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Does Theology Matter? Most Christians Today Say No...

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sermonindex

I know... posting this article means it wont get read. Too long, and most dont care about the topic. But more and more there are people coming to this forum who mock believers who take seriously the study if Theology and sound doctrine.

I challenge those people (and anyone else) to read this article carefully... and then let's discuss.

Krispy

Written by RC Sproul

WHY STUDY THEOLOGY?

Does theology really matter? That question is important in the present evangelical community because the systematic teaching of the Word of God is not present in many churches. Theology is said not to be connected with real life and, therefore, it is disparaged. David Wells, in his insightful book No Place For Truth addresses the lack of theology in the life of the Church: "The disappearance of theology from the life of the Church, and the orchestration of that disappearance by some of its leaders, is hard to miss today but, oddly enough, not easy to prove. It is hard to miss in the evangelical world - in the vacuous worship that is so prevalent, for example, in the shift from God to the self as the central focus of faith, in the psychologized preaching that follows this shift, in the erosion of its conviction, in its strident pragmatism, in its inability to think incisively about the culture, in its reveling in the irrational. And it would have made few of these capitulations to modernity had not is capacity for truth diminished. It is not hard to see these things; avoiding them is what is difficult. . . . The stakes are high: the anti-theological mood that now grips the evangelical world is changing its internal configuration, its effectiveness, and its relation to the past. It is severing the link to historical, Protestant orthodoxy. It is emancipating contemporary evangelicals to form casual alliances at will with a multitude of substitutes for this orthodoxy. And the reason for this is that what that orthodoxy had and what contemporary evangelicalism so often lacks is a theology at its center that defines the faith and prescribes the sorts of intellectual and practical relations is should establish in the world" (No Place For Truth, p. 95, 96). Dr. D. James Kennedy concurs with Wells and writes: "Ours is an era of malnourished church members who have been spoon-fed tapioca and cheesecake religion until their spiritual stomachs are bloated and their hearts are clogged with the cholesterol of meaningless 'I wanna be me' self-fulfillment" (How Do I Live For God? p. 9).

REASONS WHY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO STUDY THEOLOGY

On numerous occasions, I've heard Christians attack the study of theology. They say, "I just want to know God and live a Christian life. I don't need to carefully understand what the Bible says about God or Christ or the plan of salvation." I've often wondered how they think they can know God or have a relationship with God when they don't want to know his self-revelation in Scripture.

There are a myriad of reasons why many people react against the idea of studying theology. Let's examine some of the more common arguments that are given against theology and a systematic study of the Scriptures.

"I don't want to study theology because theologians simply attack the Bible."

Sometimes people equate the term "theology" with liberal theology that denies the central truths of Christianity. They, therefore, have an adverse reaction to the word "theology."

It is true that liberal theology attacks the Bible at almost every point. Besides attacking the truths of Scripture, liberal theology has redefined almost every gospel truth. For example, if Peter had been a modern, liberal theologian when Jesus asked, "Who do men say that I am?" the following response could have occurred: Jesus asked, "Who do men say that I am?" The disciples replied, "Some say Elijah, others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." Jesus said, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter, the modern liberal theologian answered and said, "You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of being of the faith community, the kerygma manifested in conflict, the self-realization of personhood, and the motivational encounter for the socialization and humanization of mankind." Jesus replied, "I'm what?" And then he strictly charged his disciples to tell no one who he was. Many people react against the idea of theology because that is their concept of theology.

True Christian theology is not some liberal attack on Scripture or an intellectual exercise that is divorced from practical Christian living. The word, "theology" is derived from the Greek word for God, theos. Therefore, theology is simply the study of God and what he has revealed in his Word. Christians are commanded in Scripture to be engaged in the study of what God has revealed.

"I don't want to study theology because it's not practical."

Often people think of theology as some dry, dusty, academic exercise which has little to do with practical Christian living. The Puritan writer William Ames rightly observed that theology is supremely practical for the Christian life because it is that which enables us to live well unto God (The Marrow of Theology).

Theology is not separated from practical Christian living. For example, if a person wants to know Jesus, he must learn about him from the Scriptures. For a person to engage in true worship of God, he must know about the God he is worshipping from God's self-revelation in the Scriptures. God did not send us feelings from heaven; he gave us oracles, commandments, and propositional statements about himself and his plan of salvation. For a person to have a strong faith and trust in God, to engage in worship that is honoring and acceptable to God, to pray properly, or to pursue any spiritual activity, he must have an understanding of what God has said in his Word. In the Scriptures, God has spoken concerning himself and his nature, he has instructed us on how he is to be properly worshipped, and he has revealed his plan of salvation through Christ. Without the revelation of God's Word, there can be no true worship of God or a relationship with God. Without knowing who God is and how we can have a relationship with him from Scripture, all so-called worship, prayer, or religious activity is idolatry because it is supported only by man's speculations about God, not by God's self-revelation in the Bible. Jonathan Edwards wrote, "Holy affections are not heat without light, but ever more arise from some information in understanding, some spiritual instruction that the mind receives, some light or actual knowledge.

The child of God is graciously affected, because he sees and understands something more of divine things than he did before, more of God or Christ, and of the glorious things exhibited in the gospel. He has a clearer and better view than he had before, when he was not affected; either he receives some new understanding of divine things, or has his former knowledge renewed after the view was decayed." Edwards then cites: 1 John 5:7; Phil 1:9; Rom. 10:2; Col. 3:10; Psa. 43:3,4; John 6:45. He continues, "Knowledge is the key that first opens the hard heart, enlarges the affections, and opens the way for men into the kingdom of heaven; Luke 10:52: 'Ye have taken away the key of knowledge.'" (Religious Affections, in The Collected Writings of Jonathan Edwards, Vol. 1, p. 281, 282).

A "Peanuts" cartoon pictured Lucy and Linus looking out the window at a steady downpour of rain. "Boy," said Lucy, "look at it rain. What if it floods the whole world?" "It will never do that," Linus replied confidently. "In the ninth chapter of Genesis, God promised Noah that would never happen again, and the sign of the promise is the rainbow." "You've taken a great load off my mind," said Lucy with a relieved smile. "Sound theology," pontificated Linus, "has a way of doing that!" Linus is right; the systematic study of the great truth of Scripture put iron in the Christian's backbone when it comes to facing daily trials and struggles.

"Theology and doctrine are not important; I just want to know Jesus."

How can a person know Jesus, if they do not know who he is or what he has done in God's plan of salvation? The only way a person can know Jesus is through a systematic reading and studying of the Word of God. Theology is simply the systematic study of what God has revealed; it is a technical term for the careful and systematic study of the Word of God. God commands every Christian to know his Word. The study of theology is the discipline of learning, in a systematic way, what God has spoken. D. James Kennedy, in his book Truths That Transform, writes: "Away with vain words . . . Christianity is life - not doctrine. . . . Our only creed is Christ . . . . Let us be done with dogma and go on to duty." Familiar words? Do you believe them? Millions have. And with such shibboleths as these, the ax has been laid to the root of genuine Christianity by Satan himself. "For as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he (Prov. 23:7)." If there is anything peculiar to the Protestant churches which emerges from the Reformation, it is this: All life must be grounded in truth. That which a man believes is going to determine what he does, and the life we live will spring inevitably from the beliefs that we hold. This is why we are saved by faith, and faith is the belief of the truth and the reception of it as such.

Christianity, indeed, is not only life, but also doctrine. It is a life which is produced by belief. Those who would castigate creed and dogma and doctrine should perchance take a look again at what these words mean. The word "doctrine" comes from the Latin word docere, which means to teach. The word "creed" comes from the Latin word credo, which means I believe. The word "dogma" comes from a Greek word dokeo which means to think. Therefore, a person who has no dogma, no creed and no doctrine is a person who neither thinks, believes, or teaches. But if you are going to think anything, believe anything, and teach anything, then, my friends, you need dogma, creed, and doctrine. This is the substance which forms the foundation of the Christian faith. The problem with so many today is that they do have dogma, doctrine, and creed, but they are usually of their own making. They have mixed them up and brewed them in their own minds. The problem is not that they do not hold such, but that which they hold is corrupted by untruth and falsehood. This is the reason for the low state of morality and the apathy which is rampant in this country and the Church today. If we are going to have a vital life in the Church, then that life must spring from the truth" (p. 79,80).

"Theology isnt important because it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere."

This objection fits well into the subjective and relativistic culture of our day. The greatest villain of our culture is the person who says that something is absolutely true and conversely its opposite is false. The study of Scripture in a systematic way informs the Christian's mind of what is true and what is right before God. True faith has true knowledge and content about its object. Without knowledge content, faith reduced to subjective speculation that usually ends in idolatry. R. C. Sproul writes, "A popular aphorism repeated ad infinitum (and indeed ad nauseam) in our day is this: 'It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere.' This 'credo' is on a collision course with Christianity. It preaches another gospel of 'justification by faith,' which reveals, after a momentary second glance, that it is the very antithesis of the gospel of sola fide. This reduces justification by faith along to justification by sincerity alone.

The distortion is easy to see. It is a counterfeit concept that rests and depends on a genuine truth for it currency value. The genuine element is the element of sincerity in faith. An insincere faith justifies no one. It is a sham and has no redemptive value. Saving faith must be and is sincere faith. But it is sincere faith in a true object, in true content, not a sincere faith in false content. A person may believe that Baal is God. His faith is 'sincere' insofar as he truly believes the proposition 'Baal is God' is true. Yet my believing that a proposition is true does not make it true.

To say it does not matter what we believe as long as we believe it sincerely is to drive a sword into the heart of Christianity. It is the crassest form of relativism and subjectivism.

We live in an era that boasts of its vehement resistance to propositional truth. Truth is said to be a 'relationship' or 'personal encounter.' Existential philosophy has placed so much stress on the personal and relational character of faith that an allergy has developed against propositional or objective truth.

Again, the distortion of the counterfeit rests on the genuine for its persuasive force. Christian faith certainly does involve and require a personal, relational, subjective response. Faith is not the activity of a disinterested spectator. The passion of personal involvement and commitment of which Soren Kierkegaard wrote is certainly necessary to saving faith. But personal encounter does not negate objective and propositional truth; indeed it presupposes it. I cannot have faith in nothing. My faith must have content or an object.

Before I can have personal relationship with God or anyone else, I must first be aware of them to some degree. I must have some intelligible understanding of what or whom I am believing. I cannot have God in my heart if he is not in my head. Before I can believe in, I must believe that.

It is possible to be aware of a proposition and even affirm the truth of that proposition and still lack a personal faith in it. But I cannot have the personal relationship without any understanding, information, or knowledge of the object of my faith. A faith without an object is sheer subjectivism." (Faith Alone, p. 76, 77).

SCRIPTURE COMMANDS SYSTEMATIC STUDY

Numerous passages in Scripture address the importance of systematic learning in the Christian life. Ephesians 4:11-15 speaks of certain ministry offices in the church and their purpose: "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ." God has appointed teachers in the church and the implication is that God's people are to be involved in learning and growing with the result that they would not be deceived.

The writer to the Hebrews gives a sharp rebuke to the recipients of his letter because they had neglected systematic learning: "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil" (Hebrews 5:12-14). Notice that he says they have come to need milk and not solid food. The youngest babies need milk and not solid food. A baby is just a few months old when he begins to eat cereal and baby food. This group of people had been Christians for enough time that the expectation was they would be teachers. Instead, they needed the most elementary teaching concerning the oracles of God. This is a sharp rebuke which tragically can be applied to many who profess to know Christ today.

In the great commission, Jesus tells the disciples to take the gospel to the world, making disciples of all the nations and teaching them all that Jesus had commanded them (Matt. 18:18-20). The disciples were not just to evangelize, but to make disciples and teach them all that Jesus had commanded them. At this crucial point in redemptive history, when Jesus was giving his apostles his last instructions, he commands them to be engaged in teaching the nations what he has commanded. Systematic study and learning are a normal part of biblical Christianity. There are repeated commands in Scripture to the Christian to read, study, and build into his Christian life a systematic understanding of what God's has spoken in his Word.

THE BENEFITS OF SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY

What are some of the benefits of a systematic study of God's Word? There are a myriad of benefits, but I want to mention five main areas where the Christian profits from the study of theology.

First, the Christian who systematically studies the Word of God knows truth. When a Christian knows what the Bible says about something, he knows the very mind of God on the subject. Whether he is studying the person and work of Christ, the accomplishment of our salvation, or the ethical commands of God, when he knows what the Bible says, he knows what God says and, therefore, knows truth about the subject. The systematic study of Gods Word is vital for Christians to know and grow in the truths of the Gospel.

The lack of systematic study is evident in the evangelical community. For example, in the area of basic gospel truths 84 percent of evangelicals embrace the idea that in salvation God helps those who help themselves, 77 percent believe that human beings are basically good and that good people go to heaven no matter what they believe about Jesus Christ, and more than half surveyed affirmed that self-fulfillment was their first priority.

Knowing the truth of Scripture protects a Christian from falsehood whether it is the false teaching of the cults or the falsehood of irrationalism and relativism of truth that pervades our culture.

Second, the Christian who systematically studies the Word of God has a strong faith. Strong faith is based on the integrity and promises of God. As a Christian understands the attributes of God, he knows that God is faithful and able to do that which he promises; he can do what he promises in our salvation and in his care for us in our lives. The Scriptural truths of God's sovereignty give us strength and confidence in our Christian living.

Third, the Christian who systematically studies the Word of God is able to grow in obedience to God. It is impossible to obey what you do not know. Part of systematic theology is the study of God's ethical commands. When a Christian knows the commands of God and they are inculcated into his thinking and worldview, he is able more effectively to grow in obedience to God. Scripture informs and binds his conscience not subjective speculation.

Fourth, the Christian who systematically studies the Word of God will be equipped to teach others and make disciples. As we observed earlier, the Hebrew Christians received a sharp rebuke for not knowing the basic teachings of the gospel. They were told that by that time they should have been teachers. There is an expectation that every Christian is to grow in his knowledge of the Word of God so that he can use his particular gifts in the body of Christ. The Christian is to positively influence others for Christ and help younger Christians grow in their faith and understanding.

Systematic study prepares the Christian to instruct others and make disciples.

Finally, the Christian who systematically studies the Word of God will be equipped to influence our culture. The foundation for ethics and moral action is what God has spoken. Research done by Gallup, Barna, and Hunter indicate that, in the realm of ethics, there is no statistical difference between evangelical Christians and non-Christians in the United States at large. The study of theology directly addresses the philosophical pressures our culture brings against the Christian. The Christian who knows the Scriptures is not easy prey to the anti-Christian thought patterns of a culture that does not know God. In 1961, Peter Berger spoke of the danger of churches abandoning theology: "When churches abandon or de-emphasize theology, they give up the intellectual tools by which the Christian message can be articulated and defended. In the resulting chaos of religious ideas the principal criterion left to the community as it seems to find its way is, quite naturally, that of expediency" (Noise Of A Solemn Assembly, p. 121). Without a strong and systematic understanding of the Word of God, the Christian is not equipped to resist the culture or influence it positively in terms of a Christian worldview.

At Covenant of Grace Church, we have a concern to help Christians systematically grow in their understanding of the Word of God. We want to help and challenge God's people to know and apply what God has revealed in Scripture. We encourage you to get involved in some of the Bible study opportunities in the church and to take advantage of some of the books and videos available in our church library. In this regard, we want to fight against the tendency in present American Christianity to de-emphasize or ignore theology.

Theology does matter! It is vital to a healthy, productive, growing Christian life and to an effective church that desires to influence this culture.

O
Onesetfree

How true this is...

Great post....I hope many read it!

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rnieman

Good article krispy... Thanks for posting it. I agree much ground has been lost in Chrisitianity today, because we don't teach theology/doctrine... I will say that we should absolutely study theology, but be on guard not to make our theology and idol. Instead we should experience our theology as well. thanks again Krispy.

Russ

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sermonindex

Hi Krispy, do you have any examples of people mocking the study of Gods word? I personally have not seen it here but then I dont read all the threads......... bro Frank

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sermonindex

I will say that we should absolutely study theology, but be on guard not to make our theology and idol.

Like the article says:

"Theology is not separated from practical Christian living."

We need both. We need theology and sound doctrine, we need the meat of the Word of God to survive. In real life meat is protein, and anyone who is into working out physically knows that. But in my mind it does no good to hang out a gym and put on muscle and become some huge sculpted muscle-head... and not do anything practical with it. Those are the guys that stand in the gym and admire themselves in the mirror.

We need the meat for protein to grow spiritual muscles so we can go out into the world and put those muscles to good use. But we cant put to good use something we dont have either. We need balance.

Krispy

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sermonindex

Hi Krispy, do you have any examples of people mocking the study of Gods word? I personally have not seen it here but then I dont read all the threads......... bro Frank

I'm not going to name names, but you can read some of the recent threads and see it. The one about Women Preachers is a fine example.

Krispy

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sermonindex

I did not read any of that thread, I will have a peek. Its hard to imagine that anyone would mock the study of Gods word............. Frank

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ginnyrose

QUOTE:
""Theology is not separated from practical Christian living."

We need both. We need theology and sound doctrine, we need the meat of the Word of God to survive."

AMEN!

When one understands God, his character, his attributes, one can understand better his will for mankind and to a small degree why.

If theology would not be essential for victorious living, we would not have it to study. Paul tells Timothy to study and what did he have to study? and the Bereans, what did they have to study?

R.C. Sproul takes the study of theology so serious I am told he will teach 5 year-olds in church theology, saying they can understand it. (This occurs during Sunday School!) This has challenged me much. Now when I teach children or older adults, I will teach theology - using the Bible stories that will illustrate the points essential to the topic at hand.

God bless.

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rnieman

One more thing; if our theology and doctrine don't make us more like Christ(Holy), then either our theology is dead, or we're not practicing what were preaching.

Russ

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ginnyrose

A rabbit trail...

Years ago "Christianity Today" printed an article discussing the ignorance of Bible stories found in churches. The writer mentioned how he attended a baptism service and the officiating pastor asked for a raise of hands of those that have been baptized. Not many hands hands were raised...

The writer went on lamenting about the ignorance found among 'Christian' people. Just demonstrates once more the devastating effects of a 'feel-good' theology at work. So we should not be surprised when one sees relativism being the motivating factor in decision making in the church and where the rubber meets the road the rest of the week.

God bless.

I
iceman9

Thanks for posting Krispy! Great article.

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sermonindex

Krispy, I have heard you say that you believe in the sign gifts of the Spirit, Did you know that RC is a cessasionist? Did you know that he is a partial preterist? I am not even sure what a partial preterist is, I know what a preterist is. Any theology that leads one to be a cessasionist is not sound. The study of God's Word is vital and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide one into all truth is vital. The deductions of mans reasonings outside of illumination will ultimately lead to a denial of the vital miracle working God of the Bible....... Frank

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sermonindex

Frank... that wasnt the point of the article Whether you believe what Sproul believes about the spiritual gifts is irrelevent to the article itself.

If I had not said it was written by Sproul I suspect you would praise it. But as it was, I felt I needed to give credit to the author of it. People were going to ask who wrote it anyway.

Krispy

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rbanks

Krispy do you believe that the life of the Holy Spirit comes out of doctrine or do you believe that doctrine comes out of the life of the Holy Spirit. In other words do you believe that doctrine produces life or that life produces the doctrines that we are to receive? This is very important because many like RC Sproul let their doctrinal understanding limit the ministry of the Holy Spirit. They don't seem to believe that the Holy Spirit can do the same today as He did in the days of the apostles.

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sermonindex

This is very important because many like RC Sproul let their doctrinal understanding limit the ministry of the Holy Spirit. They don't seem to believe that the Holy Spirit can do the same today as He did in the days of the apostles.

But isnt it your doctrine that makes you say that about RC Sproul? The train goes in both directions.

See, you dont like his doctrine on spiritual gifts so in your mind everything he has to say is wrong. I dont believe that. I dont believe in some things that Pentecostalism teaches, but I dont discount the whole thing.

It amazes me how quickly Charismatics dismiss any teacher that doesnt agree with them on gifts... I actually think there is a balance to be found. Gifts are not the focus. If they are then we are in violation of 2 Cor 13.

Krispy

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rbanks

Hebrews 13:7-8 (KJV)
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

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sermonindex

Where was the gift of tongues in the OT?

Krispy

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ZekeO

I agree wholeheartedly with the basic premise of what he is saying.

Let me says this though, what is needed is 'spirit filled correct doctrine'.

There are two scriptures from the gospels which explain what I mean:

1)Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

2)John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

And another from Corinthians:

1 Cor 2:11-16 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

What is a certainty is that God never contradicts himself, neither does he lie.

What is also a certainty is that unless I know what God is really like, in other words, the spirit of who he is. I cannot possibly understand what he means when something is written in the word.

I sense that much theology is undertaken without knowing who the author is, and what kind of 'person' he actually is. Attempting to study God through lenses of human wisdom can lead to what Jesus's comments were in the gospels.

So yes, theology is important, but let it come out of a place where it is in keeping with 'the spirit' of the original author.

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rbanks

Matthew 16:12 (KJV)
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 22:33 (KJV)
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Mark 1:27 (KJV)
27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

Mark 11:18 (KJV)
18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

Luke 4:32 (KJV)
32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

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sermonindex

Steven, before i even dare to enter into this, could you explain to me what this Precious Bit of Scripture means to you:

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:8 (ESV)

or humor me a bit a more in my foolishness, when i awake, prepare coffee and eat of the Word of God, so that i can KNOW the God of Word, is that "studying theology"? because this morning, i entered into the First Epistle to the Corinthians, carefully thru Chapters One thru Five.

Now if that SEEMS to be boasting, i boast not in my own flesh, but i boast in the LORD.

Now i know that i know, where the Holy Spirit led me, in reading this portion, but i sure would be in graditude, if you explained what this Portion means to you, vis-a-vis what Mr Sproul wrote:

"And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

1 Corinthians 2:1-16

------------------------------------------------------

i know that's a whole Chapter of a Pauline Epistle, but It is the Word of God, so after you pasted a whole section of what a man wrote, you, of course wouldnt mind me, posting the Word, and to see what that Passage speaks to you via the Comforter, God the Holy Ghost, the Teacher of Teachers.

what does the Above Passages speak to you? humbly, neil

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Solomon101

The thread began with the question , " Does Theology Matter?".

Perhaps the better question is EXACTLY WHICH PIECES of theology matter enough to disagree over. That is really the crux of the biscuit.

I believe there would be near universal agreement, although not quiet, here to the following theology-

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting.
(The word catholic simply means universal)

I have found that to move beyond this most basic theology will almost inevitably lead to disagreement. The question then becomes .... is it necessary to move beyond these basic statements of belief for most Christians?

If they can agree and walk in love and peace based on these then is it beneficial to add other theology that almost always ends up in disputes, disagreements, and arguments? Those arguments are not normally because the theology is difficult but rather because in a disagreement one of the parties WILL BE WRONG! Few are the individuals that can see they are in error and change their mind. Almost all of humanity will find a way to defend their position.. especially in matters of theology. The question becomes what theology is important enough to damage relationships and peoples feelings over. In my opinion... very little theology is. Much of anything beyond the apostles creed will only cause disagreements from people looking to defend their beliefs on the topic. Very few ever change their views unless they find those things themselves as they believe they are led by The Holy Spirit.

The vast majority of argumentative theologians would seem to be far better served in actually spending time fasting, praying, reading scripture, and sharing their faith with those around them. Unless an individual is a very spiritually minded individual we find the words of Paul far to often coming true..."knowledge puffs up". Until we can consistently DO the things we already know to do, but are left undone , why in God's name should we be looking to learn more?!?!?

S
sermonindex

Yes, you are right Steve, too long. However, I will comment on the simplest part, the title of the thread.

Theology does matter yes. But..(you gotta love that word 'but', eh).

I think what turns 'some' people off about theology is the very word itself.

It's like the word Religious. Well, less than a hundred years ago that word denoted piety and devotion, but today we look at that word to mean Pharisee or stiffnecked.

The song, "give me that old time religion" is what people wanted but when we sing it today, we omit the word religion for something else because of what I said above.

The word 'theology' says the same thing. There needs to be a new word established that doesn't denote dullness,, death, and religious workings. Maybe the word, 'LIFE' is a good substitute we could say, "We do need LIFE", instead of "We need theology".

Words do get into our mind and a word can cause us to move forward or take a step backward, it can be good and it can be bad. We hear the word, 'tradition' and we automatically think it's bad because of what Jesus said of the Pharisees, "you make void the word of God because of your traditions". But traditions can be both good and bad as long as they are not attached to the word of God to compromise it's meaning which the Pharisees were doing.

There are other examples, like the colourful word 'gay'. You can't use that anymore without the mind thinking of something else or heads are turned. But it's the only short word to denote an array of beautiful colours without having to consult a half a dozen other words.

In our world, that is how we view words and we avoid the subject entirely based upon those words. 'Theology' is a bad word in these parts, so I have to tread carefully when I want to share something with my friends who consider those types of words as "religious".

S
sermonindex

Krispy, you wrote ......

"But isnt it your doctrine that makes you say that about RC Sproul? The train goes in both directions."

A cessasionist denies the fact that God still works in the supernatural, that is not a dcotrine, that is a fundamental denial of the Bible from the first page to the last. The cessasionist says " ah yes, the Bible does say that, but it ceased." He can give no evidence of it but he can deny evidence that it has not ceased. I, for one, am not a charismatic Krispy.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Brother hezwelling also posted appropriate Scriptures to speak to this subject. Our supernatural God is alive and well and working and speaking to His people. He, by the Holy Spirit is still leading and guiding and illuminating the Scriptures to his Children, not through isms, but by and through the power of God. If any, even an angel of light should come and teach others that God no longer moves in the supernatural, that one can be easily enough ignored. Scriptures themselves admonish such a one.........bro Frank

S
sermonindex

A cessasionist denies the fact that God still works in the supernatural, that is not a dcotrine, that is a fundamental denial of the Bible from the first page to the last. The cessasionist says " ah yes, the Bible does say that, but it ceased." He can give no evidence of it but he can deny evidence that it has not ceased. I, for one, am not a charismatic Krispy.

That is an over generalization of what cessionist think, and it's also not true. Especially the first part.

I love ya brother... and we are all guilty of overgeneralizing opposing positions. Myself included.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

I think what turns 'some' people off about theology is the very word itself.

Neil asked if just reading his Bible would be considered by me to be "studying theology".

Uhh... yea... thats studying theology in it's purest form.

We all agree that one of the problems in the church today is that the Bible has been abandoned. Well, yea... reading and studying your Bible IS studying theology.

People always assume it means going to seminary. It doesnt.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Hey Krispy,

Q “ How do you feel about current supernatural works of the Holy Spirit?

A I feel good about the Holy Spirit miraculously doing His work of bringing men to salvation¦ But concerning miracles as defined theologically I am a cessationist¦. Miracles in Scripture were used by God to verify and authenticate agents of revelation and to verify the divinity of Christ¦ God is not doing such miracles today.

This was RCs answer at a recent conference. Now the same position would also argue that the sign gifts of the Spirit have ceased which would obviously include tongues. So, no sign gifts and no miracales but apparently there is still salvation. Where is the over generalisation Krispy?

He is the guy that you used to make your point right? What he states above is the classic cessasionist position. My point is brother, if their studies have brought them to that conclusion, then something is seriously wrong with what they would call hermaneutics ( tha art and science of studying the Bible) I would submit to you that there is no art nor science in studying the Bible other than what Neil said, reading it and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you. Now I would highly commend that and I am sure you would agree with me? .......... bro Frank

J
jimp

hi, the problem with theology is that it is an eternal subject of such grand proportions. some feel like they have a great knowlege of it and opine on this and other forums with great authority.what i am saying is that theology is not the problem ;it is those that are dumb and proud enough to think theirs is the true interpretation.after 50 years of study and ministry i know nothing except Jesus ,and Him crucified...how can a finite man examine an omnipotent God and think they have the whole truth on Him.the latest are the name theologians. people who got saved by calling on Jesus and weeping before a holy God now say that God has to be called jhwh and the name of Jesus must be this or that or They will not answer your prayers.if i called 911 and asked for the big red square truck for medical help;they would probably send an ambulance.jimp

S
sermonindex

Frank... here's the deal, I posted an article that was about the importance of theology. Quite frankly, what was written was true. It really didnt matter who wrote it. But rather than discuss the article somehow we have veered off the road onto tongues and RC Sproul's position as a cessationist.

I know threads usually veer off course, thats to be expected around here, but I maintain that if I had not mentioned that Sproul wrote this we would not even be having this discussion... at least not about tongues, etc.

Thats part of the problem on this thread lately. Tongues has become the litmus test for what is true or not. It should not be that way.

The Word of God is the authority, not whether someone speaks or even believes in tongues.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Steve, you never saw fit to testify what Scriptures i posted say to your heart. It's okay if you'd rather not....ABSOLUTELY okay.

what God the Holy Ghost says to me via Scripture, or via the Small Still Voice i usually keep to myself, thats why i didnt want to be concerning myself over what RC Sproul or any other "leader", or "teacher", or "illuminary" says.

thats why i asked you what those two Passages of Scripture meant to you, in your words.

i find these straw dogs detestable, i find 'culture wars" detestable, i find overusage of the words, "liberal", "conservative", "fundamentalism" detestable. i even find the word "denomination" so detestable, that it points to the limp impotent backslidden nature of what now passes for "Christianity".

i dont know whats more limp and backslidden, constantine's roman institution or the red white and blue north american "evangelical churches", if it wasnt for the hidden pressed out persecuted house Churches of the world, God's "seven thousand", this world would be lost.

anyway, you showed me no honor by ignoring my entreaty

S
sermonindex

Hey Krispy, I thought it would be helpful to quote your opening paragraph so that we can see why you posted the article and where you are coming from..........

" know... posting this article means it wont get read. Too long, and most dont care about the topic. But more and more there are people coming to this forum who mock believers who take seriously the study if Theology and sound doctrine."

That was how you started it, you made a charge. I asked you for examples of mocking. I read some of the thread that you pointed me to. Same old topic that I have seen here many many times before, and lets put it in theologicala terms since I am a theology major from a Calvinist school( big surprise eh brother:) As in so many times in the past it comes down to Biblicentricty and Christocentricity.

The argument has always been that there are textulists, people who busy themselves in the art and science of studying the Bible and become experts in the text. They know nothing of the person of Jesus, emotions are mocked and scorned and anything supernatural, apart from salvation, is rejected. And so it is, one can be an expert on the Bible and not know Jesus, hence the Pharisees and the scribes.

Then there is Christocentric people, people who have a passion for the person of Jesus, who have been completely transformed by the power of the Lord and have become new creatures in Christ. When they say that the Word itself cannot save them, only the person of Jesus can save, they are charged with rejecting the Bible, they themselves are mocked and then called upon to repent by the textulists. Of course the irony is that Christocentric people do ahve a passion for the word of God, they soak it in. Consider what Tozer says on the subject in Gods pursuit of man. Its most of chapter 2 but I think you need to read it brother and perhaps you may see some pride in your own position?

Chapter 2.
In Word, or in Power

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost.
(1 Thessalonians 1:5)


If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.
(2 Corinthians 5:17)


I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. (Revelation 3:1)


To one who is a student merely, these verses might be interesting, but to a serious man intent upon gaining eternal life they might well prove more than a little disturbing. For they evidently teach that the message of the gospel may be received in either of two ways: in word only, without power, or in word with power. Yet it is the same message whether it comes in word or in power. And these verses teach also that when the message is received in power it effects a change so radical as to be called a new creation. But the message may be received without power, and apparently some have so received it, for they have a name to live and are dead. All this is present in these texts.

By observing the ways of men at play I have been able to understand better the ways of men at prayer. Most men, indeed, play at religion as they play at games, religion itself being of all games the one most universally played. The various sports have their rules and their balls and their players; the game excites interest, gives pleasure and consumes time, and when it is over the competing teams laugh and leave the field. It is common to see a player leave one team and join another and a few days later play against his old mates with as great zest as he formerly displayed when playing for them. The whole thing is arbitrary. It consists in solving artificial problems and attacking difficulties which have been deliberately created for the sake of the game. It has no moral roots and is not supposed to have. No one is the better for his self-imposed toil. It is all but a pleasant activity which changes nothing and settles nothing at last.

If the condition we describe were confined to the ballpark we might pass it over without further thought, but what are we to say when this same spirit enters the sanctuary and decides the attitude of men toward God and religion? For the Church has also its fields and its rules and its equipment for playing the game of pious words. It has its devotees, both laymen and professionals, who support the game with their money and encourage it with their presence, but who are no different in life or character from many who take in religion no interest at all.

As an athlete uses a ball, so do many of us use words: words spoken and words sung, words written and words uttered in prayer. We throw them swiftly across the field; we learn to handle them with dexterity and grace; we build reputations upon our word skill and gain as our reward the applause of those who have enjoyed the game. But the emptiness of it is apparent from the fact that after the pleasant religious game no one is basically any different from what he had been before. The bases of life remain unchanged, the same old principles govern, the same old Adam rules.

I have not said that religion without power makes no changes in a man's life, only that it makes no fundamental difference. Water may change from liquid to vapor and still be fundamentally the same. So powerless religion may put a man through many surface changes and leave him exactly what he was before. Right there is where the snare lies. The changes are in form only, they are not in kind. Behind the activities of the non-religious man and the man who has received the gospel without power lie the very same motives.

An unblessed ego lies at the bottom of both lives, the difference being that the religious man has learned better to disguise his vice. His sins are refined and less offensive than before he took up religion, but the man himself is not a better man in the sight of God. He may indeed be a worse one, for always God hates artificiality and pretense. Selfishness still throbs like an engine at the center of the man's life. True, he may learn to "redirect" his selfish impulses, but his woe is that self still lives unrebuked and even unsuspected within his deep heart. He is a victim of religion without power.
The man who has received the Word without power has trimmed his hedge, but it is a thorn hedge still and can never bring forth the fruits of the new life. Yet such a man may be a leader in the Church and his influence and his vote may go far to determine what religion shall be in his generation.
—God's Pursuit of Man

B
brothagary

hi frank ,,,can you be frank for me so to speak ,and tell me if you are saying rc sproul ,is not a bornagain christan

have you read his testamony of his conversion,,,or are you judging him by your own theology ,which ,correct me if im wroung arimian pentacostal theoligy


just wondering


and are you saying that according to your theoligy all cavinists that dont believe in miraculas gifts are still dead in there sins

it seems you are pushing to imply that ,,just wonering ,if it is so ,,,,,,,,,thank bro

B
brothagary

i thought i would post rc sprouls view on the new birth

tho it is different for weaslian arminianism ,,it has the aroma of life conected to it ,,

and weasly him self saw the truth in his brothers whitfield theoligy which is the same as rc sproul

so weasly said we should keep close to this doctrine

and i will say weasly is much wiser then all of us here ,,

and he saved more souls then all of us put together on this thred

In the Augustinian and Reformation view, regeneration is seen first of all as a supernatural work of God. Regeneration is the divine work of God the Holy Spirit upon the minds and souls of fallen people, by which the Spirit quickens those who are spiritually dead and makes them spiritually alive. This supernatural work rescues that person from his bondage to sin and his moral inability to incline himself towards the things of God. Regeneration, by being a supernatural work, is obviously a work that cannot be accomplished by natural man on his own. If it were a natural work, it would not require the intervention of God the Holy Spirit.

Secondly, regeneration is a monergistic work. “Monergistic” means that it is the work of one person who exercises his power. In the case of regeneration, it is God alone who is able, and it is God alone who performs the work of regenerating the human soul. The work of regeneration is not a joint venture between the fallen person and the divine Spirit; it is solely the work of God.

Thirdly, the monergistic work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit is an immediate work. It is immediate with respect to time, and it is immediate with respect to the principle of operating without intervening means. The Holy Spirit does not use something apart from His own power to bring a person from spiritual death to spiritual life, and when that work is accomplished, it is accomplished instantaneously. No one is partly regenerate, or almost regenerate. Here we have a classic either/or situation. A person is either born again, or he is not born again. There is no nine-month gestation period with respect to this birth. When the Spirit changes the disposition of the human soul, He does it instantly. A person may not be aware of this internal work accomplished by God for some time after it has actually occurred. But though our awareness of it may be gradual, the action of it is instantaneous.

Fourthly, the work of regeneration is effectual. That is, when the Holy Spirit regenerates a human soul, the purpose of that regeneration is to bring that person to saving faith in Jesus Christ. That purpose is effected and accomplished as God purposes in the intervention. Regeneration is more than giving a person the possibility of having faith, it gives him the certainty of possessing that saving faith.

The result of our regeneration is first of all faith, which then results in justification and adoption into the family of God. Nobody is born into this world a child of the family of God. We are born as children of wrath. The only way we enter into the family of God is by adoption, and that adoption occurs when we are united to God’s only begotten Son by faith. When by faith we are united with Christ, we are then adopted into that family of whom Christ is the firstborn. Regeneration therefore involves a new genesis, a new beginning, a new birth. It is that birth by which we enter into the family of God by adoption.

Finally, it’s important to see that regeneration is a gift that God disposes sovereignly to all of those whom He determines to bring into His family


B
brothagary

you know having lisened to many of tozers sermon ,,iv herd him speak verry highly of the old reformers having the life of god,, presbterians ,,and even many of the old saints ,,even ravenhill ,speaks in a posative way ,of whitfield ,and brainhard ,and edwards ,,all cesainists

i believe incorrect theoligy can blind a person ,to the grace that these men obtained

S
sermonindex

Steve, you never saw fit to testify what Scriptures i posted say to your heart. It's okay if you'd rather not....ABSOLUTELY okay

Seriously? Ugh... walk a mile in my shoes yesterday afternoon and you would understand why I did not have the the time to respond. I also work in the eveing.

You asked me to do an expository on an entire chapter... so when I have time I will respond.

anyway, you showed me no honor by ignoring my entreaty

I would have done you no honor by giving you a fast and loose answer. I didnt ignore you. If it had been a couple days and I didnt respond, then THAT would be ignoring you. Not a couple of hours.

Krispy

G
ginnyrose

Approved you do make a good point - the definition of words has mutated or evolved over the years, meaning something different then originally intended.

However, the word "theology" simply means "study of God": Theos - God; ology- study of. Having said this I find no one complaining about the words biology, physiology, etc...Perhaps there is a spiritual force at work working to scare people away from God? These distractors are not being consistent, are they?

S
sermonindex

However, the word "theology" simply means "study of God": Theos - God; ology- study of. Having said this I find no one complaining about the words biology, physiology, etc...Perhaps there is a spiritual force at work working to scare people away from God? These distractors are not being consistent, are they?

Leave it to a Mississippian to understand what I have been saying all along... and articulate it so well, and so simply.

Thank you, Ginny...

Krispy

S
sermonindex

I think brother the reason why tongues and other issues like that come up is because you've put yourself out there to be stoned so to speak, your an easy target. If I blurted out some of the things that I believed on this forum, I guarantee I will be stoned, drawn and quartered and then thrown to the lions. We dig at people to try to understand why they believe what they believe and the audacity to declare it, hence, forum dialogue.

It's like the woman who said to Elijah after he told her that she was going to have a baby and here she is an old woman, shocked and disbelief, "Don't lie to me man of God".

It's shocking to hear somethings even from a man of God such as yourself to speak of things like that, so your going to get some backlash.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Probably a more fitting word for 'condemned' is judged because later on it's says that we are going to be judged by every idle word that is spoken.

S
sermonindex

However, the word "theology" simply means "study of God"
Oh I know what the word means Sis. For example, when I see the word 'theology' , personally, all I see is non Holy Spirit filled literature, dull and boring reading that will fill my brain with nonsensical, philosophical ideas. To me, it's like reading the 'begets' in Numbers. The very word 'theology' is a turn off. But to study the word of God, hey lets do it!

S
sermonindex

HI Gary,

I have never heard RCs testimony so I cannot comment. Perhaps you would like to post his testimony, I always love to read testimonies. What you posted was someone's attempt to explain what regeneration is. I guarantee you that you will rarely hear any Christian stand, as they give glory to God for the day that He came into their lives and say " He did a monergistic work in my life through the Holy Spirit." And I also guarnatee you that Wesley or Whitfield or Finney did not go around the country with the rallying cry " you need a monergistic work of the Holy Spirit in your life."

I wholeheartedly reject the theology of anyone who comes to the conclusion that God is not a miracle working God, now, in the past and in the future. I reject the theology of anyone who says that God does not speak to His people through tongues, through words of knowledge or the small still voice. I could care less the reputation or the theology of a man, if these are his conlclusions, then that man is ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the Truth. An intimate, life changing, passionate knowledge of Jesus Christ the person who is the Truth. There is the language of the scribe, then there is the language of somenone who has seen the king of glory.
Gary, I would put it to you that the words that you presented here by Mr Sproul are the words of a scribe. ........bro Frank

Hearts that are “fit to break” with love for the Godhead
are those who have been in the Presence and have looked with opened eye upon the majesty of Deity. Men of the breaking hearts had a quality about them not known to or understood by common men. They habitually spoke with spiritual authority. They had been in the Presence of God and they reported what they saw there. They were prophets, not scribes: for the scribe tells us what he has read, and the prophet tells us what he has seen.

The distinction is not an imaginary one. Between the scribe
who has read and the prophet who has seen, there is a difference as wide as the sea. We are today overrun with
orthodox scribes; but the prophets, where are they? The hard voice of the scribe sounds over evangelicalism, but the Church waits for the tender voice of the saint who has penetrated the veil and has gazed with inward eye upon the Wonder that is God.
… A. W. Tozer (1897-1963), The Pursuit of God [1948],
Christian Publications, 1982, p. 40


J
Joyful_Heart

(I wholeheartedly reject the theology of anyone who comes to the conclusion that God is not a miracle working God, now, in the past and in the future. I reject the theology of anyone who says that God does not speak to His people through tongues, through words of knowledge or the small still voice. I could care less the reputation or the theology of a man, if these are his conlclusions, then that man is ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the Truth. An intimate, life changing, passionate knowledge of Jesus Christ the person who is the Truth. There is the language of the scribe, then there is the language of somenone who has seen the king of glory.) from Brother Frank.

AMEN AND AMEN!

S
sermonindex

Gary, I would put it to you that the words that you presented here by Mr Sproul are the words of a scribe. ........bro Frank

Wow, thats not judgemental at all. You admit you dont even know much about RC Sproul (and imply you've never read or heard anything he's preached or taught)... and you draw this conclusion?

Amazing.

...and people call me judgemental?

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Hi Krispy,

Its not very amazing brother. The words that Gary ascribed to RC as his testimony sounded like the words of a scribe to me. Then when you tie that to the fact that he is a cessasionist, he rejects the miraculous for today, I am not sure what other conclusion you would expect from a self described pentecostal brother?

When did I say that I had never read or heard him teach? I said that I had never heard his testimony apart from what Gary shared. Was Geroge Whitfield judgmental when he wrote an open letter claiming that the vast majority of the ministers of the church of England knew nothing of the new birth?( he was banned from the pulpit for this) Was Ravenhill judgmental when he said that only about 7% of professing Christains in America were actually saved? Was Paul Washer judgmental when he stood before the Baptist youth? . Would you ban these people from your own church Krispy? ............Frank

S
sermonindex


I am locking this thread. Brothers when we begin to personally accuse each other then that type of discussion has no place on the forums. Krispy please do refrain from this in the future or if that kind of discussions take place then we will have to ask you to move on from the forums. To personally accuse brothers and feel like we are always being accused will never allow godly good conversations to occur.

If we are willing to post an article then those who disagree with the article, do not disagree with ourselves personally but some thoughts in that article, we have to be open to this in love and to be willing also to learn in humility.

We must discuss these issues not pointing to each other, but to the actual issues, topics and doctrines. May all things be done in love.

This thread is being locked for this reason and for the face that the thread has run its course, please do not re-start a new thread under the same topic.

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
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