True Repentance

Dear Brethren,

I just want to ask about true repentance as opposed to false repentance. I've been reading some articles on true repentance and they explain the motives of why we repent. Many times I read these articles and I get convicted. I wished my motives were a lot more pure in repenting, but it seems at times it is repentance out of consequence, and not an abhorrence to sin. I've read about repentance being God-centred and not man-centred, and all these things are true, but it seems hard to pull it off. Sometimes my willingness to repent is weak due to much fear overtaking me. I ask for your prayers but also please reply to this one question:

How is true repentance performed?

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

http://www.gospeltruth.net/1836LTPC/ltpc09_tandf_repentance.htm

http://www.ccwonline.org/repent.html

Here are some of the articles on repentance I've read.

Here is a post from 2010. Joyful_Heart posted an article by David Wilkerson called It Began With Repentance. It's a worthy read.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36624&forum=45&2

To show you true repentance I have to show you the false one.
John Chapter 8 shows us the Pharisees who went to stone the adulterous women. When Jesus showed them their sinful life they put the stone down and turned away from stoning her. If repentance is only turning away from our actions and to accept that we are sinners then the Pharisees have done it there. I would believe that even they felt sorry for their sinful life. But something was missing there because if the Pharisees truly repented there then they won't have crucified Jesus. The only thing missing was that they turned back to their own life thinking that they can live Sinless life by their own effort. This is a lie that our flesh tells us to have confidence in him. Instead if the Pharisees had fallen on the feet of Jesus asking him to save them from their sinful life then Jesus would have given them the spring of living water that will save them.

Even in my life many times I felt sorry for sinning against God and cried out loud but what I did after that will only show whether they were true tears or crocodile tears. If they were true then I would cling to Jesus and will ask his spirit to guide me saying I have no confidence in Flesh. If it was false then I would have walked back like Pharisees thinking that I can live a sinless life myself.

God showed me this and it really helped me to repent and cling to Jesus. I pray that this truth will work for you too.

In short Repentance is to,
1. Hate our sins
2. Turn back from them like how the Prodigal son turned from Pigs food.
3. Walk towards Jesus like how the Prodigal son walked towards his father.

I was an ordinary sinner until sometime when my brother invited me to a sunday service at their campus fellowship.

There a missionary was preaching the gospel and there I met Jesus, I guess as savior and Lord.

After the service it seemed like an ordinary day, but something has really changed in my heart, their was that drive to turn away from sinning, to pray, to read the bible, to depend on God for my life.

As if God became someone close to me, I fear Him yet I am comfortable with Him as if He wanted me to depend on Him like a father.

If that is repentance, I realize that it is an ongoing process, it is polished over and over again, being so painful, very challenging, and disheartening at times.

As I recollect, repentance started that day when I put my trust in Jesus as a result of new birth. It is not perfect yet, but when I am so discouraged about it all, about myself, there in my heart it echoes " my grace is sufficient for you".

true repentance is a supanatural gift from god

the bible talks about only god grants repentance

in comes by true spirtual conviction
when he comes the spirit of truth,he will convictd the world of sin ,rightesness and judment

i think in repentance will carrie a strong conviction of sin ,and a hatred for sin ,a cry as the prophert cryed ,i am a man of unclean lips and i dwell in the midts of an unclean people ,, it will produce a scence that only jesus is righeousand holy ,and absaultly pure and will convict of a scence of impending judment upon the world ,and us unless we turn to god
sin
righeousness
judgment

and will produces ,fruits of the spirit , or fruits of repentance ,,,,,a changed life

i believe somtimes this is a striking expereance
and in others a more gradual reality

false repentence will not do these things

hi,sin ful man can not repent from sin for if he could he would not need a redeemer. what he does is turns his life from self rule to Jesus rule. this is what we mean when we say ask for Jesus to come and be our Lord. altars are made for sacrifices,so when you go to the altar,you go to die.God births you as a new creation only after the old is dead to self and then becomes alive to God.jimp

hi,sin ful man can not repent from sin for if he could he would not need a redeemer.

A Christian Repentance is the process of turning back to redeemer from his sinful life with a Change of Heart. The meaning of Repentance itself is to turn back. You do not need a redeemer to turn back. Many drug addicts turn back from their addiction without any Jesus. A true disciple is one who understands that he is so weak that he needs a savior so that he does not fall again after repentance. This is salvation that the Savior protects you from falling.
Without repentance no one can be born again. This is very first message of New Covenant and sad that people are still struggling to understand this truth.

No groom will be ready to even accept a bride who is unwilling to leave her ex-boyfriend. If the bride says I will be with you 6 days a week but just 1 day I will spend with my ex every week, then no Groom will be willing to accept her.

sree, a groom loves a bride that gives her entire life to him to honor him. it is not about sin, it is about who are you serving...who are you dedicated to.who is your LOrd? is it yourself or Jesus?jimp

i think true repentence is not done by the unbelieveing mind ,,but in faith ,tho it may start out small and the faith it is married too might be small

it seems to be a two fold experance ...turning from sin in faith and toward god in faith

and a person must experance something of regenration to be able to do this ,,weather it be the birth of regenration ,or a type of preveinal grace that draws a man into repentance ,,,,,,,it cant be done with out regenerating grace ,,and if it could be done apart from gods supatatural power ,then man doesnt need god to save him

no man can come to me unless my father draw him

jesus spoke those words to those who were dead in sins

all of salvation is of the lord ,from the beginning to the end ,,,,,,man as dead in sins cant cause his carnal mind to recieve the desire to do a spirtaul thing like repent and believe ,,,unless god changes him ,and as the bible says grants him a messure of faith

man in no ways can grant him self the ability to repent and believe,,,,,,but he can recieve

all the glory and thanks be to our god who saves

sree, a groom loves a bride that gives her entire life to him to honor him. it is not about sin, it is about who are you serving...who are you dedicated to.who is your LOrd? is it yourself or Jesus?

Who a person is serving is based on whether there is Sin in his life or not. According to the words of Jesus,

John 8:34 :- Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Jesus also said that a slave cannot serve 2 masters. So how is that a man with un-confessed and un-repented sin can serve God when he is already a slave to sin? He cannot, he is deceiving him self. God is not deceived.

It is regarding these people that Jesus talked about in Matthew 7-22, where he said "DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS". They were thinking that they are serving God by their actions but Jesus said I do not know you. I am sure these people did some service otherwise no one can say a lie to Jesus on that day or mock at him.

Am not here to teach nor to correct anyone who is believing in unscriptural doctrines, but spreading such unscriptural stuff and there by causing little ones to stumble is a greater sin.

hi, over 50 years ago i asked my father what love was and he told me it was being able to clean urine and defication off of someone for years with joy and not regreting a moment. when you are not sinning the emphases is on you but when you serve the emphases is on He Whom you serve. these are not my sheep because I was hungry and they fed me not....and not of your self so that you can boast...your best is like filthy rags...jimp

I rather actually repent than know profoundly the definition of repentance thereof.

When I was converted I am almost completely theologically ignorant except that I heard and realize John 3:16, and if my memory serves me right, Romans 3:26.

My concept of sin was so rudimentary then, but early on I have this sense of drifting towards holiness, christian perfection, of dying to the world and to myself, on to serving God and loving my neighbors. The direction of my life is just so different from my former thoughts and aspirations.

I guess it really started when I trusted Jesus for my life.

No, I am not going to promote easy-believism, my point is, as 'Brothagary' implied, true repentance that goes on with our salvation, is a work of God. Without Him we are, but just chasing the wind.

Nor_ that I am going to promote antinomianism. The scripture says God will put the law into our mind and write it on hearts (Jer 31:33). I guess they are the same law that He gave to Abraham, to Moses, to David, and to His Apostles, but now, their is much enlightenment, much grace, empowerment, and charity.

Christians are not meant to live wantonly, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" (2 Tim 2:19).

What is the only sin needed to be repented of for salvation.

Unbelief.

The rest comes from Holy Spirit conviction and the Spirit of Christ in us through sanctification.

John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

In Christ: Phillip

dear philip, wonderful post... i have known many a person who were hooked on this that or theother and got off of (repented from )their sin and habits through shear will power or step programs. unless they turn their lives over to Christ they remain lost as kooter brown. you must believe on Jesus and into Jesus and yield your life to Him.He already conquered sin for you at the cross.you emphases on sin amazes me. He is the way... He is the door ...He is the life... it is the turning your life aver to Him that you gain access to His kingdom. He is the narrow gate and life in Him is the only path that leads to His rewards.jimp my message to philip ended with post.

Quote:

"""dear philip, wonderful post... i have known many a person who were hooked on this that or theother and got off of (repented from )their sin and habits through shear will power or step programs. unless they turn their lives over to Christ they remain lost as kooter brown. you must believe on Jesus and into Jesus and yield your life to Him.He already conquered sin for you at the cross.you emphases on sin amazes me. He is the way... He is the door ...He is the life... it is the turning your life aver to Him that you gain access to His kingdom. He is the narrow gate and life in Him is the only path that leads to His rewards.jimp my message to philip ended with post."""

Is this not what true sanctification is all about, The Christ in us coming forth through us as us?

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Througt Him, by Him, in Him and Him in us is the only thing that changes dirty rags to white robes of righteousness, me being sanctified through His righteousness in me. That is my labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip

Repentance is to turn from you're sin. If there is an hatred in you're heart, you desire to be free, then turn you're back to them and run from them (= Repentance) and look to Christ (= Faith).

If you don't have a desire to be free from sin, then go to Christ for a new heart, for a change.

Seek His face until you have found Him! Give you're live to Him in surrender.

hi, when one gives his life over to Jesus and away from self rule,he then automatically is turning away from sin and the source of sin. in 25 years of hearing confessions, an ex priest said that noone ever confessed to covetting. this is the beginning of all sin and it is egoscentric.th man in the mirror is your enemy and your problem and needs to placed in Jesus as a yielded sacrifice to be saved. john 3:16 says that whosoever believes into(eis greek)Him shall have eternal zoe life.jimp

Again;

Through Him, by Him, in Him and Him in us is the only thing that changes dirty rags to white robes of righteousness, me being sanctified through His righteousness in me. That is my labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is my only labour that produces Godly repentance and this only if God grants it.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Repentance unto perfection can only come from one place;
"If God permits".

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

How did Jesus overcome and learn obedience? By the nature of who He was. The Son of the most high God, our Father.
How do we repent and overcome? By the new nature that has been birthed in us.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Repentance then comes from God by our new life, by the Christ in us, granted by the Father unto a new man, the old man has been crucified on the Cross with Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

What life do we now live?

In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43925&forum=34&1

Grace for the Unwilling

There is even grace for those who are unwilling to repent.

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Without repentance no one can be born again. This is very first message of New Covenant and sad that people are still struggling to understand this truth.

Hi Sree,

If this statement that you made earlier is true then how can Ephesians 2:9-10 be true?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

If I have to work for something is no longer a gift and no longer grace.

Hi Sree,

Jesus also said that a slave cannot serve 2 masters. So how is that a man with un-confessed and un-repented sin can serve God when he is already a slave to sin? He cannot, he is deceiving him self. God is not deceived.

You are taking this scripture out of context, the context is the Lord speaking about money, and the love of money. He says very straightforward "you cannot serve God AND mammon".

Your belief here would nullify the process of sanctification and there would be no need to 'press on to perfection' because we would already be perfect upon regeneration. These two issues cannot be lumped together.

For example:

Since I was born again I had been living my life with still in fear of many things. This is clearly a sin, but the fact of the matter is I had no clue about it, I was just so used to living my life in fear that it was the accepted default in my life that I lived out unconsciously. A few weeks ago the Lord showed me how it was effecting me and I confessed the sin and asked Him to CLEANSE ME of it like it says in 1 John 1:9:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Since I had this operating in my life since day one of my salvation, if I died I would be in hell?

Here's another example:

Brother Zac freely admits that he had a problem with anger for many years before being delivered from it. If he died before being delivered or even recognized the problem was he going to hell?

If this statement that you made earlier is true then how can Ephesians 2:9-10 be true?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

A person is born again when he believes in Jesus. How can someone say he believes in Jesus without believing in what he preached.
Matthew 4:17- Says
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

So if someone does not repent from their sinful life then how can he even be called a believer in Jesus? Please see my examples of a Bride who is unwilling to part from her ex boyfriend.

If I have to work for something is no longer a gift and no longer grace.

Many do not have a clear picture of work and that is why they fall into false doctrines. By Work Paul meant that doing good like helping poor etc. By such good work we cannot cover out sins. Many rich men donate lots of money thinking it will compensate for their wrong earnings but this is not true. Only Blood of Jesus can cleanse our sins. There is one more poster here who has posted that if you serve God by opening Church then you no need to worry about sin, the problem is this is exactly what Paul rejects as salvation by work. There is nothing wrong in doing Good work but because you do this work if you believe that your sins will be forgiven then it becomes dead work.

Our Good works are like stars, when the love of Jesus which is shown to us on Calvary is shining bright like Sun in our life then these stars will never be seen out. But if we live in darkness (with sin) then the stars will shine, but what is the use, our life is dark without Jesus.

Even Repentance can become a dead work if we think that just because I turned from my past life I am saved, but it is not true. True Repentance is to turn towards Jesus away from our sinful life.

If repentance is work and God does want us to do then please read Revelation Chapter 2 (verses 5, 16 etc). God is asking Churches that are held in his own hands to Repent. These are not words spoken to unbelievers. But to believers who are part of a Church.

You are taking this scripture out of context, the context is the Lord speaking about money, and the love of money. He says very straightforward "you cannot serve God AND mammon".

Matthew 6-24:-No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

I am not taking any verse out of context. Jesus here is using the real life fact that a man cannot serve 2 masters to show that we cannot serve God and Money. So the first half of Matthew 6-24 is a fact- "No man can serve two masters".

Now lets go to John 8-34:-Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

So a man who has sins in his life (that he is aware) is already a slave to them how can he serve God if he is already a slave to Sin? He has to repent and confess them to Jesus, he will cleanse them and now he is free to serve God.

For example when you lust after a women with your eyes you are sinning by making your eyes a slave to your sexual passions. Now if you do not repent how can you come back and use the same eye for serving God. They eye is already made a slave.

Brother Zac freely admits that he had a problem with anger for many years before being delivered from it. If he died before being delivered or even recognized the problem was he going to hell?

You yourself quoted John 1:8. If you read it carefully there is a condition that we should confess our sins. How can you confess when you are actually living in it? So you need to turn away from them (repent) and then confess to God, he will cleanse us.

It is true that Brother Zac is not prefect yet. He has struggled with Anger. But every time he gets angry with someone he confess it to God, apologize to people and believes that God will set him free. And that belief came true after some struggles, he is now anger free. He now openly says that there is nothing that people can do to offend him.

Now if he had died when he had unconfessed anger in his heart then he will go to hell. But since he repented as and when he realized his sins he was always ready for Jesus's second coming.

I am not taking any verse out of context. Jesus here is using the real life fact that a man cannot serve 2 masters to show that we cannot serve God and Money. So the first half of Matthew 6-24 is a fact- "No man can serve two masters".

Now lets go to John 8-34:-Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

How about we don't jump to John 8, this is where you are lumping the teachings together and taking them out of context.

One is a teaching about money and the love of it and the other is about who the true decedents of Abraham are, the two topics are not related whatsoever.

We are not saved in any way by works, period. We are not saved today by grace today and then tomorrow, we have a list of things to perform (this is dead works) anything not done in love of Christ are dead works. The free grace pendulum has run to one side of it's swing and now it's on the other extreme side since there has been an emphasis on false conversions. Now salvation is not just dependent on Christ and the Holy Spirit, now works factors into the equation. This line of thought is what the whole book of Galatians is about:

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

A FREE GIFT is not bought and paid for by us, if I have to work, the gift is not free, it's wages. These two terms FREE and WORK can never reconcile, they are diametrically opposed.

What I'm concerned about is creating religious people that accept the premise of Christ dying on the cross for their sins, and then tomorrow start trying to work out their religion as 'sons of satan' (un-regenerated religious people):

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Here's a quote from brother sscott that says what I mean better than I ever could:

Lordship salvation frontloads faith with a commitment to do good works. It becomes a barter system in which the non-believer commits to forsake all their sins, commits to carry their cross and die daily, and commits to fully surrender and to have complete obedience in order to be saved. The gospel of Jesus Christ is no longer the free gift that God offers but is a costly gift that the unconverted sinner is unable to purchase. What sinner can commit to do things that are possible only by having the Spirit of God dwell in them? When people preach a Lordship Salvation gospel, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ; they are preaching a different gospel that frustrates the grace of God.

hi,faith without works is dead... if abraham never left ur ... if noah never built an ark... we would not have ever heard of either of them for faith is hearing the word from God to you personnally and believing it and obeying it.obedience is better than sacrifice. ephah, Jesus spoke and lived under the old covenant that was taken over when He cut the covenant on the cross for us...ever establishing a new and better covenant...paul wrote under this new and different and better covenant.jimp

MichaleoLiao,

You asked the question,..'I just want ask about true repentance as
apposed to false repentance.'

Wouldn't true repentance be,: ....We were going in one direction,
and to repent would mean to turn and go in the opposite direction in which we had been traveling.
Paul is our good example of repentance...He was going in a way/his way
that was contrary to God!.(.although he thought he was, oh so right),..But he turned and asked,/ started seeking the kingdom of God,asking the king,who is Jesus,'what would Thou have for me to DO ? ' ' ...seek ye the kingdom of God, and His righteousness....My sheep hear my Voice, and they follow Me.
' For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons / children of God '. .
* Isn't that true repentance ?..a turning ?
* What is the opposite ?

Now then:

Jesus received of the Father,..He did only what His Father wanted Him to say / DO...The Father was DOING the WORKS .
He said it is the Father that DOES the WORKS .
He wants to DO the WORKS in us,,...( not. By looking upon the law WRITTEN-OUT) ,but by His Spirit,...hearing /following...He does still
command us,...by His Spirit.

That is the faith that Abraham had,...he would hear from God,..believe / know it was God speaking to him, and obey.
Jesus received of the Father,..His Father,and did only His Father' will.

I better stop for now,
elizabeth

ephah, faith includes the action... if there is no action there is no faith.

Quote:

The Ephah, wrote;

"""Lets face it, the letters of Paul as it's translated in our english bible heavily contradicts the teachings of the Savior. How so? Can someone explain why."""

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (Col 1)
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

The Savior was born of a woman under the Law. He had to meet the repuirements of the Law to fulfill the requirements of being the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world by keeping the Law perfect and being the spotless Lamb, which no other man could do. Thus bringing Grace by faith to the salvation table. The fulfillment of the Law in us.

Paul showed the fulfillment of the law was in the completion by Christ, that in the fulness of time we who are born again are in the despensation of Grace.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Ac 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Ac 11:23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
Ac 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Ac 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

Have you heard of the dispensation of Grace:

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Without grace there is only law. There is no salvation in the Law, no life, none. With grace there is faith unto salvation, for grace and truth and faith came by Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

You cannot mix Law and Grace, if we live by the law. we die in it, if our new life is by Grace we live by Jesus Christ unto God our Father.

Pauls Gospel is not a contradiction to the Saviors teachings, but the fulfillment of The Work of the Cross. Which brings forth Christ born again in the believer and now He is our new life under Grace through Faith which is not of ourselves but of Him the is our new life in us.

The in Christ message is in the new testament just as much as The Grace message by Faith is in the new testament. Count them.

In Christ: Phillip

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O FOOLISH MAN, THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD?

What then shall we do with this verse? is it completely useless? if the disciples were preaching the same theme as the Messiah, which they were; same theme the prophets of old preached was Repentance.

No, this verse in fact is not useless, your interpretation of it is. This is evidenced by your incessant Judaizing and leading new believers here into bondage by trying to teach them to follow the law.

Your insinuation that now that we're saved you should get busy with following the law is not thinly veiled to me. You are rebuilding what Paul said he destroyed.

“We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

“But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” -Galatians 2:15-21

If this forum was built on any other software platform I would have silenced you on purpose and told everyone that I know to silence you as well.

I don't understand the moderators position in this respect, every thread that you comment on has a little bit of following the law and pushing your agenda in it. I've heard the reasoning 'well you can't silence someone in person', yes in fact I can, I would not hesitate to silence you in person. Furthermore, this forum is filled with brand new believers that honestly don't know any better than listen to your dragging them back to the law.

Are we getting to the point where we are more sensitive to the Judaizer than the new believers that he is causing to stumble? God forbid.

The Ephah wrote:
Quote; """Are you going to disregard this verse also? How do you explain this? Is it false? Is the Messiah lying? Please help me understand it."""

God forbid I should boast in my works, but I do boast of His works by His mighty power that His life in me gives me great boldness to approach the Throne of Grace and crawl up on my Daddies lap and put my head on His shoulder and with tears streaming down my face thank Him for what He has done to get me, a nothing, and this nothing is now a son of my Father and by the Love of Christ in me, I can now say Father I love you, and not be a hipocrit, that love is still growing up into the Love of Christ that is in me and some day My Father can accept my love and it be in the perfect image of Christ, and Father will say, "well done my good and faithful servant. This is my labor and striving to keep His commandment so I can say I love you and fully know what it means and fill my spirit with Joy and rest.

Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

Keep asking, that the love I give to our Father will be in the exact conformity and image of the Love the Son has for the Father and the Love the Father has for Him and us.

Who kept His commandments in the old testament. If keeping His commandments were possible without the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ in us, why must we be born again, why the Cross? It is not my works, even of repentance, it is His works in me that bring forth Keeping His Commandments and then I am truly blessed even in repentance and agreeing with God that His commandment are sweet and a great blessing to my soul. Becoming perfect in Christ; presented to the Father by the Son.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is how I keep His commandments, by His working, which worketh in me mightily. This is how keeping His commandments and the laboring and striving makes Revelations so perfect in what He says, "If you keep my commandments", how, by His working in me and my lobor and striving to obey.

In Christ: Phillip

Revelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

When I was in my 20's or 30's I also kind of ignored this verse, but later on I saw the connection to the epistle of John. It's really the last word on that matter, because when you truly mediate on the subject long enough (even years) you might realize that in the end the ones that do not do his commandments did not receive the grace to do so, and they do not practice or not have any real faith to do so. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is one of the 'finality verses' in connection with 1 John to determine if the light in a person is true light or actually darkness, that just has the appearance of light. We know that in the final (current) apostacy the followers of 'the god of this world' will persecute the true saints that are characterized by Jesus as 'the blessed that do his commandments'.

What reminds me of another forum I was a member of a few years ago. After a great start, at one time they suddenly changed their terms & conditions on signup to include the rule of "no more commandment keeping" is allowed to be discussed or promoted. Well I thought, this marks usually the start of going fullblown apostate or "out of business" in a short matter of time. And I also thought if Jesus still loves and cares for that forum owner He will let him know what He thinks of that. The last I heard was a few months back this man's animals ranch burned down, and now he just closed down his forum. I do hope he will find Jesus' heart and also His will.The blessings will follow. I don't understand why people don't believe that they that do his commandments are called Blessed, it's really as simple as that, because nobody can do it without Jesus. That's his grace in action manifested. And that's proof that someone is in subjection to God, or on the other hand is not in subjection and is still his own king of the castle that makes up their own guidelines and reality.

If someone accuses you of "commandment keeping" don't worry about it, just say thank you, because God calls you 'blessed' and only that matters, today and in hundred years from today...

Psalms 37:22  For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

This site has a host of wonderful text, audio and video sermons that talk on this very subject.
Here is one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6wALuMPy0&feature=related

hi, i alsways thought the tree of life has always been Jesus and His commandments are to love God and one another. He also is the gate to the city. He is the Way , the Door. when someone is loving God and his nieghbor it is obvious to others that if salvation was by works this person should be a candidate.but as we know salvation is not by works but by Christ ,the Way Truth and Life.jimp

hi, when we get saved its grace and faith in Christ and while we are being saved(sanctified)its grace and faith in Christ and when we shall be saved(glorification) its grace and faith in Christ...not of works ,lest any man would boast.jimp

Thank you for grasping that there is a smaller and a bigger problem. Most cannot identify the bigger problem and their own part in it , which is in summery this:

Revelation 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now some very clever theology by the name of dispensationalism tried to meet us half-way by not totally ignoring the commandments group, they instead tried ot convince us that these are describing two groups, one that keeps the commandments of God and the other that has the testimony of Jesus Christ. Well, by now we know and testify that these are deceived deceivers that are instructed by the dragon himself. And I say this after very detailed research of many years when it became evident to me where this intrusion started and how it got promoted to now influence all modern theology today.

Truth is the ones that keep the commandments of God are the ones that also have the testimony of Jesus Christ, indicated by the word "and" which is just an addition of the second statement to the first. There is one group of saints at this time, only. It will be a small group, but they are called Blessed by God.

Rev 12:17 is the last days apostasy in one verse, if we either divide the groups or deny one or the other statement entirely. This is what the deception is all about. I'm not sure if we should call it "hyper-grace" - i think it runs deeper than that. To the point that it involves almost every "normal" Christian now, a sub-belief system that honestly assumes that the commandment-keepers are the greatest enemies of God. Soon a leader will arise to blame everything that happens in the world on these people, and will openly reward everyone to deliver them to be silenced forever. And you will think you will do god a service!

Many will unknowingly become the accusers of the bretheren, not grasping their own much greater level of deception. The seed of it already is in motion. That truly qualifies as THE endtimes deception according to the Revelation given to us by Jesus via John, and not my own reasoning. We are conditioned and lined up even now to do the works of the antichrist. It is truly sad to see that everywhere. If we only would give in to the Word of God, read and study 1 John, and ask to be delivered from this world theology that is a constant enemy of the Word of Jesus.

hi, i do not understand how you can be saved and not produce good works. if you repent of your sins and are reaal soory and afraid to go to hell and come and pray the sinners prayer ,you are lost... you must come and die to the rule of your life and believe into Jesus .Jesus is the redeemer.when you are in Christ you are walking in the spirit and this produces good works.the problem is that the enemy of the best good is not the worse but the the good that folks are comfy with.jimp

What happened to Israel by their commandment keeping?

hiJesus is God amen,adam was born without a sin nature and was innocent and walked and talked to God and had one law that was very simple and could not succeed. God understands our need for amazing grace from this lesson and while on earth said that there was none good (not none perfect)amongst those who were the keepers of the law. how are you doing?do you ever covet?i am resting in the finished work of Jesus and if i go to hell resting in Jesus then so be it.jimp