Christianity magazine defends Driscoll interview

Ouch!! Painful!! Yet yummy. . .

I can name one. He may not be "well known" across Britain, but he is young and a good bible teacher. Kevin Williams at http://www.puritanfellowship.com/

Frankly, what has age or being well known got to do with it. The 'church' in Britian is not in crisis because of a 'lack of young, well known bible teachers'. It is in crisis, as much of the 'church' across the world, because of hordes of unsaved people being deceived into thinking they are 'saved' masquerading as christians and because of false teachers, much like Mark Driscoll himself.

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." Luke 6:26

Again Mark Driscoll demonstrates the fact he is clearly far removed from anything the scriptures say in his thinking and views.

Well, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth does speak".

If he made the statement, regardless of the context, then stand by what you say. Don't tell a bunch of people that they are cowards and then later backtrack when the heat gets turned up on yourself.

Frankly, what has age or being well known got to do with it. The 'church' in Britian is not in crisis because of a 'lack of young, well known bible teachers'. It is in crisis, as much of the 'church' across the world, because of hordes of unsaved people being deceived into thinking they are 'saved' masquerading as christians and because of false teachers, much like Mark Driscoll himself.

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." Luke 6:26

Again Mark Driscoll demonstrates the fact he is clearly far removed from anything the scriptures say in his thinking and views.

AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the story, but you said it better than I could of. The cult of personality is a curse here in the US, "well known" people are respected, just like Hollywood. Godly, "little known" men who do not promote themselves are scarce, but they are here, just like everywhere else. The Lord is preparing them like dirty coal that is turned into a diamond. They hate this worldliness, and I would believe that it's the same way in Britain. He is in charge of His church, and His bride is making herself ready!

Thanks again!

The article is down but here is the cache of it:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.christiantoday.com/article/christianity.magazine.defends.driscoll.interview/29169.htm

I just cant immagine 50 years from now the devastating results of this shallow new evangelicalism promoted from preachers and teachers who lack substantially the essense of genuine holiness in their preaching and lifestyle.

The new face of postmodernism penetrating the evangelical churches under the appearance of godliness, it's having its "hey day" today. Orthodoxy has been "hijacked" by the proponents of this "new religion" that is bringing a fresh breeze of air to the already "decaying institutional church". Now they want to export their new brand of christianity to the other parts of the world.

hi, i can't imagine anyone who names Jesus as saviour and is walking in the Spirit has time to criticize mark driscoll to the point i have seen here.if he is a brother and i do believe he is,it is forbidden by Jesus to krino him. he is a little different in that he founded a church soon after his conversion ,without training or experience.if you don't like him after listening to at least 5 hours of his sermons ,don't read his stuff or listen again.jimp

With all due respect Jimp, and I an only speak for myself, I in no way consider Mark Driscoll a brother and hence my staunch criticism of his proud, vain, sexually immoral, blasphemous words and behaviour.

Just because he claims to be a follower of Christ and manages to appear to be preaching truth here and there, does not cancel out the blaringly obvious bad fruit. There is just no way a man who can be so sexually explicit when discussing Gods Word and blasphemously reducing it to some way to shock and awe his sheeples, (who apparently love to be entertained by this kind of talk), could sincerely be promoting and serving Christ's interests. No. Mark is serving his and his only interests, primarily from what I can tell, his huge ego and also his seemingly wicked desire to constantly discuss sex and be crude.

I truly sense a spirit in Mark that seeks to pull other people into his sin, and a satisfaction he gets by doing that. It's as if he is saying, I'm going to stand up here and blasphemely misuse Gods Word, but all YOU people are are participating in this sin with me, by sitting here listening to me and enjoying it. I write so strongly about it because it sincerely grieves my spirit to think what God must think and feel about the way he misuses Gods Word and the things he says. I am also sad to think of God watching all the people who call themselves christians, but seem to not see anything wrong in a 'preacher' who links to a website with a sexually offensive title, and who wrote a book with an equally vile title, amongst the many other things Mark has offensively said. I don't think enough christians are speaking out about Mark and are instead being seduced by his mixture of good teaching mixed with rot. This is a common tactic of the enemy....appearing as an angel of light.....mixing lies in with the truth.

I know people can be sincerely deceived, especially young christians and I do pray these people will be convicted and come out from amongst uncleanliness like this.

But really, have we apostasized so far from Gods truth that we think someone that talks and grandstands in the sexually explicit, crude way Mark does, could be called a brother?

Please reconsider.

That really is all I wish to say about Mark as I do not want this to develop into a debate on him. I just say examine his fruits and as someone else said referenced; "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks".

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Matt 12:34

God bless you, and I truly do not mean any discord towards you.

@notlongnow,

If you have such serious concerns, you should contact Mr. Driscoll yourself instead of posting them online. "Love covers a multitude of sins."

@learjet,

Context matters immensely as it explains the 'what' and 'why' of your words.

Teachers are usually only popular on a national scale because they've played some sort of political game to get there. Few, if any, have become such because they just sought to faithfully serve the people God put in their path.

Song of Songs 1:1-8:14
I believe you are referring to Mark's sermon series covering those texts?
I was always taught that those are sexually explicit, correct me if I am wrong please.

I'm personally growing bored with our Christian celebrity preacher scandal of the month thing that is going on lately. Is our Christianity in America so dull, and accomplishing so little, that we must focus on whatever silly thing that Mark Driscoll, Rob Bell, or whoever, is saying this week?

I have a better idea. Why don't we go do something that gives a God a ton of glory instead?

by FriendlyGuy
Song of Songs 1:1-8:14
I believe you are referring to Mark's sermon series covering those texts?
I was always taught that those are sexually explicit, correct me if I am wrong please.

Here is the sermon series: Religion Saves and Nine Other Misconceptions; just search the title and Mars Hill Church and the link will be provided for you.

God bless,
Lisa

PS: I listened to his sexual sin sermon and it was spot on! If you have sexual sins, listen if you dare!

@ jimp

Your posts just ooze truth and common sense in this thread. Truly a breath of fresh when so much pollution abounds. Thanks bro!

notlongnow, I agree with you.

I 'liked' Mark Driscoll the very first time I listened to him, especially because he seemed to speak the truth. But it only took a few minutes for me to sense a nonchalant, careless, youthful spirit about him, and a great lack of reverence for God. Note that I'm not in any way against youthfulness, as I am a youth myself.

There is almost a celebration of sin and pride in his sermons. By almost, I mean the it is clearly there, but it's hidden by the truth he speaks. I watched him a few times until I could not do it anymore; and I watched a good number of his sermons, including Q&A sessions. I had not read anything criticizing him, something just wasn't right about his presence...

Would Jesus Christ or the apostle Paul have spoken, dressed, carried themselves in the same way had they preached in this day and age? How about all the Saints that have gone before us? What would Charles Spurgeon, Leonard Ravenhill, David Brainard etc. have said about this man?

I have learned that on SermonIndex, not everyone will agree with me, and that's okay. I don't intend any strife or discord.

With love,
Daphne.

You bring up an important issue Daphne. The celebration of youthful trendiness in the pulpit these days. The desire to be perceived as "cool." And while I have nothing against young "cool" preachers, as I like to think of myself as something of both, what I am against is the immaturity that is being celebrated by many of these guys. Especially considering some of them are now entering into their 40's.

What the church does not need is more young cool preachers. What we need are "men who are men indeed." We need true "fathers of faith," who are broken and have rays of glory about them from having spent much time with our heavenly Father. They ought to be men who we can imitate in all things, and not "boys" whose ministry is only as strong as the laptop they use to put together slick PowerPoint presentations.

I don't really have any exposure to Driscoll. But he sounds like somebody who hasn't grown up in the faith quite yet. He sounds like he's 20. But sadly, he's 41.

I would like to call all the penitents, whom have no, and remember that they have no righteousness of their own, to please pray for Mark. Pray as the Spirit leads you to pray, remembering that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. If it wasn't for the grace of God, everyone would be damned. For the Lord takes no pleasure in the death of any wicked man, and God forbid I call Mark wicked. Yes, I will know another by their fruit, but I know more that God is able to turn the tide of anyone held captive when He so chooses, and not when I choose. For I choose to believe in a Mighty God whose arm is not to short to save any man. May the Lord work mightily I these last days, and do things that will even make His professors astonished of His grace and mercy, thus humbling the whole lot, that we may indeed worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Yeshuasboy,

God bless you and Jimp... for your words of life!

I don't know what the end of Mark's life will be, but I know that God knows. And if Mark is failing the Lord in any way, I know that the Lord saves failures, saves sinners, great sinners.
If I knew of divine knowledge where Mark is failing the Lord, and I was given understanding of how to rebuke the man, bring and impart correction to him that would make him flee to Christ for refuge, I should do that - but honestly, I do not.
But I wish no man to be damned for all of eternity.
God help him, and may the saints, the penitent, help him too, for the sake of Christ, the Gospel, and the body of believers.
I know that I, myself, have to go lower, way lower in humility, so... If any that reads this feels led to pray for me to trust God as He brings me lower, please pray for me as well. Thank you, and may the Lord richly bless whomever that is, and may the Lord bless everyone here whether I agree with your words or not.

By denying that Religion Saves, Driscoll has committed High Treason against his fellow clergymen. If you don't need religion, you don't need church - and how is the church going to cover payroll if no one goes to church? How is a Man of God supposed to make a living?

His street vernacular and lack of seminary training create the impression that anyone can preach the gospel: a brazen affront to the Minister's Guild. What good are ordination papers if any yahoo can get a pulpit?

Driscoll does not meet my ideal of a good authoritarian pastor. Telling people that they should go thru life with a clear conscience and free from guilt strikes at the very foundation of the Religion Industry. He is sawing off the branch he is sitting on.

Driscoll is to be condemned for Conduct Unbecoming of a Professional Religious Person. God wants his ministers expounding three-point homiletics, with illustrative anecdotes and frequent references to the original Greek, not shouting into microphones like professional wrestlers.

Driscoll makes the Gospel appealing to Gen X types, the most execrable kind of Unchurched Persons. Jesus wants you coming to Him on your knees; Driscoll has them coming to Jesus shaking their booties and playing air guitar. He wears street clothes to church and encourages others to do the same! What? Everyone knows that when you come to church you are entering the Presence of God. And Driscoll can't even be bothered to wear a suit and tie?

To find a historic precedent for such an unlearned, rough-cut, irreligious fellow preaching the gospel, we have to go all the way back to Simon Peter! Can we imagine Peter dressing like Driscoll and talking like Driscoll? Well, yes, we can. But that doesn't make it OK. Driscoll has 20 centuries of clergydom to learn from. Peter kind of had to learn by doing, since he didn't have an Example to follow...

hi, you would have hated john the babtist.

i just wish someone would actually bring an accusation from a quote of something he's actually said and repost it here so we all can see for ourselves. I'll start:

http://marshill.com/media/religionsaves/humor

hi, the young man posted that he thought this guy driscoll was not all that he should be but he was preaching the truth. his appearance was what clinched it for him for it showed that he didn't have the proper respect for the Lord.john the baptist appearance also was unconventional.can you understand now? i heard all the negative reports on mark and i went to the web site and listened for 5 hours and became a fan.jimp

JiG,

That is no way to talk to the Pope of Louisiana (who vastly underestimated My Importance when he recently invited me to come to Baton Rouge and serve as his Vice Pope – I recommended Swaggart instead).

But the comparison with John is an apt one. Imagine him standing in a modern pulpit, wearing leather shorts, eating locust burgers, hair down to the floor. Oh yeah, he would go over real well with the religious…

And I do not need to wait for heaven to talk to Peter. I just phoned him. (I am already a celebrity in heaven, and have that kind of access.) He told me, “John grew his hair long just to annoy the Baptists, and if you think Driscoll is foul-mouthed, you should have heard Martin Luther…”

It's because Mr Driscoll speaks about the country I live in that this has upset me. To be honest, I don't really know about how many 'good, young Bible teachers' there are in Britain today, or how many good Christians, or any other number of various peoples. I'm sure that they exist, quietly living out God's life in them in their own quiet way, with only those around them knowing it.

Could I say that I wish there were more well-known 'good' Christian leaders in Britain? Christians have had trouble with the limelight historically, and remember that letting our light shine is so that people may see our good deeds and praise our Father in Heaven.

Here's a thought though - since today we are able to know what large numbers of well-known Christian leaders are saying, and comments about them, what they say and do et al are free, where is that very fine line between being judgemental of them and being wise to what is not right (and that in God's eyes)? It is easy for anyone pointing out some error or other or highlighting concern to be labelled a legalist or pharisee or self-righteous. Thoughts anyone (or is that a fresh (if not new)) thread...?

To the original point - I do pray that there will be more and more of not just 'good, young, Bible teachers' in the UK, but more of those who know their God as much as it is possible to, whose faith lasts beyond whatever the current crisis is, who trust in Him who is faithful is a light to those stranded in darkness, in whose very weakness is shown God's perfect strength, whose selfless love shows to many the matchless love of God, and whose first and lasts thoughts of the day are fixed upon the One who stood in front of the sealed tomb of their lives, and wept.

hi, the main problem mr. driscoll has is that he has a sense of humor and he picks on religeous folks who do not; like his holiness prima dogma.

"His style is that of the vulgar colloquial varied by rant... All the most solemn mysteries of our holy religion are by him rudely, roughly, and impiously handled. Mystery is vulgarised, sanctity profaned, common sense outraged; and decency disgusted... His rantings are interspersed with coarse anecdotes that split the ears of the groundlings; and this is popularity!"

That is what the religious press had to say about Spurgeon.

The religious think that a little humor is OK, within certain parameters, but that it is irreverent to jest in the presence of a Holy God.

The truth is that God is a God of Infinite Jest, that man was created strictly for laughs, that the fall of man was a cosmic banana peel prank, that all the world's a vaudeville stage and we are merely ham actors, that Enlightment consists in getting the joke and willingly playing out our own role in the divine comedy. Satan is the spirit of gravity and seriousness is the root of all evil.

These things have been revealed to My Holiness by Direct Revelation, so no one is allowed to argue with me.

by jimp:
hi, the main problem mr. driscoll has is that he has a sense of humor and he picks on religeous folks who do not; like his holiness prima dogma.

Jimp,

EXACTLY!!! He does have a sense of humor and they do not!!

PrimaDogma wrote:
These things have been revealed to My Holiness by Direct Revelation, so no one is allowed to argue with me.

Be it known that I am not arguing with you!!! Thank you, thank you for the humor relief AND the stark contrast at the same time. Many people on here LOVE Spurgeon and look what the religious folk had to say about him in the day!

God bless you both!!
Lisa

hi,all kidding aside, i find that this situation of being self made critics that permeate the church today is a satanic victory and a dangerous situation.Jesus says if you have ought against a brother and you want to give alms,first go to that brother and get it straight between you. if you have strife between you and another brother your prayers are hindered...when a man who slept with his own family member was restored in biblical times, can we not have grace and tolerence for someone who preaches in jeans.jimp

hi, you might have missed something. bring evidece of anything else.again ,he does have a sense of humor that annoys the religeous.

Besides the fact that Mark Driscoll has made a name for himself out of mocking God, Jesus and His Word, how about we weigh Mark (and his 'sense of humour') up against this scripture:

"Let there be no filthiness, nor foolish talk, nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving… let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 5.4, 6).

I wish some people would be as quick and committed to defend God's honour as they are this mans honour.

As for bringing 'evidence', a quick internet search will do that for you. I for one will not repeat any of the disgusting, degrading things Mark Drisoll has said.

Besides the fact that Mark Driscoll has made a name for himself out of mocking God, Jesus and His Word, how about we weigh Mark (and his 'sense of humour') up against this scripture:

I have found that those who oppose a certain preacher the strongest usually get all their fuel for their rants from heresy, (i.e. they have not listened to the first sermon). Is that true with you? Have you "listened" to one of Driscoll's sermons?

AS to your verse reference of, "Let there be no filthiness, nor foolish talk, nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving… let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 5.4,6).

Brother, since you have passed judgment on this man, you now need to make quite sure that NONE of those things EVER pass from your lips during your life time or you yourself will be judged guilty... "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Matt 7.2)

God bless,
Lisa

Lysa,

I cannot even begin to expan on what a twisting of scripture you just did. Jesus was talking about judging righteously, not saying we are never allowed to judge a man or matter. That would be virtually impossible. We must all discern on a daily basis to simply survive.

Please also read 1 Corinthians 5:12-13;

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you."

Clearly Paul is saying we must judge those who claim to be followers of Christ, yet are continuing in a sin and are not repenting.

Mark Driscoll is claiming to be a representative of Christ and yet is clearly being vulgar and crass on a regular basis, worst of all, he uses Gods Word to do it.

I simply have no more time to go on about something that is so clearly wrong and blasphemous.

And for the record, I am a sister, not a brother, younger than Mark Driscoll himself, and still incredibly sickened by his words. Perhaps you should not assume I am a senior aged man who is not with the times.

I no longer want to spend any more of my time replying to people willing to defend a man who says the things Mark does.

notlongnow wrote:
I cannot even begin to expan on what a twisting of scripture you just did. Jesus was talking about judging righteously, not saying we are never allowed to judge a man or matter. That would be virtually impossible. We must all discern on a daily basis to simply survive.

The word clearly says, "For IN THE SAME WAY you judge others, you will be judged..." That means in attitude and in careless disregard for someone's walk in Christ... it will come home to visit you someday. Look, I don't want to alienate you, but it would behoove you to realize this sooner rather than later.

And in all of your aggravation towards me, you didn't answer my question...

I have found that those who oppose a certain preacher the strongest usually get all their fuel for their rants from heresy, (i.e. they have not listened to the first sermon). Is that true with you? Have you "listened" to one of Driscoll's sermons?

God bless you sister,
Lisa

EveresttoSama, yes, sadly I am rapidly finding that to be the case. Thankyou for confirming that to me.

Lysa I disagree with your interpretation of scripture.

As for not answering you question, I really didn't understand how not listening to a full sermon of Mark Driscoll's and heresy are somehow related.

Again, I can't really go anywhere with this discussion when the Word of God on the whole issue is clear but not being heeded.

hi, the greek word krino is the word to judge that is forbidden by God...it means to sit in judgement diakrino is also the english word judge and it is not forbidden for it is the word discern or weigh..the word anakrino is lighter than diakrino and it is also permitted.it is like think about it.krino is also the word translated condemnation or condemn.when the apostles said that fire should fall from heaven and harm someone ,Jesus quickly responded with ...shut up for you do not know what spirit you are speaking to or from. oh, the sons of thunder and us.jimp it can be easy ... is what you are saying about someone like mark stemming from the accuser of the brethren or Jesus.

hi brothertom,i heard the same things that you wrote and went to his church site and listened for 5 straight hours and what i heard made me a fan in that he explained a lot of his stupid mistakes and preached the gospel with power and truth.he is not for everybody and that is why God has other churches in that town as he does in your town and mine.jimp

Why must we spend so much time debating about this man? Is our Christianity so dull that we get attracted to side shows?

by KingJimmy
Why must we spend so much time debating about this man? Is our Christianity so dull that we get attracted to side shows?

God bless,
Lisa

Well everybody, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater... yes a wellknown sentence but just don't do it. Spend time to pray instead of criticizing. Bless your "enemies". Let Christ be preached.