And this is love....

The gospel is God's own righteousness. In it is revealed the righteousness of God or righteousness from God. It is not a means which we can use to become righteous in ourselves, but it gives us righteousness from God by faith and unto faith. In this way the law is fulfilled. The gospel, therefore, does not confront us with the law, but with Christ. He who believes the gospel is righteous before God for time and eternity. He has not first to win righteousness, for he is fully righteous. He does not have to prove that he is fulfilling the law, for God's righteousness needs no proofs. The law has no demands to make on such a man; he is not living within its sphere and is not occupied with its "Thou shalts" and its "Thou shalt nots", but is filled with the love of God in Christ Jesus.

-excerpted from Poul Madsen's commentary on Romans 7

Today, let’s remember the forth commandment and keep it holy.

Through God’s tumultuous dealings in my own life, I have come to understand what is required here: To obey the fourth commandment is to accept Christ’s Sabbath rest through salvation. It’s a Sabbath rest in which I live continuously. If I seek God’s vindication through my own methods of self-absolution I am guilty of breaking the Sabbath. If I carry guilt and condemnation when God has forgiven me, I am working on the Sabbath – carrying a load on the day of rest. Apart from resting in him, my use of God’s name over my life is merely in vain – and I fail to love him. My self-efforts become my idol. And I designate myself as my own god - master of my own redemption. This is a serious affront to Christ’s sacrifice; but it is also damaging to my faith and freedom in Christ. It is a violation of the great commandment of love towards myself. Living by law instead of Spirit is, really, no less than self- abuse. It harms me spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically. It also keeps me from truly loving others with Christ’s mercy. You see, it is really a violation of ALL the commandments.

Paul writes: “Live by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature”.

This truly is the way to keep from sin! Guilt is never the way to keep from sin, though the church has had a tendency to exploit guilt – to keep the masses in control and forever needing the church to absolve the guilt. Unrelenting guilt produces endless temptations to seek law of some kind – some way to take away the nagging sense of condemnation. This was formerly a sad realty in my life – till it capsized me. Now I can appreciate why it doesn’t work; but instead, living by the Spirit can keep me desiring what the Spirit desires.

Thank you (!) Ephah for drawing attention to the fourth commandment. Yes, indeed! It is still operational. But when it is interpreted as “letter”, this commandment can be the most tyrannical rule in existence. It can be a grueling, burdensome Sabbath load. Sundays can be the worst day for work and heavy guilt loads. Trust me, I’ve been there - way back in my Reformed Church days. …

No turning back to the old way!

Diane

My Dear bro.theEphah,

I can tell you have a hard time with this,but please take what I am
about to say,prayerfully.
The Lord commands us through the / His Spirit now,since He rose from the dead,and has now sent back the Holy Spirit,to live inside of us.He still
commands,...leads us in the WAY that He wants us to follow.....In otherwords,...the Law was wrote up ,and one's were to read it ,and to obey.

But NOW,..Our Presious Jesus,came ,and as we all know,...He lived a
complete death ,to self life,and blead a terible death,to make and to bring forth this NEW AND LIVING WAY,
to come and live in us ,and guide us by His Presious Spirit.
Are you,my brother,going to REJECT this NEW AND LIVING WAY,..
that He sacrificed so for us ?

Surely, I pray you are not !
elizabeth

Ephah, I admit, your response to my testimony threw me. Perhaps I was overly cryptic. Eleven year ago I produced a fuller testimony and theological reflection and uploaded it. Here you'll see how central the fourth commandment was to me, and then you can decide if this sounds like "doing my own thing".

I realize this is old and could stand rewriting - but I am no longer able to access this site. Anyway, the first two "chapters" here may help you understand my thinking - and what perhaps indeed might need reconsideration. I welcome your thoughts.

Entering the Place of Rest:
http://www.quiteexcellent.com/thewayback.net/articles/ENTERING/title.htm

Blessings,
Diane

"Today, let us remember the fourth commandment and Keep it Holy". !!!not!!!

Today let us remember the fourth commandment and keep Him Holy, for He is our Sabbath rest, continually and forever. "Do this in remembrance of Me". The Body and Blood of the Lord of the Sabbath, we must enter His Rest.
Heb 4:. Our rest is not in the flesh anymore but in the Spirit and in Christ by He that is born again in us, which gives the flesh strength and rest. For God swore in His wrath that we cannot enter His rest by our own keeping of the Old Testament Law. "A new commandment I give you" Love which is fulfillment of the whole Law, that Love is Christ, "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

In Christ who is my Sabbath Rest: Phillip

The Lord is no longer in His temple in Jerusalem, so no one can keep the Sabbath as God intended for worship and forgivness of sin by blood sacrifice.

We are His temple and He is in us, this is keeping the Sabbath, "do this in remembrance of Me". Going to the assembling of ourselves as the time grows near is a good thing and we are told not forsake this assembling. But, The Church assembly is not where we keep the Sabbath, we keep the Sabbeth in His temple, daily. We are His temple and that is where He will meet us, as on the seventh day, but now by the Christ in His temple, us, our Sabbath is 24-7. I no longer am in the outer court in the temple, for we are commanded to come boldly to the throne of Grace, that is where the Lord of the Sabbath is and will always be, by His Grace and mercy, "Christ in you the hope of Glory", the fulfillment of the Word of God which also includes the Sabbath now in us. There is a difference in the Law of the Sabbath and fulfillment of the Sabbath in you.

"You must be born again to see the things of the Kingdom of God". Which by His rebirth in us we now see Him as our Sabbath.

In Christ: Phillip

Ephah,
How do you interpret these writings of Paul?

Galatians 3:15-21

\t15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
\t16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
\t17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
\t18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

I understand this to say that the Law does not replace the promise given to Abraham, is different from the promise given to Abraham (different in purpose), and is less powerful than and subordinate to the promise given to Abraham.

19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
\t20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
\t21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

The Law is only contrary to the promise if it too can make someone righteous. But righteousness, while demanded by the Law, is not a promise of the Law. If the Law can do that then the promise is of no use.

\t24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
\t25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Christ did say that if we loved Him we would keep His commands. But He also said that He was a ‘greater than Moses’. The commands that Christ Himself gave; love one another are higher than the Law of Commandments given by Moses. Christ too was a Law Giver.

How do you interpret this passage from Galatians?

Galatians 4:8,9

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?

These were Gentiles who had become Christians. They were being taught that they had to keep the Law of Moses in order to be Christians. The way I understand these verses, Paul is saying a Gentile who leaves idolatry to become a Christian is turning to something as weak as the idolatry he left if he begins to keep the Law as though it were necessary for his salvation. Paul calls the Law “weak and worthless" for making someone righteous.

How can we claim to love him while rejecting his commandment, HOW!

It’s an impossibility, isn’t it! The challenge (which seems to reflect your struggle Ephah) is in judging what is deemed “obedience”. Let’s admit, there are numerous biblical laws you can follow without being obedient to God at all. You can do it in your own powers, and you can do it for faulty reasons – such as the older brother in the parable. And here I’m not merely speaking theoretically, I’m speaking from a personal awareness.

Praise God for Galatians – such as 5:16-18 which helps set this issue straight! But even here, I realize one may imagine they are following the Spirit when they are following their own “spirit”. But conversely, one might judge another as “doing their own thing” when they are truthfully following the Spirit (many great saints have been accused of that).

In a sense we merely work ourselves into a futile frenzy when we try to dissect another person’s motives or their degree of obedience – even our own. After all, even if you and I are doing okay, God may very well be calling us to a costlier obedience. And God doesn’t give you or me that call for another person. He gives that person the call directly – by his Spirit. And if one does not have the Spirit because they have not been born from above – then what good is it to fill the void by merely trying to follow manageable commandments (as one understands them)? Now that doesn't make sense, does it!?

Diane

Dear Bro.theEphah,

You ask,' what is His Spirit ?'...
Please except my humble answer:

It is His Holy Spirit,..It is the Spirit of God,...Who is Spirit / WORD.
It is like a Fountain of LIVING / ALIVE WATER,..flowing up in us,..
Guilding us in His WAY,..in which He wants us to respond,..walk,..speak,..
and He is in us,....He is our HELP,..He brings His WORDS right up,...
showing us the WAY,...which is His WAY,..which is through His TRUTH,...
that we can have LIFE.

Remember,how Jesus, and the others walked through the corn,..
they picked the corn and did eat, ?How others watched Him,trying
To find things that He was not doing, according to the law,...and they did,..the least little thing that one did,on the Sabath,..and it was a sin...
How He forgave the woman for her sin of adultery, ?...
Our Prescious Lord, is not going to lead us to do anything against God.

I was just thinking about,..when Jesus walked the earth,..He said,..
He,..Himself,..only did,..or spoke the Words,that the Father,(who is SPIRIT / WORD ) gave Him,..isn't He our example,..didn't He say,'follow me ?'
When we obey Jesus, we obey God,for it is His Spirit. He said,'I and my Father are ONE.' It is the same Spirit that is with-in us,..that led Jesus,.
That is to lead us. The Living Spirit.

Please, my Bro.,please except this,that I am saying trying to be helpful,
and all that I have been taught,..,is His,..it is not mine.

The Holy Spirit came to do a work in us, ..it came for a purpose,...it is,...as you know, of Great value,...and please let us not be acused of making it void,..and of no efect.

My dearly beloved Bro.,I would love to talk to you more, about the Sabath..
etc.,..but for now this has got quite long.
elizabeth

The incorruptable Seed of the Father the Spirit of Christ is birthed in us, He is our new born again life. The Holy Spirit is the revealer of that life birthed in us. Now we have a Father who makes His abode with us in the Son and in us and the Holy Spirit does not even speak of Himself, but only the theings Christ has said and wants to reveal of Himself to us. Even things we cannot understand, we come to understanding.

In Christ: Phillip

There are two general uses to the word, Law:

1) a principle
2) a command

Law can refer to a generalization based on a recurring fact or event – like the law of thermodynamics. God set natural laws in motion. But God also set in motion laws that apply to ourselves spiritually – and determine our relationship with him and one another. Here’s an example:

“The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through LOVE.” Gal. 5:6 This law is based on Christ’s death and resurrection. It determines how we follow the commands – like this:

“You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in LOVE. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “LOVE your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Here’s another law of God - BOTH as a command and as a law of nature (the spiritual nature, that is):

“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal. 5:16

The following verse is law too. It’s a predictable principle- the certain outcome of obedience to the one grand, glorious law which is repeated over and over in scripture, and in all kinds of ways – including the fourth commandments (which Hebrews lifts out of the shadows: Entering God’s rest).

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Gal. 5:22

There you have it! If these nine signs of obedience (life in the Spirit) are not present, then it will do no good to apply the letter of the law to improve people. It’s better to go back to the foundational laws – that is the principles set in motion through Christ’s death and resurrection:

“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”

And the outcome is LOVE: love for God, others, and ourselves – the grand commandment of God.

and this is love .... evidenced in our human relationships.

Praise God for his mighty and glorious precepts!

Diane

Hello Ephah,

Undoubtedly we are both passionate about the same subject, but somehow we are walking past each other. You raised this subject for a purpose, yet, I am not able to see what you are seeing. For that reason, I think it is best that I bow out of this thread.

I trust the Spirit to reveal any blindness I may be beset by - as is true for any of us.

God bless you as you wrestle through this theme of law and love.

Diane

The Word dabar in the old testament is any word spoken by God, not specifically the Law, but including the Law. Matt 4:4 & Rom 10:17

The word dabar (Hebrew), spoken in the New Testament, Logos (Word) specifically speaks to Jesus Christ the Word of God, the Logos of God. John 1:1 He is the Word, Jesus Christ in the flesh Himself the incarnate God-Man, in the flesh of created man by His Spirit that dwells in us.

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Dabar.html

"If you don't have the Spirit of Christ in you, you are none of His".

The Holy Spirit is a He, which signifies a Person, specifically the third person of the God Head.

Good try Ephah.

In Christ by the Spirit of Christ born again in me, and the Holy Spirit being the answered prayer of Jesus Christ to the Father to send Him to give revelation of Who this fulfillment of the Word of God is, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". By His Spirit of Father, Son and Holy Spirit;

Phillip