Speaking as an Englishman who loves the Lord Jesus I can tell you with love and truthfulness that the original post is most accurate. I believe that our brothers in the USA are to some extent blinded by the continuity of influence which they have to edure on a daily basis. The same kind of influence is now in England, but it has not reached the same pitch of enthusiasm. Any one who has watched a big league game here in the UK, say between Manchester United and Manchester city will hear the same roar of approval for the efforts of the sportsman who are giving their all to do their chosen work. But what you won't find is idolatry openly displayed and enthusiastically embraced. The day will come, sadly, but not at this time. On the front page of one of our daily news papers Madonna was featured. Please please please brethren tell me if what you saw there was not Babylon. Wake up brethren your country is heading for a great judgment. I say it with tears and a heart for The USA.
Original post re the super bowl event etc.
AMEN!!!!!
,
I have been watching this discussion and would like to add that it is not just a problem in America. There used to be a time when there were not many Indian workers in America. Now, there are many that work here. Many are IT consultants. I work with over 100 Indian consultants. There are some who are Christian and talk about Uncle Zac all the time.
When Cricket season comes around they are watching it at work on their smartphones all during the day. Once I saw them during work hours in a conference room they reserved using a projector connected to a laptop and projecting it on the wall. The room was filled with Christians and Hindus watching the final between India and Australia.
To tell you the truth, I have never seen people so excited about the World Series or Superbowl. Just wanted to illustrate that this is not exclusively an American thing. I believe it has to do with flesh all over the world.
It has taught me that we all have similar problems with the flesh and should not appear holier than others.
Julius
Sorry, I have not posted for some time and I made some mistakes in submitting.
1 Peter 4:17, "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God"
Even without the worship of sport, both the churches and the world have much to answer to God for.
Mark 13:35, "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming..."
Since it is, Christ's return is soon, and more important than sport, (for some), then, let us live like we would want to live for when Christ does return.
God help us.
amrkelly wrote:
The same kind of influence is now in England, but it has not reached the same pitch of enthusiasm. Any one who has watched a big league game here in the UK, say between Manchester United and Manchester city will hear the same roar of approval for the efforts of the sportsman who are giving their all to do their chosen work. But what you won't find is idolatry openly displayed and enthusiastically embraced.
I have no dog in this fight over the superbowl, the only sports I watch on a regular basis is tennis.
I wanted to make a comment on your statement about not reaching the same pitch of enthusiasm of Americans but yet in our matches the fans of one team have never killed another fan of an opposing team, let alone tens or hundreds of them. I'm sure that's only by the grace of God though!
Maybe I misread your post and/or misunderstood it, if so I apologize. If not, can you explain what you see as the difference in the pitch of enthusiasm and/or idolatry between the two countries is?
God bless,
Lisa
Hello Lysa
My principle point I beleive in my post was really regarding the image which Madonna portrayed and the effect it had on the crowd. Of course there is no difference between the UK and the USA when it comes to so-called sports idolatry. As a matter of interest the reference to Madonna in the original post should have been 'I saw a picture' of Madonna on the front page of a UK news paper. What stuck me was the absolute Babylonian apparel she chose to wear. Some would say this is just a wardrobe issue; i.e. choice of dress. I think Madonna knows what effect she has, and her dress as with all her life style, including the good points reflects her soul. Which is to say who she really is. This is not a judgement just an aboservation.
As to the fervour of US and UK sporting interest, the US is ahead in some sports and the UK in others. The fervour to me means the extent to which sport really takes over ones life as an interest. It only really becomes idolatrous when it moves a sincere christian to neglect their walk. I have seen this in the UK and in the US. My apologies for not making myself clear. I love all men no matter where they come from or what their condition is.
As for judgement coming on America I can't prophecy about that. Their are enough sound prophets in America for God's purposes. I only say amen to the original post to which I responded. God Bless you for taking the time to ask me to clarify my point.
My principle point I beleive in my post was really regarding the image which Madonna portrayed and the effect it had on the crowd.
Ok, that makes sense now! Thank you for explaining!
God bless,
Lisa
“The Superbowl is kind of like the Holy of Holies in America. I’ll come at halfway of the “church experience” and I’m gonna have to deliver a sermon. It’ll have to be very impactful.”
-Madonna-
amrkelly said:
"Wake up brethren your country is heading for a great judgment."
You are not the first to say that, and I quote specifically Jeremiah 50:12
"Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert."
This is talking about the daughter of Babylon, or the modern Babylon of our times as a nation. To indentify her Jeremiah uses the mother-daughther relationship, that only fits on one specific relationship in our time. The mother is England, and she is still around to see her offspring fall. America at time of judgment is the hindermost of nations, that means looking back in time at time when this will happen, she is identified as the last great nation that came into existence.
This was revealed to me in 2001, and it became only clearer and more sure as time progresses. Earlier this was the revealtion received: The "big city" in Revelation is NYC. Now usually some views change over time in a life of a Christian, but this one hasn't, it has been confirmed to me over and over again since then, that's why I haven't been there after that.
"To indentify her Jeremiah uses the mother-daughther relationship, that only fits on one specific relationship in our time. The mother is England, and she is still around to see her offspring fall"
Brother - it also fits the relationship of rome and the backslidden protestant churches in the last day. Almost all Bible commentaries prior to the last 50 years recognized rome as the great whore and many recognized her daughters too.
Dear Jim,
you should try to understand what Jeremiah is talking about, he is talking about a nation, his full and only context is "the hindermost of the nations"
Commentators are famous to miss details, just like they missed it in Daniel 8 when they overlooked this qualifier "and touched not the ground" in:
Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
You need to have airplanes for that, something Alexander the great did not have, that is an exclusive qualifier for the end of times. This prophecy actually was sealed until this time and could not be understood earlier, so all Bible commentators of old times are not in any advantage if they chose to overlook that tiny little fact, actually they only prove themselves to be wrong in cases like these. We can see this today by taking the scriptures seriously and willingly choose not to rely on past half-truths. That's a requirement if you want to understand truth.
a-servant,
"you should try to understand what Jeremiah is talking about"
What do you think the connection is between revelation 17-18 and Jeremiah?
"We can see this today by taking the scriptures seriously and willingly choose not to rely on past half-truths. That's a requirement if you want to understand truth."
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth. Are you suggesting I should yeild influence to you but not to Godly men of the past? So anyone who suggests there is a different viable meaning is not serious about understanding the truth? Forgive me if I read you wrong brother.
Also - can I ask what type of fellowship / church you are involved with. I think that plays an import part in this issue too.
I did not write my comment to offend you, only to say there is another viable meaning besides what you presented.
-Jim
In his book, "Set the trumpet to thy mouth", David Wilkerson was one of the first known & respected names to say what you are saying, a-servant. That America is Babylon.
Jim,
I believe there is reference to a physical Babylon in Revelation that is America. I also believe there is a reference to a spiritual Babylon the Great that is Rome. There are tons of evidences in Bible prophecy to support the fact that it isn't an either/or, but both.
Jeff
Time is short. Judgement is at the door
The one world religion has already been born and sits in Manhattan, NY - 'that great city'.
This is a very 'spiritual' year for those who subscribe to this inter-faith united religion.
From a Christian site -
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/forcing-change/12/1-calendar.htm
I just read a long article about the half-time show at this last super-bowl, from some that are very adept at occultic symbology. It was much more complex than what I had imagined that she'd pull off in that small amount of time. Madonna is known for her strong occultic background and she stated that this show of hers would be very 'spiritual'. It certainly was, from all that I've read tonight. Thank GOD I didn't see it but grateful for those that explained the symbology of every aspect of that 13 minute blasphemous 'message to the world'. Her program schedule titled this show "Polytheism".
Remembering that Monotheism is the enemy of Polytheism and that this particular year is Very significant to these pagan-occultists and their utopian dream of a one-world under their order.
It would take a tractor trailer worth of documentation to go into the depths of the mystery religion of Babylon, but simply put, it's seat of power is definitely in and through the UN which sits in that great city.
That great city that temporarily rides that Beast.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns [the 10 kings over the 10 'bio-regions] which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
etc chpt 18
"I believe there is reference to a physical Babylon in Revelation that is America. I also believe there is a reference to a spiritual Babylon the Great that is Rome. There are tons of evidences in Bible prophecy to support the fact that it isn't an either/or, but both.
Jeff"
Jeff - I agree too. I would say that rome is babylon the great and America is babylonian though. That is why I asked a-servant how he viewed Revelation 17/18 in light of Jeremiah. Also, brother Wilkerson, he refers to organized religion in the west as being babylon in his audio message "God is training a holy remnant".
"Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; "
God is calling His people out of spiritual babylon - I can post dozens of scriptures that agree with this. To say that God is calling His people out of america though, as a-servant suggested, would be quite a stretch at best.
As a-servant said my focus might be half the truth, but i believe his is too.
Thanks Jeff for you wise words. There is a lot to think about and gleam from this thread.
In Christ -Jim
Also, good to note that Rome is not just spiritual, but is based on the unholy merger of church and state under constantine. Much like evangelical christianity mixing with the republican party. Rome uses the state to achive her ends and get her power.
I actually was talking about Rome earlier in another thread, of course there is no doubt in anybodys mind that it is part of mystery Babylon, that has more than one component.
That is hardly denied by anybody, what is however largely ignored and denied is that America the nation and NYC the city are a part of this constellation. To downplay that discovery was a great focus on most forums about 5 or 10 years ago, with many people trying to convince themselves that the world's most influential merchants are either from Rome or Jerusalem or a city in the future still to be build.
Then at the same time the "spritualizing" went into effect, of never just reading and accepting plain words like "nation" and "city" and so clearly identifying who qualifies and who doesn't in the outside world. Even if historically viewed, everyone should know that Babylon always was a nation, and of course that nation component is still valid in our time. It's only really painful to discover and fully to look at it, admitting there are pieces of scripture that do not leave even a shadow of a doubt of who it is.
Why is that relevant, and why is that important? Well, if you read Jerimiah 50/51 with your fullest attention, one will discover there are commands included, obviously only for those that understand that these are meant for them. Which are not easy to put into practice. I refer to the long-lasting thread series by Rookie in the scripture and doctrines section here, where he told us of a great example of what faith is to him, accepting and doing what God said, just because God said so, even when it meant a inconcenience to him he not fully understood the final reason of why God asked him to change his location and his job. I very much understand and agree with this brother, I change continents when God tells me to.
It was the evil forces of Satan acting through religion that persecuted Jesus, and likewise it is primarily through the "front" of religion that the Evil One continues to harass and do battle against Christians. Will Christians endure and persevere in their faithful reliance upon the victory that Jesus Christ won at the cross, or will they revert to religious practices that effectively deny Jesus Christ? This is the issue being addressed throughout the Revelation, and even more particularly in these chapters.
I found this very enlightening.
Religion and the Beasts
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revbeast.html
Religion and Babylon
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revbabyl.html
Pilgrim
a-servant,
I do not think we are to far off in this thread, maybe in emphasis only. I have not heard the Lord tell me to change continents, but he did call me to flee from the harlot church system in america. I have read some of rookies stuff - I am not sure if I am looking at the thread you are talking about though. Do you have a link?
In Christ -Jim
Going back to the original post:
"Wake up brethren your country is heading for a great judgment. I say it with tears and a heart for The USA"
This is where the questions start. Is America heading for judgment because of Madonna or because of its christendom?
In Christ -Jim
Well that's a start to understand the state of the church system,
I usually always dig deeper and eventually discover the base bottom line of all system components involved
Rookies post where he started talking about moving locations, againts logic and pay check benefits is the one dated 2011/12/11
when I think back, I also had a training in "moving" so when the call came, I wasn't overwhelmed by the task to actually do it on a larger scale. So far it worked out great, Jesus not only commands, he is also very active in providing. I had no specific expectations, however am very impressed with the kind and regularity of His provsions, it's hardly comphrendable by my logic. Praise the Lord !
P.S. "Is America heading for judgment because of Madonna or because of its christendom?"
What does the scriptures give us as a reason for Babylon's fall? Did you ever check...that's how I got confirmation. It fits very well, now that I could compare the basic mentality with that of Europeans and Asians. The original poster hinted at that, but I'm sure most Americans cannot actually understand it, because you never went outside the country. It's true, America is an extreme place and more worldly than any other part of the world. Sodom & Gom. could have learned a few tricks from the US and how to take it to a global level. Don't forget the cultural export of the content package all over the globe, including a softened down gospel that not actually saves anyone. Just to rescue the real gospel Jesus must intervene at a point in time. I only could see that with my new perspective and after talking a lot with believers in other parts of the world, they are very different in many respects.
There won't be anywhere on earth to run 'to'.
Jeremiah warned Israel that they were going into captivity.
Later he brings up the Babylon of the last days.
GOD showed him ahead of time what that new Babylon would be like "in those days".
What's been on my heart is that, Paul said that he buffeted his body to bring it into subjection.
WE are going to go into captivity - but not just the U.S. but eventually the whole world will have to decide whether to take a mark in order to buy or sell.
I find that Paul's suggestion to bring our own bodies under subjection is excellent preparation for captivity.
I had a fear of sleeping on the floor, because my back hurt if I did - so I slept on the floor, by faith.
I believe in doing this with every fear that comes at me, because how many times do we need to hear about, food shortages, detention camps, etc. before we finally take these things seriously?
I don't see Jeremiah telling his people to be ostriches and to keep their heads stuck in the ground, but to "get ready".
We can run into our "Strong Tower".
I refuse to walk in fear and worry about the future. I refuse to listen to prophets of doom that set dates.
I have passed from death into life.
Every century has had its troubles. If you walk in fear you are only going to think about yourself.
He that would seek to save his life will lose it. And many Christians today are doing everything they can to save their lives.
Do you remember Corrie Ten Boom's sister in the Concentration camp? She only thought about others. Remember Corrie? At first she was full of fear and rage and had to bring all that to the cross. Her sister showed her Christ and eventually Corrie saw Christ, too.
He melts away all of our fears. We walk in victory whether we have much or whether we have little. He is the Victor over Babylon and the Great Harlot.
His peace to all,
Pilgrim
"He that would seek to save his life will lose it. And many Christians today are doing everything they can to save their lives. "
Pilgrim - these are my exact same thoughts. I wrote this almost two years ago.
A rebuke to Christian Conspiracy Theorists
February 20, 2010
For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying: “ Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’ Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread. He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken. ~ Isaiah 8:11-15 NKJV
The Illuminati, New World Order, FEMA death camps… having a website named “Flee Babylon”, I certainly have been contacted by many professing Christians that are obsessed with end time conspiracy theories. Let me first say that this post is NOT intended to contradict any of these popular topics. In fact, I believe there are some truths in these matters. My main contention rather is with the unbiblical obsession with these topics that do little to mortify the sinful members or produce the life of Christ in any believer.
Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. ~ Luke 9:23-24 NKJV
Believing in the “end times” does not make you a believer in Christ. Following the latest conspiracy theories does not make you a follower of Jesus. As I responded to one email that asked me about large quantities of black coffins being stored in a major US city… “What about the black coffins in your own heart”. We are commanded to love our neighbor, turn from greed, hatred, pride, lust, and to love the Lord with all of our hearts; we are never commanded to become obsessed with conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories revolve around the fear of man and government. I think many professing Christians obsess about these things because they refuse the cross now in times of peace. They are at ease in Zion and fear anything that will disturb them on their comfortable beds of ivory. For now they can convince themselves that they are following Christ, but what about when the choice has to be made to be killed or accept the mark? That day cannot be prepared for by simply storing up food and water or watching the national news. We must feed on bread from heaven and drink living waters and watch our own hearts if we are to stand for Christ in that day. Christ is still a rock of offense to those who claim to believe His Gospel but live their lives by avoiding the cross at any price.
“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! ~ Luke 12:4-5 NKJV
jimdied2sin:
Pilgrim - these are my exact same thoughts. I wrote this almost two years ago.A rebuke to Christian Conspiracy Theorists
February 20, 2010
This is definitely a word from the Lord! Thank you for sharing it.
God bless,
Lisa
Only the ostriches - those who's eschatology is warped by choice and those who's spiritual eyesight of the times we're living is intentionally blurred, will be "fearful", unbelieving and will compromise in the days ahead.
...
I have to say that I am heartened to read some of the posts which a-servant fired up when he wrote about NYC/America and Babylon. My eyes are firmly fixed on Jerusalem and Rome. However, some years ago (10) I began to realise that the USA was very babylonian in some of its principle characteristics. Of course, in reality of historical fact, the ancient city of Babylon was the very epitome of that spiritual enterprise. What we all now refer to simply as Babylon or Mystery Babylon is at once both real and a mystery. Given that I had for the previous 17 years looked to Rome the city as mystery babylon I was for a little while quiet confused. Although I was at peace. It is true that America has enough sound prophets for God's purposes in America. But here are a few of my personal meditations on America, given that I am called to go to Jerusalem and Rome in the end and not to the USA.
The ancient city of Babylon was at the time of Daniel the most administrated city in the world. Not only did it have an advanced system of administration but even the kings of Babylon were subject to the rule of law. At first Daniel was persecuted for refusing to worship the image, which was the law. And he was tried by fire. Only then did God the true God receive His righteous praise. When Daniel was thrown into the lions den even stranger things appear, the king lays on the ground and says to Daniel may your God preserve you Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar was given the name King of Righteousness, which we know is a name of Christ. His conduct and willingness to protect Daniel, whom he called the greatest of sorcerers (Belteshazzar) is eveident by Daniel's successes in preparing a place for the exile of Israel seventy years later. Nebuchadnezzar wasn't particularly wise or well informed when it came to the things of God. However, he was, after the furnace, willing to protect Daniel according to God's will and he did so. Daniel lived to a great age and died in Babylon.
All prophets of God must know how to speak according to God's will to those whom God has called them to speak too. If a man says 'I am a prophet' and he isn't, then he is not a false prophet he is simply a liar. However, when a true prophet speaks according to his own imagination or according to what men want to hear, then he is a false prophet. True and false is not simply about God's calling it is about hearing God or hearing one's own soul and the will of other men. The gospel of Christ is the spirit of prophecy. So as matter of spiritual reality all who are born again of the Spirit of God are able to prophecy. If they seek that gift of prophecy. The ministry of the prophet according to Paul to the church at Ephesus is an appointed ministry of the Word of Christ in distinction to the gift which is by the will of the Holy Spirit.
When a-servant spoke about NYC/America he was speaking out of his own calling. He is a servant in The USA. What else should he speak about!
To question it is wrong unless you can demonstrate that a-servant is false. I think his remarks are sincerely given and are true in as much as they are real for America. Rome is another matter.
As to America's real condition you should ask yourselves (US citizens) how many presidents of the USA have taken the name of the Lord as their own? Also examine what a profound influence America has had since the 2nd world war on all nations because of her great wealth and power of administration? Here likes wisdom not opinion or the striving after knowledge.
The USA won its right to be a nation by the shedding of her own blood and the suffering of her women and children. England lost her right to govern the former colony because of her own immorality at that time during the reign of the Georgian kings. By war, and by immorality are nations born and lost. Each one according to their own conduct and most especially because of God's will.
My heart has grown towards the USA in recent years because I have discerned that God cannot overlook her immorality, idolatry and the self seeking of her citizens. Only in the USA is a person constitutionally bound to seek their own satisfaction. If we love the law of God and in the Spirit we belong to Him through Christ's life, death and resurrection, then we can according to our own will seek after Christ, lose our souls and thereby gain our true satisfaction at His coming kingdom. For where the King is there is the Kingdom.
May almighty God bring about a great awakening in His servants in all places. England is no better than the USA. The greatest distinction though is that in the UK self seeking as a matter of legal right has only happened through the advent of the Court of Human Rights. The USA had this right the moment Mr. Washington and Mr Adams had finished their labours.
As for Madonna and the Super Bowl. Well what to say. She chose her name which means 'Mother of God'. and she lives a self seeking Babylonian lifestyle in all respects. She even selects her own children from among the nations. In the end she needs to be saved and come to a true knowledge of God as do all men. As a symbol her appearance, and her comments kindly supplied by a-servant, speak for themselves. Its not so important a point to contend over. She was a mere symbol.
Amen.
I have made no less than 4 corrections to this post and feel a complete fool. On the other hand I am glad to have been given the opportunity to have done so. I say a fool because such mistakes as a mans name or a quote are foolish things in such important issues as these. My thanks to the moderators who have allowed this in their wisdom.
I'm just now seeing your post, Brother Andrew. You're seeing right.
[edit: bridled tongue]
Small world and getting smaller every day. I'm glad for your second post bumping your earlier one that I hadn't seen.
{eta} could you explain what you mean by "to Rome and Jerusalem"?
Greetings from Babylon, Motherlander.
See you when we see Him!
Nothing to share really. Simply a matter of the Lord's showing me where I will end my days. First to Rome (Vatican City) lastly to Jerusalem. Rome concerning those who take the name of Christ in that city. Jerusalem to rebuke a man.