Franklin Graham's sad presentation of the "Gospel"

Sadly I watched secular Liberals expose the preposterous twistings and turnings of a man, who seemed not to know what is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. He believes that Rick Santorum is a Christian because of his good morals??? He states that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ??? I wacthed the whole interview and it made me squirm in my seat. http://youtu.be/ntF-uIs7ork ... bro Frank

One of those things already figured. Everything's being shaken.

Bless you, Brother Frank.

Shaken, yes, everything...........bro Frank

This is sad. I respected Franklin Graham for his stand for the gospel. Now as one of the SI threads is asking. Does he know what the gosoel is?

A year ago he takes a bold stand against Islam and says Jesus is the only way for salvation. But now acknowledges a Mormon can be a Christian. I am somewhat puzzled about Franklin.

Blaine

This is sad. I respected Franklin Graham for his stand for the gospel. Now as one of the SI threads is asking. Does he know what the gosoel is?

A year ago he takes a bold stand against Islam and says Jesus is the only way for salvation. But now acknowledges a Mormon can be a Christian. I am somewhat puzzled about Franklin.

Blaine

Brother Blaine, this is just another example of watering down what it means to be a Christian. I am glad that the media was talking about, but I was sad that yet another Christian " leader," ran from the bold statements of what it means to be a Christian. Perhaps a refresher course on the third chapter of the Gospel of John for those who claim to be leaders..........bro Frank

Hi Solomon, first of all I do not claim to follow Christ. I do follow Christ.Secondly the interview lasted over 10 minutes. I am assuming you did not see the full interview? What is disgusting is the watering down of the Gospel. Are we now to believe that salvation is based on being a ,Catholic or having good morals? If you believe that. or that we worship the same Jesus as the mormons do, as Franklin claimed, then you and I worship a different Jesus. There is the Jesus of the Gospel and then there are Mormon Jesus's and Jehovahs Witnesses Jesus' and to say there is not is to add to the woeful state of Christianity in the West today. This is the age of compromise . I shall not compromise the name of Jesus for political expediancy........ Bro Frank

(edited for spelling, sent it from my phone)

comment removed. God bless you appolus for having discernment and taking a beating for it.

-Jim

I think Solomon's reply to my post is useful. I believe what we see here is the challenge that is going to face every genuine Christian in this coming generation. This is not a thread that attacks a man or his ministry because of some thelogical disagreement, this, at least to me, is foundational. There is such a hostility when those who water down the Gospel are challenged.

It is now politically incorrect and unacceptable to say that Mormonism is a cult, which it clearly is, it does not worship the Biblical Jesus, they believe that Jesus is Satans brother and that He is a created being. Brothers and sisters, have we sunk that low that we cannot acknowledge that truth?

Do we now believe that by being Catholic means that you are saved? I would dearly love to hear what others think about that deception? My goodness, the reformers and the martyrs must be turning in their graves. Their courage to stand against the Catholic church cost them everything, now we live in a generation where men are afraid to tell the truth lest they offend. Solomon, maybe you do believe that Catholics are Christians, maybe you also believe that the Jesus Mormons claim to worship is the Jesus of the Bible, if that is so, then we shall clearly have to agree to disagree. Perhaps we do not even agree on what it means to be born again? Is that possible? Perhaps it is? ......bro Frank

"Good thing Jesus got to the woman at the well first, no telling what we might have done to her, or said about her. This should be an example of how we should react, like Jesus did. "

Bill - I am not sure if your misleading analogy is willful or not, but Jesus would treat the leaders of christendom like he did the pharisees, not the woman at the well.

-Jim

"I think Solomon's reply to my post is useful. I believe what we see here is the challenge that is going to face every genuine Christian in this coming generation"

This is true brother. Those who tow the line of false unity will receive the applause of men. Those who speak out will be casted out of the synagogue. Those who allow every form of abomination labeled as christianity will rejoice in the deception and hate those that do not play along in their delusion. The only people we should judge on SI are those who call to light deception. All other judging is evil as it ruins the party.

In Christ -jim

Okay guys, lest just set the record straight and perhaps the others can just relax, this is not indicitive of this site and this is not a roast or a stoning or any other analogy that those with an axe to grind want to jump in and say. I have made no accusations. I dont do that. I am calling this man to account for saying that Rick Santorum is a Christian based on his morals.

Remember, Franklin Grahman and his father already ackowledge that Catholics are Christians, in fact Billy would send Catholics who came forward to get saved back to the Catholic church in Scotland. Secondly, I am holding Franklin to account for saying that the Mormons acknowledge Jesus, they do not, not the Jesus of the Bible, that is simply fact and if some do not like it then I cannot change the facts.

All he had to say, when asked if Romney is a Christian, was, now this is gonna be hard for some folks..........no. Santorum has made no claim to be born again, Santorum is a Catholic and many Catholics I know ( I was born and raised a Catholic) have excellent morals and are upstanding individuals, but what has any of that to do with being born again. This is basics we are talking about here folks. Just because some will jump in with a flame thrower and start screaming about Judgmentalism and so forth will not change the facts.

Please lets stick to the facts. If you disagree with me and you believe that this was a good presentation of the Gospel( what it means to be saved) then by aall means share. But attacking me or others who agree with me ( and admittedly this view is becoming a minority view) is not very helpful......... bro Frank

"You will give an account for every idle word one day. Contemplating what the Lord may feel or say about those who falsely sling mud on His bride ... and in the process help to destroy the faith of many... is a very scary thing I would think. I should stop if I were you. Just my 2 cents."

Solomon,

You will give account for promoting the lakeland revival and calling evil good. I would stop if I were you also. Take the plank out of your own eye friend.

Jim

Solomon said:

"BuFolks who are demonstrating no power of God then accusing and shooting believers who are actually trying to reach others. "

"God help us and have mercy on the self righteous ones who feel compelled to throw mud on your bride. Unbelievable!"

It sounds like you are judging too solomon. The word hypocrite comes to mind.

-Jim

"For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; "

Paul - you call yourself an apostle while slinging mud on the bride of Christ? You will give an account for this judging Paul. I have seen your other epsitles and detect that you have a critical spirit. At least those Cretians are trying to reach people while you are just rotting in a prison cell.

Hi Frank, It was my understanding years ago that Franklin wasn't interested in his fathers work in the ministry. No doubt there was coaxing and perhaps a little twisting of the arm to get this man motivated to accept a position that his Dad had sat for many years. Instead of looking to Jesus to ordain ministers for this organization men of high rank seem to think that their own flesh and blood have to take over the ministry.
I remember years ago when our Pastor died that the Church had passed on to his son, a few years later, he ran off with the secretary and the church fell apart. The doors closed and the building sold and it's members having to find another place to attend. I am not saying that the son was bad, but men think that the ministry has to run in the family and they forget that the ministry belongs to God and God will name his minister for that Church not the current Pastor. That is why I appreciated David Wilkerson, he didn't look to his own flesh to head up Times Square Church, instead he looked for God's leading and picked a preacher from an obscure town in Canada, Carter Conlon.

Billy Graham's policy is scary. I have no idea where he is at with God and I don't even want to think about it, but he was being interviewed by Robert Schuller once and he blurted out that Muslims who did not know Christ were saved. When Schuller heard that he was so thrilled that he believed that. For anyone to believe that they have to be a Universalist.

Franklin Graham was probably briefed in this policy and must not go to far right or too far left, just remain at a happy medium. That is a scary place to be.

Most all Christian organization start out well. Most of them if not all, had God's stamp of approval. But along the way something happens that causes them to forsake the leading of the Lord and go with the leading of their own pernicious ways. We know this to be true in the Methodist and Wesleyan movements. Though the organization is corrupt, there may be in some varied and obscure location where God is moving with certain Pastors within the organization. That is true with all of these outfits worldwide, but that doesn't mean that the organization is true, that is the deception that we fall prey to.

"This forum seems to have a core group of people that attacks anyone who dares to expose false christianity and its false teachers. You use shame on the posters to do so. I wonder where the motivation to attack people bringing evil to the light is coming from. Sadly for a website so full of godly sermons, that preach the very thing some faithful souls on this site try to do, I find the forum to be tainted with lukewarmness and compromise, and with some, even apostasty."

Amen, or as we say in Detroit - true dat.

David Wilkerson once wrote:

They are troublers who infuriate backslidden religious leaders and corrupt Christians. They are hated as was Jesus when he testified against them that "their deeds were evil" (John 7:7)...

Paul warns the brethren to "mark them which cause divisions... and avoid them" (Romans 16:17). But who were these who "caused offenses contrary to the doctrine taught?" They were none other that a self-centered, backslidden group among them who "served their own belly" (v.18). This proves that division is caused by the proud, arrogant catering to self-interests. Paul said, "By their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting" (v. 18 NAS). Those preachers who are soft on sin, overlooking the evil deeds in God's house and crying unity, are the real divisionists. They are leading many into a false love trap. The true body of Christ has never been nor ever will be divided. Those in holy union with Christ are already united to each other. Sin is the divider!"

Hi brothers and sisters,

We shall all give an account to the Lord for what we do with what has been revealed to us. For those who replied civily while still disagreeing with me, I appreciate that. If I worried about losing respect of people, then I would never have become a Christian. The Truth, spoken in love is powerful. Catholics are not saved. Mormons are not saved. The Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus of the Scriptures. There is nothing radical in what I am saying, what is radical and new is that people would say otherwise. Anyone who would share this falsehood would, at the very least, be giving a sad account of the Gospel. I actually thought I was being mild :)

Perhaps one day I will lose a lot more for this stand than the respect of some folks on SI, so be it. The whole world can chase after a watered down Gospel, but God has His people who know His word and who will stand upon it. The watered down Gospel will not prevail against the Truth. The next time you meet a Catholic or a Mormon and you tell them to go in peace and not share the Truth with them, it will not be me you will answer to. To truly love a Catholic (ex Catholic) is to share the true Gospel with them. I got that from Art Katz only he was speaking about Jewish people................bro Frank

I watched the video three times, and thought that Graham did a good job in the wolf pen...[ CNN liberal interview? ] He stated clearly that most Christians do not accept Mormonism as Christian, and he did not condemn Gingrich because he stated that he was a Christian. He accepted his statement that Newt believed.

He also said that Santorum is displaying moral values that makes him believe he is Christian......while condemning Obama as favoring the Muslim cause, over Christians that are being martyred in Muslim countries.

This all was in response to the Republican Presidential race and in the face of anti-Christ , aggressive journalists that were pro-Obama and did not like it that Graham, a leading Christian leader [ maybe top ] criticized the president for obvious non-Christian policies.

Yes, he may have been overly diplomatic, but in the context of the theme of the interview [ not a preaching situation ] Graham was giving an opinion on candidates.

Watch the video after reading my take, and see if it offends you, as it did not me. Graham tried to be non-judgmental, while still being objective. He did better than I would of. This was an "I GOT CHA!" , SET-UP, ENTRAPMENT type of interview, and Graham held up well, I think.

My original post, for those who may not be bothered to go back and read it..........

"Sadly I watched secular Liberals expose the preposterous twistings and turnings of a man, who seemed not to know what is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. He believes that Rick Santorum is a Christian because of his good morals??? He states that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ??? I wacthed the whole interview and it made me squirm in my seat"

First of all, there is a reason wny Franklin is on there. He was not cornered, he came. And by coming and by being on MSNBC before, and on TV a thousand times, there could be no surprises. I stated that it was a sad presentaton because of two things. One he said, and now I quote verbatim " Of course they believe in Jesus Christ." They, being the Mormons. When asked why he believed that Rick Santorum was a Chriatian he replied and again verbatim " because his values are so clear on moral issues."

This is and was and will continue to be my focus. I have no intention of running down rabbit trails of attacking other people on this thread. So I will ask again, and please stick to the issues if it is possible.

1. Is a man saved by having good moral values or by being a Catholic?
2. Do Mormons believe in the Jesus Christ of the Gospel?

These are simple questions. This is the only questions that I will respond to, this is the issues that I raised. I think it would be interesting to see what people actually believe.......... bro Frank

The problem is, is that the Grahams have soaked themselves into Global Politics from the beginning.
Unless you've truly studied their activities world wide for all the years that Billy started his ministry, you won't understand that they are what would be termed by some as "Globalists".

The world is split in only two groups now, politically - those that are Globalists and those that are not.
Christians are not.

Those that are Globalists are "inter-faith" as well.
There are whole denominations going in that direction.
I used to promote Anne Graham Lotz, despite her father's background, Until she hooked up with the UN General Assembly.

When Billy was "Knighted" by the Queen, that was his reward for all that he had done as the Protestant Pope by mingling in from the beginning with Global Politics.

They CAN'T define Christianity and still be a part of Global Politics.

For those with a Bible - Globalism is the foundation for the antiChrist one world government.

If you want your friends sending their hard earned money to these type ministries - I question your love for your friends. To support any inter-faith ministry in these days when the world is so desperately in need - in So many countries - to hear the true Gospel and yet they can't raise the funds to distribute enough Biblical literature nor missionaries - is a crime.

There are only two type of "Christian ministries" out there -- they are either going with this political emerging merger of Global Political Unity that is soley running on inter-faith dialogue or they're the true Biblical Church of Christ. There's nothing else out there anymore.
These candidates that are being called Christians, are inter-faith Globalists and not Christians at all.

Everyone works very hard for the money that they give out to any ministry and to find out that you've been supporting the ministries that are responsible for the forming of a one world antiChrist-type government and religion is the most shameful thing that could be connected with The Church of GOD.

There are no 'Christians' on the Election Ballots and we need to be looking for His Kingdom and not the kingdom of this world any longer - nor it's inter-faith TV Broadcasts.

If being accused by others on this one forum seems like a big deal right now - remember that taking a stand for Biblical Christianity may one day cost our heads. This is just a mild primer.

Hey brothertom,

I am very surprised that you do not know the ecumenical nature of Franklin Graham. If anyone cares to spend just five minutes in study, you will know that the Graham organisation has been deeply involved in Catholicism and Catholics help at the crusades because it has been agreed not to proselitize Catholics or if any Catholics come forward, they are to be directed back to the Catholic church. Franklin went to the Popes funeral in his fathers place because Billy was ill. I urge all to do there own study and then come back and answer the two questions that I posed................bro Frank

I think JIG made some good points. Thank you for answering these simple questions Maryjane. The very essence of Christianity is what it means to be a Christian. This is the timeless question. Its not a new thing, its an ancient struggle between the religious and and true Chistianity. Keep the two questions in mind brothers and sisters, what saves a man and who is Jesus. One does not have to be a theologian to stand upon the the right answers to these questions........... bro Frank

I just wanted to add that I was not intending to slam Graham over this video by supporting the right of Frank to start this thread and point out error. I am thankful though others brought up the catholic allegiance with his ministry, that is the most disturbing. Also the fact that he mentioned church attendance as a gage for who is a true christian. His unhealthy leanings towards the 'christian right' is also obvious.

-Jim

I confess I was one of the ones who jumped on the judgemental bandwagon and hurled my stones against Franklin. I ask God to forgive me. I ask for the forum to forgive me. I did not listen to the interview so I have no basis for an accurate assessment of what Franklin said.

I think we can look to John 3 and agree that any person who believes in Jesus Christ should experience the new birth. We see from the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus that anyone who puts their faith in Jesus is born from above and has undergone a heart thransplant that will result in that new life. 2 Cor.5:17 testifies to us being new creations in Christ. Eph..2:10 testifies such a change will issue in works and deeds that come out of a heart of love.

Anyone can jvelieve in moral values. Anyone can believe in the rules of the Bible. Anyone can follow the Bibke or any other holy book. Mormons anf Catholics have good moral values. But does that mean they follow the Lamb.

I have been saying repeatedly we are not bound to a written word. But we are bound to him who is the living Word. It is Jesus Christ, the living Word who lives in us. If we confess him. It is the living Word of Jesus that changes us.

Saints any Catholic, Mormon, or cult member can quote the Bible. They may profess toive by its principles. But for you Puritaon students, what was the question? What the Ye of Jesus Christ?

The question to be asked of anyone, politician or entertainer, is do you believe, follow, Jesus Christ.

The WORD did not become a book to be discussed, debated, or pondered. But the WORD became a Person to be followed, loved, and enjoyed.

Bkaine Scogin

Okay, let me backtrack from my previous post.

I wasn't judging anyone I was pointing out some things that I have observed.

I personally appreciate Billy Graham, I have a respect for him. At the same time I feel saddened by certain words that have been said in the past regarding salvation. But that doesn't take away my respect for the man. I used to listen to his broadcast and they ministered to me, so I am not putting him down.

I just don't know anything about his son.

And yes, it's easy to criticize and I hope to God that I wasn't critical in my last post. If I was, please tell me and I'll edit it. If I receive two or more saying that I have, I'll edit it for clarity.

Thanks Saints.

As for Mormons, they do have a faith in Christ that is astounding. I have heard messages that I agreed with but then come to find out it came from a Mormon Pastor. I thought, either I am hearing wrong or this man has some truth. I judged myself as having a hearing problem. What if I judged wrong, maybe he was speaking truth. Oh well.

Brother Frank said:

I am very surprised that you do not know the ecumenical nature of Franklin Graham. If anyone cares to spend just five minutes in study, you will know that the Graham organisation has been deeply involved in Catholicism and Catholics help at the crusades because it has been agreed not to proselitize Catholics or if any Catholics come forward, they are to be directed back to the Catholic church

Even though the organization are told not to evangelize the Catholic Church, that doesn't stop people from ministering to Catholics. In other words, they are going to talk. It won't come from the head office, but it will come from those that are way down the bottom, regular people. These types of treaties are 'signed' in good faith in the hopes that it's members will not proselyte one another. They know they will lose members on each side. But it satisfies those that are in 'office' that their members won't be targeted for evangelistic purposes.

It's all politics.

Brother I know we must be careful in our judging one another. Particularly other servants io Christ. But we have to draw the line on Mormonism. Mormonism is a Satanic cult built upon the Masonic lodge. Living in Arkansas I have found, Albert Pike, a mason, to be revered here. Yet in his writings he professed allegiance to Satan. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were masons before being Mormons. The signs and counter signs of the mormons come from the masons. Some masons even regard the Mormon temple as an unofficial masonic lodge.

We cannot fall into the deception that mormons are believers. They believe in a different gospel. In a different Jesus. They may follow and quote the KJV Bibke but until they have that new birth expereience of John 3 and come out of Mormonism then they are decrived. Mormons, just like moslems, are not believers in Jesus.

I must stand with Brother Frank that the issue is t his gospel. Particularly is summarized by Paul in 1 Cor.15 and amplified by Paul in Romans. Also as applied by Jrsus on John.

Let there be no mistake. The issue must be Jesus Christ and him alone. Wr must ask that question the Puritains would aleays ask. What think ye of Christ. Better yet, where stan ye with Jesus Christ. The issue us not moral values, but ones standing with Jesus Christ.

Blaine Scogin

"We cannot fall into the deception that mormons are believers. They believe in a different gospel. In a different Jesus. They may follow and quote the KJV Bibke but until they have that new birth expereience of John 4 and come out of Mormonism then they are decrived. Mormons, just like moslems, are not believers in Jesus."

Amen to that brother, but in the last days a great deception will come over the church and if possible, even the elect will be deceived. The great whore church will not build itself. The above quote can be directly attributed to Catholicism itself. Catholics are not believers, they follow a different Gospel, they follow a different Jesus, their Jesus is the Jesus of the Eucharist, the one that they sacrifice afresh every weekend. Millions of Catholics in generations gone past have been saved and have come out of that great Satanic deception. I fear for the present generation of Catholics who are being told by "Christian" leaders that they are already saved. My goodness, I tremble to think how this would be explained to a Holy God and before the millions of martyrs killed by this very institution..........bro Frank

Honestly I do not know if Rick Santorium believes in Christ or not. I do not know if he has had a new birth experience. If he or any other political candidate believe in Jesus Christ then give the testimony. The administrator of this website gave his testimony. I have a testimony. All of us joined to Jesus should have a testimony. Either Jesus bas impacted ones life or not. I would ask if one has professed Christ then give the testimony.

So it might be political suicide to stand for Jesus Christ. But before this day ends 300 or more souls will be under the alta because of their testimony for Jesus..

Blaine Scogin

Truewitness writes.........

"I think the fact that Franklin did not mention the fact that Santorum confesses to believe and follow Jesus Christ is because it is already so widely known about him. What he was pointing out was the fact that Santorum walks the walk and not just talks the talk."

The question posed to Franklin was " is Rick Santorum a Christian and why," then the answer was given.
No where does Rick Santorum claim to be a born again Christian, he professes to be Catholic. Which would lead to my original two points about what Franklin says. There seems to be little point in me asking people to do their own research if the basic premise for people is that being a Catholic equates to salvation. Only Maryjane and a couple of others has had the courage to answer this simple question, I find that telling in an age of compromise..........bro Frank

My ONLY concern here is over the ministries that could reach the unreachables with the Pure Gospel and make disciples of them and yet these are the ministries that are hurting for financial support more than any of these big name mixed-cloth ministries.
Forgive me if I may have a different view of things - but looking at the world scene, with so much saber rattling going on between US, Russia, Israel, Syria, Iran, etc. etc. - I've been severely burdened to get the true Gospel out to those unreached nations that Greg has been posting about.

No one forced themselves into Franklin's home with cameras and questioning journalists asking these questions. NO - he and his family have not been "Esters" in all of their history but more eccumenical than anything and far to in with Global politics and seen with Presidents and other leaders around the world that will never be influenced by the true Gospel nor changing their mind by any true-to-the-true Gospel ministers out there.

I don't know how much more time that we have to get The WORD out to the lost world and I know that every penny given to any ministry counts now more than ever before and we need to know that we're getting the most from those pennies. It's not enough to merely 'feed' people or bring 'gifts' - they need The WORD.

Again, those missionary type ministries that are willing to risk their lives and all, are hurting for financial support while others are using multiple millions to supply what is not Pure.
I've never been this burdened in this direction as much as I've been this particular year.
Take it for what it's worth - but I had a visual of two fields of sheep. The one field was filled with fat, clean, constantly eating sheep but in the other field across the fence was filled with dirty, disease ridden, Starving and dropping down dead sheep that looked through the fence at the sheep that were being very well fed and those that could were crying out to be on that other side.
I knew what that visual represented. US that have sermons and bibles and literature galore and are constantly feeding OURSELVES while just across the ocean are those crying out to have just a page of a Bible or that are dying without having heard the true Gospel.
We are so well fed and haven't given a thought to send the supplies over to them ---- just some big named ministries giving out What? Really, What?

We sit and write and read and read and write while others are begging for just one Word of Life. Dear GOD open our eyes, please, dear LORD. Open our eyes to the field of the starving to hear and need the unadulterated Truth of Christ.
Open our pocket books to them and them alone - WE have been fed Enough!

There are only two type of "Christian ministries" out there -- they are either going with this political emerging merger of Global Political Unity that is solely running on inter-faith dialogue or they're the true Biblical Church of Christ. There's nothing else out there anymore.
These candidates that are being called Christians, are inter-faith Globalists and not Christians at all."
.................JesusIsGod.

I am in agreement with you JIG. I know that the Billy Graham Crusades organization, with Billy at the helm, forced converts that were supposedly saved, that were former Catholics back to the RCC as a policy.[ as some others that currently do the same..]

He also confessed compromise to holy doctrines that would support your statement about his globalist views, embracing wicked Ecumenicism. [ a fancy word that means all roads and religions lead to the same God. ] This is highly documented, and also right here on SI down under.

I do not want to hijack this thread, which is really about Franklin Graham, and a snippet of political commentary, which I think was innocuous, and skillfully non-committal. I really liked your perspective and stand, though, JIG, and think it needs to be addressed, exactly liked you warned.

"Everyone works very hard for the money that they give out to any ministry and to find out that you've been supporting the ministries that are responsible for the forming of a one world antiChrist-type government and religion is the most shameful thing that could be connected with The Church of GOD."

I see the Great Falling Away gestated in the halls of these para-church movements ....and there are many. Could you begin a Thread that identified them, and WHY they are part of the Globalist union, and anti-Christ?

Great Post!...[ 2-21 2012...down under a ways...]

Thanks, Tom

"I do not want to hijack this thread, which is really about Franklin Graham"

This thread is not about Franklin Graham, its about the definition of what it means to be saved and the two questions that I have been asking from the OP. Some have made it about Franklin, its not about Franklin, its about what he says in regards to Catholicism and the Jesus that they and Mormons worship which is not the biblical Jesus. Franklin is just one voice in a massive shift towards a one world church. We already have "Chrislam," and we have dispensationalists saying that Jewish people do not have to be saved. We have guys like Glen Beck who now claims he is a born again Mormon and has started a group called "We are all Catholics now,' and was having meetings with the Cardinals in the Vatican just three days ago.

If people believe that Catholics are Christians and that Momons worship the same Jesus as we do, then state it boldly and we can agree to disagree. Calling me names or something is not going to help anyone, not that I mind, you will notice that I refuse to respond to name calling :)May the Truth of the Gospel continue to shine and may I not become someone's enemy for speaking the truth.......bro Frank

"This thread is not about Franklin Graham, its about the definition of what it means to be saved and the two questions that I have been asking from the OP. Some have made it about Franklin, its not about Franklin, its about what he says in regards to Catholicism and the Jesus that they and Mormons worship which is not the biblical Jesus."...Appolus

Yet, in your original title, you base your case upon him. It is about him...and the heinous statement about Catholicism was that he believed that Santorum, the political candidate, was a Christian, because he thought his moral views held up to the religious criteria of what a Christian was.

This may be quite liberal, but maybe he was expressing favor of Santorum's moral values...but certainly not about the "Jesus that they worship." Gingrich confesses that he is a Christian, and a recent convert to Roman Catholicism. So, Grahams answer to the talking heads was, "Yes, I believe that Newt is a Christian, because he says he is."

Is that so evil? He didn't endorse Catholic doctrine...but answered diplomatically...because it really can't be proved, can it?

"Franklin Graham's sad presentation of the "Gospel"

...[ original post ]..I think that might qualify about being about him? ya Think?

And when confronted about Mormonism, rather than alienate the Mormons with a fire and brimstone remark, his quote was...'Most Christians do not accept Mormonism as Christian".

That's a far cry from what you derived out of the video..

"Its not about Franklin, its about what he says in regards to Catholicism and the Jesus that they and Mormons worship which is not the biblical Jesus"

He said no such thing.

Having said that, I know that in spirit I agree with you. But remember, that on a National stage like that, with limited time to explain, and that the interviewers were trying to trap him..I think he got low, and flew under the radar so to speak.

I'm not really sure about Franklin...as to where his stand is on the Ecumenical movement....you may be right...but this video did in no way prove that he is, or that he endorses it.

I think it would be very interesting to start a thread exploring the facts about these para-church International ministries...I think we would be shocked at how many of them do not serve Christ at all, and have bent the knee to the One-World Religion.

I know that it would be controversial, and emotional, as the golden calves fell...but beneficial to all. The Pure doctrine of the Pauline local church, derived from the New Testament...in it's purity...is the only thing that will conform us to His image in the end...and keep us on the strait and narrow.

There ARE NO National leaders that have it all.

Wow.. watched the video and it was very disappointing.

Someone on this thread stated that the interviews were just trying to "get" Franklin Graham. So what? He should just tell it like it is. He was waffling all over the place. Franklin wouldn't say that Obama is a Christian. He was trying to dodge that question big time. It sounded like he didn't think Obama was a Christian but he was afraid to say so. But then he believes Santorum is a Christian because he has certain moral values?

Then the interviewer asked him what "he" thought about Romney. Franklin said "most Christians" would not recognize Mormonism as part of the Christian faith. However, the interviews weren't asking him what "most Christians" thought, they were asking him what "he" thought. He was certainly dodging the question and seemed to be leaving himself an out by saying "most Christians".

Honestly, he sounded like a politician trying to dodge the questions and give answers without really giving answers. It'd be nice to simply see Christians just get up and give bold true statements about the truth and not care what other people think about them, or care about how they are perceived.

The world is gonna mock you whether you are a flip flopper or if you are bold for the truth. Might as well be bold for the truth and honor Jesus.

It would have been interesting to see someone like Ian Paisley answer those questions!

HI Solomon,

Well, that was refreshingly different. I appreciate your measured response :) And because your response was measured and on the subject at hand, we discover we agree on much. You said..........

"MY ANSWER - Of course not. But I must hasten to add that neither is a person saved by having good morals and being a protestant, a baptist, an anabaptist, a pentecostal,or mentally agreeing with orthodoxy in all areas, etc., etc., etc."

On this we agree 100%. Now on your points about some people who are genuinly born again but do not believe in the core doctrines of the Catholic church but go there anyway for reasons of, say, evangelism or whatever, I have two responses to that. 1. If you do not believe in the core doctrines, the dogma of the Catholic church, your not a Catholic by name or by practice. To reject the Eucharist as the actual Body and the wine as the actual blood of Jesus is an anathema within the Catholic church and a moratl sin. It was typically the question that got most of the martyrs killed for centuries. They would have nice debates and then the question that would always result in their condemnation and death was in regard to the Eucharist.
If a Mormon is not a Mormon and goes to the Mormon church he is still not a Mormon. And secondly, if they were there trying to share the Gospel with actual Catholics who do follow the doctrines of the Catholic church, then they would be doing something that the Graham organisations and others have agreed not to do.

Sscot, you made me laugh. I can hear Ian Paisley now. He would probably blow the roof off as would almost 100% of the preachers represented here on SI.

Brothertom, my only advice is to do a little research on the subject at hand if you do not know where these men stand on the subject of Ecumenicalism. I am surprised that you do not know about the polices of the men in question in regard to the Catholic church. It will shock you.........bro Frank

deleted for double post

Sean said "It would have been interesting to see someone like Ian Paisley answer those questions!".

The same people on this thread who cry "judge not" and defend being united to the catholic whore of babylon would be up in arms over Pasileys comments!

-Jim

It is so sad that there are active members of SI that defend the RCC and Mornominism. Pretty soon the comments will be - well I know a lot of muslims that really love Jesus, they just stay in islam because it is their family tradition.

-Jim

"Brothertom, my only advice is to do a little research on the subject at hand if you do not know where these men stand on the subject of Ecumenicalism. I am surprised that you do not know about the polices of the men in question in regard to the Catholic church. It will shock you".........bro Frank

Frank: Again....This thread was never about the policies of anyone, or the subject of Ecumentalim. It was about what Franklin Graham stated about Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich....now...you morph it into politics.[ policies ].

The only research I needed to do was watch the video you posted....and it did not indict Graham as a neo-ecumentalist. I may have said something similar, if I had the poise under that pressure.

Graham was not preaching the gospel, he was just commenting on candidates and did pretty well. Gingrich says he is a Christian...OK...Romney: "most Christians do not accept Mormonism as Christian"...OK....Santorum is Christian because of his moral stand?

....Well? I like Santorum's moral stand, and it is derived from Biblical morality....but is he saved? probably not, but do I know for sure?...So, I see Graham's response as giving him the benefit of the doubt....and quite diplomatic...but heretical? No.

So, why did you post that video, and title, if you wanted to attack antiChrist One-World-One-God Ecumenical heresies, and protestant leaders who have succumbed to it's evil seductions?

As I said, start another thread. I for one, am interested, and produce facts about these para-church megalithic moves that bare anti-Christ Unitarian doctrine.

" I may have said something similar, if I had the poise under that pressure."

And on that we can agree to disagree. I just pray that some fearless men of God, will be given the chance to speak to secular liberals and millions of people. If one cannot clearly articulate the Truth then perhaps they are not called to share the Gospel on such a medium.

Just for clarification, I posted what I posted because that is what I saw. I would have asked the same questions of any man who waffled, the problem is I am not sure it was waffling. If Franklin believes, and it just so happened to be Franklin( its unlikely that I am going to see you on the national news shows brothertom) that the Mormons believe in the same Jesus we do or, when asked directly why he thought Santorim was a Christian and he answers " because of his morals," then I am going to question that. It should not matter that he is a " big name" in Christian circles, all that should matter is what is spoken. I did not start this thread to attack Franklin or seek out heresy. I stated that I was sad at the presentation and I asked two questions about what it means to be saved and who is Jesus. Are we so compromised in these days that these questions can no longer be asked or a man representing Christianity can go on a show and say anything and not be questioned?

Anyway brothertom, if I heard you or Greg Gordon or my best friend say these things, I would absolutly question it. .............. bro Frank

Brethren, Brethren, let us all ecumenically love one another holding hands and breaking bread.

there are active members of SI that defend the RCC and Mornominism.

Roadsign, I think they meaneth me.

In all actuality I do not.

However, even though their salvation messages are screwed up, they do a lot of good in the community and have worldwide programs and God will bless that. The principle of giving is not subjected to us Christians, it's for everyone, and God will bless His word for with God there is no respect of persons.

In these religions there is always this "other" message that they have to put forth. They ride on the coattail of Christ for the sole purpose of luring in people so they can teach their 'other' doctrines. If it's not Mary, it's the book of Mormon. On T.V they talk grace but when they get you hooked they vomit their crap on you. It's a whole den of iniquity. I hate religion!

"Frank, it is obvious that you have an agenda with this thread you have started but you will not admit that the way you started this thread is flawed."

Rbanks, why would I admit to something that is not true? People can go back and read the three sentences that I wrote. They can also read where I quote Franklin verbatim. And what he said is wrong. If that is my " agenda" then I am guilty as charged. I am not sure why you are pitting one brother against another?

"But I must say I appreciate your stand altogether and also concerning this thread."

What is Brothertoms stand Rbanks? That he saw nothing wrong with the video? I quoted what Franklin said and then asked if people agreed with whether the Mormons worship the same Jesus as we do, as stated by Franklin? Do you agree with the Franklin quote from the video I posted? I then stated that Franklin said, when asked, that he believed Santorum, a professing Roman Catholic, not a man who has ever claimed to be born again, was a Christian because of his good morals. I asked if anyone agreed with that statement. A few people answered. And Solomon answered. What do you say brother. Is a man saved by his good morals? If not, then you agree with my assesment that Franklin was wrong. Everything else is just wood for a fire brother. These two questions started my thread and that is what I am sticking to and I do not apologise for asking these questions..........bro Frank

I just received a letter from a good brother who shall remain nameless who reminded me that I usually do not stay on threads that have become "fruitless." It was a good admonition and I will take that as from the Lord. I know that everything has been said that can be said at least for me in the asking of the questions. But I will post no more on this thread. May the Lord bless every poster and may the Truth of the Gospel and the light of the Lord Jesus lead our way.................bro Frank

(edit) I will address any unresolved issues by anyone if they care to e-mail me.......... appolus@aol.com

New issue for you Appolus, and an opportunity for you to 'ante up' publicly as it were.

Do you believe that someone who denies the Eternal Sonship of Christ worships the Jesus Christ presented in the Bible? Would you consider that person a 'brother' or 'sister'? Or do you waffle on that?

OJ

SScott wrote: "" It'd be nice to simply see Christians just get up and give bold true statements about the truth and not care what other people think about them, or care about how they are perceived.

The world is gonna mock you whether you are a flip flopper or if you are bold for the truth. Might as well be bold for the truth and honor Jesus. ""

Seems that should be our Scriptural agenda with the public.

And all the more so if we've made our name a public name and accept an invitation to answer questions before that public, as a representative of Jesus the only Christ.

I can't see anyone being accused of having a bad agenda if they agree whole-heartedly with this quote above and seeing the snare in the fear of men.

"Put not your trust in Princes."

This isn't about Franklin. We're praying for the whole Graham family and have been for many years ... but I would just ask that we do a Search titled, "Santorum - Knights of Malta".

A scribd copy of a magizine may be a first choice.

Jesus did say, watch that you not be deceived, for many shall come saying I Am.

Thank you Brother Frank for posting this, it gave me spiritual indigestion beyond belief.

There will be such Judgement visited upon this land, for ALL the sin issues, including such a scion of caesar, waffling, equivocating, giving covering to the roman institution, the church of joe smith....cant even be bold and brave, squirming in his chair, just made me sick.

all these politicians USE the Provisions of God as a TOOL for their craven vile ambitions, their idolatry, lust for acclaim, and power.

Someday......(and this is something i weep and cry over in MY life, that i dont hear)....Someday, they will hear the Words, "I never knew you".

God is Watching, He is Brooding.

you wrote:

Sscot, you made me laugh. I can hear Ian Paisley now. He would probably blow the roof off as would almost 100% of the preachers represented here on SI.

you and i have talked about Ian before, when i first apprehended Messiah Jesus, as a Jew, i never knew the theological differences between the roman institution and protestantism, i just thought they were different variants of Gentiles, same with mormons. i also knew that at the behest and leadership of rome, that is its "church", including the two "orthodox" variants, "eastern" and "russian", more Jews were killed "in the Name of Jesus", by these three institutions than hitler EVER DREAMED of, THAT i knew....and some folk wonder why its so hard to evangelize to Jews, or that shudder just at hearing that beautiful Name.

The first sermon i heard of Ian's was "Five Steps to Revival"....it lit me up, then progressively as God revealed His Son TO me and IN me, i became aware of the Church, the Body of Christ, and the error of rome, the error of joe smith.

and Ian, via early (1965-1969) sermons spoke to me about rome. but i heard one saint, a public pastor, maybe Irish, say that Ian at one time was so annointed, preached with such unction, that could have been the next "John Wesley", EXCEPT that he went into politics...i agree.

but in the vein, of Ian laying it down, i post up his lightening bolt of a message "Why True Protestants Reject the Pope"(3/1/1965)....i pray any saint wishing to ascertain the impact of what Frank Graham said, listen to this

http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=6846

I want to ask a question to begin with. Could we see Jesus doing an interview on CNN, say on the abilities of Herod as governor? Or...Paul the Apostle bantering about the Roman top ten and their despotic traits?..or debating who's next in line to take their place?

Why did Franklin Graham accept this assignment to begin with? He had to know exactly what the questions would be. He was prepared for everything they threw at him. He's not a moron. What could he expect as a leading Evangelical when asked to comment on the Republican candidates? Their affiliation to outdoor sports? "Now, that Romney...he can ski!"..Of course not.

In saying that Graham "did a good job", I am not endorsing him. All he did, was show his true colors, as one proposing to serve the Lord, while serving the world. Obviously he is compromised away from a holy gospel message, and his discernment and loyalties are affected in clear ambiguous terms.

He neither condemned, nor parsed the ham, but ambiguously graced all comers in a positive light, with semi-Christian kudos. He dodged every direct dart with polite and general bourgeois euphemism's, and aimed his responses to be sweet and elevating to all.

Now the guy signed on...and was probably paid...to comment on the candidates. He is a International Evangelical Icon of what a Christian is supposed to be, and act like..and he plays that part...to the T. He IS the Protestant status...the bond of "peacemaker" to the world, as he took his father's place...Billy Graham.

All I am saying, is that in that role, he did not defame the name of Christ, and he handled the sparring well. I do not endorse him...but he did not make a fool of himself.

Perhaps he should of said of Romney, right there on National TV.."Why that satanic swine, and his dirty Mormon ideas...TO HELL! yes to HELL he goes, and all who vote for him!"....and to Gingrich and Santorum..." They're Nasty Babylonian WHORES! Snake people! Hellion Caaathhhooolllicccs!"..[ eyes bulging ]...

Think he would be invited back for followup? That's my point. He was ambassadorial...milk toast? yea, I guess. He was non-committal and positive to all; not exactly like John the Baptist...and not exactly like Rasputin...but Christian enough to pass.

I may have gone off the deep end and cursed them all!.....[ it may have been live..]...frothing at the mouth, but I am not used to that kind of thing...but neither am I the worlds most famous evangelical...so..I say in that, he did a good job.

It was once said; "Politics is the art of compromise."

I might add, so is the business of respectfully commenting on them.

"Perhaps he should of said of Romney, right there on National TV.."Why that satanic swine, and his dirty Mormon ideas...TO HELL! yes to HELL he goes, and all who vote for him!"....and to Gingrich and Santorum..." They're Nasty Babylonian WHORES! Snake people! Hellion Caaathhhooolllicccs!"..[ eyes bulging ]...

Think he would be invited back for followup? That's my point. He was ambassadorial...milk toast? yea, I guess. He was non-committal and positive to all; not exactly like John the Baptist...and not exactly like Rasputin...but Christian enough to pass."