can speak to her predicament and judge her as an adulteress.

In the same way then, when you as the believer were crucified with Christ on the cross, you died to the jurisdiction the Law had over your life. We who have been crucified with Christ have been “made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.” (7:4) The Law cannot rule over the dead, but rather, only the living. And your death with Christ on the cross broke the claim of the Law had to oversee your life. Having now been freed from the jurisdiction of the Law, you are now free to be “joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead,” (7:4) and are now free to live as one who has now been united to Him.

It is very crucial to understand these things. For though the Law of God is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), you in your sinful flesh are everything but good. You are carnal and stink of hell. Thus, because of your carnality, when you become aware of the demands of God’s holy Law, you rebel against God and sin. The Law says, “you shall not covet,” but your sinful flesh, because of its rebellious nature, feels provoked to do the very opposite of what God says to do.(7:7-13) Such can be likened unto a mother telling her child to not press a red button. The mothers’ command is good, but everything within that child screams at him to press the red button. Why? Because that is what children do! And Paul’s argument thus far is that we are all like such children!

Thus, for those who live a life under the jurisdiction of the Law, we see a great struggle between God’s Law and our sinful flesh. If we read Romans 7:14-23 in its proper context, we will see that Paul is describing the conflicting life of a man living under the jurisdiction of the Law, and the ultimate bondage Law based living brings. On one hand, you have the Law of God telling you the good thing God wants you to do, and you mentally agree it should be done. But on the other hand, you have your sinful flesh disagreeing with the Law of God. Your sinful flesh is telling you to do the exact opposite of what God’s Law says, and ultimately drives you to do something other than what you want to do. In your sin, you may admit God was right in what He said in His Law, but such proved to be worthless to you, for instead of producing “fruit for God,” (7:4) you sinned and produced “fruit for death.” (7:5)

Reading of this great struggle and conflict, it is no wonder Paul throws his hands up in the air and declares: “Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?” (7:24) Can you hear that? This great despair and anguish of heart that Paul expresses over his own humanity is ultimately what God desires to bring every man to see of himself. God wants us to understand that in and of ourselves, we are without hope, as our condition has trapped us in a vicious cycle that we have entered into, and have no hope of ever escaping from. God says don’t sin, yet we sin, and sin all the more! We find that we have a will and desire to serve God, but that our will is ultimately broken and unable to do what we know to be right. We find in this cycle, all we can do is continue in our addiction to sin.

Paul recognized that he had the need to be delivered from this way of living. In this way of life, he realizes there is a futility to living a life based on the Law of God. As great as the Law of God is, Paul found it had the inability to produce victory over sin in his life. Instead, the Law of God brought out the worst of his fallen humanity, and indwelling sin began to dominate him. (7:8) Instead of the Law giving him life and provoking him to obedience, he realized the commandment only provoked him to sin. The problem is not with the good commandment, but the problem is with the wickedness of our flesh. Thus Paul realized our only hope is to be found in Christ, who alone can set us free from this vicious cycle (Romans 7:25). The way in which Christ liberates us from this cycle, is not only to cause us to die to our sin, as we read about in Romans 6, but through Him we are made to die to the jurisdiction of the Law in our lives. And instead of living our lives based on the Law of God, having died with Christ and having been raised from the dead, we can find victory in our lives over sin if only we would walk in “the newness of the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (7:6)

Without being set free from the Law, you and I could never truly be set free from the power of sin, and the deadly effect it has on our lives. Indeed, many Christians today fail to live the lives God would have them to live, because they are still living their life as if it were subjected to the jurisdiction of the Law. They wake up every morning and say, “I will do this, that, and the other… Likewise I will not do this, that, and the other.” They are living by rules and regulations. Some of those rules and regulations are man-made. But some of them even have their origin in God! But, God has never intended man to live his life in such a manner.

Some of you might be asking at this point, “Jimmy, I’m confused, are you saying that I don’t have to keep the commandments of God? Where does personal obedience come into play? We are supposed to obey God, right?” And this is a great question, to which I’d answer yes, we as Christians are to keep the Law of God, though we are set free from its jurisdiction. But by keeping it, I don’t mean waking up every day with a mental check list of things you are going to do or not do. As Christians, our keeping of the Law isn’t found in striving to obey individual commandments and precepts, rather, our keeping of the Law is something that originates out of experiencing a regenerated heart that has been set free by the Spirit to love God, and to walk accordingly.

It’s about living a life not empowered by a checklist of commandments, but rather, it’s about living a life empowered by the indwelling Spirit. I love God and love my neighbor as myself, not because I’m resolving to do so with all of my mind, to obey the Law. Rather, I do such as simply living my life by the impulse of the Spirit. Obedience therefore, simply comes naturally, or rather I should say, supernaturally in my life. As the Spirit of God moves in my life, I follow Him and His Divine impulse. If I rely on the Law of God to serve as my stimulant, I will find that I act upon the impulse of the flesh, and in doing so, will only find my flesh provoked to rebel against God, and to live a life of sin.

Therefore, the reason many believers continue to walk in bondage to sin, and carry around with them that one nagging vice they never seem to master, is ultimately because they are living their lives as if it were under the jurisdiction of the Law. So long as you do such, your Christian walk will be a very frustrating one, and will resemble the man of Romans 7:14-23. You will resolve and will to do what you know God wants you to do, but you will fail every time, because of a broken will, the weakness of the flesh, and the weakness of the Law. If you wish to overcome the sin in your life, you must consider yourself as one who not only has died to sin, but as one who has also died to the Law of God. And instead of walking according to your flesh, and walking according to the Law, you must walk according to the life giving power of the Holy Spirit.
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Thanks Bro KingJimmy

this is GOOD too!

Joch

Did you just admit that we have to keep the law?

Yes. I keep it because the law has been fulfilled in me. I am righteous because God has declared me so, and I have been given a new heart and mind to reflect this. And out of this new heart and mind that come as part of the New Covenant, I "naturally" do the will of God, as I live out of His life and Spirit.

See, that leaves us guessing what the Creator requires of us. He has told us what he requires, why are we making up our own rules?

Indeed, He has told us what He requires. But Spirit-filled living doesn't mean one becomes a law unto themselves, being able to do whatever is right in our own eyes. The Law of God is there to remind tell us if we have transgressed God's will for our lives, and have gone beyond the boundaries of His will.

For example, I live in the United States. The United States has two borders, one to the north and one to the south. If I cross either of those boundary markers, I have overstepped the bounds of my habitation. Our relation to the Law as Christians is the same.

But while living in the Untied States, I never really think about the boundaries of my habitation. Why? Because there is so much freedom and liberty to be found within these borders. I don't wake up every single day and conduct my business by thinking, "Ok, I have to stay within these boundaries today." Instead, I just do what comes to me naturally. And for 29 years of my life thus far, I have yet to cross over those borders.

In the same way, as a born again individual filled with the Spirit of the living God, I don't wake up and think: "Ok Jimmy, don't kill anybody today. And don't take God's name in vain." Why? Because the Law, as Paul reminds us in 1 Timothy 1, was made for people who are sinners. You don't have to tell a righteous man not to murder anybody, because he is a righteous man. Righteous men don't do things like that. And so long as I desire to follow the leading of the Spirit in everything I do, I will "keep" the Law.

In fact, I only have to tell myself to not murder somebody if in fact, I am a murderer by nature. But by nature, I am not a murderer, so I don't need a Law to tell me not to murder. It is not my nature to murder, because now I have been made by the Spirit into a new creation, which is conformed to the image of Christ. I am free to live by the Spirit of God, and don't need one single jot or tittle of the Law in order to tell me how to live. For Christ tells me how to live.

That saying "I don't keep the Law to be saved, I keep the Law because I am saved", is true, adding it is His working in me that I am saved and keep the Law, by Him that is the only fulfillment of the whole Law, "Christ in you the hope of Glory", It is: "Col 1:28-29" Whom we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we might present every man perfect in Christ. :29 Where I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily. I in the Law working by self can only produce death.

Amen, Jimmy

In Christ: Phillip

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The law is forever (end of the age) and will never die, so in order to be released from it, we have to die.

We died in Christ, and thus have been delivered from the law.

Before Christ we were held by the law, but now being dead, we have been set free to serve God in newness of spirit.

You cannot be married to both the law and to Christ. That is spiritual adultery. Pick one.

In Christ,
Sarah

Quote:

"""You cannot be married to both the law and to Christ. That is spiritual adultery. Pick one."""

The light comes on; If we are not dead with Christ, we are still married to our old husband, the Law and Condemnation by Satan, which kills. If we are dead, crucified with Christ; Gal 2:20, EVEN freed from the Law, we are free to marry another, our Bridegroom Jesus Christ and we will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb His Bride and He taking us to Our new Father's house. example: Parable of the 10 virgins, no oil, missed the comming of the Bridegroom taking His Bride to His Fathers House. We are the Bride.

"I am" My Joy is made full. No words can describe the greatness of the Joy. "I AM" a son by rebirth. A Bride of Christ His Church without spot or wrikle, He is presenting to Himself. JOY

In Christ: Phillip

Amen. Well said.

Again, just to point this out, it is impossible to keep the OT laws without largely picking and choosing. James tells us that if we offend in one point we are guilty of all. Even those that desire to keep the law have been forced to set up a system of Halaka to adjust the laws to the times and conditions. The Old Covenant that contained these laws has vanished away. We are now under the New Covenant as has been described by many posters. But lets not get confused here, No one and I mean absolutely no one is keeping the Old Covenant. It is utterly impossible.

Comments made by our Lord about keeping the commandments were directed at men and women still under the Old Covenant. It was true and right to do so at that present time. The Old Covenant dealt was tailored for the Old Man. They were still in the Old Man at that time. Jesus initiated the New Covenant the night Judas betrayed Him. It came into effect when the Holy Spirit was poured out a Pentecost after Jesus had co-crucified with our Old Man. This radical event opened a world of possibility; i.e. the coming of the New Covenant tailored for the New Man.

And for this reason, it is my understanding, many "reformed" Jews to this day acknowledge that many of the laws of the old covenant are not applicable today, because there is no Temple or priesthood.

It should also be noted that Paul, when he talks about the Law, isn't just talking about the Old Covenant. When he says we have been freed from the Law, this even includes "natural" law, and is not limited to what Moses wrote down.

You are right, Jimmy. Glad you brought that up.

We are all born into "law", eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We are born-again into Christ.

That is why we have to die. We have to die to everything!

All laws that exist whereby man may try to stand in his own righteousness.

Pilgrim

theEphah: You wrote.

See, that leaves us guessing what the Creator requires of us. He has told us what he requires, why are we making up our own rules?

The law was completely contained in carnal ordinances, in rules that can be kept in the flesh. The problem was the weakness of man's flesh. Paul tells us that the law was good and righteous and holy. He also tells us that the law (specifically the part of the law written in stone, the ten commandments) was a ministration of death. How can that which is a ministration of death be holy? The answer is that the law contained a picture of the holiness of God manifested by carnal do's and don'ts that man could never keep. So when we are compared to that holy standard it can work only one thing in us, condemnation. Now we find in Hebrews that the law contained the image of things to come, and not the thing itself. In context this deals with the laws pertaining to sacrifices. The law was a carnal picture of a spiritual reality that would be fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In like manner the remainder of the law was also incomplete and ineffectual for producing righteousness because it was never the thing that could truly produce righteousness, but only a picture of that thing. Remember Hebrews tells us it was removed because of its inability to produce righteousness. To think that we could by keeping the law be right with God falls so far short of God's true standard of righteousness.

That is why I quoted you. Your statement is a lot like saying, "The law tells me what I can and cannot do and still be OK with God." This question is not one that a man truly saved by grace and regenerated by the spirit would ever ask. Instead he would say, "God, by your Holy Spirit direct my paths so that I might walk worthy of the righteousness that has been given me through no effort of my own." A regenerated spirit in communion with the Holy Spirit is not looking for the line between right and wrong, but rather looking to walk in communion and fellowship with the Way, the Truth, and the Life. This walk will produce holiness that the law-keeper does not comprehend. Jesus spoke of this in Matthew 5. He said to the common people that if they wanted to be right with God that their righeousness had to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. This blew them out of the water as they looked to these men who kept the law better than everyone else as the epitome of holiness. Then Jesus says things like, "It is written that you shall not commit adultery but I say if you look on a woman lustfully you are guilty of adultery." You see, the Pharisees said, "God, what do You require?" and looked to the law. It said, "do not commit adultery." So they might look at women lustfully and have all sorts of mental fantasy, but as long as they did not commit the act of adultery they felt justified. Jesus destroyed that idea and showed that if you wanted to be righteous by your own works that you had to be as perfect as God is perfect. This is an impossible task.

No born again believer who is truly regenerated would ever say, "Well, now that I am not under law I think I will go commit adultery." A person whose focus is on the flesh would think such a thing, but not a person born again by the Spirit of God is convicted and repentant when they give in for even a moment to lustful thoughts. In that respect a Christian keeps the law, but not according to the letter. Rather they are one with the One who is Holiness itself through the indwelling Holy Spirit and they live their carnal lives as an outflow of the Holy Spirit within. They are the true law-keepers though they do not regard the letter of the law.

You see, I NEVER have to guess what my creator requires of me. When I sin, He convicts me by His Holy Spirit and I repent. He tells me go here or don't go there, do this or don't do that. Don't get me wrong, when He speaks to me His words will never contradict the written word of God, but I am not living according to a letter in my own effort but according to an inner witness of the Holy Spirit.

Again, the keeping of the Old Testament Law is impossible. I am familiar with this law in that I took 5 semesters of it when I studied with the Messianics. It is utterly hopeless to try to bring Christians under this law. To do so is to invite Paul's anethema from Galatians 1. Having begun in the Spirit a person cannot be perfected by going backwards under the law.

Even the Jews understood the laws limitations. This is why the Rabbi's had introduced a system of Halaka. The covenant contains many points of agreement between God and Israel that cannot be altered. Since they cannot be altered and the covenant cannot be serviced we can agree with the writer to Hebrews that it has waxed old and is ready to vanish away. The Old Covenant was as much anything a tenancy agreement for the people in the land.

It might be helpful to say that we have had this conversation numerous times on SI over the years. We have had to close these threads before as they almost never serve a profitable purpose. Simply put, those that are in Christ are under the New Covenant. They are not antinomians, nor are they as Kariates. That is as plain as anything. Historically the Pharisees fled to Yavneh (Jamnia) in 70 CE to start Rabbinic judaism, but had already been making void the Law through their traditions for a long time. The Old Covenant is not a 'living document' in the sense that some make our US Constitution. Yet, this is how even the 613 Laws (a later codification btw) are kept up. It is a shocking sham for any that would study it to know just how this plays out. The Rabbis are in authority to interpret and apply the Law as they see fit for the times with no real obligation to follow past precedent or for future Rabbis to follow their rulings.

One of the problems is that the Old Covenant is viewed as 'teaching' and not law by many practitioners. This is not what the writer to Hebrews tells us. The law was carnal ordinances imposed upon the people until the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:10). Notice 'until' signifying that it would end. With a new priesthood came also by necessity a change of the law.

theEphah,

Do you have any sons? If so, did you circumcise him on the 8th day? Or what about yourself? Are you circumcised? And if I'm not currently circumcised, should I become such?

Hey there Ephah,

I'll bite.

When you say "which one of the laws is impossible to keep"? I take it to mean "to keep and not break", otherwise you really did not "keep" it. Right?

If you can answer this question (for clarification's sake) I will finish answering your question.

Thank you,
Pilgrim

Quote: """We can agree to disagree, I am not teaching Christians the Law (that’s a lost cause) however, if a question is asked, I will defend the Righteous Laws Of the Creator of heaven and earth."""

Then what are you doing in defending the Law? Are you a Christian?

In Christ: Phillip

theEphah,

Do you have any sons? If so, did you circumcise him on the 8th day? Or what about yourself? Are you circumcised? And if I'm not currently circumcised, should I become such?

Yahshuans?

Good to know that someone has a sense of humor.

My brothers,
May I take this in a little different direction?
In the NEW TESTAMENT,God has called us into a new thing.
For ALL of us,that believe in Jesus...( and we cannot have Jesus, without
The Word,..because He is the Word,..cannot be separated.

Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
Through His Most Prescious Blood, an entrance has been made for us to enter in.
Jn.1:12,..But as many as recieved Him,to them gave he Power to become
The children of God,even to them that believe on His name...."and His Name is called, The Word of God"( Rev.19:13)

He has called us into a kingdom,...where He is King.
'THE WAY'...
'Washing of the Water,by the Word.'....as He,...His Spirit, the Word, brings things up in us,that are not in keeping with His Way,..His will,...His Word,..
Then He wants to wash whatever is contrary/ agains't ,..away,with the water of the Word.
" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,they are the sons / children
of God."
He wants to circumcise our hearts,...to cut away the things that are not in keeping with His will / way,...and it can be very painful,...if we,through His Spirit will allow the King,Jesus,the Spirit of the Living God to Reign over us.

Please except this with my most humbleness of spirit,

Elizabeth

Ephah's question is, "By the way, you didn’t answer my question, “which of the commandments is impossible to keep?”"

They are too numerous to go through and list. Commandments involving the land, priesthood, and sacrifice have all been impossible to fulfill since 70AD; making the Covenant void. It may come as a shock to some, but the priests are said to flick the blood into the air behind the vail because the Ark was missing after the Babylonian captivity. They were going through the motions. They had no sacred fire or Ark. But they kept on propping up the covenant and making innovations to compensate for these problems. At last (by the second revolt in 135 AD) the Temple and Priesthood were all destroyed, the Jews were banned from the land and Jerusalem was renamed Alea Capitolina and Israel 'Palestine'. The only real survivors in religious practice of these events were the Pharisees (Perushim) and Nazarenes (Notzrim). The Essenes, Sadducees and freedom groups (Zealots, Galileans, Sacarii, etc.) were all ended after Akiba (Akiva) arrived.

Paul said that if righteousness could have come by the law it would have; but it cannot. As it is written... Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." All the law can do is lead us to Christ and teach us about God's ways. It is spiritual, but fallen man is carnal.

Paul said that he pressed towards the "mark" for the prize. Paul was pretty good at keeping the law. Here we read... "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." (Philippians 3:5,6). We know that this mark was not perfection of the law because he counted all his works of righteousness as dung that he might win Christ (Philippians 3:8). "If righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21) What was the 'mark' he pressed towards? It was a higher order of spiritual reality made possible only by being 'IN Christ' through the New Covenant.

As we begin to take a closer look at the issues its good to realize that the Jews codified the Law of Moses into 613 laws, but this is not a perfect representation of the Old Covenant. The law contains the unchanging personality of God in what it means to be holy and love, etc. Jesus said that all of the law and prophets could be summarized into just 2. Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and your neighbor as yourself. This we can agree on.

There are plenty of resources to at least take a look at what the laws are. What studying these laws did for me at the Institute was to make me realize that I don't understand what God means when I conceptualize the meaning of "Love the Lord your God" or "Love your neighbor as yourself, etc." My preconceived ideas of what those concepts were- were often lacking in the meaning of God's terms. Paul said that the law is good if it is used lawfully. This does not mean we are to bring people under it.

The law of God exposes sin- plain and simple. It converts the soul by showing us our need for Christ. It was not written for the righteous but for sinners. And it was added because of transgressions. It exposed the law of sin that is in fallen man. As Paul said it- when the commandment came sin revived and I died. So we see then that it is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. The law was in fact a light that would light the path to Christ; but the people would not that the glory of that law should shine upon them; hence by analogy, the veil that was placed over the face of Moses is still upon their hearts. They would not, that the "light" (glory) of the law be shone upon them. Their only option was to turn to Christ so the vail would be removed and they could understand how God had only TEMPORARILY added the Law until the SEED should come to whom the promises were made.

When the people that sat in darkness saw a great light, they were seeing the Glory of God embodied in the living Word of God (John 1). When you are in sin as an impenitent, you do not desire to see this light as it is contrary to those who love darkness because their deeds are evil. As it is written... men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. The Law of Moses had a glory, but it was a fading glory. Keep this in mind. The New Covenant is called 'a better covenant' numerous times in Hebrews. Why? Because it is the fulfillment of God's design in dealing with the Fall of Man. The Law was only temporary.

The first laws given to man (In Jewish tradition) were the "Noachide Laws". This was a series of 7 laws that dealt with the basic categories of sin. Then came the 10 Commandments. then the Jews codified the law in 613 laws. This is not the whole law- but covers most of the issues. Some of them deal with the nation or the priesthood, etc. Others are relavent for understanding how God defines certain behaviors. We are dependent on Jewish tradition for much of what we know about the 613 Laws and I find it suspect.

In Acts 15 we see a short list of commands being put on the Gentiles Christians. The Jewish Christians were zealous of the law and many continued to keep it as an identification of who they were as God's people and not for salvation (Acts 21:17-25; Acts 24:13-20). There is proof of this else where especially in Galatians when certain came from James and Peter to a "law approach" and left the Gentiles fellowship. Again, not for salvation, but as their culture and identity. We are gentiles and we are commanded to abide in the calling that we are called in (I Corinthians 7:18). Surely Paul rebuked Peter because he risked splitting the Church that had been unified by the breaking down of the middle wall of partition (as Ephesians calls it). Paul would not have it so he withstood Peter to the face.

If tradition is to be believed, the Oral Law, if there ever were such a thing which I highly doubt, was codified (in the 2nd century) and now their is a "shield" over the law. It is my view that this so-called Oral Law in significant ways started the process of keeping the Jewish people from having the light they need to lead them to Christ. Dealing with this issue alone is one of the greatest challenges facing the practicing Jews in my opinion. The Law, when used lawfully quantifies Sin and shows us a Holy God. It shows us some ways to understand how to deal with our fellow man. It was replaced by the New Covenant and is dead in the water to contribute to the Spirituality, that is to help Christians 'be made perfect', because keeping it is still a fleshly exercise. Having begun in the Spirit let us walk in the Spirit. Adding Law to a backslidden people is not the answer, but rather is the road to anathema.

It would be the most helpful if when discussing the law that it would be defined which law you are talking about.

The OT law as given to Moses consisted of three different types of law.

1. The religious law that dealt with the ceremonial rituals, like animal sacrifice.

2. Civil law that dealt with capital punishments, how to deal with criminal behavior.

3. The moral law. It deals with human relationships and life in general - sanitation, for example.

As it is being discussed here on SI one would conclude that the Christian is at liberty to indulge in all manner of sins because he is no longer under the law but is at liberty, he is freed from the law. This is licentiousness at its worst.

The NT teaches that the Christian will be marked by holiness without which no man will see the LORD. This has always been God's will for man, be it OT or NT. It was never right to steal, to go about as a slanderer, a gossip, etc. Homosexuality, adultery was always sin. Jesus never did cancel God's prohibition of this law or any other that govern human relationships. While it is true that moral living will not save a body, it is equally true that a godly person's lifestyle will not be marked by lawlessness, 'workers of iniquity.' (Luke 13:27: But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.)

The ceremonial law was fulfilled in Christ Jesus by him dying and shedding his blood. Read Hebrews.

The moral law was reinforced and expanded - read the sermon on the mount.

The civil law was given to the state to enforce. The church's role is to evangelize, not hunt down criminals and mete out punishment. Read Romans 13.

If the mods and others on SI will agree that the Christian is at liberty to sin willfully without repentance, this site is doomed!

Ginny,

The context of the discussion is whether right standing with God comes from the observance of laws and nothing to do with how much one can get away with. That is not even a Christ-centered concept.

It has been posited many times in this thread that "one MUST keep the law". I do not know if the scope of this law has been defined or what "keep" means.

Pilgrim

It is my view that Paul suffered a great many persecutions because his opposition refused to take the time to carefully listen to his teachings. I find it disingenuous to be so willfully obtuse as to slanderously accuse him of saying things like, "let us do evil that good may come." (Romans 3:9) Paul never said anything like that. These people will answer to God for their stubborn ignorance. Paul said it, "whose damnation is just." (Romans 3:9b) Men are expected to know what we are able to know and will answer to God for obscuring truth when they could have understood it.

Paul carefully explained (and the writer to the Hebrews carefully explained) how the Old Covenant (first covenant) was to be replaced by the New Covenant. A primary aspect of the Old Covenant was circumcision. In fact, this dated back to Abraham. It was a figurative practice pointing to an eventual Spiritual reality of circumcision of the heart. Paul was careful to show that even circumcision of the flesh was 'added' until the Seed should come. Galatians, uniquely written with Paul's own handwriting, addressed how coming under these type laws meant that Christ would profit us nothing. One of his strong statements, that could easily apply in this thread: "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?" The First Covenant (Old Covenant) in relation to the New Covenant is shown by analogy to be as Ishmael that persecuted Isaac. Paul's response to them?

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (Galatians 4-5)

Listen at Paul's strong language here. Cast out the bondwoman and her son! for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Paul goes on to UNDO the damage done by those that BEWITCHED the Galatians by asking them more questions.

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (Galatians 4:9-11)

Paul was horrified by what was going on and declared anathema on those causing the confusion. The Galatians were in danger of coming back under the beggarly elements of the Law through teachings similar to as has been suggested in this thread. It is a subtle danger that sounds spiritual, but is fleshly and carnal. We need to turn our hearing aid up when we read Galatians. Paul tells us clearly that we cannot take a carnal commandment, designed for the Old Man and make him a Spiritual man with it. The Law cannot produce the Fruit of the Spirit. John Baptist, that preacher of righteousness told the people that the ax is laid to the root and if the tree does not bear fruit it is cast into the fire. God had been winking at ignorance for several thousand years, but a new day had arrived with a new possibility. This Gospel was preached to the Disciples and became a reality at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was sent and men could be Baptized into the Body of Christ by the Spirit. All that Christ accomplished on the Cross is available to those that are IN HIM. Therefore if any man be in Christ He is a New Creature, old things have passed away and all have become new.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:2-4)

This is the key. It is useless to suggest Christians are antinomian (lawless) because they do not keep the Mosaic Laws. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. God's design in the New Covenant is a New Creature. Jeremiah 31:33 tells us God will write His laws in our hearts and minds. We are to receive a new spirit and a new heart. We become dead to the Sin and alive unto God. He works IN those that are IN Christ to both will and do His good pleasure. The indwelling Spirit makes possible the bearing of fruit that John Baptist said without which the tree would be hewn down. Paul continues and deals his opposition a deadly blow:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22, 23)

This is the key to understanding Paul's teaching on the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. There is no law against the behaviors exhibited by those that walk in the Spirit. The Law was never made for righteous men and that is what men and women become that are TRULY born of God. They do by nature those things contained in the law that relate to the image of God in man. Not the carnal ordinances, but the outworking of the personality of God akin to how it was manifest in Christ. etc. etc.

The consistent motif in the use of the concept of “tabernacle” in both Old and New Testaments is that of God’s dwelling place (tabernacling) among his people. The word Beth-El means house of God. Jacob saw a ladder to heaven with angels ascending and descending and called the place after this name. He knew he could reach God from the house of God. It was the gate of Heaven. God desired to tabernacle among His people as He had done with Adam before the fall, but even more so.

In a way the Wilderness Tabernacle was a mobile palace from which God could rule as King over His people Israel. The first covenant worship was dominated by ceremonies and sacrifices that the tabernacle (and later the temple) utilized. Walking horizontally into the tabernacle was akin to ascending vertically up to the throne room of God. The Ark represented His throne and the mercy seat was where the blood was offered. God always kept His end of the covenant, but Israel transgressed. There had to be a way to keep the covenant functional and deal with breaches in the contract. The covenant was maintained by the offering of blood for transgressions of the covenant in order to allow the relationship between God and Israel to continue. God's glory 'tabernacled' among the people so long as they kept His covenant.

When Israel sinned the Ark was carried away and had to be recovered. This recovery by David was a cause for celebration. David decided to purchase Arnon's threshing floor for the spot to build the Temple. This is the place where the hand of God's wrath was stayed when he had numbered Israel. this is important. God can build His house where there is appreciation for forgiveness of sins. In time the Temple was built and Solomon dedicated it. He brought many sacrifices until an area had to be set aside to contain them all. When the altar was full and Solomon had prayed the FIRE fell. this is always how the Fire falls- when we get totally on the altar in such a way that God will believe us. The Sacred Fire was rekindled there for service and the Glory returned. It would be short lived. Eventually the Glory departed and the Temple was destroyed. The Ark was lost as it was all carried to Babylon.

Cyrus sent the Jews to rebuild the Temple. Zerubabels temple never saw the glory of the previous temple. Herod expanded this temple but as far as we know God never showed up here in the way He did in Solomon's time. It was abandoned for the most part. There was no Ark signifying that the authority of God was not in view. This was manifest much later when the Jews decided 'it is not in heaven' and usurped all authority from God and gave it to the Rabbis. When Jesus came into the world we have this language:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

Our language here is that of tabernacling. Jesus Christ was THE Temple of God while on earth. He said destroy this Temple and I'll restore it in three days. It was His body the Temple. John said and later Peter said similarly, "We beheld His Glory". They saw the tangible evidence of the Shekinah Glory in the miracles, etc. They identified the Finger of God, ie., the ARK or authority of God being manifest in their midst. The Ark had returned in the Person of Jesus Christ. Our Lord's death on the cross enabled the Temples of men to be cleansed by the blood and readied to receive the Holy Spirit in such a way as described by Steven in Acts 7 and Isaiah 66:1-2. Regenerate man is now the Temple in one sense and living stones in the Temple in another sense. Yet for all this Ephesians tells us it is only the EARNEST of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. It is what the New Covenant provides.

God is now focused in the lives and spirits of regenerate New Covenant believers. Our bodies are viewed as the 'tabernacle' or 'tent' (Hebrew booth), that is, a temporary shell that will pass away at physical death and allow the human spirit to enter into the heavenly dwelling of God and Christ. We will then be resurrected and receive a 'spiritual body' like unto His Glorious Body. This is the spiritual reality to which the old covenant tabernacle pointed. Zechariah 14 points to a time when there will no longer be a need to distinguish between Holy and Profane as it is described in the Old Testament. God will put away evil and sin. ALL will be Holy. Christ having died on the Cross for our sins supersedes any animal sacrifice, so we know that is not in view here. My hypothesis is that the Prophet is foretelling of a time when all things will be cleansed and we can perpetually offer ourselves holy and acceptable to God (Romans 12;1-2) unthwarted. We will celebrate the fact that God has accomplished what He said out to do from the beginning.

Notice how in Zechariah 14 the phrase "in that day" is used seven times (v. 4,6,8,9,13,20, 21). Compare that with John's words:

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. (John 14:20)

In that day (en ekeinēi tēi hēmerāi). The New Dispensation of the Holy Spirit, beginning with Christ’s Resurrection and the Coming of the Holy Spirit at pentecost. Shall know (gnōsesthe). Future middle of ginōskō. Chapters 1 to 3 of Acts bear eloquent witness to these words. (Vincent)

@RobertW - beautiful post and thank you for that.

I deleted my original post as I don't think it really matters to theEphah.

Yes, that was interesting reading. But let's point out a few holes in it.

"Zechariah 14 points to a time when there will no longer be a need to distinguish between Holy and Profane as it is described in the Old Testament. God will put away evil and sin. ALL will be Holy."

Yes, from a partial viewpoint of the saints that is correct, but not in absolute view, as we read: Zechariah 14:18  And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The heathen are still with us. How and by what means will they be ruled?

Revelation 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

With a rod of iron, and let's not forget that at the end of the 1000 years there will be yet another and final deception of the nations:

Revelation 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

There must be of course a law, otherwise how can they be judged? So at that time is this saying still valid then, in a general sense? :
Matthew 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes, because directly after Rev 20 we read when exactly heaven and earth pass away:

Revelation 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

THAT is the time all is fullfilled according to context used by Jesus. He was not talking about the cross here.

That's why we can see the whole picture only when we diffentiate as suggested by ginnyrose:

ginnyrose wrote:

"1. The religious law that dealt with the ceremonial rituals, like animal sacrifice.

2. Civil law that dealt with capital punishments, how to deal with criminal behavior.

3. The moral law. It deals with human relationships and life in general - sanitation, for example.

The ceremonial law was fulfilled in Christ Jesus by him dying and shedding his blood. Read Hebrews.

The moral law was reinforced and expanded - read the sermon on the mount.

The civil law was given to the state to enforce. The church's role is to evangelize, not hunt down criminals and mete out punishment. Read Romans 13."

It's more work to study scriptures by asking what law is spoken about every time "law" is mentioned. Only with that basic understanding ALL and every scripture, every bit and pieces of every mention of 'law' and 'commandments' fit perfectly and have not to be changed in the slightest to fit a particular view or doctrine.

Commandments are by the way not only for sinners, also for sons and daughthers of the household. We are not mature until Jesus's return, except in our own eyes where we can be king of our own kingdom at any time.

I think it is a questionable rendering of the text to translate goy (goyim) as 'heathen'; as the LXX has ἔθνη (ethane/ethnos) or 'nations' in Zech. 14:18. I think heathen is too strong here and does not necessarily fit the flow of the text. There is said to be punishment upon those that come not up to Tabernacles, but I'm not sure this makes them heathen.

There are many questions surrounding these eschatological events. I don't think we can speculate safely here. There are strong implications to the notion that the Old Covenant is in force here. I don't think it necessary to resurrect the Old Covenant for the sake of Tabernacles or moral law. Some Dispensationalists envision a New Millennial Temple with a restored sacrificial system and many other falsehoods. I have no confidence in eschatological speculations and hypothesis. I think it wise to base our theology on things that are clearly known rather than make our soteriology subject to our eschatology.

In case I have not been clear let me say again that I know that true Christians do not move in antinomianism. This is what Paul was falsely accused of preaching. It may come as a surprise, but if a person is walking in the Spirit they do not need the law and are not under the law. Sinners are a different matter all together. They will be judged based upon their response to the revealed will of God; each according to the measure he/she has been afforded. Paul gives us a possibility:

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? (Romans 2:26)

This may refer to Gentiles (goyim) or the Born Again walking out the righteousness of the Law. I think both are in view here.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4)

For simplicity sake, let us break the world down into two categories of people. Paul states, "Not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (mē kata sarka alla kata pneuma). Here are the two walks of life (kata sarka or after flesh in 7:7-24, kata pneuma or after Spirit 8:1-11). A person can be keeping the law and still be walking after the flesh. This is what Paul tells us in Galatians; having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect by the flesh? In other words, can you be perfected by switching from kata pneuma to kata sarka? God forbid.

The original question of this post comes back into view:

"My question is how does an omniscient God stipulate this command to be 'for ever' with the knowledge of Christ to come and take away 'the first' and establish 'the second' a la Hebrews 10:9-10?"

God was never taken by surprise by the fall of man. The law was added because of transgressions until the Seed should come. The coming of the Seed means a new possibility that renders the Law unnecessary. 'Forever' is a relative term as has been explored before; it is until the Seed should come in this context. They that receive Christ are enabled to be Baptized into Him by the Spirit. We were in Adam, a disseminator of death and now we are in the last Adam a quickening Spirit. We are no longer in the flesh (sarx/sara) if the Spirit of God dwells in us. Once man could walk in the Spirit (kata pneuma) he was no longer under the law. Why would he need that law? He lives in a way against which there is no law. God's revealed moral law is in play for those that kata sarka (walk in the flesh). What law? It depends on the level of privilege the person experienced. Some it is the law of God written on the heart and enforced through conscience; others it is the written revelation of God's moral law.

But I must say again that keeping the law does not mean a person is walking in the Spirit. Keep that clear. Paul was blameless touching the Law but was in the flesh until he was Born Again. The Old Covenant is no longer offered. It is closed, done, gone, finished, over, fulfilled, etc. etc. It is not available because it is expired. The teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount are nothing more than a pre revelation of what a manifestation of a person walking kata pneuma will look like. We cannot codify the New Testament into a system of Pos and Neg commands as that is not the point. If a person is not walking in the Sermon on the Mount it is because they are not walking in the Spirit. The solution is not to come under a law-based man made extrapolation of rules from sacred text, but to repent and do your first works over in such a way that God will believe you and refill you with His Spirit. Law is nothing more than embalming fluid in a dead carcass. We need the life giving Spirit if we are to emulate Jesus Christ. It is what the New Covenant provides and the Old Covenant could not do in that it was weak through the flesh. etc. etc.

Well said Robert.

What is a very interesting thing to see, especially coming from a Wesleyan Pentecostal tradition is how legalistic many of our "Spirit-Filled" forefathers have been. I have an older brother today, who is a very dynamic and powerful preacher. He shines like a light bulb in the pulpit. When he preaches, sinners get saved, and hearts and minds are laid wide open for the Holy Spirit to just flood and convict. Your faith is amazingly strengthened, and you often remember what he says years after the fact. His preaching is absolutely electrifying.

Yet, he thinks it a sin (no joke) to wear anything less than your "Sunday best" to the "house of God." I've never seen him in church without a suit & tie... ever. I'm beside myself sometimes to think about him. The Spirit definitely does powerful things through him. But at the end of the day, I can't help but think of the letter to the Galatians.

He definitely is used by the Spirit in powerful ways in the pulpit. But Law rules his heart. And worst of all, it's not one of the 613 codified ones. It's the laws our forefathers, well meaning as they were, invented yet canonized.

Very good article, Robert.

Jesus is the end of the law to everyone that believeth. Romans 10:4

In Hebrews, the old covenant, with its sacrificial worship practices, could not forgive sins (10:4,11); could not cleanse a person’s conscience from the consciousness of sin (9:9,10,13; 10:2); could not provide access to God, for such was limited to the high priest once a year (9:7,25); and could not perfect and sanctify man to function as God intended (7:19; 9:9; 10:1). The singularly sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ, on the other hand, does effect redemption (9:12,15) and forgiveness of sins (9:26,28; 10:12,18); does cleanse man’s conscience internally (9:14) so that there is no consciousness of sins (10:2,17); does provide free access to God, unrestricted, direct, and immediate (9:12,24; 10:19,20); and does perfect and sanctify the believer (10:10,14) to be all that God intends man to be.

The finality of Christ’s sacrificial death signifies the end of all animal sacrifices (10:18). His forgiveness of sins is such that these sins can forever be put out of our remembrance, as they are from His remembrance (10:17). The inauguration of the new covenant signifies the complete abrogation of the old covenant (10:9) – “Christ is the end of the Law” (Romans 10:4) – the shadow gives way to the substance (10:1). Christ’s victorious access to the Holy of Holies of God’s presence evidences that God cannot be confined to any worship-box in any religion, but has an “open-door policy” for all who will approach Him through Christ (10:19).

What did this mean for the Hebrew Christians in Jerusalem to whom Paul was writing? It was a direct warning that to return to any involvement in the Jewish worship practices would be a denial of Jesus. It would necessarily indicate the apostasy of “standing away from” Jesus, in repudiation of His singular sufficiency. It would be to say that Jesus – His sacrifice, His life – was not enough. (Jim Fowler)

Jesus is just better in every way. Why would we want to go back to being Torah observant, back to the shadows?

Heb 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Jesus is just Better in every way.

Jesus: the Better Revelation of God
Hebrews 1:1-4

Jesus: the Better Man for Mankind
Hebrews 2:5-18

Jesus: the Better Ground of Faithfulness
Hebrews 3:1-19

Jesus: the Better Rest of God
Hebrews 4:1-13

Jesus: the Better Divine-Human High Priest
Hebrews 4:14 ­ 5:10

Jesus: the Better Hope of Inheriting the Promises of God
Hebrews 5:11 - 6:20

Jesus: The Better Hope of Man
Hebrews 7:19

Jesus: the Better Mediator between Man and God
Hebrews 7:20-28

Jesus: The Minister of a Better Covenant
Hebrews 8:6

Jesus: The Minister of Better Promises
Hebrews 8:6

Jesus: The Better Sacrifice for Forgiveness
Hebrews 9:23

Jesus: The Better Way of Access to God
Hebrews 10:19-39

Jesus: The Better Guarantor of Promises Received by Faith
Hebrews 11:1-40

Jesus: The Better Country
Hebrews 11:6

Jesus: The Better Resurrection
Hebrews 11:35

Jesus: The Better Example of Faithful Endurance
Hebrews 12:1-13

Jesus: The Better Example of Holiness and Worship
Hebrews 12:14-29

Jesus: The Better Example of Suffering and Bearing Reproach
Hebrews 13:1-25

Pilgrim

Jimmy's: "But Law rules his heart. And worst of all, it's not one of the 613 codified ones. It's the laws our forefathers, well meaning as they were, invented."

How does that saying go? Preferences of men, become traditions of men, become commandments of men. Something like that. I think some of the old timers connected the way they carried themselves when representing God as an important part of their testimony to the world. They thought you need to 'dress the part'. There are some old 1800's sermons here on SI along this line that are real eye openers. There was a time when men would not assume the pulpit until they had donned their wig lest they let down the ministry. Strange expressions of faith.

As with all such conversations such as these that have come up in recent times, and posters being banned only to return in stealth and promote such heresy again, we have digressed into combativeness.

For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Notice concerning the promise, 'God gave it'. The inheritance is given, the Old Covenant (the Law) was added.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:18, 19)

Notice here 'it was added 'till' the Seed should come. Who is the Seed?

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)

The writer to Hebrews penning his work prior to the Temple destruction states clearly:

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

As soon as God announced a new covenant the transitory first covenant was on its way out. The destruction of the Temple meant the abrogation of the temple cultus and sealed the deal. There is no way to service the old covenant because its priesthood has been eliminated.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Hebrews 7:13)

The word for change here is μετατιθεμένης (metathesis) and means more than a slight modification. The same word occurs in Hebrews 11:5 where we read, By faith Enoch was translated (removed) that he should not see death and again in 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Again here the term connotes removal.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Hebrews 7:18)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:7)

As we learn from v. 18 and 8:7 what is meant is essentially an abrogation, that is to say repeal or do away with the law. Paul tells us in Romans that it was spiritual, but because it was dead in the water to provide the promise of the Spirit It was weak and unprofitable.

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (Galatians 3:21-26)

Notice, the Law 'was' our schoolmaster. γέγονεν here is in the perfect tense. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. This is as straightforward as anything. God having given us the New Covenant we are no longer under the schoolmaster (Old Covenant).

As this point and many others have been demonstrated here and repeatedly in past such threads, I will end this conversation with this final post. As we have asked before so I ask again, please do not bring this topic up for discussion again, but rather consider prayerfully what has been said. I joined this conversation and felt it was profitable until the previous post took the familiar combative turn. This thread is locked.