And What is Meant by the Word?

Basic question. How do we understand what the word is. John writes in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Such a glorious statement that would take all of eternity to ponder. Against John 1:1 all doctrinal creeds and church histories and Bible translations pale. Who is the Word. In Revelation John says his name is called the Word of God. Might I suggest that the Word is Jesus. For we are not called into fellowship with a written book. For we are called to fellowship with him who is the Way, and the Truth anf the Life. We are called to fellowship with Jesus who is the Wotd.

In Revelation when the fifth seal is broken we see the witnesses, the martyrs. They cry for God's justice. These precious saints have been slain for the Word of God and the testimony they had maintained. These saints were not slain for a Bible. They were slain for the person of Jesus, him who is the Word. They followed Jesus, the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Their allegiance was not the book but to him who is the Author of the book, to him who is the Word.

When I read about the persecuted their testimony is about him who is the Word. Their testimony is about an encounter with the living Word. They speak of an encounter with Jesus. Their devotion is not to the book itself. Their devotion is to Jesus who is the Word. It is sincere and pure devotion to Jesus that sustains the persecuted.

When many Moslems come to Christ it is primarily through a vision of Jesus, who is the Word. The Bible just confirms the dream or vision. So again our fellowship is with him, who is the Word. For John writes that our fellowship is with the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. He says this after saying that we proclaim the Word of life.

When John writes to the young men who have overcome the evil one. He says they are strong and the Word of God lives in them. That would be Jesus, the Word hmself who lives in them. For he writes further in his epistle the one who is in them is greater than the one who is in the world. In other words Jrsus, the living Word living in the saint is greater than the devil who controls the world. For this we say Halleujah!!!@

So how did the early church in the first 30 years evengelize the known world at the western end of the Mediteranean Sea. I mean they did not have the Bible par say. Some of the Jewish churches may have had some of the Old Testament scriptures. The Apostles were not writing their letters to the churches until mid century. So hoe did the young fellowships grow. No church historians or Sermon Index or commentaries or KJV Bible. I mean the early church did not hVe the word.

Oh yes they did. The early church had Jesus who is the Word and how the early church turned the world upside down with the gospel. They had the Word They had him who is the Word. They had Jesus.

The Bibke has been a blessing and still a blessing. But sometimes I wonder if the Bible has not been a stumbling block to our coming to Jesus. Look at the debates that rage in this forum over Bible doctrine and the translation of the Bibke to use. After all Jesus told the Pharisees that they diligently studied the scrptures that testified of him. But that they would not come to him for life.

I think that the most depraved of sinners who has no Bible knowledge stands a better chance of recieving salvation than the religious person. Yet I fear for the new convert when the religionist gives him a Bible. And gear we go.

At the risk of being heritical. I wonder if we would do well to put our Bibles aside and focus in him who is the Word in prayer and worship. For only when we truly delight in the living Word that lives in us can we truly apprecate the written wotd that speaks of him. For it is Jesus that gives life and not the written code.

I have written this to edify. I have shared from my heart. I pray these thoughts are a blessing. I close with this quote from a Christmas card I saw years ago. I think it best sums up what I say.

For the Word did not become a philosophy, theology, or a cocept to be discussed, debated, or pondered. But the Word became a Person to be followed, loved, and enjoyed.

Posted by Blaine Scogin

In John 5:39-40

You diligently study the scriptures because you think by them you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that speak about me. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

When I first came to Christ I had drilled into me you had to study your Bible, read your Bible, memorize your Bibke, etc. It was always to study your Bible to defeat the devil or defeat others in theological arguments.

As I ponder the above verses it seems that the purpose of scripture is to testify about Jesus. The purpose of the Bible is simply to autheticate our experience with Jesus. As I shared in my previous post the word of God living in us is simply Jesus who is the living Word himself.

The Pharissees were great Bible students. They knew the Torah backwards and forward. Yet their very Bible stood between them and Jesus. Jesus told the Jews that they did not have the wotd of God dwelling in them because they did not believe in the one God had sent (Jn.5:38). But how could this be? After all the Pharissees were professional Bible students. You woukd think they would be full of the word.

The Pharissees were experts in the written word. They had no experience with the living Word of Jesus himself. Jesus was not living in their heart. The very scriptures they studied stood between them and Jesus.

Does our Bible keep us from Jesus? Do we worship the Bible more than Jesus? Does Jesus, the living Word dwell in our hearts? Do we live in that loving relationship with him who is our life? Do we hear his voice?

I close with a modification of the Christmas card quote in the previous post.

For the word did not become a 'book' to be discussed, debated or pondered.

But the Word became a 'person' to be followef, lived, and enjoyed.

For your edification.

Blaine Scogin

These brothers have conveyed far more elequently what I have tried to share. Thanks Pilgrims for posting this. For they confirm what God is showing me.

Blaine

If just ONE young Christian tosses his Bible aside as unnecessary and begins to believe that the Word of GOD - GOD's Word, the Bible, is not what it Says that it is, because of any of you - I would not want to be in your shoes when you stand Face to face with the Author of that book, that was left for us because of the Saints that spilled their blood to be sure each generation were able to have His Word in their hands and the many Ministries that are even to this day, laboring to get His Written Word to the world, at the risk of their own lives and those who would walk, literally miles, just to have a torn out page of it.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.

2Thess 2 - The strong delusion begins just like this - by those that throw away The Truth of His Word.

The Holy Spirit is given to testify to Truth and you are leading the vulnerable away from it.

Yet, you love your 'own' words and expect Him to hear your prayers and to have power over the enemy?
Jesus used Only 'The Word' against the enemy and never 'spoke' His Own words while in the flesh.

GOD brings The Word miraculously to those in countries that don't have anything to read of it.

THANK GOD FOR THE BIBLE SMUGGLERS!

and GOD forgive you

Pilgrin, I put up this thread [link below] as a rebuttal of this thread by Blaine, rather than to come onto this thread initially ...

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43344&forum=45&5

All he can keep repeating to himself are, words from "a CHRISTMAS card."

The HOLY Spirit did not "Author" this thread.

I don't see me posting here anymore at SermonIndex because I feel The LORD telling me to get off and just PRAY that GOD Himself will send in the men that KNOW how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and to defend Him and His Word and His Saints and can defend those that have since gone on to Heaven, Very Well.

I will and Do believe GOD, that the men of GOD that I've met here since 2005 will come back and blow the doors off of any compromising messages being spued out on this forum - For 'HIS' Name Sake to this world.

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple,
and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness
and for THY TRUTH:
FOR THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME.

In Jesus' Name I plead - we need men of GOD that are not all full of their own words and selves. Who's writings can be verified BY The WORD of GOD!

Please allow me to comment if I may.

Yahchanan (John) was a Hebrew. He spoke in his native dialect.

Please note, The Greek word logos (word) in its ordinary meaning comes from the Hebrew word "I"
Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, page 380

The Hebrew word used is "DABAR" which refers to a PLAN.
A Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament, by Julius
Furst, page 312

Read the correct translation of the following Scripture.

Yahchanan 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the plan of Yahweh, and the plan was with Yahweh, and the plan was Yahweh's.
2 The same plan was in the beginning with Yahweh.
3 All things were done according to it, and without it nothing was done, that was done.
4 In this plan was life, and that life was the light to mankind.

John 1:1 is speaking of the plan of Life. Our Savior was part of that plan from the beginning. Yahweh in his infinite wisdom saw to it that his plan for salvation will go through; and will be completed upon the return of our High Priest and soon coming King. Yahshua Messiah.

Halləlûyāh

I apologize this thread has become contentious. That was never the intention. Unfortunaty there is aleays the aspect of misunderstanding. First of all please let me clarify something. I am not saying thow away your Bible. Personally I listen to a digital Bible as well as read it on a daily basis. I do this as part of my daily walk with Christ. I bless God for the written word. Though I am finding greater delight in listening to it. There is something very powerful, penetrating, and marvelous about the spoken wotd through the ear gate. For I believe this was how the early church heard the word, orally, since many of the saints were illiterate. And access to the scriptures was limited.

Yet the early church had Jesus who is the living Word living with them who was leading and guiding and instructing them. We must not forget that the early church did not have even the New Testament codified. But they had the Holy Spirit who was Jesus, the Word living in them. Before the written word, the Bible, there was the living Word, Jesus himself. This is the Word lived in the early church. This is the Word that lives in us. It is Jesus.

I think Lorddoitagain's post beautifully depicts what I have tried to share above about the early church. There are some unreached people groups of UPG's that have no access to written scriptures. Yet they hear the marvelous gospel story through the JESUS video or oral story. They come to faith in Jesus. Yet growth in Jesus is primarily cultivating that walk in prayer. Maybe learning some gospel truth in other story form. But primarily these people grow by the Word who lives in them. For many of these UPG's are illiterate.

This is why I say we are called into a relationship with Jesus who is the living Word and not the Bible that is the written word. We are in relationship with a Person who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He writes his laws upon our hearts. The Bible does not save us, Jesus does. The Bible does not give us life, Jesus does. The Bible does not make us holy. Jesus does. Can God use the Bible for these things. Yes, he can. But let us remember the scriptures testify of Jesus. But we go to him for life. Our aim is Jesus himself, not the book itself.

Blaine Scogin

I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Indeed one does overcome the evil one with the word of God living in them. But who are what is the word of God. When the beloved Apostle John wrote his epistle, there was no codified Bible. How would his readers understand what the word of God was or is.

Again I suggest the word of God is Jesus himself. In the opening verses of this precious letter John describes Jesus as the Word of life. This is Jesus who lives in us. Indeed when John writes that the one who lives in us is greater than the one who is on the world he means Jesus. This is why he tells the young men they are strong and the word of God lives in them, Jesus, and they have overcome the evil one. Jesus, the living Word, indwelling the precious child of God will enable them overcome the devil.

To think that the glorious truth of John 1:1, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This is that same Word living within us. Such a glorious, eternal reality should stir our hearts to glorious wonder and worship of Jesus.

To think that the Eternal Son of God, the Wotd of life himself would choose to live in us sinners, now made saints, should stir us to a deeper, more intimate love of Jesus. This profound love of the Savior will motivate us to hol8ness, worship, evangelism, etc. For this is what the indwelling, Word, him who is Jesus, will make us do. For his Spirit will mold us more into his glorious image.

May we lay hold of that glorious reality of the Word of God living in us, that is Jesus. For sure, the word did not become a book to be discussed, debated, or pondered. But the glorious Word became a person to be followed, lioved, and enjoyed. And his name is Jesus and he lives in us. Halleujah.

For your edification and blessing.

Blaine

Excellent posts, Brothers Dave and Ron.

[fixed/edit]

Amen, my brother.

Blaine

Amen, my brother.

Blaine

This is the covenant, I will make with the house of Israel, after that time, declares the Lord.

I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God and they will be my people.

No linger will a man teach his neighbor or a man his brother saying "Know the Lord", because they will all know me from the least of them to the greatest.

But I will forgive their wickedness and remember their done no mote.

Such beautiful, glorious verses the writer of Hebrews leaves us with. These are the promises of the New Covenant. We apprehend by faith that he will be our God and we will be his people. We take by faith that God will forgive our iniquities and remember our sins no more. Such beautiful, eternal realities that resonate in our hearts and minds that we do say 'Halleujah, Halleujah, What a Savior'.

Yet we balk at the other verses that say, 'I will put my laws in their minds and write them in their hearts'. Will not that same faith allow us to lay hold of this glorious truth? Can we not believe that we are new creations of Christ Jesus given new hearts encoded with his eternal law of love from above?

Does not Paul write to the Romans that the reqirements of the law are written on their hearts and tells the Corithians they are living letters of God. For one who is born from above has been given a heart with God's law of love written on it.

This is what sustained the the church in those first years before written instructions. It was the Spirit of Jesus who wrote his wotd into the hearts of the saints. This is what sustains those cultures with no access to written scriptures. It is the living Word of Christ himself in the heart of the believer. And this is what sustains the persecuted today. The living Presense of the Eternal Word himself being in the heart of the believers.

Saints think on these glorious truths. How marvelous the Eternal Word is living in us. His blessed Spirit has ready deposited his Word from him who is the Word into our lives. Gaze in beauty on Jesus. This is the slain Lamb we follow. This is who the persecuted spill their blood for. For our allegiance is to the Living Word in us. Not to the written words on paper.

As Ray bolts wrote years ago. I pledge allegiance to the Lamb.

For your edification and blessing.

Blaine Scogin

Saints think on these glorious truths. How marvelous the Eternal Word is living in us. His blessed Spirit has ready deposited his Word from him who is the Word into our lives.

Brother, allow me to add some balance to your thread. Closing your eyes and believing with all your heart that you are a professional pianist will not automatically turn you into a pianist. It takes years of work and perseverance.

This applies to the Saints; the Saints uphold everyword that proceeds out of His mouth. The saints know the Law, uphold the Law and practice the Law. Just like the pianist, practice makes perfect.

"I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts" The Saint will come to this level of perfection where they will not need to refer to a maniscript to quote or teach the Law.

This is what this verse means brother.
I don't intend to discuss the Law; I know where most people stand on this matter, but lets' not make scripture out to be something that it's not.

The Messiah cannot write on your heart something that you detest.

The man, Richard Wurmbrand, was a Bible scholar, devoting his life to The Word in it's original languages.

He had deposited into his spirit more than just a casual reading of The Word, but intensive study.

The Word is deposited into our spirit and regardless of what the mind cannot recall, after being tortured and drugged or even if one gets Alheimer disease - The LORD of The Word blesses and holds those children of His that reverenced His Word, which He magnifies above His Name.

"He giveth and giveth and giveth again"

Rather than discuss those that don't have The Word, why don't we make every effort on earth, to get The Word into those hands that are desperately crying out for just one page of it?
From our hands to theirs and if nothing else, if we can't spare one dollar to help - Please pray for these ministries and those risking their lives to get it to them, even now.
Thank you for considering this possibility, as well.

But not everyone is like Richard Wormbrandt and though he was a brilliant Biblical scholar he had forgotten what he learned in his imprisonment. The only thing he did remember was Jesus and it was that precious, indwelling Word that sustained him. And it is still that precious, indwelling Word that sustains the persecuted in Eritrea, China, Iran, India, etc.

Yes. We need to support Bible couriers. We pray for such. We pray that the word goes into restricted area. But forum I ask you. What do you do with those unreached people groups or UPG's who cannot read a. Bible? They have no written tradition or language. There are several hundred such groups in the world today who have no written language. But many such groups do have an oral tradition. This is why the JESUS video had been so effective in reaching these people in their own language. In addition story tellers will tell the gospel story to these people. They will head and respond to the story of Jesus.

Because of these efforts many UPG's will come to Christ. But as one poster said earlier in this thread they have no access to the scriptures. They have no commentaries, critical works, reference, works, seminaries, or Sermon Index. These simple saints could not tell you who Leonard Ravenhill or Paul Washer were. But they do have Jesus. They do have the living Eternal Word of Life living in them. Are their lives any less productive because they have no Bible. If anything these simple, precious believers bear more fruit because they are focussed on Jesus. They are not distracted by the Bible as we are. They are certainly not debating it. Again as the poster earlier.in this thread observed they are certainly not correcting one anothers theology. But praying and fasting for the story of Jesus to go forth.

We have to stop thinking with this western mindset to presupposes that one needs to be literate and have a book to be fruitful for Jesus. The early church did not have a Bible, they had Jesus. It is the same with those who have no written tradition yoday. They have Jesus.

Blaine Scogin

There was a missionary who had been kidnapped by a terrorist group and was their prisoner for 3 months. By God's mercy she was set free. During her captivity she said she could not remember any Bible verses she had memorized. She coukd only remember the stories about Jesus. She could only remember Jesus.

I invite you to check out Joyful_Hearts post on the young man who died with the name of Jesus on his lips.

Blaine

Hey brother Blaine,

Its not the Bible that is distracting, its people's efforts to convinnce others that their doctrine is correct then to dis-fellowship with them if they do not agree that is distracting.

I have yet to meet a genuine Christian who did not hunger for the word of God. Now, some may not have access to the Scriptures, they may only have a page or a book but not the whole, but they cherish what they do have because its Gods diary. I know you would agree with these sentiments.

Some of the signs I look for in people who claim to be Christians are.....

1. Have they been transformed into a new creature, has the old things passed away.

2. Do they have a passion for Jesus. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks ( I know that because it is written) People speak about their passions, whether its sports or cars or politics or history, its the same with genuine Christians, they speak about Jesus, not as an abstract concept or a man from history, but as someone they know and have met.

3. Do they love other Christians, do they love to fellowship, do they love to worship.

4. Do they have a love for the Word of God. Not as thelogians, I have met many dry and dusty theologians who know the Scriptures back to front yet have not an ounce of passion for their Lord nor love for their brothers and sisters.

And so, love for the Word of God is definately a sign of a genuine Christian to me. Scripture is indespesible in our walk. There is a reason the Catholic church denied its members for centuries access to it, chained it to the pulpits and dug up the bones of its tranlator and burned those bones. For within the Scriptures lies testimony to the Truth, written without error by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. Scriptures is one giant arrow that points to Jesus. Now the written word is not Jesus, Jesus is Jesus. Jesus is the logos, as written in John 1, meaning, He is the divine expression of God. When we see Jesus, we see God. God the Father wanted to give us Truth, and so He sent His Son who is Truth. Jesus is not the book of Acts nor is He the book of Romans, He is the Truth that these books testify off. We do not worship these books, we worship what these books testify of. Yet we treasure these books because God wrote them and in them and by them He leads us and He guides us through the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the personification of Truth and the testimony of Scripture records that. Words are a vehicle for communication. If I have a thought and do not share it through words they remain hidden in my heart.

God expressed Himself to the world by sending His only Son. This has been recorded and written. Now the Living God lives in the hearts of His children and teaches them through His word. Now if someone comes to know Jesus and has no access to the Word then this will not stop the Holy Spirit leading and guiding them into all truth. Yet, if they were then presented with a Bible they would be astonished that the truth written is a confimation of the Truth received and they would spend the rest of their lives reading and studying and treasuring it. We wosrhip the Lord in Spirit and in Truth. We need both and those who know HIm will have both and we treasure the word that records these truths and commandments. The word confirms what genuine Christians know in their hearts by the Holy Spirit. The word is a witness to the Truth. The Holy Spirit is a witness to the Truth, Jesus is the Truth.........bro Frank

And RainydayGirl, Brother Frank and Lordoitagain expressed very well what I was trying to say :P

:)

I woukd like to thank each and everyone of you who have posted on this thread. I have read each post and your thoughts have stimulated my thinking in some areas. I also want to thank you for maintaining civility and respect for each other. Though our discussion got intense at times, for the most part self control was maintained. Again thank you.

I may stand down for a time to process before the Lord about the relationship of the living Word to the written word. Those who feel led please comment as you are led.

With love and blessing.

Blaine